Withered8
Withered8
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@NursesBootie said:
For solos it's pretty oppressive, especially if you're not a veteran.
SWF is the balancing flaw again right here i guess.
I can somewhat agree with that.
I just think that there's better ways of dealign with gen speeds than adding one build which completely counteracts survivors doing gens at a fast rate.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685518#Comment_1685518
Because that recently unhooked person has a tricked out toolbox or a key?
Because they are bodyblocking me constantly?
Because they ran directly into me, or I caught them healing?
There is a reason that DS is the subject of so many complaints. It's so damn abusable that even if a survivor doesn't have it, you have to play as if they did.
Quite a few killers actually don't even really need to worry about ds because they can just down them in 5 seconds afterwards,
I don't want to go further into the ds discussion cause it gets nowhere. If you want to make another threat about it.
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@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685485#Comment_1685485
You're also thinking like you're in 1v1 game. Even if you are on solo q, it's not like you don't have teammates.
While you're Cleansing totems, at least one guy is doing generator, if someone's being chased then do Generator or Bones. Dont think you're along in the map with the Killer.
If the killer has half a brain they will be able to down people and rotate faster than your teammates can individually do gens.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685472#Comment_1685472
This. I run Detectives just because I enjoy it most of the time, but since this combo has come about, it feels fantastic knowing I can deny said combo.
By the time you've denied it the killer should have already begun to snowball unless they are seriously struggling with downs.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685487#Comment_1685487
DS, in and of itself, isn't gamebreaking. It's how it interacts with stuff like lockers and other perks.
Spinechill and OoO are far more oppressive in SWF groups anyway.
Also - the second I see 'as a killer main' I picture Elmer Fudd in a bunny costume.
The only problem i see with spinechill is that sometimes it can make games boring as killer because people just hide all the time and you spend most of the game looking for people, which is a boring playstyle. And as for OoO, it's far less useful for swfs now because people have learned how to communicate etc, so as long as one swf member knows where the killer is at all times, there's no use for OoO.
Ok look maybe ds unbreakable combo's do need a change, but the arguments people use for it are extremely dumb. Yes they can jump in lockers and stuff but why are you going for a recently unhooked person anyways unless you rlly need to tunnel someone out of the game, in which case taking a potential ds is the price to pay.
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@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685485#Comment_1685485
Bruh, have you seen forums? One of the biggest and oldest complaint here is that generally Generators pops too fast.
By having Ruin and Undying in a trial, Survivors are now forced to have a secondary objective (that was ignored most of the time.) that will slow gen progression.
It's not like doing 5 totems are bad. You remove NOED coming into play, counter all Hex perks and given points because of it.
It slows gen progression so much that solo survivors have no chance against a good killer.
Killers were winning games perfectly fine before.
The most annoying part i find about it is that when a killer beats you you can't tell these days whether it was because they were generally good or because they had ruin undying.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/198451/ruin-undying-change
No. There are ways to counter it. The killer is subject to a fair amount of luck, even if only 1 surv is casually cleansing.
Frankly, right now - there is a lot of stuff on the survivor side of things that need to be brought back in-line before the devs even glance at killer perks. Highly abusable stuff like OoO, Spinechill, DS etc. that has literally no counterplay that won't get you cussed out in post-game.
Ummm spine chill abusable? That's a new one.
OoO has been falling out of the meta for a long time, when was the last time you came across a full OoO swf?
I don't have a problem with 99% of other killer perks but this build makes almost every other killer build look like trash. You know there's a problem when one build is 1000 times stronger than any other.
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@Ace_Ventura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685483#Comment_1685483
This. Killers have been dealing with DS/Unbreakable/OoO etc etc for YEARS.
Barely a months has gone by since they've finally had an actual super strong combo (that has counters, unlike it's survivor counterparts) and people already want it nerfed.
Because it's not like there are plenty of other strong kliler perk combos out there right? I'm literally a killer main and i've been through with people so many times how ds unbreakable is avoidable 99% of the time.
Even if DS unbreakable is "game breaking" etc, that's it. There's nothing else like it for survivors. Killers have a much larger variety to choose from.
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@D3spair said:
Or Cleanse 5 totems as a secondary objective as Survivor like the devs intended.
You can replace perks like Decisive Strike ,Unbreakable ,Borrowed Time ,Dead Hard or Sprint Burst or any other meta surv perk with Small game and Detective's Hunch. You can also bring a map if you want 4 meta perks to stay that much
So your solution is force everyone off of the origional survivor meta perks and make them all use detectives and small game. Sounds like a pretty unqiue and totally original build to me.
Also you know how much time you have to waste to cleanse five totems? The time it takes for survivors to get almost two gens done. And that's assuming u find all the totems straight away, the killer doesn't interupt you and ur in a co-ordinated swf.
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@D3spair said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1685340#Comment_1685340
I just want to discuss how unfun it is to get SWFs like these. Not argue about Ruin+Tinkerer+Undying on how sweaty it is? Like I can't even counter Object of Obsession normally while you can just go find all five Totems to counter Ruin and Undying.
Well i find ruin undying tinkerer extremely fun so should we have a threat about removing sweaty builds and killers like this?
The point is that killers can sweat it up just as hard and whats wrong with a team who gets cocky and runs in your face. Far better than vsing people who hide or game and hold the m1 button.
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@UMCorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683876#Comment_1683876
You said, "if you've hooked multiple people, you're in a fine position to hit a DS"... I just pointed out one instance where I have and I'm not in a good position to eat a DS, and you're kinda like: "Well play better (4 hooks in 5 minutes isn't ideal, but it's not like that's bad... hell I can go 2 minutes without even finding someone if I'm unlucky) and run meta perks."
Not entirely helpful.
The bottom line is, this meta isn't fun. Survivors only run second chance perks because why wouldn't they - they make a killer need to basically win the game twice in order to win. Meanwhile, Killers have no choice but to run gen regression perks and pray... otherwise, they have little to no chance of winning.
Actually survivors running second chance perks like this is more of a protection and measure for when killers start playing scummy themselves. Can you imagine the game without bt and face camping killers? Or tunneling killers without Ds? It would just encourage people to play that way. Yes sometimes they might hurt you out of those situations as killer but at the end of the day it’s a small price to pay for balance against scummy killers.
And if you don’t play scummy and know how to avoid these perks then hardly ever will you run into them. I feel like it’s only fair that killers have to play around a couple of survivor perks when survivors have to play around so many killer perks.
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@UMCorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1683409#Comment_1683409
What about being on 1 gen, having only hooked 4 (one guy twice) leads you to believe I'm in a good enough position to eat a DS?
BTW: I'm not running meta perks because Survivors don't like those, so no Gen Regression. We're about 5 minutes into the match, 4 gens down, yall working on the last one because this game is fine.
I can't judge unless i know ur killer and the map and the circumstances.
But from what it seems, if you were vsing good survivors, then it makes sense that it would be alot harder to win ESPECIALLY without gen regressions. You know the universal pop, discordance, bbq and corrupt build? That is more than enough to give you the ability to win against almost any team. Can you imagine if you could consistently beat very good teams with bad builds and killers? What it would mean for every other part of the game?
People choose to focus on changing game balance, rather than rewatching their gameplay and looking for ways they could improve. You would be suprised the effects it has on ur ability to win games.
Also 4 hooks in 5 minutes isn't exactly an ideal hook to time ratio.
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@UMCorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1682812#Comment_1682812
Would love to, but for some reason, survivors with DS/BT never seem to want to leave me alone...
And considering how long DS lasts for, I can chase 2 people, bonk a gen, go AFK for a bathroom break, come back, see you teabagging me, down you, pick you up and STILL eat it.
Leave them on the floor if you think they have ds, wastes plenty of time even if they have unberakable.
If you're running into ds after hooking multiple other people, then clearly you were in a good enough position that game to be eating a ds with no problem.
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@GrimmReaper said:
So basically OP is upset that he didn't get outplayed...he got outperked. And fair enough because that's straight BS. Not exactly fun having an experienced player struggle not because the opponents are good but because they brought powerful perks. Dare I say this game needs a perk overhaul? After all they're supposed to be accents to playstyles but in this game one could argue they do a bit too much.
How could the survivors have possibly outplayed the killer in that scenario though?
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@UMCorian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1678912#Comment_1678912
No one's crying the perks are OP. They are just unfun to play against.
I love having to wait 15 seconds to smack the person with BT who is piggy-back riding their savior, preventing me from not tunneling them.
I love having to then wait 45 more seconds in order to pick them up. Though lets be honest, they'll stand up on their own by then because this meta sucks and if you're running DS, you're absolutely running UB because every Survivor runs those 2 perks + BT + either DH/SB/BL or Adrenaline/SC/Soul Guard.
I love watching someone who was just hooked run into a locker... then start singing the Mario Invincible Star music for a minute or until I leave them alone.
You can still win a match and give a 1 out of 5 for "did you have fun". In fact, it should even be so noteworthy that even actually winning the match didn't make up for how much ass it is to play against.
You know how to have a more enjoyable experience than that? Go for someone else.
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@nam said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1679023#Comment_1679023
And, your points seems reasonable, but, the thing is, when we talking about the strenth of a killer, we need to mention this killer's core perks.
Bubba with Bamboozle and Bubba without Bamboozle is totally two different killer. If we delete Bamboozle now, Bubba would become a trash killer instantly. So does undying+ruin to all the killer are good at mutiple injury but have low mobility, like huntress, deathslinger and hag, cause they need perks to help delay gens. So does BBQ to nurse and spirit, they need to find the next target quickly instead of patrol.
If you NEED ruin and undying to win then that's a you problem. I play huntress with no gen slowdown whatsoever, just perks like bbq and iron maiden and i have no trouble winning majority of games. I also have a blast going for coolshots with her, regardless of the gamer result.
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@SquirrelKnight said:
I see a lot of people talking about his record saying he won so who cares. The problem isnt balance in this case the problem is feel. This guy is amazing, far better than I am at least, he just hates the feel of some of these perks. Thats really what the issue is, the perks are designed, intentionally or not, to rob the killer of the situation. They are DESIGNED to take away the advantage of playing well and give the advantage to the survivors
Sounds like plenty of killer's and their perks to me. NOED to start.
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DBD isn't dying though, infact the stats show otherwise. Since the ruin change, playerbase numbers have skyrocketed and the large maps and infinte change largely increased the amount of killers and actually for once in a while brought back some older players. Yes people do leave but this is mostly veteran players who get sick of the game. There are far more people who join the game than leave at this point.
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@dollidahlia said:
Torn bookmark:
Adds 1 blink charge
Blinks are restricted to locations in the nurses line of sight
This is a terrible addon to have in a indoor map. Not to mention having 3 blinks wont really do much
The other pink addon i can't think of:
Removes 1 blink charge
Increases the nurse's movement speed to 4.2 m/s
Whats the point? Lets make nurse an M1 Killer??? They need to be reworked
The thing is nurse is already the strongest killer in the game, so having strong addons would make her just too strong. Look how her original addons turned out eh. Plus they do their job in changing the killers play style, which is what all pink addon should do, not just downright Buff the killer.
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@ToxicMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1682202#Comment_1682202
Easy fix for swf to use
Hey dude is any of you near the hook doing a gen?
No 3x
Ok then its the killer
They can ask each other what they are doing to easily pick the killer apart from their teammates
Idk i feel like if they some how make it fast pasted then it could be benefitial for good killers who know how to change at appropriate times and trick survivors. Don't think it will ever be as simple as change into another survivor and just walk up to them though.
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Seems alright, although i would rather see a duration increase for feral frenzy than a decreased cooldown. This would help him to injure survivors more consistently and easily, which is what i see him as, rather than a killer who can cancle their power fast and down quickly.
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Guys I think i've come up with a solution against swf for this character.
What if everytime he used his ability everyone on the map would change to the same character with the same cosmetics for everyone and the killer would change into that too. Yes swf could organise themselves and work out the fake one but there would be incredible amounts of scrambling and frantic communication to work it out, and chances are he would be able to come up to you and get a hit by then.
Thoughts?
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Personally i find any of the original maps the best to play on as killer (even farm maps, with the exeption of rotten fields) becuase most of these work for almost any killer and alot of the loops can be mindgamed. Alot of newer maps yes they have shorter loops but they have really annoying pallets and windows which waste so much time, like the dead dawg saloon windows and the god pallets in midwhich. Some other good maps i find include father campels chapel, new temple of purgification and swamp.
But to answer your question, i find i get maps i want and good ones about as often as i get maps which i don't want and are bad.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680511#Comment_1680511
In those cases she still has an actual chance to get the hit. Again you’re relying on the Nurse to make the wrong move.
Nurse has far less counterplay than Spirit - a killer who is physically stopped by pallets and walls but in their anger people don’t realize this.
I disagree though. You can see what a nurse is going to do. You have no idea what a spirit is going to do on the other hand. A complete guess which basically means that a bad spirit can get you just as much as a good spirit. Yea you can do things which "delay her" but you will still go down. If you use the argument that it's about making the nurse to make the wrong move couldn't you use that for literally every other killer in the game? The difference with nurse and deathsligner is that there is no right or wrong move. There's only lucky or unlucky.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1680590#Comment_1680590
I am not saying that SWF comms don't make a difference...but SWF comms does not define nor dictate your skill level. I am saying that people on these forums want to pigeonhole every match 'strat' used on them as "It's SWF so therefore my skill didn't matter" When there was no skill to begin with.
Why do I say this? Because there are people who will use every little move a survivor does (Taking hits, Flashlight Saves, Sabo'ing hooks, Trading hooks, etc etc) as THEY MUST BE SURVIVE WITH FRIENDS! When it simply isn't and they are just players who know the game and how it works.
You can keep saying it's not fun, it doesn't mean it is as broken as you claim it is. Like I said you are really underestimating good players (not the ones who crouch all the time, not the ones who are scared little chickens when going for a save, not the ones who don't know how to look behind them).
Just because your friend knows the killer is on them doesn't mean they aren't able to sandbag. Doesn't mean they aren't capable of losing the killer and not knowing where they went. You are assuming that that one survivor being chased knows EVERYTHING that killer is going to do. Which is not true.
The reason many people play in SWF is not because there is this gigantic advantage. It is #1 To play with their friends #2 Because they are reliable people. I play with my friends without comms sometimes and we do just as fine. We understand how the game works. I also play killer in red ranks and against swf teams... and it is fun for me.
You don't have to take my word for it though. Many killers out there are doing just as fine, and don't have a problem with swf teams.
Can second that. I honestly would rather vs a stacked swf at this point than baby survivors, find it an absolute snooze fest when the survivors don't know how to play.
Yes you might not win every game against a swf but does it matter? Not only is it an achievable, hard and fun challenge, but it helps you get so much better at the game. I have beaten plenty of good teams with no addons pig, legion, clown and killers like that. Obviously i don't have a 100% win rate but i win more than enough games to realse that often when i loose its because ive messed up or been outplayed.
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@CJCA915 said:
I find myself doing rather well as a killer, but I main Freddy, easily one of the best map control killers, imo.
I run with Brutal, BBQ, Pop, and Corrupt. Usually using Swing Chains and Paint Thinner as add-ons. Very few matches end with all gens being done, and at most a single hatch escape.
Yea i mean that's freddy in a nutshell
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@ClickyClicky said:
She is the strongest killer and regardless of what people say - THIS is the killer without counter play. Running back and forth and weaving about, all you're doing is trying to make the other play miss, it's their mistake to make.
That said seeing a top level nurse is extremely rare and that's why people don't complain. Nurse herself is rare let along a really good one, meanwhile people will face Spirits and deathslingers all day long and so that's why they tend to receive all of the complaints.
Trust me if every DBD killer started playing and practicing only nurse then in a few weeks survivors would be begging to have spirit and deathslinger back. Especially a slugging nurse.
This is not true at all. I used to main nurse even before she was nerfed and there was still counterplay as well. Yes you can just weave mindlessly through places but that won't get you too far agaisnt a good nurse. It's all about taking the unexpected option. For example, you dip behind a wall and the nurse will either corner blink or blink along the wall to where she thinks you would have gone, but then you take the third option and keep running foward.
People also don't realise that pallets can actually be quite effectve against a nurse, not only scaring her but making her blink in predictable pathing.
ALSO you can react to a nurse holding their blink for longer and play accordingly. With spirit and deathsligner there's no reacting.
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1679328#Comment_1679328
I don't even think he's fun. I'd rather play huntress or hag any day.
That's fair i guess but i know alot of people personally enjoy him alot. I find him a great and chill killer to play after sweating it up with blight or billy previously.
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@Squirrel_Thicc said:
I regret buying clown SO BAD.
hes fun though you gotta admit. At the end of the day it comes down to how muxh fun you're having. Same with legion. I dont think hes good but hes really fun to play and a great pickup for casual and new players.
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@Maelstrom10 said:
Demo at the moment, is very much an analog to freddy, much like billy is to hillbilly - However demogoron has several drawbacks and shortcomings that nerf his capabilities to be a good killer, and make it easier for him to be beaten by top tier survivors.
His similarities to freddy and how they differ -
Freddy and demo both have forms of stealth, freddy with his lullaby and dissapearing upon a survivor being awake and outside of a certain range, whereas demogorgon has the undetectable status effect upon going through a portal. both are unique enough forms of stealth that can feel fun, however the demogorons stealth is ruined by both his height and his gigantic footstep sounds.
Freddy and demo both teleport, with freddy being restricted to generators that haven't been completed, and demo being restricted to portals. The two biggest drawbacks behind demos teleport are that he cannot do it from anywhere (he has to go to another connecting portal) and that he announces it globally, making it so that even though he gains stealth from it, players are tipped off very early to his teleporting.
Freddy and demo both have an anti-loop tool built into their kit. Demogorgons shred, vs freddys snares (or false pallets.) Both of these are very good and unique enough in what they do, however shred has currently got weird addon synergy, and no real addons that change it up, whereas freddy has addons that affect his secondary chase ability and what it does making every match different.
How to bridge the gap between freddy and demogorgon, and make demogoron not neccissarily buffed so much as easier to make useage of and more viable with all of his addons?
- Upon teleporting, the global indicator is only active for people next to a portal, or within the demogorgons terror radius. similar to freddys teleport where you have to be able to see a gen, or will hear his whistling when your near him.
- Have demogorgons footsteps silenced, or lowered when he is undetectable. (could also be done to 99% of the killer cast if im being honest, as it seems like a nice buff to undetectable, but demo currently needs it most.) he could also have an animation change for when he is undetectable, having his head lowered more towards the ground in a prowling state, in order to make him not as visible over objects, and also to indicate he's entered stealth.
- Demo's shred could have more addons attached to it, altering range, charge time and giving it the possibility of a "charges mechanic" where if he has addons, he could shred instantly after another shred, in another direction giving him a giant skillcap to using his shred. also take away rat livers speed boost, and have it on his base kit, or make his basekit more functional without the requirement for rat liver.
- And finally the biggest buff besides just reworking his addons to be better and more functional. allow him to teleport to any preset portal from anywhere. this could go inline to his other changes, or be in addition to them. Teleporting from anywhere could even have downsides over teleporting from a portal to balance it out (ie teleporting from anywhere could have no undetectable status effect, or a very short one, whereas using a dedicated portal setup could give him a longer undetectable and silent footsteps.) teleporting from anywhere could also put him on a longer cooldown in comparison to using a portal to teleport to another portal.
I like most of these ideas but I’ve been consistently advocating against too many demo lunge addons. They could very easily break him and make him like pyramid head and his lunge is already plenty strong as it is. I also however think that it would be nice if portals automatically spawned at the start of the trial but they could be picked up if you weren’t happy with the portal placements.
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Ok when it first came out I wanted it straight out of the game. I’ve come to grow on it a bit and see it isn’t too bad however there are still some changes I think need to happen in order to help it’s counter, cause atm it’s very limited.
1: Remove the ability for it to detect when people are on totems and give this ability to TOTH. Like ######### were they thinking when they literally gave this perk everything thrill of the hunt has but so much more. The counter play to this perk is removing both dull ad lit totems but that’s insanely hard outside of a swf when they can just see ur aura when u go near one.
2: Add like a 30 second cool down on ruin if it is taken out whilst undying is active and allow it to restart its abilities after this time. Every other totem perk has a penalty for loosing the totem like devour and lullaby loosing all stacks etc, but ruin avoids this ad it nick this is not only unfair but should be adjusted accordingly.
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@Orion said:
This has nothing to do with which side gets more or fewer nerfs. The issue is that a lot of the devs' reasoning for nerfing killer perks can be applied to survivor perks, yet the survivor perks aren't nerfed.
If you want an old example, DS was buffed to the current 5 seconds because Enduring affected it when it was just 3 seconds and made the stun too short. Enduring was later nerfed to only affect pallet stuns because the devs (rightfully) realized it was impossible to make a stun perk that wasn't too powerful without Enduring, but also wasn't worthless with Enduring. However, DS remained at 5 seconds, despite the devs outright stating that 5 seconds was too much when the killer didn't have Enduring and using that as a justification for nerfing Enduring.
Another example, NOED. It used to last forever, so survivors just GTFO while the killer sometimes got one extra kill. When survivors complained about the perk, it was nerfed to only last 2 minutes. However, that still wasn't enough, because it was "boring" to hide and wait out NOED, so the devs changed it again to become the only hex perk whose activation can be prevented outright. Survivors still complain because they don't want to cleanse totems, but I hope the devs are done nerfing it.
Now, I doubt the devs are intentionally biased toward survivors, but it's hard to look at their decisions without thinking that they're at least a little biased toward survivors.
You missed the whole entire point about ds being nerfed and changed. Clearly you didn't see the old ds much.
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@jesus_Christ_offical said:
Does anyone feel like Freddy is a little overpowered? I feel this way because most of the games I enter with Freddy I I get destroyed in each game.the only times i beat him is when everyone is dead and I can find the hatchet if I can. I feel like he has a little to much power on his hands when he teleports to generators and when he the pallets are fake which pisses me off when that happens. You have to be really precised when playing against him you have to be playing a long time in order to beat him which I have been playing for almost a year. I really think they should at least nerf the pallet thing if that helps with actually getting gameplay in the game.
Yea freddy's been knowing busted and insanely strong for along time. I wouldn't midn it so much if it didn't drag out matches for infinity and required more skill from the freddy's part.
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@Eredin_Bréacc_Glas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/196144/the-stupidest-part-about-ruin-undying-tinkerer
Holy ######### I'm sitting here seeing ######### DH unbreakable DS every damn game and then I see some dickhead crying about undying tinkerer this is such a ######### joke if bhvr is nerfing another meta killer perk without finally fixing the ######### with decisive dead hard sprint burst unbreakable and dead hard then I'm just gonna play a different game
I'm not even going to get into the dh bt ds unbreakable argumnet other than say I don't have a problem with it as killer.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1670979#Comment_1670979
Mobility like Blight?
Game starts at 21 seconds, both totems gone by 1:25. That’s 1 minute and 4 seconds into the game and both totems are gone.
I’m not using Jund as an example because “oh a streamer said it so it must be true”, I’m using this because I don’t record my own games but this is what is happening to me frequently now.
Survivors stopped caring about totems after the Ruin nerf and the first week this combo was very effective. Now however they are seeing totems as a priority and I see survivors rushing to cleanse dull totems at the start of a trial. Previously only Inner Strength users and gen shy Claudettes did this but now almost everyone is doing it.
Survivors have adapted and honesty I don’t think the combo is so good anymore. I’ve stopped taking it on a number of killers because of examples like the video above. Having 2 perks taken out about 2 minutes into the game isn’t very effective. Nobody wants to spend all game defending the totems either when gens are the more crucial threat.
Ok I agree survivors are learning to adapt to it, the problem is the inconsistensy of the combo in that when ur with solo q teammates or chilling out and dont find the totems you've already lost the game. But super organised teams will try to find ways to play around it.
Also you know undying allows u to see when people are working on the totems so you can just dash to them whenever that's the case.
I playd 20 games of this build on blight and the best survivors got down to was 2 gens left.
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@Tricks said:
Spine Chill, Borrowed Time, DS and DH says hi.
Spine chill? You have a problem with spine chill?
Also DS and BT are anti camp and tunneling perks, so you shouldn't be running into them that often it at all if you don't play like this. I hardly ever run into them and if I do there's so many ways to play around it.
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@ClickyClicky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1664735#Comment_1664735
Oh the irony.
If you chase a survivor off a gen with a lot of progress on it, hook them, another survivor runs along for the instafarm with BT....you now have no way of stopping or even delaying that survivor from finishing the gen. You gotta hit them through BT firstly but even if you chase them you can’t hook them due to DS and you can’t slug them due to Unbreakable. You have to just surrender the generator to the survivor.
You cant hook survivors with DS but you cant slug them with unbreakable. You basically have no way of slowing the game down. You dont even need the self-pick-up from Unbreakable, the recovery speed alone makes slugging for pressure unviable against a full team with the perk.
Undying/Ruin/Tinkerer definitely isn’t an instant win. Survivors are making totems a priority again and now those totems are gone within a few minutes.
3 or 4 x DH, DS, Unbreakable is far stronger than Undying/Ruin/Tinekrer. Especially against an M1 killer.
m1 killer maybe but when u have a killer who has any form of mobility, its a completely different story. Gen at 70? Just travel there and its not being done anytime soon. The regression speed is so fast that it does more than a pop would do if you chase the survivor who was on the popped gen, hook them and then they come back. But you don't even have to work for ruin undying. I would be happy if you had to activate it by doing something say hooking a survivor or travelling somewhere but the fact is that you get insane amounts of gen pressure for free. Killers who run it basically dont even need to learn how to pressure gens etc, they just need to travel to a gen everytime tinkerer pops and watch it regress. It's like the way old legion rendered learning how to counter survivors in chase useless, and how old ds made survivors not care if they went down or not.
Yes you could say that you just need to remove the totems but the problem is by the time that's done you've probably already lost the game unless you've gotten insanely lucky with totem rng and found both totems at once. Also you've got to be destroying these totems WHILST every other part of the game is going on and the killer is constantly pressuring/downing you and forcing you off the gens and totems.
As a killer main, i find that i hardly ever have any problems with ds unbreakble because you can play around it. If they start playing agressive and come at you, just down them and that leaves them useless until they unbreakable and chances are it'll draw people off of gens to go for the pickups. Yes you might not be able to hook them but does it really matter if they aren't doing anything? I would rather have someone with unbreakable ds on the floor than someone without it sitting on gens. I also rarely ever run into people i've just hooked because i'm off pressuring other parts of the map and downing other survivors. Idk maybe you've had difference experiences but this is what i often find, even when i vs good survivors.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1664735#Comment_1664735
DS and Unbreakable makes a survivor invincible for 60 seconds
DS can work when not tunneling
DH does not reward a survivor for a good play, believe me I have had survivors "Outplay" me cause Blight's rush lunge is so short
Also, the Ruin/Undying meta is countered by Cleansing Ruin, then look for the new ruin totem and ignore it until undying is gone, only Ruin gets reset, not undying
There are so many things i could say about that but all im gonna say is how early r u lunging on blight so that you miss every deadhard?
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@BaldursGate2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1664864#Comment_1664864
What is kinda sad and you clearly see, how mediocre or bad the majority of perks are. If you look at the tier list, the last good killer perk was when plague was released 1,5 years ago. Now with blight there is at least one additional perk that becomes meta. Even worse with survivors with dead hard 2017 the last perk that became meta.
"Last good killer perk was one of plagues" Righteo....
So im guessing surge is terrible, nemesis has no use in builds, bloodecho is useless on all killers, thrilling tremors has no benefits and im all ears can't be used at all?
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
"creative builds" because survivors are so well known for that.
Decisive Strike, Spine Chill, Ubreakable, Deadhard, Balanced Landing. Prove Thyself, Resilience, Acheataline.
Whoa survivors use so many perks.
If you think that's the only perks that survivors use then damn u must be living under a rock.
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@Booper_Of_Snoot said:
Hey hey, psst psst
If you don't want to do totems, spread out and do gens far away from one another. Can't stop 3 gens if they all tinkerer around the same time.
Yea try doing that without comms and whilst the killer is pressuring and downing people.
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@JacobD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/196144/the-stupidest-part-about-ruin-undying-tinkerer
And once it gets nerfed people will just go back to pop and corrupt, and then people will go back to complaining about those perks, hey at least ruin/undying has a counter unlike pop/corrupt
There's a difference though, most people don't have a problem with corrupt and pop. Well i don't at least. Because yes it can be effective and good but it doesn't just do the work and win the game for you.
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@SloppyKnockout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/196144/the-stupidest-part-about-ruin-undying-tinkerer
Play killer. Make note of the meta perks the majority of survivors use. The overwhelming majority even. Now, remember - killers have been dealing with THAT meta for YEARS. Literally YEARS.
Undying has been out for less than a month and you guys are already demanding a change, despite it STILL not being as strong as the ######### you guys have.
Because survivor meta perks are alot easier to play around, maybe the only time i have difficulty as kiler is deli, bill and ds towards the end of a game. There are many other insanely strong killer perks which i don't usually complain about. I mean i don't even have a problem with noed. It's just that this build literally makes matches unbeatable in the hands of good killers. I was running it on my blight for about 20 games and 2 gens was the best the survivors ever did. Because you literally just go to a gen whenever it's about to be done and regress it.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1662232#Comment_1662232
You are kind of missing the point. If you are TRYING to earn something and compete against strangers (i.e. Killers that aren't your friend) then it IS NOT a casual game. A group in the Que, a SWF team that is making full use of the 5th Perk (Comms) is not casual situation. It is a competitive edge situation. Not all SWF are good, but all SWF do have a competitive edge over the Solo and over the Killer too. I just don't like people using the "casual game with friends' argument to try and justify their SWF.
More to the point, I play with friends all the time and we are in the Ques (earning those BP) but we agree NOT to talk about the game, i.e. no cheating information is passed that isn't being provided by animations or Perks. We talk about Fantasy Football, movies, trash talk each other... all that jazz. We do NOT act like Seal Team Six making sure every single one of us has perfect knowledge of the map, and thus acting with perfect coordination. This is the only way to play a SWF casually, and I assure you that me and my friends are the exception, not the rule. Most SWF use Comms.
So you're saying that casual swfs are not allowed to play in normal ques?
Wouldn't it just be better to give solo q players more information and then buff killers accordingly? Rather than seperating and almost making it like two seperate games.
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@MadLordJack said:
If the problem were Undying, then Undying/Devour Hope would be meta. The problem really is Ruin: now that is can hang around for a decent amount of time without extreme luck, it's an issue.
I think it would be nice if that if ruin is cleansed whilst undying is up, it has like a 30 second or 1 minute cooldown before it is activated again, cause currently its really unfair that totem perks with stacks get penalised but ruin doesn't.
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@Deadeye said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1661361#Comment_1661361
Sounds hard in theory as well, how about just trying and either run Detectives Hunch or Bond? I have some decent games against this combo. I know it can be hard but it is also no solution to complain and lose for the next 3 months
Another problem then arises from that though. Do we have to waste a perk slot just to deal with this bulid? It's like how iron will is a nescesity against sprit. You have too many situations like that and it really forces you to run certain perks. I've been running detectives hunch recently but i'm already starting to get bored of just searching for totems all game.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1661340#Comment_1661340
Self care was meta for like 2 years consecutively and it's still very strong perk. MoM was leaked and community said it's OP, devs released it and it was completely OP so it was gutted as utterly OP perks deserve to be. It wasn't new meta at all, just one broken perk devs used to force everyone to buy ash and then instantly nerf only perk that made peoply but it in the first place.
Meanwhile DS, BT, DH etc are meta since their release and never dropped out of it no matter changes they received.
You could say that dh bt ds are the equivalnet of corrupt, pop, bbq, ruin. Perks which have always been strong for the killer.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1661406#Comment_1661406
Well, TRUE casual SWF can play already... any time they want. It is called a Custom Game. I play them ALL THE TIME with my friends. Five of us get together in person (or over communications) and setup a game. Four of us chatting away with Comms against a friend (who knows we can do it) trying to kill us. That is a true CASUAL game. There is no reason a SWF needs to be competing against OTHER people they don't know, except that they want the advantage it provides.
Heck, we have even managed to scrounge up a Killer on channels to come join us in a custom game. Most Killers are fine when they KNOW what they are facing and aren't afraid. Sometimes we balance our custom games/casual SWF play by only allowing the Survivors 2 or 3 Perks each. Sometimes we allow the Killer to pick the map too. Sometimes (usually when I'm playing the Killer) they get ALL their Perks, and get to choose which Killer I get to use. They don't let me use Myers. :) They stick me with someone they know I can't use.
Do you see my point? True casual games where friends get together don't require being part of the overall Ques. Why would they need to be?
I can't imagine people would play custom games though just because they weren't sweating in a swf. You can't earn any bloodpoints or anything. Yea it sounds like a decent idea at first but it really wouldn't take long before you got bored of vsing the same players over and over again, knowing that it's not a real match and you can't earn anything.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1661374#Comment_1661374
We agree that a better matchmaking system would be nice. :) I think that is the ultimate goal. Either way, Solo and Team play will ultimately have to be in different Ques. They are very different animals, and all attempts by the DEV to balance the 5th Perk (Comms) while everyone is lumped in together will hit the Solo players three times as hard. This is unfortunate, but true.
I personally think Team/League play being its own Que could not only be good for the balance of the game but open up a whole NEW monetary stream for the company. Think of all the cosmetics they could sell for League/Team jackets or hats. I know my pals and myself would love to have matching jackets that say "Unhookers" or whatever other cute name we come up with.
I guess dbd could be ready to take that step considering the balance is far better now. Only concern i have is what happens to casual swfs? And those who don't wanna do gens but just get chased?
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1661354#Comment_1661354
I'm not talking about nerfing them. I'm talking about balancing the SUPERPOWER they have outside the game. You would still be able to fight them. If you don't feel challenged enough, you can STILL choose not to fill in all your Perk Slots, i.e. give yourself a handicap. The point is you have that option already. Those people who are NOT that good and are being overwhelmed by the 5th Perk (Comms) don't have the ability to even things out. Do you see my point?
You can challenge yourself whenever you want already, and don't need SWF to do it.
I come across good SWF every day. I fight NOTHING but Red and Purple Ranks in every match, and most of them are in a SWF and know exactly what they are doing.
Can we swap lobbies please?
Yea i know it can be hard for newer players to go against swf but that's where i personally feel matchmaking and MMR comes in and needs to be improved, not the game balance. If new players were able to vs good swfs and beat them then man i couldn't imagine good killers vs a swf.