Withered8
Withered8
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- Withered8
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How do you classify top 1 percent survivor mains? Because I know alot of surviovrs many would call good and i'd be strugglign to admit they are decent.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1852213#Comment_1852213
bad killers should not be made for the sake of being bad, especially if that bad killer is also boring to play against and as. you do realize a legion will never be as good as a nurse because nurse can teleport and cover distances very fast regardless of windows or pallets and legion just runs and injures people just to give himself a 4 second stun which a nurse doesn't get unless she misses. there was a line drawn, it was hillbilly pre-rework, reliable mobility and skillful and potent chase power but behaviour removed that line for some reason.
Wait what so you think no killer should be weaker than pre rework Billy? Jeez that's really pushing how strong you want every killer to be. There will always be weak killers whether you like it or not, because someone has to sit at the bottom. Compared to many of the pre rework and buffed killers, legion is very good.
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I Don't see how ghostface and legions perks are better then demos, which are actually quite decent. Surge is great, mindbreaker has uses after it's buff and cruel minutes can make for some crutch plays. Agree with a fair amount on this list although plague should definitely be top. All three of her perks are very strong.
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Top knot zaps away all of the counterplay oni has in his power and puts him on incredibly easy mode. 95% of oni mains like you also agree on this. Idk why they thought adding an Insta dash add-on was good when they literally took instasaw away on Billy for this exact reason.
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Hags probably a lot weaker than S tier, she's like Freddy a noob stomped but coordinated teams will beat her. I'd swap deathsligner with oni, move twins up to A because they are insane when played according to their slugging campy playstyle and swap Billy and bubba because a good Billy will still dominate a good bubba anyday.
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I'm with the devs in this one. Legion really isn't that bad for a low-mid tier and people also need to recognise that a line needs to be drawn where you will say killers will not be buffed over this point, otherwise killers will all just be buffed until they are all nurse level. Legion fits that bottom line perfectly, just like nurse fits the line for how strong a killer should get perfectly.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I would wager the 180 degree flick is going to go away. Console players simply can't do what PC Blight players can do because of hardware limitations. PC players can toggle the mouse DPI up to 16000 mid-rush and throw their mouse across their desk for insane flicks.
They'll probably overcorrect like they did with Oni, make a bizarre denial that is objectively false, then put it back to something between the original and the nerf.
I'd hope that they make console specific changes to his turning and flick rather than nerf him on pc and hardcap him, because that would incredibly hurt his pc experience and his extremely high skill cap is something which we need in this game considering killers like spirit and Freddy exist.
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@Orionbash said:
Why would they touch Blight when Freddy/Spirit are sitting way too comfortably? What a waste of time and resources.
Exactly my point and why I'm hoping he isn't touched, but they could pull a Billy and nerf him whilst doing nothing about spirit and Freddy.
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Like the idea, but like others said you would need to definitely then review some of the perks that cause that status, like sloppy and bloodecho, as it could make them too strong.
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I mean at the end of the day this is a valid point, some killers will complain all day long about swfs but they'll happily destroy 10 solo q lobbies and casuals beforehand.
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Yea don't think they've seen a good blight
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1849388#Comment_1849388
No, there are some cars you bump off and some you slide off. It seems random.
You can bounce off of the truck ones, the low ones you will slide off of unless you are coming directly at one of the sides.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1849324#Comment_1849324
16 meters and it was already changed.
He was super weak in the PTB because of his wack hitbox.
He's still weak on Console.
Interested in how you would suggest improvements to console, because i'm worried that they'll ruin him on pc if they make him easier.
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@Tsulan said:
Problem with him is, that his power is unreliable. Lets bump off that car to hit that survivor aaaaand i slided past it.
I agree that it is annoying you slide off of some things but i wouldn't call it unreliable. The things you slide off of are always the same so once you play him enough you'll learn what you can and cant bounce off.
@LiunUK said:
i hope they fix his collision on some objects where he slides for no reason like the new car models
Likewise yea it is annoying that you do slide off of things, but it can be helpful in some scenarios. I think the reason you slide off of those objects is to keep it inline with billy's chainsaw hitbox in that you cant bumper along those objects often either.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Im not disagreeing with you but weren't people complaining about him when he first came out.
People were complaining that he was too weak, but then he got a couple of buffs and people learned how to play him that they realised he is actually really good.
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@AhoyWolf said:
Since most people are happy with the Blight, there isn't any reason to change him, his PoV will probably be changed, but that's probably it.
Also some of his perks will hopefully get revisited, like Hex: Blood Favour really needs some changes, that perk is the worst designed thing in this game.
Felix's perks will probably get some love as well, mainly Visionary.
@ChurchofPig said:
I believe they said they would look at the previous chapter and see if anything needs changing. Since Blight makes everyone happy, I don't think they'll do anything to him. I think this will probably be Clown's rework midchapter.
Like @AhoyWolf said, they'll probably just change his PoV and some perk nerfs/buffs from that chapter, but that's about it. That chapter only really needs minor changes, but nothing dealing with Blight's actual power as far as gameplay.
Hopefully at least
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I love those teams, usualyl means ill have really interactive games and fun chases. Infact sometimes i even dodge to look for these kinda swfs. I'll take one of those anyday over an immersed team who hugs gens.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1848835#Comment_1848835
There is winning because they are good, and then there is winning because of basic math and game mechanics.
1 killer- 4 survivors - 5 gens
Walk from point A to point B and say you find a survivor instantly. That survivor runs to a low wall loop with zero mindgame (not that many loops have a mindgame at all) you are forced to waste a set amount of time to break that pallet and leave or just leave and find someone else right?
Now you have wasted time finding that survivor, chasing that survivor and are now wasting time walking to another survivor all while they are ticking away at 3 individual gens and the one you left is now on their own gen. you probably just lost 50% on 3 gens and got nothing out of it while survivor defence is still at 100%
a good team will always get 3 gens done before you hook the first survivor if they have played long enough to understand all the loops.
I hate when people use OTZ or TRU3 as examples when they do something as simple as stand still for 2 seconds on a corner of a loop and the survivor runs into them. This never works!
Basic maths only works if your assuming that a game will go a certain way and there will be no gen perks, no misplays, no outplays, no anything. So many people seem to forget that there are so many factors which can change how games go. For example, if the killer has corrupt, then ur gen math is immediately thrown out of the window. If a killer gets a down fast then not all three of those gens will pop. If the killer rotates or hit and runs then all the gens won't be able to be pressured. You can almost never assume a game will go in a precise away considering how easy it is for one small thign to completely change the tide of the game.
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@trick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1846847#Comment_1846847
OKAY SO , picture this , "4 man deathsquad" (dumbass term btw but okay) meets killer in a match . one of them makes severe error when saving . killer wins 4k more from luck , but he wins.
Next round for the 4man , and they win because killer wasnt so lucky and they didnt make same mistake twice. I mean thats the way the human brain works on a basic level so good luck nerfing that.
THIS IS DBD get over it. STOP MOANINg about balance xD if ur a good player on survivor and u have a good team obviously u wud win, i mean whats un-normal about that. its same for killers, when i get in a certain mood on killer i honestly dont care if they are swf, i will try to win by any means.
Exactly this is what i think people don't get. If you're up against a 20k hour swf and you've 1k hours as killer and are playing with a pretty basic build, it makes sense that you aren't going to win, it's like complaining in any other pvp game that you lost to someone who was better than you. And I can imagine if someone said let's balance for infectious slugging nurses that there would be a huge uproar.
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@Adjatha said:
Pyramid Head's Add Ons need a total overhaul. All of his trail-based add-ons (increased use time, increased duration, increased recharge, increased killer instinct, ) need to be lumped together into one or two add ons. All the ones that apply the useless Blindness/Oblivious/Hemorrhage need to be trashed entirely. Then, all those empty spots need something GOOD and/or INTERESTING instead. Stuff like other killers get to enhance or alter their powers.
Maybe the shockwave throws the torment trail down too. Or an add on to massively increase the recovery time on missed shockwaves. Or an addon to mute the sounds of using the knife. Or one that makes survivors who go through the trails to keep pulsing with killer instinct for, like 30 seconds instead of 1 second. Or turning the shockwave into a cone. Or an addon that makes the trails injure healthy survivors (but not affect injured or tormented survivors). Or one that puts a cool down on your shockwave but massively increases your speed while dragging a trail along the ground. Or makes your trails invisible after 30 seconds of being created. Or having your trails no longer inflict torment, but reveal the auras of survivors within 8 yards of them. Or whatever. Anything. Anything at all other than what he currently has.
No thanks. Some of those ranged attack addons sound more busted than old ph.
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Honestly I think at this point there are far more problemtic things which need to be adressed on both sides than NOED. Sure it is unfun and does reward killers for not playing well but it isn't uncounterable and in a swf it's not really a big deal, considering the tradeoff for killers is lossing a perk slot and that you have the whole game to get totems without any penalties being applied by the perk.
Ruin undying in my opinion is far worse than NOED, becaues unlike noed you don't have the whole game to cleanse totems, it actively applies pressure right from the get go and regardless of whether you cleanse all totems or not, the perks are still going to do a HUGE amount of damage.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1847647#Comment_1847647
have you ever considered most red rank survivors are actually just average skilled, make multiple mistakes, and depend on overpowered perks to escape? not denying ruin undying base would be overpowered with devour hope pop corrupt builds
And most killers aren't just average skilled, make multiple mistakes and depend on overpowered perks to win?
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Arguably more boring than deathslinger.
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@konchok said:
The twins need a bit of a rework for them to work well. Nerf what makes them unfun and buff strategies that aren't currently viable.
- Victor will always grab the face regardless of whether the survivor is injured or not (nerf)
- The time to remove Victor is increased (exact amount to be decided, buff)
- If Victor is on someone's face, Charlotte gets a 5 percent increase in speed for 10 seconds (buff)
- While victor is attached, the survivor cannot vault windows or pallets (buff)
- The time to switch between Victor and Charlotte is instant (buff)
- However, to prevent constant spamming between the 2 (You can swap up to 3 times and have a recharging timer that you'll need to wait on before you can swap again)
I believe with these changes, the twins would still be viable, if not more so, but it would encourage a more chase orientated ability and less about slugging.
Some of those sound like decent changes, although not sure about the unable to throw pallets or windows when victor is on you. Means charlotte could send victor onto you and theres absolutely nothing you can do once charlotte comes onto you, because breaking victor requires you to stop moving for a couple of seconds.
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1846609#Comment_1846609
You are wrong. BT was only "recently" changed that you don't have to mend, but previously they buffed it so you don't need to if you stay in killers T radius. And secondly, they did indeed buff survivors that you can pick them up quicker from dying state. You saying recovery bar "never changed" is false. It has been changed 2 times. First time like around 2016 and second time in roughly 2019 both were buffs.
When and how was the recovery bar buffed in 2019?
And no men's timer still goes down even if you are in a chase, it's whether you are running or not. Dont believe me? Go test in a kyf urself
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1846424#Comment_1846424
You specifically said "when haddonfield infinite windows existed" so i'm asking you, what windows got nerfed? Also what of the survivor buffs i mentioned didn't happen? because all of them did. Sure list every killer buff. We will see who will have more buffs and nerfs. If you start naming every addon nerf i will mentioned every single addon nerf killers got as well
Haddonfield infinite windows on the fences were removed. Theres only those small window loops on the fecnes now.
BT still goes down if ur in the terror radius, it only doenst go down if you're running, it's been like that for ages. What are you talking about with 99ing your recover bar? That's what it's always been like, never changed. Only one anti-slugging perk was added and that's soulguard, a perk which is no where near overpowered. If you're having a problem with slugging perks, don't slug.
When infinites were on majority of maps, maps were far larger, badham was even stronger than it is today, when haddonfield infinite windows existed, before ruin rework, before ruin undying, before blight, pyramid head, deathslinger, freddy rework, bubba buff, doctor buff, small clown and plague buffs, insta heal nerfs, medkit nerfs, toolbox nerfs, flashlight animation change/shadow nerf, multi gen repair nerfs, great skillchecks on gen nerfs, balanced nerf - This was the list I gave you before and I'm waiting for you to beat it for survivor buffs.
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Can mostly agree with ur list.
Personally i find all killers fun exept for spirit, deathslinger and occasionally hag, twins, freddy and iri stone trappers.
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Went from pig back in 2018 to nurse, then billy and now blight.
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It's actually interesting how nearly everyone on even the forums thinks there's problems with spirit. Yet for some reason the devs don't seem to have any plans in changing her, even Freddy and ds have planned changes.
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Ehh he's just boring to play for me. I don't wanna just tunnel people off hook and have less chases cause that's what I enjoy as killer. His ranged attack is also just meh. It's got limitations so you can't do cool shots like huntress, and you often end up baiting more than shooting the actual power which is just eh. Would rather go for cool hatchets and be able to hatchet in all situations than be limited to baiting most of the time.
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@bjorksnas said:
Simple, if the game wasn't balanced around optimal play, playing against it might be so difficult and soul crushing that many killers would probably stop playing killer, a 4 man swf is the strongest thing in the game right now with all the free things that come with communication, knowing you have good teammates, and knowing your entire team has good perks, when to save, when to be on gens, where to go to split in gens perfectly so the killer can't chase more than one survivor off gens at a time, running far in advance even against stealth killers if any other teammate has aura or line of sight
there is currently a lot you can already do to bully killers as swf saying we should balance the game below that so they get even stronger isn't how trickle down game balancing works (balance for the best players and it will balance decently for all players below that) the only problem is a lot of players are just bad, maybe just swf instead of complaining that solo queue is weak and they don't directly balance for it
@GeordieKiller said:
The game should be balanced around the top end/deathsquads players as they can showcase any balance issues that the game has and all competitve pvp games do balance around the top end not mid level play
Take overwatch for example ( my most popular example lol) and the introduction to Brigg she literially changed the meta in the overwatch league to the the infamous GOAT meta ( 3 tanks and 3 support) before they had to nerf her and introduced the 222 system to try and balance the game so DPS can be used. Also at the current moment they are in the process of balancing Moria as she is heading to the same way as brig was. If it wasnt for the top players players who know how to fully utlise their powers we would never see any balance changes as mid or lower level players wouldnt showcase the balancing issue that those characters cause. Also i have seen posts of people who are lower level in OW saying brigg didnt need nerfs, shes weak, she needs buffs etc but its a matter of fact that the top end/deathsquads of OW showcased how powerful brigg was in the right hands and the devs at blizzard spent several months nerfing brigg down despite what mid lower level people said about brigg.
I do strongly believe all competitve PVP games which dbd is when it comes to balancing should be based off the top level players and cause a trickle effect to the mid and low level players.
Average killers should never be able to beat a good swf though, that makes no sense. You can already beat sweaty deathsquads by running the killer equivalent sweat builds/killers. You nerf deathsquads and what's stopping the killer counterparts at that level? I'd be fine if they made small changes to broken things on both sides but drastically nerfing swf is not the way to go, especially when these days it's more than feasable to beat swfs
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think the issue often gets framed incorrectly. It's not that a killer should be able to take an average build and beat a deathsquad, or vice versa. The issue is that you are given absolutely no indication as to what you're about to face in a lobby.
Not all perks are created equal. That's fine. But I should be able to make an informed decision about what I'm going to run. My Corrupt only build is fine 99% of the time. That doesn't mean I should have to lose the one time it isn't. It's really silly to lose because I got out-perked when I have no way of knowing it's about to happen. I go weeks without having the gens done with Corrupt as my only slowdown. Should I just being Corrupt/Ruin/Undying every game on the off-chance I run into a full meta 4 stack who is actually good? There won't be any indication beforehand so I'd better prepare just in case. That'll be fun for everyone.
That's a interesting discussion. I do think it would be nice for both sides to see what they are up against but there would be many other side effects and problems which come with that, as to why good matchmaking would do a better job.
Although it's not like survivors have any information about what the killer is at all. At least as killer you can see profiles and recognise people and see if they all have items or same cosmetics etc, survivor gets nothing. I'd imagine plenty of survivors would doge if they could see their killer, no-one would play against ruin undying or spirit or Freddy or a slugging infectious nurse etc.
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1845090#Comment_1845090
Before we continue have you played killer much? i'm seriously wondering if you even played killer 1+ year ago. Because let me tell you, killer is A LOT harder right now. Ruin nerf was overall was big punch to killers gut, because it was literally only thing that could really slowdown survivors early from getting 2-3 gens popping early as normal m1 killers cannot pressure 4 survivors simultaneously. All meta killers have been nerfed, some less than others. You saying that 3 "reworked" maps is the reason killer is easier now? i mean how many "infinites" did they really fix? I can only remember groaning store house, iron works.. what else? swamp was made slightly smaller
Survivors have been getting a lot of tiny buffs since then, i cannot even remember all of them. Some of them have been good buffs, but if you give 10 small buffs they become significant buff. I remember first buff was adding feature that you cannot hit unhooked survivor unless until they actually can start running, BT didn't run out as long as you were in killer's terror radius, slugging was made harder as you now need milli second to get fully recovered survivor up, new anti slugging perks added. There are plenty of them. Lastly haddonfield infinites haven't been touched, windows are exactly the same. Only thing that this map got was nerf of balanced landing.
Wow you tell me off for supposedly not playing killer yet you have no idea about pretty much any of the map the map changes?
Here's the infinittes that were removed:
Coal tower, groaning storehouse, iron works, wretched shop, suffo pit, abetour, cowshed, torment creek, pantry and badham. Haddonfield fence infinittes were also removed fyi. This sound like three windows to you?
So many maps were also shrunk and the number of times was significantly decreased on MANY maps, go look through patch notes if you don't believe me.
Half of your other survivor buffs didn't even happen, so please get ur facts right. For every survivor buff you could mention the last year I could list you at least three.
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If ur not trolling at this point then i'm genuinely worried for u.
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1843547#Comment_1843547
People say that "Killer has never been easier" which is not true at all. Last 1+ year have been mostly killer nerfs. Every patch there was maybe like 3 killer nerfs in exchange of one survivor nerfs. Any major survivor nerf there was in this time was brand new part nerf, insta heal nerf, few windows nerfed and balanced landing nerf, multi repair gen repair nerf (which was only 2 second added for duo, insignificant)
Cannot even count what from killer side got nerfed because there was so many
Wow so you would rather play killer a year ago than now? When infinites were on majority of maps, maps were far larger, badham was even stronger than it is today, when haddonfield infinite windows existed, before ruin rework, before ruin undying, before blight, pyramid head, deathslinger, freddy rework, bubba buff, doctor buff, small clown and plague buffs, insta heal nerfs, medkit nerfs, toolbox nerfs, flashlight animation change/shadow nerf, multi gen repair nerfs, great skillchecks on gen nerfs, balanced nerf.
Now let's list things that have improved for survivor. Less bs hits through vaults. Mori nerf. Deception being only decent perk released in a while. Billy nerf. Tonedown of nurse. Slight pop nerf.
And you're trying to tell me that more nerfs have been made to killer?
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1843492#Comment_1843492
You mean that one 10 months ago? It´s not like killers received nerfs in that time or something...
She still plays just as much these days. Spirit nerfs did nothing to good spirits.
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@SocialDistomancy said:
if it isn't at leasts omewhat balanced around 'deathsquads' then as they become more common and/or population dwindles (which naturally leads to those being more likely to have stuck around versus solo players and them being encountered more frequently) the experience worsens which can lead to imbalance in queues. I briefly tried another 'asymmetrical' game that boasted it wouldn't do this and would balance around potatoes and I incorrectly myself praised it and thought it was a stroke of wisdom from solomon himself until I watched it gradually patch after patch kill that game and run more killers off every patch until I saw the same teams often over and over and it's survivor side queues were past thirty minutes sometimes. That is the worst way to 'balance' this kind of game.
they wound up throwing in a 'mixed' queue that would throw the player to whichever side the game needed to get in a quick match and guess what, you guessed it, people told me almost every time it was the killer side they got so they went back to survivor focus on their queue until they got tired of waiting forever for games and the game went down to almost no players left a couple months or so down the road.
It doesn't matter how many players this game has, the same can happen to it too. That other game was way more fun when it was less imba than this game and I watched it die. I'm sure a much less fun game with much less creative and gameplay potential can die for the same reasons. People get tired of the swats. they're not being paid to entertain them and be sh*t on over and over. Watchin them continue to be given more of an advantage while you watch yourself constantly get nerfed and have to sweat harder and harder you decide the game is ######### and move on to another one sooner or later.
I don't think they shoudl balance for potatoes, rather decent level players not deathsquads because killers have more than enough ways to deal with deathsquads as of currently. Other than that though some decent points.
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Look if you're playing a slugging nurse i don't really think ur in a position to be complaining about people forcing ds on you. At most it's gonna stop you for 15 seconds if you're good with nurse.
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@Callmehandsome said:
Usually when somebody says "we shouldn't balance around high level play" it's coming from a survivor main. This is statement automatically means that we should keep high level survivor overpowered without touching them because of "poor solo survivors"
But this has never happened with killer side. A lot of killer perks and killers itself have been nerfed even statistically they shouldn't have. There are still plenty of ways to weaken SWF survivors without having major if any impact on solo survivors. First perk i would completely nerf is OoO. It literally makes facing SWF survivors 10x worse just by the fun factor. But as a killer fun factor is never mentioned. If you watch any recent tournaments survivor IS the power rule, as they banned stacking several perks together, like 4x DS, (anti tunnel btw)
They've also banned plenty of stuff on killer side in tournamnets as well you know, they do it for balance reasons and to make games funner not because survivor "OP".
I never said we shouldn't balance around high level of play, I said we shouldn't balance for deathsquads, big difference. You can go ahead and tell me that it's not ok to have overpowered surviovr stuff and that's all I care about but how would you go if they started nerfing some of the insanely strong killer stuff?
The point is, this is not a one sided debate. Both sides have balancing issues and both sides have things which need to be sorted out. It would be far more realistic to nerf specific maps/surviovr perks than nerf deathsquads as a whole, and in fact even more better to nerf stuff on both sides at the same time, so that one side isn't able to overpower the other at the strongest level consistently. You nerf deathsquads and what's stopping infectious slugging nurses?
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1843049#Comment_1843049
Oh yes, I've noticed those tournaments where a nurse face camped with NOED in order to get a single kill.
Price pool of 15.000€ really showed which is the power role.
Go look up samantha spirit tournament gameplay and tell me how many times she's had to camp with Noed in order to get a kill. Not even a nurse player.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1843049#Comment_1843049
I don't think 1-2k is a "comeback." That falls into the opposite mentality of "it's not a win unless it's a 4k".
That's a terrible mentality to have though. Can you imagine if survivors had the mentality of it's only a win if it's a 4man out?
And no it's not a comback but considering you're loosing a game and then you end up drawing, seems like a decent result considering the match.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1843037#Comment_1843037
I think the game should be balanced the way every other multiplayer game worth a dang is balanced. And that means doing something about what is generally labeled a "deathsquad."
That' fair, but then people seem to forget that both sides would need balancing if you were to balance for a deathsquad, becasue currently those are the only things stopping the best killers like i said.
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@Raptorrotas said:
If the game is balanced around "noobs" what happens once they decide to be "deathsquads" instead?
Same thing as when killers decide to be sweatlords and 5gen sluggers. Put these two against eachother or if you happen to run into the occasional run, try your best, learn a few things, move on. You can't win them all.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1842295#Comment_1842295
I think we see different tournaments. In the last one i saw, survivors rofl stomped every killer but one.
Must have been the prize money.
Have you not notcied thought that even when survivors stomp killers, they almost always come back with a 1 or 2k regardless? And i've seen countless games where the killer gets everyone at 3-5 gens. All it takes is one survivor mistake and it's game over.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1842382#Comment_1842382
Compared to repairing gens? YES!
Well the game is a 4v1... Makes sense that the single role has more responsabilities and is more stressful, that's the payoff for having more of the game in your control.
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@ZaKzan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1842304#Comment_1842304
No, it wouldn't be removing the skill from the survivors, it would be removing broken game mechanics that are exploited by high skill survivors. When you get the strongest players in the game playing the strongest killers in the game against the strongest survivors in the game, you get 1-2 kill games. See Hexy's tournament. It's also apparent when streamers that have played for thousands of hours just get demolished by a team of survivors.
On equal footing at higher skill levels, survivors destroy killers handedly. The amount of time it takes to catch higher skilled survivors is far beyond what it takes for survivors to complete 5 gens and open the exit gates. It's really not even close. When you get one of the strongest players in the game playing nurse and the fact that even with good luck they can only hope for a 2k, there's a severe problem with game balance at high levels.
There is, on the other hand, quite a disparity between survivors who are unskilled and survivors who are skilled. This is also evidence of how poorly balanced the game is at higher levels. There are very few mid-level survivors, because survivors are bad until the game clicks for them, then they're quite good. The majority of survivors are either very good or very bad at the game.
All of this does make sense because the game is balanced around mid level play where survivors still don't know efficient pathing or looping and killers dominate. Spreadsheets aren't going to show major balance issues at high levels of play, the devs don't play the game at a high level, nor do they take much advice from people who do
So you wanna nerf loops even more? Loops are highly balanced now and fair for both sides there's not much more you can do to them without killing looping. Although i do think some main buildings are a bit busted still and a few loops on the newer maps, other than that maps like macmillain, autohaven, fathercampells, ormand, even some corn maps are where the balance of maps should be sitting at. In hexy's tournament it made sense some killers were only getting 1-2 kills because some of the best surviovr teams in existense were there. No standard killer should be able to beat some of the best survivor teams.
I do agree with you're second point though, and it's somethign that is gonna be really hard to adress in the long run.
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@TAG said:
"If the game was balanced so that majority of killers could decently and consistently beat these teams, then what's actually posing a challenge to you? What's stopping you from just winning everygame?"
Players being better than you, obviously. Balancing around "deathsquads" doesn't mean that facing "deathsquads" are now close to freebies. It means that facing "deathsquads" are now more about the more skilled side winning.
Yes it shoudl be about the more skill side winning, and it mostly is. So many newer or mediocre killers expect to be able to be beating these swfs consistently when it's quite clear they don't have enough experience or skill to do so, even people who try and beat these swfs with extremely casual and memey builds/killers.
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I actually enjoy vsing doctors. Teaches you to loop and flushes out all the immersed blendettes. His counter is learning how to loop rather than hiding.
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@Nosferatu3145 said:
I don't think that balance around these kind of deathsquads is something that must be done, but you shouldn't be absolutely powerless against this kind of SWF packed with all the second chances perks possible.
SWF give too many advantages and no drawback whatsoever, that's what I think they should look into
How would you implement swf drawback tho is a huge problem. What happens to non-coms and casual swf? I woudl rather just see better matchmaking which puts these "deathsquad" swfs against the sweatlord killer counterparts.
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@ZaKzan said:
It's not about making killers stronger, it's about fine tuning the game so that deathsquads aren't as powerful.
There are ways to balance a game without destroying all levels of play. Altering tile efficiency and pathing is one such way, as lower skilled survivors aren't taking advantage of every step they take like higher skilled ones are. A change like this, for example, would better balance high level play and have little to no effect on low level play. Altering the strength of adjacent tiles to already strong tiles is also another such way, as lower skill survivors will just run through and throw pallets, while the higher skill survivors can efficiently loop 3-5 gens on some tile chains.
The changes that can be made require a deep knowledge of the game, as the devs don't play the game to such a level, they need to acquire the knowledge of high level players.
This particular clip is the best example of what I'm talking about. The BASE jumper in TF2 was altered in such a way that reduced its effectiveness in the hands of good players, but bad players weren't using it in that way, so it didn't really effect bad players.
https://youtu.be/X1p42KtZOCw?t=206
"It was causing way too many problems in the hands of someone who could use it to its full potential"
The issue with DBD is that as a killer, you need to be significantly better than the survivor team to have a chance against them. Given equal skill levels (at higher levels of play) survivors mop the floor with killers. This is a problem. The other issue is that this game is so badly designed for high level play that one side usually just snowballs which leads to unfun gameplay for the majority of the match. The vast majority of matches are decided within the first 2-3 minutes of the game, then the rest of the match just becomes dull.
Maybe the strongest swfs should be toned down in ways like this but it sounds like a very dangerous path to take. It'd be very easy to basicalyl remove all the skill from surviovr doing this, makign all teams seem very similar if not the same and making the game quite boring.
Deathsquads aren't that powerful when they are matched up with their sweatlord killer counterparts, slugging nurses, stridor spirits etc. In those cases the games actually become quite balanced.