Magikazam
Magikazam
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Maybe if the dev made it more easy and added thing to the basekit of killer it would be better.
Reminder that the only f2p regression perk is NoED.
The best f2p killer perk are on the nurse, not the killer you want to level up or play when you start. on the alternative, you can go get tinkerer on billy.
The game is heavily stacked against the killer when a match begins survivor got all their perk up, no one injured all pallets are up. few room for mistakes.
Survivors on the other side get EGC and hatch to skip all their objectives if they are the last ones alive. Not exactly stacked against them.
KIller can bring a single offering while survivor can bring 4. you can be send to hadonfield with the choice of where the hatch spawn with a guaranteed chance to keep their 4 BNP purple toolbox. But it ok since killer can use a purple offering to remove 2 chest right?
Starting as a new killer player is extremely frustrating and the game ain't easy on you compared to the survivor side, that why Queu are long. Im not saying game is extremely survivor sided. I'm just saying the game make it hard to convince someone to play killer
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The reward is the fact you unlocked most thing in game and got so much experience you can crush 8//10 match you go in. You get prestige skin. What do you want more?
Edits: Let not forget all limited outfit/charm that got removed in the game.
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@whycantIwin said:
Sometimes it is your entire fault that you are being "tunneled", if the killer hooks you and you get saved and you work on a gen instead of being healed or run away or hide, you already put yourself at risk, the killer isn't tunneling you, you did a mistake by working on a gen while injured, if you stay on hook to be healed, you made a mistake by staying on the hook where it's the last information the killer had of your location, if the killer constantly look around and stay near you, it's camping and you will most definitely get tunneled, but if the killer leaves and eventually comes back since he didn't find anyone during the time he was gone and find you working on a gen near your hook, it's your fault, do the right thing and get away and use the right perks if the killer is truly tunneling you.
DS still do what it should, so use it, and have teammates that will protect you for real if you are being tunneled, even if it means nobody will work on a gen, 1 unhook you with BT or the killer picks you up you ds stun and all 2-3 survivors body block them for you to run away as much as possible, things can be done against tunneling, don't complain it always happen, do something to not make it happen, even if with everything you still get tunneled, at least you got a long chase most likely and gave enough time for your team to finish the gens, if you will get tunneled, waste the killer time as much as you can and don't give up because it happens, waste their time.
And if the killer hits you right after a unhook without BT, don't blame the killer, blame the farmer.
You got it wrong, Reason why survivor get tunneled is because of their teammate. If they don't heal, bring BT, or take protection hit, there little unhooked survivor can do. Assuming the killer can quickly get to the hook you can't run to far away and your blood+noise will make you unable to hide. if you run away the scratch mark are a thing.
Sure it not the killer fault, but it not the fault of that one survivor who got saved then his team dipped away
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195621#Comment_2195621
See my point? You said the 5 nurse mains left need to enjoy their win, so she needs to be more accessible, and it's not a "hard earned" win. It's the easiest win of their life. People struggle to loop a nurse because they rarely ever go against a nurse
Why does she need to be more accessible. If you don't want to put effort in learning her just don't. I don't want to spend time learning ranged killer so I don't play them rather then complaining they are different to play.
the win is hard earned cause nurse main praticed a tons of hours to get to that point. If survivor can't adapt to nurse looping it on them.
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How about we remove hatch and key as a whole. Rn it literally the same as NoED but it on the survivor side and base hatch is base kit. Make it so EGC start when there 1 survivor remaining.
I don't see why hatch existed in the first place, there no reason to give a way to escape to the last survivors if gens ain't already done. On the other side as a killer if I suck and gens are done with all survivor alive I accept that there no way I do a 4k unless all survivor decide to bomb me while I play bubba
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2194036#Comment_2194036
That wasn't the whole point, the point is she is too good when mastered and needs to have a lower skill ceiling so she is easier to play as well as weaker when she is mastered
What wrong with hard to play but extremely strong killer? seriously let the 5 nurse main left enjoy the hard earned win they get 9 match out of 10. If it okay when SWF sweat squad do it then it should be for that one single killer.
Not every killer should be like plague where survivor get to decide when and where you use your power.
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@justbecause said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2194313#Comment_2194313
*use sprint burst gain distance to safe loops, gen pops*
*vault window use lithe gain distance to safest loop*
*use smash hit stun killer gain speed boost to get away*
The point is every exhaustion perk has it's purpose and they're not overpowered whatsoever they are strong no doubt but not overpowered we really don't need another ######### perks
You forced to use sprint burst as soon as you run, making it good in early chase but useless against ranged killer.
if there no windows to vault and there no pallet to vault lithe is useless. Also ranged killer can still use power.
If killer respect pallet you not getting anything from smash hit
Dead hard require you to be injured. If you don't get injured the whole game, sure it useless but who care? that mean the killer never hit you during a chase. You get hit? now you get a distance boost on demand that also act as iframe. issues is you can use it as a third health state if you use it to gain distance and there no counter play from the killer. all power go through iframe and miss.
With all the video I saw from pro player and game I myself did, I never saw time dead hard failed when it come to gaining distance. no matter how much you blame server for lag Dh always give you speed unless you don't use it.
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@Wrathclaw88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193980#Comment_2193980
Honestly - try lightborn - so much free hits against those pally flashys.
Honestly - try BT+DS - so much free escape against those camper.
My point with flashlight was just to prove that even if a strat/tech is annoying, they often are in game cause there actual '''non toxic'' use to them and those a important part of gameplay that you can't remove. Do I hate it when I get flashed at each pallet? Yes. Do you hate it when you get face camped? Yes. Is flashlight save and proxy camping viable strat in the game that are important to the game? Yes.
Unless they rework the whole game by changing hook we can't fix those issues
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Should we nerf survivor casue their skill cap is higher than a bit more than half of the killers while we're at it?
Reason nurse is an interesting killer is cause you can improve so much with her and that why people playing her. People who don't want to play hard killer with hight skill cap should just stick to another killer.
I don't like ranged killer? Should we make them 115% movement speed and make their ability melee OS ability now so I can enjoy them like I enjoy my M1 killer? I don't think so.
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@justbecause said:
Dead hard is like any other exhaustion perk (well 80% of them) to give you speed boost and that's it
Except other can't be user whenever you want and got real requirement to be used.
Sprintburst give you lots of distance but make you waste time traveling anywhere if you want to keep it.
Lithe give you distance but force you to the next loop. If Lithe is up and you start running killer on a normal pallet loop, you either use it and go around or waste it around that pallet.
DH require you to be injured... That will always happen in a chase at some point. And you can use it anywhere when ever you want. The downside being you can't use it while you don't need it.
That like saying ''Ruin is not that strong when you think about it. It don't regress gens if there no more gens that some serious downside''
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193921#Comment_2193921
Dude, I asked the killer afterwards,,, and I cant remember what rank he was but, it was a red rank killer main and he said he camps because likes to "fw people". So he was camping and I guess he didn't care what points he either did not get or lost. I am just saying there has got to be a better way than just fw'ing with people, I don't think that is too controversial?
Camping can still be used a strat too. If I see people hiding near the hook you think I will leave?
Sure it can be used to just be annoying but lots of thing have the same issues.
Should we remove Flashlight cause some people use it to blind you each time they pallet stun you? It useless and make them lose time and it just to mess with the killer eyes. Sure Flashlight save is a strat but who care. It ain't fun being blinded with no counterplay each time I break a single pallet.
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@Zixology said:
This is holding the game hostage. But hardly anyone here will tell you that because "killer good. survivor bad"
If there 4 survivor and they can't work on 3 gens while killer can only chase 1 or 2 survivor away from a gen at once. combine that with the fact it easy to stop regression and gen speed is kinda fast it look like the issue is not the killer here.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193916#Comment_2193916
Well then you tell me, last night a game a Dwight got hooked 30 secs into the game with not one gen done and Bubba stood right by him three inches apart so no survivor could not even get in between them until he struggled then died and moved on to the next one. If that is not camping then my definition needs to be seriously updated.
I will assume that story didn't happened with a rank 1 bubba since emblem system make it literally impossible to rank up face camping. no matter how much you argue that just how the game work. you can 4k face camping you still at risk of a depip.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193858#Comment_2193858
Sorry, you are just wrong and it should not matter what rank they are,,, if they are doing it from the jump thats wrong but okay.
Except im not. if you would have tried face camping a single time you would see it sink your bp and emblems a tons. If someone is camping you as a rank 1 chance are you don't know what camping mean.
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@sesawyer3127 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192425#Comment_2192425
I would have to ask the question of why then do ALL Bubba's do it from the start? I don't know why just Bubba's but, in almost every single game Bubba killer mains camp and tunnel from the get up in every match?? There is no reason to do it from the start yet these players do it without fail. Had three matches last night with Bubba's and two out of the three did it from the jump?? I don't even see the reason for doing it during the EGC because you should have been better during the game and pressure gens/players thereby making tunneling/camping obsolete. But no one wants to acknowledge that,,, or make believe the mythical unicorn of the SWF team makes you do it. The fall back argument is always "well, camping and tunneling are valid strategies" lol. So why bother arguing with those people, it will never change.
Im sure rank 1 Bubba don't camp like you pretend they do, emblems system wouldn't let them get that far. Reason why Bubba is used a lot in those scenario is cause he can punish survivor bombing the hook.
That being said if someone one go in game with the intention to face camp he will probably use bubba cause of that.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193014#Comment_2193014
Again just becuase your not a team does not mean you can't help each other you have the same goal so often times working together is the best play. Like when large competing companies lobby the government together for a new law or regulation
I disagree. this aint real life and politic this is a game. It balanced around the fact survivor are a team. You can't have the best of both world where survivor can solo the killer with their base tool kit but if they get in a bad situation they decide to get teammate to help them.
If you want to play with no teammate go play killer. No matter how hard you try to twist it. The game is a 4v1.
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The real issue with BT is that you can force a body block so you can punish the killer for trying to not tunnel and I think that stupid
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192968#Comment_2192968
Survivors aren't a team, same goals and objectives yes but just becuse you both want thr same thing doesn't mean your going to work together. And If you play with others outside a swf you'll find that's pretty evident
If you were awarded points based on the number if survivors who rscspe then you could argur it's a team game but as it currently is, it's not.
Its no more a team game than Microsofts bing and Googles search engines are on a team, sure they both try and do the same thing, they both even work together from time to time, but if Google earns a billion dollar contract Microsoft doest get to call that a win, just like the survivors goal is to escape full stop. If he doesn't escape he lost.
Alright then if survivors aint a team let remove the ability to unhook and heal each other. Now people die on first hook and if you get hit that permanent.
You play as a 4 man team then you live with the downside of it.You want to play as an individual where only your skill and perk matter? go play killer.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192821#Comment_2192821
Yah which is kind of the point your advice for the actual survivor being camped is........ what die?
Yes. that suck but that how you counter camping. That like facing survivor who pre-drop each pallet and blind you on non mind-game pallet. you either bring lightborn or you take the blind each time or you chase someone else. that suck but that how you deal with them
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@mouse0270 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191171#Comment_2191171
But why do you need so much gen regression in the game? For example, to help prove my point this morning. I played Demodoggy. I've played 9 rounds so far. My build is BBQ, STBFL, Corrupt and Ruin. I usually run BBQ, STBFL, Corrupt and StarStruck. However, I am running ruin and corrupt together because corrupt basically tells me when 2 minutes in the game has passed.
In 9 of those rounds ruin was cleansed before corrupt ran out twice. In both instances there was a pink map brought. I can't say if the map user is the one who cleansed ruin or not, Those are just the observations I've made this morning. That means out of 9 rounds ruin lasted more than 2 minutes in 7. As a side note I 4k'ed every game I played this morning so far. Though to be fair, I usually 4k a good 80-90% of my games.
EDIT: At 22 games with 5 games where ruin was cleansed before corrupt ended... So in about 22% of my games... Thats still 78% of games where ruin lasted more than two minutes.
Now this is way to low of a sample size to draw an accurate representation of how quickly ruin is cleansed, however it is slowly proving my point. Ruin last much longer then people expect in most games. We as human beings tend to focus and remember the negative impacts. So if you play 30 games and ruin got cleansed in the first 2 minutes of the match 5 times... You'll most likely remember those games most often and not the ones where ruined helped you get a 4k at 4 gens.
So I pose this question to you... What do you want the devs to do? Remove hex perks and let them last 100% of the game... Because ######### NO... I would just never play survivor again if someone could have ruin always up all the time. Do you want them to create better spawns? Because thats what they have done with a lot of the new maps and some of the map reworks (not all, some are still pretty bad). Even if they do this, its only a temporary solution. Better totem spawns only last until players learn totem spawn locations, which takes me maybe 4-5 games to do.
First, We need ''so much gen regression'' cause our base regression is extremely trash and require us to lose pressure while survivor can stop it so fast with no effort or risk. Our perk (except ruin) requires us to work to get a result from them. That not bad in itself until you realize survivors on the other hand don't have that drawback when they use gen speed/exhaustion perk.
Take DH as an example. it not bad when you use it to dodge a hit. that up for the killer to try and bait it and that fine. But when you use it to gain distance to make it to the next loop, that just a free 15 second of chase at worst.
So when the game start, survivor got all pallets up, easy to use perk that can get free time and no pressure from the killer.
We can't make gen take longer to complete, that make face camping stronger. so we either need to nerf survivor perk like DH to put some requirement that matter or you give killer better base regression.
It just weird how much survivor got control over the game when the killer is the power role.
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@sulaiman said:
What i would do is make spreading out the hooks among the survivors more attractive.
The thing at the moment is, getting rid of 1 survivor is reducing the "survivor power" by 25%, from 100% to 75%, or for this example, from 400% to 300%.
But what if the survivor power wouldnt go from 100 to zero in one go? Like giving a survivor a debuff for being hooked, reducing his gen efficency by 30%, after the second an additional 15%, but if he dies, each survivor alive gets a boost.
This way, it would be way better to hook the next survivor than just tunneling or camping the one you already got.
Action times might have to be adjusted, since its not about boosting survivors overall, but to give an incentive to spread out the damage. However, every hook would turn the table toward the killer anyway, but that would be my basic idea. You can still tunnel or camp if you like to, the reward is just not that great as it is at the moment.
Why would alive survivor get a boost when their ally die? That just sound like a nerf to killer.
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@wxnickxw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192730#Comment_2192730
Then maybe they should stop saying just work on gens when your being camped
Stop being stupid. you know well that when we say that we mean the other 3 survivors.
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@SunderMun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191190#Comment_2191190
I love people that do this: they complain about BT, but then defend their actions with 'should have used BT' when the simple truth is that the latest change caused BT to lose its functionality anyway lmao
The reason people complain about bt is because the person who get off the hook can use it to body block the killer, And the only way for the killer to counter that is wait out the full 15 sec and then hit you. And the that mean the killer tunneling you. The reason we complain is because a perk designed to give you a protection agains tunneling acctualy punish the killer for trying to not tunnel you. Would just be fine if they kept BT as it is but also disable collision with the killer when you affected by it.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191020#Comment_2191020
They aren't grossly exaggerating. I play a lot of survivor myself and see it happen all the time.
Killers have gotten used to snowballing off hook rescues. And I can see why. It's pretty effective against solo queue players who have a much harder time coordinating plays.
that the survivor fault not body blocking or using BT, not only that you should have you exhaustion perk once you get saved. unless you teammate saved you way to early and that on them. If you get camped y our team should be doing gens instead of all rushing to the hook against that bubba.
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@mouse0270 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190875#Comment_2190875
I am not missing the point... Totems are RNG and they are not always trash.
Hex's are super strong perks, every single one of them except maybe 3rd seal unless you know everyone is solo.
There are less powerful perks, that have less RNG.
You can choose to run strong RNG perks, or weaker consistent perks. I choose to run the weaker consistent perks. You choose to run more RNG based perks. It's a choice you made, that you have to live with.
The thing is survivors dont have to risk anything when they bring strong perk. If they all bring dead hard there ain't much the killer can do to stop that. Not only that, people bring ruin so much because base regression is extremely trash. it take as much time to regress one gen from 99% to 0% than it take survivors to do 5 other gens from 0%. it take 2 second to kick a gen yet survivor can tap it for 1/60 of a sec and stop the whole regression.
on the other side survivor can gen rush and there no counter to that, and by Gen rush I mean being extremely optimal with their objectives. like all working on different gens. go for rescue only when survivore are close to lose hook stage. Only heal if you going to be chase/save someone.
I just don't see why killer who has less perk slot to use are the one who need to risk those when on the other side we got perks that are powerful and rarely have drawback.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2187886#Comment_2187886
You do realize this isn’t fair when some killers do camp out of refusing to improve how to play the game right?
Like, I get OP isn’t very educated on the changes but lets not pretend killers are always camping because it’s a “strat”.
IF a killer face camp like that you should be doing gens. There I fixed the issue without buffing or using any perk.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2175488#Comment_2175488
I will not lie. When my friends online i am playing with them. Because i know when i looping killer, they doing gens. And i know they will not leave me to die on hook. Game is more easy and also more fun. And i dont think that is unfair for killers because we are not using voice chat. Just 4 good survivors playing together and everyone knows what have to do.
''Game is easier and also more fun. And I don't think that is unfair for killers''
If the game is easier for you it becomes harder for the killer. no matter how you look at it.
the real issue here is that compared to Solo, you basically get all survivor aura reading perk base kit as SWF. The game and perk are balanced around the fact survivors lack communication and survivor being unable to rely to much on each other at the same time.
Look at Ds for example. As much as people say it an anti-tunnel perk. its real usefulness is that when you play solo you will get unhook by a low IQ teammate without BT went the killer is near. The correct thing would be for the saver to body block but since he can just run, They made ds so it fair for you who just gonna get tunnel cause of a teammate.
On the killer side, you get punished cause you exploited the opponent team's weakness and tried to use their mistake to your advantage. sure it unfun to tunnel someone but if you got unhooked and no one trying to go for body block you should pay the price for it.
Perks make the game EZ to play on Solo Q for survivors. ani technique the killer use that survivor complain about (tunnel, camp, slug) can be countered by perks. so just use them.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2175759#Comment_2175759
Rank 1 both sides since 2017 and posted Rank 1 survivor/killer clips on this forums for as long as I'm using the forums.
But clearly I have no idea what I'm talking about because my opinion is not the same as your opinion.
It more about the argument you use than the opinion.
Even if you claim you got 5k+ hours if you go around saying 4 regression perk build are op you just sound like an angry rank 16 survivor who got stomped by a face camping freddy.
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@Yamaoka said:
You know what else doesn't take skill ?
Killing 4 solos who derp around all game. Even my gf (who doesn't play killer) has won matches on my Rank 1 profile - as Legion.
Again: A person who does NOT play killer AT ALL (unless you count like 2 matches per YEAR) has won at rank 1.
On top of that I see meta perk killers tunneling, (proxy) camping and slugging against obvious solos.
You think that takes skill? Running 4 slowdown perks just so you have enough time to tunnel/(proxy camp/slug a bunch of 100 hour survivors using a killer anyone can play perfectly first try (i.e. Freddy)?
At this point I am convinced most red rank killers are just as bad as most red rank survivors but the only time they get a clue on how bad they are is when they face 4 survivors that know that they are doing.
Long story short: If you can't beat survivors who are actually playing the game instead of sitting in a bush while you're tunneling/camping/slugging their teammates out of the match then clearly you are not ready for decent survivors.
''Killing 4 solos who derp around all game. Even my gf (who doesn't play killer) has won matches on my Rank 1 profile - as Legion.''
it becomes rarer and rarer to face survivors who derp around all game as you rank up. I rarely face some past purple rank tbh. and maybe you gf just got lucky with matchmaking, that can happen.''
''Again: A person who does NOT play killer AT ALL (unless you count like 2 matches per YEAR) has won at rank 1.''
And what rank were the survivor? matchmaking rn ain't that great and we often end up in rainbow lobby. I doubt you gf faced 4 ranks 1 survivor who can't win against a legion who never plays the killer. that just sounds like a big lie.
''On top of that, I see meta perk killers tunneling, (proxy) camping and slugging against obvious solos.''
Yea cause tunneling, proxy camping, and slugging are killer base kit tech? If you just go for 12 hooks game as killer you won't pass rank 12. That like complaining about survivor going for palet stun save and protection hit even if the killer is obviously bad. Maybe you should play some game out of the brown rank.
''You think that takes skill? Running 4 slowdown perks just so you have enough time to tunnel/(proxy camp/slug a bunch of 100 hour survivors using a killer anyone can play perfectly first try (i.e. Freddy)?''
if you run 4 slowdown perks you got a bad build. Slowdown perk except ruin got a requirement to activate and you won't do that by camping. not only that they require you to kick gens and don't stack. That like saying Survivors are op cause they can bring 4 exhaustion perks and sneak around doing gens only all game. And I think we both agree that a survivor doing that is wasting 3 perks. Freedy got nerf too. get over it.
''At this point, I am convinced most red rank killers are just as bad as most red rank survivors but the only time they get a clue on how bad they are is when they face 4 survivors that know that they are doing.''
It more of an issue that killer got a bigger learning curve than the killer and that survivor got too many advantages in the 1v1 with a perk like dead hard.
you got 5 gens that can be completed in 80 sec each. 4 survivors to complete them. 1 Killer who needs to do 12 hook stage. And what does the killer has a base kit over these 4 survivors? around 15% more movement speed, M1, and a power. Most killer action take lots of commitment for bad reward. take base regression. you take 2 sec to kick a generator that now slowly regress. if you don't make sure no survivors are around they can press m1 for 1/60th of a sec to stop regression.
Tbh I just think you never played killer past green rank.
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@MadLordJack said:
If you were to only go against unco-ordinated teams you'd quickly r alise why SWF and Comms is a good thing.
That, or you're the kind of person that doesn't get bored of playing the same game over and over again on the easiest difficulty. Which is okay for single player titles, but not so much multiplayer ones.
If you were to only go against perk less rank 20 trappers you'd quickly realize why 50k hours nurse and Spirit is a good thing.
That or you the kind of person that doesn't get bored of playing the same game over and over again on the easiest difficulty that SWF provides
Killer don't get to choose what kind of match they get in, SWF get to make it hard for killer each single game they go in. Any good game dev would have realised that long ago, ESPECIALLY in a game like this one where lack of communication is supposed to be the survivor team weakness
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I think the game is survivor-sided simply because of how many tools they can bring in a single game and how those tools are balanced.
many perks exist simply cause you can end up with a bad teammate in Solo Q. Take DS for example. As much as people call it an anti-tunnel perk. it simply a perk that exists cause you will end up with some low IQ teammate who will unhook you without BT when the killer is near. So now what happened is that because we don't want to make tunnel annoying to play against, Since when it happened it mostly will be because your teammate played badly. We make it so the killer is punished for profiting off a survivor's mistake.
Even if I'm a killer main, I know it annoying to die cause of a teammate, it happened to me a lot the few times I played Survivor But I still think that since you play in a team you should get the downside of being in one.
Another thing is how they made the f2p perk kit better for survivors than for killers. As a survivor, you can run BT, Kindred, and sprint burst +1 perk and you got yourself a decent solo Q build. It could be better but it got all the important stuff. Now killer on the other side got some awful stuff and no f2p regression perk.
Then there SWF. even if we ignore the tryhard one. just playing with 3 other people using basic communication give you tons of advantage. you can tell at any time what people are doing, who the killer after, who can go for a save, is the killer camping or not. Who's the killer and what addon he brought. Just that is tons of free perks. not only you get all of these for free. Compare that to a Solo Q game where if you don't bring kindred you risk your team wasting info and time each time someone gets hooked.
My last point about the risk-reward of basic action. Overall, Survivor action takes no commitment and can be interrupted at any time. it takes a few seconds for the killer to kick off a gens, he risks losing distance and field of view when he does so. On the other hand, survivors can deny this commitment of the killer in 1/60th of a second by taping gens. Then you got unhooking. you can fake it for some reason if the killer is nearby enough to grab you, yet the killer can't do the same if he picks up someone and there somebody to drop a pallet or flashlight him, if the killer press the spacebar he becomes vulnerable and there nothing he can do about it.
Oh, and survivors also have hatch every game. it a small thing but it kinda an equivalent of NOED for a survivor base kit.
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@konchok said:
I've thought about this a bit and the only way that I see tunneling going away is if trying to go after just one survivor and ignoring the rest was a guaranteed way to lose.
The way I could see it working is to rework how generators work. If I was a balancing dev this is what I would do. (This is a bulk suggestion meaning that it would all have to go in, you can't cherry pick the parts you want or don't want)
- Decrease the amount of time it takes to complete a generator by 10 seconds.
- Remove all generator regression perks
- Make corrupt intervention base kit
- Make Thanatophobia base kit, increase Survivors' Repairing speed penalty to 10 percent for each person injured.(and remove effects on other actions, such as cleansing /sabo)
- Kicking a generator causes an automatic 5 percent regression on that generator
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What's the reasoning behind these changes. Basically this, with these changes. If you camp or tunnel the generators will get done so quickly that'll it'll be a guaranteed loss. It becomes much more important to spread damage as 3 healthy survivors will blow away generators so quickly that tunneling/ camping will cost you the game. Inversely if you do spread damage than you'll have more time to get generators done and as killer you can run chase perks instead of generator regression perks. Make the game more chase focused and less focused on tunneling/camping.
You already lose and get punish by decent survivors if you camp. If you get tunnel maybe you should bring ds or hope any other decent survivor got BT ( a meta perk and must have in solo play imo) you can also body block the killer and take a hit when you unhook someone. Survivors got tons of ways to counter tunnel yet they still complain.
if you get camped it means people get free time to gen rush.
you don't need to rework the whole gen speed thing for that.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2163692#Comment_2163692
Getting a 2k is good though? Killers shouldn’t get 3 or 4 kills all the time. If you kill 2 red rank survivors, that’s a solid result.
That what the dev said they want to balance the game around. but the ranking system require you to basically get 3k or 4k or at worst a 2k with the other two being on last hook. Due to how the game balanced game often end with 1l or 3k/4k.
remember that most meta perk for killer are locked behind a paywall you got no f2p base/unlockable slowdown perk. Survivor on the other hand can build up a decent build with f2p. You can get kindred/BT/Sprintburst without paying. Sure not the best build but you got the ''essential'' part of one.
Combine that with the game being slightly survivor sided mostly due to key still not being nerf like mori and hatch acting like a basekit NOED for survivors. But I think we can agree this small gap don't matter when it come to skilled survivor vs skilled killer
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@BrokenSouI said:
I'm not gonna lie...I stopped reading because this is TLDR..But if it WASNT mentioned in the patch notes...Does that NOT sound like a bug to you....?
it was in PTR so i doubt it a bug since many people noticed it.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
My advice would be to switch over to survivor for a while, seeing the other perspective really helps when playing the other side. This isn’t just a killer sided issue, it’s very easy to rank up as survivor too and get destroyed by killers with thousands of hours.
One of my first red rank games as survivor was against Otzdarva, safe to say it didn’t go well for our solo queue team lol.
I did play both side and the issue is kinda ez to see. It easy to rank up as survivor until purple rank. so what happened is that most survivor are in purple/red rank. Killer past rank 15 get match with these survivor due to the lack of low ranked one. Meaning you can either get these baby survivor who got carried by the ranking system or the guys with 3000+ hours. It also when killer stop noob stomping since survivor start to know how to focus on gens and run basic loops you need extremely good knowledge as killer at that point to do better than 2k unless you run good addons or survivor screw up badly. Even if you still bad as survivor 3 other random people can carry you.
so tldr killer got a worst time progressing ''mid game/rank'' then survivor due to survivor being in a team.
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The skill learning curve aint that bad, some killer aside, other than that, it mostly knowledge about looping and chase.
Take a M1 killer and perkless survivor for example. Once you learn the easy skillcheck, the game just about pressing M1 near gens then gate, what hard is looping killer and that just knowledge, you can't do some hyper-cool skill trick to get speed, you just need to mindgame each other
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@Eve13 said:
There you are the weekend times not online and here it really goes off, I hope I have read and understood everything, but also have a few comments:
If you bring one more box into the game, the timer of the RBT increases moderately, so it decimates the success a little that the purple addon brings you, which shortens the timer very much, unless you have bad luck as a survivor and really have to run all boxes.
Which brings us to the survivor gameplay: You see someone get an RBT open and then finish off your gen right away? Then it's your fault if that someone comes under stress and none of the really not good addons from the pig.
But it's that survivor genrush mentality that makes it easier for pig. Even though I have to say that I don't get many kills from the RBT - that's not what they're for, they're just there to buy time and if the survivor prefers to sit down with a trap on a gen and pull it off, then it's his problem and not the killer's.
I see this myself as a survivor again and again: Yes, there are annoying and strangely playing killers - here as an example the pig that chases me with a RBT, preferably already one activated. That makes no sense, I'm already busy and if you're a sensible pig, you know that. Then you find someone who just has the time for generators.
But as a killer it's exactly the same: survivor stands in front of me at the box with not activated trap - instead of hiding. Ideally, even his teammate led me right past him. Then I hope for you that you have DS with you, otherwise you're at least lying on the ground.
On one hand players don't seem to take Piggy seriously as a killer because it's too weak, one of the bad killers etc - but then there are these posts where yes she is so unfair? That doesn't make sense to me.
''On one hand players don't seem to take Piggy seriously as a killer because it's too weak, one of the bad killers etc - but then there are these posts where yes she is so unfair? That doesn't make sense to me. ''
Pig is a noob crusher that why. It like the pre rework Freddy, it strong against people who use the ''usual'' strat to counter M1 killer, it the same issue people have with Ranged killer, bad survivor complain that they are strong in chase. Strong survivor know that you need to make them waste time aiming at you near wall and cover rather than looping them like other killer.
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TBH my solution is to remove the toolbox, their the only thing bad about gen speed rn, They don't last long but they last for the first few gens when the killer has a bad time doing map pressure since well, it the start of the match and everyone is alive. Some perks also boost gens speed but those actually have a cost or requirement and they ain't a simple free repair speed boost.
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You just have to accept there no way they will stop people playing with friends in a team-based game. also maybe like 1/12 4man swf group are sweaty one.
It just that we killers always get the short stick when it comes to survivor fun vs killer fun. but for once can we agree that letting friends play together is a good trade-off? If anything they should just realize their mistake and make communication baseline for survivors while they buff the killer to compensate.
It not the best solution, but that the only one that can make both sides happy.
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@Zaytex said:
Sadly, this does happen on large maps and you shouldn't blame yourself, it's the game's fault.
HOWEVER, you do have the option to bring perks like corrupt intervention which prevent those scenarios from happen, no wonder its one of the best killer perks right now.
Thing is, Corrupt intervention viability depends on what killer you play. Sure it always good to have it if you have nothing better. But it loses lots of its usefulness if you play killer that can travel around with ease, it good for M1 killer and the best slowdown for the setup killer.
I just think the gens speed problem is with addons and perk. Normal gen speed is fine and only get strong if all survivor works on a single generator, but with the drawback that the killer will snowball if he finds them. With toolbox, addons, and perk it another story. They balanced them so they work as a short burst that won't last the whole match. The problem is you will use that burst when the match start, Aka when the killer cant put pressure yet. Survivors are extremely strong early game so having any kind of bonus that makes them stronger during the early game is just stupid in my opinion. It's something the killer can't really counter, while slowdown perk all have a glaring weakness
Corrupt become a useless perk 2 min in the match.
Pop force you to kick a generator while it is active, it may not sound bad, but that means you need to kick gen that is worked on or one that was left off and nearly completed. In both cases, it cost lots of time you could spend on a chase.
Thrilling Tremors is so bad at slowdown that it best used as an alternative to BBQ
Dying Light makes gen go slower when you don't need slowdown anymore.
Huntress Lullaby Has the weakness of being a hex perk and we need to assume people still miss skill check
Surge Is so RNG dependant it a joke at this point.
Meanwhile, any toolbox is some free second you can take off the 400 it takes to repair all five gens. Combine that with the fact you will have 3 survivors working on different gens till you down the first guys and add in the fact that gen regression is four-time slower than working on gen + it can be interrupted.
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I just think he needs a rework. the stalk and tier up is outdated as a power since we got Oni and Ghost face who get similar things, but better.
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it just sounds like an easy mode that is fun for survivors but that is boring and harder for killer.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2018250#Comment_2018250
For the record this is about the tempered timer + extra box not her default RBT's.
my whole point is that addon combo needs to be addressed.
Or survivors could adapt if they don't want to risk someone getting 4 or 5 boxes. It's almost like playing in a team also has drawbacks....
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2017270#Comment_2017270
"Pigs rarely tunnel people with traps on."
You can I have VERY different experiences.
Pigs SHOULDN'T tunnel people with traps on, but I find they almost always do.
I mean, if the pig going to waste her time on a single survivor that just good new for all the 3 other survivor who get more time to focus on gen. Focusing on a single person Mean less people need to heal, so less pressure
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Except the Emblem system wants us to be as close as possible to 4k to rank up.
Also, the game work on the basis that survivors are stronger early and get weaker as they get killed. So saying '' you should expect a 2k most game'' is saying we should balance the game around the fact Survivors will always start at their best, But killer shouldn't be able to reach their best (3k) unless something goes wrongs.
going by the 2k rules, you just promoting a game where the normal state of a thing is that killer need to go full sweaty hard mode to get that first kill so they can start to relax a bit VS survivor who will rarely be on a point where half their teams are dead and they need to go sweaty mode to get the missing gens done. It just is way more fun to win as the two last survivors than it is to win, but you only killed half the survivors.
We already got the hatch that acts as a free key for the last survivors. Just imagine if the game went ''oh all 5 gens are complete, here base kit old green mori+ base kit NoeD so you can get a free kill if you manage to down someone''
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@Timo__R said:
killer want survivor to be nerfed (even if justified)
this in turn makes playing not in SWF even Harder and even more unbalanced for them, so in the end solo player either quit the game or become part of a SWF.
And some killer are seriously wondering why there so many SWF or even Some Toxic SWF.
Solo Survivor have to deal with other survivor ( who are mostly useless) Killer ( who can easily ruin the experience for a person when they get mad) and Devs ( who keeps nerfing solo survivors even more than SWF with their changes).
So if some of them get in a SWF group and can get "revenge" for everything they had to deal with up to this point ofc they would do this because this would just be the justice they deserve.
The main issue is that survivors are hard to balance in a fun way. The survivors are in a team of 4 and have the same objectives so they win or fail as a team. If a survivor gets caught early on a loop, he cost the whole team some extra time on gen and now you need 1 other guy to save him. On the other hand, he could also have won 1 or 2 gen if he was a god looper.
Then we got the issue that sometimes people are bad and make poor decisions.
it happened to all of us, a situation where Survivor A unhooked Survivor B when the killer was nearby so Survivor B gets hooked again. And that here that the issues start.
On one hand, you got the killer who kinda deserves that hook, Survivor A did a bad move, and there no reason for the Killer to not capitalize on that, it the killer job.
On the other hand, the whole survivor team just took an L because of a single person, and Survivor B just got put in a boring and unfun situation because of the mistake of a teammate.
So now you have to balance perks around those two sides. and one side will always get the short stick, and sadly use to how the game works, it has to be the killer most of the time.
Take BT for an example. On paper it looks good, it makes it so the killer can't just tunnel you if he happens to patrol nearby when the save happens, that fine. But then it opens tons of loopholes like the fact you can also use it to make an unsafe hook way safer than it should be and the unhooked person can also body block the killer so he can't even go for the unhooker on an unsafe hook.
Then add in the fact that SWF can and probably will abuse those things. They don't need to be sweaty if they know BT can be used that way they will try it out, it not even that hard.
So we end up having survivors who get their weakness ''soft patched'' in a way that makes the killer objective harder since he can't profit as much from survivor's mistake, for the sake of said survivors still having fun if their teammates are braindead.
On the other hand, the main survivor objective can't be easier. Go sleep on gen and press M1. Unless you under purple rank I doubt that no matter how bad your teammate are they can hit 90% of the skill checks.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015819#Comment_2015819
it's unreasonable because you have no control over the other players actions and good luck convincing the player base to not finish gens along with them remembering the advice in the first place.
take plague obviously don't cleanse but whatda people do especially solo's?
It still sounds like it survivor problem too. Survivor's advantages over the killer is that their's 4 of them and that they work as a team. You just asking to have all the advantages ( in this case, working on the same objectives.) but not the disadvantage (being drag down by other mistakes)
That just how any team game work, Sure DbD lacks an in-game communication system, but in this case, the hub gives them all the information they need. the hub tells them you have a time bomb on you. If they decide to ignore it they just took a bet for the team, faster gen for the potential cost of a life.
When you think about it, the core gameplay for survivor works like that. If you get a teammate who's bad at chase, he just won't buy you as much time as a decent survivor would, The only way to help him buy more time is for someone else in the team going for a body block or trying to trick the killer into chasing them. In both cases that cost gen progress since you get 2 people off gen. At the same time, if someone is a god at looping killer and he buys you time to do 2 gens, your whole team get the benefit.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1250131#Comment_1250131
-Yes, it's designed in such a way that there's perks for people to gain information that they wouldn't otherwise have if they used comms. Which they can easily use. Once again, they can get on some comms if they want at any time, so I still don't understand your point there. People on comms have an advantage, simple as that.
-You're right, it's an asymmetrical game, which means that you, as a killer, ideally have the power of the other 4, and can control the game yourself. How you do that is on you. Sure, you can't have an advantage of being on comms, but when you're somebody who can just remove a player from the game, I don't think it's a huge deal.
-Killers can still have fun against SWF players. You can personally feel that they're unfun but that doesn't mean inherently that somebody can't have fun against a SWF.
I don't want to directly compare League and DbD directly because it's like apples and oranges, but my point bringing those up is that it's been allowed in several different games throughout history and it's never been a problem. Just because people are on comms doesn't mean it's impossible to beat them, it just means that you have to work harder. If you don't think that's fun, then maybe you don't belong playing with all the people that try their hardest to win. Not saying that as an insult -- it's okay to be a more casual player. I just don't think just because you don't think it's fun, that means it's not fun.
Also, if you're putting in 5k hours just to learn Nurse then you probably just aren't that good at her. She's not that difficult to pick up.
The point
You
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1250137#Comment_1250137
I can name 3 people off of the top of my head that agree 100%. Disagreeing with the truth and hiding behind stats is exactly what killers criticize survivors for.
No, We complain that survivor use only half the stats and only analyse half of it. They often mention the kill rate of killers, ignoring that a a Kill can range from a looper god getting outplayed to an afk potatoes who died on first hook. And that not even mentioning the mori. Then they also ignore the fact that Nurse who a top tier got the second worst kill rate.
I think red rank having Ruin in 80% of red rank game and 45% of the entire player base games. I think we can safely assume it was the best option if around half the entire player base game had it. And the entire playerbase games counts the game with killer who did'nt even have the perk. Add to the fact Red rank killer, who got the most experiance, used it the most.
There a reason no one use dying light
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@AnnoyedAtTheGame said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1247261#Comment_1247261
Even with a 2 man swf group they can still be over powering and easily win a game.
I only thing SWF can become a real problem when there 3 of them in tearm of overpowering, sure 2 people sharing info they should'nt have is an issue, but having only half the team knowing what they do mean the other half will have 0 idea what they doing and that just create bad play,
And 2 survivor by themself wont be enought to stop the killer if the other 2 who wont coordinate die.
With 3 people you can start stomping killer too. you can survive the fact the fourth survivor is a potatoes.