thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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This is different than normal games how?
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/454735#Comment_454735
@thesuicidefox I've already addressed most of your objections. The change can basically be made "idiot proof". Rank 20-16 players can also be given extra bonuses to help with the training wheels. They can make a glowing trail that only the survivor can see that goes directly from the generator to the part's location for all I care. They can give them a bonus to repair speed to offset the travel time to and from the generator to the part. By the time the survivor gets to rank 15 they won't need the hand holding any more. Once a survivor dies or DC's, they won't need to look for parts anymore either. So survivors still have an opportunity to come back if they are losing at any rank.
Despite your assertion that high rank survivors won't be effected, you are simply wrong. Yes, they will be more experienced at finding the parts. But there is no way to shortcut the fact that they will need to spend an extra 30 seconds or so running to and from the generators. The time spent running around acts as a form of brakes in the early game. Which is what we both agree needs to happen.
So basically we need to make all these new crazy mechanics to make up for the fact that the extra objectives will screw over low rank survivors. And you don't see anything wrong with that? At this point you are changing the fundamentals of the game. Perks will need reworks. Killer powers will need reworks. Items/add-ons will need reworks. This is bad for the game.
The solution to gen rush has to be unobtrusive to the core mechanics of the game. It has to only affect high tier survivors and not low tier survivors. New objectives do neither of these things.
Look, this idea of second objectives sound good on paper but it won't make a difference. Like I said, I play with a group that can do all 5 gens and totems in under 5 minutes. Ruin or not doesn't matter. We just rush everything, and killer doesn't have much they can do. Yea maybe a second objective will slow us down a little bit but not enough to make any sort of difference. All it does is screw over low tier survivors by making the game THAT much harder for them. Even during the Hallowed Blight event, if survivors were in a group they could rush the plants too. It doesn't matter what you throw at them, survivors will rush it. The only reasonable option is to put time stops so that rushing isn't possible.
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Yea Legion is all over rank 1. It's annoying because most are boosted AF with lame add-ons/tactics.
Can't wait for his rework update to hit.
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@Pizzaman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/453333#Comment_453333
So if I get that right, you would prefer to have the downvote AND upvote button removed. Because you can up and downvote anything without providing any explanation.
The difference is that, if you agree with someone you don't need to additional context. You just agree with them.
But if you disagree, well why do you disagree? Do you disagree with EVERYTHING they said or just one thing? Do you completely object to their ideas or just think they need to work on the details? Do you valid reason to disagree or do you just not like the person?
There are a lot of ways to disagree but really only 1 way to agree.
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OP killer build would include Ruin and NOED. Those 2 perks in combination is crazy strong on every killer. All you need to do it catch someone, camp them to force a gen rush, they die by the time end game comes around, then NOED the next person and camp them. Easy 2k at minimum, but chances are because survivors will make attempts to save you will get a lot of 4k's from it.
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@Dreamnomad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/452320#Comment_452320
@thesuicidefox There are a couple problems with your recommendation. The biggest of which is that it won't actually accomplish anything. A generator "speed limit" of sorts isn't an awful idea, but you are talking about something that is absurdly rare. This is your primary suggestion:
"if 3 gens pop too quickly (say all within 60 seconds of each other) it will cause all other gens to overheat and lose like 50% progress (total progress, so -40s basically)."
So let's play this scenario out shall we? I'm the killer. At the start of the game it takes me 45 seconds to locate a survivor. It takes me an additional 30 seconds to chase and down the survivor. 10 more seconds to pick up and put the survivor on the hook. As I start to walk away from the hooked survivor 3 gens pop almost simultaneously. What exactly does your suggestion do to slow the survivors down?
Maybe the generator that the survivor I chased worked on loses 20%ish progress? After all, the other 3 survivors haven't even had a chance to really start a new generator yet. They just finished theirs remember? So how does this even help? The answer is that it doesn't. Neither one of your recommendations would have any meaningful impact on the game.
Okay so like, the exact details of my idea need testing. Maybe it should be 2 gens at 30 seconds. Maybe it should completely regress all other gens. IDK. My point is that there needs to be limits to how fast gens can be done. NOTHING ELSE WILL WORK. Not second objectives, not forcing survivors to find a gas can, nothing else will work. All these other ideas do is screw over low tier survivors. High tier survivors will find ways to just rush these new objectives, and you end up not fixing the problem only making the game worse for players that don't even gen rush.
You need something targeted to the high tier survivors to slow down the game. If you don't specifically address that you're not fixing the problem. If you add these new objectives you are changing the fundamentals of the game, which is bad. The game has established dynamics already and if you mess with that you just screw up the game. You don't want to add MORE mechanics because it just over saturates the game with a bunch of garbage dynamics that do nothing to actually solve the problem.
I have a few SWF groups I play with that are all top tier survivors, including myself. We can finish all 5 gens AND totems in under 4 minutes. Considering that totems are the closest analog to a second objective, that right there proves my point that any new objectives you throw into the mix will just get rushed at high levels and do nothing to actually slow down the game. You need an actual speed limiter if you want to accomplish that. Furthermore, a speed limiter would only affect groups such as mine, leaving low tier survivors or solos to have more or less the same experience as they do now.
You guys pushing for second objectives have this idea it will magically slow down the game, when it won't. Again 5 gens and totems in 4 minutes. If we didn't do the totems we could probably do it 30 seconds faster. That's literally all you will get out of adding new objectives. It won't fix anything.
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How is a new objective more oppressive then a time gate? At least with an additional objective the survivors still have an opportunity to rush it and be good at it. A time gate is punishing those who are good at the game. Trying to implement a system that would punish skilled survivors and not effect unskilled survivors kind of defeats the purpose of the game.
Because a time gate only affects the top tier survivors that would otherwise be doing gens very fast. Low tier survivors (or survivors that pace the gens) won't have to worry about time gates.
What's oppressive about a second objective is that it disproportionately affects top tier and low tier survivors. Low tier survs will be hit very hard while high tier survs will still rush objectives. You end up hurting survivors that don't gen rush while only making it mildly more difficult for ones that do.
Case and point Ruin. Ruin is the closest thing we have to a second objective. Against low tier survivors, Ruin completely destroys their ability to do gens. Against high tier survivors it does so little you might as well not even use it. This is how second objectives would play out.
Low tier survivors already have a very steep learning curve, so to ask them to do MORE stuff just makes that worse.
The only reasonable way to stop gen rush is to put in checks to make sure you can't do gens super fast. If gen rushing isn't possible then it's not a problem anymore.
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Your game play is not private in an online multiplayer game. Sorry.
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@TheShape78 said:
Based on what you've said, I think you're misunderstanding the down vote button. It's not meant to spread negativity, it's just there if you want to disagree with someone without replying with a harsh comment...which IS spreading negativity. If anything, the down vote button, if used correctly, should REDUCE negativity, because users now have a way to show they disagree without starting up an argument of who's right or wrong.
Except that this place is a toxic cesspool and vote down will ultimately be used to spread negativity.
There is nothing stopping someone from both vote down AND replying with a harsh comment. Basically we are just doubling up on the negativity.
Also you shouldn't just be able to disagree without context. If you disagree with someone you should need to make a case why. If you agree, however, you don't need context.
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@Vlieger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/453520#Comment_453520
Either way the system would be punishing survivors for doing well, which is never good game design. Good game design would be to extend the length of a match fluidly and make it fun for both sides. Any generic time gate system is not fluid and very predictable.
Adding another objective like the one I originally suggested in this thread would be a way to extend the match, give both sides something to do during that extra time, and would be dynamic to how well either side does. Not just some system that says "the game has to last at least this long"
Like I told you, adding a new objective is too oppressive to survivors. Low rank survivors will be hurt and high rank survivors will barely be phased. It won't make a difference. Time gates are the ONLY way to actually slow down the game such that only the best survivors are affected.
There is nothing wrong with making it so that you can't blaze through gens super fast. If 3 gens pop, and all other gens regress, there's nothing actually stopping the survivors from continuing to rush gens. They can still do it, there is no need to 99 a gen and sit around and wait. You are wasting time, it would still be more effective to just finish the gens when you can finish them. Only if you do them too fast you can potentially lose time on other gens. That means in order to do them most efficiently you need to finish gens at a steady pace instead of 2-3 at a time. It's the only way to slow down the game at high ranks without completely screwing over low ranks.
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I agree. There is no point to the vote down it just let's people be toxic and will get abused. I don't get why we can't just have vote up and leave it at that. We don't need anything else.
If you disagree with someone you should have to comment on it.
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@Vlieger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/453396#Comment_453396
If the system was in place that you were suggesting and I am playing survivor and working on a gen, I see a gen just popped and know I will be penalized for finishing my gen, I would 99 it. Go hide nearby, if killer kicks it I would go tap it. Then go pop it once I am no longer penalized for doing so.
Exciting gameplay. Yes it would happen if that was the objective. What else are the survivors supposed to do during the time they have to wait to pop a gen? You see the issue with adding a generic time gate? There is nothing for one side to do during that time other than hide and wait for the next time gate.
Then you are wasting time and the killer is gaining time. You would be better served going to find a new gen to work on if that's your plan.
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@Vlieger said:
@thesuicidefox The problem with your idea is there is nothing stopping survivors from 99ing all gens, then just popping them within the "cooldown" constraints. Wouldn't add much time to the game unfortunately.
If you 99 gens then killer can kick them.
If you pop 3 quick then it regresses all the others.
So yes it adds time. No survivors will 99 every gen on the map. Maybe 2 at most but you are talking about something that doesn't and wouldn't happen IRL.
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@GrootDude said:
@Claudette_Baguette it always shows through walls on console.
Uhhh no? I'm on Xbox and you can't see the red stain through most walls. Some walls you can but not to the extent it happens on PC.
And OP I agree, walls should block the red stain even on the lowest settings.
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I would like the devs to enable m/kb support on console. Xbox already allows it but no devs have yet to actually make it work for their games. You can only do menu stuff with a keyboard.
However even if they do that, PC has an advantage in frame rate. Xbox has a serious frame rate issue, and I have Xbox One X which can run Gears 4 in 4k at 60fps so it's definitely the game and not the platform. It can be rough as survivor because any sort of notification event will cause frame drops. It's even worse as killer, since you can get serious frame drops when you get the "Survivor Found" notification or Bloodlust and such. 90% of the time I miss an attack it's because of frame rates. Fix this and add m/kb support and crossplay would be a viable option.
However I don't see it happening specifically because of Sony. MS and Nintendo would be fine with it I'm sure, but if you don't have EVERYONE on board then there is no point to doing it.
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I don't care for it only because I would probably never use this feature. Xbox already has a lot of "community" stuff attached to it, and I know almost everyone that plays this game at red ranks (to the point I can't play a game as survivor or killer without seeing someone I know). And I know a big group of them have a DBD Facebook group that is basically a Killer Clan/Survivor Clan.
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Pikachu skin.
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Regardless of what we want, it won't happen. Sony is notorious for not allowing crossplay, and you can't have crossplay between just 3 of 4 platforms. It would be all or nothing.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@thesuicidefox "More objectives won't work. Survivors will just find a way to rush that too."
Survivors will find a way to efficiently handle a 2nd objective, but the objective still needs to be done and doing so will consume time.
If you give survivors more work and don't change anything for the killer, it will lead to the killer having more time for chasing survivors.
My point is it won't consume enough time to significantly effect top tier survivors, which is where the problem is in the first place. All you do with a second objective is slow down bad survivors, who don't rush gens anyway. The gain isn't worth completely screwing over bad survivors.
You need something specific to target the good survivors if you want to have a positive impact on the game.
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Self Care and Adrenaline hard counter Freddy.
Spine Chill or Premonition can help you hide from him.
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I use Ruin at higher ranks on most killers just so I can have a more chill game. It's like almost mandatory even though very VERY good survivors aren't even phased by it.
@Decarcassor PGTW is a very strong perk on certain killers. Specifically Billy, Nurse and Spirit because they can hook someone, see you on a gen and get there quickly to kick it. Not as good as Ruin no, but it can be really good sometimes. But I will say it's better than Overcharge because it actually adds time to survivors. Overcharge doesn't add time and if they are good at skill checks it's worthless. PGTW has tangible effects.
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@megaweenieman said:
It increase your chances of kobeing and of finding rarer items in chesticles
IIRC the devs said Luck does not affect chests. It should though.
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What really needs to happen is there needs to be a cap to how fast a gen can be done. A gen should NEVER be finished faster than 50 seconds. NEVER. Doesn't matter how many survivors are on it or if they have toolboxes or not. The gen should NEVER get done faster than 50 seconds.
Next there needs to be some sort of buffer to prevent multiple gens from popping all at once. Something like, if 3 gens pop too quickly (say all within 60 seconds of each other) it will cause all other gens to overheat and lose like 50% progress (total progress, so -40s basically). This forces survivors to pace the gens at least for the start.
Doing these 2 things will greatly slow down the game at higher ranks where it is needed, but won't negatively affect low ranks because they simply won't ever meet the cap for gen speed and/or they won't be popping gens super fast to overheat them.
More objectives won't work. Survivors will just find a way to rush that too. You end up with a situation where you seriously punish low rank survivors, and only get a net gain of like 30 seconds at high ranks. Finding parts is dumb too because sometimes that isn't an option. Sometimes you NEED to finish the gen now and not later.
There simply needs to be limits to how fast gens can go. This would only affect high rank survivors that blow through gens super fast. Anything else you do will just hurt the low rank survivors.
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So basically you get a 5th perk slot but it's only that character's teachables?
This would make Claud and Billy even stronger than they are now. Claud gets free SC and Billy gets free Enduring. Also Meg gets free Adren, Ash gets free MoM, Lori gets free DS, Nurse gets free NC.
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Anyone that plays Doc, I would fry their hardware.
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@FSB75 Remove ranks and you will just got a bunch of instances where a rank 1 is against a rank 20 and it will be a mess.
Ranks serve a purpose. Despite what people say, rank DOES mean something. If you are red rank, especially after the most recent changes, then you definitely know how to play the game. You might not be the best player but you will crush any newbie you come across.
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What are the most used add-ons for each killer?
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What bothers me is all the pistols are supposed to be connected to the same crank shaft. Yet they move independently. Whoever did the animation for the gens doesn't know how an engine works.
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Lava red.
Red hot.
Lava hot.
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Scratch marks are really hard to see on this map too.
And it affects survivors too. You can't see where others get downed or hooked sometimes.
Devs need to fix the map, though honestly it would be cool if something like fog affected aura reading in a similar way instead of just flat out making it harder to see.
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Kate
Spirit. Also Plague and Trapper.
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@McCree Yes it does. When you unhooked someone and MYC procs your character screams. It's how you can tell killer has MYC if you aren't the one making the save.
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The exit gate switch should regress if survivors stop interacting with it.
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Adren, Balanced Landing, Calm Spirit.
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I've only watched but here's my take...
-Increase EGC timer to 4 minutes flat, no adjusting if a player is down/hooked.
-Bell should ring every minute.
-Increase gate open time back to 20 seconds.
-Remember Me tokens are 4 seconds each and stack up to 3/4/5 tokens (20 seconds).
-If Pig uses an RBT during EGC (or if an RBT is otherwise active during EGC) it pauses the EGC timer 10 seconds before the final bell (1 minute). EGC timer restarts when RBT is removed or survivor dies/escapes. Reset EGC timer to 1 minute mark if there was less than 1 minute left.
-RBT timer stops when in a chase and starts again once the chase has ended AND the survivor has left the Pig's TR.
-If killer closed the hatch to trigger EGC it will re-open on the last bell ring for 10 seconds, after which Killer can close it again.
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A friend said he "will mori every mother [F word] that uses the puppet just because it hides a key".
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I don't like that the gate opens faster now. Maybe if the EGC timer was extended but then the gate timer extended and Remember Me put to max 20 seconds extra? That would be more reasonable.
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The more logical thing to do for the Pig would be to STOP the EGC timer if an RBT is in play while preventing the Pig from also closing the hatch. The game becomes more like it would be normally, where survivors have as much time as they want except the guy with the trap, who has to remove a trap to escape or take hatch.
Then maybe to avoid fringe cases where Pig puts a trap on with 5 seconds left in EGC so the moment the guy takes the trap off they die, it could just reset the EGC timer to 1 minute or something.
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Why change the Pig's RBT timer to stop while in her terror radius?
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@Hex_Flex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437310#Comment_437310
If the killer has acquired 6 stacks of remember me, AND found the hatch before the last survivor, does he not deserve the 4k?
No because you still didn't catch the last survivor. But now they are in a position where it's impossible to win because they can't open a door and will die in a time limit. Why do you think you deserve anything? You could have gotten all your RM stacks because the obsession got farmed, or was afk or something. You coulda found hatch because it just spawns next to you when the third survivor is killed.
Survivors should be given a fair chance to escape, and the way current RM works would be OP. Like I said, it was nerfed too much, and the base door time change I don't like, but RM did need a nerf for EGC.
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This is a good change, but not mentioned in the patch notes.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437226#Comment_437226
The fact that they don't tick down when the survivor is within the Pig's terror radius now?
On maps like The Game or other smaller maps, that's a huge nerf.
I've legit only been killed once by a RBT before as a survivor and that was with the whole tampered timer & box of gears combo after getting the worst RNG on the Jigsaw boxes on pre-changed Swamp.
I agree that part I don't like. But you do have the ability to crouch and it hides your TR which means they will tick down.
I think a more reasonable solution would be that it stop ticking when a chase starts, and ends when both the chase ends and the survivor is out of the Pig's TR. Then if you just enter her TR it keeps going, but if you can get a chase started you have more wiggle room to evade her without worrying about the RBT.
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@TheBig_BadPig said:
There was no point to change Remember Me. The collapse starts once a gate is OPENED, and Remember Me only works on the speed of OPENING the gates. Once a gate is opened Remember Me no longer has a use in the match, unless the survivors want to open the other door. This was a stupid nerf.
Killer can trigger EGC by closing hatch though. So if you are the last one, and killer has full stacks of Remember Me, they can close the hatch and now it will take 1/3 the timer to open a gate by yourself. It'd be impossible to escape that.
I don't like the change to base gate open time though. And I think Remember Me got nerfed too much, something like 20 seconds woulda been better (4 each, you can earn up to 3/4/5).
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/437164#Comment_437164
There were several ways to nerf RBTs and make it worthy because of EGC.
Making her power literally do nothing while also nerfing it at all points of the game is not the way to go.
You can't use them after the gates are powered. That's literally the only downside now. How is that a nerf at all points of the game?
Just use them before end game. Simple. Pigs do this already. I was one of the few that would save my last trap but now I won't. Most of the time I didn't want to anyway I just did it to play safe. Now there is no reason so I will just use it like I should have.
But the fact you can still lock someone in the game with you (remember you can close hatch now) means that if you ever get 2 active traps you can get a guaranteed 2k, possible 3/4k if you do an end game Pig build now.
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@SailedSavage said:
Lol so If I get RBT'ed by pig all i have to do is use my key to unlock the hatch and escape before a gen is done? LOL what a Joke. I thought pig was already joke. This is just sad. Sorry to Pig mains out there. Guess you should pick up Meyers now.
You can already do this though???
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@[Deleted User] said:
"Basically RBT will work the same"
Except being completely useless in end game as they will literally do nothing but be a fashionable hat for the survivor.
It just means you have to put them on before end game. Most Pigs use them before end game anyway. I used to keep one for end game just because but now I will be aiming to put it on before the last gen pops.
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Quitality
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Pretty sure you should not be talking about drugs on the forums.
EDIT: Oh you said math.
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Apples are her best add-ons (start with 1 Corrupt fountain). Her biggest counter play is to stay sick/Broken for as long as possible, do gens, then use a fountain nearer the end of the game. Apples stop that from being an option because the moment everyone is sick you take the Corrupt fountain and FORCE them to use more fountains. If they don't they are easy to catch with Corrupt. Thanatophobia is good for this too, because if they decide to never use fountains then the game slows down. Both of her pink add-ons also help with this, but the Iridescent Seal is more powerful IMO. After that her best add-ons are effectiveness and Severed Toe (increases rate at which they become sick when performing actions/interactis). I also find tablets (increase Corrupt duration) to be good picks sometimes. But you will usually want to run 1 apple just to force survivors to take fountains.
She has to deal with loops so if you are having trouble do either Brutal Strength or Enduring/Spirit Fury. BS is good for her because most survivors drop the pallet early if they are Broken. It also helps with gens, since when she pukes on a gen it's like kicking it twice this saves time there. E/SF is the stronger option but is a combo instead of 1 perk. Bambo is also not bad for her.
For tactics, you want to get people sick. This means puke on EVERYTHING. If you use a green apple it adds 5 seconds to the infection time, for a max of 40 seconds. If you see a gen running, kick it, and puke on it. It survivors touch it they get sick, you can see this, and you know where they are. It's a bit like a mini-Surveillance. If they don't and wait, well that's 40 seconds of regression you just got. Also puke on lockers, pallets, and windows as you approach an area so if a survivor uses them they get sick.
As for puking on survivors, I find it better to actually just spray them quick to get them sick, then m1 them down like other killers. If they lead you on a long chase wait until they are Broken before finding someone new. You want this survivor to use a fountain and they might not if they aren't Broken yet. The only time I try to inflict Broken directly before I hit a survivor is if I'm in a really good spot to get them or I have effectiveness add-ons.
I've been using Whispers to great effect on her. If you see Whispers proc just start puking on everything. Gens, lockers, chests, totems. Anything you walk past as you search the area. I find that having a 32m terror radius and being tall AF makes it easy to hide from you, which Whispers counters. People say M&A but I honestly don't care for that perk on her. I guess if you play M&A Billy or something you might like it but I find Whispers more helpful.
Think ahead. If you see a Corrupt fountain take note of what's around it and what survivors are doing. Sometimes you want to save them for when you are in a chase or something, so you need to use them tactically. If you get someone in the basement it's usually a good idea to go grab a fountain quickly because Corrupt is like a LF chainsaw mixed with Huntress hatchets. You can down everyone quickly, even if they have BT/MOM and such.
Last thing I wanna say is don't always charge purge all the way. Vile or Corrupt. Most of the time you can charge it a little bit and just spray them quickly. You want to avoid charging it to full in a chase because it makes you slow and you will never catch them with the whole thing at a loop.