bobateo
bobateo
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2355461#Comment_2355461
Or having ability to move.
Move. Think. Do more than stand in place and wait for the Killer to down them.
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Or look up. Or face a wall. Or clear the area before you pick up. I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2357051#Comment_2357051
Given that his rework didn't do anything but free up an add-on slot and slightly buff his lunge, they should technically be the same.
But mostly it's just that stealth killers aren't fun to go against because they get a lot of free hits and tend to never commit to chases.
I'm not sure what you mean about 'technically be the same'.
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Play surv more than Killer. Have yet to 'cry' over Lightborn. Don't count 'us' as a monolith anymore than you want to be counted as a Killer monolith.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2356962#Comment_2356962
Wraith is one of the stronger killers in the game and has never been particularly fun to go against because you often get no chases.
It's understandable that people don't like going against him, especially since one of his add-ons literally gives him mid-range Wallhacks.
I found Wraith challenging to go against before the increase in his uncloak lunge range AND that he can get in much closer than before. What were the complaints pre-rework?
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What addons are you running when you play Wraith?
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His lunge seems, and I'm letting seems do a lot of work here, a bit too long given how close Wraith can get now. I haven't been able to tell yet if it's latency or Wraith himself, but his lunge seems to be able to power through SB and Balanced Landing (as if that 'perk' needs more ways to render it useless).
But, I haven't been able to vs. Wraith enough to really say beyond the above at this point.
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@D3spair said:
This is my gameplay of Billy going against a Injured good looper that got mind gamed but got saved by Pressing E to undo his mistake.
So any suggestions on how could I have countered the Dead Hard on this? The Dead Hard here was both used as to dodge the hit and used for the distance to get to the Pallet. I can't understand people who defend Dead Hard that "Press E to be exhausted on Ground XD" or "or "Just bait it?". I commonly encounter these kinds of Dead Hards on the Survivors I encounter and I am curious how can you defend Dead Hard by saying its a Perk that does work most the time.
You swung into an obvious pallet play. Had you not lunged, you would have avoided the stun on the pallet.
Also "that got mindgamed". You're assuming that the looper didn't know that your mindgame wouldn't matter at that moment because they know the distance DH will get them, allowing them to avoid the obvious M1 and get the stun because you were overeager for the hit to end the chase. This is a common mistake ppl make with skilled DH users (note, I am not a skilled DH user, but I respect the the knowledge and patience other survs have when using this perk). They assume their mindgame worked when in reality, the surv read it and knew they had a clear path to not only avoid the down, but get the stun, and make it to another strong loop.
The flip side of this is when a surv doesn't read the mindgame correctly, DH's and ends up downed.
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Buff - Trapper. He needs 2 traps basekit and some way to hide laying traps from SWF. Not sure what that would look like, or if the alternative would be to give trapper a mild speed boost in chase.
Nerf - Bubba. His ability to eat through BT and outrun SB. Adjust either one of those so that saves against camping bubba aren't impossible. I'm fine with him downing multiple survs that make dumb decision. However, his ability to camp and defend a 3 gen is a bit much.
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@Bard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2356573#Comment_2356573
We don't need to define that.
BHVR literally already has code for that, which they use for achievements.
If the killer attacks while near you, and he doesn't hit you, you dodged it.
Does not address the issue of latency and how that would affect the perks.
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The dodge conditions are way too penalizing and how would that even work? How close does the Killer have to be? How (likely) broken is that going to be with latency hits? Sounds like you're trying to cram DH's dodge into other perks and punish the surv if it doesn't work. Which dodging with DH is already a coin toss on it's own.
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@Liruliniel said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2341801#Comment_2341801
I disagree on the self heal thing. Self heal implies your not being tunneled so you don't need it. Just saying 🤷
Not really. It's possible to heal while being chased, especially if you have a fast med kit and/or perks.
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@Starly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2346398#Comment_2346398
When did I promote toxicity?
Most of toxicity about NOED comes from survivors, I understand how inconvenient it it is to look for totems. Bring perks to help then. I know that you don't want to change your perks for something "stupid" like totems, but that's why small game and counterforce exist.
Ya kinda said that NOED is a middle finger to survivors. Suddenly flipping the bird at some rando who's done nothing to you would be a bit toxic, don't you think?
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@yeet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335401#Comment_2335401
you don’t need perks and items to do 5 gens in 4 minutes
Ya do, unless the Killer is bad. 80 seconds is base gen speed. In my matches, survs don't all spawn on separate gens most of the time. There's generally 2-3 of us in the same area, if not all four. The first 1-2 gens may go in 80 or less seconds. If you're REALLY unlucky on spawns, you'll have 3 pop before the first down. But that's an outlier and assumes that the Killer hasn't ID'ed a three gen and is actively protecting it or that you've spawned in the optimal locations.
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On fast Killers BBQ has use, or even Killers trying to protect a 3 gen. In most surv matches WGLF has very limited use without the BP.
My experience with WGLF is that I'm too far away or the Killer is sticking way too close to make it's other effect viable outside of SWF.
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@FancyMrB said:
I am not a very good killer ^^" By that I mean I am not very good at playing them, but that doesn't stop me! I am just here to have fun and enjoy playing both sides.
The tldr; learning Nemmy - got stomped by swf - not being toxic and clearly learning - title question.
Anyways I am learning to play Nemesis so I guess you can say I'm extra bad right now hahaha. I got into a match which I assume was a swf and 3 gens were done before I got my first down. No worries its just practice.
I go to hook that survivor and 2 other survivors come and body block the hook from me. By the time I got to the hook and punched them each once the other survivor wiggled free. Clicky clicky but dance ensued. Oof. Felt bad.
I wasn't being toxic, I even brought cake, and it must have been clear that I wasn't very good :P So why the body block? Worst case I would have gotten 1 more survivor hooked. It was clear they were the winners. Plus, don't we all get more bloodpoints for hooking and unhooking?
Anyways, I see a lot of 'killers suck and play toxic' threads and wanted to share my match experience. When I play my stronger Killers I adjust my play depending on the survivors. If there is a DC then I play extra soft so the match can go on but its not a steam roll. You get my point ^^
So my question is, as a Survivor do you ever dial back your play style if you notice a Killer is new/ learning? Or do you feel you always gotta be kicking but and going full throttle since there are a lot of toxic killers out there?
(I am not saying body blocking is bad btw, it has a time and place, but after that experience the match was done for me. The 4th gen popped and they made it clear hooking wasn't going to happen so I went to admire the zombies (which are totally wonky btw ^^"))
Thanks for reading!
Yep, if the Killer has less than two sacrifices throughout the match AND I don't have challenge/daily that requires me to escape, I'll willing give them them a sacrifice. If it's been a good match and it's 2 to 2? I probably still will as long as the above challenge/daily isn't in effect. Even better if I'm the last and the Killer wants to spend ECG playing around with powers and looping.
As for why the body block. That's tougher to answer. You might be facing ppl who just don't care about your skill or how you do in the match. They're focused on their team. They could just be jerks. They could just not trust that you're as inexperienced as you seem. There have been plenty of Killers that have used the 'I'm new' or ' I want to farm' trick for Survs to be leery. I never offer up a sacrifice until ECG for that very reason.
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@sulaiman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343410#Comment_2343410
But thats on the killer, i find myself soo often in the situation where are only me and another survivor is left, and i get found because i do gens, and the killer just hooks me and let the other one escape.
Some then claim in endgame chat that they would rather go for the other one and let me go, but couldnt find him and wanted it to end. And this happens most of the time.
So, killers just encourage hidding, because the guy who doesnt is the guy who dies.
Not always, I had a couple of Killers let me go for the very reason that I went back for my teammates and sacrificed myself to let the other get out. Not often. But it does happen once in a Blue Moon.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2343197#Comment_2343197
I have 1,500 hours as a solo survivor and I'm screwed over like this regularly. Though there has been more face camping during this event. It kinda makes me laugh.
Facecamping? I wish. It's been tunnel city and sweaty devour hope for me.
Edit: Add Sweaty NoED Bubbas
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Why make him look .... scrawnier dbd? Why?
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@KeiOrtem said:
I dont understand survivors who bodyblock right off the hook when they have BT. Like I'm not trying to tunnel you but if you are actively stopping me from going after another survivor instead of you, I will take this as an open invitation to put your butt right back on that hook. I just find it funny that there are players who do that and then claim I'm tunneling. Hun you are actively giving me the go ahead to down you after BT runs out.
If they're claiming you're tunneling because they take a hit, meh. Ignore them. I will take the hit if the Killer is close and my teammate rescuing me is injured. That's just a sound play as opposed to giving another down. BT is going to run out anyway and Killer could still choose to chase me and just wait for it to be gone.
And before anyone goes off about unsafe hooks, when a Killer is soft camping, there maybe no 'safe' unhook option to take.
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Eh, kind of a crappy thing to do overall. The game has enough of people trying to take advantage of others outside of the normal confines of the game. Is it the worst of the worst? Nah, but generally not cool.
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That'd be a good buff to Inner Strength. Not too strong and would incentivize totem cleansing even more.
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@Edgars_Raven said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335536#Comment_2335536
And my point was thats still true for ds. If i down someone that just got off hook i am well aware, and even still assume, im about to get stabbed. The only thing thats changed with ds is if i see you on a gen injured and you just got off hook, game on
No, it really isn't. The time is shorter and the perk can deactivate by doing almost anything else. Survs can no longer do certain things with the safety of DS at their backs. And just to note, I'm not saying they should have. While a Killer can patrol two gates at end game, usually already having gotten a down with NOED and a hook nearby, with NOED safely at their backs. Just survs having to look for NOED opens up opportunity for Killers both before and after the gens are finished. It has way more use than current DS.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2334876#Comment_2334876
but SWF with comms essentially gives survivor 20 perks for free.
So why can't killers get corrupt intervention as basekit? It only lasts 2 minutes and goes away forever.
it completely fixes the early game problem without spending months to fix the spanws.
Because you aren't always playing with SWF or even decent SWF.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335508#Comment_2335508
It is more powerful than second chance perks because, well, by definition a second chance is always used, or if not, it is because you didn't even need it.
NOED is all or nothing. It is absolutely broken if you let it come online end game and decide to be altruistic without first cleansing it, for whatever reason, absolutely. But if you rush out competently, or cleanse it before going for a save, the perk is absolutely a wasted slot.
You are fixating on when it gets value and attributing its power to that state alone. It is pretty fair in that regard specifically.
Downing people in one hit? Not fair. Running the perk, fair. If that makes sense.
I'd almost agree with you except the Killer can force the decision by opening the exit gates. And the very nature of NOED let's the Killer know almost exactly where to find survs. They're going for the exit gates. Of course they are. They finished their true secondary objective - the first being to escape.
i guess the closest I can equate it to is if surv had a perk that required the Killer to kick all thrown pallets on a map before they could down a surv in end game. (Not exact, but the closest I can come to at the moment.) Pallets are the Killer's choice to break or not with some pallets being more valuable - like shack - to break than others. Dull totems aren't even that. The only in game value to breaking them is to prevent NOED (or if you're running inner strength). Break them and Killer doesn't have NOED? Congrats, you just wasted your time and perhaps threw the game for your team. Couldn't find that one totem on [x] map? Your efforts have been voided. Have a NOED.
I would say that NOED isn't "all or nothing" most of the time. It's only that way if you sacrifice all survs before the gens are completed. Sure, you didn't need it then, but are you sad about not bringing it? Probably not. A Killer just 3 perked their way to a 3-4K. (Maybe a 2K if you got REALLY unlucky with gates.) If you can regularly down and sacrifice all 4 survs before the fifth gen pops with 3 perks, then you don't need NOED at all. Which isn't the same as surv 'second chance' perks which entirely depend on the Killer's playstyle to be relevant.
But Noed also gives a speed boost along with a one hit down. Most gates spawn within spitting distance of each other. The Killer can down the surv they're chasing, hook them near a gate, and force ECG with easy access to where all the other survs are going. Even if the survs find that totem and cleanse it, the ECG still heavily favors the Killer.
Even if the Killer did nothing else all game.
Again, I don't hate NOED, I just don't think that anyone looking at the game from a truly competitive aspect can call it fair.
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@Edgars_Raven said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335523#Comment_2335523
It still does, ds still functions in the way it always has, it just stops giving you invincibility once its clear youre not being tunneled
Regardless of the fact that DS is a bad 'anti-tunnel' perk, my point was that old DS gave an exceeding amount of value for what it was: a one time use perk that could be avoided - AT HIGH COST - for the Killer. Which is the same as NOED. Sure, survs can avoid it, but it has a tremendous cost to avoid.
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@I_am_Negan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2317089#Comment_2317089
Well that's just how everyone wants to play now on both sides. I don't know what to say players just want the match over with as quick as possible. NOed is just something you'll have to deal with if your whole team is dead before 1 gen is done there's no point in breaking totems, but if gens are getting done you should start looking for totems. There are perks to help find them remember where they spawn at, and look for them on your adventures😀
Don't most Killers also want the match over quick? The more time survs have, the more gens they can get done. DBD is all about time. If you don't get at least 2-3 gens done before the first hook, survs are going to have hard time. If the Killer doesn't do the same, they're going to have a hard time.
Totems, and doing them, take survs away from doing the objective that let's them WIN for something that might not even be in play. Hunting totems to cleanse them might very well kill a solo team. Not because they did anything wrong, but because they extended the match.
Isn't that same as old DS? Killers had to fear it because it kept them doing their primary objective?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2318916#Comment_2318916
The Killer had to use a Perk slot for the Noed? The problems with SWF (which are many) are irrelevant here. And I manage to cleanse an average of three Totems a game without using a Perk at all.
Sure, the Killer has to use ONE perk slot for a perk that could allow them multiple one hit downs (plus a speed boost to help that out!). Just search youtube for Killers who wait until the end of the match when they get NOED to actually start playing.
No, SWF isn't irrevelant. It's very relevant when it comes to dealing with NOED. A good SWF group can decide how they want to handle it where soloq has to guess what everyone else wants to do.
You may cleanse 3 totems a game. Most of the time I do too. But those games where NOED is active? Hah, gimme a break. It's free downs and better than any singular surv 'second chance' perk. And that's okay. It's a game around slasher horror, but don't pretend that NOED is some 'very fair' perk. It isn't.
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@Power_Guy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2317431#Comment_2317431
The thing is, if NoED were 100% removed; Survivors would never do totems (Barring Hex: Ruin, which is obvious if it's in play).
The THREAT of NOED ensures Survivors slow down & cleanse totems, which buys Killer's time to kill. Of course, that is also WHY Survivors whine; they want to genrush as fast as possible, and anything counter to that goal is 'OP' and 'broken'.
Incorrect. Survs would still do totems for Ruin (assuming the Killer has gen pressure) and for Devour Hope. NOED doesn't need to be removed, but lbr about the impact it has on a match.
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@bm33 said:
I find it pretty funny this post was only two days ago.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/IZDXL0VZ3TDH/20210628-161435-jpg.jpg
Counterforce does not, by any means equal noed.
Noed - I don't have to meaningfully exceed at my primary objective until the end of the match where I could have a HUGE advantage.
Counterforce (or any totem perk) - I have to actively not pay attention to my primary objective to avoid a penalty for paying attention to my primary objective.
tbc - i don't dislike NOED, but the two are not one in the same.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335356#Comment_2335356
Not really. It’s easy to see why BHVR chose RCPD. Resident Evil is one of the most popular franchises of all time. It’s natural that BHVR would presume many DBD players would already be familiar with the layout of RCPD.
Even if pple aren't familiar with it, why should we be? I LOVE RE2 and continue to play it. But there's still twists and turns for me on this map. I want more of it, not less before I decide.
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@thrawn3054 said:
Do you actually care about escaping? Outside of a daily, a challenge, or an adept does it actually matter to you? Personally I couldn't care less. All I want is a fun game with good points. After that escaping is irrelevant to me. Am I alone in this?
Depends on what you call a 'fun game'.
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@yeet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2327721#Comment_2327721
SWF does not get a bonus to gen speed last time i checked, it works as long as the survivors just do solo gens
Sure they do. SWF will have complimentary perks and items. Soloq can't do the same.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2327733#Comment_2327733
It's not difficult, but from my experience in 4.5k hours and most of those being solo q, i'd say over 80% dont do it.
After playing solo q I don't like to think the better of people, because that's just not the reality. I'd rather think worst and not get surprised.
It's difficult to split up on gens when you have no idea what anyone else is doing, can't coordinate perks, items, etc. It's a shame that ppl equate SWF 'gen rush' to soloq just doing what we do.
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@calem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335326#Comment_2335326
I agree with your first sentence. Hence why I think Spine Chill is so good, you always get use out of it in every game. Unbreakable is a high reward, but you don't use it every game. Or even every second game. It isn't very consistent.
I'm also not saying it completely counters Spirit. Nothing does. But it does help a decent amount against a killer that is largely unplayable against. Against stealth killers, yeah, it does counter them. The whole point of their stealth is to sneak up and surprise survivors, which you can't do with Spine Chill active. Sure, Wraith can moonwalk and stuff, but what about Ghostface who actually is forced to look at the survivors? Completely countered. Tier 1 Myers who also has to stalk? Spine Chill completely counters that.
If you don't think 36 metres of warning is huge, then I don't know what to say, it's literally a bigger warning than a terror radius. Every extra second you get in this game is crucial, and if you don't think that extra time to get somewhere safe is good, then I can't take what you say seriously.
And no, I didn't say you must use Iron Will with it. I am saying I think both perks are comparable and completely counter so many killers when used together. Spirit is a great example, having both Iron Will + Spine Chill against her will help tremendously. Both are still extremely good when used without the other.
I don't think it counters myers for the following reason: he needs LOS. If Myers has LOS on me, I can see Myers. All SC might do in that situation is give a bit more advanced warning. But it does NOT tell me what direction he's stalking me from. The more directions he has, the more I have to check. Sometimes, I might get it in the first direction I look. Other times? I won't. It's only in the first scenerio that he gets slightly less Stalk from me than he might otherwise from a surv who know Myers enough to know that you break LOS immediately with the big white mask staring at you from over a wall/across the way. All of this is something a surv who's checking their surroundings can achieve without the perk. (And doesn't not account for Tombstone Myers at all.)
GF is harder to spot than Myers. I have had way more luck breaking a GF out of stealth when they're camping me, than with SC. SC can inhibit GF some but not as much as Myers.
Wraith - his uncloak lunge is so big that SC is barely a warning. If you know you're facing a Wraith and you're running SC, well, you better start running.
Pig - Stealth is only one weapon in Pig's arsenal. (Please note, I'm not saying that Pig's arsenal is overall excellent). That said, I've seen Pig's trying to camp/stealth get run for 5 gens without anyone running SC.
A 36 meter warning is more hinderance than to help to a inexperienced to medium surv. They will jump off gens at any 'flick' of SC. I know. I've seen it. Which is absolutely free pressure for the Killer. SC takes a lot of game sense and build to use well. I'd think that a welcome change from a slew of surv 'second chance' perks.
Also, SC and Iron Will won't help tremendously against spirit since she can literally stand still and win a chase. (But tbf, Spirit, tho I love to play her, is an entirely different beast.)
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2335286#Comment_2335286
I'm the Red Rank Survivor that can infer a ton of information from the perk. And that's the use of Spine Chill that I'm talking about.
I keep track of where I last knew the Killer to be and the likely direction they would come from based on my location in the map/the gens that have been completed, so usually when its lighting up I'm not surprised about where they come from.
Also, I use Spine Chill to be greedy so flickers of the perk don't scare me at all. I use the perk to tell the difference between the Killer chasing someone else in the area and actually knowing where I am and coming to chase me.
Okay, what if you have no idea where the Killer's last position is?
And to your last point, sure. I've greed'ed a lot of gens that way. But it's not the fault of SC that a Killer, in a chase, doesn't realize that a gen is being done right next to them.
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@calem said:
I agree Spine Chill is one of the best perks in the game, and it's also a perk that you get good use out of every single game. It completely counters and denies stealth killers of any surprise hits whatsoever, and is also good against Spirit who we all know is a problematic killer. Even if you don't go against a stealth killer, Spine Chill gives you a huge warning of when the killer is coming and plenty of time to get somewhere safe. The 6% action speed bonus is just the cherry on top of an already busted perk. I also see literally no reason to not run Spine Chill (if you're just trying to win with the best perks possible).
I've said the same about Iron Will. I can't think of a scenario in-game where you wouldn't want it. Having the Iron Will + Spine Chill combo makes it literal hell for killers, as both of them effectively counter the strengths of so many killers. It's obviously different in a SWF, but I honestly think the best build for solo survivor is Iron Will, Spine Chill, Kindred, and one flex slot to suit your preference.
I'm honestly surprised we don't see more complaints about Spine Chill because I really do think it's lowkey one of the most OP perks in the game.
You should get use of perks in a game. Except for 'high risk, high reward' perks. Unbreak-A-Bill is high risk, high reward. Killer wants to slug? Suddenly you pop up and are gone. Pressure lose Spine Chill is small-to-medium risk, small-to-medium rewards. The amount of of both determined by the survivor's skill.
It does not deny and counter stealth killers entirely. And no, it's mediocre against Spirit.
The warning it give is not huge. Not by any shot.
The reason you don't see more complaints against SC is because the perk itself doesn't have a huge utility. If a surv has to slot 1-2 more perks to make 1 perk good. Then that 1 perk isn't that great.
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1.) Speed bonus not that much. And if the Killer is looking at you long enough to make that boost meaningful, you better be running.
2.) It has downsides - you don't know which direction the Killer is facing you from. On maps where you have 2 paths to choose from, that's literally a 50/50. (See: almost every area in an indoor map.) On outdoor maps, unless you're relatively in the open (which can have its own problems), you still have the same thing: you don't know from what angle the Killer is approaching unless they're in LOS. Which, lbr, if the Killer is in clear LOS, it's not SC keeping them from getting a down. SC 'flickers' and for nervy SC users, those flickers are pretty much free pressure for the Killer. It takes a lot of game sense to get real use out of the SC. As with the 2 points before 'nervy' SC users are as likely to run into the Killer as not and that is .... more free pressure. On maps with two floors, SC is even more uncertain as the Killer can be on a different floor and SC will 'flicker' or stay lit up even tho the surv is in no immediate peril.
Combined with a perk like Bond and Resilience, SC can have more utility to the average surv. But hey that means they only have one slot for something else which should be a blessing.
Unless they're really good at looping and have excellent game sense, then the Killer might be in trouble. But no one says you have to chase that surv.
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@Laluzi said:
Seems to me like it'd be an easy solution to make a flat requirement for both sides: if you find the crown and score over 10k points, you keep it.
-Killers will basically always get 10k points unless they play horrendously, like one hook all game bad.
-Survivors don't have to escape, just have to perform moderately well in the match - which means doing nothing but running around the map looking for the crown, getting it, and suiciding won't net you the crown and you have to actually play the game.
I like that idea a lot. Putting the bar as 'survivors must escape' is just too high, in general, for soloQ. I got 1 crown last night and I doubt I'll be looking for more lol.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Killers... you really had nothing to worry about. Counterforce (on its own) is not the “Overpowered Hex Destroying, game breaking perk” some made it out to be.
Having used the perk a lot, I find that it’s simply not practical trying to remember where exactly an aura was revealed, and it’s most definitely not a good idea to be heading towards any revealed auras straight away. Sure, the extra speed is nice, but Small Game still outshines this perk. Being able to know how many are cleansed, and be alerted when you’re near one that needs to be searched out is WAY better than what Counterforce does if Counterforce is used on its own.
Yup. Not sure why that was that ever in question tbh. Small game is just way better at totem detection except, maybe, on multi level maps and doesn't have the drawbacks counterforce does on detection. Now counterforce AND small game can allow someone knock out totems fast if that's a goal.
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@Axx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2317905#Comment_2317905
So? Next time cleanse the totems. Stop making excuses. If I miss a blink on Nurse I don't go "oh man, that dumb survivor had to move, it's their fault I missed!". I say oh well I made a mistake, and I try again. Tunneling is apart of the game. Just like sitting on gens while injured, aka "gen rush". People on this game need to stop being so entitled and learn to adapt and just play the game. I get tunneled, you get tunneled. I get hit with NOED, you get hit with NOED. It is not a big deal. I'm not entitled to win, or escape, and neither are you.
Ya sure? You're blaming your teammates in a game where match making is questionable at best. Your speaking in purely hypotheticals: Am I getting a team at my level matched with a Killer at our level?
The answer is: no, you're probably not.
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@DwarvenTavern said:
So, let's say, hypothetically, there isn't a lawsuit in the works (really hope it ends soon, the suspense is killing me) and he's available for the roster.
Would any one be in favor of him being added or opposed to the idea? I'd absolutely would love to hear what everyone thinks.
I ask this because I started reading a fan made comic about Friday the 13th and it just rekindled the love I thought I lost for the series and it's just nagging me to death DX
I think the biggest problem is how would they make him different from Trapper? I'm not sure they can in a way that stays true to the F13 series. I say this as a huge fan of F13.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2315615#Comment_2315615
It is not hard. If they try to be creative, they can fix problems.
Add more objectives for survivors. For example "Finish 5 generators and find 5 keys for open gates." and now survivors can not escape with genrushing.
For punish and stop tunnel, make DS basekit for survivors and make stun longer (10 seconds). And make it active after both hooks. And now killer has to slug you (This will give you chance) or they will eat stun and they will waste so much time.
Your idea many have merit and definitely worth testing. That said there is an inherent 'push pull' at play here. Survivors will always need to finish their objectives as fast as possible to guarantee escape. Once the first hook is made, 'objective' progress slow down considerably for survs. On a small map, it's death knell if at least 3 gens haven't popped/are close to popping because it's much harder to heal safely and do the remaining gens safely. On a map that's larger with crappy RNG for the Killer, there is by far less risk.
One might say "just limit map size and RNG" but then the maps become stale and boring. The ones that are definitely surv or killer sided are ID'ed and the map offering wars being.
I don't think DS need to be 10 secs, but more that it needs a way to make it obscure/confusing where the surv went. I cannot tell you how many Killers I've seen eat the DS or BT hit and then just plow after the same surv, regardless of what anyone else does. I managed by sheer luck to push a Legion to the edge of wall, costing them time, but instead of hitting me, they went AROUND me to chase the person off their second hook. That's not a limited experience.
That said, I don't think the devs want to do much about 'gen rushing' or tunneling and camping. This game isn't meant to be a balance of skill at the end of the day.
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@Axx said:
The solo survivor experience is bad because of other survivor players. If 4 competent solo players magically get into a lobby together, the game is usually a cake walk unless the killer is a Spirit, or good Nurse. If more players took the time to improve via learning to loop, not 3 gen, and all the other things competent efficient survivor players do, solo survivor would be much better.
I just played a game where my teammate went down in 5 seconds vs a Clown and got put into the basement. Then teammate number two proceeded to go into a locker and get grabbed and then taken to the basement where the other teammate was. This was within the span of the first minute of the match pretty much. Is that the killer and his "oppressive perks" fault? Or was it the fault of my teammates not playing well?
People on both sides, but especially survivor mains, need to learn to play better. This game is highly survivor sided once you learn how to loop and do gens efficiently. It isn't the dev's fault solo survivor is unpleasant. It's on the players. If I, or any competent survivor player can learn how to loop and so on, I'm sure most players would be able to learn how to as well. I'm not a rocket scientist and it isn't super hard to learn.
Honestly, the only complaints I have as a solo survivor is facing Spirit and my teammates. Other than those two things, survivor is chill. Especially whenever I get competent teammates. Then the game is a breeze. Also for the tunneling. It is apart of the game. You win some, you lose some. I even tunnel people when I feel like I need to when I play killer. You have to remember, this is a pvp game, and the killer's goal is to kill you. If you can't hack dying in a pvp game, you should find a pve game to play instead I guess.
And? I've played soloq where the first teammate found ran the Killer for a decent amount of time, got tunneled out of the game, the rest of us slammed out gens as fast we could and still ended up with 2-3K because of perks like NOED. One experience does not make the majority of games.
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@DoritoHead said:
I actually do sort of agree with the first 2 paragraphs.
Also,
Not only does DS punish you for playing the game
Not entirely true, the killer is the one punishing you for playing the game by tunneling. (But DS will work if you're still being tunneled so...)
Current DS does not punish the survivor for playing the game smartly, but old DS punished the killer for playing the game at all in a lot of situations. A fair trade-off if you ask me.
Eh.... not quite. New AND Old DS did nothing against actual tunneling. It's a 5 sec stun, with 2 secs eaten up by the animation (unless that changed while I wasn't looking). 3 secs isn't all that much when a Killer decides they want you out. I'm fine with the DS nerfs, but it should also be apparent that if this was a perk meant to discourage tunneling, it was and is crap at it.
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@Apollos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2317859#Comment_2317859
They changed that iirc. There's always an obsession so you can hide DS now. But in my experience, it's only successful if other people are there to help you or if the killer gives up. The only really good anti-tunnel tactic is teamwork imo.
Really? Well darn, I missed those patch notes then. I will have to check.
Agreed. If the Killer wants *you out. You're out. Unless you just have the Killer's number that day and they refuse to disengage. Even really good team work is ... questionable in solo Q. It requires the right people having the right perks and using them at the right time in the right circumstances.
I'm fine with survs having a narrower margin of error than Killer. It's a 4v1 game. I, personally, just don't agree with the "the game/player made me play this way" mentality. Why complain about other players finding the most efficent way to do their objective when you're full throttling into the most efficient way to do yours?
(All *yous are general yous, not specific to a player or set of players.)
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@drpynz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2317552#Comment_2317552
DS is a get off the shoulder free card. it's not a heal up and do a gen for free card. So much pressure is taken off everytime someone gets off the shoulder.
No, it really isn't. It's a five second stun (iiirc) where 2 seconds is eaten up by the animation alone.
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@Apollos said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2317404#Comment_2317404
It's anecdotal. I've only seen keys used maybe 10 times max since I've been playing, but some people playing killer see them constantly. Tunneling and camping has noticeably increased for me while I play lately, but other people haven't noticed a difference.
I see keys in maybe 1 out of 20+ matches and that includes people bringing broken keys. The fact is that DS was never a great 'anti-tunnel' perk and it's nerf exacerbated it's failing in that area. People don't take it because it's restrictions vs. it's benefit are lackluster at best. So now when there is no obsession, the Killer knows that no one has the perk. This is especially deterimental in solo Q when they can't coordinate perks.
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@Power_Guy said:
The bottom line is this:
Survivors will use any perks and tactics to try their hardest to escape.
So why should Survivors also dictate what Killers can and cannot do under the bunk of 'lazy tactic' or 'only noobs do that'? All Survivors will do is try to prevent Killers from playing as optimally as they do.
Of course they will try their hardest to escape. That's their goal.
But I have question for you. Do you think Survs shouldn't 'genrush' (note, I don't believe genrush is a 'thing' outside of very specific perk and item usage)? Do you think second chance perks are op? Do you think any perk or items survs have to let them detect the Killer is op?
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I was talking about one of the tactics your teammates can take in direct response to the comment saying that survivors 'allowed' tunneling to happen/be effective. You're also assuming that every survivor getting tunneled is: good enough to run the Killer that long, are hooked near a place with a strong tile that can be used, that the Killer isn't also proxy comping making your rescue risky af, that your teammate has BT and you won't have to use it for them, and you're running DS and/or DH (which won't help you a dead zone unless maybe you have them both).
So, no, there are a lot of instances where being tunneled out of the game isn't fun at all.
But going back to the initial replay, I was addressing the idea that the surv being tunneled 'lets' it be effective.