pseudechis
pseudechis
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722589#Comment_2722589
I think you're taking my words out of context.
My point was of course, little in life is guaranteed.
However, you can stack the odds towards a certain outcome.
And if that outcome is a 75% loss rate, then who would want to play that role? As killer, where is the challenge with a kill rate almost guaranteeing a 3k? Would that not get boring?
And as you know with the law of averages, if great players are surviving 50% of the time, casuals would rarely be getting out.
And like it or not, new killer characters bring in new killers, rarely do they bring in new survivors
Yeah sorry that sounded aggressive I didn't mean it to but tone is often lost in text.
You make a fair point and I agree it makes sense in a PVP setting, I just want a better horror experience which is kind of diluted by the PVP balance.
Over performing killers would create that experience and make survivor more interesting in my opinion. I don't think its a mad idea to balance more skewed around killer for that reason but people often jump down the throats of folks who suggest it. Its a suggestion not without merit though that's only really undermined by the expectation of a fair and balanced PVP experience.
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Its good in chase not sure I could listen to it while working.
That said I do have the original sultry acoustic guitar riff from the main menu on my play list.
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It seems odd to announce something in the mid chapter update that isn't implemented as part of the mid chapter update.
It feels like this one is "here is a bunch of stuff we are planning and some perk/addon changes."
I mean the sbmm changes are a step in the right direction but when will they be implemented?
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@RekLaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2733399#Comment_2733399
Okay you play killer right. Go to killer and you’ll notice he has a power. Now I want you to go to survivor and then look what the power slot is replaced with. Yea. It’s replaced with items. Items make a big difference but y’all can put a stop to that with ONE perk.
For one perk it can give a bit of value because it can counter 4 items but there are stronger perks out there that are more game impactful and better perks to run. But that's not he topic being discussed... the topic at hand is "is franklins toxic?" no its just a perk that counters items.
People have already listed the things you can do when the killer runs franklins so I won't bother again, give em a try. Don't even bring an item and roll the dice with chests, its all the fun of gambling with no real initial cost if losing your item is that big of a deal for you.
My favorite post is the one about you losing the flashlight and it being fun ruining because you didn't get to use it as you intended. BOO HOO, that's a you problem not a franklin's problem.
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This is probably a worthless bait post but man this community does my head in.
No perk is toxic.
The ruins my fun argument is largely BS.
The term toxic has been so misused by the DBD player base that it has lost all meaning. Basically anything in game even slightly challenging, or different, or hard to adapt to is somehow a toxic attack on people and their fun its completely ridiculous.
Toxicity is abusing other players, griefing as defined by BHVR, cheating, imposing your game expectation on others and denigrating people for not following it, taking it to seriously then having a meltdown in an effort to ruin others fun, sore losers, bad winners that sort of thing.
Survivors can bring items, items can be strong and useful, franklins counters items directly its a game mechanic nothing more.
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I'm not sure what your point is, are you are saying they are boring to face because they are weak but also complaining that they were buffed?
I'd say its more exciting to face scary killers who can insta down you, pop out of nowhere, don't have a terror radius or red stain, mori you.
Unpredictable scary killers with powerful abilites real boogey men and women.
Perma T3 tombstone Myers is a great example (both iri addons), a slow burn game where you are stalked for most of it and once he gets his power bam you gotta run for your life. Great fun where the goal isn't to loop endlessly but to break line of sight as efficiently as possible.
Scratched mirror Myers on an indoor map, where is he? who know's and he can see you through walls so its real boogeyman look over your shoulder while working on a gen/totem kind of stuff. Makes for a great game. not iri but great stealth game.
Silent bell wall hack wraith oh man wraith with real stealth and tracking can be terrifying.
Old whirling death iri head huntress with the purple belt addon 3x insta down hatchets was terrfiying, but they nerfed it :(
Same goes for insta down clown, chases are tense when they can end in one health state.
I wish more things left you vulnerable or hid the killer as it makes for far more intense survivor games than the typical loop - pallet - repeat plays.
Maybe an addon where if you stepped in a trapper trap it would hide his terror radius for X amount of time.
I also agree that iri addons should be worth their cost by either changing a killer into a more powerful form or changing up how they play. The easiest way to make killers more powerful is to either let them remove health states for free via exposed or make them hidden via undetectable. Its no surpise a lot of the addons do this.
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@CyberDragoon656 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2731179#Comment_2731179
They are trying to murder survivors. Why is there an honor code for this? Lol
exactly.
I hate it when I get brutally murdered impolitely! The nerve of it, why I never!
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Leatherface is an iconic slasher film character and belongs in DBD, he shouldn't be deleted.
Watch the chase scene from the original texas chainsaw massacre, a game of DBD basically tries to recreate that scene. In fact the whole middle and end of that film could be a DBD game.
*Spoiler Alert*
LF downs the 1st with a hammer double tap, grabs and hooks a 2nd and camps it, before chasing a 3rd, mori'ing a 4th mid chase and then catching the 3rd leading into the overly drawn out ending where the last girl gets out while LF tantrums. Its just like a game of DBD.
Unfortunately in an effort to theme up his cosmetics by taking player faces they created a blackface scenario. While there was no intent to be offensive, it was riding a line too thin that it couldn't be abused by offensive members of the community.
Its probably easier to remove said cosmetics than police their use, so its no surprise they eventually removed them.
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I think if you feel personally attacked by this post you probably take the game too seriously.
Tis all in good fun.
I also agree with it because I want killers to be as nasty as possible as its on theme.
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While it is based on survival horror/slasher flicks and heavily promoted as such the game itself is PVP and players want a "balanced" game experience where survivors are just as viable as killers in completing their objective.
In early ranks when survivors are largely uncoordinated and basically get each other killed it can feel very much like a horror film where there is little hope of escape.
However once you have some map knowledge and coordination its not that hard to extend chases against even good killers and there are a lot of mechanics that will just save you time and again throughout the game. This waters down the horror experience as survivors get stronger 1v1 and very efficient at completing their objective generally reducing baseline killer threat.
I'm not saying its survivor sided, just easier to be efficient, especially when in a lot of games the pressure to win falls more heavily on the killer than the survivor team. This can make the game feel a little backwards and is a shame given the theme. (Just my opinion).
If you put a lot of time in you'll eventually be crushing survivors left and right, but often will have to sweat through your shirt to do it consistently and frequently use tactics described as "unfun" by your opponents as extolled by the unwritten rulebook of DBD play.
This unwritten rulebook creates player expectation that killers will always be polite and play fair giving everyone equal opportunity to escape and participate. Which is basically BS and code for sore loserism. Also if you bring strong builds to make yourself more threatening then you are just toxic apparently.
If you want to recreate the horror survival movie experience then you either need a really good killer or really bad survivors as when "balanced" the game is often more Scooby Doo than Halloween, which can be fun but doesn't "feel" right.
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Because its the only game where I can actually play as Myers, Leatherface and quasi Jason AKA trapper. (I know F13 exists but its so clunky by comparison).
Killer really is the main drawcard for this game, survivors are just cosmetic skins (with some sound variation) with the same mechanics. They are basically cosmetic pay walls for new perks.
It boggles the mind that survivor is as popular as it is given how generic the game experience can be as survivor.
The game is driven by which killer you play against. The sad thing is as the game gets more and more generalized, the same survivor play and meta is effective against pretty much the entire killer roster, making an even more generic game experience regardless of killer being faced.
Strong, varied and unpredictable killers make the game fun, interesting and different.
I'll continue to play both roles but killer is just more interesting.
A caveat to this is I'm kinda pro killer buffs, because threatening killers make survivor games more varied, interesting and as a result fun. From my perspective it benefits both sides more in terms of varied gameplay than survivor buffs often do.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721985#Comment_2721985
With Oni it's worse because with Hit Validation with DH and pallets you get the usual oh I hit but you dont get hurt but......Oni still gets the blood orbs so it raises the question is it a hit or is it not because it's getting old REALLY FAST
I don't play Oni much (mostly because I suck at him) but lately I've had a lot of Oni daily tasks. Yeah you get the hit, the cool down, the blood orbs but no reduced health state. It happens again and again too.
The constant false feedback only serves to exacerbate the negative perception of validation and should probably be a priority fix if this is the new norm. If its possible to fix that is.
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Look you did exactly what the situation called for if you wanted another kill or hook trades for BBQ stacks.
At one gen left, defending that hook, especially one as defendable as basement, is a good idea. Especially if no one else is on death hook or injured.
Basically a lot of players expect the game to be played a certain way, even ignoring any scenario where its advantageous to not adhere to the unwritten rulebook.
A lot of players will go further to abuse others for not playing how they want to play. This applies to both sides but is rather prevalent with survivors expecting escapes and what they see as "polite" or "fair" etc killer play.
Often when people use this argument what they are really asking for is their opponent to play less efficiently thus increasing the likelihood they can escape.
They dress it up in the name of fun and fairness but in essence its just refusal to accept some elements of the game and having a tantrum because they died. You can't fix them nor is it your job to do so, therefore just say GG and move on, ignore the salt, report the really bad offenders and try your best to not get to emotionally involved with the more negative and childish elements of this community.
Its only a game play it how you want to.
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I’d rather see qol improvements to the sbmm then just ignoring it.
remove it and replace it with what?
random match ups?
the old rank system? Which was borked in its own way and abusable by Smurf’s.
I’m not a fan of the current sbmm but I think it’s mostly due to being based on kills/escapes rather than contribution.
This was one element that worked in the old rank system if you did nothing all game but escaped you didn’t rank up. Contribution mattered.
Given that contribution is probably a better measure of “skill” than kills/escapes overall they should at least include it in the sbmm calculation.
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@Regulus47 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2729006#Comment_2729006
Sounds not very fair to stop a survivor from playing the game by facecamping them
This perception is the problem. You are still playing, being hooked is part of the game.
It’s an elimination game where you could be the first one eliminated via a few different means. This could happen early or late but that’s part of the risk.
Its really weird to me that people sign up for an elimination game and then get angry if they are eliminated. It’s even weirder that people expect the opponent to let them live for as long as possible to the detriment of their own game as part of some unwritten code in name of politeness/fairness.
You got to play the game you just died early for whatever reason as can happen in this game.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722401#Comment_2722401
Nothing guarantees anything, but a 3k average indicates much more loses for survivors than wins.
And, if you expect the majority of the player base to lose more than it wins, well longevity is not your main concern.
Simply put, regardless of individual biases, survivors don't want to be solely playthings for a 75% kill rate.
I'm pretty sure that's what the killer argument is now. No one wants to be a pawn.
New killers being released assures new players enter the game.
Survivors aren't showing up to face a new killer,killers are showing up to play a new killer. Behavior has a plan, and it's a classic business model. Create turnover and bring in new revenue.
The rest is moot and subjective.
balancing around a 75% kill rate doesn't guarentee survivor losses it just makes sure the power balance is 4v1 not 1v1.
You use a useless statement like "nothing guarantees anything" then base your whole argument on higher kill rate guaranteeing survivor losses and ruining the game, you are contradicting yourself.
I'm just making the point that the game should be balanced around 4v1, meaning you'd expect a high kill rate overall rather than a 50/50 kill rate. A 50/50 kill rate is balancing around 1v1 or 4v4 it doesn't work here and results in unbalanced games and backwards pressure meaning survivor is often less pressured to achieve their goal than killer is.
When you consider the theme that's pressure going in the wrong direction as killer should be the threatening pressence that justifies the 4v1 layout.
Balancing around an expected 75% kill rate is not a mad thing to suggest. Because if the game is balanced 4v1 you'd expect a higher kill rate overall due to the nature of assymetric play. 1 power role vs 4 lesser roles that are only competitive when they work together.
Business models, killer releases etc are irrelevant to the point the OP made. Which was "I don't understand why they want to balance around 50/50 escapes" I don't either given the theme of the game.
If they want a 50/50 balanced e-sports scenario there should be a defined win condition and equivalency on each team. Neither of those things exist here so it seems foolish to try and balance the game around that ill defined outcome. Then go and base the MMR system around it so that it borks match making even more.
It strikes me as an odd thing to do especially when they promote the game as big scary killer chasing fearful survivors in a slasher movie setting. I can't say I'm even remotely scared of the killer in the majority of my games and I think this equalized balancing probably has something to do with that. It just feels too safe 1v1 to be a 4v1 survival horror.
As I said thopugh its PVP and people value winning over game experience so they'll undermine game experience to make an equal chance of winning because that's what the crowd want. Even if it means the killer is a lesser threat to the survivors in doing so.
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@xxshyguyxx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722413#Comment_2722413
Thank you. I'm not the best by any means. But seeing 4 survivors working together like this so quickly and healing so fast and so often I can't help but ask what's the point?
I'm supposed to be a threat. If you can heal freely as often as you'd like and quickly, how could anyone ever be afraid of a killer I'm this game?
You put in all that work to hit someone, and they speed off like a rocket to heal for free. Lmao.
Once they heal, it defeats the entire chase and wasted all that time put in for it. "BING" another gen pops.
Yeah it is a bit of a copout jerk thing to say on the forums especially with how easy it is to reset killer pressure with fast healing.
I'd say the game in its current state doesn't really allow for spread damage hit and run type tactics anymore, its to easy to reset.
However the rest of the meta is chase extending 1v1 perks so its a bit damned if you do damned if you don't when committing or not committing to chases.
As far as understand it even 1 kill prevents your MMR going down so basically if you want to get back to a level where you aren't heavily outmatched you need to eat a lot of 4 escapes to do it. Kinda blows form a gameplay perspective.
Only thing to do is sink time into a killer to get more efficient at chases under the current meta and then work on burning out another player as early as possible. Take the game to a 3 on 1 and level the playing field ASAP.
Survivors will hate on you for tunneling but you don't see anyone giving you any breating room with the gens so why give breathing room with the kills.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722397#Comment_2722397
That's such a cop out at this point. You know the game is survivor sided. Just because the killer loses doesn't mean that they're bad or that the survivors were good.
I wouldn't say the game is survivor sided. But the MMR does a better job of matching functionally coordinated survivors together, so that one potato that used to get your hook/kill count rolling often isn't there.
It requires a far more focused and flawless game by the killer, which can be tiring even self defeating after multiple games in a row. I think that breeds a one sided kind of feeling.
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@MyPagio said:
@pseudechis "Some people will leave you all to bleed out but that's 4 mins its not that long, it ends of its own accord. It can be frustrating because as survivor there isn't a lot you can do about it when it happens other than wait it out."
I never do this. I always try to hook them just the game to be fun and continue our game.
But as you have said people can be really mean at the end, blaming you for everything.
Yeah I was just saying the percieved toxicity goes both ways, it can feel more drawn out when survivors stop doing gens to farm a less experienced killer though as the killer equivalents of this tend to be shorter. Either a quick death or a 4min bleed out, not a 10min blind and stun session that just drags out.
I think that's why people feel bullied by it because sometimes it can really drag out with no real end in sight till the killer just stares at a corner or the survivors get their fill and finish the last gen.
Its kind of like that old experiment where you make people wait, one group with no indication of time, the other with access to a clock. Both wait the same amount of time but the group without a clock feel like they wait longer and get angrier.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722183#Comment_2722183
The problem is, balancing around 75% kill rate, and not taking into account camping and tunneling would kill the game.
If you die 3 out of 4 times, as a standard balance, how many times would that increase with those tactics.
And who wants to play a game where you are 75% likely to end in defeat. Not to mention rng, teammates, etc.
The reason 50% works, is because it provides both sides with some wiggle room and not a defeatist proposition.
@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722237#Comment_2722237
I know, right.
Like killer would be so easy if it was "balanced" to give you a 3k from the start.
Why would anyone want to play verses that?
I mean, I get why you would want to play as it, with a guaranteed 3k.
Balancing around a 3K/1E does not guarantee a 3K, just as balancing around a 2K/2E doesn't guarentee a 2K/2E.
Survivors have more wiggle room as you put it on the basis there are 4 of them vs 1 killer. The team element creates their wiggle room.
Killer wiggle room is born of being overall stronger than a single survivor. So 1v1 killer should come out on top majority of the time.
We would expect a higher than avreage kill rate representing good balance, skewed by how coordinated the survivor team was.
If the game is balanced we should see slight over performance of killers given the assymetric 4v1 nature of the game that's reliant on (potentially random) team coordination on the survivor side.
When they post stats they kinda show this in raw kill counts. However its always used as a negative to argue for killer nerfs
The more they try to shift that number to a 50/50 result the more they have to buff survivors 1v1 making the game less assymetric survival horror and more e-sports loopy chase.
The very argument that "no one would want to play a game where they had a 75% chance loss" is the very kind of thinking I'm talking about valuing winning over game experience.
In an assymetric survival horror you should expect it to be hard to survive and easy to die otherwise its not survival horror its just blood tag with points farming and everybody gets a trophy day. I'm sorry but that's a mediocre game experience that flies in the face of the game's very theme.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722183#Comment_2722183
Do you seriously think a competitive gave where a single player getting 3 wins, while 3 players get 3 loses and another player gets 1 win is going fly with anyone except the person get 3 wins.
Thing about it another way. 1 Team gets 3 wins every 4 games while 1 Team gets 3 loses every 4 games. Who in their right mind would play that game. Do you know of any competitive game that is that incredibly unfair?
Personally yeah I would absolutely enjoy survivor more if killers felt more threatening.
The point you make is exactly the point I'm making about interpreting wins. Because the killer is another player people want PVP fairness rather than asymmetric survival horror. The very nature of which undermines the horror element of the game.
It also a good example of win loss perception. There is no real defined win/loss. You equate a 3K to 3 wins. This game is a team of 4 vs 1 so it could also be defined as a 3K is 1 win for killer and 1 loss for survivor.
So as survivor you still win when people escape but its hard to conceptualize this as we think about it in the sense of 1v1, personal victory.
To cater for people who think in the 1v1, in a 4v1 asymmetric game its balanced in a manner that undermines the game's very theme to preserve the fairness of 1v1 interactions. When in reality survivors should be screwed 1v1 with the killer and reliant on team to engineer escapes. That would be much more thematic and probably result in a 3k - 1E kind of balance rather than 50/50.
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@MyPagio said:
@SweetTerror "I've always said that if this game ever sees a proper bot mode where I can play against bots instead of human players like what can be had in the mobile version, I'll never go back to playing against human players ever again"
My thought too...
I really don't understand why the game doesn't have a solo mode and has only multiplayer mode. This could have made things easier. And also everyone can has a good chance to learn his toon. Now, new players, just join a game, knowing nothing and face experienced players. It is not a begginer-friendly game. Only if someone has the interest to really learn the game can play it.
I have spend about 15 hours playing and more than 60 hours watching videos on YouTube and Streams just to learn how to play.
But what really annoys me it's the survivors behaviour...
I agree, I wish this game had a solo play mode/ custom game bots too.
Usually bots are no match for a human player so it can get dull pretty quick, but its good to have the option to crack out a few games without the forced interaction or practice up a new killer where if you are constantly slugging and dropping people to restart the chase it isn't impacting anyone else's fun.
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@MyPagio said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722180#Comment_2722180
i don't want to quit. i really enjoy the game and i play for fun. But those things are really make me angry.
I don't want people to let me win or i'm not crying for losing. This is different.
As a person and a player i believe that respect is needed to your opponent. Else the good people will quit and only the sh1t will stay.
Sadly man its PVP so if you are outmatched survivors often try and farm you for points.
When you are outmatched by survivors as killer the game tends to end quickly. Everybody dies. Some people will leave you all to bleed out but that's 4 mins its not that long, it ends of its own accord. It can be frustrating because as survivor there isn't a lot you can do about it when it happens other than wait it out.
It can feel a lil survivor sided because when survivors outclass the killer they often stop doing the last gen and drag the game out for ages farming points, chain blinding getting saves etc. This can go on for much longer than the 4 min bleed out.
Its a bit ######### but its a good opportunity to practice and get an idea of what kinds of things survivors try. Once you get a good handle on that you can often destroy teams who stop their objective like this.
People are usually gonna wait out the EGC at the gate, I don't get it but when they do this, I as killer will use this time to either chase them out or break stuff and spam your power for extra blood points. Its just a waste of time so use it constructively to farm up some extra BP's for yourself.
Remember a lot of what's fun in this game is often viewed as unfun by the opposing side, typically its not personal but people often take it as such. Don't get hung up on endgame salt and remember you don't owe anyone a fun game just find what works for you and enjoy it. Its only a game.
Welcome to the fog.
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@Veinslay said:
It should be balanced towards a 75% kill rate, with one survivor escaping on average
@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721942#Comment_2721942
Is this sarcasm?
Because no one wants to play a game where you lose 75% of the time.
2K/2E being balanced in an asymmetric survival horror is weird though.
There is this prevailing opinion that survivors dying is unfun but killers have to settle for 4 BBQ stacks as a form of quasi win condition because its rude or mean to kill anyone.
There are a lot of posts on this forum by even BHVR reps saying they just aim for 4 BBQ stacks as their win condition, why even have the kill mechanic then? Just let everyone respawn and farm points and then everyone can escape. Its the worst kind of everybody gets a trophy day mentality.
75% kill rate would be on target for the game's theme. I'd love to have a real sense of danger when playing survivor as only one of us is likely to get out alive. Just like the slasher films this game is based on and tries to emulate.
You see it time and again this mentality where if you don't escape the game is ruined even if it was a rich full game where everyone participated right into the EGC and then died to something silly like NOED.
If the killer was a really powerful computer and the game hard, people would probably relish the challenge, but because its another player they just get angry that someone else managed to kill them.
Trying to balance around this 50/50 escape or die idea just feels like pandering to bad sports who value winning over playing. It undermines the horror element of the game in favour of PVP "fairness."
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@Mandy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2721965#Comment_2721965
It was actually very common to be exhausted on the ground with Dead Hard because it went off the killers connection not the survivor who had the perks connection.
Fair enough I don't have the data and if it was glitching then validation needed to be changed.
I understand that you'd get a cool down for swinging and missing, but I wish the false hit feedback would be fixed its really misleading.
You have to admit also that DH appears, at least from a player perspective, to be over represented in survivor builds because of how strong hit validation has made it.
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DH used to fail and you'd be exhausted on the ground thinking what happened. It wasn't very common (at least in my experience) but it did happen from time to time. It was mildly frustrating and sometimes inconvenient while still being really strong and in almost every build. So they fixed it so now its stupidly strong and in every build.
So killer used to get occasional free hits from deadhard screw up from 1 survivor. Now they never hit but still get a false hit validation, a scream, blood splatter, a hit cooldown and powers eaten and lose a bunch of ground usually across all four survivors at least once (sometime twice) per match.
I guess that's working as intended. Go for balance. 👍️
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Its really not that hard tracking folks in phase walk unless they are running iron will. With a good set of headphones it sounds like you're hunting an asthmatic rhino sometimes, when sounds don't bug out and not work properly that is.
If I haven't played spirit for a while it takes a second to get my ear back but a couple of games and bam you can be pretty dead on in your predictions.
Lately I get a lot of screen stutter too (I'm playing around with it but maybe its time for a new comp) so even if I zero in on a survivor I pop out of phase and stutter, swing and then see the survivor 2m to the side.
The stutter whiff is becoming my nemesis and my reason for playing more survivor even though I find it infinitely more boring.
Both these things could account for your experience.
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I feel you mate this community can be just ugh.
Turn off endgame chat, make any profiles private and then make your own fun.
You don't owe anybody else a fun game just focus on your own enjoyment. People abusing you post game says more about them than you.
Its only a game and not worth getting worked up about.
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The problem is an over reliance on mindgames when half the map structures can be looped but not mindgamed around.
Even then it takes survivor screw ups for a lot of mindgames to work.
Often at "mindgamable" walls its better to just commit to the next vault/pallet because if the killer tries to moonwalk back then you have left them behind and if they commit to chasing rather than mindgaming often hit validation will save your butt anyway. It creates a lot of chase extending lose/lose scenarios for killer especially ones without anti-loop mechanics or high mobility.
If you don't feel in complete control of a chase as survivor then 1. you are being herded and pressured by a very good killer (rather rare but they do exist) or 2. you have screwed up/aren't that great at survivor.
I'm not that great at survivor I really shouldn't escape as often as I do. But lately it seems most games I'm only on 0-1 hook states by game end and fully healed so there is little to no threat outside of NOED/insta downs when it comes to endgame saves and getting out the gate.
With escapes being the new measure of success its often more worthwhile to play selfish and rank up for better team mates than it is to try and save and rank down the random solo queue hole that can develop when you are too altruistic.
I often don't bother trying to mind game and play around structures anymore because there really is no point when I can get a lot of distance just committing to validated pallets and DH.
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I don't get it either as it kind of flies in the face of the game's theme.
We have an asymmetric survival horror based on classic slasher films where survivors run from a big scary killer.
Oh but its balanced around a 50/50 escape chance and lots of ways to make sure you don't die early because the dummy spit crowd want a sense of fair play. Ugh.
I want the scary chase ending unpredictable might kill you in 2 mins killer mechanics that really made you sweat and fearful as survivor back.
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Problem here is what happened isn't toxic.
I'm not saying this out of malice or to troll but...
You don't really earn or deserve anything because you are trying to be "nice." Running a meta build isn't toxic just as running a non-meta build isn't a benevolent gesture requiring reward.
If you find certain things in game triggering then its kind of a you problem and you can learn to not get upset about it or you can run tools to avoid it.
What you really can't do is use it as an excuse to actually be toxic to others. I mean genuine toxicity, abusing team mates or opponents, or griefing or cheating as defined by BHVR. These things are toxic.
Getting face camped at 5 gens, going down to NOED, BM'ing at the gates, flashlight clicking, locker stuns, bleeding out, none of these things are toxic they are just game mechanics. Its up to you to not get triggered by them, learn to play around them or run perks to avoid them.
Personal example I find repeated flashlight blinds annoying and BM'ing at the gates for the entire endgame collapse unnecessary. I run lightborn a lot to avoid the former and I spend the EGC breaking things and farming up bloodpoints to get the most out of the wasted time. This is all on me though, and I don't let it upset me, and if it does I stop playing because it should be fun and if it isn't you gotta take a break.
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@Artemis5 said:
Sorry to hear of your frustration, it gets to be like that with this game a lot of times and then it's good to take a break for a while. I've done that a couple of times this year (especially during the RE chapter release and the mess that it was).
Just wanted to bring it to your attention that the support ticket submission system has been temporarily shut down firstly because there's a backlog of tickets they need to get to and secondly, because BHVR's offices are closed for the holidays, they re-open on the 3rd of Jan. A quick search here in the forums would have told you that - I haven't visited the forum in months and have been here once a day checking out what the people are complaining about now for the past 2-3 days and from the couple of threads I've read, I already know that the BHVR offices are closed now - so I do believe you could've just checked before you posted this rant and claimed that this proves they don't care.
As someone who works in the property industry (I work for a student accommodation rental company) and has to deal with people not respecting our work hours and my private time pretty much constantly and expecting me to work when our offices are closed (because they want accommodation NOW and they have no consideration for whether or not our offices are closed for the holidays, they just assume we are open 24/7 to handle their requests when they snap their fingers), I hate this attitude of entitlement. You said BHVR doesn't care because they've shut down the system, but have you looked into why it's shut down? The entitlement of people constantly expecting people to work even during dedicated down times (when offices are closed) is disgusting. Especially this time of year when most people know that a lot of businesses are closed until after the new year for the holidays. If it was another time, I could've understood you not checking beforehand or just assuming that it is proof that they don't care, but this time of year, there's a valid reason.
Please keep in mind that the people who work for BHVR are PEOPLE too and deserve a break once in a while too, no matter your (or anybody's) dissatisfaction with the state of the game.
And to be clear, I also have my issues with the game and things I would like BHVR to change/improve, so it's not like I'm their biggest fan. But I do realize they are a company that people work for that also need breaks from work from time to time, they can't keep going 24/7.
I don't mean to be rude (so sorry if I come across that way), but I have to admit what you said triggered something in me, because I deal with this kind of entitlement and expectance to work 24/7 all the time, so I just wanted to bring it to your attention, maybe others too, so that they can realize how it feels on the other side and maybe be more considerate and patient this time of year.
Dude this is gold.
I find it even more triggering because its over something as ridiculous and non-consequential as a computer game.
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This is exactly it.
killers need incentive to not camp and tunnel.
The incentive is its valuable to chase another survivor and still have a chance at winning.
How many games by midway have 2-3 hooks and 3-4 gens done. At that point its stacked heavily in survivors favor and there is less and less incentive to commit to chases. This is the new norm. (its not impossible to win but its an uphill battle)
Killers tunneling are just being efficient with kills similar to survivors splitting up on gens. However the dead player is eliminated, so players hate on tunneling when really its the most efficient play a killer can make, its basically hook rushing and should be anticipated if not expected.
As for camping, defensive play is often higher value than aggressive play for killers especially when facing altruistic teams making camping a viable strategy. More so if teams have good map knowledge and bring chase extending 1v1 perks which is the current meta, DH being a prime example.
Face camping/basement camping at 5 gens can also be strong against altruistic teams. But one person has to hang on hook so they feel victimised via non-participation. This leads to all the "unfun for all, boring, toxic, players only do this to grief, punish everyone who does this, blah blah blah etc". These arguments are born of spite, nothing more and really are just crap arguments. These are usually people calling for punishments and really shouldn't be taken seriously as any suggestion they have is marred by emotion and largely irrational.
So how to incentivise killers to leave the hook.
Make strong chase killers that get quick downs - hated by the community as "anti-loop" so-called unfun.
Change survivor 1v1 abilities - hated by the community and can also disproportionately punish solo players so-called unfun.
Increase gen repair time/add better slow down - Hated by the community so-called boring and unfun.
Punish camping with survivor bonuses due to hook proximity - trialed in the past and abused heavily by SWF teams, any punishment is likely to result in this, making it a bad mechanic.
Give killers more BP's for chasing over camping - doesn't change game mechanics making camping and tunneling just as viable as before so not a real fix.
Anyone else got any suggestions?
Frankly its part of the game so just understand that it may happen and play around it as best you can without getting pissy. Its only a game.
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Don't.
A survivor following you is giving you free pressure by not contributing to their objective (Gens).
If you are chasing someone else you are pressuring 2 survivors with one chase its a gift. If you get the down, then chase the flashlight off and go for the pick up or just slug and then commit to the flashlight player. You still have pressure on 2 people for free.
Learn good ways to avoid flashlight saves there are vids about this or do what I do and run lightborn and not worry about it at all.
Even if running lightborn act like you are trying to dodge flashlight saves. Most will keep on trying and further gimp their team by not contributing.
When down to only 2-3 survivors you can commit to any chase you want. If the person is hard committed to following you around even if you ignore them, which they often are, then there is probably still 3 gens up by the time you get that first kill. In this case their lack of contribution will hand you a 3-4k.
The goal is don't get tilted by it use it to your advantage.
Edit: The goal to not being tilted, is to realise that they are just trying to have fun same as you, its not personal or toxic and there is no need to get pissy over a game. Use their playstyle to advantage yourself.
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He lost some mindgame and bait potential from the saw in chase.
Also feels a lil clunkier if you were used to old billy.
Erroneous cooldowns on powers often feel more clunky to use as they kind of double punish a miss.
Also the roar sounds a bit over the top and I reckon it was an unnecessary addition.
Same ol same ol though they nerf something and half the people just abandon it like its ruined forever. I never see DS anymore either. Haven't played against a billy in a long time.
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I hope they don't.
Usually suggestions are punitive and thus can be exploited by the other side which isn't a good fix.
Hook trading and playing around the hook can make for some fun and intense interactions, especially when playing around the basement.
If they punish camping then they need to increase the viability of chases for killer, which means slower gen progression, or weaker survivors 1on1 via perk nerfs or more "anti-loop" mechanics.
The community seems to hate all these options.
So what's wanted is no anti-loop, no gen slowdown, no camping... what's left?
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Its the age of the streamer, their sore loserism on display for all to see.
There was a time when you needed at least some talent, personality, skill, decorum to be in front of the camera but now any idiot with a computer can do it and here we are.
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I don't get it either.
Sign up to game where you could be eliminated, get upset when you are eliminated ugh.
Its not only survivors, lots of players take it too seriously on both sides, you'll probably see it more as killer though than playing survivor.
There is an un-written collection of expectations that a lot of players have and when the game doesn't meet those expectations they blame the oponent usually as abusively and childishly as possible.
In the age of streaming every sore loser can have an online platform to spread this kind of hate and players get conditioned overtime to the same behaviour and expectations. There a heaps of bad sports live streaming their bad attitude daily. I'd be embarrassed if I behaved like that on camera but these people do and some people watch and condone it.
There is nothing wrong with camping, tunneling, mori's, keys, flashlights, button mashing, gestures etc etc they are all game mechanics that are valid play.
Now some of them are mechanically a lil busted and need some reworking here and there and that's a valid conversation. Most people aren't here for a valid conversation though, they are here to say I hate X, punish everyone who does X, only scummy players do X, its toxic etc etc etc which is largely BS.
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@Atrushan88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2719506#Comment_2719506
It's not a toxic attack on anyone as a person, but it does prevent them from playing the game for 4 minutes.
I crawl, try and cling to life, its thematic try and imagine yourself in a horror movie.
When I say play the game... I mean when something happens that you don't think is great then you have to realise its only a game and these things might happen and in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter.
Look at some of the posts in this thread of people calling bloody murder on toxic bahaviour and bleeding others out to punish toxic behaviour, its rediculous.
These forums have shown me why DBD can be such a negative experience sometimes, because the player base is seriously ######### mental.
Half these people you would never want to game with because they appear to be very emotionally unstable people.
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Basically there is a huge player base of sore losers whom use every excuse in the book to rationalise being rude and abusive to their oponents and team mates.
There is an odd expectation by a lot of players that the game should be played in only one particular way, so even if they win they feel some kind of moral necessity to abuse people for not playing in the exact manner they think it should be played.
Its also a very dark theme prone to attract people with social and personality disorders who just can't interact in a community. (But the mental illness/depression card is often played as an excuse, it doesn't excuse you for being a dick though).
Lastly there are people who take every little thing that can happen in game as some personal attack on them and then feel justified in being toxic and abusive back because they can't separate a fantasy game world from reality when upset.
Its a bummer because its a great game often ruined by a bad player base.
You can have some great matches though and it is a lot of fun, just know that you may get a run of garbage experiences especially with the borked MMR system.
I'm still hoping they implement custom game bots so you can have a few games without the constant barrage of negativity from the player base.
Welcome to DBD.
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or people could stop getting upset about nothing and just play the game.
Bleeding out isn't some toxic attack on you as a person just as flashlight clicking isn't.
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The problem is an over valuing of mind games.
The most common play you see are survivors running to a piece of unmindgamable trash and running around it 5 times till pallet drop. Rinse repeat.
Its mind numbing but it wastes killer time so people do it. They release killers who’s powers can counter this directly and bam everyone complains about anti loop mechanics being no fun, because their one thing they can do doesn’t work as well anymore.
If they make chases less efficient by constantly nerfing “anti-loop” killers you end up with more camping. Then everyone complains about camping.
So the end result is a player base that want no efficient chasing and no camping from killers, so they can just loop endlessly and rely on very situational and less relevant mindgames to be the only thing that might catch them.
Then they say well it takes killer skill to catch you. What they want though is stacking the deck in survivor favour before chases even begin. So that they can play in the most brain dead and unskilled way possible and still extend chase and even escape.
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The original sultry guitar.
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@IsMmrReal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2717908#Comment_2717908
They are not evil by themselves but add all together on a sweaty killer with Metas and it s Evil. Come killers are super creative and it is crazy how evil they can be,
This is a good thing.
Seriously as survivor I want games with a scary killer, that's exciting and threatening to face like a real horror movie.
I'm tired of being able to scooby doo the ######### outa most games.
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Yes it would and I hope they are seriously considering it.
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@Axx said:
Camping is effective because most survivors feed kills. Most players, especially solo survivors, when they get camped they will wiggle and let themselves die. This then lets you chase and down and camp someone else. Then this repeats over and over again. Most survivor players have zero patience and won't hang then struggle so the team can do almost all the gens before they die. Plus, people try to save, instead of doing gens hard, then they get downed and slugged and so on. It ain't the game's or the killer's fault if people feed camping killers more kills.
Like I know solo survivor is rough and that some killers camp and just play mean, but this game is already hand holding the survivor role so much. What more do people want? At this point, the only thing that is going to make people happy is if BHVR adds a bot to play killer that is programmed to only chase.
You've hit the nail on the head, its exactly this.
Protecting a hook is often more efficient than chasing a new survivor. Most survivors play really badly around hooks. There is either a give up suicide and don't use the hook timer to its fullest, a lack of coordination resulting in extra downs and often even coordinated players get so tilted by it they make stupid plays.
If you can take a survivor to second stage on their first hook then the value of that extra pressure pays off big. Even if it costs you an extra gen to get it and more so if the survivors stop doing gens.
When not facing very experienced killers, and often even when you are, there are heaps of mechanics that let you extend chases and if the killer doesn't commit to extended chases (which is really not in their interest) there are tools to reset any pressure gained from wounds really quickly.
Just as survivors have figured out its more efficient to play aggressively than cautiously, killers are figuring out its more efficient to play defensively than aggressively. Pick a three gen and hook someone in the middle of it then just defend it. Once you're down to 3 survivors with a secure 3 gen then you are solid. At that point you can play aggressive because you've just got a huge boost in permanent pressure by removing an opponent.
As chasing becomes less efficient for killers then defensive play will win out over aggressive play more often.
I'd say the most efficient killer play is to, pick your 3 gen, get your fist down, hook them nearby and patrol only your three gen, intermittently returning to the hook. If they get unhooked focus them down dead and then stake out your three gen till you can hook the next one nearby. From that point you can switch to more aggressive play. That is the killer equivalent of survivors splitting up to pressure 4 gens at game start.
If they cook up a punishment to dissuade "camping" then they have to make chasing more efficient than it currently is. I don't see that happening so any punishment mechanic is just gonna further hand hold survivors and make the game generally crummier overall.
Just look at the forum, people get upset about camping but those same people are often getting upset about anti-loop mechanics also.
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@Shaped said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2714746#Comment_2714746
Eh. I find it more interesting when killers are deadly. Guess I am in minority.
After playing for hooks for years I got bored of it.
Me too.
I miss old ebony Moris for this reason. When killers are deadly the game is exciting as survivor.
Traps aren’t threatening enough to slow the game down so they don’t even do what they are intended to do.
every time the nerf killer powers or buff up survivors the excitement of this game gets watered down for me.
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Before COH came out you rarely stopped to heal anyway and just sat on gens wounded as there is very little threat from the injured state.
The only reason to heal up now is that COH makes it so easy to do, so why wouldn’t you.
Nothing really changed, it’s just now easier to heal up between gens while there is still no extra threat to being wounded.
The thinking on this seems really backwards. Survivors weren’t healing because there was no value is using the time to heal given the real lack of threat of being wounded.
So to incentivise survivors to heal BHVR didn’t make it necessary to do, or more threatening to be injured, they just made it easier to heal up.
Simultaneously increasing both killer time crunch and survivor efficiency with no downside or cooldown.
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I think people approach this build the wrong way.
you can drop a couple of traps at the start but the idea is you don’t really set up. You hear a gen being worked on then you trap a nearby loop the herd the survivor off the gen into you trap wall. It only take 1-2 traps to do this.
the goal is to shut down a nearby loop herd a survivor into it and get a really quick down as they get stuck.
you then block some chokes near the hook giving you enough time to return if not already in chases again.
yes it’s not as strong as teleport but the meta is staler than month old bread at the moment switching it up is fun.
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Play thematically.
As killer its your role to kill the survivors so just do it.
I actually don't like it when the killer is nice because it kinda flies in the face of the theme. Killers should be threatening, scary, unpredictable and generally a force to be reckoned with.
If Myers and Laurie just hugged it out and then went for icecream Halloween wouldn't be the iconic slasher film it is today, why people expect the same from DBD boggles my mind but here we are.
You see post after post of "the killer didn't kill me politely or let me go waaahh!" its nuts.