coppersly
coppersly
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The only way I see this change being not a dumpster fire and removing a redrank killer is if it's constantly recharging after fatigue, even if you start another blink.
What made her good was her ability to travel and have rapid shots at a survivor. Now she doesn't have much of either and if the cooldowns are bad she's really gonna have a rough time.
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@Almo said:
Usually we have continued discussions about the issue. If it's never resolved, eventually someone higher up the chain makes a decision. :)
You guys might want to have that person examined if you think nerfing one of the FEW viable killers while leaving the raging eyesore of SWF alone was a good call.
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@EldritchElise87 said:
Because people for a long time have seen Nurse as the baseline for SWF groups, it was always teased Nurse would be nerfed, but the expectation was that other killers would be brought up to a better level, and maps reworked before this.
If they had hit us with this nerf after the map reworks (more numerous but unsafe pallets making things not so much a nightmare for m1 killers) then it feels bad considering they were quite clear about trying to calm the playerbase saying it was just the op addons.
I don't really care, I don't play much Nurse, and long term it makes sense. Dropping it at the same time as insta-removal is intresting for the meta though.
This is my biggest issue. There are a multitude of balance issues in game right now, the least of which was Nurse honestly. She was only strong with people who mastered her and they were generally in r1 anyways, where the devs claim they don't balance towards (yet SWF remains unchanged and we're nerfing a killer who was only good in red ranks anyways.)
If they had fixed a lot of issues and brought a lot of weak killers up then this wouldn't be a huge problem. But right now? Who are you going to play when Nurse gets tbagged by SWF? Your only other options are now Billy and Spirit and who knows how long before they're nerfed while maps are still torturous and SWF toxic squads remain unpunished.
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@arslaN said:
Nurse and spirit doesn't really require much skill.
Kill me with billy or huntress and yeah you have skill
Ok if she requires no skill please go into a rank 1 game with her addon/perkless and get a 4k in 5 minutes.
If it's so easy and requires no skill I expect to see something within a few hours.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Blah blah blah Spirit blah blah
sheesh...
For every one of these posts claiming Spirit, (current) Nurse, and Billy are the only viable high rank killers, there is a player out there doing perfectly FINE in red ranks with one of the other killers being claimed as un-viable.
Sure, survivors will see Spirit more frequently, but that’s partly bias fuelling further bias because of many players competitiveness. (Eg. I’m new to the game and I like to win, so I’m gonna jump straight into learning who everyone else says is the best without bothering to learn other killers)
And for every SWF group that isn't toxic there are 6 more that are.
Nurse had counters and all she needed was addons. Now we have gimmicky addons that won't be used much again (cd and fatigue with the single distance addon are going to be her main ones, the louder sound one seemed ok too) so that wasn't even useful for us. I used maybe 4 addons before this, and after it I'm going to use just 4 again. Fail. Adding on to this I think she has the most addons specifically designed to make her power worse. 3 different addons, how was this supposed to be good for a Nurse player?
Now she will be terrible in chase. With so much time to break LOS and get away by the time she's ready to engage in the chase again it's going to be impossible to find them if you miss the first blink.
And speaking of missing blinks, idk about you but there are tons of spots on maps that eat your blinks no matter how much you charge them. So now that we have a cooldown on blinks when we get screwed over by the game not letting us blink through something we have to be punished again with the cooldown just to get our original blink back?
These changes were not designed by someone who can play Nurse well, it seems to be designed by people who can't use her in red ranks and just watch youtubers play.
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@siyke26 said:
They may not have put comms in because it's unnecessary work with all the comms in place for people to use why waste man power designing and programming comms in when they don't have to that's man power going towards doing other more important things. Maybe they put perks like bond to help those who don't have friends to chat with. You know they had know about all the chat options when they made the game. Just please stop trying to say comms mean so much because it wasn't built into the game and people have it. Take swf out and all you killers will have to go play other games cause this one will die.
I'll ask you again, if it isn't a balance issue then why not implement it?
I'll tell you why, it gives the teams using it so many free perks and so much knowledge you're facing easily 5 or 6 survivors in comparison to a solo team.
It breaks stealth and trap killers making them virtually worthless outside of m1
It leads to genrushing and opening gates in under 5 minutes because they know if they're safe to be doing a gen
Bully squads who use perks designed to help solo survivors not get tunneled and turn it into x4 hookrush DS stun with a hard effort on comboing it again with another 5 second stun. When you have whole teams doing stun builds to bully the killer do you really think that's fair, fun, or balanced? No, it isn't.
Imagine facing 2 killers while you're in solo. It's not fun, you don't stand a chance.
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@Frozen said:
cuz they want 4k every game no matter what, they don't care about balance, fairness
You have to work with nurse to get kills. You don't just blink randomly and get hits.
You should've learned how to counter nurse with backtracking, breaking Los, etc. Now you can just run in a straight line with no strategy and be completely out of her distance.
So glad killers have to continually adapt to broken survivor mechanics (swf) but we're going to leave that broken mess intact while we dismantle one of the only answer to it.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743829#Comment_743829
Not to mention there's a green add on that removes 0.9s per charge, meaning with 2.5 seconds of fatigue you only need half a second to double blink.
I shouldn't have to use add-ons to make a killer viable.
There were so many more important issues to fix in the game before touching nurse. Now after the Nerf we're going to have useless m1 killers and 1 less viable red rank killer. SWF is still extremely unbalanced and very unfun but it's still around completely destroying the solo survivor experience.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743046#Comment_743046
You're measuring killers against the best possible survivor loadout with items and addons. Survivor items and add-ons aren't even as easy to come across as killer addons, because survivors don't make as much BP per match as a killer.
Let's not pretend that every match a killer gets into has insta-heals.
That's even worse than pretending every survivor game is against an Ebony Mori.
If Survivors need to use all the best perks and add-ons to be competitive with a Nurse, what does that tell you about how powerful she is?
A change to nurse is necessary. She isn't healthy for the game.
Let me flip it on you.
Why do I have to be hyper focused with me best addons and perks to even stand a CHANCE against a group at red ranks? If I'm not playing Nurse I can almost guarantee gens are getting done in 4 minutes no matter what I do. That's 4 minutes to get looped around long loops that take ages to win because the map design is so poor.
Nurse didn't break the mechanics, she just changed them. You have to think about where you're going to run and how you're going to do it. You don't just ring around the rosie pallet after pallet and L-wall until they get bloodlust and hit you. She had counterplay if you were good and learned how to run away.
Hell, one of her new addons makes it so she can never use her power in a chase at full charge because a survive can always outplay it and get the extra distance off of the new timer. (Full charge blink does immediate half blink addon) does that sound like a good Nurse mechanic? no.
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I was wanting to buy a Nurse statue because she's so fun and interesting.
I don't want a statue of garbage though.
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@Omans said:
I guess all those skilled nurse players (definitely not all the ones crying in these threads) in red ranks who played addon-less and still absolutely crushed the majority of the survivors they went against will have to think about actually using addons now. Oh no, what a tragedy.
It's impossible to gauge how big of a change this will be until the PTB, but giving nurse counterplay will only help the health of this game. This is a sign that the devs are going in the right direction. If they do a major map rehaul next, the game will be as balanced as it has ever been.
This is a good day for balance. This is not a good day for whiny nurse players who think they should be able to perform against the best survivors when they themselves aren't very good. (my first impression is that nurse will still be top, just not by a country mile anymore).
You don't nerf the only answer to toxic SWF squads until you deal with the squads. You nerf Nurse like this when there are more than 2 other killers in red ranks. Now there is way less a killer has to use to even kill someone in red ranks when survivors turn the sweat glands on.
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Even if you play Nurse well right now, the right team can still power through and get gens done despite downs in under a minute. When there is nothing that can challenge the death squads DBD will die a toxic and sad death.
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@Mr_K said:
they could of easily increased her fatigue time or even made the binding effect of fatigue more intrusive. To place two cooldowns for one action doesn't make a character fun to play.
You don't chase survivors with one blink. So chasing a decent survivor you are adding 6 seconds between each attempt, 3.5 being the blink regen.
Worst case just make her blind during fatigue and call it a day. This is not the right move.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742257#Comment_742257
Because you sucked everything out of the Nurse that made the Nurse, the Nurse. It doesn't take a test on PTB to know keeping the same stun, the same base speed, while adding more time in between blinks isn't a better time for the killer.
This. No matter how much wording you use in the end all they did was make the time inbetween blinks longer, while keeping all of her current negatives. This is a straight up nerf and no where near the "slight" base-kit change we were implied.
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You have to remember they don't care if some killers are dumpstet tier, but that also secretly extends to good killers. They're bringing everyone down to green rank viability and leaving red rank survivor issues alone. No one will want to play against that and slowly we have another rank problem yet again.
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@ad19970 said:
She's barely slower than survivors though during the last 3.5 seconds. It just gives survivor the opportunity to break LOS, the only counterplay they have against Nurse.
I could see them decreasing the cooldown of a blink to 2.5 seconds, I think that would be fine as well. Anything beyond that though I don't think would be good. Survivors having a bit more counterplay against Nurse is a great thing.
The counterplay doesn't change with these changes though. You still have to break LOS and not run in a straight line(unless that ends up being faster than she can blink to you after the changes, this is a high possibility) all these changes did was make the ability to break LOs so easy that by the time she is ready to blink to you you won't even be in the same jungle gym.
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@CrowFoxy said:
The URs are bad. So it doesn't matter.
Yeah they wanted to make sure that she didn't have a bunch of addons that nobody used and didn't affect muscle memory... then proceed to have 3 ones that hurt her power and 2 that change something that has muscle memory attached to it.
Devs are you ok is this a cry for help
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@Science_Guy said:
I love how this thread is taking two game states the OP has no firsthand experience with (one because it doesn't exist yet and one because they weren't around) and pretends there's any point being made by such forced comparisons.
Adjusting the strongest killer in the game is the equivalent of taking the game back to Summer 2016. Sure...
Adjusting the only killer who can effectively deal with SWF*
But SWF doesn't get changed and it ruins ALL the killers. Nurse just ruined people who ran in straight lines and couldn't do more than circle a pallet.
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@Mew said:
Adapt and overcome :^)
This isn't adapating. You can't adapt to survivors running so far away you need to do 5 blinks to catch up (from stun time to recharge time after the boost from hit + loops and LOs breaks) minimum cuts down what made her powerful and now she's just another m1 killer with a cooldown to sometimes use.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742685#Comment_742685
A chase can end when a killer stops to break a pallet.
If you think it's fine to defend the devs with wishful thinking, then I am more than fair in criticising them based on their actual past actions, as a basis for judging their probable future ones.
They are double-dipping on design intent for giving survivors a chance to get away. Fatigue already exists for this reason, so slapping yet another cooldown on blink charges themselves means they are either confused or are trying to mask how severe these this particular change actually is.
Good survivors could abuse maps with lots of walls and LOS breaks and evade Nurse for a long time.
Hell half the time I give up on house loopers because I can get someone else faster across the map than continue running around the house. But now? Haddon field will be impossible to do anything, and other maps with lots of LOS will destroy her.
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/741891#Comment_741891
So the 5% should always be allowed to Bully killers and win and deserve to never lose vs any killer?
Exactly. They always act like just because a small amount of people can abuse the game is not a problem but I guarantee you everyone they came up against sure as hell didn't have fun nor stood a chance.
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@Raccoon said:
It'll be interesting to see how well a killer that uses her power, which is on a cooldown, as her primary source of movement can keep up with a sprinting survivor.
Yeah it's like they forgot the original changes they did to her made her rely on blinking for movement.
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You're completely right. She has 3 add-ons that make her WORSE and one of them is an ultra rare????
And then one that makes her a terrible m1 killer?? Devs do you understand what makes nurse fun to use because these add-ons don't reflect that.
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@SteelDragon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742202#Comment_742202
it was made without voice chat FOR A REASON, ALSO why is it that some perks LIKE BOND are basically a little worse version of just asking "where is everyone and what are you doing" on comms? SWF gives you most of the aura reading survivor perks in the game FOR FREE, so each SWF survivor is playing with 4+ perks due to SWF comms. vs the 4 perk (3 perks because ruin is needed) killer
Exactly. If SWF wasn't so game-breaking and not an issue then why don't they add voice comms to the game? If it isn't a balance issue then there's no reason not to. If people are doing it outside of your game you should supply that function in game and have control over it.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742266#Comment_742266
And you won’t, we make a lot of mistakes while playing and don’t always notice them, when I lose I often misplayed hard.
I understand we all play badly sometimes, but when you're not and you still lose because they knew where you were the entire game and could safely be doing 3 gens at any given moment without risk of being hit? That didn't invovle your skill, so what then?
You HAVE to address the 5% of people who are so toxic and game-breaking. They ruin the game every single time for the killer they face and yet they're allowed to do it because boo-hoo we review bombed to get a mechanic the devs clearly didn't have in mind and have refused to balance for since.
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@NurseMainBTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742232#Comment_742232
As many other experienced Nurse players, I did destroy without pity a ton of groups of survivors. This changes were needed because less than average Nurse players were abusing the hell out of her with broken add-ons that took out all the skill needed to play her.
The limitors are, for what I perceived, not much of a deal as long as you know what you're doing. If she's too weak than she will be changed on the PTB, have faith.
I had faith when a dev said they would be "slightly" changing her base-kit IF they decided to. Now do you call this a small change?
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@VexTheHex said:
The SS Rank Killer for years is getting nerfed... that actually could create more diversity. She may no longer be god tier and some will leave her to play other picks.
It won't create diversity. You're going to see almost exclusively Spirits, then Billy's, and just random killers after that. And when everyone gets bored of only being able to play Spirit there are a few things that could happen:
1.)Killers derank so they can actually have fun and not sweat 24/7 and then lower rank survivors get even more upset than they are now (solo is bad but SWf is the devil)
2.) Killers leave the game (I plan to if the changes are as bad as I think) and soon there won't be many killers on and those who do play won't want to get bullied for hours in a row and play less/quit
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@NurseMainBTW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742202#Comment_742202
I don't play this game competitively. Not anymore, stresses me too much. You guys try and have fun and everything will change for the good.
I play Nurse, does this mean I'm a tryhard? Absolutely not, I just enjoy her no matter what. I can't rofl-stomp a group of people? That's fine, it's my fault.
Because her power reflects your skill level with it. Now it has extreme limitors on it that will ruin her viability.
I honestly enjoyed her power as. I find it to be the most fun power in the game. I'm not liking the purposed changes at all.
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@Regionlock said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/741999#Comment_741999
Except that is a scenario that doesnt happen often to begin with. You are thinking about the worst case scenario to justify her previous state. People still play this game solo none SWF, and don't run insta heals or purple toolboxes everygame. Believe it or not, bud.
So we should dumpster the best killer who HAS COUNTERPLAY might I add, just because the single most game-breaking thing(SWF) isn't game breaking every single game?
Why should I have to suffer on a killer because I got a death squad? At least with Nurse I had a chance to fight back. Now when you get a good team it's just gonna be look in the corner for 3 minutes.
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@NurseMainBTW said:
How are people have friends to play with?! They should be bAnNeD!
No, seriously. Get a grip, we didn't even tried her out. Just because she cannot be used anymore as a "Survivor bully" doesn't mean #########.
Playing with your friends is fine, if the game was DESIGNED around it. They did not make this game thinking we would have tactical squads on comms like we do today. It is most certainly broken at higher elo if you aren't playing one of the top 3 killers. You will just not have a good time. At all.
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@VexTheHex said:
Where's S and SS tier? She still ignores the basic defense mechanics of a Survivor.
Unless you put on one of her THREE addons that make her ability WORSE than it already is after the changes. Then you can't blink through walls and become even more useless.
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@Drazen said:
so they dont give a flying ######### about high ranks and actually balance game around rank 20s good job devs a completely reworked killer and calling it slight changes wow
They said they don't want to balance around there.
But if they weren't balancing for red ranks why are they touching a killer who is only good in red ranks?
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742145#Comment_742145
I wasn’t aware that being in red ranks prevented you from playing 14 of the killers, I’ve been playing LF,Trapper and Wraith just fine.
You not experiencing the toxic wave of red ranks does not mean it isn't there. I personally have a majority of my games being sweat fests where I can't take a single relaxing moment because they are abusing every loop, wall, and pallet for every single second it's worth while gens go flying by in a minute tops if I'm not on them.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742112#Comment_742112
We have 17 choices against squads teams, you just can’t win every game. (Nobody plays perfectly before anyone mentions it)
You don't have 17 choices at red rank, you have maybe 4. 3 now with Nurse going in the dumpster.
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Yeah I hope they go through with the changes. Then I hope they add a cooldown to Billy and Huntress. Then nerf Spirit.
So everyone quits killer and we can watch any new player get decimated by a SWf squad.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742080#Comment_742080
I think it's because survivors can escape and loop you during the cooldown, I can't see any other reason.
Billy will get a cooldown, 110%
We now have a killer who uses her power to get -> stunned -> wait for her power to recharge.
That's 2 different cooldowns you have to go through. They just want killer to be unplayable at red ranks man.
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@arslaN said:
Poor killers, victims all the time. So sad :(
We all understand the game isn't balanced. That being said, when SWF can destroy 90% of killers why can't we have ONE, SIGULAR killer who TAKES EFFORT AND SKILL to destroy a team be?
You play killer at red rank and enjoy the tbag after every loop and pallet buddy. It's not fun being bullied by 4 people who are supposed to be running from you.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742051#Comment_742051
Of course. In the last PTB, Freddy went from being one of the weakest killers to one of the strongest.
But he's still not top 3. Well he might be, after Nurse loses 2 or 3 tiers.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742039#Comment_742039
Unfortunately I was expecting a cooldown, it's the new thing
I don't know why they are going so hard on cooldowns. It takes interesting killers and makes them boring af until they can use their power again.
If I wanted to be an m1 killer I would've picked one :/
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Funny thing how you assume that a Killer, who can play without Perks or Add-Ons can be good for the game, when every other Killer (except maybe Billy) needs Add-Ons.
I mean that Nurse can use Perks like Deerstalker to slug Survivors speaks for itself, every other Killer does not have the luxury of wasting a Perk Slot for something like this.
I, and many like me, have been using Nurse as the template for what killers should be.
Should could use her power whenever she wanted without some stupid cooldown getting in the way and making her an m1 killer while on cooldown, and it rewarded your skill each use. You could not get a hit unless you were trying, that is rewarding skill (dumpstered because you'll never catch up to them now)
She could be used without addons and perks and still stand a chance. When there is no perks or items in a tournament like setting she was pretty much the only viable killer. Now it will be a breeze to walk over any killer with or without addons (de-pip squad style)
ALL killers SHOULD be red rank viable. Devs have made it clear they don't care about that though and are fine with a few killers being unplayable in higher elo. Nurse was one such killer that only worked in high elo anyway. GONE.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
Nurse is trash now, as usual survivors are victorious
I was joking yesteday when I said they should add a cooldown to her power.
Now the 2nd part of my joke shall come to bear fruit; all killers who main Nurse in red ranks leave. Red rank survivors start to bully and destroy the leftover purple and green ranks until new killers are facing 4000 hour survivors because there is no one else left but the most masochist of killers.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/741792#Comment_741792
This is a good thing. This gives them an opportunity to lose the killer which is- without a doubt- the most powerful in a chase. If you're concerned with losing the survivor, I would suggest using this:
Metal Spoon
Hitting a Survivor with a blink attack causes their sounds of pain to be moderately louder for 60 seconds.
That'll help you keep track of them even if they do break line of sight.
This is the problem with the balance team. You aren't interested in making a killer good in base kit alone, now you need addons to do anything. And cooldowns are not interesting for a killer. Would I rather have a power I can use whenever I want throughout the match or one limited to cooldowns and be an m1 killer inbetween?
It's clear what your team wants.
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@YukariTheAlpaca said:
The fact you need to wait 3.5 seconds to have two blinks is such a long amount of time. Just to catch up to a survivor and try and down them will most likely result in you chasing them as a one blink Nurse.
Yeah if you miss or get juked during a blink you're screwed. Maps with lots of walls and windows are going to be so bad for Nurse now instead of just meh.
Whole game is just gonna be bad for Nurse now.
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@bunnibeetea said:
I feel like Omega blink isn't so bad? It gives you more range definitely but it doesn't give her any more blinks. If they were to need it, they could either time down the distance slightly or make those add-ons increase fatigue time?
Currently the only range increase addon we know about makes her charge time slower. Hopefully not too slow though :(.
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I really really hope you're wrong and it's actually small QoL stuff and she's more or less the same.
At the same time, however, I would not be opposed to them throwing her into the dumpster with some stupid cooldown like Freddy or Spirit and we can watch a majority of red rank killers rage quit the now unplayable game and DbD slowly dies from it's own unpleasant players making the killer role super unenjoyable.
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I was excited on the stream but not that we have a more concrete idea I'm way less excited.
The removal of needing to sleep to hit is a great idea and should've been like that from the start. The removal of auras was ehhh. It would give real incentive to use the clock and get that extra time away from sleep world. Now it's just snares and pallets you can remember that are the only thing sleep affects besides lullaby. Not terrible but it's not exactly the power level a killer SHOULD have.
Speaking of snares I was hoping we'd get the pallets in base kit with snares being the add on.
His teleport sounded so good but now it sounds meh as #########. 45 second cool down, with 15% cdr/sleep survivor. I honestly don't get why they gate powers behind long CDs now. Nurse, hag, Billy, huntress are all relatively strong and top tier because their power isn't artificially limited like almost every single new killer. They can use it as an extension of themselves, not just something they can do once every so often.
Also the limited range on teleport looks to be just outside of 32m which won't give him map pressure, and unless they have an add-on to get rid of the telegraphed teleport I expect it to not be effective at all in high ranks. Also can he only teleport to unfinished gens? If so that's another huge limitation stacked on his already very infrequently used POWER. plus in EGC he won't be able to teleport AT ALL.
I like the lullaby stuff and invisibility at range.
As a whole I do think this is an improvement over current Freddy but literally a killer who can actually hit and interact with survivors was already a million miles above Freddy.
I'm disappointed with this rework though as they had solid ideas but were to afraid to give him real teeth. Now he's just another interesting killer not viable in high ranks.
STOP BALANCING KILLER AROUND POTATOES IT RUINS HIGH LEVEL KILLER.