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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2317315#Comment_2317315
I'm so confused...... Holding m1 is boring and the chases are universally agreed upon to be the FUN part of the match...So shouldn't people be welcomed being chased all match...? To the point ALL gens are done..? Even if you're sacrificed. Is it not a "win" if 3 gets out...So what exactly is it you want
IDK why you're confused. Except that you seem to be importing the results of conversation you've had/read with other people instead of what I wrote.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2316005#Comment_2316005
What I'm pointing out is that SWF's amazing 5th Perk (Comms) has created the situation we all play in today. Killers adapt to the reality of the game. They play meaner, faster, and are far less forgiving because they have to do so. They don't know if you are a SWF or not. But if they don't treat you like one, their game can be effectively decided in the first two minutes. Let's be honest, tell the truth and shame the devil. There is NOTHING that the DEV can ever do to bring Solo up to be equal to SWF potential OTHER than having Solo on Comms. No amount of animations and in-game communication compares to the power of speech and four people sharing four Perks. The problem isn't Tunneling or Camping. It isn't that Solo Queue isn't strong enough (they were fine and competitive once). It is SWF. That is an ever growing problem.
So while I agree that more communication options for Solo would be great (I also play Solo), I'm pragmatic enough to understand it won't affect the problem you are concerned with in any meaningful way. SWF has to be mitigated by unlocking a 5th Perk whenever Killers face them, as well as buffing Solo a bit in the communication department. 3-Person SWFs need to go away. Either two or four. The Red Shirt situation needs to end. It destroys the Solo Queue's faith in one another when the Red Shirt is used as an asset. There are lots of things that can be done, but bringing Solo UP is just treating a symptom. And it won't work.
Not sure I buy that logic. It's not hard to tell when you're playing against good SWF, mediocre SWF (which most of them are), really good solos (having one really good solo is often far more beneficial then some mediocre range SWF), and solos that range from not that game knowledge to fairly decent in knowledge. The idea that Killers are just running against these solid SWF teams to such a degree that the Killers have to play 'mean' is.... well, I'm not sure it passes the sniff test. Plenty of Killers play just as 'mean' if not worse when they realize they get to wreck 4 solos.
Tunneling someone out of the game pretty much guarantees a 3-4K unless there's only 1 gen left, the last two are close to popping, or someone has a key. That's why it's such an effective and used strategy, compared to camping which can take considerably longer. Back to the point above, if a Killer decides to tunnel someone out of the game and there's not 2-3 gens popping by the time that first unhook happens, they aren't SWF, or not a solid SWF at the very least.
Just to be clear, I'm saying tunneling is right or wrong, just don't try to justify it by saying it's 'someone' else's fault. It's a choice the Killer makes in strategy. No one is making them do it.
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@Bluebird said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2315205#Comment_2315205
This right here. It stops the other Survivors from doing generators, and even better, wastes more of their time because you hit them occasionally, sometimes even getting downs. Tunneling, similar to Camping, only works if the Survivors let it work. Do gens if someone's getting tunneled.
"Only works" how exactly? If a Killer wants to tunnel someone out of a match, the chances are it's going to happen unless the surv manages to lose them. One of the best chances they have is team intervention which only works if the Killer decides to switch targets. For the surv getting tunneled, there is no 'letting the Killer get away with it'. At best they're much better at looping than the Killer and manage to get out because the rest of their team are slamming out gens. Even then, the Killer is still hot on their butt, they're probably injured, and likely to get hooked. At that point it will probably campin' time.
Sure, your teammates can decide to just do gens while you get forced out of the game, but that doesn't exactly make it a fun time.
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Why did you swing at 0:31? The survs injured noises were getting softer - meaning they were running from you, not sticking on the loop.
Also that last hatchet throw before you DCed would have missed no matter what.
The one you threw at Claudette at the tree seemed like either a very desperate, hail Mary throw, or you forgot to account for the fact that the hatchet has travel time.
Either way, a bad match where you make some bad decisions doesn't mean the game is dying.
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@Nathan13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2309378#Comment_2309378
Yeah idk why gates spawn so close like that it's way too easy for ranged killers.
TBF, it's incredibly easy for all Killers. LOS is completely open and all Killers will be able to clear that distances once the survivor makes themselves known. The only chance is to get into a chase at that point and hope you can pull the Killer far enough, lose them, and beeline right back for the gates and get them open. However, even that strategy is pretty doomed to fail. The Killer is still fast and knows exactly where the surv is going.
Not saying it can't be done. I've watched a couple of people manage it, but honestly it seemed like their success was mostly because the Killer wasn't trying all that hard by that point. lol.
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It gets a little annoying. There's one other person I play with. Neither of us are that great. We don't escape the majority of the time. But neither one of us really care that much. We play because it's a fun game to play with a friend. Well - usually fun. If we run into enough hard campers, or get paired in several back to back games with Killers that are just WAY past our skill level, we dip out for the day.
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They really do need to do something about the grind. I had nearly 1.3 BP when the new DLC dropped. (I suspect I'm not alone) but that isn't nearly enough to unlock and advance the new Killers and new Survs. Tiers for perks need to go away and the useless perks need a pass to make them not horrible to have. Offerings either just need to be deleted from the game except for maybe BP offerings (with appropriate windows for people to spend what they spent) and the lvling process streamlined. I'm tired of playing hide n seek with the Entity.
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@arcticgirl36 said:
There are but two choices in life:
- Learn to master playing the piano. Or...
- Learn to master the Nurse in Dead by Daylight.
There is no room for anything else. Make your choice. (Although I suppose some people could have even earned a phD in the time they've spent playing dbd.) Which is better, I cannot say.
I hope this is sarcasm.
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Not a Blight player, but I've seen him do pretty well on the swamp maps. Maybe due to the sight lines?
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Because SC does not hard counter. It makes it harder in some circumstances, but by no means impossible.
1.) There is no directional clue. Which, as other people have stated, make it almost as likely that the Surv will run into you as away from you.
2.) SC is highly unlikely to drive a surv off a gen before they know what Killer they're dealing with. Meaning, if GF or Myers stay out of sight and don't stare straight at the gen the whole time, they're going to get in very close and have opportunity to get in some stalk and/or hits.
3.) If survs are paying attention and looking around, that's a much better defense against stealth Killers than SC. If you can see survs, they can see you. Although GF leaning can be harder to spot. If they're waiting until SC flashes reliably to look around, you're going to make good progress unless they get really lucky and first look in the direction you're approaching from.
4.) As Myers, you aren't going to Stalk from a huge distance all the time anyway because of the number of LOS blockers and that gens are often tucked inside buildings or tile walls. On gens that are out in the open, SC is not going to matter much because it's out in the open and they probably have no idea which direction you're coming from at first. Long hallways in Hawkins and Midwich? SC will not matter. Hills where you can see 2-3 angles are multiple gens? SC will not matter much. Low wall loops? SC definitely won't matter.
Making SC not work on undetectable will likely make it a trash bin perk. It's one use is as a somewhat useful early warning system. That's it. The speed bonus isn't that great and the fact that it gives no aura or direction anyway would still be there. And yes, making it not work with undetecable would absolutely be a nerf unless something of equivalent value were given to compensate.
It's just not as powerful as some perceive it to be.
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I'd have to ask what your definitions of gen rush and tunneling are.
Both of these things get used very loosely to mean anything from a Killer returning to the hook because another surv didn't wait a few seconds for them to get further away to Killer ignores all other survs in order to railroad one surv out of the game as fast as possible. The same breadth holds true for genrush. It's everything from '2 gens went before the Killer found their first chase, to highly efficient 4 man squads running optimal perks and bringing optimal toolboxes.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/259697/this-is-a-problem
It’s because survivors never have to learn any new skills.
This is because of two, maybe three, reasons:
Survivors don't have powers and thus limited gameplay options. The only items that require any skill/learning are the flashlight and maybe the new flashbang. (Dunno, haven't used it yet.)
The highest skill ceiling for survs is looping which does not always play into the overall objective. (No amount of learning to loop good is going to change gen repair speeds.) Yes, good loopers can buy time for their teams. Though this advantage can be very map and RNG dependent.
Introducing some high skill element either by items or perks that affect a chase - crap I had a full thought here, but it fled.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2294245#Comment_2294245
Oh I agree. AutoHaven and MacMillan are never on the list of maps when I mention all the terrible ones
MacMillain has sheltered woods, suffocation pit, and coal tower. The only terrible one is groaning store house.
AutoHaven has Gas Heaven and the one shaped like an I..While blood lodge ?(I think that's it) And Auto Wreckers can be terrible depending on RNG
The coldwind maps are god aweful. Corn blindness is worse then ever. It's so bright you can barely see auras or scratch marks. Fractured Cowshed exists. And even more. Jungle gyms that were unsafe after the pallet was gone in the old maps. These new ones usually come with both a pallet and god window. With such long walls there's no playing the window or mind gaming. There's loops around haybails, tractors, etc with god pallets that are just disgusting
Midwhich is pretty terrible if you don't have a killer that can navigate the floor easily. More to the point. It's very poor map design if you need to 3 gen them to try and "win"
Still. That's like maybe 4-5 maps that are fair or even slightly killer sided . Compared to like 15 + that are just god aweful for killers
For the record I want maps to be balanced for both sides. Not an even split between killer or survivor sided
I can't remember the "I" one either, but it's pretty much a gg for survs. The center gen creates really easy three gens with either side. It's way too much of a bottle neck. Gas Haven, ime, tends to spawn with a lot of deadzones, included wall tiles with zero pallets or windows. Wreckers can have that problem too. It seems like all the Autohavens can spawn some really vicious 3 gens.
Agreed on Coldwind. While I genuinely do appreciate the concept of the maps and think (aside from the brightness) they do look good. The corn is pain in general and could probably stand a light harvest over all.
While Midwich can be terrible for Killers, I do think overall it's more punishing for survs. I think there's like 2 really strong pallets that always (or almost always) spawn, the rest can be a huge mixed bag - assuming you get them at all. The long hallways serve survs up for Huntress, DS, Blight, Nurse (you know what forget about the mention of Nurse, a good Nurse is probably going to eat your lunch no matter what the map is), Spirit, & Billy. Maybe to a lesser degree Bubba too. They also tend to let Ghostface and Myers power up pretty easily. Those hallways and even some of the rooms just have 0 LOS blockers.
I can't say whether or not Midwich overall has good 3 gens, but it does have one of the wickedest 3 gens I've ever seen on any map. It was on the bottom floor and if you were facing the door of one of the long rooms there was a gen directly on the opposite wall in front of you. Then to the right and down the hall were 2 other gens nearly sitting on top of each other.
Not to mention that if the survs don't have a lot of experience on the map, just finding the gens, especially after a few have been popped, can become the side quest no one wanted.
A shame too, because aesthetically I really do like Midwich. It's one the creepiest maps in the game.
That said, the only maps I think are highly survivor sided are The Game, Haddonfield and Badham. However Badham, seems to have 2 really strong loops and I do mean REALLY strong, and then the rest of the map is a mixed bag. If Killers refuse to chase survs there, then it seems to work out better. (Just to be clear, I'm talking about in solo Q, not decent SWF who can call that out to their teammates.) Red Forest maps do seem to lean towards Killer too. Oh Dead Dawg, that was the other I forgot to mention.
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@CountVampyr said:
I’m not talking about getting rid of hatch escapes, I don’t want that particular aspect nerfed. But the aura reading abilities are a bit redundant with various perks. How about using them for what keys are basically designed for and have them open boarded up doors? Thoughts?
I consider keys to be the surv version of wall hack add ons that Killers have, but much more limited in use. Surv aura reading for Killer is pretty limited and, in the case of OoO with a high draw back. Given the expenditure of BP for aura reading that keys require, I think it's fine and not redundant at all.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2294234#Comment_2294234
Have you seen the cold wind remakes...? Badham maps ? The Game ? Hadonfield ? Half the Macmillan maps ?
A LOT of the maps are balanced around survivors. And are a nightmare for most killers
Eh, not Macmillan and coldwind can greatly depend on RNG. However that doesn't address the Red Forest maps, Lery's, Hawkins, Midwich. Most of Autohaven. I feel like there is one I'm forgetting. There are some Midwich 3 gen set ups that no matter the Killer, you're going to lose if the Killer IDs the 3 gen. Autohaven also has some really nasty 3 gens. So can Macmillan. All of them to the point where the Killer can let all other gens fly as long they protect the 3 gen.
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@Gaffy said:
Speed? Yes. Survivors spawning on the other side of the map grouped together literally next to their objective? No.
This is generally something you want. 3 Survivors on 1 gen is WAY less efficient than 4 survs on 4 different gens from the start. You're almost guaranteed to lose three before the first chase ends with possibly a 4th in partial progress. One of the only ways survs can be more brutal on gens is if 2 have Prove Thyself and pair up with the 2 that don't. And/Or BNPs are in game.
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@saltmineinaction said:
I started to pick up killer mainly to do the tome challenges and to farm for BP when I'm done playing as survivor. But I have no idea how to let survivors know I wanna farm with them.
I know with ghostface to just teabag a lot and with hag & demo to use their traps/portals as a sign, but what for the other killers?
Any tips are welcome for this! And same goes for as survivor to let the killer know you wanna farm or befriend them.
1.) Play pig, follow a surv while crouched and roar. Hopefully, they will come boop the snoot.
2.) Find surv, hit gen they were (hopefully) working on repeatedly.
3.) Nodding and spinning.
But also don't be surprised if they don't get it/don't want to farm and play normally.
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@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2291072#Comment_2291072
We’re looking at it from two different point of views. You’re approaching with legality and I’m approaching with morale.
You’re backing your argument up with whether or not its legal for someone to farm and I’m speaking on whether or not its right to kick a Victor who did nothing but play friendly the entire match.
I mean, if someone approached with a gift and you accepted, would you spit in their face after accepting? (Not to make this into a serious matter, just trying to explain the way I saw it in my eyes)
Morale doesn't matter. Ya'll literally ganged up on someone for using a game mechanic.
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@Northener1907 said:
Change my mind. My proves from my experiences:
- I saw so many killers let us go when team were played so bad. I am not saying all killer players doing this but i saw so much killer did let us go.
- So many times killers giving last guy hatch.
- When i get 1 or 2 dc, killers did let us fix gens and leave.
- Most killer players writing "gg wp" even they are lose with 4 escapes.
But survivors?
- I never saw they give me free hook when i played so bad.
- I never saw they did make game more slower when i got 1 or 2 hooks with losing 3 or 4 gens.
- So many of them are writing "gg wp" only when they wins. But some of them are nice and writing gg even they die.
- Most killers finishing games fast when they win. But survivors? When they win, they are t-bagging on gates for waste killer's more time.
Change my mind if you can.
Killer:
1.) I've also seen a lot of high ranked Killers get paired up with me (green, sometimes purple) and 3 other yellow survivors, absolutely demolish us then laugh and taunt in post game chat. Killer taunting in general, ime, happens only a bit less often than surv taunting. This is likely due to every match containing 4 survs to 1 Killer.
That said, the vast majority of post game chats are either ggs or nothing from anyone.
2.) Eh, I would say 'so many'. For me, it happens in about 1 out 15 games or less.
3.) Not always, or even often. Some do and I appreciate it. I usually offer to be sacrificed in matches like that because it's just a crap time for everyone involved. That said, most DC games play out as 'normal' - everyone that stays just trying to play the game and get out of it what they can. My personal preference is when a Killer lets us get just a gen or two done and then resume as normal. Sure, we'll probably lose, but at least it's a salvageable time for all remaining.
4.) No, they really don't. As with point one, Killers are just as likely to be exceptionally salty in post game chat. Especially if there is even 1 BNP or a couple (not even on every surv) 'second chance' perk.
Survivors:
1.) I do it all the time unless I have a challenge that requires me to escape. Unless the Killer insists that I leave (which happens about half the time), and then I leave.
2.) Not sure what you mean here. I'm guessing you mean you haven't gotten very many hooks, but 3-4 gens have gone. The only thing I can tell you is that Survs, perhaps especially in solo Q, are usually well aware of just how fast a game can snowball for them. Sure I can give you a hook because you haven't gotten many, but then you decide to camp/slug/tunnel and suddenly that 4E goes to the 2-3K. It's a lot easier for a Killer to capitalize on Surv goodwill and trust than vice versa.
Do you know how many times I've had a Killer let up on a team when we're getting hammered with 4 or 5 gens left? Exactly 1 and they admitted in post game that they thought we were SWF and when they realized we weren't, they throttled down. I was solo and have no clue about the other 3.
3.) Honestly, this sounds like a lot of confirmation bias. What I see are generally survs writing gg and the Killer sometimes responding. Or the Killer saying gg first and then the survs respond.
4.) I mean, the only way Killers can drag out a win is either let everyone bleed out or 'dribble' survivors and then chase them again. Both of which seem like a lot of effort and a waste of time compared to t-bagging at the gate. But I will also point you to the many Killers that refuse to accept less than a 4K and will in fact let survs do the full bleed out on the ground while camping them in order to keep them from getting up and to get the other person.
I doubt anyone is going to change your mind. These are opinions likely shaped by personal experience, what you've read, and likely some confirmation bias. Which is fine. We've all got that.
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Ditto what a lot of people have said about WGLF. Play normally, and you're just likely to not get very many stacks. A more effective BP gain Perk for survs would be an objectives perk - gens, totems, chests.
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@Edgars_Raven said:
Detectives hunch and small game is probably a better combo. But the speed boost is nice
Nah, Detectives and SG is way overkill. They aren't very complimentary overall and overlap way too much. Running one or the other with Counterforce is probably way more effective than running them with each other because of CFs cleansing speed.
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@CountVampyr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2287580#Comment_2287580
All of that is very true, but with small game you don’t need to focus on that long run to the other side of the map. It’s a good final destination but you should be looking for other pings along the way, too. Unfortunately you’re right, in most matches I’m finding the combo wasted. But man, when you can piss off the killer by cleansing his thrill of the hunt or undying just in the nick it’s totally worth it!
Oh, yeah, I don't disagree. Those matches when you can be Totem Hunter supreme and deny Devour Hope/Undying, Ruin/Undying, or Lord forbid NOED/Undying are great. But IDK, the amount of time wasted to do that in matches that DON'T have those things is just UGH.
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The thing is, Totem Hunter Build isn't that great. Small Game on it's own does the job very well without you needing to zigzag across the map. Detective's Hunch can be an amazing totem perk. Unlike Small Game and Detective's Hunch, Counterforce, on it's own has 1 good point and many draw backs.
Yes, you can cleanse totems faster, but at the cost of:
1.) Someone else getting to that totem before you do, meaning you have to hunt that third totem down hard. This gives the Killer free pressure.
2.) If you're racing back and forth across the map, you're not doing gens and probably exposing yourself to the Killer. Also gives the Killer free pressure.
3.) Adding Small Game to 'buff' the downsides of CF means you're giving up a perk slot for what is, more or less, a redundant set up.
The only way I can see that being useful in a match is if you're going to dedicate yourself to finding totems fast and cleansing them all. And likely because you have one of those 'cleanse an ungodly amount of totems to complete this challenge' deals. In effectiveness, Totem Hunter Builds are only good if the Killer is running Hexes AND none of your teammates are also running totem perks. Otherwise, they're pretty useless outside of also using Inner Strength for heals. But with Inner Strength, you're going to want to space out when you cleanse totems anyway.
But hey, hunting totems is it's own side game. If the set up works for you and gives good results. Run with it.
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Before the mechanic is touched, I'd rather see perks & sabo looked at. Right now you can sabo a hook the killer was carrying a surv to, take a hit, and there's still time to hook the surv in most cases.
Trying to have a 'wiggle out' build is, the majority of the time, just free pressure for the Killer because you'll need at least one other teammate around for a pretty hefty chunk of time just to give decent odds of wiggling out. You using Boil Over to make it harder for the Killer to walk, them close by enough to let you get at least some Flip Flop progress because the Killer is trying to chase them off, them still still close enough to get use of Breakout, and them guessing the right hook in time to get it saboed, but not so soon that Killer redirects to another nearby hook. All the while gen progress slows way down and the Killer can pressure 2 or more survs at once. With the addition of Starstruck, I think it makes even harder.
It's way easier to bring a Flashlight if you want to prevent hooks and doesn't cost the Perk slots, Item(s) and, Add-Ons to make it work. Or if you can get to a pallet for a pallet stun pick up. Completely free in that case.
All that said, I don't think wiggling free/denying a hook state should be particularly easy. I just think the current investment to get it all is way too high.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2285593#Comment_2285593
Omega blink Nurse was definitely broken, but nothing else should have been changed. Nurse does not “negate all survivor defenses”. You can break her line of sight and force her to guess if you are going to run back or not. There is gameplay on both sides. If you watched true’s video, you’d see that killer gets absolutely no gameplay. They just instantly slam pallets and body block. The game needs to be more like Nurse and Spirit and less like holding forward/pallet sim.
The window for breaking LOS with nurse on just fatigue was pretty small. And with scratch marks, etc, it's not like survs were that hard to track post fatigue from what I've been watching. But it does seem like the only defense was breaking LOS and hoping you guessed right. I think it's understandable that players don't like 'and hope I guess right' anymore than 'and hope the cooldown isn't too punishing'. I mean, her blink was far enough to eat up distance gained by most exhaustion perks, she can go around pallets without much, if any penalty with her blink, go through windows without any slow down with her blink and take the shortest route to up or down stairs. Even at loops with high walls, there's generally two ways for survs to go, making even strong loops just 50/50s.
Don't get me wrong, I like playing against Nurse even if I hardly ever win. She can be a much more dynamic Killer to play against in a chase. However, I honestly cannot imagine what that would be like without having the window the cool down provides.
Do you think if they fixed some of the bugs that seem to be plaguing nurse that it'd make her CD less a problem?
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2285447#Comment_2285447
The reason she was nerfed before is the same reason people still want her nerfed: she plays differently and people don’t want to learn. There was no reason for her to get a recharge mechanic.
So, I didn't play against or as pre-nerf nurse. I have watched some gameplay of her though from that time because I was curious. I'm not exactly sure how people are supposed to 'learn to play differently' against a Killer who can negate pretty much all survivor defenses (exhaustion perks, except maybe dead hard on occassion, pallets & windows) with that power/ability being almost on demand for the Killer & significantly enhanced by add-ons. And it seems like Omega Blink Nurse could pretty much cross the entire map with very little penalty at all. Especially with stealth getting so many nerfs for survs. I'm guess Omega Blink build had a lot to do with the prevalence of 5gen/4 slugs game outcomes with Nurse.
I completely get why people did not like/hate the cool down. I don't know if there was a better solution or if that was just the easiest one to implement.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2285157#Comment_2285157
Except that the game is balanced around skilled killers…. Nurse was nerfed hard, as was Pyramid. The burden of being skillful and perfect is all on the killer. Survivor gets things catered to them.
You do realize that the exact same thing can be said for people who want game play 'balanced' around the absolute best survivors, right? "Killers only want easy, thoughtless 4Ks every match and want the game catered to them because some day they might face the best of the best and not win."
I don't think it's exactly beneficial to go through the 'who got what nerfs game' except to say that no, it's not only killers getting nerfs by any stretch of the imagination.
Nurse was nerfed hard but it is still one of the supposed 2 Killers that can take on a highly skilled comp team? Wouldn't that mean she was near unbeatable before?
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Sprint Burst. Yes, the walking around to 'save it' is a significant downside, but it does something that DH just cannot ever do: be useful in dead zones/places where most or all the pallets are gone. I like running SB with Fixated. Not only does it ease the 'walking to save it', but it also makes it easier to get SB back mid chase (if you can last that long).
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2285157#Comment_2285157
I don't think the two are actually comparable in this case because you CAN balance the game around speedrunners AND casual players in a single player game. That's what difficulty settings are for, no?
Nope. Speedrunners, in general, already try for their best times on the hardest difficulty the game has to offer and their success is largely based in massive amounts of practice. Like, the levels of practice that the majority of people are just not going to do, which is my fundamental point. Most survs and killers just aren't ever going to achieve that level of gameplay and probably don't want to. And as the game continues to expand in perks and maps, it's only going to get harder for new/newer players to get there. Does it suck when you run into a group/Killer who has that level of skill? Yes. The matches tend to be short and disheartening for both groups.
The new map (if we ever get it back) isn't going to be as big of a deal to learn for players who already know all the other maps. A new player would have to learn all of them. Not to mention the perks. Perk combinations. Powers. Add ons. Etc.
Every online game I've ever played that wants to have a balanced, "serious" competitive aspect usually adds a separate mode specifically largely because of the disparity of skill that is naturally going to exist between players who dedicate a lot of time AND invest learning all the game's ins and outs and those who aren't.
Solo Q and lower rank matches, in my experience, tend to be more Killer sided than surv. Most matches end in a 3-4K and some of them are painfully short. What happens when the game is balanced around the best of the best survs? I'd be willing to bet that the kill rates would go through the roof.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2285107#Comment_2285107
Single player games are an entirely different beast altogther because you're not playing against other people; only the game itself. THAT to me is no longer an arbitrary distinction.
I'm not say they're exact. But the sentiment remains the same. How many survs in this game are going to reach Oracle level skills? Not very many. How many are going to not only reach that level of skill, but also have a highly coordinated group to play with? Even less. By that same token, should all Killers be balanced around the potential of Spirit & Nurse? Around the absolute best of the best Killer players? I hear a lot about how the game should be balanced around the absolute best SWF survs, and nearly nothing about Killer side. Facing an extremely good Killer is a bloodbath for average survs.
Should either roll be balanced around maps like Lery's? Should they be balanced around the worst RNG maps for surv or Killer? The best?
Let's see the flip side of a highly skilled Wraith against a decent but not the best SWF. How different is that outcome. Trying to base balance off a select few instances is not the way to go.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284121#Comment_2284121
I don't understand this mentality that strong players shouldn't be the point that a game is balanced around. Pro players are a very small portion of many PvP, and yet those games still usually try to balance around that very small portion of players. DBD is exempt from this because...what? Asymmetrical? More than 2 players?
Because it would be similar to balancing a SP game around speedrunners who have invested 1000's of hours learning all the ins and outs of a game. Which is an investment that the majority of players are simply NOT going to do. Besides, this game really does need better matchmaking before any kind of serious balancing is done, IMO. True is a decent Killer, but he's not the best. So, him getting obliterated by a high skilled, tournament level team isn't exactly a huge shock.
There's also a high level of RNG in this game. Put that same team on a map with anemic pallet spawns and dead zones and the outcome might have been different.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2284075#Comment_2284075
As either Myers or GF Spine Chill literally means they cannot use their power. They can’t NOT look at survivors.
Slippery meat was updated because of how unfairly it singled out countering Trappers traps, and affected no other power in the game. It’s about time Spine Chill was looked at so that there isn’t this massive disparity between killers it doesn’t affect too much, to those it’s far too strong against.
I don't think 'cannot use their power' is true. It may make it more difficult in some instances to effectively use their power, but it's not impossible. Surv in a relatively open zone? Theycan definitely get power progress though maybe not as much w/o SC. If it's indoor map, well, there's lots of LOS blockers anyway and if it's a straight hallway, they can get progress regardless. I really think people over estimate how much SC helps in most situations.
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@CoalTower said:
Do gens. They tried punishing the killer for face camping, and survivors abused it to all hell to the point where they removed it.
You have absolutely no right to complain about face camping, when if you didn't abuse the counter, it wouldn't be a thing anymore.
I am getting sick and tired of people continuously suggesting this over and over again. They can not add it, nor will they, because survivors have a very long history of abusing everything they can.
You did this to yourselves.
You're making a lot of assumptions here.
Namely that solot q is going to be able to ID facecamping efficiently without Kindred being basekit. Not to mention, it's just a crappy way to play a game.
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@CashelP14 said:
Don't try and tell me that more killers will stay IF noed is base kit.
I've probably had over 100 games where a killer has DC at 1+ gens, even though they have noed. Literally last night I seen a tunnelling Bubba dc just at the exit doors after the person he was tunnelling was about to escape.
Don't try to say "16 perks + comms.." is that fair. The kill rate wouldn't be above 50% if this game was so massively unfair.
I think, sometimes Killers forget how any advantages they have in a match. From information, basekit, to speed, and more. A 'baby killer' vs. 'baby survs' will result in a wipe for the Killer almost every time. Imagine if Prove Thy Self and Spine Chill were basekit for Survs.
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@latinfla4 said:
Survivors need a second objective right...so why not just make noed basekit for killers? You want more killers to stay? Swf with coms and 16 perks vs 1 killer with 4 perks sounds fair? Gen rushing would not hurt lower level killers as much as the game would have to last longer...and with maps and perks designed to find totems (especially with the new re dlc) would this really be so bad? Even makes sense in the lore with the entity being displeased if there are no sacrifices;so here killer a slight boost get me a kill.
Survivors don't need a secondary objective that takes away from their primary objective. Imagine if Killer's had to break a wall before they could get a sacrifice.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Honestly, in many cases teams get slaughtered because they don’t play cautiously enough. They don’t respect that the opposition could indeed be a skilled, smart, threat.
However, what I will agree with is that Killers have WAY too much available to them that makes learning how to track and hunt almost redundant. There is way too much aura revealing, and why I use Sole Survivor. Killer Instinct can go die a hot, painful death for all I care.
I’ve lost count of the amount of repeat posts I’ve done teaching killers how to take advantage of the crows. Why? Because most killers don’t know how to, and don’t need to, until they’re actually up against a team that are exceptionally good at stealth.
Of course the double edge sword here is that once proficient at using the information available from crows, in conjunction with perks that freely tell killers where survivors are, survivors will never be able to ever hide anywhere from that type of player ever, which isn’t fair. I genuinely have very little trouble finding survivors, and I don’t even use a lot of those meta tracking perks. I feel sorry for the survivors I’m up against sometimes.
Dude, respecting the opposition early enough for surv is a guessing game. Especially if you're playing solo-q. The new Nemesis perk (can't remember what it is) could take away the strongest surv advantage - beginning game. If survs don't get 2-3 gens before the first down, ######### gets really dodgey.
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@ShinobuSK said:
Tunnel, slug, hook bm, tbag and flashlight clicking aren't toxic tho.
The toxicity you looking for will be in DMs and endgame chat
You said it better than I did.
But also, not taking certain actions in game as toxic.
I roll my eyes when a Killer hits me on hook, nods, or whatever. I don't like getting tunneled out of a game, but it happens. Just the same that I think it's amusing as Killer when a surv wants to t-bag, etc. I have the power to force end game where they usually do not. Deal with it and move on.
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A survivor can click their little flashlight and t-bag all they want, and they're still going to win that chase as their friends do all the gens you can't pressure.
Sure, if you fail at the loop. Clicking a flashlight and t-bagging all costs a Surv time. How a Killer deals with that is up to them and the loop they're on. Yes, I've watched survs t-bag me and clicky-clicky at loops. (i am not talking about survs who use the click to reposition.) It's a free hit most of the time.
A killer can tunnel and slug to their heart's content because the only thing that'll come out of it is a couple of hate messages and a report that will go nowhere.
I'm not a fan of tunneling. At all. However, the fact that getting 1 surv out of the game early tips ######### in a Killer's favor is well documented. It's not toxic, it's strategy. The best thing BHVR can do is give perks/map set ups that make tunneling hard to the point of not being feasible. (Easier said than done.)
Any open game like this is going to have people who vary in strength and time spent. DBD is not my main game. It will never be. And that's okay. If the community wants to be 'less toxic' then it's going to predominately require that absolutely noone has the exactly the same 'win conditions' that other people have here. And that some people are just jerks who enjoy trolling.
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@Moundshroud said:
I want to preface this post with the fact that I'm not moaning and groaning, nor screaming the Wraith is OP. I'm just having a hard time seeing Wraith as anything other a new and improved Spirit. He moves almost as fast as her, never loses sight of targets, comes out of cloak with a fast, impressive rundown. He literally has all her high mobility benefits and none of her drawbacks. The methods I use to counter him are now pretty much the same as the ones I use against Spirit. I mean, what am I missing?
The only issue I have with Wraith rn is his lunge length when coming out of cloak. The fact that he can easily body block AND have that lunge radius seems a bit much. There's just too many gens/angles that Wraith can easily block while having angles that he can easily get a hit. Add that with speed add ons and wall hacks? It can be difficult. Granted, I haven't had enough interaction with Wraiths not using addons to get a good idea of what he can do basekit.
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"I did better this game than my last game." That's my personal win condition no matter what role I play.
I've played trapper with a nasty 3 gen right next to shack with basement and absolutely wrecked an equally ranked team with literally 2 traps on shack. I've also gotten obliterated on Coldwind (I hate u corn).
I've had Surv games where I've gotten max BP (rarer with Surv) and games that were just a painful bloodbath.
Don't let anyone dictate the win for you, is my advice. We all want different things from the game.
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@ScottJund said:
To play devil's advocate, most Spirit players are bad just like most survivors are bad, so technically these techniques do actually work a lot of the time.
No, they really don't. The skill need for 'bad' Spirit is much lower for 'bad' Surv. Spirit was the first Killer I played. Against same rank Survs, it was always a 4K. I also picked up Trapper semi-recently and against equal ranked survs, I win more than I lose, but it's not a snooze fest. That's not even counting addons because I haven't used but maybe one or two basic addons as Killer.
Spirit faking a phase is an easy skill to learn and it obliterates most survs at a lot of loops and there is zero counter to it except hope and pray you guessed right.
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Obscure? Gerald Tarrant. Sacrificed his humanity (in other words his family) for immortality to see if ideas to save the world panned out.
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"welp, we're all gonna die." Sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised, but usually the NM user gets tunneled out pretty quick. Had an SQ game with 2 NM's and it was one of the hardest matches I've ever had. The 2 survs running it were decent, but the Killer's attention was all on them, leaving the other 2 of us to try to slam out gens as fast as we could and run interference when possible.
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@Lord_Tony said:
telling people to counter it by crabwalking is stupid.
what kind of immersive gameplay is that?
It's a counter that costs a Killer nothing. They don't slow down. Their objective isn't barred.
What kind of counter is "hide in a locker"?
Ah, right, one designed in the game play mechanics.
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Don't personally care. As long as I get better, that's all that matters to me.
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@Lord_Tony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2167313#Comment_2167313
if charlotte can body block a basement then every killer can body block a basement.
Not every Killer can body block 1 surv and have the ability to chase others.
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@Revolver_Ocelot said:
Spine Chill against naturally stealthy Killers (The Wraith, The Shape, The Pig, The Ghost Face, etc.) is overpowered.
1) One of the best perks in the game.
2) Unlike Premonition, constantly notifies you when the Killer is near and you don't have to face the Killer's direction.
3) Reduces stealth Killers to normal Killers with no maneuvers or abilities other than move and slash. (You'll have to use some skill without it and physically pay attention to your surroundings. Scary right?)
4) No cooldown or deactivation for the remainder of the trial after X seconds of total usage.
My suggestion, at LEAST for a test in a PTB:
1) Give Killers with small terror radii (does not actively have the Undetectable status effect) immunity to Spine Chill.
2) Give Killers with small terror radii a clause in their power that gives immunity to detection perks while actively using their power (mainly while The Shape and The Ghost Face are actively stalking -- they already suffer from decreased movement speed while stalking).
Devs, if you're reading this, at least try a test in a PTB to see how this would affect gameplay. I'm a huge Halloween fan and would like to see The Shape actually able to sneak up on people again.
1.) It's a decent perk, but not the best. Spine Chill can give many false alarms and it doesn't tell you the direction the Killer is coming from. On indoor maps/multiple floor maps, it's usefulness decreases significantly as a detection tool. Nervy survs running SC on multi floor maps essentially give free map pressure because they constantly jump of gens to hide in closets.
2.) See point 1. Spine Chill can also be easily fooled by moonwalking or just not looking straight at the gen where the surv is.
3.) Hardly. Spine Chill doesn't give direction which means that the surv has to guess and can end up walking right into the Killer's path. Spine Chill won't stop Myers from stalking in a dead zone, same with Ghostface. It won't help you on a Pig's lunge if you choose the wrong direction.
4.) The no cooldown is likely because it doesn't give a direction, unlike premonition, and doesn't give a hard aura like other perks.
PTB suggestions - heck I'll try anything once.
1.) No, there shouldn't be immunity anymore than any surv should be granted constant immunity against any Killer perk without some type of action taken (hop in a closest to avoid BBQ, etc.). Completely negating a perk because of what Killer you might face would pretty much toss the perk into the trash bin.
2.) See #1 - some immunity (Killer has to be closer before SC goes off or something, maybe) But just imagine that by running Jane (or whoever), survs could completely bypass a (or multiple) Killer detection perk(s).
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2164759#Comment_2164759
with how this community acts almost all the time can you blame them for treating us like we're 12?
Yes. BHVR isn't mom or dad. They're a company who made a video game people play. I fully understand why they would make an end game filter. I'm all for people having that option if they want it. But, it should be optional.
Personally, I say my ggs and go the majority of the time. So, it's possible I don't see the worst most of the time. Even still, give people the option and move on.
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Felix, Kate, Feng, & jake
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Inherently? No. However, a controller has more limitations on preciseness. So, odds are that between a console player and a M&K player of equal skill, the M&K player will have an advantage.