Magikazam
Magikazam
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1250071#Comment_1250071
Ruin wasn't the best slowdown option. It was a potato masher.
Ruin was used in 80% red rank game according to official data.
Saying Ruin wasn't the best slowdown option is like saying DS ain't the best anti tunnel option. No one gonna believe you.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249347#Comment_1249347
No, I didn't miss the point. I just disagree that the information is just given to you in League but not in DbD.
In DbD plenty of information is given, as I stated in my previous comment. I won't repeat it, you can go read what I said about watching for crows and whatnot. The fact is, there's still going to be certain things that somebody doesn't know because they aren't paying attention and comms helps with that if you bother to group and use it. Even then, there's always going to be information you aren't given. In League, it would be mostly because of the Fog of War, since it hides peoples' items they purchased until you see them again and all that stuff. In DbD, it would come from the killer not being around survivors. You can bring up OoO but as far as I'm concerned, if you're that worried about it you should be playing a stealtyh killer at that point, or just tunnel the heck out of the OoO so the team doesn't get any more information off them. On top of that, there's just things that you can do to exploit SWFs, such as the fact that they're overly altruistic for each other.
As a killer, you can't expect them to outright ban all comms, because as I said comms have been around forever in gaming and it's always given an advantage. It's just another one of those things you have to work around, like one of those annoying "second chance" perks killers hate so much. It's completely allowed, even if you think it's cheap. If you feel like it's just too ridiculously unfair, then feel free to offer up tweaks to the system. But the answer isn't just "ban comms because it makes the game too hard for me." That sounds as ridiculous to me as the people that are whining "remove NoED because I keep getting hit by it." As survivor, you can't really be mad about being at a disadvantage either because you're choosing not to group up. It's just the reality of things: comms are pretty much always available and developers don't seem to have a problem with it, likely because anybody can join in if they'd like. All of those problems that you mention about Survivor A seeing a totem for .5 seconds and Survivor B not knowing or whatever, the only thing I have to say to those is "if you have a problem with not having comms, then it's just a click of a button away from joining."
Also, just because a game is "competitive" doesn't automatically mean "information is automatically there for the whole team." Not that all competitive games aren't like that, but just because something is "competitive" doesn't mean they are like that. So I still don't see what your whole point is about the other games being "competitive." That doesn't change the fact that there's always information you're not going to know in both games, and that if you are on comms, the information you do know will be relayed much more quickly.
''No, I didn't miss the point. I just disagree that the information is just given to you in League but not in DbD.''
Who care if you disagree, it just a fact, the game litteraly designed that way. there litteraly in game perk that are here for that.
Kindred exist for the simple fact that there no other way to communicate where each other are and if the killer is hiding near hook whitout coms. if it would be ''informaiton everyone had'' the perk would'nt exist cause survivor would have it in their basekit.
OoO is balanced around the fact only the survivor running it have the information and can't share that information. It litteraly the best tools on coms. there a reason tryhard SWF on coms abuse this perk and this is a know issue. if the information was like you think it was 4 randoms monkey could abuse it as well without coms...but they virtually can't cause there no in game way to say ''Yo the killer is hag and she putting trap on the other side of the map'' Only you will know. You don't have the tool to share this information and it only visible to you.
''Also, just because a game is "competitive" doesn't automatically mean "information is automatically there for the whole team''
I aggree, it just that the g ame you named were all similar competittive team vs team game so I had no better naming for them.
''As a killer, you can't expect them to outright ban all comms, because as I said comms have been around forever in gaming and it's always given an advantage.''
Except this is an assemitrical game. both team don't have the same tool. it not like League.
Yes, In league, being on coms is better, it balanced by the fact the other side can also be coms.
This can't be done in DbD. Information is a hudge point in the game and survivor aren't suposed to share it so easily. Killer can't go on coms, they have no similar tools to help them.
Can a Killer beat coordinated SWF? yes, are they fun to face? Not at all. Look at any killer main stream or video, the thing they all dislike to face are coordinated SWF. they aint fun to face, you only get the feeling you make trice as much effort as they do to win and they still are a challenge for you. And at the end when you win, It don't feel fun. You know they had to put way less time and skill than you and the game was still close to be won by them.
It the reason people rarely play nurse, Yes she can totally deny survivor of any thing they can do, put putting 5000+ hours on her only just to do that don't feel that rewarding when you still can do 4k ez with any killer with 250+ hours only
You can't remove SWF cause it not fun for survivors, but killer can't have fun and are forced to face SWF
the problem with that is that survivor get to have fun but not killer.
All im saying is that there a reason survivor have 10 min queu time...
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249980#Comment_1249980
This wording doesn't indicate they only care about survivor fun, the wording is phrased this way because the change mostly affects the survivor experience. Ruin was just a passive gen speed nerf for killers, not much experience to be had.
''This wording doesn't indicate they only care about survivor fun, the wording is phrased this way because the change mostly affects the survivor''
They don't mention at all how it would affect the issue of gen rushing, the reason killer runned this perk in the first place. Also no the change don't ''Mostly affect survivor'' you gutted the best killer option to slow down the game. the only thing that changed for survivor is that now the perk is half as strong and that they don't have to deal with skillcheck anymore. Meanwhile Killer meta shifter cause they need to rework their whole build around the fact they need more weaker and gimmic slow down perk.
And no, im sorry, removing the skill check and regress speed was stupid. You don't like the fact you need to press space bar, it to hard for you? gen going to slow? Well it an hex, it the whole point of an Hex perk, if you don't want to deal with it you have to waste time cleaning that totems.
Now it ''fun'' for survivor, gen your working on can't be slower, No more hard skill check, but you can also stop other gen regress by cleansing totems
''Ruin was just a passive gen speed nerf for killers, not much experience to be had.''
Litteraly 80% of the game perks work in that way, most perk are just ''You get bonus and it work.''
Look at blood hound, it just a passive blood tracking perk for killing, Not much experience to be had.''
Look at Iron will, it just a noice regression passive for survivor, Not much experiece to be had''
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249908#Comment_1249908
Bad wording doesn't mean they're one sided...
Indeed, What it show is that they only care about survivor fun too. look at what they say about the new ruin
The Hex effect persists as long as the related Hex Totem is standing.
This version of the perk has many benefits:
- Survivors who are working on generators are unaffected as the perk no longer affects Skill Checks.
- Killers must be active in pushing Survivors off generators to get value from it.
- It is less useful in the early game, but very useful in the late game. Survivors now have a more interesting choice about when it is necessary to find and cleanse the Hex Totem.
See how the reworked KILLER perk has benefits like being not a problem anymore for SURVIVORS when they do SKILLcheck....
another benefits is that KILLER should be WORKING HARD to get value from a KILLER PERK"
also SURVIVORS now have INTERESTING CHOICE.
That a killer perk and clearly I think you see the problem.
The patch note aren't balanced around making the game balance they don't care if the new perk is op and who gonna use it, They only care if it FUN for Survivors.
Let say Huntress had a addon that let her have mape wide auto aim undodgeable hatchet that go trought obstacles, but it take 10 hits from these hatchet for survivor to go down a state.
They don't care if it strong or weak, what they care is ''Is it fun for a casual survivor to get hit by undodgeable hatchet''
so this mentality create thing like DS, they don't care about how anoying or strong this perk his for killer, it not fun for survivor to get tunel therefore BAM 1 min immunity.
But killer being forced to play musical chair on the hook don't seem to anoy them at all.
Like, you would think killer want to kill, and usually if I want to kill someone I need to hook them 3 time, some who got 2 hook left is closer to death. I want him Death. it my goal, Why am I punished to do that?
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@bilaueta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249858#Comment_1249858
You still are having to make two desitions just like plague
Lets say you choose to try to fully expose him when you see him, you are putting yourself at risk of being found by ghostface by revealing him or him knowing where you probably are base on what is going on. Just as if you decided to not cleanse against plague because you dont want to give her the special ability, you put yourself at risk for the benefit of the enitre team
Now if you were to choose to not expose him and avoid him, it would be like cleansing against plague, you put yourself in a safer state at the cost of the killer keeping their strong power and having a chance to down someone immediately
But you have to have a choice, Plague has her own way to force you into that desition because that is the point of her power. For ghostface there is no chance to make a that kind desition, its rather that you get revealed by the arrows to him without you trying to reveal him beforehand
I just explained how the plague designe is whole problem and you litteraly go like ''MAKE GHOSTFACE LIKE THAT''
Survivor having choice on how killer get to use their power is bad. The killer want to play with their power and survivor should'nt be the one in control of the killer power.
Look at the pig, she don"t give you a choice, she put a trap on your head. She give you an interssing choice right? waste time to remove the trap or you die. that it.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249717#Comment_1249717
Ruin was nerfed cause it ruined bad players but was usless against good players. And the recent update litrally made maps much smaller with dead zones everywhere. Stop acting like the devs are onesided Becasue there not
The upcoming mid-chapter update will also include a major overhaul to Hex: Ruin, and an associated update to the Gatekeeper Emblem. Recent data show that Hex: Ruin is used in over 80% of all games in the red ranks, and across the entire userbase it appears in about 45% of all games.
We took a close look at the perk to identify what makes it so frustrating to play against. Three key issues were identified:
- Its punishment of new players or those who can't hit Great Skill Checks. Newer players trying to help veterans with generator repairs tend to make the situation worse rather than better.
- The passive nature of the gameplay pressure it provides means that there is a huge amount of potential with very little effort or risk on behalf of The Killer.
- Its inconsistency due to the random nature of the appearance interval of skill checks.
That litteraly a copy paste of what the dev put on when they announced the nerf. see, it dosen't mention the reason you stated for the nerf.
and you can see the wording is clearly survivor sided.
''what make it so frustrating to play against''
point 1 litteraly being in favor of SWF.
Point 1 basicly say '' it should be okay for Survivor to no put effort''
Point 2 basicly say ''It not okay for killer to no put effort.
But here whe are with 15 min queu for survivors and killer find a game in 1 min, I wonder why. there MUST be a reason right? it not like the g ame LACK of killer playerbase or anything.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249864#Comment_1249864
Your whole comment was rambling on about DS, why should I need to read it all, every comment is the same "ds too strong me not good enough 5 second wasted oh no me can't win now i get ds". I rarely get hit by DS because It's so easy to counter, the only time I'll consider ds annoying is end game, but it rarely gets to that stage because I tend to kill survivors during the initial match and not the end game.
Then you did'nt read my comment k thx bye, I don't talk to echo chamber.
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@YumiiXO said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1247304#Comment_1247304
Honestly who cares. Idk why killers are so focused on who's swf anyways just play the game. If I get ran by players on comms cool. I still get 2 or 3k because of my skill.
Maybe people don't like to get rolf stomped by people who basicly got unfair advantage. it dosen't help that the matchmaking is so broken you face them at every rank. Think whatever you want, it don't feel good for people learning the game as killer to get abused by people who got maybe 4 time your playtime. the differance between killer and survivor is that the killer is alone. if your a rank 15 survivor and get matched agains a rank 1 killer, you still can have so fun cause you can end up being match with 3 other people who are red rank and who can carry you, yes your team will perform under there intended strenght, but it wont be a 1 way steamroll.
I can tell many new killer ditch out the game fast cause they get basicly no way to learn the loop, you will face people who know how to leave no room for your mistake and they wont be gentle.
People want to know if they face a SWF cause it aint fun to face them in most case, and only experianced killer can take them on, Player who still are learning the basic of the game wont have fun agains them at all and won'T learn anything.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249701#Comment_1249701
I'm barely reading your comments because it's incoherent rambling, but the survivors give up slots in their inventory for one time use perks (besides BT), and if you're there and having an issue with BT you know what else is there? A second survivor for you to chase, they're perks that are supposed to change the way people play the game, it's your choice to tunnel so suffer the effects of a perk that may or may not be in play.
If you don't read then don't reply cause you just sound dumb and prove my point even more...
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@daddymyers3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249845#Comment_1249845
Dont waste your time with him, I can only tell you he made a thread asking devs to make the exit gates area a exposed area.
Your thinking about the wrong person too, that thread was not mine.
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@bilaueta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249352#Comment_1249352
Alright man I made a poor point to try to explain my view, no need to be a d*ck about it
The point of my argument with spinechill is that there is a balance reason as for why you are not able to tell where the killer is coming from in all situations. As you said it makes the perk balanced for the killer.
Yes, it is a perk and not a whole power, in that you are right and yes it should be more powerfull. But it definetly should give a survivor the choice to put themselves at risk of being found. Removing the pointers while still maintaining a warning sound makes ghostface aware of someone revealing him while not making it a braindead mechanic of just getting behind a rock and walk straight for the guy 30 meters away who is just trying to heal and accidently looked at you for a second
''But it definetly should give a survivor the choice to put themselves at risk of being found.''
No it should'nt, let me explain why.
Yea, that sound good on paper, the issue with that is that you let survivor have a choice on how the killer power afftect them.
If you have a choice, you will never ever take the option that the worst, you will probably have to choose between 2 bad situation, but you get to pick the best of those 2 bad.
That end up creating killer like the plague
She puke one you, you get sick, you get the interactive choice of keeping the sickness at the cost of being stuck in the injured state OR you cleanse, removing the sickness, but giving the plague a dangerous tool.
That sound relly good on paper killer got a op power that put you in a bad situation, but you can easily remove it but that give the killer another tools.
Now come the issue, survivor get to choose if they cleanse and when they cleanse meaning they get to choose when ever it good for them to be sick or cleansed. Yea sure it suck to be injured, but that better than giving the plague a deadray that could turn a chase into a 3 man down in no time. so I wont cleanse unless I absolutly need to take a hit, like if we got 2 man on hook or if were about to open gate.
So then for the most part of the game Plague a powerless M1 killer, your puke useless since everyone infected after a while and your corrupted blood is useless cause survivor don't feel like cleansing yet. No one in their right mind gonna cleanse when there 3 teamates are stuck in injured state to let you do that amazing 360 no scope corrupted blood puke to take 3 people down.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249705#Comment_1249705
No you are being passive. Defensive playstyles are by their very nature passive. Camping in an FPS is a very passive way to play. You just wait for the enemy and ambush them. Very little effort for a very high reward. If the other side camps too then you get a never ending game (or one that goes to time) because neither side is willing to actively win.
There is no bias. If either side wants to pip they have to be active. Hence why I gave a perfect example of a passive survivor. Does nothing but still escapes = black pip (depip at red ranks). If I was bias I would be sitting here saying this survivor deserves to pip while the camping killer doesn't.
Also my original comment was how killers seem to correlate BP with performance when majority of killers get tons of BP just for existing in the game.
''Camping in an FPS''
this is not a fps, killer can catch you from afar while camping and stopping you from doing gens.
'' You just wait for the enemy and ambush them.''
Well clearly this should be rewarding the killer then, they even made a perk named Insidious for that kind of gameplay!
''Hence why I gave a perfect example of a passive survivor. Does nothing but still escapes = black pip''
But killer still have to chase at lest once and then protec his hooked person and his slug to profit of camping and reach a 4k situation,
in your exemple the survivor can go afk and only be back at the end.
Killer can't afk and 4k unless they play Bubba and survivor decided to dance around him till he come back.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1248885#Comment_1248885
Thats entirely wrong. The timer is 3s but you it just starts if you stand in a locker which takes additional time. Also I really doubt its 3s. If I try stopping time its alsways between 4 and 5 seconds. Also the stun doesnt give you back 3s of time, its less due to animations your character goes through. Head On still doesnt have a radius indicator, which is highly needed to see if it even would hit with this goddamn awful hitboxes. Also often you get hit first and the stun comes second to that, if the stun even happens, which also happens quite often. Head on is probably the worst inconsistent perk in the game. And like always: devs dont care.
Or maybe locker weren't designed to be safe heaven that put the killer in state were he has to stop spending time on you and go anywhere else or get stun for 3 sec. God forbid the killer get a 3 second windows where he can act, and where you still do bait and mind game.
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@doodledot said:
Im pretty positive the devs are working there hardest on the game, so what is complaining gonna get you?
Go read the Ruin nerf patchnote and tell me they are trying there hardest.
one of the reason they nerfed ruin was because
''It did not feel good for new survivor player to miss skill check"
Oh well, I guess it was sure a problem for survivor to put effort and skill when they did SKILLcheck....
Oh and the same patchnote said the new ruin had many benefit like
''Survivor who work on a gen are unnafected as the perk no longuer affect skill check''
Oh yea dev are trying hard to make the game fair and balance, they change KILLER PERK so they become BENEFICT to SURVIVOR.
I know this patch was 3 month ago and im late new but yea, if they still gonna nerf the best killer tools because ''It hard for new player to hold M1 and press spacebar'' No one gonna believe you when you say they are trying their best.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249679#Comment_1249679
Difference is survivor are active in doing their objectives. A killer that puts someone on a hook and waits is being passive.
That's like saying a survivor that hides all game and just runs out the door should be rewarded. Nah, they would depip for that too if they never touched a gen, totem, or made a save.
I mean, If you get 4K while camping your not passive, your being defensive.
you would only be passive in camping if no one take the bait, in that case you don't 4k, you 1k.
Just to be clear, im not for camper piping up, im just showing you you got a bias.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249536#Comment_1249536
"IMO the only way to fix survivor is to let me tunnel off hook without consequence".
So tell me a single reason killer should be punished for tunelling. they just doing their objectif of killing survivor are quickly as possible.
Meanwhile survivors don't get punished for gen rushing, but I guess it fine since it survivor right?
and before your bring out the NoED excuse.
DS can be used by all 4 survivor and that mean if the killer try to tunnel he have to waste one minute for each, so 4 minute at all, there no way to go around it, you waste a min per ds or the survivor get a free escape for free. If the killer decide to slug, he will have to lose any kind of pressure he have in chasing and protecting gens for a whole minute
Not only noed can be ignored you are 4 who need to spend a total of 14 sec per totems trought the game. that mean it take, at worst 1 min and 10 second provided you got no speed boost. a survivor need to spend 14 second on a totem so the team lose 1/4 of their pressure for that time.
So let me ask this, Why is it okay for killer to be punished for slugging,but survivor being punished for gen rushing is out of the question?
Not only DS waste a whole minute for the killer, where he lose any kind of gen and chase pressure, you also get 4 of them. and it activate automaticly when you get off hook.
But I guess NoeD is op cause the killer get a weaker DS that only activate when survivor decide so (your the one doing the gens) and it only take 1/4 of your map pressure for 15 seconds.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249547#Comment_1249547
You literally just explained why you don't deserve to rank up if you camp. SMH
So let me quote you on this ''So they did their objectives and ranked up for it?''
your kinda bias, Survivor doing 1/3 of their objectives and who die on first hook should rank up,
Killer doing their full objective but in a extremly cheap way don't deserve to rank up.
It almost as if your okay for one side to get a pip up in a cheap and easy way, but the other side should'nt be able to do the same
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249473#Comment_1249473
Dude you have to camp PRETTY HARD to not pip and still get a 4k. Meaning you didn't really go looking for survivors or chase them.
Not even close to being the same thing.
''Meaning you didn't really go looking for survivors or chase them.''
Do I have to explain how camp work to you? the whole point of it is baiting survivor near the hook to down them, Yea if I camp I won't go looking for survivor, im making them come to me. if they don't come I wont 4k because guess what, they will gen rush out cause they know how to deal with camp.
Yea if I camp I won't chase survivor, the whole point is that if I start a chase I wont be camping anymore.
your chase emblem point drain down fast if you stay near hook.
The fact that survivor will try to swarm you mean you will lose point in Malicious cause you wont chase them that much whitout going to far from hook.
You get devout cause you hooked people
Gatekeeper gonna be bad cause you don't care about gens when your defending hook.
If you manage to 4k and pip while camping, My bet is your cheating in some way since you somehow able to win chase while protecting hook while not being close to hook while stopping generators,
That or your a god at freddy who had incredible hook spawn near generators...
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@Speshul_Kitten said:
the map changes and extra 3 second-gen times didn’t seem like it affected survivors at all. I decided to challenge myself since the changes were pretty weak overall IMO. Please consider more serious changes in order to keep your Killer player base.
*peep my potato teammates using Premonition at red ranks (I used Premonition to fit in later).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/711/M2LPYMQR7UR7.jpeg
IMO the best way to fix the survivors being easy is to remove DS and BT. let me explain why.
First of the problem lie a bit deeper. it hard to do any change to objectives cause of a nasty loop
Survivor control the game space with Generators, nothing relly stop them from doing them in a real efficient way, if there isin't a minimum of 1 survivor on gen, your team doing something wrong.
Killer control the game space by hooking survivor, issue is that they can't tunnel and just, do the equivalent of gen rush, so survivor have a saying on how fast you do that, cause let be real, no survivor will let themself be catch gently without running.
So here we got 2 options, keep anti tunnel gameplay a thing and nerf gen speed/Give killer stronger gen slowing perk
OR
Keep gen as they are but remove anti tunnel perk so killer have a similar thing to ''gen rushing'' and can control the space of the game too
Now these 2 option are far from ideal, and let me explain why I prefer the second one.
The reason gen rushing can't be nerfed to much or can't have big op perk to counter them is that it exist for a reason. it a way to counter Camping.
If killer decide he facecamp at first hook, survivor have the option to just waste the killer time and be done with it.
You can't just remove camping from the game either cause if the survivor swarm the hook, the killer have no reason not to camp.
So were left with the other option, It let the killer control the game too and have a way to ''Kill rush'' and control the space of the game as well.
The issue with that is that now, survivor A can be punished by the mistake of Survivor B, if let say, survivor B do a safe unhook/don't body block or take a hit to let survivor A go to safety.
But is it relly an issue too? Survivor are a team. If one member does a good move, the whole team benefit from it, if one member does a bad move, the whole team is punished for it, that how team work.
Right now with current DS we got stupid senario like
Survivor A is injured and being chased, he does the very bad move by unhooking Survivor B, who has DS.
Killer can catch up to Survivor B who did'nt have time to run far, but cant pick them up for 1 min, so killer can hook survivor A. He now have to protect a hooked person and a slugged on, while making sure to apply pressure to the 2 other survivor.
Yes, the killer can play around that, but I don't think that healthy. No matter how you look at it, killer has two option.
- he let survivor B run away and don't get to profit that much of survivor A being a potatoes
- He enter a senario where he got 1 hook and 1 slug, but he has to waste 1 minutes cause of DS and clearly he has to sacrifice pressure or the slug or the hooked people. other wise he don't get that much from the lost minutes and he clearly can't be at 3 place at once.
So with current DS and this situation even if survivor A did a real bad mistake, the team win 1 minutes out of that mistake. yea he got someone down but they still gained 1 minutes from it.
you don't get to be in a team, but only get the good side of it by profiting that you all have the same objectifm but If survivor A do bad and involve Survivor B, survivor B can avoid consequence Or give his team an extra minute by just existing. At the same time, the killer is alone and can't be penalised by a teamate cause he got none, But he don't get the benefit of, let say, Having a second killer body blocking a survivor when first killer miss a M1.
Yea I understand it suck that Survivor B is penalised by Survivor A, but that what playing in a team is. Look at sport, let say soccer. if you try to kick the soccer ball to your teamate since your cornered, but then your teamate suck and don't catch the ball, well guess, what the other team will try and get the ball and profit of your teamate mistake. The game won't just go on pause to let you get the ball back because your good but your teamate bad.
That being said I don't think it the best way to make the game more balanced, but at this point the whole game need a rework and any bigger change than that would be a hudge shift to the game balance.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249366#Comment_1249366
So they did their objectives and ranked up for it?
Strange.
But camping as killer and doing 4k don't pip you.
Strange the kilelr did his objectif, he killer 4 person.
See we both can bring up bullshit if we want.
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@Respectfulnancymain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1245424#Comment_1245424
Because the point of the game isnt to end it instantly. The point is to get hooks, use your power and pressure gens
Just like survivors dont pip if they end the game in 5 seconds
Oh please, we both know that survivor can most the time even when they don't escape.
Survivor get enought point if they rushed gens cause well, they did gens and they probably escaped.
If killer end the game fast, he was either using mori or survivor dies on first hook, so he only got 4 hook and game say that not enought.
It incredible how the rank punish the killer for killing to fast..
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@thesuicidefox said:
Killer Mains: Uses power... +1000 BP
Also Killer Mains: Look at all these bloodpoints I got, I deserve to rank up for it.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Survivor: exist in the same game as freddy... +250 each time they fall asleep
Also survivor: wow I did 3 dull totems, 1 gen and i did'nt escape but I still pip up!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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@ClickyClicky said:
It’s one of the reasons why he sucks “bad word”
You see him, it starts revealing, hes constantly moving because obviously hes not going to stand still, a single blade of grass gets between you and him, it now cancels your reveal resetting it completely but now hes turned around and is coming for ya. Better yet is when he then exposes you in return. You’re basically punished for trying to play the game. As you say the alternative is to take your eyes off the killer, which is generally a really bad thing to do.
Uttery abysmal game design. I hate Ghostface. I hate him so much. He ruined survivor for me more than Legion.
Wow, look at that, low tier killer with the weak power ruin the game. Nurse who can ignore everything the survivor does and destroy them not an issue, but Legion who can be countered by not staying in group is op.
if legion a problem for you your playing in a bad way, even if you dont face a legion sticking together mean you cut your team pressure in half.
git gud
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@bilaueta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249112#Comment_1249112
Its the same as asking "What is the point to know that the killer is coming in your direction if you don't know from where?" when using spine chill. Sometimes you will know exactly from where and play around it based on context and sometimes you will have to simply have to react accordingly while still remaining behind cover every few moments
Spine chill a perk that let survivor know if the killer gaze at them
it a PERK. it need to be balanced
you get the info that killer probably going for you, so you check around you, giving you anything more than that would be stupid, you aint suposed to know a killer looking at you, that why you spent a PERK to know so, a PERK that wont be used for something else.
you are a SURVIVOR you PERK are supsoed to be weak cause there 4 of you
the KILLER is alone and need to KILL
ghostface has a POWER that give him an edge since he facing 4 people. his GAMEPLAY RELLY ON THAT POWER. his power locate people who look at him because they can disable it, therefore to prevent survivor abusing it weakness, ghostface get to have a decent way to know from where their power are being disabled
I dont see how you compare a survivor perk to a killer power trying to tell us they should be balanced the same way, you are not a clown, your the whole circus.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1248886#Comment_1248886
Yeah except you're forgetting that if you've ever played a game of solo queue in League, it's not as simple as "ping this thing and everybody knows." People don't pay attention, people mute pings and chat, people straight up will see and ignore things, and there's constant miscommunication whether or not they have the information presented to them. It's still putting people at a disadvantage to those who choose to use comms, as you can get information out in two different forms, and a lot more quickly.
On top of that, you acknowledge in your own explanation that there are perks that give you the information that you essentially say is hidden to the survivors. Which, just like the other game, puts somebody at a disadvantage because they didn't use comms. That's my point. That's what I'm referring to when I ask what's so different about it. You said it's because the other games are "competitive" and I know what you mean by that, but I don't see what that has to do with comms giving people an advantage in communication. Either way, you don't need perks to have an idea of where the killer is. An observant survivor can track the killer's general location pretty well and stay out of the way. I personally feel like I do a pretty good job of this when I play survivor. You just have to do stuff like keep your eyes peeled for crows taking off in the distance and listen for the heartbeat (obviously.) You're not always going to know where the killer is, even if you are on comms. That's also another similarity between DbD and those games. All of them have some sort of "fog of war" or line of sight blockers. You're not supposed to have every little thing given to you, and when you choose to not run aura perks or use comms with a group or even one friend, you're kind of just shooting yourself in the foot.
My point is, all these games have it within the rules that you are allowed to use comms, and people act like that should be taken away in DbD when there's plenty of games that harm people that are solo and refuse to use comms or group up with people. That's just the nature of online games: it's usually easier when you have friends to work together with. It's been like that since the early days of online gaming, and it will probably continue to be that way until the day gaming ceases to be a thing.
You missed the whole point, Ive seen huntress with better aim...
Joke aside, let me explain it this way then.
In league, your team all share the same info.
Yes for many reason people may not relay information correctly due to things you stated, but it don't matter the information was still here for the whole team.
Bot lane spot teemo in fog of war for 0,5 sec, the whole team see teemo on map for 0,5 sec. It don't matter if your team use that info or share it or whatever. the point is, if someone in team A gather any information, the game HuD and build in mechanic make sure all Member of team A get the info in some way or other. even if they don't care, even if they don't share it. The only thing coms do is let you share that info whitout the in-game build way.
In dbd it differant the game as made sure the survivor A don't have same info as Survivor B whitout them using perk slots. if survivor A see a totem for 0,5 sec the game don't tell anyone. survivor A know there a totem there, it up to him to clear it if he isin't chased, the game give no tools for the info the be share, it intended that way. survivor B C and D aren't suposed to know there a hex totem here unless they use a perk or that they found it themself.
Competitive game let you share info cause you had that info in the first place anyway, even if you did'nt see it or noticed or care about it. it was there for you to know. It dont matter if your on coms or not, the info here.
In dbd, the game don't let you use in game coms cause there is info that on survivor can know, but the 3 other can't, it not cause they did'nt see it, noticed it or cared about, it the fact the game did'nt show them, they don't know because they can't.
and then it matter in DBD because now the info you can't know is gived to you. and the game is balanced around the fact you should'nt have that info. The game designed in a way that yea, you can get some info with perk, but that a perk slot that won't be, let say, a second chance perk. it up to you to decide how much info perk you want or if you want any, but it force you into a choice, whitout coms, you wont have the best of all worlds.
In coms you don't have to make that choice, talking let you basicly get these info perk for free, and probably better on top of letting you save perk slot, and considering survivor already have 12 more perk slot than the killer, it a hudge advanatage you get here.
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@oxygen said:
There's no real way to "close the gap" between solos and SWF, but ultimately it doesn't even matter.
The expectation of being able to play with and talk to other people without anything that even feels like restrictions, handicaps or disincentivization exists on a level that's quite simply above things like game genres and balance concerns. It's an established expectation for multiplayer video games that will to some extent quite simply going to override balance concerns if the design of the game in question doesn't really work with traditional attempts to balance it (like seperate queues, matching parties vs parties or just putting voice comms in the game to begin with).
'' but ultimately it doesn't even matter.''
Yes it does, Killer don't want to play agains a team who can bypass on of their build in weakness without even trying, it not fun, it not fair. Would you think survivor like it if Huntress used a cross-air to improve aiming? Or would you find it fair if Nurse could use a outside program to know her blink range without using addon?
''like seperate queues,''
No killer would go in SWF queues unless they bring some Incredibly digusting top tier build on top 3 killer with a pink mori and their best addon. add to the fact it would take longer to find a game overall and some people would probably leave the game cause they can't go in normal queue as SWF and destroy noob killer.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1247379#Comment_1247379
The only reason survivors agree is because the keeps changing to accommodate the dynamic between SWF and Killers while not doing anything to align SWF and Solo Teams. Since the game is already being tuned to SWF, this means solos would want to be brought up to the level of SWF, not the other way around. LoL so, yes... Both have thoughts on SWF, but not in the same way. Lol
The game aint changed for SWF at all. otherwise BT and DS would'nt exist. BT and DS are perk made so solo can have an (in my opinion) unfair chance to get off hook if their teamate are potatoes (like an injured survivor doing a unsafe hook next to the killer.) The perk DS was created becasue 4 solo don't have the coordination to bodyblock in case the killer is tunelling in a normal situation ( and even then, we could argue tunelling is just the killer doing his objectif as fast as possible, like gen rushing..)
The issue with that is that SWF still have acess to these tools and can abuse them.
Also killer is far from having any tools made to face 4 coordinated survivors who have info sharing.
OoO Would'nt be a thing if game was balanced around SWF. there is no way the dev would have willingly gave survivor a permanent Aura reading tools to survivors who communicate. The killer strenght is that most of the time, 2 or 3 survivors don't have a clue where you are or what your doing.
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I prefer hiding, only problem is that the game clearly is balanced around the fact looping is the way to go, some killer got anti hide stuff (hi doctor) and looping waste the killer more time than hiding in 90% cases.
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@bilaueta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249045#Comment_1249045
I literally cannot understand your point of view.
You are claiming that I want all killers to be a M1 machines, which has nothing to do with the discussion
Now you say that my idea is helping the survivors, which is exactly the point of a nerf for one side, to favor anyone but the thing being nerfed.
I want you to understand my point of view, his power is completely fair and balanced. It offers a high risk high reward, for both the survivors and the killer. You risk having your power deactivated while the survivors risk getting spotted after fully revealing you.
Now thats where my problem lies, you should get revealed when you reveal him, not before since it makes the whole risk of being pulled out of your power pointless. You are punished as a survivor for something you not always have control and therefor you are forced to stay crouched behind your rock until he finds you since you can't look at him while you sneak away because you are revealed to him. The ghostface is rewarded for doing absolutely nothing, or even for playing wrong. Why should the survivor get punished if ghostface just so happened to walk past him in a completely open area with nowhere to cover himslef?
You want to nerf a killer power who already one of the weakest due to the simply fact you can already disable it. There a reason Ghostface know the direction on who looked at him, his power need to compensate for the fact you can disable it. Remove that he just become a Myer who can't stalk if you look at him. You just want him nerfed cause you got no idea how to play around it power. Im not a ghostface main or anything but I found your sugestion ridiculous. All you have to do is look at him DONT HIDE IF HE BUILDING STALK
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@tHisGaMeISBaLAnCED said:
So many people complain about NOED I complain about it when its becoming an issue
So the point is NOED is easily Counterable
Do the bones
Detectives Hunch
Small Game
Rainbow Map
-----------------------
But NOED rewards bad killer gameplay because the killer didn't prevent the gens from being finished they chase a survivor not thinking about their main objective and yes gen rushing is a problem but their are perks that prevent gen rushing like
- Discordance
- Corrupt Intervention
- Thrilling Tremors
- And Ruin
if anything killers should earn NOED they don't have to just get the ability Like Snap just like that you need to work for it like Devour Hope so it should be reworked to where in endgame the maximum of tokens are up to 4 and each token is consumed per survivor knocked down then when they all are consumed the only way to get them back up is by hooking them again to regain the token
Ok now the killer POV
So perks Like Decisive Strike and Adrenaline are rewarded to survivors for doing their objective Decisive Strike encourages survivors to volunteer to get hooked so they can give others time do objectives and heal. And Decisive Punishes Tunnelers and campers its absolute bull crap that killers do this and Killer mains alway say it should be removed just because you tunnel that one survivor? Wow pathetic
adrenaline is reasonable to get nerfed its being overused and its just hard to deal with as long NOED gets its nerf so should adrenaline because they are overused make adrenaline only give you the health upgrade and no speed boost
same with NOED just remove the speed hoost
honestly i hope i Don't get comments like
haha cute trap shut up by ||| a Baby legion main cause that ######### gets annoying as hell.
Do you guys agree?
and don't post just ######### comments cause this community is toxic enough i just want to know your guy's opinion :D
''But NOED rewards bad killer gameplay because the killer didn't prevent the gens from being finished they chase a survivor not thinking about their main objective and yes gen rushing is a problem but their are perks that prevent gen rushing like''
- Discordance
- Corrupt Intervention
- Thrilling Tremors
- And Ruin
Alright out of these perk only Corrupt is usefull, the 3 others work in a way that don't relly slow gens
Discordance, This don't slow gens, It just help you know where survivors are. Yes, that mean I know where to put pressure, but if 2 survivor work on a gen while I chase someone I wont care. Let not forget survivor do better when they all work on differant gens. That not a bad perk, but it not a a slowdown perk either.
Corrupt is the best out of the 4 you mentioned, it mendatory on set up killer. It become a useless perk after it effect end too, and it questionable on others killer. Losing a perk for the rest of the game is risky. as setup killer too it worh as your game are likely to go well the longer they are and 2 minutes is good
Thrilling Tremors sound extremly good on paper, you know what the issues? Chances are if you a picking up a survivor, the others are working on a gen or trying a save, so you eithr block gen when no one want to do them or gens wont be blocked at all.
Ruin is a better Thrilling Tremors, dosen't make it good too. It regress generator that aren't work on. so... Ruin is good to capitalise on the moment you manage to stop the gen rush. BUT it wont help you reach that state. You still have no tools to stop the gen rush, Ruin help capitalise the moment no one on gen, and that rare... Oh an it an Hex. a very weak perk to be an hex imo.
Yes killer go tools to slow the game down, but most those tools have questionable usefulness,requirement or downside.
''So perks Like Decisive Strike and Adrenaline are rewarded to survivors for doing their objective Decisive Strike encourages survivors to volunteer to get hooked so they can give others time do objectives and heal. And Decisive Punishes Tunnelers and campers its absolute bull crap that killers do this and Killer mains alway say it should be removed just because you tunnel that one survivor? Wow pathetic''
okay, first, what a nice delusional survivor main.
now let analyse that.
I don't have problem with adrenaline and agree it reward survivor doing objective, however, there objective are questionably easy to do and killer lack tools to stop them. Anyway, you wont have problem if you run NOED since it counter Adrenaline.
Now, Decisive Strike rewarding survivor for doing their objectives? Wow, do you honestly believe this? That sound as stupid as saying ''NoED reward Killer for doing their objectives'' No letting the other team doing there objectives aint completing your.
Survivors don't colunteer to get hooked. Killer catch them and temporaly remove 1 survivor from the game, if anything getting hook mean 2 people have to go off gens, your slowing down your objectif that not helping. Plus, if your volunteering to get chase good killer will ignore you, you clearly wont be the team weaker looper, your acomplishing nothing but lie to tell yourself. OH yea, going on hook to give your team time to heal?...Look im a killer main and I can tell this is a stupid mindset. If someone need to heal you need to delay the next hook, otherwise no one gonna be on gens or a slug incoming.
DS give a 1 minute immunity to being picked up each time you go down the hook until it used, You do nothing to earn it. The game don't care if you looped the killer for 1 min, 10 second or if you were afk when you got caught. you get the DS anyway.
''And Decisive Punishes Tunnelers and campers its absolute bull crap that killers do this and Killer mains alway say it should be removed just because you tunnel that one survivor? Wow pathetic'''
alright let me do the same but for killer okay?
''And NOED punishes gen rusher, it absolute bull crap that survivor do this and survivors mains alway say it should be removed just becasue you gen rush? Wow Pathetic''
If your okay with Gen rushing existing you should accept the fact killer should be allowed to tunnel. You don't deserve a 1 min immunity. if your teamate unhooked you in a bad situation that suck but guess what? he did a mistake and mistake are punished by the killer. They should'nt have to slug you for a whole minute just cause you happend to be in weak state or because your teamate did a stupid unhook.
With noed you can just do bones or brute force to the exist, if you have DS even if I slug and do the best play I can around the fact I can pick you up, I lose a Whole minute anyway. no matter the situation, the game don't care if you were healing behind a rock and I had nurse calling 30 seconds after the un hook. Ds reward stupid play and make you way to much safe.
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@bilaueta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1249028#Comment_1249028
If you are hiding to avoid getting caught and he appears in your screen and you try to look away to not get spoted, ghostface is automatically pointed at your direction. Its as if you had thrown a pebble next to you for no reason. He gets notified of your location and you gained absolutely nothing except a "Oops should have looked at any other way". You did not even attempt to reveal him but you got revealed anyways, see the problem?
Yea I see the problem, Your seeing a Ghost face building up stalking and you try to hide when you should be looking at him. You got no one to blame but you, You want killer using their power to help survivors and that survivors also be rewarded for canceling these power. You might as well turn all killer to M1 killer with no power.
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@Zaitsev said:
Every time I visit the forums, there is endless bitching and moaning about the "low skill ceiling" of certain killers and perks.
Now, BHVR, hear me out. Why dont you release another S tier killer with a more complicated or harder to grasp power, to raise said skill ceiling. Why not add S tier perks that require skill to use instead of rewarding failure like NOED and DS.
Whats wrong with a complicated character that requires a lot of mechanical skill to play efficiently? Why just add simple and easy to understand, but increasingly poor/mediocre killers?
''Whats wrong with a complicated character that requires a lot of mechanical skill to play efficiently? Why just add simple and easy to understand, but increasingly poor/mediocre killers?''
What wrong is that they are hard to balance, look a nurse.
Also it debatable if it fun for a killer to put that much effort on a single characther when survivor can win easily by holding M1 half the game.
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
past 7 mins trying to queue up as survivor...
less than 15 seconds to queue up as a killer....
There only a small ammount of killer. But hey it not bright on killer side either.
You keep facing red rank as soon as you reach rank 15 killer lmao.
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@bilaueta said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1248982#Comment_1248982
It would be if you actually got to gain something as well. If you just randomly see him for half a milisecond just because you were looking around and paying attention to your surroundings you are at a disadvantage even though the killer is the one who misplayed
''It would be if you acctually got to gain something as well''
Jeez not only you cancel a whole killer power you want bonus over that? What next? Hag should be blinded when you destroy her trap?
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The thing is that the only way to nerf SWF is to remove anti tunel perk, let me explain myself.
the game unbalanced is due to a loop
Survivor control the speed of the game with fast gens speed
You can't relly nerf the gen speed cause they need a way to control the game if they face a camper.
Therefore killer should have the same option to counter survivor who swarm hook/do bad play by tunelling
But survivors got extremly good tools again tunnel and these tools put kiler in bad position even when survivors does potatoe play
If you remove these tools Solo survivor will struggle more.
But then again, with these tools killer can be forcer in a situation where camping is favorable
But survivor got some anti camping tools and can use them even if killer doing it simply cause survivor are swarming hook
And you cant remove these tools cause that would make any kind of camping viable
So now the problem is that survivor don't have the weakness of a team, They got way around their friend doing mistake, but they will alway profit of each other good move.
In my opinion, anti tunnel perk should be removed cause survivor can abuse them to do bad play that become favorable to survivor.
The issue with that is that solo survivor will complain, but honestly. I don't care, if im chassing survivor A and he decide that it a smart idea to unhook Survivor B while he injured, well too bad for survivor B, They should both go on the hook. I don't care if B is a solo survivor who could'nt do much on that. He should'nt be immune to his teamate mistake with BT or DS 1 min immunity. As a Killer I should'nt have the struggle to slug you for a whole minute while defending a hook and making sure gens aren't worked on. Survivor A did a mistake that should be extremly costy for his team. It suck for survivor B but that how team work. At the same time, as killer I need to accept that if I miscalculated my M1, I wont have another killer buddy to body block you.
Killer are alone. They do a mistake, there no one to help them, At the same time, they got no teamate to do bad play on them
Survivor are in team, Any favorable action a single member does affect the whole team positively, it should be the same when it a bad play. if your survivor friend put you in danger, you should'nt be protected from that danger.
I know it suck for Solo, but giving the killer the power to tunnel is the best way to fix the balance issue, it also remove SWF abusing these protection tools.
In the end it relly sad the most healthy way to deal with that is to nerf the one guys that aren't part in the problem too.
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@BigBrainMegMain said:
I never understood that either.
The Killer Instinct is fine, but if you catch even a glimpse of him, your location/area is revealed.
That's too much information being fed to a killer.
It's a built in Whispers Perk.
On the other side you can counter a whole killer power by looking at him, You got more saying about him about making his power efficent.
I think it a fair tradeoff
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@Cixon said:
The reason I made this post is because I feel like it's missing. Hitboxes should be dynamic for both survivor and killers. Not just a single standard for all types. For a asymmetrical game, it's too repetitive.
When I do play survivor I underestimate some killers reaches ALOT. Like Legion and Ghostface because they carry knifes. So I can see this doing a favor for new players and current ones as well as they know what they're getting into not only what special abilities the killer's have wise but their reach as well.
Lunges are all the same for every killer so that doesn't change at all as it shouldn't to begin with. It's how far their hit box for their physical attack can reach is what the topic of this discussion is.
No matter how you look at it, it would be a nerf to certain killer and the balance already in a horrible state. It dosen't help killer relly a Lot of that for chase and reducing reach would make some loops near vault impossible to win for those killers with short range. Add on the fact you propose NO BUFF WHATSOEVER for killer with short range.
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THe reason is simple, The game got a fun concept but has so many flaw it disgusting to play sometime, I wont go over all but that the big of it.
First the issue with roles balance.
Survivor are in a bit weird position, it seem 2 differant team work on them. On one side, they are designed to be 4 randoms who can't communicate together but need to use Jooly cooperation to beat the killer, there are hight chance not all will make it, but it better than all of them getting kill. On the other side, SWF exist so communication isin't an issue anymore, so facing a 4 man swf change the game no matter what. Compared to a non asymetrycal game, information isin't mean to be shared. If you play League of legend for exemple. your team share the same HUD and game information, if your teamate make you notice he saw a foe heading to you, you could have knowed it sicne the minimap would have telled you. DBD don't get that cause information Survivor A have Will be differant from what Survivor B know. Even if you aren't tryhard SWF who want to win at all cost. just saying ''the killer camping me'' reduce the need of anyone in your team to have a perk like kindred.
So what about solo survivor? well they complain they got potatoes teamate so they get second chances perk that negate bad play, and SWF get to use it to.
So we got one side that over all benefit from cooperation but can ignore it downside + they have the option to ignore important gameplay mechanic.
Then you got killer who honestly are balanced like a AI in a party game. it hard to explain, but let me take Plague for exemple.
Your power is to puke on people, they get sick, they need to clense, you profit of that and unlock a rellu op side of your power that compared to a death ray puke. Fun on paper. it an interactive mechanique that both side use.
But what if survivor decide to they don't want to play that game? what if they don't cleanse?
You don't get to use your power, you become a walking M1 stick that punish mistake.
This sum up the killer issue tbh. it feel like their mechanique are balanced like a party game, but if one of the 2 side ignore them or don't use them as intended, one of the two side get a bad experience and it impossible to balance the game around that,
Another exemple is hook.
They are designed to be used in a single way. Hook someone, leave. that it.
Killer can abuse it by camping, so survivor get to control the game with easy generator to do, so if a killer camp and use hook in a boring and disgusting way, they get punished by the many perk, the ranking system or just survivor being smart.
But what if were in a situation were camping the solution? Well survivor can exploit that by swarming the hook and using their perk to do save rescue whitout the killer being able to punish the team for doing what you should'nt be doing agains campers.
Then you get tunnelig. What if the killer don't go for another person like intended by the hook system? Well, we give survivor tools to go around that.
AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE THE BIGGEST DBD PROBLEM LIE IN.
these tools are incredible and help survivor do potatoe play thay reward them and punish the killer, creating a lose/defavorable situation for the killer who sometime don't tunnel and just play in a logical way.
Tunelling isin't viable to the killer cause it unfun for the other side. but isin't it like gen rushing? it just the best logical way for the killer to win after all.
TLDR
So then here come the issue.
Survivors got a way to end the game fast
Killer are punished for trying to do the same
You can't simply nerf generator since it will make camping Viable.
You can remove anti tunnel tools, but it will make the game less fun for the other side.
at the same time, nothing stop survivors from doing their objectif fast.
But if we get something that does that, camping become viable
and you can't simply remove camping cause in some rare situation, it the thing to do.
The survivor team can simply go around theire intended game mechanic with SWF
SWF no matter what get info even if they are casual so it alway a small boost.
And then you have the tryhard swf who are basicly Survivor Nuke
Killer on the other hand can't have any similar advantage since they would have no reason not to bring it during a game, and solo still exist, so you can't just buff killer to much
But at the same time killer got Ebony Mori and some digusting powerfull addon combo that act as a nuke too
So we got the balance in a toxic loop that can't relly be fixed while both team got Nuke and no limitation on when to use these nuke.
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@Cixon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1246791#Comment_1246791
Eh I disagree. It's just a way to balance all the killers to make up for the lack of literal sense for the killers.
It doesn't make sense that a freddy has the same range as someone with a katana. It just doesn't make sense.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1246765#Comment_1246765
Movement speed isn't the same. Also this topic is on length not lunge.
''It doesn't make sense that a freddy has the same reach as someone with a katana. It just doesn't make sense.''
If were going to put realism in the game then I will make this game horrible for you
It dosent make sense that a katana can break a wood pallet, katana are fragile therefor it should break.
Survivor aren't suposed to have that much blood, if they drop blood for more than 2 minute and a half they automaticly die.
It don't make sense survivor can run after getting unhook, they got slashed twice and got pieced by a hook, they should be on dying state off the hook and take trice as much time to heal
It dosen't make sense survivor wave their hand near generator to repair it, they should find various tools that can all break to repair each single generator.
It dosent make sense Billy simply get stop when he run and hit a small wall/object in his path, he should drop his chainsawn, spin over the wall/object and break his neck, therefor survivor win.
I can go all day...
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Tbh I just want them to stop acting like killer are suposed to be ''fun and interactive'' with their power. let me explain what I mean by that,
Look at Plague, her power is fun and interactive. You poison people. they cleanse, your poison is now a damage ray, fun
that if survivor decide to interact with it, they can also not clense and make half you power useless.
I don't mean that we should'nt get fun power, what I mean is that they need to stop balancing it like it a party game power if the survivor can play seriously and get a serious telling on if you can use x part of your power or not.
See the deathslinger is something done right, survivor can dodge your shot, but they can't just say ''Oh lol now your can't reload anymore till next game c: )
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@deadbyhitbox said:
DeathSlinger doesn't lack map pressure with the recent map changes.
What he mean is that Deathsligner got no build in map pressure withing his power. Unlike Freddy, you can't tp to a gen 5 seconds after putting someone on a hook, you have to walk here.
Let say 2 injured survivor work on differant gens, and you got that knowledge. If you play freddy you can walk to on gen, down the survivor, tp to the other and down them
Deathslinger can't do that, he as to walk to both of them and could risk losing a gens.
That what I think he mean by map pressure.
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@Huff said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1248790#Comment_1248790
Tell me again how any of that is different from being able to use comms in other games. Examples would be CSGO, Overwatch, League of Legends, DotA 2. All of these games are similar in that they allow comms (whether integrated or 3rd party), allow people to opt out of comms, and they all share the similarity of people not being grouped up on comms being weaker. Now why aren't these other developers banning comms in their games? It clearly provides a large advantage to anybody using it.
If you don't like people playing with comms, then honestly maybe the communication isn't the problem.
There many differance between these game and this one, first one, the one your named are competitive. both team have the same tools and no information is hiden, you can just make them obivious for your teamate. Take League for exemple. Yes, you can tell that your ultimate is ready, that you have bought an item or that you did see someone in the fog of war, but that all information your teamate have acess too, you just let them know in case they did'nt check themself. The game show whenever your team ult are ready, you can check your ally items anytime and if your ally did see someone in the fog of war, you whole team know cause the said enemy did appear on your team mini map. Coms let you communicate faster and the other team have access to it too. In the games you named, the game are balanced around the fact that if your teamate know something, you know it too at the same time, you just did'nt pay notice.
Now take dbd, Dbd is not a competitive game. first, it a asemetrical game. Both team does not have the same objectif, both them don't have the same tool.
One tool survivor lack whitout exterioir mean or certain perks is communication and where or what the killer doing.
Let me show you differant scenarios to show how it impact the gameplay
let assume no one have coms for this first one and no one have kindred.
Senario 1:
Survivor A get put on hook
The survivor team get these informations.
-The location were Survivor A is hooked.
-The knowledge that the killer is no longuer in chase
Survivor B, C and D don't know if the killer is camping, they don't know if anyone else is going for the un hook and they don't know where other survivors are. Their only way to ever know is for each single of them to either go check themself or ignore to hooked survivor till someone else go for the rescues. they got no way to comminicate.
Meanwhile survivor A as knowledge of what going on around the Hook, but can't tell it to other survivor.
See this scenario show the first differance between competitive game and DbD. your put in a situation where members of the same team Can't have at any time the same knowledge of what going on. There is no way in this situation where Survivor B,C and D can know what happend in dirrect time in Survivor A screen.
Each Survivor has it own information about what happening in the game. there no HUD telling you exactly what happend.
For exemple let say survivor A get chased, the 3 other can't know if a chase is going on who is chased and where unless,
Survivor A get hit,there fore the HUD tell you he got hurt.
OR
The killer happend to be chasing Survivor A near you and you see them running.
Now let take scenario 2,
Survivor A got kindred
Survivor A get hooked. The whole team now know if the killer is near the hook and were each single of them are
Survivor A used on of his perk slot to give an advantage to his team, they now have knowledge they would'nt have acess too, the perk was usefull
Kindred perk is usefull only because Gain knowledge they could'nt have if they did'nt run the perk.
Senario 3
Survivors are on coms and don't have kindred
Survivor A get hook.
Survivors can communicate with eachother, therefore Survivor A can tell any thing that happend around the hook, Survivor B and C are relatively close to the hook, Survivor B tell them he close and go for the save, survivor C and D get the knowledge they can stay on their gens, someone going for the save for sure.
The team get around 3/4 of what kindred could have given them if they did'nt communicate, freeing a perk slot for the team.
As you see, communication just gave them best of borth world, survivor get acess to informations they weren't suposed to have whitout using a perk slot.
TLDR The game you gave as exemple are competitive game were each single member of the team share the same information poll no matter if they are on coms or not. In league if someone see the enemy jungler, it appear on your whole team minimap. the team can tell you if you weren't carefull about the minimap, but it don't change the fact that if they noticed, you too could cause the game gave you the information anyway.
In DBD this isin't the case, each single survivor got their own knowledge of what going on. the whole team don't get Aura reading on killer as long as 1 survivor see the killer. The game is balanced around the fact. The game is balanced around the fact Survivor A can know something Survivor B has no way to know, Coms let you ignore this and break the balance.
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There no way to counter SWF. you need to Hope they be altruisitic or that they will try to bully you, if they want to play optimally, you wont counter them cause killer relly on survivor lack of communication and mistake, SWF remove lots of these mistake.
casual SWF are less of an issue, but they still call out information to each other, you wont be catching 2 survivor going for a save cause no one brought kindred, for example.
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@Huff said:
It's astounding how people still act as if comms haven't been in games forever. It hasn't been a problem for other multiplayer games, so I don't know why it suddenly is a huge deal.
Also, the people complaining about rank still don't grasp that rank isn't really indicative or anything except how often you play. The devs themselves say it, and they're the ones that design the dang system. If you believe otherwise, then you're probably just looking to place blame on something else.
''It's astounding how people still act as if comms haven't been in games forever. It hasn't been a problem for other multiplayer games, so I don't know why it suddenly is a huge deal.''
It a deal when one of the biggest survivor weakness designed by the dev were the lack of communication between them. All they have is 2 emote and crouching.
Kindred a fine example of that, It a perk that let you see the killer aura if he near somebody who hooked. the perk is usefull for people with no comunication since
- Let you know if killer camp
- let you know where the killer head if he don't camp
- let the whole them know what they are doing and where they are, that to let them know if someone else go for the save, or if someone else is chased for example.
See the issue with that? Anyone on coms can tell that right away whitout the perk. that save the team 1 perk slots.
OoO, let a single survivor Aura read the killer when they look at their direction, but the killer can see them if they also look in the survivor direction.
That a hudge3 advantage to know what the killer does and where he is at will, BUT he can also focus you and you have no way in game to tell that information to other player. that how the perk balanced.
in coms, your whole team got OoO if a single person has it. meaning you eliminate half the drawback of OoO and you can eliminate the other half by protecting the OoO user since your on coms and can coordinate.
Survivors lack to way to communicate cause the game designed this to be one of their weakness, solo will lack coordination and the game intended this way.
See this like that, You know the game ''Keep talking and nobody explode?'' it a coop game where one player take off a bomb will the other has a book and need to tell him how.
Both player lack information and the game is made to be like that. There would be no challenge if the one who has the book could directly see the bomb and then show the other player the book on what to do at the correct page.
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1243518#Comment_1243518
Spirit and Nurse are still 2 of the best but only harder to use (in Nurse's case). Ruin was a heavy hit, that's true, but it gave birth to the really strong Ruin + Surveillance combo, and made gen tapping have a counter. Very neutral change for both sides. Breakable walls are... debateable, I don't think it's a heavy hit, but nor is it a help, I'm unsure.
Overall, wouldn't say they were 'heavy hits' for killers, they hardly changed the game aside from the ruin nerf.
If i need to spend half my perk to counter something 4 people have in their basekit the game have an issue, just saying. Oh and let not forget Ruin is an hex, a incredibly weak on at that.
I consider breakable wall kinda weak of a change, we can't even break most of them unless we want to create good loops for survivors,
The worst being what killer refer as the ''meme room'', it vault that leard to 3 breakable walls. a dead end for survivor, but if the killer break one of the walls, they also need to break the 3 of them or it create an infinite god loops.
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@Calisto_667 said:
Just process this for a moment...
When devs decided to nerf ruin what was actually the reaction of most killers? "Now I am going to bring Noed, I am going to facecamp, tunnel and slug". Which actually happened because at red rank I saw a lot of killers bring Noed and tunnel and even facecamp survivors. Slugging also became a thing. Killers found a way to combat it by putting on Corrupt Intervention, Surveillance etc and changing their strategy and survivors had to deal with it.
Now with these changes that ONLY favors the killers: Survivors are for sure going to find a way to combat all the dead zones without pallets in the updated nerf maps and the loop nerfs. Now survivors on these particular maps have a much lower percentage of surviving a chase long enough to give the other survivors chances to complete gens so of course survivors are going to find strategies to combat these new changes. Prove Thyself, Better Together and completing separate gens to move gen speed and killers are going to have to figure it out too.
Not only that, but Toolboxes are basically USELESS as well and killers still find a way to complain. It was something I knew was going to happen. It doesnt matter what the devs do to please killers. They always complain.
What people need to understand is that everytime the Devs make a decision to nerf something on one side its going to create a reaction where the side with the weakness is going to find a strategy to combat that. What did the killers expect? For survivors to hide and do nothing and stand in the new dead zones to get picked up by the killers? No! If you are upset people are genrushing then its your responsibility as a killer to come up with a build or a strategy to combat that. There is Pop, Dying Light, Tana (which non of them got nerfed even after coop repairing got a nerf) so there is no excuse to keep complaining after this huge nerfs against survivors to favor the killers. Sorry
'''When devs decided to nerf ruin what was actually the reaction of most killers? "Now I am going to bring Noed, I am going to facecamp, tunnel and slug"'
Well yea, you remove killer best and almost only optimal way to slow down game, they now have to use NoED, proxy camp, tunnel and slug, that how you slow down a game. Survivor has way to deal with these so idk why you complain, most these strat only work if survivor let them work anyway. MAYBE you should'nt go for a save if someone is hooked and someone else is slugged right next to him, just saying.
''Killers found a way to combat it by putting on Corrupt Intervention, Surveillance etc and changing their strategy and survivors had to deal with it.''
You had to addapt to doing gens faster and having less pressure put on your shoulder, If only you did'nt have to adapt to killer using weaker strats, Poor survivor, this is so sad and hard ;-;
''Now with these changes that ONLY favors the killers:''
No, these change don't only favor killer, your delusional. They affect killer greatly not because it a buff but because it removed major problem in the game. God loop were litteraly invincible heaven for survivor, that should'nt have existed in the first place. and map being smaller help the killer cause some could'nt use their power effectively, you know, using the biggest advantage you have as kill is fun sometime...
Map being smaller mean loop are closer to each other and we already see extremly survivor sided loop close to each other in certain maps, I think it one of the corns map that has a jungly gym and shack real close together with a junk pile nearby, that like 5 loops and 2 pallets. Granted all loops are far from this good, but it dosen't change the fact loop are closer, there is less space between loop for killer to get you with their bloodlust...
'' Now survivors on these particular maps have a much lower percentage of surviving a chase long enough to give the other survivors chances to complete gens''
2 things
First, Gen are done incredibly fast and as you said killer lost their most efficient way to slow them down. if you can't loop them enought to complete gens, maybe you should train more and get better at mindgame, cause that the only way for killer to get you b4 gens go down. if a killer can simply folow you and catch you with bloodlust whitout gens being done, Survivors are doing something wrong, either they suck at loop or they don't do gens.
Second, it may sound stupid but yea, Survivor are suposed to die. Escaping is a secondary objectif for survivors, you goal is to do gens and chase, that how you pip as survivor, Hiding, healing and escaping are just extra point. Killer on the other hand need to kill you for their objectif, there 4 of you and killing take way more time then doing gens. Killer can't run 4 people at once and relly on survivor doing mistake to do anything atm. the game dev try to balance around killer doing 2k, and you can tell something wrong when killer either do 1k or 4k most the time, game are to fast, survivor control the timer. Killer would'nt be able to do anything if it weren't for the survivor doing mistake. there a maximum ammount of pressure a killer can put, and they can't have less than 1 person on gens unless survivor screw up.
''No! If you are upset people are genrushing then its your responsibility as a killer to come up with a build or a strategy to combat that. There is Pop, Dying Light, Tana''
Your not a clown, your the whole circus.Follow me on this one okay... Killer can't stop genrushing unless survivor make mistake... that it. Pop is the bestt killer tool and it only save 20 second on a single generator each hook. Survivor can work on many generators at that take 80 sec to complete if you got no toolbox,perk,and never hit great skillchecks. Killer can do whatever they want, it will alway take 3 hook to kill a survivor, 120 second for them to die, only survivor can shorten that time up by unhooking. Survivor control the lenght of the game. the only way to kill survivor is for them to do mistake. Killer can't gain time if survivor don't let them.
Oh yea also you asked kilelr to use Dying light, arguably the worst gen speed slowdown perk of the game. you clown.
Thana work in niche build on certain killers that all.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
It's not really the intention of this thread to start a flame war or add to the echo chamber, so I would appreciate it if you wonderful people would keep your comments slightly constructive. That's all I ask.
On to the topic..."Waffle, wth? Why does NOED need a change, it's the only perk to counter genrushing!" NOED needs a change mostly because of two MAJOR reasons. I'm sure you've heard them a million times, so you'll stand hearing them a couple times more.
NOED Punishes Solo Queue Survivors
Swf know how many totems their teammates have cleansed, and rough estimations of totem locations can be called out as well. Without this information, cleansing dull totems is an unreliable strategy unless you use up some perk slots. Not only can you not keep track of where totems have already been cleansed to save time, but you also don't know whether or not your teammates will cleanse the totems they find. Removing such a key counterplay is definitely an unnecessary punishment.
NOED Rewards Camping
NOED is in the survivors' hands if the killer doesn't apply enough pressure. Camping is easy effective pressure, and is therefore easy NOED value. It is very to put the survivors in a position where they can't possibly do gens fast enough and do totems, meaning mileage from NOED is basically confirmed with this strategy.
Why This Needs a Change
The gap between swf and solos makes it extremely hard to balance the game. Will this patch make swf crush killers? Will this patch make killers crush solos? Reducing this gap through any possible means could go a long way for the health of the game. Camping is an unpleasant strategy and the non-interactive nature of it makes the game extremely boring for all of the players. Reducing the effectiveness of this strategy would be in the developer's best interests in order to not discourage players.
Feel free to bash me in the comments and call me lazy, I won't stop you nor am I sure that I can. If you agree NOED needs a change, I would love to hear your suggestions and perhaps the developers will find inspiration from the community towards making a change that would improve the experience of many players.
NOED Punishes Solo Queue Survivors
Yes, if they don't do bones, you need 1 out of 4 survivors to bring detective hunch, there a reason most solo survivors run it now.
if you don't bones correctly, that on your team, that the survivor strenght, team. Someone do a great playm the whole team benefit of it, someone do a bad play, the whole team have the downside of the play. You can't have the best of 2 world where the dude who use Detective Hunch reward the team for countering any Hex, But your team don't get punished if he dosen't.
NOED Rewards Camping
''NOED is in the survivors' hands if the killer doesn't apply enough pressure. Camping is easy effective pressure''
LOL this is so bad of a strawman argument. No, a killer camping the worst way for them to apply any kind of pressure. IF the killer camp you have a whole 2 minutes to clean totem and do gen whitout any kind of risk. It only pressure if survivor swarm the hook insted of doing anything else.
''It is very to put the survivors in a position where they can't possibly do gens fast enough and do totems,''
it take 120 second to die on hook and 80 to do a gens, knowing that unless the killer do a extremly short chase early on in the game, a gen will be done around the time the first survivor is hooked, with a max of 3 other gens being worked on and who are, at worst around 40% done. Detective hunch as triggered once, and most totem spawn are near generator, any hided totem has been counter by Detective. and it take 14 seconds by default clensing a totem. You could argue that ignoring totem would be a good idea and to simply gen rush if killer face camp. that another option.
you have all time in the world if killer is camping, there 3 of you around the whole map.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1247261#Comment_1247261
Honestly, the best thing I can say is: Comms isn't aura reading. If a team is calling out info that well, that's one of those teams that should probably be playing Rainbow Six instead of bullying people in DBD. For the most part, the little callouts that add up are things like 'oh, I have Deliverence, just stick to gens' or 'the killer is ghostface' or 'uh, guys, I maybe used shack pallet'. Generally speaking, SWF isn't aura reading. It's a bit stronger than aura reading, imo, just in an indirect way. You don't know exactly where everyone is or what they are doing, but you have a general idea AND can do shite like 'nah, leave me, I have DS/Unbreakable. Do gens instead.'
Aura reading, in the other hand, is straight-up situational wallhacks. Nothing will ever equal Kindred for what it does, nor will anything equal Bond for what it does. Comms just sort of does these jobs in a poor-mans way while giving you an assortment of other boosts.
''Aura reading, in the other hand, is straight-up situational wallhacks. Nothing will ever equal Kindred for what it does,''
are you stupid?
''hey, the killer is camping me''
There, you saved yourself using kindred,
''Hey, im the close and killer gone, I will go for the unhook''
I just negated the 2 reason you need kindred at all.
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@MPUK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1247304#Comment_1247304
You can start right next to a trap and know it is the trapper without seeing him. Pretty much every Trapper traps the shack. This example of how "strong" SWF is, is weak. Everyone would expect the trapper to trap the shack without a friend telling them.
Just because they are SWF doesn't mean they are good. This is the problem with the blanket complaint about SWF. Many are bad players.
If you want to be dishonest with yourself that your problem, there is a reason the majority of the playerbase agree that SWF is the biggest game issues, and that include survivors.
