Why Tunnelling is Problem, Genrush is not?
Title.
So much complains about camping and tunnelling. But noone talks about killer problems. Genrush for example. So many times killers are losing 2 or 3 gens in early game. And that makes game so sweaty for them. Survivors complaining about tunneller killers makes game so sweat but they are also makes games sweat for killers because of genrush.
Even Nurse can be defeat by genrush. So why this is not problem? How can killer try 12 hooks with this genrush problem?
Comments
I don’t know about that. There’s plenty of threads talking about gen times
Because it’s not the same thing, gen rush has counters but tunneling doesnt
The difference, while those sweaty survivors are doing their only objective you get to play the game: chase, down, and hook survivors. When you camp and tunnel survivors all they get to do is hang around and then die immediately after unhook. Killers get to play the game and maybe lose or maybe win, survivors get to wish they had spent $20 on a different game.
How gen rush has counters? Ruin? So many maps have so bad totem locations, so many times i am losing ruin so early, even with Undying.
Pop? Good perk but you need to catch survivor, hook and then you have to back before they finish gen. And good survivors can steal good time from killer. Losing 3 gens in early game is common this days.
Because survivors need to hold m1. And when they hear TR, they have to hold Shift + W. And if killer is near, use pallet and run around and make killer to break it. How exactly this is fun for killers?
Do you think it’s fun for survivors to get camped and tunneled to death? I swear if tunneling wasn’t a problem there would be no such thing as genrush.
have you ever heard of corrupt intervention, surveillance and other perks? They are very good for gen defense.
Sure tunneling has counterplay, use LT Walls and jungle Gyms wisely. And use you D-Strike. When you get tunneled, you will probably die to 100%. but it's on you to juke the Killer long enough that the other ones can do the gens and punish the Killer for tunneling.
I am already using some gen defend perks because i have to do that. Even with them, generators are flying. And did you heard Dead Hard, DS, BT, UB? They all are second chance perks and they all helps againts tunnelling and camping. But if you are bad at chases, you will down again ofcourse.
And survivors are reason of tunnelling. If killer lose 3 gens with 2 hooks, what killer has to do? If survivors makes game fast, ofcourse killer will play more dirty.
Question was for survivor mains because i am not seeing they are talking about gen times.
Maybe you should play Killer higher than rank 10 ^^ cuz i bet your one of the persons turning into a camping Killer. Try redranks my friend
Nice to see that you're mentioning my thread, albeit indirectly.
Because it doesn’t effect them in a negative way I guess? Killers don’t really talk about tunnelling or slugging that much it’s mostly survivors complaining about it just like killers with gen rushing
That problem has to talk more.
This is reason of there is not so much killer mains. This is reason of looooong survivor queues.
This needs to fix. Why killer punishing by gen times, they played good without mistake but gen times made them lose. I do not think, this is fair.
A true genrush has no counter.
Have you ever heard of BT, DS, DH, Second Wind, or good looping?
It isn't fair. But simply increasing gen times isn't a fix, for a multitude of reasons.
I think this is another chicken or egg argument. Do survivors gen rush to counter tunneling and camping? Or do killers tunnel and camp because of gen speeds? Would survivors slow down on gens and do more chests, totems, heals , etc. if they were sure not to be tunneled? Would killers really stop tunneling if the gens went slower, or would we just get that kill rate into the 90's.
This is the biggest question/disagreement between to two sides. I agree, people should play both sides with equal intensity and learn a bit of empathy towards to plight of their competitors .
Adrenaline needle, Syptic agent, Sprint burst, Lithe, BL. Most gen regression/slowdown perks are average/garbage or can be lost in first 30 seconds. End of discussion close thread.
If generators would be more slower, devs can add more counter for tunnel. For example more anti-tunnel perk. Buff DS (Make it useful after both hooks) etc. Or make BT basekit. But first generator problems have to fix.
So many times killers has to tunnel. Because 4 survivors can finish generators faster, outing one of them is best counter of genrush.
Again?
Almost all your posts are putting survivors and killers against each other.
We need to work together as a community to solve the games problems and build a better dbd, this isnt the right way.
I don’t take it as a counter, if I’m getting tunneled I will die, yes I can distract the killer but if I don’t escape it’s not a counter.
Dead hard and borrowed time are always in my build, and even then my teammates get tunneled and die
I have my friend, you can still win without tunneling.
😂 😂
You're not wrong
I already said. Fix gen problems. And add more anti-tunnel perks. And actually survivors can get anti-tunnel power to their base-kit. I will not mind that.
Yes I actually have. Borrowed time and dead hard are a must have nowadays. I have to waste 2 perk slots because the killer might decide to be a piece of #########. I would love to run some fun builds but you can’t really.
Well i am sorry but maybe they are not good at loops. Because when i get tunnel, i am making killer lose the game. If you wanna kill me, you will lose other survivors. That is your cost for my life.
If survivors learn how to loop well, DS and DH will be enough for defend.
You mean like how slowdown perks are mandatory as killer?
Gun rush = tunneling, slugging and camping.
I personally want many chases and to give you all many hooks, but I'm not just gonna let you win because of bad maps, unfair tile layouts etc.
Losing isn't fun especially when every survivor feels the need to wait at exits to tbag. I want to chase and have fun, but certain maps, spawns and tiles dont allow it. It's why mmr will be horrible.
You can only loop for so long, people have a life and are not willing to put in thousands of hours to become loop gods.
Yeah, at least they do something. Dead hard gets you exhausted on the ground
I know weirdest part I find tunneling just uhhhhhhh. Reason being they pop 3 quick gens and you target weakest out real quick to make that time up is smart/strategic. Tunneling the weakest or anyone right off start (I seen lots of red ranks do this weekend) is just straight trash. I don't really sweat it anyhow even if they manage to pop all 5 gens and have 3-4 alive at that point endgame is a whole other game and they will fuk it up. 1k turns to 2k, 2k turns to 3k, etc and hell might even get them all. You should always be able to get at least one in endgame.
We rarely blame the killer for tunneling (our definition might differ from others though) because most matches require them to go hard on the survivors. Unless the killer outclasses the team tremendously (or plays an s tier killer) they just have no chance, especially if they go out of their way to be nice and generous.
Yeah but that is only way punish killer for tunnelling. If you are not good at loop, killer will target you.
But there is only one way to fix this: Fix gen problems and add anti-tunnel power to survivor's basekit. Maybe DS. Maybe something different. I do not know. But devs have to fix DbD problems, we all paid for game and we all paying for new DLCs. Game has to be better, we all deserves that.
What's gen rushing?
Survivors have one objective and when they complete the objective, it's unfair?
The speeds are not an issue and slowing them down would not be a good idea. Blame the devs.
Nice job proving that you're bad at survivor. I'm not saying anything else. Figure it out.
Agreed.
Tunneling has counters.
Being a decent looper with your teammates taking hits for you once in a while to allow shift w play will shut down tunnelers hard.
Sadly if your playing solo your teammates are more content shacking their fist at bad tunneler killer at a safe distance rather then getting in there and actually helping.
Just like (most) genrush cases are killers making mistakes (most) tunneling cases are survivors making mistakes
Agreed 100%. The problem is spawn points proven by their new perk Lethal Pursuer. Scott pointed this out before release and every game I ran it there was only 1 game where 2 survivors spawned together. Spawn points are giving free pressure in 2-4 different locations right from the start. That''s the problem not gen times you are right as a whole I just filled in the blanks for you.
And i am blaming devs already? I am talking one of the game problems. Devs have to fix this. I am not blaming survivors because they are doing generators.
I don't like using youtubers when defending my viewpoint because it depends on the youtuber, right? Ohtofu says that killers just need to be good at applying pressure. Yes maybe the first two gens might fast but a good killer can snowball pressure. I agree with him but it doesn't make that fact.
Good to see someone who knows that the phrase "gen rushing" doesn't make sense. All in all we agree on something which is crazy for these forums. :)
Agreed. Devs have a lot to fix in this game.
Those perks are easily baited out. Not to mention if you lose 3 gens pretty fast that is your own fault for not pressuring enough.
And if you screw up that the last gens are too far apart, then its on you aswel. Playing killer isnt about just using perks and brainded chasing survivors till you win. If you cant come up with your own "way" to put good pressure on the map, then you will always get genrushed.
And for sake of the discussion: genrush and tunneling are two different things. tunneling essentially means unless you get really lucky or the killer leaves you will survive otherwise its a guaranteed death. While genrush has easy counterplay and control if the killer is smart.
I agree.
Proving that I am bad? What are you talking about
Tunneling means that you will die if you are playing solo queue, you can’t do anything about it
I beg the differ.
Even if none of the killers ever camp, there will still be gen rush believe it or not.
Ruin, even with undying will go down very quick much of the time.
Pop will take time to set up as you need to down a survivor first, then go to a gen which mostly pops before you actually get there.
Corrupt most of the survivors will wait it out and then rush.
Surveillance is nice if the have been working on that gen before, but not before and breaking off a chase for it is not woth it.
Discordance is only good when there are 2 people or more on it otherwise it's useless.
Beside you have to chase both off but you can only chase one at the time.
A camping killer you fight by gen rush and escape plain and simple.
Tunneling killer you need to have a good understanding of tiles and waste as much time as you can by using the tiles effectively.
Another option for tunneling killers is when you see a killer do that,go take a protection hit or bodyblock him.
Either way you give that survivor a chance to get away and maybe you get the killers attention.
Just a little example.
https://youtu.be/Q6Y1dGd3k7Q
Maybe not my best round but it shows a bit how i use tiles and tes it's an old one i know
There’s ten posts a day complaining about survivors doing their objectives, but I’m sure you know that
Not a big fan of streamers actually. Sometimes when I'm feeding a baby I watch one and when RE was in PTB naturally I wanted to see clips/videos. I came across Scott's video on the spawn point topic and thought at the time Yeah maybe but sure I'll try the perk for a while when it comes out. That is when I was convinced is from my game play and what I see in my own games with my eyes because he only showed one example in the video I seen and I always have been the type to think/do my own thing. To the point though aside from trashcans who tunnel/camp from the start (I really hate that) everything is just a strategy to win the game. I feel the games killers feel gens flew off the board are most likely these games were the survivors spawned separately. That's 3-4 gens being worked on right from the start, in 3-4 locations, and hard to "Just apply pressure" to that. It's not gen rushing, messing with gen times won't be good, all I know is survivors spawning separated is an offering that apparently gets played at random by the Devs.
In fact they are super related. Gen rush makes killers to be forced to camp and tunnel, but players that only play survivor side can't see that.
Honestly I think these two things are a lot more similar than people here are saying they are. Both are the players doing their objectives as efficiently as possible, Both are met with frustration by the other side, and both are caused by poor game design/balance.
I play survivor solo at rank 2-1. And i change perks every second to third game, because ITS FUN. So complaining about not beein able to use the perks you want, thats on you. My escape rate is just below 40%, but i do keep my rank, so it cant be that bad;)
I`m killer at around rank 5. And i sure as hell can`t use the perks i WANT to use - Because SWF and gen speeds...
That's the main problem is us killer mains also,these are the reasons Thano and Pop was changed, if the killer just tunnels and camp which alot of killer mains do,survivors can't escape .
That's why I, they should change just the aspect of red ranks ,where the gen speeds are slower for the higher ranks but I'm playing at rank 8 and getting purple and green ranks who still blaze through my gens there's always a red rank amongst them too
Bully squad very likely