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  • @Sluzzy said:

    Power creep. The killer meta is actually a huge problem.

    Power Creep - When newer things are on a stronger level than older things in video games making the older things obsolete.

    (in case you didn't understand the word you were using)

  • @HungrySnek

    Let me guess next you want to remove undetectable from Tinkerer, aura reading from BBQ and self-healing from Self-Care.

  • Pinhead is basically a cross between Freddy and Pig. Weak Anti-Loop Power in exchange for built-in slowdown and an occasional teleport.

    The box is basically a requirement for Survivors to complete that gets them off gens at least every two minutes. If a chain hunt activates, all actions like Healing, Totems and Generators screech to a stop until the box is found again. Chain hunts also stack with Pinhead's chain power and turn a mediocre anti-loop into something rather threatening.

    Finding the box is useful because it activates a chain hunt early, although its relatively hard to find and not worth going out of your way to look for. Hoarder and Franklins used to be popular on Pinhead. Hoarder tells Pinhead the location of the Survivor that picks up the box and Franklins makes them drop the box early so you can activate chain hunt.

    Personally, I feel that Pinhead's power is pretty weak especially considering that it shares similar mechanics to Nurse Blinks. Whenever I land a good Pinhead chain I think to myself "if I was Nurse that would've been a hit not just chains."

    Pinhead has never been heavily nerfed aside from a few strong addons getting nerfed. His base kit has actually been slightly buffed since his initial release. The main issue with the Killer is that Pinhead himself can break his chains on Survivors by walking towards them. The map geometry can break chains. Other Survivors trying to take protection hits can break chains. Unless you have a chain hunt up or are using the Impaling Wire addon Pinhead's power is gonna feel like its not slowing down Survivors enough in a lot of scenarios because the chains broke too quickly due to unfortunate circumstances you couldn't control.

  • @dugman said:

    I think I want to see how the upcoming nerf to self healing speed impacts it before coming to an opinion on if it needs further tweaks.

    It's the same perk just a few seconds slower to heal. I don't think numbers alone are going to fix COH. It will need some sort of rework, because the Boon mechanic is balanced overall its just COH that is creating problems

  • @dictep said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/319394/boon-dark-theory-is-the-worst-boon

    and you could see killers complaining when the perk appears

    Well yeah. Killers complain about Exponential, COH and Shadow Step already because they can be really strong. There's a reason Killers don't complain about Dark Theory right now

  • Overcome on an indoor map like Lery's or RPD is blight's nightmare.

    And the Overcome/Lucky Break/Iron Will with a good medkit strat is arguably one of the only hard counters to Spirit in the game.

  • Tell me you've never played Killer against 2-3+ Overcomes without telling me

  • @dugman said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894833#Comment_2894833

    Again, though, statistically Sprint Burst and Overcome don't appear to show the safe effect on escape rates that Dead Hard does. All three are good perks but the actual impact by Dead Hard is greater. It's not just a placebo effect.

    We don't have statistics on Overcome. Its too new and the Devs haven't shared information on escape rates since its introduction.

    Sprint Burst's escape rate probably had the opposite situation as Dead Hard. Sprint Burst users are more common in low ranks, where they don't use the perk optimally. Everyone's seen the low tier Survivor that walks everywhere (or worse urban evades) with Sprint Burst. That reason alone makes the perk hard to judge based on statistics

  • @dugman said:

    Dead Hard does statistically significantly correlate with higher escape rates, it’s not the same as Borrowed Time where killers assume people doing saves near them have it and just avoid hitting the rescued survivor because of it. For example someone posted a month or two ago a 400+ game data set that included the perks used in every match. When you pivot out escapes by number of survivors who had Dead Hard per match there was a clear strong fairly linear correlation where for every survivor that used Dead Hard the kill rates dropped 5-10%. (It went from something like 70% when nobody ran it to 40% when everybody ran it if I remember right with corresponding values in between.) In comparison Borrowed Time was mostly flat, there wasn’t much kill rate difference per person running Borrowed Time, probably because the killer just assumed everybody had it.

    So survivors definitely gain significant tangible benefits running Dead Hard compared to not running it. Killers “expecting you to have it” only gets you so far, the real benefit comes from actually having it and using it for either distance or dodging or both. It’s why the devs have said they’re not currently happy with Dead Hard’s stats but have also implied they might be thinking about making something like Borrowed Time just a base kit effect.

    I'm not denying that Dead Hard is a good perk. I just feel it has strong alternatives (Sprint Burst and Overcome) that people don't run because they're conditioned to think Dead Hard is the best. If most top tier Survivors think Dead Hard is the best perk, then you're going to have a placebo effect.

    Statement 1 is much closer to the truth than Statement 2.

    1. I am a good Survivor therefore I run Dead Hard because that's what I believe all good Survivors run.
    2. Dead Hard is a broken perk therefore it makes me a good Survivor and is the reason for my success.
  • @ThatOneDemoPlayer said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2894409#Comment_2894409

    I don't understand the argument of "A lot of BP means the match was good", like no? Most Killers get a lot of Bloodpoints just by using their Power a lot, Demogorgon being one of them.

    Also, see how the Survivor that brought the Map Offering is the one that had the least amount of Bloodpoints?

    Survivors who bring Map Offerings, especially Survivor-Sided Maps like Coldwind, are the ones with the highest chance of killing themselves if something doesn't go their way.

    Without any further context, what I think happened was:

    Demogorgon gets 3 Stacks of Devour Hope around the time 3-4 Generators get finished, downs the Survivor with the Map Offering, and then they sacrifice themselves.

    The remaining Survivors cleanse the Devour Hope and get a 3E

    https://youtu.be/p0c__4UH5g8

    None of that. It was a pretty tame game. The Offering Survivor (Ace) actually didn't get tunneled and the gens were somewhat slow.

    Ace just got the least value from his perks. He never used DS or BT. And quite honestly, from my perspective I can't even be sure he used Dead Hard because he got instadowned one chase and Demo is a Killer thats better at baiting it.

    The only perk he might have got value from was Iron Will, which is a perk I didn't even need or use myself.

  • @shalo said:

    Chase music was added in Frenzy quite a long time ago, late 2020 I think.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUiboBLmoww

    It's heavily muted to the point where you can hear Survivors. On PTB its full blast and the rock music is already louder than standard chase music

  • @bjorksnas said:

    I don't really think its a problem to have chase music playing while in frenzy, usually it doesn't matter except for the first hit anyways and most people play that extremely safe using their power 2 inches from the first survivor

    I don't. I would always use my power probably 5 seconds ahead of time and use the audio to avoid losing the Survivor. It was a nice way to save time and be rewarded for my experience with Legion

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    Did it not always??

    Until the rework, Legion's chase music disappeared when using Frenzy so you had an easier time hearing Survivors.

  • @[Deleted User] said:

    Twins, Spirit, and Hag should be higher. CoH is annoying, but it's almost a non-factor for Hag and Twins if you run Forced Penance.

    And Spirit is the 3rd best killer in the game still. Third in SS tier or first in S. Like CoH, Iron Will is annoying. I don't even think it should be a perk. But it doesn't break Spirit if you adapt for it.

    I've never thought to run forced penance on Twins I might need to experiment. I feel like the real disadvantage with Twins at this point as that Victor is the Killer's map mobility and he can't snuff boons. They would be a lot better against COH and Exponential if Victor could cruise around the map boon hunting.

  • @GannTM said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857100#Comment_2857100

    That’s why short bursts are effective. They are just as effective now as they were before the nerf.

    Alright I see your point. Most Spirits I see make me think she's B Tier but I feel like in your hands she could be A tier. She definitely still has a lot of potential and high skill ceiling.

  • @GannTM said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857077#Comment_2857077

    It’s the same cooldown it was pre-nerf, nothing changed there.

    Pre-nerf misreading while phasing was much less common especially with old Stridor and no directional sounds on the Survivor side. Much less risk involved, so the cooldown came into play less.

  • @StarLost said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/314857/high-mmr-killer-tier-list

    Assuming you are going from left to right within a tier:

    • Tier SS: Yep. No arguments here.
    • Tier S: I'd put Artist up here, probably slap-bang on top of Plague (there's an image for you), heading up your 'S tier just behind Huntress. Artist is stronk. Bubba...maybe, but that's assuming he facecamps and people don't respond correctly. I'd shift him to bottom A actually, even so. Against groups that know what they are doing, he gets a 1k, maybe 2k while camping and that's it.
    • Tier A: I'd move Trickster down to 'C'. He can get reliable downs, but it takes him ages if the survivor is smart and some maps hose him. I'd move Cenobite down to high 'B', simply because how difficult he can be to play on certain maps or against survivors that don't underestimate him. Nemmy...tricky. Maybe down a tier.
    • Tier B: I'd move Demo up to 'A'. He's flexible, remarkably consistent, has amazing addons and almost no weak maps. Myers...is tricky. With certain addons, he's SS. Without, he's bad.
    • Tier C: I'd move Freddy to the back of the group. Legion goes down to 'D'. Ghostface goes up to the butt of 'B', now that stretched res is gone. He's definitely better than Wraith.

    Honestly, I respect that. I knew the Artist was good but I haven't seen a lot of people master her yet. I gave Trickster A tier because of the fact he's less bothered by Circle of Healing than most Killers and has a camping prowess that rivals Bubba. But yeah when Trickster is bad he's BAD. Demo is tough because he is less and less picked so its hard to get a good gauge of him as the game progresses past his retirement.

    Freddy, Legion and Ghost Face are all pretty weak they're in C-Tier for not having a strong chase power and being more weakened by Circle of Healing than average. All of them used to thrive with hit and run tactics

  • @MegMain98 said:

    In no way shape or form is Spirit anything lower than A tier.

    Even with Iron Will and Shadow Step (which most people do not run Shadow Step) the power in a chase is all on her.

    @GannTM said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2857052#Comment_2857052

    So you just assume that every survivor runs Iron Will? And even if they do they’re not unbeatable in the slightest. She’s 176% movement speed with good add ons and is still invisible. She may have reasonable counterplay, but putting her below all those other killers that don’t have the mobility and map pressure Spirit does just doesn’t make sense to me.

    I just feel that Spirit's Power is average because it has a pretty long forced cooldown and she's basically useless while its on cooldown at 110. What made her strong was having a much easier time getting the second hit once the Survivor was injured. Now she doesn't have that, so the risk to reward ratio is off. I just feel her margin for error is really thin nowadays. Iron Will is one of the most common perks at high level for a reason

    Messing up a power usage on Spirit is much more punishing than any of the higher rated Killers and its probably the easiest its ever been to make mistakes on her because Survivors have more information than ever and you have less

  • @GannTM said:

    In what universe is Spirit B tier???

    The Shadow Step, Circle of Healing, Iron Will with the Stridor nerfs cinematic universe

  • Its the one that shows which gen ur working on. It used to be Better Together

  • @Pukenplag said:

    Remind me what Situational Awareness is. I never remembered the new names.

    Also, I don't necessarily agree with Kindred getting that buff. It's already just fine. Same with Empathy and Bond.

    You show your aura to injured survivors. And heal them 10% faster.

    Small benefit but I like that it rewards Survivors for using the perk as intended

  • @sizzlingmario4 said:

    I don't think every aura perk needs a secondary effect but it'd be a decent way to buff some of the weaker ones. Kindred doesn't need any additional benefits though.

    Giving Kindred an additional benefit would give SWFs an incentive to run it. Right now they never do out of the principle of being able to coordinate saves with voice chat.

  • @some_guy1 said:

    you wanted to get hit through the pallet?

    I felt like there was no way I deserved that stun. I've played on the other side of that so I felt a little bad

  • Honestly, it probably won't get anymore nerfs. The Devs only go by stats and COH has two factors that will make it look balanced.

    1. Low pickrate because its only optimal to run one COH per game.
    2. Low escape rate because the person running COH benefits the least from it. The other three survivors can run four different perks plus benefit from COH.
  • @AngyKiller said:

    No, no. He should move at 200% speed as long as no Survivor can see him. 😁

    That could lowkey make him a really interesting Killer. If he had 200% movement speed while not being looked at or actively in chase.

    It’s like Ghost Face, but more stressful because you have to be looking behind you 24/7 or he basically closes all distance. Heck, even losing chase with a Myers might be a disadvantage because he could be literally anywhere trying to get an off-angle

  • Boons + Small Game is the real meta at this point.

    You can counter hexes without ever cleansing them with Boons. And if No ED shows up, you’ve got a good chance of finding it with Small Game

  • @PlayTwink said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727667#Comment_2727667

    It's not about horrible loopers buddy, the point is the survivors play so weirdly that they prefer to hide in the corner of the map instead of doing the objectives. Not everyone must be good at looping, but at least do something for your mate, while he's being chased

    Honestly, sometimes its most optimal to leave the weak link on hook for two minutes and do gens the entire time than actually save them.

    You can win the game by being a horrible teammate sometimes and sensing the blood in the water

  • @PlayTwink said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727593#Comment_2727593

    Good for you, but for most of us, the SBMM system matchmake us with newbie survivors, the devs even adressed that in the developer update. You know how unfair it is for both expierienced survivors and newbies? You can even loop killer for 10 minutes and still they can't do all 5 gens, except if you're playing solo with 3 SWF group.

    We just play a different game I guess. I haven't seen anyone that I would consider a newbie since SBMM was implemented.

    Some horrible loopers, sure. But no one thats made me think they just bought the game

  • @PlayTwink said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727364#Comment_2727364

    Lmao, In 80 seconds of chase, one survivor can basically do an entire gen. My chases lasts for like 2-3 minutes. Don't really know why do you protect this awful system, but whatever

    The SBMM system generally benefits Survivors. It has made my Survivor gameplay significantly easier and given me much better teammates at my level of play (which is pretty much as high as it gets).

    I don't know how it effects the low/mid levels of play, but buffing the matchmaking itself anymore in Survivor favor at the highest levels would make Killer even more unplayable than it already is.

  • @PlayTwink said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2727276#Comment_2727276

    It does not work. SBMM match skilled survivors with newbies that are afraid to even run at the trial. Also they barely even touch gens

    You're not understanding. Survivors do gens when they aren't pressured by the Killer.

    A "high skilled" Survivor is one that can consistently keep the Killer busy for long amounts of time, so their team can do gens.

    If you think you're losing every game due to your teammates not doing gens, you should really look at how long you last in chase and start there. You are the only common denominator and if you're not enough to consistently impact the outcomes of your games you have more to improve.

  • @PlayTwink said:

    The problem is the fact that expierienced solo players are getting matched with players that barely do any objectives like gens, rescuing other survivors, even blessing a totem. They usually hide in corner of the map and basically do nothing for their mates. If you're gonna balance solo survivors expierience look first at your SBMM, because it makes every skilled solo survivor feel hopeless when the killer is chasing them and other 3 survivors do basically nothing.

    IN SHORT:

    Matchmake skilled solo survivors with other skilled survivors. make emblem system have an impact on sbmm and face them with decent/ high expierienced killer.

    Also for god sake buff killers. Reward them for playing fair and pressuing survivors.

    I hate to tell you this but SBMM does work for skilled Survivors.

    I've barely played Survivor this month and I load into lobbies of entirely Red Rank Survivors and Killers as a Bronze.

    Why? Because the game knows that I'm skilled at this point and won't put me in casual lobbies anymore. I can't escape them because I escaped pretty much any match with a bottom 80% Killer player.

  • @MrCalac123 said:

    If Solo gets as close to SWF as possible, the next logical step would be to add universal buffs for Killers.

    Correct. Universal game changes will be easier to study and implement when there's not a 15% discrepancy between Survivors that needs to be taken into account

  • @ThatOneDemoPlayer said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/302582/killer-is-worse-than-ever-before

    Clip Nr. 1: Seems like a bug, don't know why it showed the Exit Gate Switches before the last Generator was finished

    Clip Nr. 2: Ormond has a tendency of spawning 2+ Survivors in Shack every time, that's fully on you

    Clip Nr. 3: Chris used up 2 God Pallets within the first minute in the game, that's good for you. If you're not using Corrupt Intervention, don't be surprised when 1 or 2 Generators pop within the first chase

    Clip Nr. 4: You whiffed

    @Aven_Fallen said:

    I mean, this is a pretty lame video.

    First one was a Survivor lagging. That is unlucky, but it is what it is.

    Second is 3 Survivors on a Gen and probably at least 2 BNPs. But you did not show the Loadouts afterwards. Yes, this is a fast first Gen, but the first Gen(s) dont really matter and another Gen will not be completed that fast, since they used their BNPs.

    Third is you chasing a Survivor and a Gen got done. Nothing special here.

    Fourth was you missing a Hit... But when it comes to predropping and holding W - yes, this is a thing. However, you can thank the Devs for that, by creating more and more Anti-Loop Killers, Survivors adapted to it. And holding W works against M1-Killers which can actually be looped as well...

    Sorry. Guess its all perfectly balanced and entirely my fault.

  • @SomberNokk said:

    Lockdown?

    Meant Deadlock lol

  • Survivor is a fun chill game with friends. Killer is a super sweaty solo game. I think thats how its meant to be

  • @The_Krapper said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/298586/should-a-high-skill-killer-win-consistently

    This is tough to answer but I'll try, I'd say No because the survivors have to at least have some chance at escaping even against the strongest build and add-ons otherwise why even play the game? Every killer would play the same thing and you might as well back out if it were a guaranteed victory for the other side based off getting good with one character , I feel like the game is balanced when top tier killers are being played because then it's more skill based for the survivors and more mind games are involved where the smallest mistake can cost you, I think more killers in the A tier level should be created or lower tier killers buffed to that point so that way at high ranks we don't feel like there's only a few options to choose from to stand a chance against a 4 man squad that's actually good, but at the same time I understand why the lower tier killers exist because new players have to start somewhere that's basic and easy to understand, but even if you're the best survivor in the world you're only as good as the team you have so why should the killer be able to get to a point where even a squad of the very best stand zero chance at escaping? It wouldn't be healthy for the game if that existed

    I agree that more top-tier Killers should be added or lower tier Killers should be buffed. Having a couple basic easy to pick up Killers is necessary, but the variety at the top level needs to increase

  • @GoodBoyKaru said:

    yeah boss protocol actually did things and continue to exist

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/2AHZ1JRKV83A/image.png

    definitely worth the amazon rainforest

    ok thats actually pretty funny… and sad

  • A lot of times camping is ideal and optimal.

    If the Survivors are waiting until the last 10-20 seconds to spend more time on gens, it’s a total power move to prevent that and force hook states.

  • Its relatively balanced if Survivors don’t bring items, Killers run the best addons and everyone runs the meta perks

  • No it means they have zero interest in balancing stuff perfectly and are fine with some perks being drastically stronger than others.

    For example, they know full well Iron Will is objectively better than Off the Record and Self-Preservation. But they’re fine with that and will never try to have them all on the same power level.

  • @VikingDragonXii said:

    Another thing is there is absolutely no Risk or Reward for survivors, just reward.

    Here's a idea.....there are negative benefits for the ones to use it......

    CoH - The Survivor can no longer heal themselves or others while the Boon is active.

    Shadow Step - The Survivor is x% louder doing all tasks and while injured.

    Unbreakable Boon - Not sure

    Is there a risk for Dead Hard, Sprint Burst, Iron Will, Borrowed Time, Spine Chill, Prove Thyself or Resilience?

  • You obviously overestimate how many Survivors use Healing Perks and Med-Kits in the same build.

    There’s a reason no one runs Botany, Desperate Measures and a Green Med-Kit every game. It’s overkill and you could just stack meta perks instead.

  • @CashelP14 said:

    I think it should have tokens. You lose a token each time you light a totem. Only give each survivor 2 tokens.

    That I could see working. But Boons could probably be buffed back to 28 meters or even 32 meters to help compensate

  • @VikingDragonXii said:

    To balance Boons is easy......LET KILLERS BREAK TOTEMS.....that one little change will bring us closer to a balanced Boon.

    That wouldn’t balance Boons. It would make them unplayable.

    No Survivor would run them. They’d just go back to the gold standard meta builds that have been viable since 2017

  • @landromat said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676689#Comment_2676689

    Just because meta is stronger. We can nerf meta then to make people use COH

    The Devs to nerfing the 10 staple meta perks that have been virtually untouched for four years is about as likely as them removing Meg

  • @landromat said:

    Remove self heal from COH and they're fine

    No one would use COH. It’s like deleting the perk

  • I play the majority of Killers, so the fun I have with builds is figuring out which perks are the most meta.

    Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer is awesome for Blight.

    Corrupt/Lockdown/No Way Out is fantastic for Trickster.

    Sloppy/Ruin/Corrupt is the Twins staple.

    It’s not as easy as a one-size fits all if you really want to tryhard. I’m looking forward to the new scourge hook, it seems like it might shake up my builds again

  • To be fair the boons discouraging breaking totems changes the power level of other perks too like No ED, Counterforce and Clairvoyance.

  • @RainehDaze said:

    ... traditional?

    Has Sprint Burst not been in the game even longer?

    The original version of Sprint Burst was the most broken perk the game has ever seen.

  • @Labrac said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2658171#Comment_2658171

    You're talking like the killer can hear the boon from really far away. They have a 24m radius, and you have to be basically upon them (something like 5 or 6m) to hear them as killer.

    You can hear them from a 28 meter actually (the sound effect is the same range as PTB).

    It’s pretty distinct for me at least, but I also can hear survivor breathing most of the time unless its bugged

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