coppersly
coppersly
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@Nekoo said:
Even from a survivor POV, her add-ons are just stupid.
Especially the "ultra rare",
3 blink but can't go through solid object? With her movement speed being 95?
oh boy I can loop her forever.
And the basekit require charge time?
if nurse miss her first attack, it take 4 blink to catch up someone RUNNING STRAIGHT LINE, tru3talent tested it.
not to mention her ability to patrol gens is fked
You bring up good points. Overly punishing is an apt description for this "slight" change.
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@switch said:
This nerf to her didn't really do much, she is literally the same with a small cooldown, but they have made her A LOT LESS FUN TO PLAY, and i don't like that.
I really wanted the nurse nerfed into the ground, but also i want people to have fun with her.
All you have to do is change how you play the game against her and you can really extend your chases with her. People to it do me all the time. I'm by no means a god tier Nurse but I can do fine at rank 1 consistently. Let me tell you it is very possible to loop Nurse, you just do it differently. With the base-kit changes those who DO know how to do this will become impossible to catch. You will almost never be able to catch up after waiting for cooldown after cooldown walking at them like a turtle. It cuts down on the fun of blinking, it cuts down on your map pressure, it cuts down on your chase, and it cuts down on the threat survivors actually feel against the killer.
All around it's bad in high elo where she will get abused, which is the entire point of mastering Nurse so you can actually win against toxic SWF.
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Not that there aren't 50 million of this exact thread but I think the addons are mostly fine, barring some ones being outright worthless again and a few that need some work. I made a thread on PTB feedback forum if you'd like to see that.
Her basekit changes are uneeded and even if they are going to stick with them it makes her much more clunky and punishing to use than she is now. You get punished for good blinks and bad blinks, you get punished for mis-timing charging up a blink even by 0.1 second, you get extra punished if you read wrong and go somewhere else entirely. If they hide at that point there's little you can do.
Overall they took the buttery-smooth and a good risk/reward live Nurse and turned her into an ancient rusted relic of what she was, hindered down by arbitrary cooldown mechanics. If they absolutely MUST keep the changes then charging a blink needs to not stop the cooldown, slow it done is fine but outright stopping it brings the pain train to max speed when you're used to double blink timing (aka the muscle-memory part they didn't want to touch)
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@Mat_Sella said:
what in the bias is going on in this thread? Freddy was literally just changed to be a more effective killer and numerous other killers are gaining Undetectable status which completely changes their effectiveness in their games.
One of the reasons I don't play Wraith or Ghostface as much as i'd like to was due to their lack of actually being stealthy in matches, I love the upcoming changes.
Except that same stealth change completely cripples one stealth killer (EW1 Myers)
Overall though I think the only people not asking for weaker killers to be buffed into viability are trolls and people who are too absorbed in the game to be objective.
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@Mat_Sella said:
Her map pressure is the reason why she needed to be changed, mobility has and always will be the most effective mechanic for killers to have, and Nurse was the premier killer in that aspect.
Demogorgon has the best map pressure once set-up
Freddy can literally teleport to a gen across the map
Hag can teleport to a trap across the map (addon) and still 40m base
Billy
There are powers better suited to map traversal yet they are considered weaker. It wasn't her ability to travel the map well that gives her the edge, it just is baseline part of what a killer NEEDS to be effective. All A/S tier killers have map pressure simply because those without will never reach that tier.
Without her map travel, her double stun, and slow walk speed, Nurse is looking at being less effective everywhere not just in map or chase.
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I agree that it needs to be charging even if slower while you are holding a blink. Right now on PTB her flow is easily broken if you mistime blinking even by 0.1 seconds.
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Gen times are increasingly a problem I agree. Keys could be less forgiving sure. I wouldn't mind if it was at least 1 gen done before it spawns for the last person.
Insta heals are being nerfed, what would you suggest to make mori's not useless? One of the few good ideas I've seen is you have to hook everyone first.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/94652/am-i-the-only-one
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/502/5HKA7AEWRME8.jpg
this should answer your question 🙂
I was actually hoping for something like this in Freddy's rework.
Long spaghetti arms that can hit you from far away if you're asleep.
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@Peanits said:
Are you playing with a higher ranked friend? If so, that is working as intended. The details of the matchmaking system can be found here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/92295/
If you notice something outside of those rules, please grab a screenshot of the ranks, write down roughly when it happened and fill out a bug report. We'll take a look and see what's going on. It shouldn't happen, but if there are edge cases out there, we're going to see if we can fix them.
(Disregard this if you're on the PTB: The game isn't nearly as picky over there, it'll give you whoever it can get.)
The changes to matchmaking regarding SWF was an excellent move, but it isn't enough.
People purposefully derank and let themselves die/stand in a corner so they can get easier games/games that are actually fun/bully new players. I would love to see a ranking system that actually means something and won't just be a tool you have to work around so you can get to chill games again.
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@Blueberry said:
The perk really is just a meme and trash perk in its current state. A location ping is near worthless, the exposed duration is WAY too short and once they see you have the perk they are never using lockers for the rest the match so you’re never getting value out of it again. It honestly needs an effect that doesn’t give away that you’re running the perk so that they may still use the lockers again. Just make it reveal their aura for like 6 seconds after leaving a locker and give the killer Undetectable when they do for like 30 seconds. Oh and Jesus don’t put another stupid cooldown on this like all the other perks have that don’t need one.
Your suggestions aren't too bad.
Perks whose counters are just never doing X again after finding out they're using the perk is bad design. Counterplay is needed but not everything and it's mother need 15 ways to counter something.
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I do think the basekit changes to Nurse are not right and extremely unhealthy for the game but I don't think she's quite the worst now. She's high B/ low A on PTB. Definitely not the SWF challenger she once was though and that is what's bad. Less answers to toxic SWF -> more balance problems down the road.
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@gantes said:
The only people who'll stop playing Nurse are the ones who weren't very good at her to begin with.
She'll still be #1. The Nurse players simply won't afford to make as many mistakes as it's currently possible (which is A LOT). No other killer can currently make half the mistakes you can make as Nurse and still win, this will slightly bring her in line a bit.
A good time will win if you make mistakes, period. That's why they're called a good team. Nurse can actually do that and not have to play perfectly against 4 people who can make a mass amount of mistakes and have perks that enable such a forgiving playstyle.
If you play killer in red rank you can't make mistakes or they just pop a gen while you recover from it. You don't get a lot of time to recover.
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@gantes said:
Imagine being so entitled that you get mad when the character you play no longer is in a tier of their own
Imagine having only 3 viable killers at red rank and you think a good decision is to add to the flaming pile of ######### that is m1 killers.
God forbid a killer make you play the game differently instead of running around a pallet until your brain turns to jelly. She was the standard to which killers should be, and now we're losing that.
Play killer at red ranks with the toxic squads, it isn't fun. Enjoy your dead game.
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Cooldown before you can place traps on Freddy/Hag/Trapper, to keep in theme with powers having cooldowns and what not.
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@Marcus said:
She wasn't overnerfed, but idk if she's worth of S tier anymore, especially without add-ons. She seems much closer to A tier killers now. And her add-ons are pretty much the same as before : most of them are garbage or for memes and just a few of them are actually worth running. It seems like Spirit has better add-ons than her now, probably even Billy ...
Yeah an addon pass that didn't change much but made what was good less good while also gutting her base kit. Nurse filet.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746007#Comment_746007
Nobody has said that, you're making assumptions. We can only make so many changes at once. If we could snap our fingers and balance everything, we would. Unfortunately we have to take things one step at a time.
You guys took quite a few steps with the "slight" change.
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@Mr_Digi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746271#Comment_746271
but you're happy noed and other instadown killer things can hit survivors down instantly? because its only too string if survivors have a insta thing? they should do something about noed and rancor... rancor does not need instadown and mori.. would be fine with 1 them
The killer is 1 person chasing 1 person. Most insta-downs are only good for one person anyways.
Survivors are already a group, have x4 of whatever is most broken and likely to give them extra chances, and will make you work hard for a down. Why should they get to instantly reset all of that hardwork by running and hitting spacebar? There is no skill involved for the massive reward. That's why they are getting changed.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746163#Comment_746163
Yea and they suck as bad as the live ones.
As for Nurse, I've only played her for a few games, but she feels so bad too play. her addons are fine for the most part, but they didn't do a "light change" too her base kit, it's a massive overhaul and it really hurt her. not having the second blink in most chases makes her struggle too catch people. Most chases where you miss the second blink will require you too walk towards the survivor has he gets away and then blink again. If they increased her Movement speed in accordance with the fatigue + blink cooldown then she would be fine, but now I find her worse then Spirit now.
They took the fluidity out of her by putting the cooldown on it. They are obsessed with making killer powers have a cooldown built in...
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745465#Comment_745465
I was but whatever. I was just talking about the distance, if a killer breaks a pallet a survivor can only gain so much distance.
Sure, but there are no actual facts as of now. You can't say for a fact that Nurse is now underpowered either.
She's not underpowered... but she is just a pathetic shell of her former self right now.
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@beatddb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744864#Comment_744864
Spirit is not op, Nurse wasn't op, the addons were the problem. Both killers were stronger than normal, but that didnt mean you'll always lose against them. And if SWF wasn't "stronger than normal" people wouldn't find the need to play strong characters.
As a P3 Nurse myself, I often ran up to survivors who were extremely hard to catch because they were good with LoS breakers and stealth, but maybe getting good at that is harder than saying the Nurse and Spirit are OP&Broken.
And right now, there isn't a single killer capable to win against a fully coordinated and optimal SWF team.
If a Nurse was worse than you, she wouldn't be able to catch you, it was easy as that.
God forbid a killer can deal with a toxic SWF, meanwhile that mentality completely ignores the toxic group being more powerful than killers is gamebreaking and the opposite of the games intent.
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We still have maps like Haddon Field that make most killers want to stand in a corner because that would be more fun than running a house over and over
We still have toxic death squads
We still have games that last 3 minutes because gens are increasingly getting worse and worse as the stale mechanic ages poorly
We still have people who camp and tunnel
We still have huge issues left to solve and they nerf one of the only 3 killers capable of dealing with it?
I don't enjoy getting tbagged as Nurse on PTB because I'm artificially limited and they know they can drag the chases on for extremely long periods of time and rush gens on the other side of the map because I can't possibly travel it fast enough now.
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@indieeden7 said:
They might reduce the distance that Detective's Hunch can reveal items from. Other than that I don't know what they could do without making it useless.
Completely scrap the gen and totem system and implement something that takes thought, time, and strategy? and something more interesting then holding m1 to cleanse a power that wasn't used in the first minute.
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I agree, they keep pushing totem cleansing without making totems feel and work better killer side. You can hide them well all day but when a perk reveals them anytime a gen goes off it's not going to stop them from cleansing it.
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I personally don't think messing with the fluidity of a killer and making them clunky is a good move. They should strive to make killers that are on Nurses level so there could be diversity, and they should be as fluid as she is.
Sorry, was.
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@FruityMemes said:
This game is so awful for both sides survivors need swf to have fun playing. I refuse to play survivor without people I know because so many people are awful on this game lol seriously if I play alone I die on first hook way too often
I completely agree with you. Ever since SWF has been introduced solo survivor has been a subpar experience and it is quite literally a disadvantage that you can completely ignore with friends. Solo survivors need to be at the level of SWF and then we can buff most killers and "slightly" change a few that are too powerful when survivors can't bully anymore.
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@indieeden7 said:
I mean, survivors get their fair share of nerfs too. Nothing is intended to drive players away from the game, just to make things fair and fun to play as and against as both sides.
While there are and have been OP things about killers, it usually pales in comparison to the broken and quite frankly extremely easy to abuse mechanics that survivors have at their disposal. They were the power role for a long time, and we are shifting that to killer slowly with these recent patches barring this Nurse change of course.
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@Peanits said:
She's getting buff by lifting RBTs in her spare time. This is what you guys meant, right?
Well played Peanits.
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@CallMeBacon said:
It's extremely doubtful considering that Hillbilly already has a cool down variable to his chainsaw alongside plenty of counterplay.
Concerning the Chainsaw add-ons update, I think it's safe to say no base kits will be nerfed.
Nurse had her fatigue too. This is not going to stop them.
Everyone knows what's next after the chainsaws, hatchet cooldown and multiple locker reload in either you need multiple to get full ammo or they are limited use.
mark my words.
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@AliXnm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745636#Comment_745636
OH. okay. Easy. I would at least make it like it was before.
• Killers can’t hit you over vaults or pallets.
• If I gave killers instant downs I’d let survivors have instant heals ONLY for themselves not a downed survivor.
• I’d let the game run off the own players latency not the killers to make it fair.
• AND I’d make the killers actually use their power to get kills (like nurse.) <- that’s why you don’t come across many.. Like spirit, use her phasing to speed up to you.
• Hit boxes are ridiculous they’d be fixed. Like the huntresses hatchets the hit box is too much It’s her power, either practice or don’t play her.
With everything else on your list I find it surprising you want power driven killer gameplay. I agree with you on that point, Nurse was a shining example of what a killer should and could be. Using her power in and out of chase and in unique ways.
I would not mind only 1 killer a year if it was an incredibly thorough and mechanically deep one. But the cooldown trend they keep shoving down on us... it feels so counter productive to be an m1 killer while you're on cooldown instead of embracing their power.
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Can confirm you can still travel the map with Nurse in a semi-decent fashion...
if you bring both cooldown addons :/
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@CrowFoxy said:
I already see at least styptic every 2-3 games so whatever.
And nobody plays Nurse, just Spirit. I always play Nurse tho.
Yeah current Nurse I don't mind insta heals it just wastes their time if I'm playing right.
PTB Nurse thanks the stars there aren't insta heals because she'd have no way to deal with it now :/
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@AliXnm said:
They came in handy when killers wanted to tunnel. What’s next our keys?! I swear killers are quick to complain about something to get us nerfed and it works! But when we complain we just need to “get good.” The devs are insane. Things get worse after every patch and you’d think they’d care to notice but no. 😒
If it's strong in solo it's going to be busted in SWF. Blame the SWF mechanic for having to bring survivors way down. If there wasn't assault squads that abused every single thing then we could keep some of the strong items like insta heals, but thanks to SWF we can't have nice things.
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@Dustin said:
Hoping Mori's are the next thing to receive an overhaul next. A lot of the things that make the game unfun at times are slowly being chipped away and it's actually nice to see.
The addon changes and Nurse changes are both fine honestly imo. We'll see how it is in the PTB though.
Have you played her yet? She's super clunky and not anywhere near the fluid design we have on live.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745538#Comment_745538
Did it really though? I've tried it in the past. All you need to do is put on Empathy and stay close. Bonus points if you're on voice chat and they can tell you when they're about to go down. You can spend that time working on nearby totems or generators, even.
Is this change going to be considered part of the SWF balancing we desperately need?
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@djsponge10 said:
They should’ve just made her fatigue time plus 0.5 seconds for each blink from original time so after 1 blink instead of 1 second fatigue it’d be 1.5 seconds fatigue and etc this is a slight tweak. What we received is a POWER TWEAK/CHANGE
Yeah thank you for understanding what "slight" means.
Playing her and without the cooldown reduction addons shes a hybrid m1 killer that can't do chases without her power.
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I think she feels extremely clunky now.
It punishes you for traveling because you have to awkwardly walk at survivors once you find them, and you will do this a LOT. They basically made her half m1 killer.
And because charging a blink stops the cooldown you get royally screwed over if there was like 1 milisecond left on it because you have to wait EVEN MORE just to attempt it again.
She's very fluid on live, extremely clunky on ptb.
They took the skill is reward away and replaced it with manage a stupid cooldown and walk more.
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@arslaN said:
Test the changes first and then start whining if nurse is actually weak now
She feels SO incredibly weak now. Easily B tier at best.
You can't get a blink cooldown while charging a blink up so if you want to chase someone you have to awkwardly walk at them every 2 blinks, and if they run far enough you're doing this cycle easily 3 times.
And most of the time it feels like you waited long enough for that next blink, but it didn't charge and you wasted the blink you just used, and you now have to wait for BOTH to come back.
She's very very bad now.
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@Get_Yoshimaster said:
I really dislike that they made a battlepass in a game you already bought + several dlc + cosmetics ( auric cells ), battlepass are acceptable in f2p game not in regular game, I'll not buy this and I'm disappointed with theses choices
I'm so used to having everything unlocked when I see what the base game comes with it is really gross to be asking for even more after all the DLC you need to buy if you don't want to wait 4 years to get all the perks from shrine.
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If fixing a broken mechanic that crippled m1 killers is the equivalent of gutting a killer that was the definition of skill = reward then I don't know what to say to you.
One of them was broken and had no counters. The other was Nurse.
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I agree, there were a lot more pressing balance issues (cough SWF) that needed to be addressed before Nurse should be touched. They're doing it in reverse, nerfing the answer to the problem and leaving the problem untouched.
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When survivors are playing friendly and not sweaty abuse you can use most any killer in red ranks. Because they are LETTING you do it.
If you face those sweat squads, and personally I do a lot more than I get chill games, you don't get to use any killer you want. I would love to use Freddy and Hag but they know exactly what to do and when to do it to make every chase as long as humanly possible and cranking all gens at the same time.
With Nurse I can actually influence the game and stand a chance IF I AM DOING WELL. I don't get rewarded for playing bad, only when I am accurately and consistently landing blinks do I create pressure. It is so hard to do that with any non S tier killer right now.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745202#Comment_745202
The purple one now gives you a borrowed time effect for 15 seconds, and the red one heals you passively for 8 seconds.
Like it still picks you up from the ground and now you have the wounds? That seems like the exact same thing with a ever so slight negative...
See that's what SLIGHT is devs, not what you did to Nurse.
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@Aura_babyy said:
Gen Grab Spirit is the strongest build in DBD
Currently you can get grabs with Nurse using Tinkerer but after these changes you will NEVER get a gen grab again because they will see you standing there before you can do anything. I get that it could be frustrating to not see her when shes starting a fast swing out of blink but it was part of her nuance that you could use it to do more things. Now they will always know if you're on the opposite side of a window or pallet and know not to go back over.
I really am wondering if there were anyone on the team who plays Nurse at red ranks at this point there are just so many small things that are getting nerfed here. "slight" change
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@Yung_Slug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745150#Comment_745150
I agree with that second statement, but I'm trying to look on the bright side of things, since we've already got more than enough complainers before the PTB has even been released. What is your definition of "add-on reliant"? Because it seems like you mean she can only be at her full strength with add-ons, which would describe every killer.
Addon reliant means they can actually have any control at all during the match without using addons. Base Nurse can do that, if YOU ARE SKILLED WITH HER. You can still loop and run from her too if you know how to, but I digress.
Now, take a killer like Doctor. You will not do well at all in redrank without his best addons, period.
Killers should be enhanced through addons, not need them to be viable at redranks.
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@ShadowRain said:
Agreed, why the hell does she need both fatigue and a cooldown? They haven’t even increased her walk speed to 115 too.. think they’re trying to kill the game
Last patch I would've disagreed with you and said that they were moving in the right direction finally.
But for every step they take forward they take 2 back.
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@ghostface_tryhard69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744849#Comment_744849
hopefully they will buff lower tier killers and rearrange the killer tier list a bit to allow for a fresh new meta, but yeah probably billy is next on the chopping block.
Hahahahahaha
They have recently shown they think B to low A tier is ok when 5 or 6 killers are there. They aren't interested in making a strong killer, just one good enough to get past green rank. If they really cared we wouldn't have so many D and F tier m1 killers.
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I hate being FORCED to use addons (cough any m1 killer if the balance team wants to actually do balance and make them not garbage) just to be viable.
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@PolarBear said:
Worst add-on. Why would I willingly turn off my power and become a loopable killer? That's the one strength Nurse has, not being loopable.
They really hammered in the "use this addon to make the game harder" with her addons.
There are 3 dedicated to making her power worse/unuseable and few that actually give rewards for using them.
I mean the nurses calling addon is a slap in the face to red rank nurses. You'll maybe get that once off a game if they're not potatoes. I really hate how they balance the game towards potatoes and ignore those survivors who aren't just because they're are fewer of themmmm
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@dfrenchiee said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744995#Comment_744995
Lol nurse absolutely requires skill. If you have no skill with her you'd be lucky to even hook someone.
I remember when I first started this game. I used Nurse and couldn't do ######### because I had no understanding of her power and thought she was dumpster tier.
Good to see past me was at least half right now...