Valik
Valik
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2928391#Comment_2928391
Bruh. MAKE UP YOUR MIND
In this VERY SAME THREAD.
Youve said "she needs a rework !!" She "has no counterplay" And NOW you're saying "she's fine as is. She needs no changes" ? So which is it ?
Please actually read what I write before making such statements.
My first comment - the one that started it all:
"She does NOT need a nerf - what she needs is a rework.
Right now, she teeters on a hyper fine edge.
For 80% of players, Nurse is incredibly punishing and super hard to get used to. Her power is thorny and unwieldy in the hands of newer players and a new survivor player vs a new nurse will win just about every time.
The disproportionate performance between the 'average' nurse player and the 'good' nurse player is staggering.
When an average player gets behind her, she can be easily punished by survivors and her power can seem unreliable at times.
But a good player can wipe the floor with survivors without breaking a sweat.
Her kit completely circumvents many parts of normal gameplay, which not only makes her incredibly strong in her 1v1, but also chokes many of the potential perks at her disposal.
There has never been an actual nurse player that ever thought 'Oh no! A pallet/window! My greatest weakness!'
There has never been a nurse that has brought Spirit Fury or Bamboozle.
There's no need.
She feels rotten to play as until you finally 'git gud', then it's hard NOT to cut players down.
Is there counterplay? Yes. But a lot of it involves stealth and breaking line of sight with complete gambles during mind-games.
She's far, far, far from balanced. The only balancing element to her is how unforgiving and punitive her power can be when execution is imperfect.
She's fine as-is where her numbers are concerned, but if we want her to be more enjoyable to learn and less of a face-stomp to play against, she needs a rework."
I didn't think I'd have any real disagreements there, but sure enough.
My second comment:
"She's very fun to play when you're good at her.
She's very unfun to play when you're not good at her.
She's very fun to play against when the killer isn't all that good.
She's very unfun to play against when the killer is skilled."
Again, didn't think I was going to get a ton of hatred for this. I think we can all agree there's relatively little you can do against a highly skilled Nurse player.
Then the argument became about PERSONAL ENJOYMENT.
How we, as individuals PERSONALLY feel about playing as her and playing against her:
Third comment, in reply to the protest from the audacious second post:
"I really don't see how.
It's binary.
You lose line of sight, you run contrary to normal pathing.
She blinks - you do your little spin or DH.
She either hits you or she doesn't.
Rinse and repeat for 7 minutes (Probably shorter, because if she's a good nurse, she's not going to miss much)
I don't see how a killer pointing at you and damaging you regardless of sightlines, pallets, mindgames, spins, or perks is considered 'fun'."
Because, while she does not need a nerf or even a rework - i do not find playing as or against her stimulating.
That is my PERSONAL opinion.
I don't think there's any argument that when you get into a 1v1 joust with a Nurse that it's anything more than "Try to bait her into missing her power or lunge"
From there, it is no longer a conversation about the nurse. it devolves into what a 'Mind Game' is.
Lengthy and long winded discussions on what defines a 'Mind-Game' and what's just spinning and hoping for the best. Where the difference between normal gameplay, random chance, guessing, and proper mind games are. Which, in all, has nothing to do with the Nurse.
I never, at any point suggested that she was OP, that she was too strong or too weak - that she absolutely should be reworked - or that a rework is a good idea for where she is now. Moreover that if there's any changes to be made, she'd have to be reworked to bring her out of the unique and delicate balance that she's found herself in.
The point of the original comment was not at all to suggest that she is languishing in need of a rework but that - if there's anything to be done, it would have to be a big one. She is not in a place where her numbers could be tweaked away - and no amount of changing her alpha numbers would make her any better to play as at low skill, or against at high skill. Saving a rework - she MUST be maintained.
However, this was not what we discussed. We discussed the very nature of counter-play, mind-games, and the nature of psychology in relation to the reactionary relationship between players in an asymmetrical game.
In my original, post I even declared that there is counter-play to the nurse. However, I was very firm to suggest that running in little circles or breaking line of sight is not 'counterplay' because it is not specific to the nurse and is generally wise advice. 'Breaking line of sight for nurse is no more counterplay than it is against any other killer.' was the heart of such points.
I'd love to have a discussion about the implications of the Nurse's current balance and how it effects players of different skill levels - and what a potential rework would look like, if one should come to pass, and why it would be important not to rework her.
However, here we stand discussing the definition of interpersonal gameplay mechanics.
Never said that she was OP, never said that she was bad, never said that she was in a bad place for the game.
Did say she was unfun, did say average players would benefit from a rework, did say that breaking line of sight was not 'countering' the Nurse.
The confusion must stem from the opening statement and the conclusion:
"She does NOT need a nerf - what she needs is a rework." Which could have been worded better, I did not mean to imply that she needs one by virtue - but that a rework alone would solve her 'problems' - which were defined in the statement and summarized in the conclusion:
"She's FINE AS-IS where her numbers are concerned, but IF we want her to be more enjoyable to learn and LESS OF A FACE-STOMP to play against, she needs a rework."
In this statement, the requirement for the rework would be 'IF' we want her to be more approachable for average players and less of a steam roller in the hands of high rank players. Which not everyone would agree with, hopefully.
In light of the OP suggesting a nerf. The outline you should be taking away from the conclusion is "I understand where you are coming from. If it is a nerf you seek, instead seek a rework. But seek you need not."
Please, my friend, read what I have said before pointing fingers.
I absolutely could have worded my points better, and I would have been more than fine with clearing up confusion.
I don't like writing poorly and miscommunicating my points. I'm more than fine if you disagree with me - but the important thing is that we are at least on the same page.
I hope that in the future as we connect in the forums, we can try to offer constructive and direct counterpoints that are relevant. How this entire conversation was miscommunicated, derailed, and devolved into something so ugly is unbecoming.
~
To clarify for the record:
Does Nurse need a nerf?
She's fine as-is. If we want her to be more enjoyable to learn and less of challenging to play against at high levels, she needs a rework instead and should never be nerfed in her current state.
I do not enjoy playing as or against her regardless of performance, but this does not mean that she should be buffed, nerfed, reworked, or changed based on my opinions. I simply find her to lack any and all stimulation for what amounts to purely subjective means.
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927863#Comment_2927863
You might want to look up what a straw man is
Oh c'mon, man, is this where we're getting at?
My original statement abridged:
- Nurse is balanced very delicately (any small change would be drastic as she is now)
- She is very punishing to play for the vast majority of players due to their skill level
- The difference between skilled and unskilled nurse players is the most jarring in the game
- Her kit completely circumvents conventional gameplay
- She completely ignores many perks due to her exemption from contemporary play
- She can be very discouraging to play before reaching a certain skill level
- Playing as or against Nurse includes mind games but also has a lot of bling gambles and guessing games
- Her primary balancing element is that her power demands perfect skill
- She is fine where she is - she'd need a rework if we wanted to make her less risk/reward oriented
I don't see where the straw-man is here, aside from the fact we just had this incredibly long and opinionated debate on if there is ever any 'guessing game' or random chance incorporated while playing against her, or if it's 100% psychological jousting at all levels.
This entire time the philosophical spearhead of our discussion was 'Aren't all guessing games and 'blind gambles' just mind-games as well' meaning it has all shifted from the original intent of the threat into a subjective argument as to the definition of what a "Mind Game" is.
Which more or less has devolved into such a guttural discussion of even if minute considerations can be considered 'trickery' by the simple reactionary nature of the game. Even in light of the fact that I never said that ALL plays against the nurse were gambles and that none were skillful.
Which is a very bitter takeaway from the body of such a statement.
We can argue all day and night as to what a "Mind Game" is with points on both sides. But regardless - the statement of the Nurse still stands.
She's fine as is. She needs no changes.
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It's very, very simple - but it would be a world of difference.
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I can't tell if this would be the easiest or the hardest.
Easiest because they have prior experience with the license, yes!
Probably also the hardest seeing as how this license venture failed pretty badly :(
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I love gigachad - but after many years of attempting to use basic numerals like XIV in the office place - humanity at large is not ready for us. They simply are not educated enough.
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I'm not into Hockey, sorry my northern friends! :(
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The only reason I'm saying "No" is because I think it's a little more complex than a single on-off switch.
First off - they shouldn't be letting anyone change with the settings in the ini files - plain and simple.
Nobody should be messing with those. Anti-Cheat should be strong enough to pummel discrepancies into the ground.
However, I'd normally suggest a switch in the Options menu.
My only issue is that this may have some unforeseen consequences - similar to the unfair advantages granted by the vertical aspect ratios that were previously supported by the game.
There's a reason there isn't a brightness, gamma, or audio mix select options in the menu - because it is intended to be broadly fair and of equal play for all considered.
That being said, if AA did not seem to have an advantageous effect in certain circumstances, I don't see why they shouldn't have a switch in the option menu to support such players.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2927863#Comment_2927863
No. That's not it. Your paragraph seems to be missing how the influence works. It's not about prediction or knowledge. It's about influencing each-other. Poker? A bluff? Does that helps?
Correlating mind-games to poker is more than fine.
I just don't see how literally every single movement or decision made in the game is so lofty as to be considered on-par with Poker.
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926773#Comment_2926773
Literally everything is "agree to disagree" territory when you're discussing with someone who refuses to accept simple facts.
Is the sun a big ball of burning gas? I dunno, it could be made of cheese. Let's agree to disagree?
Fact is, you're saying that the Nurse having to guess which way a survivor is going to go, and having to make predictions, etc, is not a mind-game... when it literally involves having to make guesses based on cues the survivor is giving and completely in control of! Seems to me the very definition of a mind-game.
@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926542#Comment_2926542
It's not about agreeing to disagreeing.
There are so many points where you seem to ignore what the situations really are ...
The hatchet in a chase is about mind games. Kind of the same as against a blink except harder as the Huntress can cancel the throw. (And retry immediately up to 6 other times)
Aren't you looking at the killer when you run? Aren't you looking at him to know what he will do and where? (If not, you'll get there.) This is used both sides to influence and, yes, mind game each other's next move.
And this is only one example of the kind of mind games involving an hatchet throw.
Plays who try brute force and simple random reactions will get downed fast by a killer who mind games his hits (or blinks). (Huntress is my second favourite killer.)
It seems difference of experience and skill do matter.
edit: autocorrect correction
You have both proved the point in spades with these statements:
if anything that involves guesswork, anticipation, or uncertain prediction in this game is considered a 'mind-game', then literally every faculty within Dead By Daylight is.
My friends, you're saying that the minute decision to walk in any particular direction at any time for any reason is a 'mind game' if it is at all influenced by knowledge of the opponent's actions; which, at its core, is every fiber in the tapestry of this game's design. If your definition of mind game is any action made based on your opponent's action, this is the truth.
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926542#Comment_2926542
Uhh... did you read what I said?
Yes I did. Your opening statement - in reference to my pointing out that Nurse having to guess where to blink is a mind-game - was "If what you constitute as a mind game IS a mind game - then back-revving with Hillbilly and Tentacle whips in the open are pinnacle of mind games."
Because you're acting like I said that Nurse was anything like those killers, and you'd be right to criticize me if I did.
We were discussing mind-games, and what constitutes mind-games. And I was very clear that for the Nurse to guess where to blink is a mind-game. You somehow then made a leap to assert that Billy's back-revving, etc, the pinnacle of mind-games!
Now, whilst I will agree that back-revving, etc, is a mind-game (will he charge, won't he charge, who knows?), it's hardly the pinnacle of mind-games, and I believe you were trying to be sarcastic in making this point, thusly attempting to negate the actual weight of Nurse's blinks.
The crucial difference here is that with Billy's back-revving, or Huntress's hatchet, etc, the survivor has zero control over whether the killer will perform that action or not. All they can do is plan for an either/or scenario.
However, when Nurse is holding her blink, she is definitely going to blink. She cannot cancel it, and the longer she holds it, the more problematic it can get. There is 100% a mind-game here because you can use your knowledge of Nurse's mechanics - that is assuming you have any - to force her into mistake.
It's a mind-game, and it's a completely fair mind-game because it's one the survivor has good chance of manipulating.
I was saying that sidestepping a projectile/spinning to avoid a lash or dash is not a 'mind game'. Plain and simple.
I know what you're saying. You're failing to realise that by side-stepping any projectile etc, you're losing distance. It is a mind-game on the side of the killer, and not a particularly fair one IMHO because the survivor has little influence. Unlike Nurse's blinks which I believe are much fairer.
This is all 'agree to disagree' territory.
I have very clearly and deliberately outlined the differences between guessing and mind-games from an objective point of view. You offer your own.
The definition, at this point is purely subjective.
But if anything that involves guesswork, anticipation, or uncertain prediction in this game is considered a 'mind-game', then literally every faculty within Dead By Daylight is.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925636#Comment_2925636
I was talking about it affecting the Obsession, not the Obsession getting the double effect as well. 24 seconds extra for opening is basically nothing. No Way Outs duration is barely even passable and that's much more.
What about 32 or 40?
IMO, the big draw is the 1c/4s regression - which makes 99% gates impossible. Knowing that the exit takes so long to charge up may make losing that progress hurt so much more.
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@ImAJoke264 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2912883#Comment_2912883
I think solo is already aggravating, and I think having an icon system would be less annoying than annoying
That's a lot of obtuse and stringent work to make Solo 0.01% less annoying when it would be better to just buff good solo perks like Better Together.
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925786#Comment_2925786
Oh please, you cannot compare Nurse's blinks to Hillbilly back-revving, or Nemesis tentacle strike, or Huntress hatchets, or Demo's shred etc.... for one very simple reason that clearly demonstrates you know nothing about Nurse!!!!
Hillbilly and Bubba can cancel their chain-saws
Nemesis can cancel his tentacle strike
Huntress can cancel her hatchet
Demo can cancel his shred
And all do so without any penalties.
Nurse CANNOT cancel a blink once she starts to charge it (i.e. there's no faking it)
Nurse CANNOT reduce the duration/distance of the blink once it's charged up (which presents problems for her on maps with multiple levels)
Nurse suffers mis-blinks, objects that cannot be passed through, etc, and then suffers a COOLDOWN on top of that where she cannot attack, her vision is obscured (which allows smart survivors to hide), and she has to WAIT for her blinks to charge back up again
So, tell me again how you're comparing these completely separate mechanics as though they're one and the same?
A mind game is not an educated guess. It is forcing a killer or survivor into making a play against their best interest.
No, you're completely wrong here. A mind-game is where you force the opponent to have to choose correctly for success. It's not forcing a player to play against their interest.
As a killer, it's perfectly possible to zone survivors into dead areas of the map... that's not in their interest, and it's not a mind-game either.
As a killer, it's perfectly possible to force survivors to trade hooks... that's not necessarily in their interest, and it's also not a mind-game.
Uhh... did you read what I said? Because you're acting like I said that Nurse was anything like those killers, and you'd be right to criticize me if I did.
I didn't say that she was at all like any of those.
I was saying that sidestepping a projectile/spinning to avoid a lash or dash is not a 'mind game'. Plain and simple.
You don't 'mind game' a Huntress Hatchet by stepping to the side.
And in that split second before, when it's a joust of predictions - the level of play makes it a total gamble - Like the Sherlock Holmes poison pill. You can hedge your bets, but it's still a bet. That's my point. Not that they were like Nurse or that survivors should play the same against the Nurse, just as an illustrative example of the difference between 'outsmarting' an enemy with a mind game and using chance to dodge a projectile.
Also, uhh... You do know that as a nurse - you can look down to ostensibly cancel your blink, right? If survivors double back, you can fatigue yourself to keep yourself in position or stunt your distance appropriately. It helps when cheeky survivors double back or when you change your mind about things.
You're talking as if Ii haven't played as her before or something - as if we both haven't played the game for thousands of hours.
All in all, no complaints about what you said - I just feel like you got the exact wrong idea of what I was saying. I hope this helped clear that up.
We're going to have to disagree on what constitutes a mind-game, though.
Forcing a player to choose correctly to win is called booting up the game. You are not mind-gaming by running around a window or standing at a pallet while they do a little dance trying to predict where you're going.
The game is all about making tiny choices, you already have to make the right choices or you lose.
Showing your red-stain to trick a survivor into a dedicated vault that you punish at an LT isn't 'Forcing them to make the right choice', you have provided false stimuli to provoke them into dedicating to what they believed to be the right choice. By feeding an opponent misinformation in the joust, you entice them to play into your hand. That is the nature of a mind-game. Crouch behind a generator to make it look like you lost a DS, you have starved the killer of the basic information to "make the right choice" because you have fed them misinformation. If you feed someone a lie to trick them, this is quantifiably against the definition of "Forcing them to make the right choice" because you have removed the very nature of a choice through misinformation. If you hide your red-stain as Ghost Face and moon-walk crouch by a window when a survivor isn't looking, they believe you're on the other side of the wall, looking the wrong way - expecting the wrong things - completely ignorant of the danger you have placed them in as they round the corner.
There is no 'right choice' to be made here, you have removed their ability to make the right choice by making them believe the lie that you were somewhere that they were not. Even if they were to deduce that you were making a play, but had no idea where you were, how are they supposed to know what the 'correct' option is? You are incapable of forcing a survivor to make a 'correct choice' if you are confusing them and corralling them towards a mistake.
Not all 'you messed up' situations are mind games - but all mind-games are designed to cause your opponent to mess up. However, this is done by forcing a commitment through false information, or a lack of usual information. There is no 'mind game' where you are positioned where your opponent thinks you are, but likewise, there is no mind game unless you are attempting to trick your opponent into doing something specific.
If you hide in a locker, you may have avoided the killer by not being where they think you'd be, but it isn't a mind game.
And once you're in direct contact with the Killer, all mind-games are out the window, there's no misinformation to give, positions to subvert, or expectations to play off of. The killer will try to hit you and you will try to force a miss or tank the hit.
Just because your opponent does something silly or disadvantageous does not mean you outwitted them with a mind-game.
Just because your opponent played into your hands does not mean you outwitted them with a mind-game.
Just because you played into the hands of your opponent does not mean they outwitted you with a mind-game.
Just because yo did something silly or disadvantageous does not mean your opponent outwitted you with a min-game.
However, if you or your opponent - in a duel - feed one another false information to illicit a favorable outcome, you are mind-gaming.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
Counter play is usually something set or restricts a killer power in a certain way to give survivors a way to possible counter a power.
Ghost face reveal, Making Legion Miss in Frenzy to cancel it, Kicking Victor, Freddy Clocks, Disarming Trapper Traps, Light burn Wraith, Disarming Hag Traps with a flashlight, Destroying Demogorgon Portals, Using Environment with pinhead chains, Burning Artist Crows, Moving Onryo Tapes.
Mind gaming is like double backing or hiding red stain.
I have no idea what "Blind Chance" Is
@RakimSockem said:
Jukes and mind game are almost interchangeable depending on the context. I think it's one of those "a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle is not always a square" things.
As an example, if you 360 someone, that is a mind game but not a juke. If you fake going one way while the killer is breaking a pallet but use their vision to go the other way, that is a mind game but also you juked the killer so it's both.
Counterplay imo is just knowing what you should or shouldn't do in certain situations. If I'm against a huntress, counterplay would be pre-dropping pallets because if I drop it while she's right behind me, it's a free hit. Or a killer example that was used on one of my teammates: The Hag can place a trap in the exit gate before picking up someone if she has time (in this case she did) so when the survivor wiggles off because there's no close hooks, the Hag can still catch them using the trap. The survivor has to either trigger it, or slow to a crawl and get caught anyway so that's their counterplay for that situation
Blind chance isn't a term I ever use so idk what you mean by it but there have been times where a Ghostface in stealth mode has walked past me and I had no idea he was coming but he didn't see me somehow and it allowed me to get away. I guess that counts?
Thank you for commenting, I love hearing what everyone thinks!
I updated the post to give a little more clarification. Blind Chance is supposed to be just that - Blind Chance. it's not some lingo or anything streamers say. When a Huntress winds back a hatchet and just makes a complete guess and lands a hit (or nearly misses) that's blind chance. A Nurse having 0 idea where someone is, but teleporting somewhere silly on a gamble and finding them - that's blind chance. Running at the killer in a last ditch effort to confuse them and hope they wiff, no spinning or perks, that's blind chance.
Taking a completely unfounded gamble in hopes for the best - like unhooking yourself with the base 4%. You had no way of KNOWING it would pay off - so it isn't a Juke, you don't know if it will trick anyone - so it isn't a mind-game, and it is not a reliable method to subvert a specific established element - so isn't couterplay.
If this was Rock Paper Scissors:
Juking would be making your opponent think you will go Rock when you go Scissors instead.
Mind-Games would be you tricking your opponent into going Paper while you go Scissors.
Counterplay is smacking their hand so it hurts to make 'Rock'
and Blind Chance is having no method, but just shooting your shot and hoping for the best.
What's the DbD Equivalent?
Do these examples even make sense? Why or why not?
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926216#Comment_2926216
But that's true of all-but-two maps in DbD. The only 2 that don't have structures in them is Shelter Woods and Wreckers yard.
Unless, Haddonfield is a complete maze, like RPD?
Absolutely.
There are places in the map, due to only having two doors, where things are maze like - but it isn't centralized, each house is its own little maze.
You know how in RPD you get annoyed because you can hear a gen getting done, but you have to walk all the way around, take the stairs, then walk back? It's like that around each and every house because there's no simple way through.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2926194#Comment_2926194
Yea. It's really not. Beings you don't seem to understand that literally everything you listed is counterplay
So, let me get this right.
Running in little circles to avoid a killer hit isn't a gamble, it's 'skillful counterplay'?
Diving left or right just before a hatchet is thrown isn't a gamble, it's 'skillful counterplay?'
What happens when it doesn't pay off? is it 'Actually kinda silly counterplay?'
What exactly are you countering when you do a spin or dive? The killer is going to swing either way, you aren't preventing them from doing anything or tricking them - you're taking a gamble and hoping for the best.
it's no more 'counterplay' than unhooking yourself with 4%. You took a risk and it paid off.
Unhooking yourself with 4% isn't a mind-game, is it?
Spinning around in little circles isn't a mind-game.
If what you describe as counterplay was, in actuality, counterplay, then every single step taken, movement made, or breath exhaled as a survivor is counterplay - and every choice made in a match that results in killer failure is 'mind gaming'.
Both of which are definitively untrue.
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@dugman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925553#Comment_2925553
The map isn’t “massive”, in fact they reduced its size in the revamp. From the notes on the updated Wiki for Lampkkn Land
- This update also removed two rectangular pieces from opposite outer edges of the Map outline, reducing the Map's size from 168 sqT to 152 sqT.
For context the median map size is 156 tiles so it’s actually smaller than most maps. (For comparison Mother’s Dwelling, the “Red Forest” map you’re probably referring to, is 188 tiles, it’s way bigger than Haddenfield.)
@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925973#Comment_2925973
I was going to say the new Haddonfield map looked small.
Remember your highschool geometry, my friend.
While the tile size is not all that big, the distance you must travel to navigate it is.
If you have to get around 2 structures / fences that are 3 tiles wide in order to travel 2 tiles of distance - those 2 tiles are effectively going to be 6 tiles long.
The distance from the back yard of the main building to the generator inside is less than 12 meters, but requires over twice that distance to be traveled to kick it.
If you KNOW that someone is healing upstairs, so you walk around the insde of the house, around the fence, through the door, around the rooms, up the stairs, and over to the balcony where they are healing - it's a much greater distance you have to travel than the sum of the space between,
Volume =/= distance.
By volume, it's not at all the largest map around. But by relative distance - it is massive.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925786#Comment_2925786
So you have no clue what mind games and counter play is. Got it
Coming from someone who declares turning about in place to be the pinnacle of DbD gameplay, I'm going to have to take that as a compliment.
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@HelloDarkness said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925584#Comment_2925584
Ikr, ppl still arguing if swf gives them and advantage or not, while completely ignoring my suggestion.
While I think the entire SBMM system needs to be overhauled to avoid the SWF issue... I think that your suggestion is a very eloquent way of balancing the tables in the meantime :)
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@PlaysByShady said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925714#Comment_2925714
Oh man, this is the greatest bit of comedy writing I've ready today!
"Survivor goes behind a wall.
You GUESS where they are.
You repeat this if you did not guess correctly.
If you GUESS right, you hit them.
That is not a mind game."
Dude, what else is a mind-game except forcing your opponent to guess their way to success?????
If what you constitute as a mind game IS a mind game - then back-revving with Hillbilly and Tentacle whips in the open are pinnacle of mind games.
Nemesis pulls out tentacle.
Do you dive left or right?
Nemesis is going to slap you if you go straight, but he will also understand that you know this and avoid.
Left or right?
50/50
Is this a mind game to you?
If Huntress got a rework - Hatchets go through all terrain, but she is slowed to 25% for 5 seconds after each throw during a reset. Infinite Hatchets.
You go behind a wall.
You can either continue going straight or stand still.
Huntress will have to make an educated guess on if you double back or not.
A mind game is not an educated guess. It is forcing a killer or survivor into making a play against their best interest.
Showing/hiding red stain to make a survivor think you're somewhere that you're not - that's not a guess, that's tricking them.
Showing a killer scratch marks and then walking the other way to trick them into vaulting a window, that's not a guess, that's tricking them.
Looking down at a pallet to make it seem that you will break it to force a survivor into the open, that's not a guess, that's tricking them.
Running for a fast vault to illustrate to the killer they can get a hit, only to pull away - that is not a guess, that is tricking them.
Pulling out your hatchet before approaching a pallet to make survivors think that you are going to hold it isn't a guess on if they will throw the pallet or not - it's tricking them into conserving it.
Mindgames are not GUESSING games, they are tricking your opponent into doing something against their best interest.
Running left or right for a nemesis whip isn't a mind game. It's a last-ditch gamble.
Throwing a pallet in hopes that the Huntress was about to sheathe isn't a mind-game, it's a gamble.
Jumping out of a locker because you're making an educated guess that the Bubba is lowering his rev isn't a mind-game, it's a gamble.
In back-rev situations with Demogorgon shreds, Victor jumps, Pig dashes, Executioner Judgement Of The Damned - you aren't "Mind Gaming" them, you're trying to juke a gamble. You're playing rock paper scissors - blind chance.
Blind chance ro-sham-bo games aren't mind games.
Moonwalking, stain flashes, power tricks, window fakes, DS repair baits, LT pauses, Corner peeks, DH holes, Feign Ignorance, Camera flicks, False approaches - these are MIND GAMES that are intended to trick your opponent into throwing themselves out of position or losing you in chase.
Spinning in little circles hoping that the killer loses you is not a mind game.
Going left and hoping the killer goes right is not a mind game.
If you think that a nurse missing a completely blind blink is 'outplaying' the nurse, then you really need to take a hard look at what you consider an outplay. Because, in that case, a blind hatchet narrowly missing you can be considered an 'outplay' - an Executioner's alt attack coming up 1 inch short of hitting you can be considered an 'outplay', or a clown missing a window with their bottle can be considered an 'outplay'.
Winning rock paper scissors and jousting with blind chance is not skill.
If your greatest way to beat an opponent is to lock them into blind chance, I think that speaks to the balance of the interaction in and of itself.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925658#Comment_2925658
Because the sole and exclusive way for her to land a hit is by beating you at a mindgame. It’s the most skillful kind of chase you can possibly have. Nothing is decided by map RNG. It’s entirely decided by which player is more skilled at mindgaming.
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925658#Comment_2925658
Because when your mind game works. You DONT get hit ...?
Because she's one of maybe 4 killers who can get downs at a reasonable pace....?
Because she's not boring to face....? Because you can read her body language and what she's going to do....?
Because playing mind games against a nurse. Is infinitly more interesting then looping a long wall 3 times against a ######### killer like pig. Dropping a pallet...Repeat..While all 5 gens pop...?
Because she's about as fun and balanced as you can get...?
You look at a survivor and hold down your power the correct amount of time.
You land near them and repeat this.
You hit them.
That is not a mind game.
Survivor goes behind a wall.
You guess where they are.
You repeat this if you did not guess correctly.
If you guess right, you hit them.
That is not a mind game.
Charge in the open.
Survivor doubles back.
Look at the ground to lower distance and hit them.
That is not a mind game.
T-bag on other side of wall.
Nurse accidentally does not hold down button enough to clear the wall and teleports right in front of it.
You escape as she fatigues.
That is not a mind game.
Nurse charges at pallet.
Throw pallet to stun.
She looks at ground and releases her power and swings mid-tp to avoid stun and hit you.
That is skillful, but not a mind-game.
You see survivor.
Teleport to them.
They do a little spin.
You miss.
That is not a mind game.
You precise blink.
They dead hard.
You blink again.
You hit them.
That is not a mind game.
Misjudge distance and teleport too far.
That is not a mind game.
Undetectable from tinkerer
Teleport upstairs and grab someone off of a generator.
Good eye, but still not a mind game.
Undetectable from Tinkerer.
Teleport Upstairs on wrong side of generator.
Survivor gets up and you hit them with follow up blink.
Nice try, not a mind game.
Run around a wall the nurse cannot see past.
Nurse teleports to the other side of wall, swings and hits you.
That is not a mind game
Run around a wall the nurse cannot see past.
Nurse teleports to the other side of wall, swings and misses you.
That is not a mind game.
Run around a wall the nurse cannot see past.
Nurse misjudges their power and does not clear the wall.
Nurse attempts to teleport again, but misjudges their power and slingshots too far.
That is not a mind game. You did not mind game the killer. The killer doesn't know how to use their power well.
Nurse charges her teleport, you use balanced landing
She blinks in front of you and hits you.
That is not a mind game. The killer did not mind game you. The killer knows how to use their power well.
I don't know what there is to understand. There are few opportunities to 'mind-game' a good nurse.
Either you blind them to your movements and force them to make a complete guess, or you're in the open and you spin and pray.
There is no 'I outsmarted the nurse' only either 'that nurse isn't very good' or 'I forced the nurse to make a blind guess' which is not at all a mind-game.
If a nurse knows where you are, you cannot mind game them.
If a nurse does not know where you are - her power is, unlike any other killer, completely binary.
See the nurse about to cut you off?
What do you do?
Double back?
50/50 they commit to it or predict.
Snore.
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@TurboTOne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2925570#Comment_2925570
the thing is, there is far easier dailys compared to this One. Like the Legion Challenge for example. Or Freddys.
Totally true.
It's just hard to strike a balance for Demo.
Do you just say 'screw it! 12 shred attacks!' and call it a day?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2924489#Comment_2924489
That's so untrue though. A good nurse is very fun to play against
I really don't see how.
It's binary.
You lose line of sight, you run contrary to normal pathing.
She blinks - you do your little spin or DH.
She either hits you or she doesn't.
Rinse and repeat for 7 minutes (Probably shorter, because if she's a good nurse, she's not going to miss much)
I don't see how a killer pointing at you and damaging you regardless of sightlines, pallets, mindgames, spins, or perks is considered 'fun'.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2924185#Comment_2924185
When it happens it can also mess up your MMR, literally yesterday I kobed when I was the last to day and Legion was going to the guy opening the gate. I opened the other gate, and I escaped. Was that a skillful play? No, it was just luck, but because of luck situations like that the game can completely flip in a frustrating way, same with Trapper or Pig where RNG plays a massive factor, and same with maps that either can be complete dead zones or a pallet town.
Also, if someone kobes, they keep DS, and if they go in a locker you cannot do anything.
Still it's a 4%, but this is nothing compared to what deliverance can do, especially if everyone in a team runs it. It's massive pressure on the killer for no reason, and it incentivises camping and tunneling, because you get hit by it even if you go for multiple hooks.
Overall the kobe and luck mechanic should be reworked, as well as all the amount of RNG in the game.
Eh, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.
I got myself off the hook once or twice and got killed soon after.
Deliverance DS players are nothing new - and they certainly don't break the game. The 4-10% spread over 3 attempts isn't a deal breaker.
All in all, it isn't earned - but it's far from frustrating. If someone gets the 4% luck chance on their hail Mary and get off the hook, you almost can't even be upset. It's such a blind chance. You wouldn't get mad if a huntress threw a random hatchet into the air during chase and it came back down and bonked you on the head - because it's so bizarre and rare.
Personally, I think Luck should play a larger role in the game than just being an unhook score. The game needs a little more RNG in it to keep things interesting, not less. If maps were static, pallets were always the same, perks always the same, loops always the same, hooks always the same - the game would grow old far quicker than ever.
Agree to disagree because I see where you're coming from in wanting refined structure. But I believe that injecting a little more subtle randomness will add some much needed variety and interest to a game that's far too competitive for its own good.
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@Blueberry said:
Out of those options I kinda like the first one but it still seems too weak. To be honest though the fix is way easier than that, just like triple the amount of time added to the gate for hits with the current Remember Me as it’s currently ridiculously too low, make it affect the Obsession so you’re not encouraged to tunnel them out, and finally cause it to make gate progress regression at 1/4 the opening speed. These changes take away the toxic aspect of it, make the time added to the gates a respectable amount and while not as much added as No Way Out it gets the bonus of regressing gates if they refuse to open them even if it is very slowly.
I totally get you, but 3 seconds per token grants 24 seconds of extra opening for non-obsessions and 48 additional seconds for the Obsession. That's over 1 minute of opening time. Pretty strong. Even at 0 stacks, a full exit gate will regress to nothing over 60 seconds. At max stacks, Exit gates can take from 44 to 68 seconds to open. I believe it's plenty strong. If anything, as you said, it should just be changed so that the Obsession doesn't have double the debuff.
Survivors like to 99% exit gates, and this keeps the end game alive while forcing survivors to actually open the gates instead of leaving them – granting the killer the advantage of end game collapse and access to Blood Warden, another Krueger perk. The worst aspects of the original is that the Obsession was immune to its sway, and its addition to the exit gates was miniscule at best, and nonexistent at its worst. Bringing Remember Me right now encourages killers to tunnel the Obsession to remove the greatest threat to their end game play. By encouraging the killer to leave the survivor to milk them for several tokens, it allows more dynamic gameplay and synergy with other obsession perks. It also makes the Obsession a juicy end-game query, as if they are the one opening the gate, it can take them a very long time to get through the opening phase. On one hand, this perk can add an entire health state worth of healing to the exit gate, which may be strong in many circumstances. On the other hand, once the Obsession evades the killer at the revelation of this perk – the survivors can walk away with hardly any detriment at all. It can work very well, it may not do much at all – but it would at least be a potential game changer that warrants a perk slot.
The core idea is to force survivors to glue themselves to the exits for longer and to punish them for leaving them at 99%. If they want to get out, they're going to have to commit to the EGC.
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You may have to adjust your monitor brightness levels. Color balancing is a concern if something in the game is actually hurting your eyes to look at. Either your monitor white balance is off, or it's being crushed through the roof - which is no good!
The heat does get a little 'bright' but it's no more than an orange and white texture that's being placed. It should not be shooting sun rays into your retina and melting your pupils - if it is, I highly suggest checking your monitor settings.
Sorry to hear that this little part of the game has become needlessly difficult for you - it's never good to have the game's enjoyment stripped away by something so small and be nearly powerless to fix it. :(
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The only change the Legion needs is that the mid-heartbeat music needs to be toned down if unintended.
It may be a 'legion buff' but Heartbeat music is typically broken up into 4 categories:
- Distant, just in radius (<32m)
- Present, not super loud, but definitely there (<24m)
- Approaching, it's louder and tells you that you're within a short distance. (<16m)
- Loud, They're right on top of you, but not in chase with you. (<8m)
Distant is usually very faint, Present is also usually low to a degree. It's only when you're at Approaching that the volume begins to kick up more - and Loud is where the game is screaming into your ear because you're in imminent danger.
Legion's Present, Approaching, and Loud music are basically the same - it feels to me - with the only difference being the instrumentals.
You can tell which one is which by when certain layers of music begin to chime in. Without it, though, it's hard to tell by the volume/intensity of music if the killer is 24m away or 8m away.
Not sure if it's intended, but it sounds a bit off-balance when compared to other killer terror radius sounds.
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I like an ARAM mode.
I'd also love it if the que was blind - all players have a 20% chance of being a killer.
All DLCs unlocked - killers and survivors also have random items/attachments.
Everyone just gets cued up, MMR matched, then one of the 5 is chosen to be a random killer. Everyone gets random perks at tier 3.
Best part about this is people will be encouraged to actually play the other side and try out new things. Sweaty people will hate it, because they wont always play their favorite side, get the perks they want, or the killer they want. However, casual players will not only get to have fun with 'free trials' of DLC perks and killers, but they will also gain insight onto what the 'other side' goes through.
Never know, Behavior may get some DLC sales out of this as players try new killers or perks and think to themselves - 'you know what, I like these things, I'm going to keep them!'
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Wh- what even is this thread?
The original suggestion:
@HelloDarkness said:
When you play against an swf, the next 2-3 matches will be played against solo players.
Was an honest enough one. Play against SWF and the SBMM system guarantees a match or a few without pre-mades.
However, here we are - the comments are lit up with people arguing if SWF are even more potent than solo.
It's like watching people debate that water is wet, or that the sky is blue. There's really nothing to argue, let's just give HelloDarkness the credit he deserves for such a simple idea and talk about THAT please.
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If it was just using shred attacks in general, it would be too simple - not even a challenge, really. Hardly even something to try with.
If it was using the portals, it would be obtuse.
Lowering it to 3-4 fully charged shreds would be more than enough of a change, though... as ColonGlock said:
@ColonGlock said:
I agree his daily should be changed or at least lowered to 3 or 4 full shreds. Something that can be accomplished in one match.
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Truthfully, I don't even know why they went in this direction.
SCREAM is all about flashy kills, paranoia, and thrills.
GhostFace terror/chase music should be percussion heavy with aspects of camera clicks and the gentle rising and falling coil whine of strained electronics - perhaps even some 'clicky' sounds thrown into the mix.
You could pull a Trickster and take the sounds of screams and pull the sounds out into lower tones and use that as well.
Just not sure why they went with the malfunctioning tumble dryer / Bald break pads on a semi truck sound as the base of the music.
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Clairvoyance is hyper strong for end game, just cleanse a totem and when you get to end-game, put your key down, use the perk, then pick it back up.
It's Left behind on steroids.
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Keep Anti-Aliasing please.
Seeing lines shimmer and textures fight over pixels triggers an instinct in my brain to punch my monitor and gauge my eyes out.
There are few things worse than playing a video game without AA in my opinion, I can't stand it at all.
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Look, guys, man's gotta clean his clothes. Why do you think he wears black? Blood stains are hard to get out. Give the guy a break! #LeaveGhostFaceAlone!
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I do not find it to be a particularly well designed map for either side.
1: The map is MASSIVE - like, Red Forest levels of size, perhaps even bigger. It may not seem like it at first, but if you want to get from the back of the main building to the generator parked in the front room - you have to spend upwards of 10 or so seconds to walk there as killer. (That's nearly 46 meters!) While the direct distance is closer to 12 meters, having to walk around fences and go through several rooms and hallways severely hinders access.
2: Breakable Walls - Where are they? I thought those were supposed to be a big thing for new maps coming out. The primary method of designing loops is that a killer must preform a break action to make a loop weaker - but there are no breakable walls to truly allow this in many loops found in the houses.
3: House Infinites - Each house is designed with massively safe windows and incredibly punishing fences on the inside. A survivor vault in some areas can force the killer to take the window or legitimately abandon the chase. This was a primary issue with the first map, not sure why it's still the case. While taking killers like Nemesis, Demogorgon, Clown, or Cenobite may allow the killer to gain distance and tackle health states - I can't imagine playing this map on run-of-the-mill M1 characters. 4.6m/s is simply not enough to effectuate a hit with some of these windows and inner home loops - especially before the pallets are broken. The saving grace is that many of the pallets outside of the houses are not particularly useful and are hard to mind-game as survivors. Even the safe ones have very shallow hedges around them, making them pointless against Huntress, Executioner, and other such killers.
4: Gen Spawns - Seriously, who coded these things? It's hilariously bad for survivors, which is the only true saving grace for killer mains. I've played on this map for several hours yesterday and each match had a few generators bunched up so tightly it was hilarious. There's a gen spawn in the main building's living room - and one at it's front porch. It takes less than 2 seconds to change from pressuring one to the other. On three separate occasions, I saw these two gens spawn in conjunction with the playground gen next door as well as the neighboring backyard gen - creating an incredibly tight 4 gen situation. Pro-tip. Forget about all of the other gens as killer. Find your 3/4 gen setup and protect those only. Got a Pop? It can take over 24 seconds to walk to a generator across the way - it's not worth the time as much as 6 seconds of progress on a generator you're trying to defend. Survivors may have been given some super strong houses, but killers have been given the easiest 3-gen defense in DbD history.
5: Dead Zone Mid - There's a massive open area in the middle. Devoid of pallets and certainly devoid of generators. Killers that thrive on line of sight are going to have a picnic with this: Huntress, Nemesis, Nurse, Trickster, Plague, Deathslinger, and Executioner mains rejoice! But stealth killers and low mobility boyos are going to be slamming their fists into their keyboards. Ghosface and Onryo are the saddest little ones in the room. While half of the map being dead may make certain sense, and benefit killers - it's such a detriment to survivors that sensible lads are going to avoid it altogether. Literally. Survivors will avoid crossing the street whenever possible. The houses are incredibly powerful loops that can be chained together seamlessly, but the street has nothing of value to draw survivors out. The entire map is 3 lines of Kit-Kat with the middle one being a factory defect without a wafer, there's just nothing there to play around with. It's highly rewarding to catch survivors out in this place, but it's often more frustrating than it's worth. Especially since cocky survivors with good awareness will draw killers into dead zones to waste their time and pull them away from generators to create breathing room for their allies - meaning a survivor that starts to cross the street is more or less accomplishing the same as the ones who run into a completed gen area and hold W to the corner of the map just to waste your time.
6: God Windows? More like God Doors - The biggest problem of the houses are not the windows, contrary to popular belief. Especially when Balanced Landing is out of play, the windows are a hinderance, but not a deal breaker. At least, not by themselves. The major problem is that houses tend to have 2 doors - 2 ways to get in and out... that's it. If you are not by one of these doors, it can take several seconds to get into the building or - on the flip side - get out. 3 survivors choose to body block the main entrance? You need to get in there pronto, but hitting each one is going to take almost 10 seconds? Well, what are you going to do, go around? Going around the house can take almost 12 seconds! Upstairs chasing someone you don't care about - then get a notification that someone is working on a gen just outside the house? Have fun running the 30+m distance to get through a door. Either that, or you can run all the way to one of the windows, vault it, drop, and THEN walk around the house. There simply are not enough ways to come and go from houses - which makes the map feel so much bigger than it actually is... and matches feel much much slower than they actually are. Objective times don't change, but the time it takes you to walk from one side of a structure to another has been artificially lengthened. And to make matters worse, survivors always know where you're coming from. Trying to pressure a generator? No biggie, they know you're coming through the front door? What, don't want to use the front door and have them run out the back again? Going to have to cut them off and go to the back door to surprise them, right? Running the distance can easily give them an extra 8 seconds before you chase them away - that's a tenth of a gen for FREE.
7: Meyers Worst Nightmare - Ironically, this is probably the worst map for Meyers I can ever imagine. M1 phobic interiors, wide open areas in the mid that will cause him to instantly be spotted. 109% movement speed nightmare with the labyrinthine house design and fences. Massive dead zones that punish commitment. Safe survivor sightlines from generators in buildings, meaning you can't just walk up without them having a second or so to run. Pallet central outside that doesn't punish most killers, but will make Shape mains cry into their pillows at night. Generator locations so bad that you'd ball up your hands and cry out to God himself and ask why you weren't playing literally any other killer who could apply pressure to them. I haven't played Shape on this map yet and now I'm afraid to cue up as him in case I do. This design is, quite frankly, the worst thing for him. The only potential upside is the faster vault speed built into his T3, which would make him far more competitive in the houses that were clearly designed with inspiration from Fallout 2, because they're all Vault-City. But if you're that close, many other killers are already better options.
For the next few days, bring mobility and ranged killers for this match. You have a few seconds where survivors are forced to run towards windows - Huntress can give you a hit, Nemesis can give you a hit, Demogorgon can give you a hit, even CLOWN - in some cases - can give you a hit. The other half of the roster, however, will suffer greatly.
Good luck out there, and may God help us all!
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I do not know of a single killer where running Autodidact against them is a GOOD idea.
Besides - if we were going to talk about killers that obliterate Autodidact, Medkits, and healing perks in general - why aren't we talking about the Plague, who does this without any addons?
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I'd be 100% fine with this.
I think there should be a charm store so players can buy their desired charms with AC - or at least see the compendium of charms attained through challenges and what challenges/rifts/tomes they belong to.
Adding country flags should be super easy - and really shouldn't take all that much work overall. There just needs to be an actual financial incentive for it - ideally by encouraging people to look into the charm store.
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It's actually a well designed skin.
I hope I'm not the only one who thought the little sword was hilarious, though.
It's so cute that it has a little hilt guard - which is impractical as the sword is ink, and built into her arm!
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Isn't pig D tier?
I can understand bumping her to C tier - or even B in particular matchups. But OP? Not a chance.
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Survivors in these situations need to learn peace.
When the exit gates are at 99 or open and the end game is official... things are as they are.
Your options are:
1.) Leave while you can
2.) Gamble it all for the save.
If you leave, great! The game's over and you got away!
If you go back and die, or don't get the save you wanted - then why are you complaining? You went back into the jaws of the beast. What happens next is on you.
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I feel very bad for the developers who put a lot of effort into this music - but it absolutely must change.
There are reports of nausea and queasiness as well as headaches, making this an a physically harmful part of the game.
The team should be focused on replacing this ASAP for those who are negatively effected.
You know it's bad when Otz turns the game volume down because of the chase music.
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They turned them off for a day and suddenly people stopped complaining.
So they did what they should have done back in September 2021 and turned them off.
I'm glad they finally did - I'm just sad it took almost a year and a week of work intensive tests to finally get it done.
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It's all well and good to have representation. There are plenty of characters that would not have the same level of criticism as David, seeing as he has an ex girlfriend.
If they wanted a character to be outspokenly homosexual, there's a vast selection of options that do not have prior lore of heterosexuality.
I see what Peantis said about not locking the first LGBT+ character behind DLC, as it would seem more greedy than not - which is completely understandable. We should all commend the developers for that choice.
However, I cannot help but feel that more recent DLC characters that lack community familiarity or lore (Jonah and Elodie come to mind) which would make them much more interesting characters if such an element was added to their lore. Expanding on David's lore is a welcome addition - his romantic inclinations are a good addition, however, it seems very disingenuous towards bisexual peoples within the LGBT+ community.
You have a character that likes men and has a history of liking women, but make the choice to ignore pansexuals / bisexuals?
Are certain parts of the LGBT+ community more valuable than others? No, they are all equally important within the community. But then why bother making David Homosexual specifically when most other characters could just as easily been homosexual without lore discrepancies?
And, in the end, if they choose to make David renounce his past heterosexual relationships to embrace a homosexual one - I do not understand how this is intended to seem more genuine than designing a character as homosexual from the ground up. It does not feel that his sexuality is a retcon because it is 'lazy' or 'so much time has passed' - it feels like a retcon because another part of his lore has been completely overshadowed and cast aside. At least - from where we are now. For all we know, it will all be explained and we'll all feel silly for not giving the writers the benefit of the doubt - but it does smack of cheekiness when people are explaining away that new characters getting LGBT+ lore would be seen as lacking genuine affect or 'retconning' in place of legitimately overshadowing established lore to make room for a new direction.
I understand what the devs were going for. But I cannot for a moment believe wholeheartedly that this decision was made with careful consideration. If it was, they would have either gracefully have chosen another character - or optimized their representation by having David's sexuality reflect both his established heterosexual relationships as well as his homosexual ones.
This entire thing has blown up. Which, in all honesty, is the exact opposite of what the LGBT+ community strives for in the long run.
All in all. It's a fun game, and people really shouldn't be giving the choice as much mind as they do. David's romantic interests as a fictional character make no difference to us players, in truth. What matters is that we all love this game and the experience we all share; regardless of the race, ideology, or sexual orientation of people that we play it with - or characters that we choose to play as.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2924407#Comment_2924407
She is very fun right now. To play and to verse.
She's very fun to play when you're good at her.
She's very unfun to play when you're not good at her.
She's very fun to play against when the killer isn't all that good.
She's very unfun to play against when the killer is skilled.
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This is just one of those
"We can make both sides happy in the long run with a controversial choice, but we chose to play it safe and make everyone equally disappointed." sort of thing.
They could have overhauled boons to make them higher risk higher reward, which would overjoy survivors who love to have powerful team-wide effects - while giving them significant drawbacks that the killer could exploit to remove them from the game permanently.
Survivors are happy with the buffs and value.
Killers are happy they only need to snuff totems once and can remove it from play like a Hex.
Win win.
Easy, endless boons with very minor to mild buffs, though - killers are annoyed that they crop up, and survivors are annoyed at the lack of effectiveness.
all around meh
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This is Jonah from the King Of The Hill universe.
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She does NOT need a nerf - what she needs is a rework.
Right now, she teeters on a hyper fine edge.
For 80% of players, Nurse is incredibly punishing and super hard to get used to. Her power is thorny and unwieldy in the hands of newer players and a new survivor player vs a new nurse will win just about every time.
The disproportionate performance between the 'average' nurse player and the 'good' nurse player is staggering.
When an average player gets behind her, she can be easily punished by survivors and her power can seem unreliable at times.
But a good player can wipe the floor with survivors without breaking a sweat.
Her kit completely circumvents many parts of normal gameplay, which not only makes her incredibly strong in her 1v1, but also chokes many of the potential perks at her disposal.
There has never been an actual nurse player that ever thought 'Oh no! A pallet/window! My greatest weakness!'
There has never been a nurse that has brought Spirit Fury or Bamboozle.
There's no need.
She feels rotten to play as until you finally 'git gud', then it's hard NOT to cut players down.
Is there counterplay? Yes. But a lot of it involves stealth and breaking line of sight with complete gambles during mind-games.
She's far, far, far from balanced. The only balancing element to her is how unforgiving and punitive her power can be when execution is imperfect.
She's fine as-is where her numbers are concerned, but if we want her to be more enjoyable to learn and less of a face-stomp to play against, she needs a rework.
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I can see how it could make people ill - as it sports the same sort of strange musical cues that are used in movies for 'disorientation' scenes.
It feels like the music's trying to mess up my inner ear and make me feel dizzy or nauseous.
I know this wasn't the intent, but even when I'm unbothered, the music itself still rubs me the wrong way.
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Just got out of a match with this and was about to report it - I was hoping it was a 1 time thing, but I can second this as well.
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I remember when DS was nerfed and a particular subgroup of survivor mains complained that such a nerf made the perk 'unusable' and that nobody would use it afterwards.
It's still one of the strongest and most used perks in the game.
Haddonfield was one of the most survivor sided maps the game has ever created - no ifs and or buts.
Now that it isn't, some survivors will complain that it's 'the worst' or 'unplayable.
But just the same as it ever was, it will continue to be a good contributor to the game regardless of what the minority of survivors say.