fluffybunny
fluffybunny
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@Michael_Myers said:
As a killer main I play fair, but at least 9/10 games I play as survivor, the killers tunnel and camp. Just wondering if other console players have the same complaints or am I just unlucky lolWinning in their eyes is killing everyone and a lot of people play to win. Tunneling and camping unfortunately works. Sometimes killers finds themselves in situations where they have no choice and some just find it easiest to employ such tactics. You get a lot of camping and tunneling on PC, too.
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I'd love to see a story mode. They could also have rewards for first time playing through the story, too, that you can use towards your online experience, too.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@blue4zion said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?
Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.
I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.
Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.
The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.
@fluffybunny said:
but there are counters towards people having keysPlease tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.
You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.
You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...
Have you ever had a key smacked out of your hand before as survivor? If you're paranoid over something that also requires finding a hatch that's making no noise and may or may not be hidden, just bring franky's. It's more of a counter than some of the stuff that killers have and if you smack the key person enough, the item will be depleted.
You tell me that you find it hard to find a closed hatch.
You also tell me that it's hard for you to find an item again after you've dropped it due to Franklin's.Honestly, these things are some of the easiest elements in the game. Really. You need to a reach a point where you don't consider these things hard anymore first. Then, you can have reasonable discussions about balance issues.
I take it you're hatch god and keys have a beacon of light when you play survivor. I hate to break it to you, but for everyone else keys are small little objects that often blends with environments.
If you get hit and lose the item due to Franklin's, you know where on the map that happened. It did not happen to someone else. You were right there. You were a participant some seconds or minutes ago. You just go back to the place and pick your item up. You have to remember where you lost your item only for a couple of minutes at max!
If you insist that you are telling the truth and that this is indeed a challenge for you, then that's how it is. But for the big majority of players it isn't.
If you don't foresee Franky's, you may not be paying attention to the exact stop you were hit. Given if they hit you at a window spot, that lessens where you have to look, but if it's out in the open, you may not know exactly where it is. Not everyone has photographic memory and I'm not the only one who has dropped a key and have been unable to find it 'cause it's small and hard to see. A lot of the areas on the maps look the same. You may not remember which one it was dropped at or where exactly it is. And if the killer sees you, that's basically a free hit 'cause you're out positioned.
And that's why I see so many struggle with it?
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I personally do both and have no issue playing solo, but I've been told by countless people that they wouldn't play survivor solo.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@blue4zion said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?
Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.
I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.
Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.
The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.
@fluffybunny said:
but there are counters towards people having keysPlease tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.
You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.
You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...
Have you ever had a key smacked out of your hand before as survivor? If you're paranoid over something that also requires finding a hatch that's making no noise and may or may not be hidden, just bring franky's. It's more of a counter than some of the stuff that killers have and if you smack the key person enough, the item will be depleted.
You tell me that you find it hard to find a closed hatch.
You also tell me that it's hard for you to find an item again after you've dropped it due to Franklin's.Honestly, these things are some of the easiest elements in the game. Really. You need to a reach a point where you don't consider these things hard anymore first. Then, you can have reasonable discussions about balance issues.
I take it you're hatch god and keys have a beacon of light when you play survivor. I hate to break it to you, but for everyone else keys are small little objects that often blends with environments. If it gets hit out of your hand, the item's use is depleted and you have to waste time finding it again, possibly leaving you out in the open and not doing gens. If you don't have the perk, the DLC is nice to get as it has BBQ, too. Well worth the money.
As for hatch, it doesn't always spawn in front of you. I've had so many matches where I don't see the hatch at all while playing and if I were to bring in a key, I'd be wasting time searching for something that can be a pain to find, even while it makes noise. The hatch spawns and weird places sometimes and both sides should be aware of this.
As I said in the initial posts, the key is a rare/ultra rare items. Those are supposed to make the game shorter as they're expensive and rare. It's the same with killer's stuff. A huntress with a one-hit down hatchet will likely have shorter games unless she is facing against really good survivors who can dodge all her throws. That's likely not to be the case. Moris also speed the game up really quick and gives killers a quick end. Survivors still have to get gens done to use the key and they have to find the hatch to be able to use it. I don't think it's nearly as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@blue4zion said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?
Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.
I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.
Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.
The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.
@fluffybunny said:
but there are counters towards people having keysPlease tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.
You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.
You are really trying to tell me that Franklin's is a counter against keys found in chests...
Have you ever had a key smacked out of your hand before as survivor? If you're paranoid over something that also requires finding a hatch that's making no noise and may or may not be hidden, just bring franky's. It's more of a counter than some of the stuff that killers have and if you smack the key person enough, the item will be depleted.
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@BACKSTABBER said:
@fluffybunny said:
What survivor/killer were they trying to get?I was a toxic Nea that escaped in the Hatch, he wanted adept for the Spirit
Oh, he probably should have slugged for it, then.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@blue4zion said:
@NoShinyPony said:
Keys need a rework. Hatch as well, but keys more urgently. Using a key to open the hatch is a free escape and totally unbalanced.Do you have any ideas to rework keys perhaps?
Maybe it should take a little bit to actually open them, possibly include skillchecks or alert the killer when a survivor is unlocking it. This way, a survivor cant just jump into it mid chase and they'd need to wait for the killer to be a decent distance away.
I don't think that change would be enough. It's not only about survivors escaping mid-chase.
Imagine that only 2 survivors are still alive, 3 gens have been done. The survivors take a key and escape through the hatch. That's not fair to the killer at all. The killer can't do anything against it.
The hatch should only be an option for the last survivor. If there are more survivors alive, they should have to repair all the gens.
@fluffybunny said:
but there are counters towards people having keysPlease tell me the counter to survivors getting keys from chests. You know Franklin's isn't one.
You should know how hard it is to find a key once it's hit out of your hands. It's a rare, expensive item meant to speed the game up, essentially like a mori.
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@wouldntyouliketoknow said:
@fluffybunny said:
I saw somewhere else someone suggest people being kicked back to lobby if there's any DC at the start. I agree that it stinks when you lose your offerings to a DC. I think killers should keep their stuff, too, if there's a DC as their things aren't being used as intended. If they don't just kick you back to lobby.The more I think about it the more problems I'm running into though. Because my idea about the killer getting to keep their stuff if a survivor DC's wouldn't work if everyone had to leave a game. If everyone had to leave a game, wouldn't it be fair if survivors got to keep their stuff as well? Would it only be survivors who aren't in the same SWFs group? Who would get to keep their bloodpoints?
If everyone DCed (no one could connect at the start), everyone would keep their things. I honestly don't know why survivors keep their items when they DC. Is it in case the DC was because of the game or the server they're connected to? Anyway, survivors would keep their items and offerings if the killer DCs and killers keeps it if anyone DCs since the killer may not be able to use his add-ons or offerings to the full potential of their ability and it'd be less of a punishment (to the killer) if a survivor were to DC when seeing strong offerings or add-ons. It could be anywhere from two to four of them as I think it still can be used as intended with three people, but it could also include any DC. Therefore if everyone DCed, everyone keeps their things.
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I saw somewhere else someone suggest people being kicked back to lobby if there's any DC at the start. I agree that it stinks when you lose your offerings to a DC. I think killers should keep their stuff, too, if there's a DC as their things aren't being used as intended. If they don't just kick you back to lobby.
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@thesuicidefox said:
I love True but really if you play the game as much as him you should just accept things like Ruin and NOED, and even DS as just part of the game. As a survivor main that plays a LOT of killer, really the only perk that needs a serious rework is DS and only because non-obsessions can use it which is really what makes it so damn powerful. You can counter play DS against the obsession, you can't against non-obsessions.I agree, though DS can completely change a game even on one person and can encourage people to not commit to chases with you or picking you up, which gives you more lives, technically speaking.
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@TAG said:
theanimal41 said:I'm not saying report for exploits or griefing that are banable offences. I'm just suggesting that if one gets a bunch of reports for unsportsmanlike that if they get put in games with others that have high unsportsmanlike reports.
I think that can get you in trouble for false reporting. Last I checked, camping and tunneling are not reportable offenses.
I don't believe you will get in trouble as long as you're not making up what you report. A lot of people don't know what is considered reportable and what isn't.
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What survivor/killer were they trying to get?
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They go on long romantic walks in the forest only to randomly be pulled into a match.
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I could see that argument being made for BBQ, but some of the others require certain things to obtain stacks.
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One item is enough.
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As killer, you can see what the survivors have and make your build accordingly. So, probably. Sometimes it takes so long to get a lobby, I'm not even paying attention to who joins my lobby.
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@JanTheMan said:
Just let survivors see each others loadouts (something SWF has already)Though couldn't you have people dodging games 'cause they see No Mither present on someone's build before the match starts?
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That would probably be easy to exploit. Like people could sell you BP for money and I doubt that's something they want to encourage.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Idea: Make ToTH light up all dull totems and give the notification on cleansing the real totems. Remove all the other effectsI like that idea, considering most don't bring NOED with ToTH, anyway. So there'd be virtually no downside to lighting up every single totem.
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@NuclearBurrito2 said:
@fluffybunny said:
Honestly I don't think Hex: TotH should be a hex, but a normal perk. I'm not sure if having it block all other totems for a certain amount of time would be a good idea. The game's already kinda buggy. I dunno how easy that would be to code in, especially considering people can be on totems at the same time.Well it basically IS a normal perk. It just happens to interact with other hex's. But there is no totem you can break to remove ToTH
Well, no, I mean I don't think it should be a hex in game, but I don't know how possible or broken the suggested reworks would be.
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Honestly I don't think Hex: TotH should be a hex, but a normal perk. I'm not sure if having it block all other totems for a certain amount of time would be a good idea. The game's already kinda buggy. I dunno how easy that would be to code in, especially considering people can be on totems at the same time.
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I honestly would like more obsession perks for survivors. The killer gets one every so often, but the only obsession perks survivors have are from Laurie.
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Kate 'cause she's cute and I like her story. Everyone else I'll play occasionally if they have offerings.
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Have you tried changing your setting to low? The higher settings make it really dark. EDIT: Also I lost the game QQ
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I think the Exposed effect could last a bit longer. 15 is a bit too short. I think it's to counter the locker buffs, maybe, but I've never seen it actually used successfully.
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But Golum is best Quentin.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@fluffybunny said:
@NoShinyPony said:
@Marvett said:
What's the point of using an instaheal if i can get downed in one hit anyway.
is this a bait or..?!The point is: For the current version of insta-heals, the surv doesn't need any skill. It's just a free heal up during a chase without downside and unbalanced.
If the surv lasts 30 seconds without getting hit after the insta-heal has been used on them, then it took some skill and wasn't a total freebie. If the surv doesn't last 30 seconds and gets downed due to the exposed status, then that's just the downside. I mean, survivors also use DS while there is the risk of not hitting the skill check.
Weren't you the one asking if survivor mains play killer? I suppose I have the question of if you're one of those killer mains who don't play survivor. You seem to be lacking in knowledge on how all this works. Have you played survivor?
Wrong. I'm a survivor main.
And now? You realize a discussion doesn't work by just throwing random assumptions around? On top, it's really impolite. Do you think people will still be respectful towards you when you behave like that?I have also explained multiple times why spending bloodpoints is not a downside gameplay-wise. I also explained why insta-heals are a freebie while a killer still needs skill to land insta-downs. I even explained it with the insta-hatchet example. Just scroll up.
If you still have questions after reading the thread, I'll explain what is unclear to you.
I apologize for triggering you, though it wasn't based on nothing and therefore not an assumption, but an observation and a question. It isn't wise to shoot down conversation, though, and my point still stands. I don't know about you, but I don't want to waste bloodpoints on another pointless item, considering how many characters I have. If the person healed someone from the ground, that's likely a free down. If the person healed themself, that's a wasted item and if they did it at a poor time, free hit. If you're really that afraid of an insta-heal, just bring franky's. It's a pretty nice counter.
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Just continue being the light you want to see. That's the most any of us can do. Sometimes you get unlucky and sometimes people will take out frustrations on another target rather than the intended rude person. It's just life sometimes, unfortunately.
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Ranking is a joke nearly half of the time. It's kind of expected in solo ques. Some matches will be great and your team will be solid and some you'll get unlucky. The survivors shouldn't have been swarming the hook with a killer who had NOED. They also should have been doing totems as they went, especially since the killer had little to no pressure on the game while they were playing. I'd assume a NOED in that situation.
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Create distance and dodge and weave the gas. You can also try stealth, too, if you aren't already in a chase.
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@MegaWaffle said:
@fluffybunny said:
@MegaWaffle said:
@mistar_z said:
- Adrenaline
- Balanced Landing
- Dead Hard
- Lithe
- Sprint Burst
1: DS
2: DS
3: DSorry I've got to stop right there, for some reason my keyboard isn't working properly.
I didn't realize obsession = exhaustion.
Either sarcasm too or "whooosh".
I'm in a sarcastic mood. I dunno why lol
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@MegaWaffle said:
@mistar_z said:
- Adrenaline
- Balanced Landing
- Dead Hard
- Lithe
- Sprint Burst
1: DS
2: DS
3: DSorry I've got to stop right there, for some reason my keyboard isn't working properly.
I didn't realize obsession = exhaustion.
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Somehow that doesn't sound um... "good."
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@Boss said:
@MongByeolBuddies said:
@Boss said:
Awww, i gain Tokens slower on Devour Hope.
It's fine though, i wouldn't mind sacrificing that little bit if everyone else will have more fun.
Also: Wow! A buff to Blindness!Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how you would gain stacks slower because you're guaranteed to gain a stack every time a survivor is resurrected regardless of your location.
The buff to blindness probably is a little much. They could add an effect around the graves to make them easier to spot.
Generally, my hooked Survivors are saved within 15 seconds of me hooking them.
The sacrifice animation is about 10 seconds.
Unless they're camping a grave and the resurrect animation is 5 seconds or less, i'd lose time generally.We could also add a longer time to get people out. I think that would be fair since you don't necessarily have to contend with a killer camping the area.
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@MongByeolBuddies said:
TLDR -- Once survivors are hooked, they are killed and their bodies are now transported to graves where they need to be resurrected. 3 Hooks and they're dead. This new mechanic would only be applied when the devs add a secondary objective for survivors.
So what do you think? Would this fix the problem?
Thank you for the TLDR.
I like the idea. -
What platform are you on?
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@Science_Guy said:
They are the worst.
Speaking of Bond, they're the reason I don't run that perk. If they are crouching behind a wall being "stealthy" when the killer is clearly busy, at least I don't have to know about it. Out of sight, out of mind.On the other end, I run bond and will run over and wave for them to come with me, especially if I know the killer isn't nearby or is preoccupied.
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@NoShinyPony said:
@Marvett said:
What's the point of using an instaheal if i can get downed in one hit anyway.
is this a bait or..?!The point is: For the current version of insta-heals, the surv doesn't need any skill. It's just a free heal up during a chase without downside and unbalanced.
If the surv lasts 30 seconds without getting hit after the insta-heal has been used on them, then it took some skill and wasn't a total freebie. If the surv doesn't last 30 seconds and gets downed due to the exposed status, then that's just the downside. I mean, survivors also use DS while there is the risk of not hitting the skill check.
Weren't you the one asking if survivor mains play killer? I suppose I have the question of if you're one of those killer mains who don't play survivor. You seem to be lacking in knowledge on how all this works. Have you played survivor?
You need to waste BP on insta-heals. The kind to get someone off the ground is at the same rank of being able to kill everyone with your hand. The kind to heal one state is a level below, but it costs a lot to make your way through the bloodweb just to get an item survivors won't keep. You're likely to not even get it on the first level 50 you have to pass and mind you, killers get twice the bloodpoints and have an easier time getting their bbq stacks than survivor's wasted slot of wglf. If we aren't arguing BP, we can also argue timing. You need to actually be in a good spot, otherwise the item will be wasted or go unused. It's barely a "freebie" as it costs quite a bit and you need to time it well, as well as be in the right spot.
I'm guessing by your avatar, you're a huntress main. Even if you aren't, this still stands. The huntress has an add-on that gives her one-down potential from far away. What you're suggesting would be like saying the huntress should have a cool-down on her one down. By your logic, that would be fair. Wait a good 30 seconds, that way it isn't a "freebie." Perhaps we could even venture to say a missed hit will count towards that 30 seconds. Wouldn't want to give anyone "freebies," after all.
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Laterns should stay red for a while after a hook, regardless if they were saved or died. The fireflies make it easy to track survivors, though. I like that aspect hehe.
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@chemical_reject said:
Brady said:@DarkGGhost said:
The truth is most survivors don't like a killer because it's way harder and demand so many skills ( main killer)
Truth is I don't like first person view and Killer is only that
I'd play killer if it was 3rd person. 1st person games make me really motion sick. That's the sole reason I cant/won't play killer.
Have you tried running Wraith's Shadowborn perk to see if it helps? I know some have troubles with nurse and have said that perk helps with her.
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Neas with DS who mori all the other survivors before I can get to them. >:c
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I think if the personal stat bonuses only affect the survivor's personal play, it wouldn't make people demand you be a certain character. For instance, Dwight could have an extended view with bond and as someone else suggest, Kate could wiggle off a tiny bit faster (or just wiggle more). If it's small QoL things and not anything major like a buff to healing or repairing, I don't think it'd be that much of an issue.
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@DarkFox85 said:
@fluffybunny said:
I don't think stopping to say "I like/appreciate this" takes away from your argument, too. I just like wholesome stuff and I appreciate the buffs and the changes done so far. There's still more to do, but I think they're trying. Honestly the toxicity of SWF can completely ruin the experience for both sides. They go after Solo players, too, but I have no idea how to fix something like that.
I 100% agree. I've had SWF grief me in many different ways as a survivor. hell, there should be more survivors arguing against SWF.
And I respect the devs very much as well and all the work they do. I don't envy them for having to deal with this problem. I suppose this is more of a "headless frankenstein" sort of issue. Circumstance being the "enemy".
I think the biggest thing with survivor-related issues is that most of them are complex and harder to address. If someone's gonna farm you, they're gonna farm you. Likewise for camping and berating you in end game chat.
I can understand people often want to play these sorts of games together. It's hilarious when you hear a friend freak out and protecting your friend can leave a nice feeling. I think the biggest issue with survivors arguing against SWF or not is that a lot of survivors play on SWF teams or have done so in the past. I've seen someone suggest bringing up solo play to the same level as SWF and giving the killer help in addressing both. I can't fathom how, though.
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I love Maurice lol. He really livens up the environment.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
One of the things was indeed that I thought that an injured Survivor is slower. Got explained that this is not the case, when I wanted to heal someone while NOED was active.Another thing was that I did not realize that rushed actions like fast Lookers or Fast Vaults would result in a Noise Notification. But I was wondering why the Killer always found me right away, when the first thing I did was fast vaulting a Window to get to a Gen....
I don't remember when I stopped thinking that. I think I realized that after all the guides I watched said nothing about a slower speed while injured and no one (at the time) said anything to confirm what I thought. I was watching puppers recently and he mentioned it and it reminded me of newbie me who thought injured survivors were slower, too.
If you have quick and quiet, you don't make noise!
I used to play with that perk a lot. It was one of my favorites. -
@DarkFox85 said:
@fluffybunny said:
You also have to realize that compared to how it once was, it's a lot better. They've done a lot to improve the experience for killers and while there's still more to be done, a lot of killer mains don't even seem to be aware of the improvements their side has seen. I understand DS is BS, but you have some complaining about pallets and many who don't understand camping and tunneling can ruin the experience for the other side. They want their buffs, but they also want to play in the same exact way they always did prior to the buff with no affect to their points or their pips.DbD may well be better than it once was, but that’s no argument for just accepting the way things are now. Fact is, there are still issues. Old issues like infinite loops and OP flashlights are before my time anyway. Their prior existence doesn’t detract from toxicity or SWF.
Though I think you may be right in alluding to a lack of gratitude amongst killers. There’s a good argument there. Very “John Kramer” actually. I’m prepared to meet halfway despite being a survivor myself. There is a lot of whining isn’t there?
[For some reason I started thinking about the faster hooking buff. I really loved that tweak. Barely a second, but feels so nice. A tiny buff really, but one I’m grateful for]
I don't think stopping to say "I like/appreciate this" takes away from your argument, too. I just like wholesome stuff and I appreciate the buffs and the changes done so far. There's still more to do, but I think they're trying. Honestly the toxicity of SWF can completely ruin the experience for both sides. They go after Solo players, too, but I have no idea how to fix something like that.
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@NoShinyPony Of course there's more to be done. With this sort of game, I'd be surprised if there were ever a time the game was "perfect" for both sides. Survivor needs some tweaking, too, but the moment you mention anything, you get a handful of killer mains screeching about how they still need attention. My point is that a lot of killer mains fall into the same boat as survivor mains where they don't play the other side and can't relate to the issues the other side may face. It's not affecting them so why should they care if the other side has fun? I think that mentality is damaging and we should look to have a fun experience for both sides, rather than putting people in boxes and assuming you know what they're gonna say and think.
I understand not everyone has a good amount of empathy, though, and that goes for both sides. Even when I didn't play killer, I could still relate with killers wanting to feel stronger and wanted them to have better experience. I understand that is sometimes not the case for even people who play that particular side as they're not seeing the issues in their games. Some people lack awareness and others just don't care.
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@blue4zion said:
I also thought the keys were meant to open doors. When my purple key wasn't working, I just gave it to someone else.
Yeah, keys usually go to doors in games lol. xD
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I believe the survivor's goal is actually to survive any way possible if we're going off of lore. I do agree the hatch isn't a good mechanic for end game, though. If everyone died but one, I don't believe they should be entitled to a hatch and that whole thing is rather boring. It basically becomes a game of who's willing to wait the longest and that shouldn't be a thing in my opinion. They could rework the end game to allow for more interesting plays for that scenario in the very least. As for keys, it's annoying when you get an early escape, but there are counters towards people having keys and it isn't just not allowing more than two gens to be done.