thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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IMO they should just make all tiers of Discordance 10 seconds and then add some new extremely minor effective that is tiered. Maybe even some kind of BP bonus for kicking gens or something.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073695#Comment_1073695
I agree about toolboxes. They aren’t needed, gen speeds dont feel slow enough for them.
As for survivors grouping up I can see your point about the times, I often bring Discordance for this reason but the problem with increasing gen times for multiple survivors is that it will encourage people to spread out on gens which isn’t good for killer and it removes the ability to disrupt multiple survivors at once.
You still benefit from grouping up on the gens, it's just not like half the time with just 2 people. You'd need all 4 survivors to make it half the time. Survivors would still group up on a gen if it means it can get done in about 60 seconds.
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The only issues I see with gen times are toolboxes and grouping up.
Toolboxes should be reworked to affect great skill checks and NOT increase repair speed. Maybe the Engineer's toolbox can increase repair time SLIGHTLY but it should be minimal like 8% or something.
Grouping up on gens is also WAY too strong. The fact that just 2 survivors almost cut the repair time in half is insane. It should go 80s - 60s - 50s - 40s for 1-2-3-4 survivors respectively.
Finally there should be a cap to repair speed. No matter how many survivors or buffs there are, you should NEVER be able to finish a gen faster than 40 seconds. NEVER. That should be the absolute maximum speed it can be done, with the exception of great skill checks adding more progress.
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Best perk for Spirit is Stridor. Some people say "oh you don't need it if you are a good Spirit" to which I respond "you haven't chased a survivor with Iron Will that actually KNOWS how to run from a Spirit". If they did they would see how important Stridor is. It's not there for every survivor. It's there for very SPECIFIC survivors that will run you around the map or lose you completely. These survivors are rare, majority of survivors go full throttle potato against Spirit so you will feel like most chases are a cake walk. But trust me when I say there are survivors out there that do not potato against Spirit and these are the ones you really need to catch quickly.
You need good tracking skills to play Spirit. Learn how to track survivors by any means necessary. Scratches. Blood. Crows. Grass. Footsteps. Cries of pain. Know survivors' pathing. If you hook a survivor and see another on BBQ moving in some direction, you need to know where they will path to intercept them. And you need to be aware that they might try to trick you and know other paths they would take. I've had people call me a hacker (on Xbox BTW LOL) because I just KNEW where the survivors were going and the paths they were taking.
Literally all her add-ons are good. Pick any combination of green add-ons and you should be able to take on most groups. However, speed and duration add-ons are the best of the best. MDR is her strongest add-on, but it removes scratches so you will need to be experienced with tracking as I mention above. Charge add-ons are very good because you can be super aggressive in a chase. Arguably, her worst add-ons are passsive phasing (Juniper/Cherry Blossom) but even these add-ons have value against good loopers. If you use one of these you can beat most safe loops without even needing to use your power. Father's Glasses are also not super good, BUT if used as an anti-stealth tool they are very good. You'd probably want to combo it with Sloppy Butcher though, just to make it easier.
All standard good killer perks are good for her. Take your pick really.
A good starter build would be something like BBQ, Pop, Nurse's, Sloppy. That's a pretty basic Spirit build. If you really want to slow the game, go for Sloppy, Thana, Dying Light, Ruin (or a tracking perk of choice).
My current build is IMO the most overpowered build in the game. Stridor, Shadowborn, Ruin, Surveillance, MDR, Amulet. MDR + Amulet let's you cover SOOOOO much distance it's insane (almost 70m). Just these add-ons alone put your map pressure to god tier levels. Stridor/Shadow makes it almost impossible to hide from you in any situation. Ruin/Surv is an extremely potent combo and when you factor in that super crazy high map pressure it means you just need to phase near a gen to stop it, as survivors will start running when they hear the woosh, which then you see the gen turn white from Surv so you know they were there. And with Stridor/Shadow you WILL find them. I've run this build maybe 10 times by now, and every single game has been 4k 4/5 gen. I got a 5 gen perfect game on Rotten Fields, and a 4 gen basement party on Ormond. This build is insane. Only 1 group got to the gates and it is 100% my fault for chasing a Dwelf WAY longer than I should have. I couldn't help it, he was so whimsical and #########, I just had to chase him for 3 gens LOL. To his credit he did an absolute amazing job running from me. He just predicted everything perfectly. Still got a 3k though, and they never got the gates open (and yes I caught Dwelf). I could have even slugged for a 4k but I just let Kate hatch because they earned it. I didn't feel like dragging out the game any more.
@WRussoW said:
Stridor makes sounds TOO loud. Yes, you'll find survivors easier but you'll have much harder time tracking them correctly and downing them as well.
"Oh, this Claudette must be close! Let me just get this bi-.. What do you mean she's in another jungle gym?"
Only if you are not used to Stridor. Once you get familiar with it, you can pinpoint survivors from any distance where you can hear their cries of pain. I can literally track you through corn and structures just by sound because of Stridor.
You will also see scratches and hear footsteps, which you can use to nail down the survivors exact position.
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Honestly they both kind of suck for Spirit.
Distressing adds 26%, and Spirit's TR is 24m. That means her TR is only going to be 30.24m. Basically very little difference in the grand scheme of things.
M&A adds/subtracts 8m, so now in a chase her TR is 32m and out of a chase is 16m. But the chase ends very quickly once you start phasing. Chances are the survivor will end up outside of that 16m range, so the end result is they hear the woosh anyway.
If I had to pick one to use I would go with M&A just because having a 16m TR let's you sneak up on survivors very easily. You can get a cheeky free first hit then chase with your power.
But IMO as a Spirit main, you're not gonna get much out of either perk, and you only get something out of M&A if you avoid using your power as often as you should be.
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You perform actions at a base rate of 1 charge per second (c/s). Totems require 14 charges to destroy. At base this means it takes 14 seconds to destroy a totem.
Leader adds 0.25 c/s. Resil adds 0.09 c/s. Spine Chill adds 0.06 c/s.
To find out the timer you divide the number of charges required by c/s.
The math looks like this...
14/(1 + 0.25 + 0.09 + 0.06) = 10.
It would take exactly 10 seconds to do the totem. But it requires another survivor to give you Leader and for the killer to be looking in your direction the entire time.
@SunaIIanu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1055370#Comment_1055370
Are you sure that the system simply summates bonuses instead of applying them after each other?
Also, I'm pretty sure that 40% of 14 seconds are 5,6 seconds, so the totem would be cleansed in 8,4 seconds.
Buffs are additive. Debuffs are multiplicative. So yes, you just add the bonuses together.
@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1056640#Comment_1056640
That's correct yes, 40% of 14 is 5.6 seconds so the totem cleansing would be 8.4 seconds and not 10 seconds.
This is incorrect because you are not reducing the number of charges required, you are applying charges at a faster rate.
If we were to factor in TOTH, which reduces cleansing speed by 6% per totem (so 30% with all 5 totems) then the math looks like this...
14/((1 + 0.25 + 0.09 + 0.06)*(1-0.3)) = 14.29s
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@Okapi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1071968#Comment_1071968
That would be a huge buff for SWF. The issue with OoO in a SWF group is that the obsession can feed information to the other survivors and the killer can't do nothing to stop that besides tunneling the obsession into a quick death.
The last thing they need is even more opportunities for OoO.
Sorry but how?
Killer sees your aura with BBQ/Nurse's/etc, then you see their aura. No more seeing their aura on demand. It's so you can avoid detection and pick out what aura perks they have, not keep permanent tabs on the killer.
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@Nos37 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1071899#Comment_1071899
If other survivors are aware that I have Borrowed Time while I'm on the hook, it turns into a hook-rush race to get the free and safe rescue points, leading me to be unhooked sooner than I would like. Keep that info private.
Well if you do they wouldn't know you have it and wouldn't even attempt the save when they maybe should. This is the EXACT issue with DS sometimes. I get hate messages from survivors like "you should have just farmed me I have DS" and it's like I have no idea you have DS I'm not taking the risk.
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As much as I hate OOO, just rework it to be more fair.
It would be best if OOO reveals the killer's aura anytime they can see your aura. So if the killer has Nurse's Calling, when they see you healing you see them, maybe with an extra 0/1/2 seconds after they stop seeing your aura. IMO that would be WAY more fair because then it's like an anti-aura perk or at least something along the lines of Spine Chill/Prem where it's to alert you the killer can see you.
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You'd have to give some indication to other survivors you have it. Not a bad idea though.
However at this point I think it's better to leave it as is. It makes more sense for the rescuer to have it because they are the ones that want the safe rescue ensured.
The ONLY change I'd like to see for BT is that the icon flashes when you give someone BT, just because sometimes you might think you did when you didn't, and vice versa.
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070642#Comment_1070642
meant to specify at base
Still incorrect.
At base she can move a max distance of 35.2m.
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The value is volume not range. You will still hear cries of pain from the same distance but they will be louder/quieter than normal.
Also the values are additive not multiplicative. It is 100 - 100 + 50 = 50.
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@thefallenloser said:
spirit can only move at max 50 meters when using phase walk
Incorrect.
Yakuyoke Amulet and Katsumori Talisman let's her travel 63.8m.
Yakuyoke Amulet and Mother Daughter Ring let's her travel 69.19m.
Yakuyoke Amulet and Dirty Uwabaki let's her travel 59.84m.
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Why do notifications on console cause such serious frame drops? Xbox players have come to hate Sloppy Butcher because your screen will freeze for a solid 2 seconds when you get hit, which means you end up running into a wall or sometimes directly back into the killer. It's quite unfair. Doc is a giant walking frame drop even after his rework. PLEASE LOOK INTO THIS!
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@Hel24330 said:
It is easier for a survivor to 360 a killer on console. Can you explain why and do you have any plans to make it more fair?
I could answer this for you. It's because on a controller you have analog input, and your inputs can be in any direction. On a keyboard, you have a digital input and can only move in 8 cardinal directions. It's easier with a controller because you just spin the stick, where on a keyboard it's more complicated.
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It would actually be way easier and more effective to simply change the way skill checks work on generators.
1) Put a 2 charge-per-second cap to generator speed. No matter how many survivors, toolboxes, perks, etc., you can NEVER repair a gen faster than x2 speed basically. 40 seconds would be the absolute fastest you could do a gen barring great skill checks (see #3/4).
2) Rework charges per second of individual survivors when they group up on a gen. Right now it goes 80s - 44s - 33s - 28s. The charges per second should be adjusted so that, at base, the times would be 80s - 60s - 50s - 40s.
3) Remove great skill check zones from repair actions until 2 gens are done or a survivor is hooked. Let's call this the "opening phase" of the game.
4) Toolboxes no longer increase repair speed. Instead toolboxes increase both the frequency of skill checks and the size of great skill check zones. Maybe they could also provide great skill check zones during the opening phase where they would normally be absent.
5) Rework toolbox add-ons to work with the new toolboxes. Either they increase frequency of skill checks or the size of great skill check zones. BNP should do both at the cost of reducing charges on the toolbox slightly (80 to 70 for example).
6) Rework some survivor/killer perks where the new system might not work right. For example, Unnerving Presence would both decrease the size of the skill check zones and removes great skill checks completely (unless they have a toolbox). Prove Thyself could give an extra 1% boost to great skill checks for all survivors repairing a gen within 8m of that survivor. Stuff like that.
IMO doing this would benefit the game WAY more. Scott's idea is nice but I don't see it making a big impact in the long term. The fact it ends so easily with just a chase starting makes me thing there would be serious cheese going on somewhere. I mean just imagine as killer walking through corn, a survivor runs in front of you where you can't see, starts a chase, and now gens can go at normal pace while you lose the survivor in the corn. IDK I just see a lot of holes in the idea.
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If you play mean as killer, it almost shouldn't matter what your build is, you can 4k.
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Yes I agree. Let's make it always come off at the second box. That seems fair.
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@toxicmegg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1060978#Comment_1060978
i know im just memeing around. but seriously, i think trapper should be higher, he's proven not to be so bad.
Well it's the same thing as with Clown or Wraith. He can be a good killer but it doesn't make him stronger than the killers above him, IMO.
Look at it this way, if you had to play a game without perks/add-ons who would do best? Okay now with perks/add-ons? Okay now with perks/add-ons against a SWF? You have to ask would this killer win in this situation and the more the answer to those questions are YES the higher that killer would be on the tier list.
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A tier list is relative potential strength. In other words it is a ranking of the power of a character compared to another character compared to another character, et al.
Don't look at it as if I'm saying "Clown isn't a viable killer".
Instead look at it like "[Every killer above Clown] is measurably stronger than Clown and [every killer below Clown] is measurably weaker than Clown".
As for why I place Freddy so high, I really think you guys are sleeping on him (pun intended). He is an INSANELY strong killer that is actually not to hard to pick up an play. He has great map pressure and chase potential OUTSIDE of perks/add-ons. When you factor in those things he becomes every STRONGER.
Sloppy, Thana, Dying Light, Ruin/Pop, Swing Chains, Jump Rope. This build will crush pretty much any group of survivors. They will be so slowed down by everything that you have a ton of time, hence why it is called Forever Freddy
{By Calvin Klein}. This build would be strong on a lot of killers, but FREDDY especially gets the most use out of it because he can teleport to gens and end chases quickly with snares.And yes, the right build on Wraith is strong too, but 1) it's not going to be stronger than Forever Freddy, and 2) even if it WERE Forever Freddy is not Freddy's only viable strong build. He has several options, where Wraith is pretty much locked into a single viable option.
You guys need to see this as not a list of who can get 4k's and who can't. It's a comparison of all killers. Inherently some will be stronger than others, and you need to factor in more than just the best build. Baseline strength matters, range of builds matter, easy of use matters, STATS matter. Which the stats say Freddy and Spirit have the highest kill rates which makes sense because they are both VERY STRONG killers. And yes "don't draw conclusions" but when these 2 killers are already considered among the best by many and then have the kill rates to back it up then you can infer some stuff from that.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1058851#Comment_1058851
You forgot the Red Head's Pinky Finger.
It's actually Tattoo's Middle Finger.
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But I'm not asuppose to be alone.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1059129#Comment_1059129
I would say she's better then Oni and Plague by far. Well Oni is debatable just because he's like her and takes time for set up, but I say she outclasses Plague by a reasonable amount. Plague is entirely based on survivors knowledge of counters and looping. If they cleanse too early they have a high chance to fail while if they cleanse too late the same is also a thing.
Hag is currently bugged beyond belief and the Dev's refuse to acknowledge it going so far as to tell some Hag mains "that is how she has always been" when in fact she has not.
Glad to see your playing Pig though. Like I said though her real power is the versatility she actually has. While inherently not as powerful as some of the killers you listed she can do a significant amount of things many others can't. Her power lies in the versatility not in raw output of damage.
Plague with Thana, Black Incense, and apples can be a very powerful killer.
The problem I see with Pig as compared to Oni or Plague is that her power is limited and RNG based. Her stealth isn't nearly as good as GF or Myers. Traps can help her secure kills or delay the game but it's not really up to her.
Oni and Plague build up their power and both get insanely powerful tools when their power is full. Quite a lot like Myers, but unlike Myers they don't have stealth which is why I put him above them both.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1058846#Comment_1058846
As a killer main (stopped playing survivors due to queues), it's not that, I just find it annoying when a 2K depips you. The ranking system should be based on hooks and sacrifices, nothing else because the other emblems add less weight to your Devout (your primary objective). 😁
Yea but they also changed Gatekeeper which was a big reason you didn't pip previously.
Now you can just hold down a 3 gen and still get Iri gatekeeper if you did it for 9 minutes. You don't need to care about how many or which individual gens get done, just delay the gates as long as you can.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1058889#Comment_1058889
Infinite Myers doesn’t scare me oddly, generally you only have 2 gens left when he gets his power and he’s still loopable
Infinite EW3 and Infectious on Myers is very strong especially in a 3/4 gen situation. He could snowball very quickly.
@DocFabron said:
Excuse me, but why in the Sam Hill is Doc, Plague, and Ghostface behind Huntress? They're lovely killing machines!
Yes but Huntress is a better killing machine.
You guys have to consider the absolute BEST players playing the absolute BEST builds and that's the killer's potential. That's what a tier list is effectively, one characters potential versus another.
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@johnmwarner said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1058835#Comment_1058835
Wraith with his speed can pressure gens better than most killers, toss on a speed addon and it’s even better.
If I had money riding on it I would take him over Clown, trapper, legion and Myers for sure
If Myers has infinite EW3 that pretty much puts him way above Wraith in terms of chase potential and map pressure. His strongest build is going to be better than Wraiths.
Like I'm not saying Wraith is a bad killer with my tier list, I'm saying he is quantitatively weaker than all the killers above him.
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NOED and Ebony? Someone was hungry.
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Most survivor groups are potatoes when it comes to gen position. They just see a gen and start doing it. A lot of times they do the farthest gens first. Now the last 5 gens are very close to each other and you can defend them better.
Also new Ruin is not as bad as is made out to be. It's quite effective on killers that can scramble survivors. It's made more effective with Surveillance (which is a good perk on its own too).
It's because too many killers think they should 4k 5gen every game thanks to old Ruin. They can't seem to accept SOME GENS get done. It's just a fact of life.
If you play smart you can force survivors into a 3 gen. You do this as most killers by the time you get 1 kill, you will win the game.
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@johnmwarner said:
Not a lot I dispute except I think Warith is higher, not top 3 like Tru had him but he’s strong if played correctly with almost any addons
Mechanically though he has nothing to pressure survivors with.
If you took the absolute STRONGEST build for every killer, he would still be about there because every killer above him has a much stronger build they can do.
Like anything Wraith has that makes him stronger, Freddy and Spirit have to make them damn near unbeatable.
Tier lists are about relative strength between characters.
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@hex_genrush said:
Face camper bubba gets 2 killer per game so he’s pretty balanced imo
Tier list isn't about balance it's about effectiveness.
If you consider the best player ever playing all these killers which would see the most success and which the least. It's a ranking of the killer's strength versus another killer's.
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No Mither doesn't need a rework. It needs QOL, like no injured music and maybe some kind of increase to BP earnings. But the entire point of the perk is you are always injured (thus can take advantage of "always injured" text or negate anti-heal builds) and you can never be slugged, forcing the killer to pick you up all the time. It serves a very specific and needed purpose in the game, it doesn't need a rework.
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Nurse, Spirit, Freddy.
Everyone else is at least a complete step below these 3.
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"Ummm, Big Bird... 3 is number." -Krimit the Frog
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Keep the faster locker open/reload.
Ditch Exposed and notification bubble.
Puts Killer Instinct on a survivor for 15s.
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EDIT: OOPS wrong post
I would actually remove Object Of Obsession and Insidious.
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@Deadeye said:
Because a missing survivor is already debuff enough. That's why "the new meta" slowdown perk DL does not affect the obsession at all and looses all stacks when the obsession dies.
EDIT: in addition, this would not be a QOL change, it would be a buff
You don't lose stacks, the perk just deactivates. If you get hit by DS it will activate again.
Furtive is the only perk where you lose stacks if the obsession dies.
@Kagari_Leha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1050440#Comment_1050440
sorry to tell you but Dying Light is pretty awful, go on Pop/Corrupt if you dont want to play New Ruin
It's actually not especially when combined with Thana, Pop, or new Ruin.
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I like it but they need to fix the hair. It looks like dog tails and not like hair.
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Does mori count as a head rub?
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No. Currently there is nothing that makes you lift the pallet faster. It's always 4 seconds.
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40 seconds to find someone with Whispers is a very long time. Plus the fact they did 4 gens in 2 minutes is a bit of a red flag that you never even looked near gens.
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Be near other survivors. When Whispers goes off the killer has no idea how many are nearby just that someone IS nearby.
Stay out of heartbeat range. If the killer always seems to have you inside their heartbeat then they likely have Whispers.
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I like playing her on Xbox. The only things that annoy me are whiffs that look like they should hit, Rotten Fields, and Sanctum.
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Forgetting to have selected a new challenge.
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@Xerge said:
Btw, It's hard to define "unbeatable" because no one is sure what to consider a win in this game.
I define it in the OP as escaping the build. I would say something is unbeatable if more than 99% of survivors die to it. That less than 1% would account for flukes, like maybe a survivor DC's to give hatch or they find a key randomly in a chest. But in terms of this thread, it's a build that you can't escape from if it were played perfectly.
Iri Head is an example of what could be an unbeatable build. While yes, you can escape this (I have), if the person playing killer is good enough it's basically impossible to escape. Like imagine Umbra or @ScottJund using this add-on as Huntress. No one would escape them because they don't miss much if at all.
We have to assume that the player is at the highest possible skill level for that particular killer. This is all theoretical. The old Freddy build I mention above had 0 survivors escape ever. Prior to "finalizing" the build, I had exactly 3 from a 4 man SWF escape, but the build wasn't in what I would consider an "unbeatable" state then so I don't really count it (I was just using Dying Light with a mori on old Freddy). But even in an unbeatable state, if I made a mistake I could lose with that build.
Old omega blink Nurse is another example of something that is unbeatable. If played perfectly there is literally 0 chance for escape outside of pure luck with keys/hatch.
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Chasing a magical Dwelf like a puppy.
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Honestly it should just remove the whiff penalty and let you whiff as much as you want.
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Yes it's pretty sweet. And if Ruin goes Surveillance is not a bad perk to have to track survivors.
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@Lucama said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1036913#Comment_1036913
No, because if you play gen defense you cannot go for a chase, so you ain't killing anyone, and you just slowly bleed out and lose the game if they have 3 or 4 people, or they slowly bleed out and lose the game if less.
Actually new Ruin allows you to chase. Just push them off the gen and chase someone. The gen regresses on its own.
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@Lucama said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1036105#Comment_1036105
I'd honestly rather play basement bubba than gen keeper. Gen keeper is such a tedious and annoying playstyle, as much as I hate having the survs go through 5 gens in 5 minutes, I also don't want 30 minute games where I'm hounding survivors away from gens.
Gen keeper?
LOL you mean killer?
