This is why Killer hate Dead Hard
https://youtu.be/0zo0uY04ESA
This is my gameplay of Billy going against a Injured good looper that got mind gamed but got saved by Pressing E to undo his mistake.
So any suggestions on how could I have countered the Dead Hard on this? The Dead Hard here was both used as to dodge the hit and used for the distance to get to the Pallet. I can't understand people who defend Dead Hard that "Press E to be exhausted on Ground XD" or "or "Just bait it?". I commonly encounter these kinds of Dead Hards on the Survivors I encounter and I am curious how can you defend Dead Hard by saying its a Perk that does work most the time.
Comments
I think the perk is fine tbh, like you yourself said, you can bait it, and when they do it once, you know they have it, making it even easier to do.
Also this perk is basically useless in console at the moment... that thing basically freezes you in place for 1 sec and get hit regardless.
Anyway both sides have perks they hate, i personally despise Tinkerer for example.
just get closer if you can already hit them, see if they'll panic. even if she'd use dead hard, likely still woulda gotten the hit. i think
This is pretty much how you bait it, go for a quick hit rather than a lunge if they have Dead Hard
Yea I am going for these too but these seems to not work if Survivors are near pallets or windows as they can just go for Distance. Like above I would have gotten closer but Cherly was next to pallet and window. I swung and the Dead Hard was both used to dodge the hit and was used for distance to the pallet.
She used it to actually dodge your attack instead of DH for distance, so I don't see the problem.
If DH had an animation lock after using it so you couldn't throw pallets or vault, it'd be completely fine-- though you'd start seeing a hell of a lot more other exhaustion perks.
Thats how its meant to be used, since DH in a Dead Zone does largely nothing, at best gives you 3 more secs before getting downed right away
Few things:
1. Maybe feathering your chainsaw could've made her use it a bit earlier.
2. It looked like you were close enough that if you would've waited just a bit longer you could've downed her as soon as the I-frames ended.
3. Continuing to chase at shack isn't the best idea.
I agree with your main point, but I have to play devil's advocate here a little and say this isn't a good example.
I have a question.
You use pallets to avoid getting hit right? So if the survivor dead hard to the pallet doesn't that technically mean they are using dead hard to dodge a hit and thus using dead hard for its original purpose?
Looks to me like they had a plan, and would have run that loop different if they didn't have dead hard. Once they used dead hard, they played much safer, and then got caught by the Spirit Fury. It's not like they just pressed E. They timed it quite well. Much like you used your Spirit Fury well to get the down.
Also, you had a three gen on the other side you kind of ignored for this chase. Maybe you didn't notice it. Takes about 54-ish seconds for them to finish the gen, with Pop, you probably could've taken a gen over there down a bit, and focused more on that side of the map, let the two gens on the far side get done. Luckily, despite the 90 second chase, three gens don't get done in that time. But you do lose out on the three gen you could've had.
It's hard to say how you could've countered that, not because of DH but because we don't see anything from Cheryl's perspective. At what point does she notice you turning around? We also can't really say how Cheryl would've reacted to different things. But I think there were a few ways you could've ended that chase faster, though I'm not an expert by any means so I'll let others say one way or another. (I could very well be wrong.)
Feel like we have a "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law" thing going on here.
I've seen some players hurt themselves more using dead hard at improper timings with the animation lock they're in. DH little too close to the window lost momentum and getting a mid or slow vault instead of a fast vault. Or DH through a pallet and was a little too far from said pallet to throw it down getting whacked and the classic DH into a wall or something. Having a lock after the DH animation would likely kill the perk.
You swung into an obvious pallet play. Had you not lunged, you would have avoided the stun on the pallet.
Also "that got mindgamed". You're assuming that the looper didn't know that your mindgame wouldn't matter at that moment because they know the distance DH will get them, allowing them to avoid the obvious M1 and get the stun because you were overeager for the hit to end the chase. This is a common mistake ppl make with skilled DH users (note, I am not a skilled DH user, but I respect the the knowledge and patience other survs have when using this perk). They assume their mindgame worked when in reality, the surv read it and knew they had a clear path to not only avoid the down, but get the stun, and make it to another strong loop.
The flip side of this is when a surv doesn't read the mindgame correctly, DH's and ends up downed.
Well either way, She would have gotten to the pallet by using Dead hard for distance. My Point is that Dead hard feels like a cheap "Press E to undo mistake" for Killers. That why I and most Killers hate it. We feel cheated for our good play only to get taken it taken away from us by a simple Press of a button.
Sometimes the perk is literally uncounterable. But realistically, that isn't most of the time. The perk has counterplay in most situations, but yeah, it can be completely safe and give the survivor something extremely relevant for free. I do not see the issue as that concept applies to most perks. Obviously Deadhard is actually good unlike 90% of the perks in the game, so the value is more noticeable. But idk, how would they even change it without making it worthless?
I understand why it feels that way and that does suck. My only point is that it may not be a case of being cheated. Good survs are aware of where pallets and windows are. What can feel like a very good mindgame to a Killer that got 'cheated' may also very well be going against a surv with good situational awareness and knowledge of how best to use their perk. They aren't using it to undo a mistake, they're using it exactly how they were intending if the Killer got close enough.
Personally, I'm not that good, but I do watch a few players who play surv that are. Most of the time they know exactly how to play a tile with DH and when the Killer tries to mindgame them, the Killer is wasting time. When they make a true mistake (misjudging a mindgame, distance, or whatever) DH doesn't rarely buys them anything except a couple more seconds unless they successfully 360 the Killer.
Pretty much how I feel. Making a mindgame/outplay and losing it all over a simple "e" and having that miss snowball into a potential loss is infuriating.
But there's also times where even a good player will be stuck in the open and get no use out of it.
It's a glass cannon perk really. But my god can it be a kick in the dick sometimes as killer.