bobateo
bobateo
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I wouldn't be really mad, but I'd rather see Mr.X, mid-change Birkin, Nemesis (but only if he growls out STARS every now and then), or Mendez.
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Overall, I think SC is fine because it does come with the built in downside of not knowing the Killer's angle of approach or if the Killer is already in chase (sometimes). I've seen survs running SC run into the Killer pretty often because they get spooked and pick the wrong direction (especially, on indoor maps). The bulk of it's 'power' comes with survs who know the maps really well and are already keeping an eye on everything around them to have a good idea of what angle the Killer is most likely to approach from and react accordingly.
It can pair really well with Resilience, but that comes with the downside of staying injured and additional vault speed won't save you from latency issues.
Lowering it's effective range or making Killers/status effects immune to it may very well stick it in the trash bin outside of vaulting builds.
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@MrPsych said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2154868#Comment_2154868
Yikes, that doesn't sound great at all!
Yep, the Hills Were Hell.
Sometimes you could get free if you wiggled just right and often enough before you got found. Most times you watched as you were down and hooked without recourse.
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Probably neither.
So much depends on matchmaking and the RNG of the maps.
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@Venoxxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2152943#Comment_2152943
I mean, survivors really aren't the root cause. We'll never know who started this entitled toxic war between both sides but that's also just how games are... it's not just DBD. However, both sides are at fault. I've seen killers call survivors toxic just for knowing how to run a loop. I've been called toxic because I enjoy swf over solo. Killers also have their imaginary set of rules. We can't SWF, we're not allowed to loop or do gens, we can't escape, we can't have hatch, we aren't allowed to do anything and we deserved to be tunneled/camped to heck even if we did nothing wrong, etc. Now, yes, survivors also have their rules but don't just point a finger at one side.
Just stick with "People choose to play one side and due to that, refuse to understand how the opposite side works" period. Which, yes, is pretty much what it is.
Just to add, there probably is no 'side' who did it first. The game has 10's of thousands who people who play/did play and people can be jerks, have unrealistic expectations, or have a bad day/match that they decided to take out on someone else. No one has to be a Killer, Survivor, or only play one side to meet any of those criteria.
100% agree with you.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2137539#Comment_2137539
When you tunnel someone, you want to remove them from the game as quickly as possible to make the game easier and more achievable from the get-go. If you are going to tunnel someone, this will not change anything. The moment someone is hooked then unhooked, the killer will make a mad dash for the person. A hook counter will do nothing towards that. The moment that person is unhooked, you will go after him/her while they're injured. You will already want to tunnel and showing who has/hasn't been hooked won't change that.
Maybe? I do see your point, but I can also see the other side. Are you dealing with survs using the same char and similar skins? Tunneling out one person might be harder. Were they able to get a successful save and Killers attention had to shift to other survs, making who has been hooked how many times harder to track? It's definitely something I wouldn't mind trying, but I have some reservations about it.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
The same as the survivors. (Edit: The reasoning is, it would help the killer make better choices and if the killer wants to farm with the survivors, he/she won't accidently kill one.)
The assumption you're making is that Killers won't use this information to tunnel. Disclaimer: While I'm not a fan of tunneling, I don't think it should go away. I just don't think it should be made easier.
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Gemma Arteton as Plague
Jon Bernthal as David
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Helsing anime chapter.
I want OP Alucard ripping everyone to shred because Integra is in the background going 'KILL THEM ALL".
Seras as surv, pre uber vamp, struggling with her humanity to not devour her surv friends and paint the L and T walls with the face of the Killer.
Short run chapter, all for fun and any time seras and Alucard are in a match, they have a bonding moment and all is well.
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Kate, because Kate
Huntress, I love her story.
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What do you mean by abuse? Keep in mind that healing takes minimum 16 seconds without other healing perks. If the survs are taking healing perks instead of the 'second chance' perks you hate, isn't that a good thing?
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@Jane_Is_Mega_Thicc said:
What I do is when I finish a gen I try to find another gen on the opposite side of the map. After that I go to a gen in the middle of the map, like in the outside area. When I do that it can prevent 3 gens.
@PsyQuil77 said:
You guys 3 genned yourselves. Unless it's a trapper or hag, 3gens are always survivors fault.
I realize I wasn't clear enough. My bad.
I'm pretty the Deathslinger was just patrolling those three gens hard (no shade thrown here, I'd do the same knowing how defensible that set up is. It's just a war of attrition at that point. What I'm curious about is how, in SQ, you could realistically break that setup. If that makes sense.
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Remove Killers, remove Survivors.
All that will be left are the hooks battling it out for dominance. The One True Hook.
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Freddy & Trapper.
Not because I don't like Trapper but because I will inevitably see a trap a half second too late and step on it. Every match. Every time. No matter how much I look or expect a trap at a certain loop, one trap will get me and I feel like it's a personal failing. lol
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2131936#Comment_2131936
It isn’t hard to figure out “let me crawl away” by the second cancel.
Secondly, sabotaging a hook BEFORE I’m even being carried, and when Deathslinger had no clue where I was still is simply just a dick, selfish move.
It can be harder than people think.
Just this week, I went to save someone from their second hook, but no matter what position I stood in or how I tilted my mouse, I could not get the damned unhook prompt to show. The surv thought I was trolling them and suicided. Sometimes the game is janky. Sometimes people are just new(er). (Yes, sometimes they're trolls, but what can you do about those?)
I get your frustrations. I've shared them when I've watched all three of my teammates abandon gens to come unhook me, or something similar. But, I always try to remember that they may not have all the same information that I do in a given circumstance. You might have been sure what the Deathslinger would do (and be right about it). Ash might not have been. It's possibly he might have been irritated with you for just crawling away when he thought it was the perfect opportunity to get you back up.
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I can accept my inevitable death. I'm just going to try and eke out as many points as possible in the meanwhile.
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Yep. I've had a lot of match where I see the hatch and just don't need it. I have some matches where I need the hatch, see it, but don't make it. Then there's matches where I think I stand a 50/50 shot of getting the hatch, but nope, it's right next to where the Killer is hooking the other surv or I find the Killer long before I find the hatch.
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On the generator point, I'd also add to scan for 3 gens very close together at the start of the match and make one of those your first priority. A couple of nights ago, I ended up on a Midwich map that had 1 gen in a room and then in the hallway outside 2 more gens very close together. Let's just say we three genned the heck out ourselves without realizing it against a deathslinger and it was pretty much gg. Survs can have an awesome beginning game, but a nasty three gen will almost guarantee a 4K.
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Autodidact - fun to use, but so very difficult to get good use with. I'd just add an increase chance to get a skill check while healing.
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Internally: Crap, I took off small game because I haven't seen many hexes today/am trying to do a challenge and swapped out the perk. We're all gonna die - maybe, probably, highly likely.
Externally: I start creeping around the map trying to find said totem while avoiding the Killer and tapping gens if needed. I can feel the comical sweat bead on my forehead every time the heart beat gets close and I just hope that everyone on the team is also looking for that dastardly totem that's about to spell out total demise.
Devour Hope is pretty fun to play against overall.
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@Northener1907 said:
There is some survivors perks give them second chance. Make them escape from killer or hit. Do you think that is problem or not? Lets discuss about this.
Adrenaline
Borrowed Time
Dead Hard
Decisive Strike
Flip-Flop + Power Struggle Combo
Iron Will + New Lucky Break Combo
Mettle of Man
Soul Guard
Unbreakable
Also your teammates can give you second chance with some perks:
Saboteur + Breakout Combo
For the People
Adrenaline - only useful at the end of the match and only under specific conditions. The speed boost, if you're not being chased, probably isn't going to do a whole lot and if you're already healed, then you've wasted a perk slot. It's mostly a tool for good loopers who are good at keeping aggro and keeping up. You play with 3 perks until end game. Hard counter: Instadown Killers/Addons/Perks.
Borrowed Time - Is not a 'second chance perk' imo as it does not apply to the person with the perk. Yes, the person to whom it is applied can take a hit, and that is a common strat. However, it is the only effective perk survs have against campers. There should be a counter to camping. (Except Bubba who can eat through BT and multiple survs.) And it can be played around except for certain circumstances in ECG. Hard counter: Not being near the hook/Bubba/Not insta slashing
Dead Hard - not a second chance IMO. It's an exhaustion perk. Meaning, it's going to be encountered once per chase in most cases and is very situational on it's use. Dead Hard in a DZ? You gained maybe a second or two. Dead Hard 'normally' - you may find yourself 'exhausted on the ground' more often than not. ALL exhaustion perks are meant to extend or discourage chases. DH falls into that uncomfortable territory for Killers of "I've won this, it's mine." Only to sometimes have that chase extended beyond or well beyond expectations. I've watched several damn good survs for a long time. They can all use DH in amazing ways, and they can all use it to try to eke out just a few more before they go down. Unless you want survs to just be driving dummies for Killers to hit, then survs need some unexpected abilities to make things more interesting. DH is the only exhaustion perk to fit that bill. (Disclaimer: I suck with DH, but I have seen streams of folks who can do good things with it and also end up DH exhausted on the ground.) DH fits a particular niche for survs too. WE have some control over it's activation. No other exhaustion perk grants that to the degree DH does. Hard Counter: Servers/distance =/= safety/exhaustion
Decisive Strike - Nerfed to an anti-tunnel perk. Literally can't do anything much except be in chase. Getting tunneled off the hook sucks big time. Give us some breathing room. Hard Counters: leave me alone for a bit/soft tunneling
Flip-Flop + Power Struggle Combo - Okay two perk slots for the chance of maybe dropping a pallet on a Killer blissfully walking through one and taking a stun. Assuming, of course, you have enough wiggle to make it happen. And y'know you're in a spot to make it count. That's a whole lot of 'ifs' way beyond the survs control to make a reality more than once in a match if even that. Hard counter: Don't walk through pallets/ don't go for hard slugging/ you're not entitled to a hook until the surv is on the hook.
Iron Will + New Lucky Break Combo - Iron Will is not a second chance perk. Not even when paired. If Killers can make survs louder, then yes, survs should have counter. That's also 2 perk slots for something that may or may not happen. New Lucky Break does seem to be OP, but I say seem in that it has yet to be fully tested "in the wild". If it is, the LB need a nerf. However, don't blame the devs for trying something. We want them to try things be it Killer and/ or Surv. Hard counter: probably needs a nerf NLB - leave iron will alone as long as stridor is a thing.
Mettle of Man - as a Killer you should pray survs are using MoM. The effect for the trade off is 'meh'. Hard counter: literally normal game play.
Unbreakable - If the Killer isn't slugging, it's literally a wasted perk slot. EOS. Hard counter: i get up once if you leave me too long, and that's it. I'm down to three perks.
Saboteur + Breakout Combo - do you realize how sub optimally survs have to play to make this work even once? It's a lot and generally not worth it unless in a coordinated group. Hard counter: Star struck, uncoordinated groups, offering for hooks closer together, anything not optimized SWF.
For the People - Is not a second chance perk. It's one surv transferring their health to another with the heavy restriction of being broken when the Killer is chasing someone else and not hooking who they downed. Killers are not guaranteed hooks until the flesh is on the hook. Hard counter: Don't slug so early and often.
Any snark aside, survs are literally only going to have second chance and general use perks as options. WE CANNOT TAKE KILLERS OUT OF THE GAME. But you can take us out of the game not only through perks, Killer choice, and strat, but also through pure game mechanics. Killer's literally don't need 'second chance perks' because there is nothing, game mechanics wise, that survs can do to boot Killers out of match.
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@lob said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2123377#Comment_2123377
watch 13:53 of this video till the end and say swf arent as bad as you think
It's not SWF sided. At least not in the terms of general SWF. I play SWF with me and 1-2 other people and we are literally just people who like to play games together. None of us are particularly good though we do try to win. You won't find us looping you for more than a gen unless we just happen to have your proverbial number that night. However, most of the time it's a 3-4K and we're all fine with that.
What the game likely is sided towards are 3-4 SWF who have played together a lot, have the map & strategy knowledge to be able to coordinate their efforts very well along with perk choices to make them even more efficient. Then you have super teams who deploy like SWAT (I played Killer for the first during the first release of MMR and ran into one of those teams. Thankfully, they were one of the nicer ones who apologized because they didn't realize it was my second game playing Killer) and before you know it 4 gens have popped, you've been blinded twice and the world feels like a terrible place.
You might run into some solo Qs who have a decent amount experience across the board and complimentary play-styles and perk choices that gives them an edge where most solo Q doesn't. Or you have 1-2 srvs who are exceptionally awesome at looping and the Killer over-commits to them. I've had games like as survivor and on the whole, it's probably a 40/60 split on getting teammates who do that. That 60% when they don't? It's Killer sided. Not unwinnable, but deffo Killer sided and you can generally here the death knell for the whole team with the first person who gets sacrificed.
TL'DR a lot of it is going to depend on who you get matched against, what Killer you're playing, and what map your on. Stealth Killers on indoor maps can be freakin' brutal without the right perks and in solo Q. The game is over before it even begins. If you're having a tough time, try a different time slot maybe. I find that morning games for me pair me up with more people (Killer and Surv) of equal skill than evening games.
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Buckle Up - refuse to use
Flip Flop - don't use and rarely see situation to use, but when those situations happen, I wish I had it.
I don't really have a perk that must be in my build. I just have sets of perks for certain builds that I like running.
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Only found one key, but did find more purple items in general than usual.
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@Mineguy said:
I have a problem right now. A streamer played against me and started to insult me and showed my steam profile on stream while still insulting me.
Is this even legal to record me in some way and show my stuff without my consent?
In short, yes. If there is a country/jurisdiction in which recording you in a game at all is illegal, then likely Twitch would inaccessible. As for showing your profile, again, likely yes. Just like it's generally legal to post someone's home address (jurisdiction dependent). It's not considered private information and anyone can access your steam info unless (I think) you've privated it.
That said, just because something is within in the bounds of the law doesn't make it right or moral.
Your recourse would be to review both Twitch and Steam's use policy & terms of agreement (possibly DBD's as well) and see if what they recorded and said violates those terms. If so, then you'd report them through the channels indicated by those platforms with the information needed. Whether or not said companies will or can action is likely dependent on the situation.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2029917#Comment_2029917
Depends again on the maps. Maps like midwich literally have gens in the middle of the hall so theyll obviously w the opposite direction. Haddonfield has a gen in the middle of the street and a gen beside a house where the survivor can again just go other direction. Coldwind map gens in middle of fields. Autohaven basically every gen. Temple of purgation i can think of like 3 since its all straightways. Its honestly pretty common. Map problem as none of these maps give cutoffs which is where the killer catches up. People already knew this problem with midwich and its dubbed "W the map" because thats all it literally is. Have a OoO on the opposite side? Never catching him unless you just run forward for like 2 minutes.
A lot of these maps also have LOS blockers that do not make it easy for survs to know if the Killer is coming for them or not. Midwich is about the only map that has gens with great LOS in all directions you need it. And a lot of those generators are center gens which are pretty frequently patrolled and by sheer virtue of being a center gen means you're going to hit the edge of the map sooner rather than later (which was NOT the case in the test vid. They literally started at the edge of the map from the worst possible angle of approach).
Looking at the test that was performed, it's literally the absolute worst case scenario (positioning, visibility, lack of perks, addons, etc) on what, iirc, is the largest map in the game. Didn't utilize the Killer's power at all to close distance, and assumed that he'd go all the way back to that gen. It also ignores 3 gen strat and more. Yes, in those cases hold W will extend chases and may put a Killer in a terrible spot.
And I'm not saying that it can't happen, but I doubt the prevalence of the circumstances required to make 'just hold w' be that big of an issue.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2028928#Comment_2028928
If you hit a survivor, and they run straight, you literally have to chase them 40 seconds.
Or if they are at 12 meters and sprint burst. The entire point 'W meta' is a problem is because people are imagining massive distances when they think of 40 second straight line chases. The reason that seems silly is because in most scenarios the killer's relatively small speed advantage is amplified by EXTREMELY COMPLEX MATH (Ex: If your running at an angle from the killer, at their most optimal angle they are effectively moving 7 meters per-second).
Most of the killer's distance gains are from cutoffs, mindgames where you stop for a second and suddenly they gain a full 4.6 meters on you rather than just .6, or other survivor mistakes. If the survivor is literally just running away, you can't do this, and suddenly the speed difference doesn't really matter and you have to sink a bonkers amount of time into the chase.
Like lets say two survivors are doing a gen and move to 10 meters in seperate directions before you make LOS contact. It is now literally impossible for you to close out a chase with either survivor without losing that gen as long as the map is one conductive to holding W, which is kinda absurd if you really think about it. And, as a bonus, after the killer closes in you can abort into a loop to try to extend the time more. While even on good maps there are plenty of times just not taking a chase makes sense, on many right now things are so open that the killer just can't take a chase ever and win without mobility, survivors just not being on gens if not in a chase, or someone deciding to try to loop before the killer closes distance. Because this play has zero interaction and can be done flawlessly with no skill required vs a large portion of the cast, it just turns out the killer doesn't have enough time to try to win any chases and not lose the game overall, which is a major problem.
Again, not that its BAD that survivors can run away. The solution here is almost certainly NOT 'Nerf W.' This is a bigger issue with map design, and the inherent rewards for chases and gen defense for M1 killers. This is why L T walls are so much stronger than most other gyms, and why Midwich and Lampkin are such awful maps: They are very linear with extremely large obstacles that essentially combine the benefits of looping AND W meta. It is a very subtle, nerdy problem that A: I wish streamers didn't highlight because its now ALL you see in redranks, and B: Because it obviously SOUNDS really stupid and most people articulate it poorly so something that is actually game design 101 "Lets evaluate white room mathematical non-interactive matchups stuff" sounds like ridiculous 'NERF SURVIVORS SO THEY CAN'T EVEN WALK AWAY FROM ME" stuff.
The white-room super crunchy math stuff always seems silly, but ends up being really easy to cause massive problems in your games, which is why patch notes often do things like talk about fractional changes in seconds for things. Time relationships are ESPECIALLY prone to creating wacked out results, and this is a doubled over time relationship between gens and movement speed.
In a sterile example, this is true, but how often is this done in practice? And even the sterile example ignores the fact the Killer is faster that they can start pushing the surv to the edge of the map fairly quickly and can use obstacles to gain more distance or simply get closer to the surv before they start running in the first place.
How often do survs spot killers in time to move off a gen/hook save/etc soon enough to gain this massive distance?
How often are survs in a spot where gaining that same massive distance doesn't put them at the disadvantage of being near the edge of the map/near fairly quickly?
How often are they against Killers for whom this might even be a problem?
Sure if a Killer approaches from a bad angle, already at the edge of a map, then the survivor's choice is clear. But even if they commit to just running forward and the Killer in question can't 'easily' catch up, you've chased them FAR FAR from the gen, and maybe even spooked a couple of other survs along the way.
Seriously, it sounds to me like people are taking the absolute worst case scenerio and trying to apply it to the game as whole. There are a lot of variables that a strict 'test' or number crunching doesn't remotely begin to take into account.
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@Raja said:
Why do some survivors (usually swf) like to proclaim victory if they get the pity hatch? If hatch spawns and there are still gens that's a loss whether you get hatch or not you still got outplayed and the game gave a pity mechanic.
I get so many people who get the hatch and proceed to boast of winning or mocking me, you only escape because I'm too lazy to play tag for 4k.
People have differing opinions.
And some people are just unpleasant.
Hard to say which you ran into, but like others have said, don't let it matter.
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It's a pretty unreliable perk overall.
1.) You become a tunnel magnet. If you're really good at running the killer, then this may not be a problem. However, get the wrong map/RNG set up (too many dead zones) and it's probably not going to work out well for you.
2.) While it can synergize somewhat well with other perks, the second effect of 50% lowering pained noises is 'meh'. 50% probably isn't going to help all that much unless the killer has a pretty bad sound setup or is inexperienced and almost makes Iron Will mandatory. Sure, you're completely silent against Stridor, but that's two perk slots with a huge disadvantage to seriously hard counter 1 Killer perk that may or may not be in the game. If you get in a game with Stridor Spirit, then yes, it's amazing. But the rest of the time - eh for me.
3.) If the Killer doesn't slug you long enough, then you will never get the benefit of No Mither's main bonus. Tenacity can help and maybe flip flop to avoid the hook if they do leave you for at least a bit. Resilience can help you slam out gens and that that other one that adds progress on great skill checks, but running those 2 with NM leaves you one other perk slot to help with an otherwise detrimental 'perk'.
4.) If you're not a good runner and/or don't have a solid game plan, the rest of your team will not be happy with you at the end of the game.
I've watched a lot of streamers run No Mither combos and the one thing that seems to be VERY common is that a lot of it is just flat out luck based on how well you'll do with it, aside from possibly, chases. But again, you get a bad map and/or the killer decides to go for the easy tunnel out, the game is pretty much over.
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@madminer95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986701#Comment_1986701
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1993244#Comment_1993244
It's generally accepted that SWF communication imbalances the game. As quality of life adjustments are made to improve solo Survivor communication, logical corresponding counterbalances need to be made for killers to prevent killers experience being made miserable, further increasing Survivor queue times as less killers play.
The thing is that soloq info will likely have to be raised incrementally and then killer info adjusted accordingly. Killers already get, by default, more map info than survivors. Just to be clear, I am not making a statement on whether that is right or wrong, just the objective fact that the difference exists. So, giving Killers even more information that is just being opened up to soloq is very much an advantage to Killers.
Right now there is a marked difference between the information solo q has and what SWF can have. A difference that BHVR has noted and has said they'd like to address. Likely, that will mean changes for Killer information too in order to compensate, but changes like that are legit going to require time and experimentation because at the end of the day, it's the balance that matters.
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Eh, the hot pink pants and banana yellow jacket are a no for me from a purely aesthetic POV. It's just not color scheme that screams Evil to me, but rather edgelord looking for attention. His mori is for the most part okay, but something that I personally don't see as horror. it's more flashy, action movie aesthetic. Outside of that, he seems to have an interesting mechanic that may need some refinement. Could be very fun to play against, which is all I care about.
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I suspect a part of the plan was also to start helping soloq in the form of giving more information. As to why not give the Killers the same information, that, I would think is a balance question. Information, how to get it, etc is a big part of this game. Giving one 'side' too much information use tilts the game balance in their favor and there's already a lot of information that Killers get without perks that survivors don't.
So, it's probably a small step in trying to improve soloq without giving away too much either to survivors or buffing the information Killers already have. If the impact is small but positive over a course of time, then it would be logical to consider whether or not to add it to Killers.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985873#Comment_1985873
Which is it, was the killer providing map pressure or did you make it all the way to the end game without being hooked? Because trying to claim both just doesn't jive.
Not quite true. Killers can chase survs off gens, hit them once, but not end up hooking them because they are more interested in pressuring other gens as opposed to risking a prolonged chase. It might be inexperience on the Killers part, or just a strategy, or something else. But, I have had it happen to me. Rare, but it's happened.
I've also had matches where I'm the surv getting people off hooks and healing them just by pure chance. Since I really try to go for safe unhooks, in those matches, I usually end up unhooking, healing, then running to the next hooked person. Hell, I've had games like that where I'm standing out in the open, begging the Killer to chase me instead of my other teammates, but they won't. Then the gens are up, NOED comes out and I'm like honey to Killer bees. Downed, hooked, and smartly the rest of my teammates that were remaining got out of dodge.
Just to note, these experiences are not the norm for me, but they've happened enough for me to remember them. Personally, I'm the sort of surv who finds it mildly frustrating but as long as my remaining team gets out, I'll take that as a victory.
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@bleyend21 said:
Not to be disrespectful but i’ve seen plenty post saying that dh should be reworked, since it’s very unfair for the killers who can easily lose a loop because of it -allegedly.
I mean, of course it is a very op perk, which is used by many survivors and that can become a real issue on the hands of those who know how to use it. Still, did you ever stop and thought about the fairness of the Tombstone?
Yeah, sure he has to stalk much than the usual to get there in tier 3, but still it is not even fair and gets frustrating when you have the game almost done and some creep just walking through you and insta kill you.
There has to be a balance between those two sides. Complaining about the dh or even ds it’s just unfair to us who’ve been dealing with this offerings and add-ons.
Just a thought, be safe y’all!
No, I don't think Dead Hard is OP, but I do see how particularly clever use of it frustrates Killers because often Dead Hard is used in the middle of chase. Usually, that's the only time it can be used, which ramps up the feeling of "I'm going to get this hook" only to be denied it. However, Dead Hard's actual 'use' (dodging) is nearly useless, and I don't see it as being anymore 'OP' than the SB user who 99's SB and uses it a moment when the Killer is sure of a hit and they whiff into the air, or the Lithe user who plays a loop well, the window is the last option, but instead of securing a hit, the Killer watches them prance off gazelle like.
Dead zone? Dead hard is useless
A loop that's way more 60/40? Sure you clear that window/pallet, but you're hosed.
Attempt to dodge a hit? Yeah, just don't do that with dead hard.
From what I've seen, highly skilled survs with looping can use DH incredibly well in specific situations that maybe, just maybe, they worked the Killer into without the Killer realizing what's happening until it's too late. Until the devs give DH a clear purpose that works, nerfing it would make the perk trash.
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As a Survivor: "I can't believe you guys went down that fast, you bunch of [insert many a bad thing here]" said the Rank 1 Oni to 1 green and 3 18-20 survs.
As Killer: "hahaha, ez gg baby Killer" well, yes, I was a lvl 20 Trapper with exactly 1 perk. What was your first clue?
Runner up: Killer accusing us of using a Haddonfield offering when they were the one who brought it.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1985873#Comment_1985873
Which is it, was the killer providing map pressure or did you make it all the way to the end game without being hooked? Because trying to claim both just doesn't jive.
Not quite true. Killers can chase survs off gens, hit them once, but not end up hooking them because they are more interested in pressuring other gens as opposed to risking a prolonged chase. It might be inexperience on the Killers part, or just a strategy, or something else. But, I have had it happen to me. Rare, but it's happened.
I've also had matches where I'm the surv getting people off hooks and healing them just by pure chance. Since I really try to go for safe unhooks, in those matches, I usually end up unhooking, healing, then running to the next hooked person. Hell, I've had games like that where I'm standing out in the open, begging the Killer to chase me instead of my other teammates, but they won't. Then the gens are up, NOED comes out and I'm like honey to Killer bees. Downed, hooked, and smartly the rest of my teammates that were remaining got out of dodge.
Just to note, these experiences are not the norm for me, but they've happened enough for me to remember them. Personally, I'm the sort of surv who finds it mildly frustrating but as long as my remaining team gets out, I'll take that as a victory.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I have no problem with the Bubbas that face camp and tunnel toxic survivors.
The problem is they keep doing it to me and I'm not that at all, and against solo queue folks =(
I can't even rush gens in solo queue.
The first time I got camped by a Bubba, it felt almost like a rite of passage. "You just haven't played DBD until you've gotten a good ole Bubba camp".
I have met many a cool Bubba's tho and one soul who was just trying to get out of the match with a 1K. We could not get poor Quentin off the hook before the ECG ended, but we all gave Bubba our items. (I was the lowest ranked survivor in the match, probably high yellow, the others were purple and red, the Bubba was a yellow.)
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Candyman could be an interesting Killer. It would depend heavily on his power and how it was managed though. He's a shadow that emerges when you think you might be safe and isolates you from any support (if you're the protag anyway) and that would be a difficult thing to do in the game.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1986015#Comment_1986015
I'm not saying it's "right" to punish someone else. What I was saying is I understand why killers be like that at times.
Hell, even in real life people be like that all the time. Person A annoys person B and person C gets to deal with angry-person B. That's just how people are.
Oh, I don't disagree with you. I can understand why a person may do something. I might even empathize with the circumstances that brought them to that point. However, once you take your rage out on people who had nothing to do with it, you've (disclaimer: general 'you' here, not you specifically) become the bully you despise, and there really is no justification for it. Because that's exactly what a lot of bullies are - people who feel out of control and angry at circumstances in their life that they can't control and take it out on people who they think can't fight back.
On the flip side of that, do you think it's acceptable for survivors to have a bad game with a Killer that makes it miserable, taunts them after, and then they go into the next game intending to completely ruin that Killer's experience? I think that's equally crappy and just as reprehensible.
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@TheWarNung said:
The thing is that most survivors only do spins when they're about to take a hit anyways. At that point, what's the harm in trying a 360?
If they succeed in spinning you you'll like like an idiot but probably down them a second later anyways. If you just watch them twirl and then hit them they'll look like an idiot. If you're getting spun multiple times then... yeah... don't... do that.
You may not think 360s look realistic but I don't think it looks realistic that survivors can heal punctured lungs without even any bandages by just patting each other on the back until they're healthy. We make allowances for entertainment value.
I laughed. I laughed a lot. If only life threatening injuries, like a chainsaw to the back, could be healed in full by a prolonged 'there there'.
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@NOEDaddy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1969010#Comment_1969010
I’m glad you mentioned that.
First of all this is not an excuse for this thing EVER. Secondly, I did not wait more than 30 seconds to get into a game. And I don’t really think that there’s not enough killers anyways because these times that the survivors are screwed over with are golden for the killers no matter how much a killer main would complain they’ve got the upper hand in terms of normal gameplay “ I started playing killer from time to time because of it “ . So yeah..
If it helps, my queue time in solo q surv are 10 seconds to 45 seconds tops. I'm often paired with a rainbow that can include a Killer way below my rank or way above my rank. I don't consider 45 seconds a long time to wait.
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Hard to say because I haven't seen too many of them. Good twins players are beasts to go against tho. Wouldn't mind seeing more of them if people want to play them.
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@dezzmont said:
Bloodlust does two critical things to the game, one agreed as objectively good, and the other good in my opinion:
1st: Infinites. Bloodlust fixes them.
2nd: It creates a theoretical maximum chase duration.
What bloodlust does NOT do: Meaningfully alter 'open' chases (AKA survivor just holds W) or the distance gained or lost going from one obstacle to another except over VERY large distances.
Now 2 is controversial, but I think it is good: A survivor should NOT be allowed to survive indefinitely if the killer wants to devote a minute to just eliminating them, because that helps games that are already over to end. If its down to 2 survivors, and there are a few gens left to do, without bloodlust a really good survivor could run a middling killer infinitely, but they can't win the game. It creates a stalemate. This is a problem, because we want this game to end, and even though this killer was meh they clearly did enough to 'win' and the really good looper didn't, so letting the looper stall the game indefinitely because the killer is struggling to close it out is bad game design. This wouldn't be an issue if DBD matches had natural time limits, but like most games that could last idefinitely DBD needs a mechanic that pushes it to close out.
A good example of a similar mechanic is how RTS games have resources dwindle from the map, as well as very 'dense' units that will trivially break through turtle strategies. While theoretically you can just trade trash units forever in say... Age of Empires once the map is barren your just gunna eventually shove down defenses that can't be rebuilt because there is no more stone or gold and the game naturally forces a conclusion. Likewise, in Starcraft 'dense' units that aren't resource efficient but are very supply efficient do something similar: You probably won't win a game rushing carriers without being a good defensive player but if your opponent is just turtling and not messing with you at all you can FORCE the win just by rushing them or battlecruisers or whatever, even if your micro wasn't that great, simply because you noticed this stall or otherwise won positionally. It also bears resemblence to 'closer' mechanics, like Spies in Age of Empires, which does almost nothing in regular gameplay but prevents you from having cheeky hidden workers constantly building new bases so the game drags on forever by letting a player in the lead permanently see all your villagers: Normally they are just in your bases which you know, just like how normally a survivor just wants to get a chase to last 2 minutes anyway as a 'best outcome' so like bloodlust it doesn't do anything, but if you get really ahead and kill the enemy base it lets you just force the game to end rather than letting someone drag it out.
Bloodlust is similar: it forces games to conclude when you risk a stalemate: the killer WILL catch you if you just try to loop them forever and not progress the game as survivor by breaking off the chase. At the really high end dropping chases is hard, but at the really high end the killer doesn't have the luxury of bloodlusting people down anyway even 2v1 so like... whatever. The costs and benefits of BL are mostly at the 'mid tier' of the game. And while bloodlust CAN be used to force a kill even outside of an endgame state, it will almost always come at the cost of the killer losing vs a compitent team: If your dumping a full 2 minutes 30 seconds into a chase by bloodlusting it out twice and the survivor just W'ing away you are gunna lose unless your pressure game is really good: The equivalent of good defensive play in an RTS allowing you to get luxury units early: if you as a killer can finagle survivors off gens for a full minute and a half (because gen timings are tight enough that to get 2 bloodlust 2/3 hits is enough time for 3 survivors to do all the gens AND open a gate if you crunch those numbers AND assume the down is instant once you hit 3) they kinda... deserve the ability to be terrifying to the survivor near them?
Basically bloodlust serves to both close out games and reward good killer play more than bad like many people think, because knowing WHEN to bloodlust adds to the tactical landscape of DBD and knowing when you ARE being bloodlusted and need to break chase for even a second is a survivor skill.
TL;DR: Its a win more mechanic. Good games have mechanics and gamestates that help the winning player close out the game when it really is just going to devolve to a grindy drag to help games not drag out.
So bloodlust shouldn't go away even if they DO fix the maps. Its doing a LOT more to the design than infinites, which is why the survivor Q got so heavily rocked by the bloodlust experiment and only recovered once they broke survivor hit registration so bad the game is borderline unplayable: It shows a critical lack of an understanding of how DBD actually flows as a game to just say 'Well it lets you get kills even if you can't counter the loop' because like... if the survivors don't do gens they should eventually go down as an inevitable fact, regardless of how bad the killer is. It encourages more interactive play and games ending swiftly as a 'win more' mechanic, which are important.
Bloodlust should only go away if they have a systematic way to end infinites (And they don't. Honestly it wouldn't be hard to create a formula that 'proves' something is potentially an infinite, so its silly they 'tested' if there still were any without BL. So having an anti-infinite mechanic rather than just trusting the map design is good practice. Most games have anti-infinite mechanics after all because it allows more complex scenarios as you would rather have more freedom and an 'emergency out' than to design everything painstakingly around infinite avoidance), AND they create a more robust 'Get on with it' mechanic. Like making matches have a capped time limit and after the end the killer just wins, because they are the 'defensive' side. If both were true it MIGHT be a good idea for bloodlust to go away. As is we aren't even close.
A survivor should NOT be allowed to survive indefinitely if the killer wants to devote a minute to just eliminating them, because that helps games that are already over to end. If its down to 2 survivors, and there are a few gens left to do, without bloodlust a really good survivor could run a middling killer infinitely, but they can't win the game.
Why not? If there are 2 survivors left, then the looping skills of 1 survivor may became all the more important. Why should a 'middling' Killer suddenly get such a high advantage over someone who is better than they are? The survivor could make a window for the other surv to finish the remaining gens and give both of them a chance to escape. Secondly, if the Killer decides to pour that much time into one surv - no matter how many other survs are left, why shouldn't it possible that the decision costs them dearly?
This is a problem, because we want this game to end, and even though this killer was meh they clearly did enough to 'win' and the really good looper didn't, so letting the looper stall the game indefinitely because the killer is struggling to close it out is bad game design.
I would say giving someone who's been outplayed an easy 1-2K (possibly additional) on some arbitrary "people might want matches that fit into this specific circumstance to end" would be worse game design. Also, the looper isn't stalling the game, they're playing the game. Stalling is hiding in corners, avoiding the killer by hiding in out of the way places - all while refusing to do gens in some weird stand off to see if the Killer finds you, the other surv, or (possibly) the hatch first, forcing end game.
Bloodlust is similar: it forces games to conclude when you risk a stalemate: the killer WILL catch you if you just try to loop them forever and not progress the game as survivor by breaking off the chase.
This doesn't pass muster because it is rarely up to survivors to 'break chase'. They have neither the speed nor the base kit to make that possible in most circumstances. Even without tracking perks, there are scratch marks, blood trails, and injured survivor noises to help Killers keep the chase going. Some perk combos might count, but usually the person who gets to decide to break the chase is the Killer. So, again, if a Killer over-commits to a chase, why should the surv be punished?
Basically bloodlust serves to both close out games and reward good killer play more than bad like many people think, because knowing WHEN to bloodlust adds to the tactical landscape of DBD and knowing when you ARE being bloodlusted and need to break chase for even a second is a survivor skill.
Well, no, it doesn't. Earlier in your post, you say that bloodlust allows Killers facing better survs to end the chase and that it's a huge point to keep bloodlust. If Killers over commit, that it is NOT rewarding good game play. If Killers are worse at looping/etc then the surv they're facing, bloodlust is not rewarding good game play. This isn't a hair, I think, that can be split both ways. You can't call Bloodlust fine because it helps less skilled Killers end the game faster AND a tactical choice. The two concepts conflict heavily.
Think about in reverse. The more a survivor runs a Killer, the faster they get. Is that fair? No.
Just to note, none of this is to say that there aren't other problems with DBD that need addressing, that some of these issues may be seriously hindering to Killers on the whole, or that some loops might be way too survivor sided. I just don't buy that 'bloodlust is always needed' or that 'bloodlust rewards good game play'.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I'll be honest, I could give a damn about true balance if they just made the game ######### fun.
Give solo survivors a different objective beyond survival; something that awards just as many points or something.
Give new perks to the game that do nothing but increase blood point earnings or something but don't buff you. Like "Gain a stackable 25% BONUS in bloodpoints in all categories however your power cool down/Charge time is doubled" or something. I would love that.
It removes the stress about "Winning" and rewards you more for TRYING TO JUST PLAY.
That's what this game needs more than anything right now, a will and motivation to just....play.
There is too much stress based around trying to win either by killing everyone or escaping; and nothing properly awarding you or giving you a sense of accomplishment for literally anything else. Change that; and I promise the atmosphere of the game would change immediately for the better.
For me, it isn't stress. It's lackluster end of game. I really don't care if I escape, though it is nice to do so. It does suck though to lead the Killer on a long, end chase that allows whatever other remaining survivors there are to get out, and though you've been active in the game the whole time, the reward is a pittance.
I suppose the intention is to feed into the decision to play altruistically or not and I can respect that intention, but as you say, it would be more fun and probably more engaging to have efforts like that have a bonus reward.
I imagine that Killers can have similar frustrations.
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@poomanchu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/229036/dead-hard-from-a-skilled-killers-pov
Spoken like a true survivor.... Killers don’t know they are hitting a survivor from far away, nor can they plan for it. To a killer, a survivor looks like they are right in front of him. So quit posing as a survivor in killers clothing. If you wanna argue about DH just do it without the posing.
This is just not true. You can tell very well Killers are counting on latency hits because they swing often and sometimes too early. Window? Gonna swing and hope. Pallet? Gonna swing and hope. Is this true of all Killers? No, of course not, but that idea that Killers aren't aware and don't try to take advantage at all is just not true.
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Pretty much any rule that isn't "don't be a jerk*"
*Disclaimer: subjective, but I think the general idea stands.
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@gendoss said:
Do you guys think that it would work for dbd? I have friends who say that they should add that to combat the SWF discrepancy but I think that's a really bad idea.
I'm more about the idea for adding more gestures or emotes instead of the basic 1 and 2.
For solo q, I think there needs to be different ways to communicate long distance instead of voice chat. For example, when a surv is hooked ( maybe for x period of time) all survs see each other so they know who is going for the unhook, who's the closest, and can then decide to stay on a gen or not. I'm pretty much of the opinion that Kindred should be base kit for solo Q at this point.
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@EvanSnowWolf said:
Huntress takes this in a stomp.
She's literally called "the Huntress". She could harry and stalk that old man for HOURS. His ranged weapon is inferior, and his melee weapon is inferior. There is no version of this where Anna doesn't split Caleb's skull open.
True, a good Huntress can hit you from across the map (had this happen once and I was super surprised). Deathslinger's range, game wise is much more limited and has a massive telegraph after he fires. Huntress does get a map wide ping though. (Never could figure out why.)
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@GodLikeTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1953985#Comment_1953985
Lol, that michael jordan play got me laughing.
Although I will say, I did pull one over on a camping Bubba with tenacity and unbreakable. Literally a one in a million shot, but after downing someone else and assuming I had DS, he lost track of me (thanks Tenacity) and I popped back up. He tried to chase me but shack was my friend that day and the other teammates got the other person off the hook with enough space for all of them to avoid the chainsaw of multiple doom. (Don't get greedy, Bubba.) We then played cat and mouse for a 2K (sadly, I was one of the 2K but ah well). Not the best game, but definitely had its entertaining moments.
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@GodLikeTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1953985#Comment_1953985
Lol, that michael jordan play got me laughing.
Thank you, thank, I'm here all week.