Withered8
Withered8
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@Blueberry said:
You can balance for high ranks without hurting lower ranks, I don't think it's mutually exclusive.
Also, Ruin/Undying Blight or Infectious Nurse is not even remotely equivalent to death squads. Nurses at the level of actual oppression are extremely, extremely rare. Most nurses just aren't that good. I play significantly more than the average player and I run into one of those nurses like once every few months. To be at a death squad level with mics on you don't even have to be that good, just decently good as the mics and gen efficiency will carry a lot of the game alone. Not even sure why were mentioning ruin/undying blight as there isn't even anything oppressive about that at all, pretty average.
There are things high rank swf squads take advantage of that lower ranks don't that you can use to bring them down a notch.
Have you seen a tournament nurse or spirit? They will destroy 80% of teams, teams which are meant to be the "best" fyi. Sure you can try and balance for high ranks but that also means killing some of the broken stuff on killer side as well, somethign I don't think many killer mains would be onboard with.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1842128#Comment_1842128
So, if killers are OP, how come, that killers have instant lobbies while survivors have to wait 10 minutes in a queue?
Wouldn´t people prefer to play the OP role?
Killers have instant lobbies at night, survivors have instant lobbies in the morning. It is not a representative of which role is stronger, just which role people preffer to play when and who's on at what time. Havn't you noticed alot of killer mains streamers play in the mornign in their respective region and at night people come home from work and want to play with their friends in swfs and have a good time? There's not playing with ur friends as killer.
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@Twisticles said:
I dont know about yall's killer experience, but for me (Rank 1) about 3-4 of every matches I play every survivor in the lobby has either the same skin/name or are friends on each-others profiles which for the most part means probably at least two of them are using comms. Even for the other 6-7 of the ten games almost always the survivors will run a mixture of DS, DH, SB, Unbreakable, BT, PTS ets. The fact that you can watch streams of players like otzdarva (who objectively is one of the best killers in the world) play extremely well and still get gen rushed and lose in 5 minutes is a problem.
On a side note why is balancing for the top 1% wrong? That is literally what every competitive game and esport does. Why would you want to balance around people who have a minimal understanding of the game rather than those who understand the complexities of perk combos, strategies, and have the skill to execute those plays?
If you're gonna balance for the highest level of play in dbd, then theres gonna be a whole lotta things on killer that need to be removed as well you realise? It's not just survivors who have strong stuff.
Otzdarva has literally gone on 50+ winstreaks with some of the worst killers and ur trynna tell me that genrushing and survivor perks are the biggest problem? Watching him will teach you things but there's actually alot of passive things which you will and need ot pick up the more you play the game. Don't expect to beat 4mans when you just start playing a killer or dont have an excessive amount of experience.
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@Aneurysm said:
"And what's the difference between a 4man deathsquad and an infectious slugging nurse or a ruin undying blight?"
Well if MMR comes back and actually works these lot should hopefully face off against each other and spare the rest of us.
That's the intention of MMR, just seems like there's quite alot of difficulties in getting it to work.
Also curious as to whether it would classify 4man slugs as nurse and 1 hooks as a complete domination or rather you end up black pipping and not increasing your rating.
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Spirit's power isn't to phase and catch survivors offguard, but it's to phase and make survivors instantly dc and kill themselves, giving easy wins. :P
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1840376#Comment_1840376
This doesn't work all the time tho, sometimes her hair doesn't bug out (especially with some cosmetics) or her body doesn't freak out. (Also I think bugs aren't good counterplay, and this thing does seem like a bug)
There are also skins you can run which don't have these features
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It's called a dumb tech, replaced window teaching basically since that was removed.
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I literally wouldn't play killer if it wasn't for good teams and swfs. Only thing that is actually a challenge for me to beat these days as killer.
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1838918#Comment_1838918
Well it still has exactly the same concept. If i remember correctly less than 1% of the players have ever reached rank 1 survivor or killer, so majority of the players are inexperienced. Survivors have much harder skill-cap than killers, noob killer will always dominate noob survivors, so it's major reason why kill rates will stay high. If you push kill rates back down to 50% ish it will mean game will be heavily unbalanced for killers, just like in 2016. I waited 45 mins-1 hour with my friends for a game and we didn't find any, because nobody wanted to play killer how unbalanced it was.
If less than 1% of players have made it to rank 1, shouldnt the red rank stats be more accurate? If killer gets harder as you get up ranks then why does the kill rate increase the higher the rank you go?
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@Callmehandsome said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837065#Comment_1837065
Kill rates don't mean anything. I remember back in 2016 when survivors were pretty much gods killers still had over 50% kill rates lmao. But according to the stats survivors never should have been nerfed?
OBVIOUSLY thigns were busted in 2016 dbd and you need to take into account game expereiences BUT stats aren't useless. You still have to take them into account regardless of whether you like them or not. 5 or 10% kill rate leeway is fine but when ur getting killers who are 25% OVER the balanced killrate, it's more than past time to ask questions.
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@darktrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837065#Comment_1837065
Now now...don't you know that stats don't matter if it doesn't fit their narrative?
Oops yea sorry can't believe i would even mention something like that. What a sin.
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@SquirrelKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837351#Comment_1837351
Something I have to point out, killrates are garbage because of survivor entitlement. Every hook suicide inflates these rates.
Imagine a freddy 4k game going like this, freddy downs someone after 3 gens. They fail kobe and kill thenselves on hook, 2 ppl see this and look for freddy to get downed and killed. The 4th person tries to make it to the hatch but fails bevause team throwing and dies. Freddy nownhas a 100% kill rate for 1 game where he may have only gotten 1 because survivors gor so mad he played freddy that they ragwd
It's true suicides definitely would have chagned rates, but not to a big enough extend that it would have caused a 25% increased kill rate. Why?
A) DC penalties have significantly decresed survivors dcing, suicides on hooks often occur when their team is loosing already and probably would have lost either way, if ur winning agaisnt a killer you are far less inclined to kill urself.
B) Killers also dc quite alot too and give up. Think about farming games, killers dcing, afk wraiths, killers running meme builds etc etc, so it goes both ways.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837372#Comment_1837372
You say we should balance around red ranks. Which red ranks? The difference between red rank players is higher then the difference between the weaker red ranks and yellow ranks.
We should really start to ignore rank for now. The devs are not happy with the emblem system, they try do build the new MMR-system for a long time now, and everyone sees the difference in skill in red rank.
So til the MMR is implemented all data depending ranks has many flaws.
The only reason i'm saying red rank stats matter and the others dont is because other ranks are full of people either new to the game, smurfing, deranking etc and is not a good representation of normal games.
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@HowsMars said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837352#Comment_1837352
I Agree that killers shouldn't win 100% of the time, as far as the killing 2 survivors counting as a win for a killer is completely false. In red rank anything under a 3k with a decently paced game is a black pip or less.
To fix that you could re balance the emblem system instead to offer more progression based of that 50% ratio
Two isn't a win and shouldnt be. It's a draw, so makes sense you would black pip, (I've actually had 1ks which are pips). The ranking and emblem system shoudl definitely be looked at as i do think it punishes you in the wrong areas and rewards you in teh wrong areas as killer. IE: Tunneling two people out of the game and getting 6 hooks will reward you more than 2 hooking everyone
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@horrortale_sans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837352#Comment_1837352
nun of it matters its not like this game makes use live longer why complain about it
This game makes survivors live longer?
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@Killing_Time said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837361#Comment_1837361
We've seen his much "power" survivors have. Let's not forget, DC penalty was introduced because MASS suicides on certain killers. (Which eventually lead to nerfs)
Exactly so now that dc penalty is in the game dc's wont be as huge of an influencial factor in win rates.
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@Terro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837351#Comment_1837351
How'd you get 65%? it's 56% including all ranks.
65% is red ranks. Don't try and tell me that you should balance for grey ranks.
On an interesting note however, people always say that killer starts off easy in lower ranks and then gets harder... these stats prove otherwise.
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@Killing_Time said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837339#Comment_1837339
If killers were truly the power role, like some killers (Nurse/Spirit), they wouldn't need to depend on survivors mistakes.
Perfect survivors easily stomp perfect killers. Depip squad and tournaments proved that forever ago.
As far as kill rates, I wouldn't be surprised if these devs considered DC as kills. You also got rage hook suicide to inflate kill rates to get certain killers nerfed. The rabbit hole goes deep.
Most dc's often occur when a survivor is close to death or goign to die anyways so i doubt that would change much, especially considerign a killer dc would count as a 4man out.
Just like survivors can have depip squad and destroy killers, these days killers can go on 150+ win streaks consistnetly. I don't see any 150+ 4man escapes, infact the highest recorded is under 50 i'm pretty sure.
Idk from what i've experience, whenever I loose a game 98% of the time i can rewatch it and clearly pick apart teh mistakes i made which caused the loss, there are the occasional games where you just can't win no matter how perfect you play because of rng, map etc, but the same goes for survivor. A 3 gen agaisnt a nurse/blight or a coal tower 3 gen is a good example, if a killer chooses to defend this, sometimes there's not much you can do, especially if they are a decent killer.
I will agree suicides probably do skew the figures slightly but not even close enough to cause an over 15% swing.
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well then you've got the balance wrong. You want killers to win everygame, and that's not how a fair game works.
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@Terro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837339#Comment_1837339
I think the game is probably fairly close to 50% now. The stats for all ranks including red ranks wasn't too far off. The Mori nerf has probably shifted everything right there. No clue how much it effected red ranks though
65%. That's quite a fair bit over 50%. Closer to 75 than 50. These stats were also done before ruin undying fyi. Mori's may have change it a bit i'll give you that but no more than ruin undyign would have shifted it away from 50.
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@horrortale_sans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837317#Comment_1837317
of corse they have a bigger kill rate thats the point of killing
Devs have stated that to balance this game, a 50% kill rate is the pinicle of balance. Are you sayign that balance should be around killing everyone?
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@Terro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837317#Comment_1837317
So why do they have that killrate?
Because the game is not unbalanced and unfair for killer like it used to be, and killers have obtained their wanted power role.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837315#Comment_1837315
So, being able to jump in a locker, or keep victor on you...both cucking The Twins COMPLETELY of their power...aren't oversights.
Okay, I'm done with you. You're trolling.
Whatever you wish to call it, a buff or fix, they were still IMPROVEMENTS at the end of the day.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837313#Comment_1837313
You're also treading the same dangerous waters be blanketing everything you do based on large scale data.
It's a two way street.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jD2Dk3kPD3s
Now stop. You're not right about this, nor will you ever be.
I could pick apart so many things from that video but here's what i will say.
Yes statistics shouldn't be what balance descisions are based around HOWEVER at some point you do need to look at them as they do mean something and refelct alot more about the game than people realise. Although nurse has the lowest kill rate, it's still over 50% so technically if good and bad nurses combined can get a kill rate of that, then i don't see how anyone could every think she needs a buff regardless of how strong we all know good nurses can be, so that's not a valid argument.
When is the cut off point, where do you draw the line? If 75% killrate is fine, then what about 80, what about 90, what happens when you approach 100. Is that balanced?
What happens if a killer has a 25% kill rate. Are you sayign that that would be completely ignored and shrugged off as skewed data?
Also just because Scott Jund said somethign doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong and that my point doesn't matter.
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Right so even though killers at red ranks have a 65%+ kill/win rate, they are not the power role?
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837292#Comment_1837292
Because both of those things were CLEAR oversights. The fact that lockers hard countered The Twins with zero way around it, as well as the fact that survivors could LITERALLY keep Victor forever, and cuck the killer of their power - adjusting those is called "fixing", not "buffing".
Buffing would be adding to something that was underpowered. Those two changes were straight up broken, not just underpowered.
How do you draw the line of Clear oversights? Because as far as i saw it it wasn't broken, just extremely weak and annoying.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837302#Comment_1837302
Except, blanket defining something this specific BASED on LARGE DATA collecting has way too many flaws to be taken seriously.
Ur treading some very dangerous waters in terms of game balacne when you start ignoring win percentages, especially when some killers are pushing 25% above the balanced win rate. Are you trying to say that 25% of wins do not count and are accumulative of skewed matches?
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837065#Comment_1837065
You know, that's a lot like how Ethan said "OoO isn't a problem because we have data, and our data is the most data data in the history of all data that has ever been data'd".
That's not how it works. Killers have a high kill rate because the quality of survivor over the last couple of years has plummeted. Most survivors are trash now, and ranking up is far too easy.
Put a group of 4 skilled survivors, even solos, against an equally skilled killer? They have the upper hand. Does that mean they will win? No, but they DO have the upper hand. Literally every DBD tournament that has ever taken place proves this outright.
Stats mean ALOT more than people think, and so many just glance over them as if they mean nothign in this game. If stats are showing OoO isn't a problem, then that HAS to be taken into consideration, you can't just ignore statistics which show how successful the perks/characters etc are. Sure OoO can be problematic especially against prep killers when in 4man and something should be done to adress this, but it is clearly far less of a problem than people make it out to be and compared to other thigns in this game. If a perk in a swf is popping up once in 50 games and makes the game a challenge, what does it matter? You don't need to win every game and it's good to throw in a very hard game every noun then, especialyl consdering the amoutn of killers who sweat like there's no tomorrow against solo lobbies and chill survivors.
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@DBD_Pinhead said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837065#Comment_1837065
What platform for that stat? PC? And with what killers because that's not across the board and account for all ranks levels, which is broken and red ranks is meaningless when you have zero rewards for something that resets monthly. The only people who think this game is not survivor sided are unsurprisingly, survivors themselves.
Red Ranks across platforms. Here's my argument though, how can you so easily just say ahh this killer needs a buff when countless statistics would prove otherwise? Sure I understand some killers need buffs, but where do you draw the line in which statistics tell you "kill rates are getting abnormally high now something needs to be done", because I don't see how one side having a 65% win rate could be passed as balanced, and I doubt it would be in any other game.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837273#Comment_1837273
No, buffs count as anything after release. Anything that was discovered and announced during the beta test is not a buff, it's a fix.
How is it a fix? Quite clearly the locker changes and the ability to recall were buffs. I've never heard anyone call a change from ptb a "fix".
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837263#Comment_1837263
"numerous buffs" - before they were released; and those that came out AFTER release were announced PRIOR to release.
Based on PTB feedback.
It still counts as buffs. There was also the decreased recall cooldown from 45-30 seconds which was done out of the blue.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837252#Comment_1837252
If they don't want to run the counter, that clearly exists, they don't get to complain. BESIDES, if things like ruin/undying are as common as survivors would have you believe, running the counter regularly should make sense...unless...that's right, they just want to keep running their FAR MORE broken crutch combos. The point is, survivors don't get to complain about stale gameplay. Not when they absolutely refuse to run anything other than their busted meta. Period, end of story.
When it comes to the Twins, no, they don't need to be nerfed. We're not even a month into their lifespan in DBD. Take time, learn to go against them instead of whining about how you hate them. People like you whined that Wraith was OP when he came out too. Then people found out, months later, how to counterplay him. People whining this soon for a nerf are the reason Freddy got the overtuned buff that he did.
If we need to be taking more time to see counters and how they are played, then why have there already been numerous buffs to them, yet as soon as someone mentions a nerf it's like they've commited a sin? Oh no imagine suggesting a reasonable nerf to a killer who is already decently strong?
Look once again i agree the survivor meta sucks, and as a result i've stopped runnign exhaustion/ds and unbreakable and tried using different perks and builds, but at the end of they day what other good alternatives are there to run if you're tryign to win/do well? All of survivor's new perks are either memey, require throwing the game to work or extremely inconsistent. Take repressed alliance. That can either potentially block a pop or two or do nothing and actually sandbag ur teammates trying to do the gen (which is what happens more often than not. Deception (One of the few decent perks released recently) Once again is situational. It could help you and buy time in certain occasions, but often it will do nothing as the killer will just see where you are going. See why in competetive or high level games would you want to run perks that more likely than not will do nothing? Killer's newer perks on the otherhand almost always do at least SOMETHING and often provide far larger benefits. Pop will always do something if ur able to get a hook (which you should be able to i don't see why you wouldn't), ruin undying, even if it goes down in the first minute, would have stalled the game tremendously at the start more than people often realise. Opression will always do stuff if ur able to kick a gen. Surge will always do stuff if ur able to get downs etc etc.
Survivors will change up their meta once they are given consistent, reliable and decent perks. A great example of a balanced survivor meta perk is iron will. Give more perks like those.
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837239#Comment_1837239
There are PLENTY of good survivor perks, survivors are just allergic to any build that doesn't contain Exhaustion/DS/UB
@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837239#Comment_1837239
There have been good perks released. They just straight up refuse to run them. For example, the second ruin/undying came out, Distortion, off The Record, Detectives Hunch and Small Game ALL became INVALUABLE perks.
No-one wants to ruin perks just to counter one potential killer build. That's exactly what a boring meta is. Why do you thing enduring was changed so it didn't affect ds and ds was changed at the same time? Because you used to have to run enduring to get through old ds.
If ur trying to tell me that totem perks and immersion perks are good...
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@CosmicParagon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837229#Comment_1837229
And going against ANOTHER M1 killer won't get stale?
More exciting than vsing somethign that takes less time to down you than walk over to you and pick you up.
And seriously how many TRULY m1 killers are there these days?
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
I mean, if you want to have the "stale gameplay" conversation...
*glances over at the survivor meta which hasn't changed in 4+ years*
It's not survivors fault that there havn't been any meta or good/consistent perks releasd in a while. Killers on the other hand are constantly getting good perk additions to the meta.
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@VexTheHex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837229#Comment_1837229
Nah, it means Victors will only leap when biting your ankle and you'll see less skillful long range pounces. I love landing longer ranged pounces, but they are riskier since you can be smushed for failing. Punishing the Victor for not being a ankle biter will be a mistake.
Who actually goes for long range pounces consistently though? If ur playing to win/playing safe you would almost always go for short range. As much as i respect long range pounces, its far safer and easier to go for shorter pounces and its what 95% of pounces end up being. His design already pushes you away from doing long range pounces, somethign i don't think can be fixed unless they make him slower.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837221#Comment_1837221
So basically, you want The Twins to be worthless as a killer. Cause with a cooldown that long, for a killer with no other ability, would make them useless.
Twins haven't even been out a month yet. People whined about WRAITH being OP for the first 2 months he was out, too. Perhaps, maybe, JUST maybe, we should wait, and give everyone the opportunity to adapt.
No? I just want players to be punished for missusing Victor. I hate that every twins player just constantly pulls him out, it becomes really stale gameplay when all that is happening is victor is released, comes after you with a 5 second chase, rinse and repeat.
It literally woudlnt affect you if you were able to hit all ur pounces, if you miss all ur pounces then it'll help you to get better rather than just re-releasing him six seconds later even if you are clearly outplayed by the survivor.
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@Pig_Is_Pog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837211#Comment_1837211
i think there should be 2 different cooldown.
victor can be kicked for both missing and landing. i believe missing an attack but getting kicked should be a 10 second cooldown and landing but getting kicked should be 5 seconds.
Even 10 seconds wouldn't do much though. she's just gonna walk after you for an extra 4 seconds until victor comes back. I would argue it needs to be 20-30 seconds.
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Yea there definitely needs to be a longer cooldown/punishment if victor is killed rather than just 6 seconds, which is ridicuously fast. Funny how everyone was eager to shorten the recall time but nothing about this punishment time.
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@pleasedontbetoxic117 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837096#Comment_1837096
So you're argument is if only a handful can play her so what "decent" then anyone can play her? That is a fallacy to the point of ignorance and exaggerated arrogance. That is the same thinking that ruins games.
No not anyone should be able to play her well, only good people who invest time into her to learn her. That's her tradeoff. Hard to learn but an incredeibly rewarding power. Sure go and advocate for her power to be easier to use like 80% of other killers in this game but shes' gonna need some heavy nerfs if you make her noob friendly.
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@pleasedontbetoxic117 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1837075#Comment_1837075
Every time I face off a Nurse in the Red Ranks or any rank in general she can't even get a kill. So I don't understand why nerfed her to the ground when all she need was addon rework like Bubba and Billy. Billy's change was not need again except for addons.
Go watch a tournament nurse game and tell me if you still think she's weak.
There are quite a few nurses out there who will skew her balance because they don't know how to play her but once you learn her, it's a completely different story.
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Because either she's weak on console and balanced on PC or she's decent on console and broken as hell on PC. Makes sense that PC game health always takes priority, especially considering that's where tournaments are run and majority of the playerbase are.
Also nurse is still playable on console, it's just really hard. I have still seen a few decent console nurses since the change, so it's still possible to be good with her.
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I havn't run gen regression on almost half of my killers in a while and agree i definitely enjoy it. Detection perks are definitely alot more fun, along with chase perks, allowing you to have more and exciting chases. Undying Retribution is definitely one of my favourite combos to run atm, giving lots of imformation and actually applying alot more pressure than people think.
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@DBD_Pinhead said:
Tunneling isn't banned. It's needed because the game is too survivor sided. The devs handicap killers and they use the sub par tools available to them but it's too much for the poor, defenseless survs with comms and second chance perks. Bad enough they cry for mori nerfs, yet enjoy gamebreaking keys, but wonder why killers play "unfun"...
A game where one side has a kill/win rate of over 65% at red ranks yet somehow the other side is too op? The game is not survivor sided anymore and if you believe that now then you will always believe that until you are getting 100% kill rates.
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@Boss said:
Sure, mindless complaining isn't great.
But saying it's fine just because many nerfs happened isn't something i agree to either.
Not related to the subject you presented, but if there's an issue making one side incredibly powerful, you can't just say that a lot of nerfs happened and therefore this is fine.
If some Killers get hit with 10 total small nerfs in the next patch, will that grant them a "New OP mechanic" pass for the patch after that?
Do killers even need more buffs in general though? That's the problem. Considering the average red rank kill rate of almost 3, I feel like its very reasonable to say that survivors are worse off in teh game now. Sure there are still problems on killer's side which i think need to be adressed but when you start sayign stuff like killers arent strong enough and survivors are the power role when statistics say otherwise, you've got a situation where killer is becoming the once OP role survivor was.
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@Kees_T said:
Yes it should.
As a weaker version. DS effect is permanent, but, If one of these conditions are met:
- The Killer hooked another Survivor
- If your healing bar reached 50%
- You total time on a generator exceeded 10 seconds
- End-game collapse begins
The DS effect will be removed immediately.
With those conditions, it's real effect will be only to prevent Killer from chasing the same guy, and it can't be abused. Since only 1 survivor can have this effect, he will be forced to chase other Survivors, or if the Killer really wants to chase the guy with the DS, the survivor will have the chance to loop the Killer for what amount of time he can, and then DS him.
Why should killers have free rein over tunneling in endgame though? They've already played badly enough that they've gotten to that state at the end of the game so why should they be rewarded for not doing a good job?
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@OtterBelief said:
I play both killer and survivor, red ranks with both, though am a much better killer if I’m honest. Though it is clear for anyone to see, who isn’t biased, that this game is survivor sided. It makes sense, as it makes the majority of the player base.
Killers actually are punished for doing their objective vs a direct comparison with the survivor.
If a survivor plays the objective well, the get an escape, no extra impediments outside the actual game loop (design).
However, if a killer plays the objective well, kills survivors efficiently and quickly, the last survivor gets a shot at a get out of jail for free card (The hatch) regardless if they played well, or not.
The hatch, is RNG based. So I can agree, it is fair in that sense. However, survivors, have multiple ways to aura read the hatch (maps, perks).
Then if the killer does close the hatch, it activates any end game perks for the survivors (adrenaline etc). Then the exit gates are RNG based, which can is another luck based approach to solve a match. However, depending on the gates spawns & in most cases they are so far apart form each other, only few of the mobile killers can actually pressure them both. (Maps are too big, or mind anyone?)
So, only speaking from an objective point of view, any purist would agree, it is objectively unbalanced to favour the side of survivors.
Have you heard of a depping squad? You realise if you rush gens and get out earlier you will also be punished right?
Survivors having a shot at hatch is the same as downing someone in endgame and basically getting the free kill because of endgame and staying at the hook.
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@arcnkd said:
All of the penalties you listed aren't the actual penalties. The ACTUAL penalties that make playing "your objective" laughable is the fact that Behavior insists on punishing you for completing that objective. Killers have to "give Survivors a chance" and are punished for not "making their gameplay fun enough" -- emblem points drain for standing too close to their hooked victim to lock in their kill; not chasing survivors enough... while Survivors are punished in terms of their bp gains by not 'engaging' the killer enough.
This all stems from the broken mentality that many players have for wanting a #########-all backwards game where Survivors aren't focused on stealth and escape; and killers aren't focused on kills - but instead everyone is just playing "chase me, chase me!" and no one has to worry about tension or anxiety. "But holding M1 constantly to do gens each match is boring" - then play a different ass game? You're a survivor trying to survive... that is your goal. If you don't want to play that goal, then play killer or play something else. No one ever wants to suggest something like "add complexity" to generator repairs so Survivors have something to focus/work on while they are repairing (instead of just camera rotating and then running away if the killer is approaching). Things like front-locked cameras; more active and varied skill checks; secondary buttons to hit, etc.
But none of your listed penalties are the reason killers are 'punished'.
Do you want to be playing games where the gens are done in 5 minutes or games where everyone dies on first hook? No becaues it's not exciting and boring as hell. The objective of the game is actualyl to please the entity, and short/boring games do NOT please the entity.
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Ur agument is exactly the same as if a survivor said why are we discouraged from doing gens and listed gen regresison, slowdown perks, killer powers etc.
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@ineedsleep said:
I’ve been having very poop matches recently, and it’s been making me think that this game is slowly becoming survivor sided and the devs are essentially turning a blind eye on killers.
- Perks. Yes, there are killer perks that are very good, but most of them have counters. Hex:Ruin, Barbecue and Chili, Thrilling Tremors and NOED all have counters. Let’s have a look at survivor perks that can’t be countered: adrenaline, sprint burst, lithe and don’t get me started on object of obsession. The devs have turned a MASSIVE blind eye on object. People who say “Oh you’re just bad learn how to counter them” are the same people that bring unbreakable and decisive.
- Map design. A good majority of maps are heavily survivor sided, including Hawkins, Lery’s , Red Forest and Haddonfield. Most killers get countered by maps like these. I understamd the devs have been attempting to add balance to certain maps such as Macmillan and Autohaven but that isn’t making up for the pure amount of unbalance in other maps.
- Gen speeds. Do I even need to go over how quick gen speeds are? And with addons gens can get done in a matter of seconds if everyone is working on one. 45 seconds for 2 people. 2. That is a ridiculously quick time considering that’s cutting 35 seconds without that extra person. They need a nerf, or else they are trying to encourage people to start bringing ruin, but wouldn’t you know! Your totems get done within 30 seconds of the map starting. That leads me into my next point.
- Totem spawns. The amount of times I bring ruin undying and undying goes within 1 minute. 30 seconds later, and there goes ruin. Totems are way too obvious and need better spots other than just smacking them in the middle of the map where everyone can see it. At least make it so that survivors kind find totems until after the first minute of the match.
- The killers them self. Bhvr have added killers that have very weak map pressure or abilities that are useless, turning killers into a laughing stock. The devs release a killer then ignore them, leaving them to eventually become a meaningless killer with no good perks, or one good perk and two completely awful perks with no use at all. Compare that to survivors with actually all viable perks that can be used including Meg and even Fen Ming. Killers need some love!
So to all you killers, what do you think?
Hawkins, lerys and temple are survivor sided......
Every other survivor sided map you listed is gonna be reworked soon anyways.