What do YOU think about CoH now?

Raccoon

Personally, it's more or less the same on both sides - The nerf was negligible, imo

humanbeing1704

Still gonna be ass to play against and will still hope it gets gutted

DragonMasterDarren

COH should be either be a healing boost or a team-wide self care, not both

sizzlingmario4

It’s not being nerfed the right way. Unlimited team-wide selfcare is still unlimited team-wide selfcare.

humanbeing1704

@DragonMasterDarren said:

COH should be either be a healing boost or a team-wide self care, not both

Should've been that from the start a teammate aultrism boon

mistar_z

Ultimately inconsequential. its best its only 3 seconds more of healing healing, and at worst its like 1.6 seconds more. due to how the bonus speeds interact with other bonuses.

1. the % speed bonus should only apply when healing each other,
2. the bonus speed should not stack with medkits, other perks, addons
3. when self healing there is no bonus. it should heal at the same speed as self care
4. only the original boon liter should get the bonus if they insist on keeping the bonus speed.
5. or maybe just not make it unlimited to relit or put a really long cooldown if it gets snuffed, that way, there is actually a strategic reason for the killer to go out of their way to leave gens and patrol setup to go and hunt the boon down.

[Deleted User]

I don't think the healing speed was the problem. Unlimited self-heals can create a spacing issue that a killer can't reasonably resolve. It doesn't matter if the heal takes 10 or 16 or 22 seconds. The issue is that the boon is on the opposite end of the map from the gens or on the second story, and that the killer has to throw the game to snuff it only for it to be re-lit an infinite number of times.

Survivor perks are hard. CoH doesn't make a huge difference in most matches. But you still have to consider what a perk is going to do in the hands of players that are really good and have good game sense. Then CoH becomes broken.

Zeidoktor

@mistar_z said:

Ultimately inconsequential. its best its only 3 seconds more of healing healing, and at worst its like 1.6 seconds more. due to how the bonus speeds interact with other bonuses.

1. the % speed bonus should only apply when healing each other,
2. the bonus speed should not stack with medkits, other perks, addons
3. when self healing there is no bonus. it should heal at the same speed as self care
4. only the original boon liter should get the bonus if they insist on keeping the bonus speed.
5. or maybe just not make it unlimited to relit or put a really long cooldown if it gets snuffed, that way, there is actually a strategic reason for the killer to go out of their way to leave gens and patrol setup to go and hunt the boon down.

#4 is the only one I don't see as a possibility since it runs contrary to how Boons otherwise work (go into Boon, get Boon effect)

My own thought has been have it buff healing Skill Checks rather than healing speed directly. Still offers a boost to healing but not one nearly as powerful as a straight speed boost.

HaunterofShadows

I like it

Kiridus

The change is good, but the main problem with CoH was that every Survivor, within its vicinity, had free Self-Care and kind of Botany Knowledge, essentially giving them six perks.

Will the perk be more bearable now? Yes. Will it still be really annoying? Probably also yes.

Aurelle

It's ok, but the healing speed wasn't the issue, it was the fact that it gave all survivors infinite self care.

Raccoon

@Aurelle said:

It's ok, but the healing speed wasn't the issue, it was the fact that it gave all survivors infinite self care.

Yeah - nerfing the speed doesn't really do anything...the healing is usually done far away enough from the killer for a few seconds to be negligible.

catkillsmouse

They also seemed to fix something in the audio so I can actually hear where it is. Seems good now.

MikaelaWantsYourBoon

It is early but i liked. Perk is still strong but i did not felt it is op anymore. But we need more time for see.

FeelsBadMan

Its absolute garbage in soloq now - better off running selfcare since it is the exact same speed now (it even says Self-Care when selfhealing in COH now LMFAO). Probably still decent in SWF tho.

dugman

@[Deleted User] said:

I don't think the healing speed was the problem. Unlimited self-heals can create a spacing issue that a killer can't reasonably resolve. It doesn't matter if the heal takes 10 or 16 or 22 seconds. The issue is that the boon is on the opposite end of the map from the gens or on the second story, and that the killer has to throw the game to snuff it only for it to be re-lit an infinite number of times.

Survivor perks are hard. CoH doesn't make a huge difference in most matches. But you still have to consider what a perk is going to do in the hands of players that are really good and have good game sense. Then CoH becomes broken.

Healing speed is vital. If the heal took 60 seconds nobody would use it since you'd be throwing the game trying to heal yourself that long. If it took 10 seconds it would be way too fast. That number makes all the difference between the perk being overpowered, ok, or useless.

I don't know if the new version with the patch today is good, bad, or in the middle but I can definitely say that exactly how long it takes to heal using that Boon is extremely important.

P.S. I only played one match today, the opponents had Circle of Healing equipped but I have no idea if they even placed it or used it, they misplayed a bit and I got a 4k with Sadako.

Nathan13

So far I think COH is in a better spot, but it’s only day one so we need to wait a few more days to see if it needs anymore changes or not.

TheArbiter

I have no problem with how COH is or was, but boons absolutely should not be re-lightable infinite # times

Barbarossa2020

The issue with CoH is it's endless.

That's always been in the issue. It needs a set amount of charges per bones then it fizzles and can't be rekindled.

Easy, fair.

cannonballB

@Barbarossa2020 said:

The issue with CoH is it's endless.

That's always been in the issue. It needs a set amount of charges per bones then it fizzles and can't be rekindled.

Easy, fair.

This. All of this.

SirCracken

@Raccoon said:

Personally, it's more or less the same on both sides - The nerf was negligible, imo

It's still broken. But at least Legion can now hard counter it.

WishIcouldmain

@SirCracken said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/320776/what-do-you-think-about-coh-now

It's still broken. But at least Legion can now hard counter it.

Good amount of killers can deal with it

Marcavecunc

The problem wasn't with the speed bonus, it was with the fact they could reboon instantly.

Boons need either

A) A cooldown

You can't reboon a totem if your previous totem has been snuffed by the killer

or

B) Tokens

You have X/Y/Z tokens for your boon. Boons all share the same tokens, up to the max value.So a level 1 boon paired up with a level 2 boon would get the X tokens value. Not additive. Total. Like,. 1/2/3 tokens... Example level 1 boon with level 2 boon would get 2 tokens. Max value.

Laluzi

It's not as good as it used to be, but BHVR keeps missing the point about why it's such a big deal, and they keep taking the simple route with its nerfs instead of listening to community feedback and trying to work something out.

Slowing down the heals doesn't change the dynamic that infinite self-care for the price of 1/16 perk slots creates, or that snuffing is almost never worth it and that survivors have bought time for their team if the killer dedicates more than 3.5 seconds to locate and snuff the boon. Having a healing station up that can never be permanently removed still hurts hit and run killers and still turns 3-gen scenarios into a lose-lose. The extra 8 seconds buys more time for the killer and slow down the game somewhat, but even now, CoH is an incredibly good perk that wins games and I see it everywhere. I don't hate it as much as I used to, sure, but I also might just be resigned to the death of hit and run at this point after months of CoH gameplay. The only thing that's genuinely changed with the healing speed nerf is that the 'drop pallets and heal in the killer's face' strategy doesn't work anymore, and that should never have been a thing to begin with.

Marcavecunc

@Laluzi said:

It's not as good as it used to be, but BHVR keeps missing the point about why it's such a big deal, and they keep taking the simple route with its nerfs instead of listening to community feedback and trying to work something out.

Slowing down the heals doesn't change the dynamic that infinite self-care for the price of 1/16 perk slots creates, or that snuffing is almost never worth it and that survivors have bought time for their team if the killer dedicates more than 3.5 seconds to locate and snuff the boon. Having a healing station up that can never be permanently removed still hurts hit and run killers and still turns 3-gen scenarios into a lose-lose. The extra 8 seconds buys more time for the killer and slow down the game somewhat, but even now, CoH is an incredibly good perk that wins games and I see it everywhere. I don't hate it as much as I used to, sure, but I also might just be resigned to the death of hit and run at this point after months of CoH gameplay. The only thing that's genuinely changed with the healing speed nerf is that the 'drop pallets and heal in the killer's face' strategy doesn't work anymore, and that should never have been a thing to begin with.

Preach on!

A permanent healing station is broken.

F60_31

Nothing really changed.

Valik

This is just one of those

"We can make both sides happy in the long run with a controversial choice, but we chose to play it safe and make everyone equally disappointed." sort of thing.

They could have overhauled boons to make them higher risk higher reward, which would overjoy survivors who love to have powerful team-wide effects - while giving them significant drawbacks that the killer could exploit to remove them from the game permanently.

Survivors are happy with the buffs and value.

Killers are happy they only need to snuff totems once and can remove it from play like a Hex.

Win win.

Easy, endless boons with very minor to mild buffs, though - killers are annoyed that they crop up, and survivors are annoyed at the lack of effectiveness.

all around meh

GrimReaperJr1232

The actual issues with the perk still haven't been addressed, and the nerf was a waste of time.

Ghoste

Personally, I've stopped running it as a solo. I'd rather bring a medkit and free up the 4th perk slot for DS/BT.

ThatOneDemoPlayer

@FeelsBadMan said:

Its absolute garbage in soloq now - better off running selfcare since it is the exact same speed now (it even says Self-Care when selfhealing in COH now LMFAO). Probably still decent in SWF tho.

It's still one of the best SoloQ Perks.

CoH is still faster than Self-Care.

Self-healing with CoH always said "Self-Care"

Raccoon

After a few days....

Still seeing it EVERY game.

Ula

@DragonMasterDarren said:

COH should be either be a healing boost or a team-wide self care, not both

Or at least, not apply the speed boost on unlocked selfcare.

Sumnox

Basically useless now when you can just bring Self Care.

Mint_

Its annoying to face as killer and boring to use as survivor. I honestly dont know how they could fix it to make it a fun and balanced perk without completly reworking it. Maybe just remove the self care option from it completly and insted make it only boost healing speeds? I still feel like that would be a waste of perk slots as you could just bring desperate measures or botany knowledge.

Blueberry

Nothing really changed, still way too strong and in every game. It's still making hit and run killers/play styles unviable.

Annso_x

I think the speed nerf wasn't what was needed, and ultimately didn't change anything for SWF, and not much for solo q. I explained more in detail what i think is wrong with it here :

@Annso_x said:

CoH has been nerfed twice already, but people are still very much complaining about it, the reason for this being that nerfing the healing speed wasn't the solution because it wasn't the problem.

People complain a lot more about CoH than they do other boons, it's not because the others are bad (far from it), but because the way they're used differ from CoH. While I'm assuming the devs figured what made CoH too op was its purpose, healing, and tried to fix it by nerfing the speed, it didn't stop people from complaining or survivors from using it (even if solo q did suffer a bit from the nerfs).

I - The problem

The difference between CoH and the other boons isn't the purpose of the perk (exponential is also about healing, i haven't seen half as much people complain about it) but the way it's used. You can only get shadowstep, exponential and dark theory value if the boon is near the objectives, and therefore closer to the killer. These boons, while strong, are in par with the risk & reward theme of the boons, put it somewhere safe and you won't get much, if any, value from it, put it somewhere useful and it'll be much easier for the killer to find and snuff it, without having to go far from the objectives. That fair risk & reward strategy is what makes these boons strong but not overpowered.

However, survivors can get the reward of using CoH without much of a risk, if you boon away from the objectives the killer simply can't afford to leave the area to go look and snuff the boon, even if they know where it is. Booning far from the objectives basically cancels the risk, and crossing the map to heal yourself, even with a nerfed speed, doesn't make up for it. CoH's reward vs risk balance is off, much like hexes became too strong when undying was first introduced, significantly reducing the "risk" factor of using a hex.

II - The solution ?

Unlike what many, many people are proposing, I very much disagree about making boons limited uses, or breakable or whatever; yes it would effectively nerf CoH, but it would nerf it too hard (why bring an healing perk with a set up time, limited area of effect AND limited uses when there's so many other perks who don't have any of these downsides?) and more importantly it would nerf the other boons to the ground as well, which is very much not needed. Survivors have to spend 14 seconds blessing a totem and come to its area to get value from their boon, they also can't protect it from being snuffed, unlike killers with their hexes.

Here's a proposition:

Boon: Circle of Healing

A Boon that offers comfort amidst the terror.

Press and hold the Active Ability button near a Dull or Hex Totem to bless it and create a Boon Totem.

Soft chimes ring out within a radius of 24 metres.

Survivors inside the Boon Totem's range benefit from the following effects:

• 60/65/70 % bonus to all Healing speeds.
• Unlocks the Self-Care ability within an 80 meters range of the killer, allowing to self-heal without needing a Med-Kit.
  • Reduces Personal Healing speed by -50 %.
  • Benefits from the general Healing Speed bonus.

Boon: Circle of Healing does not stack with other instances of itself.

You can only bless one Totem at a time.

As you can see the only (but major) difference is that self-heals are only possible within 80 meters of the killer. That distance is honestly just a placeholder that I think would be good but I actually have no idea. To make up for the fact that you can only self-heal near the killer i've reverted the speed nerf a bit, but that also can be tweaked.

This change alone would impact the risk & reward strategy of CoH:

• Boon far from the objectives and you can't self-heal anymore so at least two survivors have to move away from the objectives to benefit from the boon.
• Boon closer to the objectives and you're rewarded with the possibility of self-heal, but the boon will be much easier to find and the killer won't have to go far from the objectives to snuff it.

TLDR; boon safe get less value, boon risky get good value

I'm curious to hear what people have to say about this idea, feel free to politely argue, agree or disagree and tell me what you'd keep and change from this proposition :)

(long story short too much reward for not enough risk)