Valik
Valik
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- Valik
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There should be unique 'fallen tree' ramps on this map, I'm convinced.
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This is super hard for me.
Best:
Resident Evil.
Got a map, an awesome killer that is both practical and super fun - a couple of good killer perks, 2 new survivors! And between them, a couple of very fun perks that make playing with friends a blast!
Worst:
A Binding Of Kin
No map. Killer was (and is) super lame in comparison to a much more exciting roster - and has very lackluster lore... and they're flat ugly. Killer perks range from meh to trash-bin. 1 survivor with eh perks.
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I love the fidelity of the models and all of the aspects revolving around the new maps - ASIDE from it being daytime.
The old maps were creepy and had an air of dread.
Personally, I do not think there should EVER be sunlight in this game.
I understand that the developers may want a little something new - perhaps they're sick and tired of making a bunch of dark grungy maps without variation, which is fair.
But it's Dead BY Daylight. All of the maps are darkened. I honestly wish it still had that gray color to it, and that the darkness of night crept into the corners as it once did in year's past.
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If anyone feels legitimate fear, anxiety, or fury from the game - they should 100% DC.
It's just a video game. Their life is more important than a silly match, we can all get along just fine and it's good that they stepped away.
There are some bad will actors who jump out at the earliest inconvenience, and they should probably re-evaluate their behavior.
As it stands, though, nobody should feel compelled to stop playing the game.
If they enjoy the experience, that's the one thing that we all have in common - a passion for the game.
The only time someone should feel encouraged to leave Dead By Daylight behind is if it is having a negative impact on their life in any way.
Unless someone is feeling emotional turmoil, our job as a community is to welcome them and steer them right - not push them away and tell them to stop enjoying something that we all love.
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Nah. If a survivor wants to be cheeky and wait it out, that's on them.
They're wasting their time.
In addition, many newer players want to use the locker to hide from a potential tunneler and suppress their grunts of pain.
We don't want to punish the lower end survivors that are trying to escape being tunneled so that we can somewhat hinder the slightly annoying survivors at higher ranks that do so blatantly.
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In truth, it wouldn't change much.
I play against SUPER good survivors, they're very intelligent and know how to budget their time, distance, health, and resources.
The problem with the perk is not that it's working, or that it's ubiquitous, the truest problem with the perk is that survivors do not use it the way it was meant to be used.
DH was meant to get you out of a dangerous position. Go for a risky unhook, dive out of the way - pick someone up after they're downed, make the killer miss - pretend to take a sacrificial hit for your friend who's being carried, make the killer eat dirt for the recovery animation and save your friend while going down.
But how is the perk ACTUALLY used? In a loop, extend the loop - not going to make it to pallet, make it to pallet - Run at the killer in the open, make them miss and begin chase with advantage instead of with certain death.
Dead Hard has EMBOLDENED survivors to MAKE PERCARIOUS PLAYS and get away for FREE.
Survivors should be INTIMIDATED and CONSIDER THE RISKS as they evaluate the DANGER.
If you killswitched DeadHard today, the next week - survivors would be dying in droves making the same moronic plays. But after they adapt, they're just going to play things more stealthy and throw pallets down WHEN THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO. Instead of greeding pallets or artificially extending chases in dead zones, they'd have to be aware of their surroundings and perhaps rely on teammates to take chases.
If the argument is that "DeadHard cannot be nerfed because survivors are too weak to get along" I'd have to disagree.
Survivor players are cunning, quick, resourceful, and talented players. Dead Hard may be a crutch for weak survivors to preform better, but the only reason good survivors take it is because it allows them to play the match a particular way. If you take DH away, the survivors will remain and they will continue to make daring escapes in spite of its absence. The perk slot is always open.
I will agree that survivors need a lot of balance changes to perks, especially the weak ones. But DH isn't the almighty perk - it's just a good one, one that Survivors can - and do - get along without. Besides, it's not as if the perk is going nowhere. It just needs a small change to cut it down to a reasonable size.
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I disagree. The skill check is the only input required for the perk - and it really isn't hard at all.
Perk's been around since the dinosaurs and it having a skill check has never been a factor in its use.
That being said, it probably shouldn't be deactivated if you miss the first time. If you miss and get hooked/unhooked again, you should still be able to use it.
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Neither.
The only reason DH is in the meta is because it is incredibly easy, guarantees value, and has an inordinate and extremely favorable time variable. (One survivor can waste additional 40 seconds of the killer's time in a match easily using this perk alone)
In its absence, it will not be replaced with an Exhaustion perk, but a value perk.
Prove Thyself, for instance, can shave a massive amount of time off of generators - if DH falls, Genrushing may become the new meta.
In truth - someone somewhere is going to find the cheeky 'Easy' combo that makes a lame perk into a meta perk when DH falls from grace.
SB may rise to the occasion, sure, but I don't buy it. The perk simply does not save enough time for the Survivor team to secure its throne as the prince to DeadHard's meta throne.
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The MMR system was not very well thought out from the drawing board.
The Developers, understandably, want a very simple and eloquent system to determine MMR - however, in practice, I'm convinced things must be far more robust.
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Just got out of a match on Eyrie of Crows.
That map is so unbelievably horrible in its design.
I Eat 2 walls to allow myself to chase in main building, I eat the pallet upstairs, I eat 4 pallets around the main building and during one of the final chases I think to myself. 'This is great! I'm losing so terribly, but they're about to throw this pallet!'
I kick the pallet - that's 6 pallets and 2 walls so far!
Finally, I have made a dead zone around the main building and can potentially win chases here! YES!
The survivor walks 4meters forward and I see that they have 2 more safe pallets lined up back-to-back with a window next to the furthest one.
.__.
I look over at the area in front of the main building.
At least more 6 safe pallets.
I just spend over 20 seconds of my entire match in kicking animations and the vast majority of the match is completely safe.
By the end of the game, there were only 2 pallets and that one breakable wall on the top floor of main still standing.
Developers, please take notes and understand that the solution to chases is NOT to drop a bunch of safe pallets everywhere. T_T
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There really needs to be a financial (BP) incentive not to do it.
Let's all be honest... it's scummy, has nothing to do with actually playing the game, is mean spirited, is a bad 'strategy', and is cheap as all hell for bloodpoints and MMR.
While we can't really do anything about it being mean, scummy, or ancillary to actual gameplay - we could find a way to doc the Killer's BP yield and/or MMR score as punitive measures.
So if a killer is standing within 4m of the hook for an extended period of time - or remains within 8m of the hook when there aren't any survivors within 24m for an extended period of time - then you start slamming them with -1,000 BP scoring events that stack.
Killers are happy playing AFK simulator if it means they get a cool 20k BP at the end, but if they get that number slashed down to 10 or even 5, they may start second guessing how they should mix up their game to, at the very least, walk away with some sort of BP reward.
In those extremely rare circumstances where the killer player doesn't even care, but wants to 100% kill one particularly infuriating survivor - I don't think they'd mind taking the BP and MMR hit for it. If anything, taking the Bp and MMR hit shows either just how scummy and 'invalid' the strategy is... while also not doing too much to actively stop it from happening.
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From what it looks like, I'd rather the Syringe lowered the Medkit's charges by 8 and only IT is used, not the entire medkit.
Syringe should give 12 seconds of Endurance and suppress blood pools for the duration.
Styptic should be the healing item - and it should take a flat 16 seconds regardless of healing modifiers.
I don't think drugs in my veins should be worried about Coulrophobia
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Try and use your rushes against wounded targets primarily - and when they are between loops, not in them.
Your power is a much greater threat when they are playing pallets!
Do what you can to angle yourself with your first rush so that you can turn quickly and have a straight shot at the pallet - survivors will have to leave the loop or race to the pallet to beat you. You eliminate the pallet, push them into the open, or get a down!
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They really need to get more creative with these things.
If Skins are supposed to be such a revenue stream for them - you'd think they'd release things with a little bit more charm to them, and a lot more frequently.
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@Seiko300 said:
I am interested in the Terminator.
NOT
The Terminator.
Beating around the bush aside, I am a huge fan of the idea of adding in the T-1000, and I am less than enthusiastic for the T-800 which I think would just be a missed opportunity.
The powers of the T-1000 are far more diverse, with an arsenal fit to be the perfect subtle hunting model of the terminator series. Being made from a "mimetic poly alloy [liquid metal]" it is unlike anything that Dead by Daylight has seen thus far in its killers. It can use its entire body for environmental analysis in multiple ways, for example, situating auditory sensors anywhere on the body making it more situationally aware and adept at tracking, it can separate pieces of itself from the main body to act as small individual units under the command of the host, like most terminators it has immense strength and speed to the point that it could throw the larger T-800 around like a ragdoll, and most impressively it has the ability to shapeshift which it uses throughout the movie in different and intelligent ways to hunt its target.
At its most basic the shapeshifting can be used to transform different parts of its body into lethal weapons. The T1000's most iconic use of this ability was to transform its entire arms into gigantic knives and other sharp instruments. It was also able to mimic the color and texture of its surroundings, allowing it to camouflage against any surface and hide in plain sight, like when it laid flat against a tiled floor and reformed into its default human shape after. Of course, most notably however, was its ability to shapeshift into other people as it could perfectly mimic human behavior and emotion, down to the very voices of its intended targets.
I would love to see the T-1000 in Dead by Daylight, I think there are a lot of ways that kind of a power set could be applied to create a unique kit for a killer. I can definitely imagine an M1 animation where a regular arm transforms into this giant silver arm-length knife blade and slashing at the backs of the victim in front of it.
I'm 100% invested in the possibility of adding the T-1000 to DBD in the future.
Why not both?
A massive chapter with 2 killers and 2 survivors - getting Sarah Connor and John Connor both. ?
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Demogorgon with STBFL.
If you're away from the hook, teleport back.
Even if they tank a hit with BT or gain distance from DS - you can shut them down with your M2.
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Behavior has two types of Killers in terms of Lore:
- Actual Homicidal Terrors
- Survivor +
That's it.
Clown, Doctor, Deathslinger, Oni - these are cold blooded (or Hot blooded) killers that have histories of death and violence. What's compelling about their lore is how it shows their twisted descent into madness and evil. Survivors ought to be afraid of them. They are not simply twisted by the Entity... they were will enough horrifying in the material plane.
Spirit, Hag, Trapper, Twins, Wraith, ARTIST - these are soft souls and gentle individuals that were pushed through very hard circumstances and were forced to adapt. We are meant not to feel fearful or horrified by them, but sympathy. They are not at all bad people, but they are victims of circumstance that the Entity has twisted into powerful killers.
If you ask me, they should push these 'Sympathetic' killers into the other category.
Killers should be horrifying and scary. Their lore should be a spooky story you tell children at bed time, no - as you worded it - "torture porn". The Hag's lore shouldn't make me feel bad for her and weep tears of empathetic sorrow - it should make my toes curl into my socks and my jaw clench as I envision her ripping my liver out and feasting on my misery and fearful screams more than my disemboweled body.
IMO, the Artist should have been a twisted birdkeeper that had some sort of avian fascination - but instead of her art being political, it should have been dark. She should have become a serial killer that used the blood of her victims to create a dense ichor that she used as ink.
Perhaps having no Tongue or arms is what was put upon her by the physical abuse of her father - and the genius of her artistry stems from her determined use of prosthetics, mouth, and feet.
And perhaps she kept crows as pets, and harbored a massive sanctuary for her lurid fascination with the species - which is Entity driven. She could use the crows as murder tools, training them to feast on her victims. Maybe she trains the crows to act as her hands and to aid in her art by training them on how to create it for her.
It would give a lot more gravity than before at the very least.
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IMO they should make it so that boon totems can be extinguished perminantly and have a very, very faint audio cue that is nondirectional. Something soft that an attentive killer would deduce 'hmmm... I'm in a boon radius'.
A survivor spends 26 seconds running around looking for a Hex, finds it - and spends 14 seconds cleansing it. The survivor has spent 40 seconds to eliminate the Hex totem FOREVER.
A killer takes 5 seconds to walk over to a boon, snuffs it, and walks back.
The killer has already wasted MORE relative time than the survivor - because the 11-12 seconds a killer spends is over 40 seconds of survivor up-time.
If a killer takes 26 seconds to find a boon totem, it is the equivalent of giving each of the 4 survivors 26 seconds of breathing time... which grants all survivors over 100 seconds. A killer that uses 26 seconds to sus out a Boon just handed the survivors enough time to complete a generator and co-op 2 health states.
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the 4% chance should never be taken out of the game and I will die on this bridge.
I could go on for a long time on the passive benefits the 4% Luck base adds to the game, or the philosophical implications of such an effect in terms of design diversity, but instead I will tell you the true - true - true reason why I will never want to see that fateful 4% leave the game.
I'm going to say this, because it's too good of a story to stay 'too personal for online'
2020, very early Pandemic time.
Locked indoors, playing games like we all do.
Playing Trapper, Pale Rose, doing pretty good.
The survivors honestly never stood a chance, I route them.
2 survivors are dead and the last two are a Yui and Jake that I haven't hooked yet, they've been stealthily doing gens.
I toy around with them in chase, but it seems like they were goofing around too much at the start to make a comeback.
After catching the Yui out, I go on to chase her Jake teammate - he's illusive, I lose him and think he's doubling back to the hook.
Feels bad, maybe I'll give Jake hatch, I'll just make sure Yui dies on hook - she's getting close to second stage.
As I approach, the Yui attempts escape and ... She FREES HERSELF!
She lands on her feet right before me and understands her predicament. She instantly drops her item at my feet for mercy.
In truth, I sure as heck am not going to hook her again - that was AWESOME! She took a last ditch gamble on that 4% chance and landed it. I'm not going to ruin that by smacking her down and putting her right back on the hook, that would just be mean spirited.
I leave her be, and she follows me around for a bit until I find Jake.
I put him down and place him on a hook. I have to shake my head at the Yui to let her know not to save her friend.
She lets me close the hatch after we find it and I escort her to the exit gates where she opens them.
We exchange jokes in the post game lobby.
She invites me into a Discord call and we start chatting - talk all night. Hop into a few matches in different games as we carry on conversation.
Call her up the next day, and the next day and the next day.
Exchange information, talking and texting every moment we can spare.
Drive upstate and hang out with her.
She moves out of state.
I fly out a couple of times to see her.
I get a ring.
Our wedding was on December 5th 2020.
We've been married for over a year.
She's my 4%.
Keep the 4% in the game.
If it were not for that, I would not have met the love of my life and found the joys of marriage and what it means to start a family.
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It's a nerf to survivors and killers alike - and takes a TON of resources to port.
I'd rather the devs take 5 minutes of time to tweak numbers on derelict perks than devote hundreds of employees and hundreds of thousands of dollars to something so niche and pointless.
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There's a primary reason killers are in 1st person - you need to accurately judge distance and tell what you're swinging at.
If Legion's body is blocking what's in front of him, how can you tell what the survivor is doing at any given time?
Survivors have contextual interaction prompts, but imagine trying to repair a moving generator by swinging at it in third person. You're bound to miss every now and again because the camera is too far away and is blocked by your body! No good :(
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I'd absolutely be down for a 10-12% increase in wiggle time, but only if survivors gained a flat 1% total progress (0.17 seconds)
Such an increase in wiggle time would be balanced if the wiggle mechanic became more dynamic:
A survivor can hit a skill check every 0.72 seconds or so (ballpark)
meaning, with a change such as this, they can reduce their wiggle timer by 1 second over 4 seconds if they hit every check. Which means, if a survivor is flawless in their skill checks, they can reduce their timer by 3 seconds after 12 seconds of wiggling.
While the wiggle bar may increase to 17, survivors capable of hitting each skill check can wiggle out in 13.5 seconds or so.
Yes, survivors can wiggle out MUCH faster, 2.5 seconds faster if they use the skill checks. But increasing the wiggle timer to 17-18 seconds by default would make the change totally worth it.
It would make hooking less of a bore and a lot more engaging, especially when you have to make a risky play for a scourge hook or work around body blocking.
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I 100% agree with the Iron Grasp part where stuns are prevented, however, I disagree with exactly how.
Here's my rendition
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Survivors you are carrying have their wiggle progress speed reduced by 15/20/25% and gain no additional wiggle progress from Great Wiggle skill checks.
When afflicted with a stun while carrying a survivor - ignore the stun effect and do not drop them. This disables the perk for the remainder of the trial.
Flavor-text: “When I felt the beast’s hand ball up against me – I knew there was no escaping.”
~
Iron Grasp is in a strange niche, but this alone will save it from obscurity. By reducing wiggle speed itself by a flat value, the perk can already increase greatly in practical value. The true change is making it so that any stun will be rendered ineffective once per trial. Being able to ignore a Pallet stun, Head On, or DS will be indispensable in certain matches. This simple change makes it a strong choice in many matches, denying a save in many circumstances. While it may not be elevated to Meta status - it becomes certainly stronger than it ever could be without a change. Nullifying this perk on a stun also makes stunning the killer a high priority to remove this perk from play, which makes engaging the killer more rewarding in the long run.
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If players were auto-DC'd after having 4 crows for longer than 15 seconds, this would basically solve everything ,especially if they made it so that DC players are replaced with bots.
Not sure about the 'Begin the end game NOW' button - because it could also be cheesed in coordination with late game builds. Bring No Way Out, NOED, and Blood Warden - bring your victim to the basement and press the button, hooking them after.
While it would be a fantastic opt-out for killers, sweatlords will use it to devastating effect precisely when the survivors are most vulnerable.
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I don't like this because it basically has no true effect.
You press the button when you want to use it.
Now, you press the button TWICE when you want to use it.
I could understand if you HAD to use it within a certain context.
'When you are put into the Injured state by any means, Dead Hard activates for 8/12/16 seconds'
Only within that window can you use the perk. Yes!
But having people press it twice doesn't make much sense.
It makes sense for Jett in Valorant, because that split second is all that matters. They're sick of her dashing to cheese ping and avoid getting headshot as a team lights her up. Literally this puts the perk on a fraction of a second delay - which is how Valorant works.
Dead By Daylight, though, making people press E twice won't change much at all, except annoy survivor mains for no reason.
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If there's ever a ranked system, the rank MUST be displayed.
Even if the numbers themselves are not shown in precise detail, at least have emblems or banners that say 'Hey, this person is Diamond II' or 'This person is Bronze IV'
Literally anything.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919359#Comment_2919359
It's either a mistake or a cheap way to create the lighting effect. Either way I hate it.
I'm just glad you said it.
I wouldn't have known what 'Crushed blacks' meant if I was asked a couple of weeks ago.
Always thought the maps looked awful, but never had the right words for it - felt like Ambient Occlusion was shoved way, way up.
But when you said it that way, you turned the lightbulb on in my head. Complete enlightenment. It's color balancing with the blacks being dragged down to the killer basement!
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@Aurelle said:
I'm bored so I'm listing some more perks I came up with. Feel free to leave your opinions/thoughts in the comments.
KILLER:
Scourge Hook: Neverending Madness - 4 random hooks will spawn as a Scourge Hook. When a survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, all generators being worked on will be faced with a very difficult skill check. Survivors that miss the skill check will scream revealing their location for 3 seconds.
Scourge Hook: Relentless: 4 random hooks will spawn as a Scourge Hook. When a survivor is hooked on a Scourge Hook, all generators that are above 60% progress are blocked for 16 seconds.
Hex: Broken Bonds - Each time you hit a survivor with a basic attack, they suffer from the Blindness, Mangled, and Exhausted status effects. This effect lasts until the Hex Totem is destroyed.
SURVIVOR
Acuteness: When you are healing another survivor or healing yourself, the Killer's Aura is revealed to you for 4 seconds, once every 20 seconds while doing the healing action.
Boon: Silent Approach - Survivors within the Boons range will be effected. Any loud noise notification made within the Boons range will be hidden from the killer. This effect persists until the Boon is snuffed.
Within Reach - Safely unhooking a survivor grants you 1 token. While injured, press the Active Ability button to activate the perk. The survivor will suffer from the Broken Status Effect for 20 seconds and then become completely healed. If a survivor is downed when the perk is activated, it's effects will be cancelled. Within Reach has a cooldown of 60 seconds after activating it.
SH:NM - I'd give this a miss because it steps on the toes of Pain Resonance. What happens if people are repairing the best generator? Is it going to explode twice while the survivors scream twice?
SH:R - Blockage is highly contextual, which may cause this perk to cannibalize other blockage perks like Dead Man's Switch and Thrilling Tremors. blocking on a Scourge Hook is not a bad idea, it just needs to be handled with care.
H:BB - Third Seal and Sloppy already accomplish the former aspects. Exhausting survivors forever based on a hex is particularly potent, so I'd assume that this alone could work as a perk. However, there is absolutely no guarantee that survivors will take exhaustion perks. It would be better if a perk like this completely disabled ALL of a survivor's perks for a few seconds after landing an attack - which would make it manageable for some survivors but shut down several others.
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A - Object Of Obsession already shows the killers aura every few seconds without having to heal. If it was a constant effect and had some sort of limited range, however, I could see this as an actual inclusion in the game!
B:SA - This is better off being a Shadow Step buff
WR: This already exists, it's called Renewal (Second Wind)!
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Eh - I like Devotion, and I believe shards should be stingy for new players and hyper abundant for experienced ones.
Show player devotion in the post game screen.
For every 100 levels, they gain a devotion title.
After leveling up past 999 your number is turned into an awesome little skull.
Leveling up grants 200 IS + 1.8 per Devotion level.
Going from Devotion 601 to 606 will take over 20,000 XP and reward enough IS to get 1 Cosmetic set
EXP needed to level has a base of 1,005 and is increased by 5 per rank. Going from 999 to CHOSEN takes 6,000xp
At max rank 'CHOSEN' or whatever, leveling up takes 6,666xp and grants 2,000 Iridescent Shards and a bonus 200,000bp
This way, players won't have a ton of cash to spend on cosmetics early, but if they play for thousands and thousands of hours - they earn the right to have enough to make their pick from the store's offerings. In addition, gaining neigh infinite BP by allowing the absolutely most seasoned of players to benefit after a bit of a grind will make the prospect of making the final push from devotion 950 to CHOSEN a huge incentive.
By showing players 'hey, you started out as a lowly WHISPERER, but if you play a LOT of our game, you can be RICH!' might be enough to pull people into playing, which may increase Behavior cosmetic sales through AC overall.
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I recently learned how to chip chart cameras and I could not agree more.
The blacks are pushed way below the floor.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2919269#Comment_2919269
Yes, and there has been very improper placement of drawbacks all over the place, especially for killer. Pop being 45 seconds (from 60), Oppression's 80-second cooldown, Dragon's Grip's 80-second cooldown, Blood Favor and Summoning Stone lasting a measly 15 seconds, Bamboozle and Crowd Control lasting a measly 16 and 20 seconds, Pinky Finger taking away 2 bottles, Engineer's Fang taking away a chain, ranged killers' reloads being so slow, etc. Survivor get way fewer of these ridiculous setbacks, with Autodidact being the only thing I can name off the top of my head, but it is a comprehensive problem with the game. Who wants to play with stuff that makes them weaker? No, we want strength increases and zero drawbacks, especially with higher rarity things.
Pop being 45 seconds is fine. 40 seconds would be good too. Nobody needs it for 60 seconds, and it's still in the meta.
Oppression needs to have a lower cooldown and a buff, yes.
Dragon's Grip needs an entire rework.
Blood Favor doesn't need much to shine. 3 more seconds and it's perfect. 15 seconds is plenty in many situations. This perk is difficult to balance because too much blockage can completely break the game.
Bamboozle's block time is fine. 16 seconds is more than enough when paired with the vaulting speed increase.
Crowd Control's problem isn't the block time alone, it needs to be reworked.
Pinky Finger should only be 1 bottle or be reworked. Holding 2 bottles and having the option to increase capacity is just as bad as old IR head.
Engineer's Fang was broken and the nerf was well warranted. It's still incredibly strong as it is, they may have to add another layer of drawbacks to make it balanced.
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Yeah, you're right. There are no drawbacks to survivor perks.
Except when you remember that survivors have no abilities - the perks are all that they have. While they hold the momentum early, they are not the deciding factor as to the shift in the game's dynamics.
Mostly in part because, until recently, they have not had abilities that, themselves, require Drawbacks.
in truth, every survivor perk has a MAJOR drawback built in - it takes 1 of 4 slots.
Deja Vu has no inherent Drawbacks to balance it because, well, someone took it instead of Borrowed Time.
Power Struggle is a fantastic Survivor perk... when it occurs in a match. But what's the drawback? The Drawback is you can take the perk in tons of matches and have it sit idle as a dead slot - adding no value to your games. If you pair it with Flip-Flop to make it happen a lot more frequently, then you're using 2 entire perk slots for an event that may or may not work out. THAT is the drawback.
The major Drawback of survivor perks is CONTEXT. The major drawback of killer perks is NUMERICS.
This is the truth, and it's a lot more important to understand that this is an asymmetrical game - meaning the balance incentives are completely different.
It's a lot more effective to explain the root of truth than to remind you about survivor perks like No Mither, Deliverance, Inner Strength/Healing, For The People, Resilience, Second Wind/Renewal, Fast Track, Lucky Break, Sole Survivor, Left Behind, Slippery Meat, Mettle Of Man, Distortion, or Decisive Strike... which are ALL survivor perks with baked-in drawbacks.
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I actually currently like it as it is.
I'd prefer having all of my perks tier 3 instead of having a massive library of tier 1s and 2s - the thought of having to roll a 1/93 gamble 3 TIMES to get the perk I want is insane.
On paper, there are 104 survivor perks and 93 killer perks.
In REALITY, there are 312 survivor perks and 279 killer perk 'pieces' that you collect.
The problem the Devs face is that if it was true RNG, instead of having a 1/104 chance of the survivor perk that you want being the next 'chosen one' for your web, you have a 1/312 chance of getting what you want randomly - which makes the grind a LOT worse. And if you have to do that several times, you may have to chew through over 900 bloodwebs for even a CHANCE to get the perk you're looking for, which is extremely disheartening for those who are unlucky.
If you make it so that survivors have to get ALL tier 1 perks before truly getting Tier 2/3 options, you just added a phantom requirement.
Now, you don't even have a 1/312 chance of getting the perk you want to use - you have a 1/312 chance of getting a tier 1, then you have to chew through 311 more webs before your desired perk is available for upgrade.
By making perks 'the CHOSEN one' you reduce the grind by more than 1/3rd - because the web tries to offer you higher levels when it can, allowing you to potentially secure a perk that you like and build it up to rank 3 over the course of a few bloodwebs.
If you don't have all the Killers available, let's just say you have only 50 Killer perks available:
You want Save The Best For Last.
With the old system, there's a 1/50 chance the perk is selected as the 'chosen' perk. Once you see this in your web - if you grab it, you can rank it up to 3 over the next 10 webs without a sweat. You can easily attain the perk you want in 30-40 webs with a pinch of luck.
If it was RNG, you'd have to gamble to find all 3 'pieces' of the perk across 150 webs.
If you had to unlock all available Tier 1 options, you'd have to go through 150 webs just to have the OPTION to start looking through it, and perhaps get it to tier 3 by web 180.
While imperfect, the current system lowers the potential grind by over 80%
This has the additional side effect of not making bloat AS big of a deal.
If everything was RNG, or prioritized Tier 1 perks, players would be incentivized NOT to get all of the chapters or unlock all of the game's content - as it would clutter their chances of getting the concentrated 'good' content.
Trickster and Yun Jin come out... is it worth paying money for 3 sub-par survivor perks? As it stands, that adds 9 'perk pieces' to the web.
Having the web select one of these at random and then spoon feed you the other 2 pieces means the odds of this perk becoming part of your web or kit is 1/3.
If the web was completely random, this means you may have to chew through ! 9 ! more webs to get to the content you need.
Suddenly, fun perks like Distraction or Built To Last don't seem so nice - because, with the K-pop DLC, they muddy up your web with !! 24 !! webs worth of perks.
3 DLC purchases can extend your core grind by almost 50% of the TOTAL road to prestige with an RNG model.
Your creativity is admirable, don't get me wrong.
It's just that the system, as it is currently designed, cuts out a massive portion of the grind and doesn't make players feel disadvantaged for actually participating in the many good chapters that this game has to offer.
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A 'run at the killer to stun them' perk would be interesting, but my opinions are the following:
1.) It should not look like this, it needs to be balanced differently.
2.) It should not be Dead Hard.
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I, personally, REALLY like this!
My one issue is, I've been playing the game for over 1,400 hours.
Newer players are going to feel like abject trash if this comes out, because their variety is in the dumpster - and so the pool of perks to challenge new players with is relegated to the sucky ones mostly.
'Play a Killer match with Monstrous Shrine' is going to be the bane of every good-willed killer in the game and train a lot of new players to both hate the perk and camp the basement.
Until the base perks get substantial reworks, I cannot see something like this having a positive effect on newer players.
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1st off - I 100% agree with you. You took the words out of my mouth in many ways!
Your idea to make DH use Deep Wounds though... Clever, but a bit overkill, IMO.
Deep Wounds is a very VERY good place to start. It means a survivor has a little 15s 'time out' before being able to do much else, and means that if they gain any health states mid-chase from Adrenaline or anything along those lines, they are not restored to Healthy. It also means that the perk cannot be used if you already have Deep Wounds - which makes it completely useless against particular killers in and out of certain circumstances.
Clever, and strong. I like it.
However, I don't think it solves the problem of cost. 15s is a very short time to pay for using such a powerful perk. If a survivor extends their chase by 30 seconds if you commit, but if you leave, they take a 15s mend (or less with help) it still beats the power of everything else.
It's hyper strong in some cases, but barely a consideration in others.
So - it's balanced and good, why do I disagree?
Broken.
If the perk made someone Broken for 60 seconds, it could also insinuate the following:
You can't use the perk again until you're healthy.
Making a survivor live with the consequences of a miniature and temporary No-Mither (Without the buffs) is super strong for good killers, but is also something that is evenly costly across survivors regardless of skill.
In a coordinated high skill SWF team, Deep Wounds is a cakewalk - it's gone in 8 seconds and the person is back to full health within 16-20 seconds of leaving chase. But noob survivors that try to use this solo are going to get wrecked by it - mistiming their Deep Wounds is going to make them accidentally kill themselves - make them take longer than 11 seconds of mending only to be interrupted due to bad positioning. OR the 'drawback' is nullified because the killer predicts the ability and knocks the user down. No true drawback if you got knocked into Dying anyhow!
With broken, you can't use other Broken perks like Deliverance or Second Wind/Renewal. In the current healing meta, you can't run to a Boon and get topped off. You can't make a daring getaway with a medkit and be good as new in under 10 seconds. You cannot Heal for 32 seconds with self care then hop on a generator for 8 and have the perk back and ready to use the next time you see the killer. With Broken - you have 1 SHOT and you have to make it count. And if you do or don't succeed, you have to live with that choice.
Why is broken less 'overkill'?
Seasoned survivors know how to play while injured. Newer survivors have a hard time.
By making this perk trigger broken - it creates a soft incentive for the best players NOT to use it, but also teaches newer players to make the most with what they have if they risk taking the perk.
New survivors get into lobbies where nobody does generators, and where the greatest enemies in the match are teammates that fail to tackle objectives. Giving those kinds of players dozens upon dozens of Mend timers can obliterate them. Making this perk useless against Killers like Legion or Deathslinger - while also rendering Soul Guard useless and turning Borrowed Time into a mutual exclusion kerfuffle - seeing as how the DH bringer has no control over it in match. Deep Wounds eats up newer survivors and doesn't do much for experienced ones - but also is completely stomped out by the worst DH offender - SWF bully squads.
Broken makes it so that survivors cannot heal - which limits the perk's usage. Newer survivors are encouraged to get back objectives instead of using Self Care in a corner, they have nothing better to do than to tackle objectives. Being Broken does not fight against itself, which means although the ability cannot be used against Plague or while carrying Victor - it is generally a lot more open to being played with killers while also only being exclusive with self-controlled perks - aside from Forced Penance, which would instantly be soft buffed by this.
The best thing of all, while top level players are the most comfortable being wounded - they are also the most valuable while healthy. Denying SWF bully squads the ability to quickly recover and tank hits for one another is devastating. Having this escape perk compete for perk slots with For The People, Deliverance, or Renewal/Second Wind makes it a tough choice for bully teams that heavily prioritize gaining and swapping health states with Broken perks in a more direct way than gambling it in chase with the killer.
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TL;DR:
I love your idea.
I think it should just cause users to be Broken.
Deep Wounds hurts new / average players a lot but hardly phases high ranks.
Broken can be managed by new / average players and makes it a lot less attractive at high ranks.
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Everything has a cost.
Cost is a core pillar of balance.
If something is imbalanced because there is a lack of cost, you implement a form of cost to restore balance - directly or indirectly.
Adding drawbacks to perks and items are completely normal. Drawbacks, by merit, are not the issue. However, Drawbacks are the pointed head of that Balancing teeter totter - sometimes the Drawbacks can be far too great and make the proverbial seesaw dip the other way.
Earlier, Mr. Devil pointed out quite correctly how Hilbilly has addons that sport significant drawbacks and how poor these items are. However - the problem is not the drawbacks themselves, it is the metric of balance that they insinuate into the match.
How many times do you ever get blinded as a killer? Is it worth POTENTIALLY shaving off a fraction of a second worth of time in those circumstances?
Back-revving is a strategy, so I understand lowering movement speed to 4.4 while boosting charge speed. However, the amount of charge speed increased does not justify the monumental drawback of -0.2m/s on your base speed.
The problem is not the pivoting triangle used to strike a balance between the two extremes of a line - but rather, its proper or improper placement.
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While fun, I'd like to see this as a mechanic that a certain killer can exploit rather than an addon.
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In truth - it should be given a complete rework.
It's not BAD as is, but it does need a little TLC from the devs to encourage it into the right position.
For Instance, if it's supposed to make the killer a speedy chase ender, it needs a rework.
if it's supposed to force survivors out of the match and punish them for wavering at exit gates, it needs a rework.
if it's supposed to encourage survivors to cleanse bones or face dire consequences - it needs a rework.
Either way, I think it may be seen a nerf in some light.
If the devs decided 'We just want this to be the 'do bones or else this Hex activates' perk - it should look something like this:
- When the final generator is completed, all dull totems in the match are lit. All healthy survivors are Injured and all survivors are Broken. They are Doomed for 160 seconds, lowered by 25 seconds for each additional dull totem turned into a Hex. When the Doomed timer reaches 0 - survivors are put into the Dying state regardless of their health status
Or something like
- When the final Generator is completed, the this perk activates and the exit gates are not powered. Until this Hex is cleansed, survivors cannot interact with the exit gates
Pretty strong options, right?
But then you remember that Option 1 doesn't grant you movement speed, and - while effectively lowering all survivors to a singular health state, it lacks all surprise. This perk forces survivors to leave the trial ASAP and allows 1 hit downs, but without the element or surprise or the speed boost - many will consider it a nerf.
Then you look at Option 2 and Think - dang, this is the strongest end game prevention perk. Pair it with Remember Me and No Way Out, and you can hold survivors in the match forever! That will keep them in the trial and let you rack up the kills! Until you realize that you don't have 1 hit kills, has no speed buff to make chases more potent, and lacks the element of surprise - many will consider it a nerf.
There are a lot of directions you can go with the perk. But putting it into a specific role will likely make it generally less effective at the one or two of the things that it currently adds to the game.
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This is a good question! But I think it answers itself with the reasons given. I don't think it's its' BEST perk, but it is absolutely up there for Dmi personally.
Here's the 8 things you stated, but may have been mislead about:
1.) Having a built in retention for the Obsession makes STBFL better on ANY killer with a special attack - even on Pig, which is never as pretty. M1 dependent killers such as Hag, Wraith, or Meyers himself gain the worst performance - so this means that the Demogorgon is one of the killers with a VERY convenient workaround for this powerful perk's biggest drawback. While other killers like Cannibal or Piggy have long wind-ups that can make their powers unreliable to use in a pinch - and other killers such as Huntress or Nemesis rely on skillshots (which can miss) that encourage them to play with range rather than their power, Demi finds a very happy in-between where it's highly encouraged to get up in survivor's faces and smack them... but charging up for an M2 isn't out of the picture in most cases.
2.) The Combination M1/2 wombo is incredibly oppressive - especially because it allows you to lead with your weakest range - highest confidence attack. While you can lead with your Shred, survivors can play around it and bait it out in many cases - which is highly punitive. A healthy survivor that sees a shred has a lot of confidence to attempt such things - because there is no instant risk to them; they can take the hit if you land it, but they gain incredible value if they force you to miss - win/win. Once the perk is realized, people will do everything they can to exploit an M2 in order to maximize on time and distance where possible. That being said - on an INJURED survivor, the M2 game changes up a bit, because they act a lot more predictably. An injured survivor cannot tank hits - so they run to pallets and vaults to evade the combination, which funnels them into a very strict pathing situation. The M1/2 combo allows for the Demogorgon to put a Healthy survivor into the Dying state in about 6 seconds. Even if survivors use a Dead Hard to evade the combo - it took anywhere between 3-10 seconds, which means that this perk on Demogorgon's kit can cut out anywhere from 20-35 seconds of chase - which is greater overall value than Pain Resonnance/Pop combo, which grants about 26 seconds per hook. The ability of this perk to allow the Demogorgon to punish out-of-position survivors and chew through their resources cannot be understated.
3.) Popular streamers have used it because, well, it works! It's especially good for what streamers are looking for: Flashy plays. Demi has map pressure, but his shred is incredibly good at shutting down 'gentle' loops - like old Haddonfield fences. Imagine STBFL on a Long jungle gym where a survivor greeds the pallet. They get hit, they don't throw - they think they're going to run the length of the wall and go for another 20-30 second loop. But by the time they start, the streamer rounds the corner - charging their shred... a brutal punctuation to the exchange. Very flashy, yes. But this perk - on its own - turns the Demogorgon into a complete and total Gym killer against healthy survivors in addition to unhealthy ones. It's flashy and allows those tight M1s in loops to turn into certain death situations for survivors - even if they have a pallet in play.
4.) The perk feels good in part because of theatrics and pallets, IMO. Pallets are the bane of killer's enjoyment. STBFL doesn't speed up how fast you eat them up, but it allows you to get to chewing faster, even on a down. That and - in addition - Demi's on-hit animation has him literally screaming. This perk turns his overly dramatic crying-to-the-heavens scream into a quick one. It feels nice and keeps the pace going, and can even help you cut down pallets faster. Overall, if you use this perk a lot in the game my stringing together M1s and M2s - you can save upwards of 10 seconds in animation time alone each and every match. Getting an extra 10 seconds for free is always a nice feeling. When those 10 seconds are allowing you to shred would-be-saviors within 1 second of downing someone, it feels even better.
5.) The perk has the basic compliment with the Demogorgon's greatest weakness - cocky survivors. When healthy survivors are faced, they tend to be excited to juke a demi out of an M2. And when they're at a range where they cannot juke it - they are typically able to get smacked by a lunge as well. Cocky survivors will attempt to convince you to shred at a window only to bail at the last possible second to prolong the chase - allowing the Demi to continue pressure by opening up M1 as a superior alternative to initiate chase, it makes him a lot more attractive. Example: an healthy survivor is playing super cocky in a loop you both know they are about to get hit at - they clearly have Dead Hard, what do you do? You don't wind up a shred, because even if you close the distance, they can nullify that and put you way out of position - and it will take you a finnicky second to get back into chase again. You can't just 'normal' M1 them because they can gain distance. But with this perk, the M1 is the superior option. Once they are knocked into the injured state - they are faced with a predicament, do they Dead Hard to escape your speedy reprisal and eat your M2 at the end of it - or do they 'save' their Dead Hard and run the risk of you landing an M1 again? By letting the Demogorgon keep up the pressure in addition to his base power, it allows the killer to remain a significant threat to shut down cocky survivor plays where - previously - you might have to risk an M2.
6.) While the perk takes awhile to start working, so does Devour in that sense. You're not going to see the value of Hex Ruin until mid to late game either. Punctuating chases upwards of 30 seconds sooner and chewing through health states to the point where protection hits are suicidal is incredibly powerful. It takes time to ramp up because in game time, you can easily save over 90 seconds of potential chase time. While this perk has this value, most killers can only utilize it partially - or have bad synergies with it. Neither Michael, Cannibal, Nemesis, nor Huntress can boast of these numbers. In conjunction with your shred - this perk alone can save you more time and effort than Pop/PainResonance/Thanataphobia/CorruptIntervention combined in one build. Pop steals 20 seconds away from survivors - but killer time is 1/4 as valuable, meaning it effectively saves you, the killer, 5 seconds per use. Even in very well run games - these perks in concert will be lucky to save you, the killer, 70 seconds. On Demogorgon, STBFL alone can save you 90 without breaking a sweat, especially against meta players. That is, naturally, if it is used optimally.
7.) Black Heart does a fantastic job of keeping Demo in the fight - but it augments his M2. The major drawback with M2 is that survivors do what they can to counter it at later levels of play. In many cases, it is a luxury that is ill afforded. If you wind up to shred on EVERY attack - the precious fractions of a second you've saved on the recovery animation you've already spent winding up your shred to begin with and... well... let's get to the bottom of it. The two are not mutually exclusive. Why not just take both? Besides, perks are not addons. I don't think anyone would say that Spirit's Mother/Daughter ring is superior to Corrupt Intervention, because one's an addon and the other is a perk. Just bring both.
8.) You say that it can backfire when survivors understand that the perk is in play, do you mean that they scatter on pickups? Don't take protection hits? The Obsession gets in your face? Are you implying that survivors will often times assume M1s and become emboldened in longer loops? I legitimately don't understand this one - but I think it's because we're coming at things from two different angles. On one hand, if your goal is to make STBFL work for you, and your primary objective is stacks - absolutely this perk can stab you in the back like my ex. But if you play the game normally and reserve M2s for loops and Obsessions, the perk can grow organically over the match and make some impressive returns. If you prioritize this perk - it's no good for you. But if you use the threat of its existence to put survivors in bad places, they will crumble before you - ESPECIALLY when they are least expecting it. Treat the perk less like Devour Hope and more like Spirit Fury. Don't think about it, just let it happen naturally - because when survivors find out it's in play, it's already too late.
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@dreadnod said:
Idea! how about you guys introduce Survivor and Killer NPCS! that would really cut down on wait time.
You should 100% post this in Feedback and Suggestions. I'm sure the community would love to chat about ideas like that!
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I'd just say, just make it only work outside of chase.
That would come in super clutch, but having it disabled in chase would bring home the balance.
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Description: “You’re light on your feet and won’t be caught flat-footed.”
Scratch marks are visible for 2/3/4 seconds shorter than normal. Emit no footstep audio while outside of chase.
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Easy Peasy. Not uber broken, but no slouch. If you lose the killer or try walking around them to avoid chase - they won't be able to follow the pitter patter. Scratch marks are only truly effective for 3-4 seconds instead of 7. Sign me up.
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It depends on the killer and what you see in the game.
For instance, if it's Ruin and you guys are tackling gens pretty well - don't bother.
If it's a spirit or an Artist - Don't Bother.
If it's something like Crowd Control of Blood Favor - don't worry too much about it just yet.
Haunted Grounds or Pentimento at the wrong time can route your team - and it isn't worth the time to chew through an Undying or Ruin when your team already has things pretty well in hand.
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I honestly believe CoH has a large part to do with this resurgence in scummy killer behavior.
The perk encourages survivors to take protection hits and trick the killer into lacking commitment. Killers that lack commitment are delivered incredible punishment.
If survivors didn't have a 'wow, you left me alone for 20 seconds, I'm back to full health and ready to GO!' you may see killers far more willing to let wounded survivors out of their sight.
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People who are asking for this map to be deleted need to simmer down.
It's not the best, but it can be fixed with 2 minor map changes.
It doesn't need to be split in half, reworked or, God forbid, DELETED.
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I honestly think all they need to do is make it so that he is Undetectable while he is using his power, but put a hard 8 second cooldown on using his power after it ends.
Perhaps make it so that hitting a survivor with Judgement Of The Damned triggers 24 seconds of Undetectable or something. Anything.
Making the Cages Scourge Hooks kinda defeats the points IMO. You already shouldn't be bringing hook perks on PHead if you're good with going for cages. The beauty of the killer is that you don't take hook perks on him. Using an IR item so that you can 'finally' take a bunch of hook perks is demonstrative of his core design, and not only creates anti-synergy with perks that work well with him, but also lacks synergy with the correct mindset when opting to play him.
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I agree completely.
It can be a little 'trollish' to set up a survivor and catch them off guard with a perk like Plaything in the trial, but it's overall very, very weak and you're better off taking brown add-ons.
It wouldn't be so bad if it was a valuable trade - perhaps something like gaining wall-hacks with an incredible 24 second aura read or anything like that. But as it stands, if it triggers while you're in chase... too bad, the survivors got it off (Thanks for the loud noise notifacation, game, but I could already see that they removed it on my HUD) and if you don't take the time to watch them for a couple of seconds, their aura fades away.
It really needs to be given another pass.
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Bond would cannibalize other information perks.
Red herring needs to move in another direction, like creating more audio cues for different triggers.
Camaraderie/kinship needs a complete rework, it cannot work well as it is.
Mettle of man cannot be given easily because it can be easily abused.
Poised should grant a more powerful buff, not benefit others - as it goes against the spirit of the perk.
Aftercare should 100% not manifest on protection hits, but should have alternate ways of distributing value between affected survivors to further encourage passive altruism. Jeff's perks are not aggressive, they are passive. Like, after you exit chase - all survivors affected by this perk see each other's auras for 12 seconds. Making it a tiny Kindred that triggers whenever you lose the killer or get downed.
Killer perks:
Brutal 35% might be a bit much - but I LOVE having it pick up and drop survivors faster. Not only is this needed in the game, but it also melds well with Trapper's other perks.
Mad grit should do something else. It's intended as a surprise - picking up survivors in almost half the time gives the perk away, which is the last thing you want. You want to trick survivors into taking protection hits to find value - not advertise the perk to them so that they play safe around your range and render the perk useless.
Knock out is right on the money. it should Incapacitate survivors - and Incapacitated survivors should be prevented from leaving the match.
Unrelenting CANNOT. It used to do this, however - it stacked with STBFL and made M1's into 'machine gun' melees. 70% reduced on-hit cooldown was a bit much... and it may have even been more. Unrelenting should seek other means to make itself useful other than taking STBFL's thunder wholesale.
Enduring SHOULD! I'm not sure why this isn't the case. While perks like DS and Head On are well balanced in terms of stunning strength - bringing an entire perk to mitigate stuns begs for action on behalf of such things.
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Forget about it.
Just make it so that his passive and active abilities outside of his TP increase with how many gens are done.
You may lose your TP by the end of the game, but your base numbers are going to more than make it one hell of an exit!
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@Heartbound said:
I'd echo keeping the medkits. The iri medkit add ons aren't super awesome. I usually just toss it on someone I rescue from the hook or if I lose the killer after a chase. It's good obviously, but a green medkit heals you faster than the syringe and if you escape you keep the medkit.
@GoshJosh said:
I don’t get why this and the Styptic Agent still consume the medkit upon use after their nerfs. Brand New Part used to do the same thing, but now just consumes itself. And all add-ons are lost regardless of the outcome of the trial for survivors without Ace in the Hole anyways. Plus it reveals to an attentive killer that it was just used, possibly negating its usability.
Survivors should get to keep their medkits when using these add-ons. They are otherwise fine.
I love the idea of keeping the medkit after!
Do you think it would be just as fair if the syringe didn't destroy the medkit, but it lowered the charges by 8 or something like that?
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@archive0seeker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2909775#Comment_2909775
I could believe that, especially due to the fact that he was able to behead one with a gold bat.
but that could mean that the beings themselves are weak or they really are hallucinations.
Hallucinations of any form are just as strong and dangerous as the mind that makes them.