UndeddJester
UndeddJester
About
- Username
- UndeddJester
- Joined
- Visits
- 0
- Last Active
- —
Comments
-
I think Feng Min and Doctor should be a free characters on all platforms myself (they aren't on PC, but are on console). Both characters have good perks for a starter player.
Feng Min has a strong escape, help with skillchecks, and a decent info perk for new players to get going on.
Doctor has help reducing TR that is good alone at newbie levels, and a decent gen slowdown perk in Overcharge, that is sorely missing for base game players (seriously base game has nothing better than Unnerving Presence, Hex: Huntress Lullaby and Thana...).
That said, Curtain Call Chapter is free on Switch, and has Clown which has great new player starter perks in Bamboozle and Pop Goes The Weasel.
Kate has one perk in Windows... personally I hate this perk, cause I still maintain it makes you worse at the game, and makes it harder to learn....
But you are right it helps new players not get bodied over and over again... so it's not an unreasonable chapter to have for free.
-
@GeneralV said:
The option to forfeit I think is a terrible idea.
As for the DC penalties, I don't think they should be removed. But if they were removed, it wouldn't suddenly create a massive problem.
They weren't here from the start, and you didn't get DCs every game just because there was no penalty. Yes, you would see DCs more often than you do nowadays (unless you play against Skull Merchant), but there wasn't a constant wave of disconnects or anything like that.
You may be right, but in other games I've seen without DC penalties, rage quits are common.
You take a game with drop in/drop out gameplay like Counter Strike, Team Fortress 2, CoD, Left 4 Dead, or even something that isn't/is not so friendly to drop in/out like Fifa Pro Teams or Killing Floor, you get leavers in set matches all the time.
In those games it doesn't matter so much, but in DBD it's very important, and games with a similar level of matchmaking importance like LoL, DotA, Rainbow Six, they all impose harsh penalties for leaving, way worse than DBD because it negatively impacts the game for everyone else so severely.
I've always been quite surprised how lenient BHVR is on leavers tbh compared to similar companies, which makes me laugh when people ask for penalties to be removed.
-
@Madjura said:
Suicide on Hook at 5 gens is annoying yes... but at least it comes with the risk of everyone reporting that player (which needs to be improved tbh).
I don't know if the "needs to be improved" means it should become reportable but currently hook suicides are allowed: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/2556314/#Comment_2556314
Click the link for full context, that thread is about hook suicide at 5 generators and Mandy says that it's not reportable.
Actually missed that discussion, guess I'll stop reporting players who do it...
However in my defence the description for one of the report sections reads:
Unsportsmanlike Conduct
Use this option to report a player for purposefully losing the game, not participating in or disconnecting from the game early to avoid defeat. Examples: AFKing, rage quitting idling, and refusing to participate in normal gameplay
Obviously reading the thread does highlight that attempting to unhook yourself and letting yourself die for hatch are mechanics. What this rule is depicting is going AFK to lose. So I understand it'd be very difficult if not impossible to police SoH.
However the issue is ofc, when people refer to Suiciding on Hook, they mean running to the killer, getting downed and then deliberately going for unhooks to get to stage 2, then letting the skillchecks go by uncontested so they die.
This does fill this criteria rules as written... so it's no wonder people get confused.
Edit: Maybe we need a community rule.
If you see someone suiciding on hook, let survivors save, down that player and leave them on the floor, with the mutual understanding of letting them bleed out. Let them get crows, then report them for AFK 😈😈😈😈
If lucky, maybe they'll DC for a bot, in which case you allow the reset and continue the game. They get their deserved DC penalty, and the game continues.
If nothing else, everyone will feel better. 😁🤘
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621164#Comment_3621164
yes. at the time, there was 2 schools of playing freddy. otz briefly talks about that. The first school was that the way to play freddy was to run two cat block that reduced the dream transition time and play as m1 killer. freddy's mechanic was that you couldn't m1 survivors. you had to put them in dream world and dream transition was very long. Like 6 seconds. it was like having borrow time on every survivor. with add-on, they reduced dream transition time. In the end game, you would get free escapes because freddy atrocious at defending hooks. The dream transition gave survivor's free pre-running potencial because even if they were out of position, survivor would make it to the pallet as a result of freddy being unable to hit the survivor. He almost had 0 chase potencial. The only add-on that improved your chase was Red Paint Brush because it reduced your TR from 24 -> 8 meaning you would have some periodic wall-hacks at loops but the add-on also reduced your m/s from 115%->110%.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KB183VC0URRV/image.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UU3VSLFA6Z5I/image.png
If you watch otz video, otz talks about freddy's strength. freddy's strength were that he had unlimited wall-hacks across the map and he had 24 meter TR(16 meter) with M&A. The problem is that using his wall-hack at base-kit was really bad because survivor could go to generator or use self-care and wake up easily. This add-on otz uses reads as following. it considerably decreases chances to get skill-check. The green add-on above it does same thing but it moderately decreases chance to get skill-checks. survivor's found these add-on to be frustrating because when you stacked them, survivor spend 20 seconds self-caring and get no skill-check. Freddy could read your aura across the map, see that you were self-caring then show up and hit you. The same thing would happen with gens. you'd spend time working on a gen from 0->50% with that -50% action penalty and still get no skill-check. When you do get skill-check, you regress gen which produces loud noise notification for the killer. So freddy show up to your gen, put you back to sleep and so on. Otz mention in the video that if survivor group-up, Freddy could see the survivor who was waking up and by the time you wake up, he would show up and put both of you back to sleep. Survivors hated this gameplay, it had no name, but eventually gave it a name, it was called "forever freddy" because it stalled the game.
people who didn't take advantage of add-on and his strength whined that freddy sucked. Killers who did use add-on massively stalled the game and survivor found that frustrating. So they reworked him into what he is today. Unfortunately, survivor still found him annoying even after rework because he had two add-on's. Swing chains and Jump rope. These add-on reduced your action for repairing and healing labelled as "Forever Freddy" add-on's. Survivors found these to be annoying, so they nuked this add-on to orbit by completely making them useless and they also took the time to nerf freddy's base-kit by reducing his max snare count from 8->5 and making it that when you charge a snare, you move at 100%.
Since then, freddy has not received any changes. My guess is that he has design related to -action speed but dev don't want killer to use it so freddy just stays the same. receiving no changes. These days, I don't think killer care about that -action speed. people like @GeneralV just want freddy to be fun to play. Being stealth killer with unlimited wall-hack is fun. Current freddy kit is boring. He has nothing unique that stand out even if BVHR did buff him. His old design was superior because he had different unique gameplay that no other killer had to this date. otz showcases some matches with old freddy power.
First time I've seen anyone break down Freddy's original add-ons relating to play style in a manner I could follow... fascinating. Cheers dude for the in depth explanation as always :D
Unfortunately my own suggestion is a bit too far out there to be taken seriously, but my thought process was that his complete invisibility combined with a channel that is dependant on the survivors passive sleep progress allows for sudden stealth attacks by grabbing into the dream with little warning, and his slow down would be around survivors having to stop gens to wake each other up or get out of the dream world.
Watching the old footage, the walking around yoinking people into the dream world part of the old power, then trying to keep them there was less interesting to me. My personal thought was to have Freddy more as a stealth killer that played around the ambiguity of the dream world transition. My main change was that the yoink was no longer something you throw on someone and wait to complete, but a channel that the closer the person is to being asleep the easier it is to pull them in... up to being instantaneous at the cost of the survivor being able to see you intermittently. Depending on balance you could have his intermittent appearances appear closer and clsoer together the closer the survivor is to being asleep. Once fully progresse don micro sleep, the survivor can then be pulled in by Freddy immediately.
With the conspicuous action sleep timer increase, Freddy could find 2 suvivors on a gen and pull them both in a fraction of the time, killing ones ability to progress a gen, and chasing the other to try to hit and down. This now forces the other survivor to have to go find their clock or another survivor to get out (since skill checks would not let you out), unless they want the big slowdown. My other main thinking was that survivors missing skill checks would get pulled into the dream world, allowing perks like oppression and huntress lullaby to cause problems, also allowing players to consider trying for saves by deliberately entering the dream world, but of course warning Freddy in the process.
Passively falling asleep and making it easier to pull people in, however limiting it to 1 channel at a time naturally makes tunneling less favourable, as you have to actually find other survivors to pull them in, even if it is instantaneous. The focus is, once a survivor is asleep there is no easy way out, and that seems more consistent to me. Each wake up taking longer then makes even more sense, as if you use your time poorly, Freddy will slowly gain more and more streangth to keeping you in the dream.
Entirely possible he would need something else to support him, as a good looper will be facing him as a regular m1 killer... but the ambiguous sleep transitions felt far more thematically accurate to the films, which have a lot of not being sure if you're asleep or awake moments... being able to transition someone within 2 seconds after they've been working on gens for 35 seconds from perfect invisibility seems like a reasonable trade off to me, especially if you take something like Pop or Surge to support it... but it's hard to know as unlike old Freddy, this is totally theory craft :D
-
Still just want 100% look sensitivity for horizontal left and right as an active ability while charging...
It'd help console Billy life so much. I don't care about matching PC players. .. but choosing between getting constant spin teched or my basic look turning me into the floor like a corkscrew drill is just depressing 😔
-
@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621182#Comment_3621182
How logical the jeff 17 is hidden behind the challenges
You do realise that this goes ways?
If you have a cosmetic to unlock for completing all challnges, it either has to be for one side or another right?
So the same problem exists if you're a killer only player, which was exactly what happened for the Knight cosmetic at Halloween.
The only other option is have it be a generic reward... and noone is gonna be that impressed by ANOTHER charm, and a banner/avatar pic isn't exactly gonna be a big whoop either.
I'm not trying to be mean or a jerk here... but there is a certain amount of instead of complaining, maybe just bite the bullet and do what you have to do to earn your cosmetic. It's not hard to do, so your complaint is more that you can't be bothered... which then begs the question, do you really want the cosmetic?
Answer: no... clearly not
-
@mmerrett90 said:
The nerves of steel trophy says 0/500 on ps5, even tho I have hit multiple successful skill checks. Either it’s not tracking or straight up bugged
Always worth checking the bug reporting section.
Anyone experiencing this, make sure you head to this bug and up vote it.
-
There are so many variables in DBD its kinda hard to make any kind of objective system of measurement.
I suppose you could play each character maybe 10 times and see how many adepts you manage to get. However you also then need to discount suicide on hook and DC games, and maybe even need to harden your rules to disallow games where the killer let you escape (though Killer sympathy towards your survivor might also be a factor... separate tally would be interesting)
Depending on how it goes, your MMR may also change as well, so you might need to spread the games for each survivor out... and even then, still hard to get a fair measure... but it'd be fun 😅
-
@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621072#Comment_3621072
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621065#Comment_3621065
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621067#Comment_3621067
yea but i never want to play killer....ever i have 4k hours and dont want to play it in order to get the jeff head you have to. oh well guess i just wont get it.
Seems like the nature of a challenge tbh friend, it's meant to push you out of your comfort zone.
I don't particularly want to try and sacrifice all 4 survivors in the basement in a single game to get a tome codex entry... nor do I want to have to stun the killer with flashlight save 2 times in a single game either. Both require me to play in a way that is unnatural and uncomfortable to me.
However if I want that entry, thems the breaks.
The challenges for Killer were not at all hard to complete, it would have just taken a little time. You could have played to satisfy the condition then just let the survivors escape, realistically you could have done the whole thing in maybe 3 hours, or 1 hour per week if you'd done it during the whole event.
The game was providing you with a free means of acquiring a cosmetic. In return it asks for your time, if you don't wanna give it, that's fine, but considering it's not an unreasonable set of requirements, I don't feel like you can really give BHVR flack here.
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
Unlimited wall-hack while moving at 115%. that was his most defining feature that no other killer had. Still no killer to this day has that.
His other defining feature is -50% repair/healing/exit gate penalty which rework on improving through add-on but got gutted. so he has no identity.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620690#Comment_3620690
freddy wasn't good even with -50% penalty and old pop/old ruin probably outclasses all current game-delay options.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've read, the popularity of old Self Care meant the common counter to Freddy was spamming skill checks to escape the dream was his main counter?
He couldn't yoink people into the dream world and disrupt their ability to repair because they could wake each other up, and whoever he went for could self care out of the dream after throwing a pallet.
Though admittedly I would assume something else would be needed in his kit. Hard to assess having never actually played in this era I will admit 😁
-
Buffy would be awesome, and if there would be more characters, Willow would be awesome for some new boons!
-
@Iron_Cutlass said:
As a former Console Billy main, I have suggested this many times in the past, and it's still something that should be changed!
In the meantime, I can recommend anyone trying out Billy on Console, you can set your sense to 80% and still get amazing control with your curves.
They're looking at him this year... hopefully this makes it in 🙏
-
Funnily enough I was typing up a thread the other day where I was musing and brain dumping about Nurse. Didn't post it cause it was just a thought expository... but it seems quite relevant to this thread, so here goes:
==============================
This is not a "Nerf Nurse" post, just a brain dump of why she is such an interesting and tricky character to balance in DBD.
I want to say, that especially at my level, Nurse is fine. I typically find her very fun to face, challenging, rewarding, and very unique.
As we all know however, her potential... is insane. She stays around a healthy kill rate because lower skill Nurses tend to get pretty soundly beaten... mid skill will go even, but high skill Nurses will absolutely dominate... and the skill of the Nurse seems to be a bigger factor than the respective skills of the survivor (the survivor has to be A LOT better than the Nurse to even have a chance of consistently beating her). We all know that in a high skilled players hands, playing ruthlessly, with an optimal build, Nurse becomes almost unstoppable... and that is the reward for learning a challenging and unique killer.
What makes her interesting to me, The Nurse to DBD fits the category of one of those characters that exists in many games... she is the character that creates very unique gameplay, that because it is so unique compared to the rest of the game, kind of sits outside of the games normal balance mechanisms, and will always walk a fine line between being busted as all hell or completely useless. (This is usually seen in the form of stealth characters in combat heavy games for example).
The one thing I can see that makes her so incredibly flippant in her performance is her chain blinks. If you master chain blinks, you can almost always score a hit. If you don't... you will miss more often than not.
The optimal way to play Nurse is to blink to the last location you saw a survivor, then accurately chain blink on top of wherever they went, and land your hit, wherever the survivor jukes. The highest of levels comes from knowing the locations of exactly when to do your initial blink to ensure the survivor hasn't got any reasonable ways of faking you out, and then just merely executing it correctly.
It seems to me this is where the mind games against a high level Nurse fall short. As long as her first blink is good enough, the chain blink gives her the potency that she is famous for, and the knife edge of balance lies on that chain blink. Too long, and a Nurse can make up for any errors she had in her first blink, which kills any mind games. Too short, and she can't reasonably catch survivors without having to guess and try to land a well positioned first blink...
Even if you make it short though... at the highest levels, again, skilled Nurses will not really see the difference anyway, cause they know the map points they should herd survivors in to where they will be in what I will call a "Nurse dead zone".
The recent changes to Nurse have been very good, but she will always be that top tier character, because any attempts to standardise, or weaken her enough to combat her unique strength, and she'd easily be killed as a character.
==================================
I guess what I was driving at is the only effective way to truly nerf her off of top tier, is to make blinking to last known location and then just blinking on top of a survivor not a near guaranteed hit for a skilled player. This obviously would kill her skill expression which is never good... but you basically are forced to lower her skill ceiling if you want to balance her.
Something like shortening her chain blink distance, or limiting the range she can blink and still attack isn't enough to address a high skill Nurse player anyway, with the map knowledge to fall back on to create a "Nurse Dead Zone", they're still gonna be getting their near guaranteed hits.... though maybe if it's short enough there would be enough scenarios that they couldn't force it to make it fine? Otherwise you'd have to have something like slowing down her second blink so that it is more mind gamable, or something similar....
However if you do that... you can easily Hillbilly her to the point no-one will play her... finding a sweet spot that will be fair at all scenarios, but also offer reasonable skill expression seems kinda impossible. A nerf such as this would kill the Nurses at my level, and destroy what makes them fun to face... and at high level... no-one will bother playing her anymore... why play Nurse isntead of someone much less stressful, like Wesker, Spirit, Oni or Blight?
I'm not offering anything useful here... just kinda pointing the problem as I understand it :D
-
Taking the spirit of the thread, and choosing a perk that is generally considered mid/low, but would be busted with a change that you would likely expect someone to suggest:
Reactive Healing: 50% of HP total instead of current health when an ally gets wounded in range. The body blocking to gate vs. a SWF in end game would be 😱😱😱😱
Machine Learning: Marks the gen you kick rather than the next gen you kick. Just find a gen close to popping with Tinkerer, kick it, chase down the survivor you pushed off, and chances are someone will finish it as you score your down. You're now an insidious Bubba without a movement restriction for 30 seconds moving at 5.0m/s... that killer would be camp/slug hell... Can you imagine someone like Wesker going at that speed? 😳😳😳
-
For the sake of writing a more streamlined response instead of a novel, I would personally say: -
- Theme/Lore Accuracy: 8.5/10. The turrets serving as both a proximity sensor and powerful deterent is very true to the Alien and Aliens films. The fire does disorientate and push back the Xeno, but doesnt stop it. The tunnel network also mirrors Xenos appearances in both films really well. The tail is a dangerous weapon of the Xeno, shown regularly throughout both films to be a dangerous tool for catching and pinning down targets. It only loses a few points because it can't climb walls and we don't have face huggers... but both of those things are probably not good for DBD.
- Balance (Power Strength/Counterplay): 8/10. The Xeno combines multiple abilities together to be potent, without being overly oppressive in any particular area. It has good map presense, very good anti-loop, ok tracking that offers decent skill expression. It has good counterplay where smart use of use turrets can force out of crawler mode and/or gain distance; there are reasonable mind games vs. It's scary tail Power that are sufficiently rewarded. It only loses points as some hitboxes are rather frustrating for Xeno, and the movement speed debuff is quite heavily punishing (a halfway between 1.25 and 2.25 slow might be nice)
- Add-ons: 8/10. Got some nice options here, won't go deep at all, but you have some nice tricky options to Bamboozle, you have some helpful ones for new/console players vs. the turrets, got some decent options to aid your detection abilities. Pallet stun iri add on is a little weird... but if you expect to be turreted often can catch someone our the first time, so nothing sticks out as complete trash.
- Aesthetic: 10/10. Exceptional, killer looks great both at base and for all its skins. Mori is great. Spotting it charging after you in crawler mode, tail raised is definitely a "Oh crap" moment.
- Fun/Accessibility: 7/10. Is a little rough on console. Not untenable as usually you can focus on making hits during animation locks well enough, but flicks and tight hits are frustrating with teh afformentioned hitbox issues, and if you miss hitting a turret with your tail you really feel it. That said it's the usual console/PC disparity, and as usual there are add-ons that console killers can take to help them remain reasonably potent, if not quite getting everything that Xeno can do in a skilled PC players hands. Some frustration points, but overall is enjoyable.
Overall I'd say: 8.3/10
-
@GeneralV said:
Ah, a thread about my favorite killer! This is a sight for sore eyes, thank you so much for creating this one, my friend!
So, you're already familiar with my proposal for a Freddy change, but please allow me to expand it a little bit.
Power: Dream Demon
Pull survivors into the Dream World
-Survivors who are awake do not see The Nightmare.
-Once targeted by The Nightmare’s power, survivors enter the Dream Transition for 7 seconds.
-During the Dream Transition Survivors can see The Nightmare intermittently and they suffer from the Incapacitated status effect.
-When the Dream Transition Lapse, the Survivor is pulled into the Dream World.
Once in the Dream World:
-Survivor’s auras are revealed to The Nightmare when they are outside of his terror radius.
-Survivors suffer an action speed penalty of 40%.
-To exit the Dream World, Survivors can find non-sleeping Survivors to perform a wake up action.
-Failed Skill Checks can also wake up.
-Hooked Survivors wake up.
Special Ability: Dream Projection
-Teleport to a Generator in view. Releasing the button early will cancel the action.
-Survivors cannot interact with the targeted Generator.
“You have nothing to worry about. This won’t hurt one… little… bit.” -Freddy Krueger
The idea behind this concept of mine is pretty simple: the Incapacitated status effect solves the main problem people had with him, which was survivors finishing a gen or getting an unhook right in your face. Now that would be no longer a thing.
The teleport is here because It is the only thing worth salvaging from his current kit, at least in my opinion, and because the mobility is a huge help sometimes.
As for a bit of power trivia, I'm thinking:
-24 metres TR.
-1 second of movement speed penalty for putting a survivor into the Dream Transition (it used to be 1 second, then it was nerfed to 3 seconds after patch 1.8.1)
-No delay between a survivor leaving your terror radius and their aura being shown to you (another nerf from 1.8.1, no reason to keep it).
Overall, a modernized version of Old Freddy isn't really difficult, as his kit was already wonderful. A few QoL improvements and the most unique killer in this game's history is back to us!
The mere thought of getting my favorite killer back makes me happy.
We've danced before, and I remember this suggestion.
Have to admit, the TP is pretty cool. I like the blood rushing out of the generators... and part of me I likes the idea of anyone regardless of asleep or awake seeing it as a mind screw when using the add-on 😁
The immobilise for survivors while yoinking into the dream looks like it fixes a lot. I think your iteration of the idea works fine, especially as it gives him some nice traversal.
I'd personally like the new sleep and old sleep mechanics combined. What I'd want for Freddy is to capture the ambiguity of when you're between awake and asleep... in short:
- Survivors have 90 charges of microsleep and don't see their progress.
- Charges at 1 c/s (90s) and 2 c/s doing conspicuous actions (45s).
- Freddy channels a survivor at 10 c/s (9s)
- Once the sleep meter is filled the survivor can see Freddy intermittently (like the current Dream transition)
- Micro-sleeping Survivors get pulled into the Dream World by making loud noise notifications or when Freddy channels. Wake up from skillchecks removed.
- Can only be woken up when in the dream world either by teammate wake up action from someone not in the dreamworld, or via the clocks (though I'd use hot plates, steam vents or whatever and have survivors scream).
I was looking at dropping his gen slow down to 30% with this change, as Freddy can take a lot of the newer gen slow perks as well, and escaping the dream is harder.
-
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620466#Comment_3620466
Adept Bubba was the first and only time where I rage quit dbd.
Who can blame me.
I can feel the PTSD. Glad I tried them after they changed Merciless to just be a 4k xD
-
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619821#Comment_3619821
Not for me.
Killer is easier. It takes me first or second try to get killer adepts. Survivor adept can take longer since it depends on your teammates. And killer just can tunnel you out.
@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619828#Comment_3619828
Agree to disagree.
Killer adept is harder.
"just tunnel someone out" is not the win-button you seem to think it is.
I think you're both right tbh.
The requirements for Killer Adept is tougher. Your perks mean more in general, and if they don't synergise with or shore up the weaknesses of your power, or are generally weak, then tough beans. You're gameplay from 1 killer to the next doesn't necessarily translate either. Chances are there is a power that won't click with you somewhere in the roster, and you'll struggle.
You have to play hardball and get efficient downs, track your hooks, and making sure you slug for the 4k, don't give anyone a chance to breathe and break your snowball. There is noone who can carry you as a killer, you have to win yourself and make sure no one sneaks hatch. If they have someone who is cracked on their team, that one player can be a real thorn in your adept attempts. Someone playing as a rat can really screw you over too. I hate tunneling, I refuse to do it even if I'm losing, and even doing an adept or 4k challenge I don't do it unless someone literally dances in front of me on death hook... but after 4 hatch escapes in a row (Singularity was annoying AF) even the fairest of us get tempted... However the 1 advantage of Killer is your MMR is tied to your killer... if you're new to a killer, you won't be going in the same realms of player skill as your main Killer, so it's usually not too bad as long as you haven't been playing that character for ages, and only now started trying to Adept.
On Survivor you only have to escape. Doesn't matter how you do it, you can escape via Hatch, Gate, 4 man or 1 man escapes, keys, can play as a rat, can gen rush, can even sandbag your teammate if need to for hatch, whatever, you will eventually get out once. The problem is... your MMR for Survivor doesn't change from survivor to survivor... so whether you've played that character or not before, you're going at your normal MMR, so it's more of a handicap...
In my experience as a new player this tends balance out. I started a principle of whenever I started a new killer or survivor I immediately did their Adept. Eventually I'd get a team/killer that didn't know what they were doing and get my 4k/escape... but doing these things as a low level player has to be much easier 😅
-
@LordGlint said:
Once again just had a game where a survivor died on the 1 hook available in the corner and their teammates realizing. Game ended with both of the remaining survivors bleeding out while tucked as far into the corner as possible... I feel like there should just be unbreakable corner hooks at this point, or remove the entity permanently breaking the hook.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AVH4IZ8SIJV5/17041695875205839155197861535162.jpg
While I don't have any kind of official statement or location to cite, I would imagine the reason for the hook breaking mechanic is to ensure that if there is a particularly easy to camp/defend hook for a killer, they can't just tunnel a survivor off of hook then keep using the same hook once a survivor is sacrificed. This seems like a failsafe since hook spawns are procedural.
So I suppose one way of thinking about it is, removal of this mechanic doesn't come with all the benefits for free. It will come with issues of particularly powerful hook spawns on certain maps potentially becoming problematic vs. certain killers. Think of the issues with Boil Over and maps that don't have anywhere you can reach a hook without losing a survivor, but in reverse.
For example imagine a Nurse or Bubba managing to hook a survivor on one of the hills in the middle of Pale Moon Swamp. They can effectively ensure that no one can get to that hook without trading as they can always have LoS of it. So the idea I would think is when a survivor is sacrificed, they lose that particular hook, and can't then do the exact same thing to next survivor until everyone is dead.
The reason Basement hooks don't break is survivors can easily identify basement and know not to go there... but if you get an equally defendable regular hook that is possible to get the same value from in the normal playing area, you have a problem... a regular hook should never be reaching basement levels of power. This also feeds into Scourge Hooks, and whether there is any issue with those not breaking permanently if you can get a really good one for Huntress with something like Floods Of Rage for example.
So thats the trade.
- Potentially have dead zones that forces the killer to leave all survivors slugged and bleeding out.
- Potentially having really strong hook spawns that the killer can easily camp and tunnel, that never gets removed and can carry on being recycled.
Personally I see the former as a little bit less of an issue... When it comes to survivors all being slugged under the broken hook, I can't help feel a little bit of "you reap what you sow".
-
@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3620209#Comment_3620209
Isnt there still a crackling sound even if you don't hear the bell anymore? I remember hearing about wraith having 2 noises associated to his uncloak. The bell. And the crackling of his form changing.
If there is, its very quiet, maybe I should up my game audio... cheers!
-
Wraith is fine for the most part... though...
Actually something I would like to ask, would any high skilled players have any suggestions for dealing with his silent uncloak iri add-on? I played against one the other day, and against high walls I genuinely couldn't figure out what the hell I could do other than just keep letting him chew through pallets, or just slap me down. One of the things I've been trying to do against Wraith is not just camp pallets and throw when he uncloaks, I actually try to mind game and save resources... However with the iri add-on....
If I try to leave the loop while he is cloaked, he just follows and uncloaks in a dead zone and hits me. Usual Wraith issues.
If I try to stay at the loop working around a pallet\window, he can obviously use body blocking strats to get a hit. Usual Wraith issues.
However trying to mind game around windows and pallets and make him commit... I really struggle do that against this add-on... he can just uncloak around high walls and I have no warning that he is doing so, I have no idea most of the time if I should move or stay. It basically means I have stay in sight of him at all times, and stay close enough to a strong resource to use it when he commits, where the tiniest delay in reaction time means I'm eating a hit... and I'm back to just burning resources again.
I suspect it's my inability to quickly idenitfy loop structures with windows and chain them together efficiently to beat the Wraith to them... but with the silenced bell, I just dunno what to do instead of camping windows and pallets, and just hop quietly when I suspect he is uncloaking and praying he guesses wrong. Any tips would be appreciated.
-
Borrowed Time is not a pointless perk: -
- It is not usually anticipated and unlike OTR has no obvious tell outside of the survivor being faster, which is less apparent than no whimpering sounds.
- It has six potential uses per game for one perk slot, whereas OTR only works twice per perk slot.
- Extends the Endurance to last longer than your standard heal time to protect while healing off hook.
- It also extends the speed boost duration, both increasing the chance of making a loop throughout tunnel attempts in the game.
- It doesn't disable at end game, using allbof the above to make the final sprint to the gate after an unhook far more likely to succeed.
Especially when combined with Sprint Burst, the Survivor can make mad distance off hook.
-
Who would you pick though?
I'd argue that although Trager is only in the game briefly... he is the absolute pinnacle of the game, and the true highlight of Outlast. Detestable and horrifying in everything he says and does, though what power you'd give him is a tough question... since he's basically a normal person with sheers.
Chris Walker (the big guy?) is way overused to the point it becomes mundane seeing him after a certain point, like they needed to fill the space and throws him in to stop the player being bored... and ultimately is just a big strong guy, who admittedly does rip heads off with his bare hands, but isn't much more than that.
The Twins are very simple and uninteresting as enemies, with AI that only worked in set scenarios, and was broken in others. Not a good highlight from the game to pick.
Eddie Gluskin is fine I guess, but at that point RedBarrels we're kinda pushing the envelope of the grotesque gore they could get away with, and had Eddie cutting off everyone's Johnsons to create the perfect bride.. which doesn't translate too well to DBD... He also suffers the Chris Walker problem of effectively just a big strong guy.
The Cannibal (Frank? I can't remember) is just generic psychopath 101 with a saw.
The Wall Rider is the main story point of Outlast so is worth considering, and could be interesting as a killer power, but is only around at the end of the game and questionable as the face of the game...
A Mount Massive Asylum Map sounds good though, the environments in Outlast were very good... sometimes a little too over the top, could have been reigned in a little instead of blowing it's gore load immediately, but for the most part, the neglected decay of the asylum, and unsettling ambience created by the sprawling and events of the inmates there led to some pretty good unnerving tension.
-
A thought that pinged in my head while writing this is, you could make Breakdown an anti tunnel perk.
Breakdown
When you get unhooked, Breakdown activates and that hooks aura is revealed to you for 60s.
If the killer puts you on that hook while Breakdown is active, you instead break the hook and drop back to the floor into the Dying state.
This would keep your wiggle progress in tact, so the killer can't pick you up... but there is probably some means of exploiting this I'm not aware of.
-
Not an unreasonable stance, but what would you do with it though?
It's identity is one that makes the area the player is unhooked from a little safer for survivors because there are fewer hooks nearby, opening up more chances for sabo saves and alike.
In it's most innocent form, it essentially makes it harder to tunnel a player off hook, as if they go down in the same place, the hook they just came off is not there. The problem is, Breakdown can be both busted by making an area a compete hookless wasteland, or completely useless and do effectively nothing at all. The fact it is not consistent is what makes it unpopular.
Against an organised SWF, yes this is obnoxious... but that is rare.
-
I can only speak from a new person's perspective, and I know I'm gonna get flack for this but do hear me out... but MMR largely seems fine across the low to mid levels to me...
I started in May, and have played both Killer and SoloQ Survivor from scratch on my brand new account, and I've had every kind of game under the sun... but rarely have I had a game that I felt I could say for sure was not at my skill level. Sure I got the odd cracked Blight or Nurse, and the odd bambi Legion or Trapper, but for the most part my opponents and teammates have been roughly my level.
Recently I've started playing with friends. I've actually started playing with some streamers with numbers like 7000 hours in the game... I've also introduced brand new players to the game literally at 0.
The shift either way on my oppositions skill was... very noticeable... not only that, but the respective quality of builds/characters also shifted quite severely as well.
Since joining my high level friends and winning games with them, my games became noticeably harder with more Nurses and Blights popping up regularly (I rarely saw them before).
I've had days where I get completely smashed, I've had days where I'm almost untouchable, however there are very few examples where I can honestly point MMR as being a problem.
What I personally think is that DBD is a very precise game. Small decisions, and key moments decided on a dime have big consequences. I've had plenty of moments where if I'd dropped a pallet a split second sooner, or pathed just a little cleaner on my lunge, and that's the difference between another 10s at loops and a down... and that 10s window has been the difference between a 3 man escape, and a 4k.
Now I can't speak for high MMR... as I'm not high MMR, I just have to trust you guys on your observations... but considering your average player is likely around me... I think you're gonna struggle to get MMR removed... because for most of the player base, MMR seems to work fine... which is likely why the MMR cap got raised recently, enough players are in that band now to justify it.
I'm not arguing for MMR... but I'm just pointing out, I don't think it affects your average player like it affects you.
Edit: And the issue you get with grades, is that your average player can't get to iridescent rank... and I won't bother explaining intrinsic motivation in games to you... but allowing your average player to reach 'iri' rank is a great tool to keep those players invested and keep game footfall strong.
-
Happy New Year Ladies and Gentlemen!
Been a wild year to join this nutty game and this community. Has been a pleasure discussing, debating, learning and usually being soundly humbled by you all! 🫠
Hope everyone is not a little too ginger this morning 🤘🥴🤘
-
@Moonras2 said:
I think it was more acceptable, at least to me, because it was easier to punish. Old BNPs existed (I often ran them but never used them unless someone was being camped/tunneled). Old DS and DH were much stronger deterrents or chase extenders. Gens took less time while every killer action took more time. Double pallets, vacuum pallets, etc...
All of these things made tunneling weaker while at the same time making camping feel more necessary at the time. Which was also hard punished with DS and old Borrowed Time.
All of these things could also be used in ways that made the game feel hopeless as well though. They weren't limited in anyway to just anti tunneling and I don't know how they could've been either. It made many games feel unfair or unfun
Today pretty much all of this has changed and I don't really ever feel the need to tunnel or camp either. There are rare occasions I'm sure but nothing I can remember. I also don't really find the game unfair anymore outside of matchmaking. But I do still often find it unfun.
Dead on the money.
The big issue that keeps coming up is all of the tools to combat tunneling can and will also be used to punish non-tunneling killers too.
You can't give someone the option of taking a gun to a knife fight and ask them to only use it if the other side doesn't fight fair. That is almost never how it'll go down.
A lot of people bash BHVR stating 'bad design' and 'don't play their own game', but one thing that continues to surprise me in these forums is the almost ingenious ways both Killers and Survivors can find to twist any suggested change into an unintended side effect.
DBD is a very delicate ecosystem... any changes, no matter how benign, can seem like they'll work, then when you see it in practise it can easily add more problems than it solves...
-
I swear to God Killers hate certain survivors more than others.
My games get significantly harder when I'm playing Ace or Haddie, I'm sure of it... their Adepts were brutal... 🤕
-
Happy New Year Ladies and Gents!
It's been an absolute treat discussing our shared addiction this year... have a good one!
Cheers!
-
Hard to know what to advise really... I started May this year, and thoroughly enjoyed the game right from the get go... and I can't really say why... I'm kinda an addict now...
I feel like in my case I was enjoying the atmosphere and scares as a new player, and didn't really care about escaping... I was just trying to survive longer and just do better than I did before.
I did start off by playing killer initially and watched a lot guides and videos for new players, which helped a lot I think. I do think there are a few key concepts and starting blocks to get going with. I introduced a friend literally on the 28th who had a little trouble to begin with but started getting the idea having fun by game 5. I advised him to just use Feng Min and her perks with Deja Vu, as it gave him a safe guard vs. missing skill checks, gave some info, some escape, and helped progress gens.
If you haven't already make sure you use the THANKYOUFOR60M code in the store. It'll help you with some bloodpoints and a good number of shards.
-
@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619093#Comment_3619093
If the unhooker is injured, or gets hit while doing the unhook, then the killer can hit the unhooked survivor to trigger a 'Protection Hit' event and deactivate DS.
You can't really make bodyblocking deactivate DS without letting the killer just bypass it entirely as the unhook happens.
I'd be fine with entering a locker deactivating DS, as if you have DS up you don't really need to hide inside lockers. That said a good killer can avoid most attempts at weaponising DS.
What if instead of protection hits, DS gets the condition:
"After the killer has been in chase with one other survivor for 20 seconds, Decisive Strike deactivates."
'One other' means 20 secs on a single survivor, not cumulatively across all survivors. ~20-25 mark feels about right.
The weaponising portion of DS largely comes from SWFs, and deliberately blocking the killer in narrow spaces from pursuing their teammates, and the reason they do it is cause they know they are immune to being picked up for likely another 40s or so from when they take a hit.
Trying to tackle with protection hits is problematic for 2 reasons: -
- It doesn't work for blocks for full HP survivors.
- The killer hitting you when a wounded teammate is nearby after unhooking you, or trying to heal you will count as a protection hit and disable Decisive Strike.
If its tied to chase time of one other survivor, then the DS player cannot interfere unless they can get that block and be picked up within 20 seconds, and there is always the chance the killer guesses DS, leaves them slugged and only needs to accumulate what remains of the 20 seconds of chase to be able to pick up the DS player again.
This means for normal interactions where the DS player runs one way and the other chased survivor goes another, the killer has to go faaaar away from the DS player to get their chase up, or sit and wait out the 60s (I'd be tempted to make it 80 with this change).
The way you might try and subvert it would be to slug the DS player and they chase a survivor nearby enough to disable it, but 20-25 secs is reasonably long, and if players move away for 20 seconds, that's quite a distance the killer has to go first.
-
@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619375#Comment_3619375
It shouldn't deactivate at the end game.
If you get saved and the killer decides to tunnel you right then and there, what do you do? No, the perk must still be active when the gates are powered.
This is like making STBFL disable at the end game, imo.
The reason it disables at end game is the killer cannot possibly stop you from escaping once the gates are open.
If he picks you up, you stun them and run out of gate, if they don't pick you up, you crawl out anyway.
It puts the killer in a lose/lose situation. Even though they successfully caught you after you were unhooked and running to the exit, they can't possibly win, not because you outplayed them, but because you equipped this perk.
It's things like this that make Decisive Strike a pain... It's a cool perk idea, I want it to be good, but you get all these edge cases where it becomes a problem...
-
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619390#Comment_3619390
The thing with Clown is he has limited bottles, his clouds last a limited time, and he has to be careful with placements to ensure he gets the 10% boost vs. the Survivors 15% Hindered.
It doesn't really matter for specific chase tho, it's enough to get hit.
Clown is able to get hit on shack even if pallet is up, no need for big mind games.
So basically even tho her speed and hindered are weaker, it's supposed to bigger issue just because it's easier to use?
That seems balanced to me, it's not as difficult to use, so it is weaker...
you can anticipate a shock and throw a pallet early
But skull merchant wouldn't need to actually use the shock, right? I can just keep running around the loop, getting bloodlust, while you can't vault the pallet. If you vault, you get tagged and can't vault back.
This would be so annoying to deal with it.
Hindered doesn't stop you from vaulting. Predropping currently works quite well against Skull merchant, same as Clown. It wouldn't really work with shocking.
It would become way more oppressive for chased survivor.
So basically even tho her speed and hindered are weaker, it's supposed to bigger issue just because it's easier to use?
That seems balanced to me, it's not as difficult to use, so it is weaker...
Thing is though, its not weaker. Most Clowns don't stack up yellow bottle and purples at majority of loops. 15% Hindered is enough most of the time.
10% Hindered and a 3% speed boost for all intents and purposes is effectively the same thing. You have the point that SM can't apply her speed swing as easily as Clown, but again, she can keep getting her speed boost, her Hindered, her killer instinct and everything, without needing to aim anything, all while building bloodlust, with no downtime and no reload, which Clown can not.
But skull merchant wouldn't need to actually use the shock, right? I can just keep running around the loop, getting bloodlust, while you can't vault the pallet. If you vault, you get tagged and can't vault back.
This would be so annoying to deal with
I still don't get you here, because in all scenarios the same problems exist for Hinder but are almost always worse. We don't need a Doctor level 2.5s action block shock, that number can be fiddled with to meet something reasonable, but a Hindered effect will always be an issue unless you want to make it really short too?
For the shock, against a weak loop, yes the shock has this problem she can just keep running after you until you get shocked, but unless she accounts for when the shock hits you and/or changes drone rotation accordingly, you can still threaten vaults before your scan. You can even bait a less optimal vault just before the shock to get a swing, you juke the hit and and leave. The problem is much less against a strong loop, cause when you get to the pallet from out of sight of the scan, you can throw/vault before your shock scan, and when she breaks the pallet, she loses bloodlust, and you get the distance while she breaks. The point is, a shock only hurts you when you want to throw a pallet or vault...
However with the Hinder, both strong and weak loops are worse, cause on a weak loop she does the same thing as before... but now whether you vault or not she just doesn't break and catches you regardless, the hinder makes it so any attempt to leave is completely pointless, so you must leave before hand. At a strong loop, you can throw like before, only this time you don't care about when you get scanned, cause the Hinder is gonna hit you anyway. Even if she breaks and loses bloodlust, you still don't make distance while she breaks cause you have the Hinder vs. Her speed boost. Hinder hurts you no matter what you're doing.
I genuinely can't think of a scenario where I'd prefer having my ankles broken, vs. say a 1.5 action block from a shock.
Edit: What's also nice about the shock is it behooves Skull Merchant to use her radar to change the beam direction at the right time for the shock to allow her to convert to a hit. This means she isn't building bloodlust cause she is using her power... as opposed to Hinder where she doesn't really need to care when it hits the survivor, as long as it hits.
As an aside... does anyone know why Skull Merchant gets Killer instinct when a claw trapped survivor is scanned? I never understood that... she literally has a radar for this exact purpose... why even use the radar when Killer Instinct does the same thing better?
Have a harsher alert beep and colour the blip orange or something would be my choice.
-
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619227#Comment_3619227
it kinda feela bad, like I didn't earn my down.
why? It's her power, which is just movement speed bonus in most cases, and in longer chase possibly hindered. How is it exactly different from clown?
Clown can get 10 % Haste and give 15 % Hindered
Skull merchant usually has only 3%, max 5% speed boost and 10% Hindered.
Her values are way lower than Clown and you realy on survivors to use them, it can be denied for quite a long time.
So I really don't see her chase as an issue.
With Dredge on many loops there is nothing survivor can do to avoid downed/injured. (try Dredge on Hawkins, that's fun)
Knight? When I am just eating popcorn and watching my guard down survivor, who went to corner?
Artist? Basically same as Dredge.
Trickster? Good luck playing short loops.
My main problem is those so called "issues" are not unique to Skull merchant. You can easily find it on many other killers.
You worry about many status effects? Remove broken. I couldn't care less about it for my gameplay.
Skully is basically Jack of all trades, master of none.
how much speed Skull Merchant has
I mean, if she has more than 3%, someone screwed it. You can easily see on yourself if you got tagged or not, you start glowing red for a while. Other than that you can see if someone else has active claw trap. That covers most of it.
I'd prefer her speed be standardised in some way.
Thing is there is not really reason for it.
Do you know how fast is Blight? Spirit? Wraith? Perks on both sides?
With merchant, if you make some effort you can track it with HUD. It's already nerfed a lot compare to old version. You almost never get over 5%, not really hard to track in my opinion...
shock instead of Hindered
Shock like a Doctor?
Do you realize Shock would be way stronger? How the hell is that better for survivors?
If you make it on windows only or something, then it's kinda useless. If it works on pallets, or even just pallets only, it's way more annoying to deal with than Hindered.
How is it exactly different from Clown?
The thing with Clown is he has limited bottles, his clouds last a limited time, and he has to be careful with placements to ensure he gets the 10% boost vs. the Survivors 15% Hindered. If he misthrows either he doesn't benefit, and can even help the survivor out by boosting them.
Skull Merchant doesn't have to worry about uptime or reloading, she doesn't have to be accurate with her placement, she gets her speed passively while still just zoning the survivor at the loop, while also getting the benefit able to see exactly where they are at all times. She even gets to build bloodlust while zoning, which Clown does not. Either the survivor doesn't leave, where they will eventually get the Hindered effect vs. her haste, which is pretty much a guaranteed down unless Skully horribly misplays, or they leave, which she has perfect knowledge on and either intercepts, or simply repeat at the next loop.
Clown can make mistakes at loops and be outplayed, it's tough, but it can happen. It is REALLY hard to mess up completely as Skull Merchant.
Thing is there is not really reason for it.
Do you know how fast is Blight? Spirit? Wraith? Perks on both sides?
You may have noticed I'm not especially trying to nerf Skull Merchant. I'm trying to remove her more annoying effects that makes everyone just shut down vs. her. This 5% boost when a Survivor is trapped is a buff, but importantly, it's consistent.
You're right, there won't be more than 2 scans most of the time, but the point here is to make the survivor being chased the decider for how much speed she gets. If someone gets scanned cross map, for the most part it shouldn't apply additonal pressure to the person she is currently chasing, because the person she is chasing is likely to pick up a scan too. If someone gets claw trapped cross map... they really screwed up, but they obviously become a juicier target for SM vs. A healthy survivor at a loop.
My point here is that trying to watch where Skull Merchant is and what she is doing for mind games, trying to watch where the drone is facing (especially in stealth mode), and trying to watch the HUD, and then trying to adjust for her speed at loops is a lot to ask of a survivor to process at any moment. A claw trapped survivor is something that is not hard to notice on the HUD, even in your periphery, and making it consistent, means survivors can adjust their timings and get a feel for playing vs. her.
Do you realize Shock would be way stronger? How the hell is that better for survivors?
Again, I'm not high elo, but in my experience against Doctor, you can anticipate a shock and throw a pallet early, or fake towards/take vaulting pallet/windows for mind games as the shock hits you. If you succeed at that mind game, you can make distance, but if you misplay it you get boned.
Vs. Hindered, just like Clown, even if you succed at the mind game, you still get Hindered, and they catch up, you're still in a dire situation because you can't make any distance, and again, unlike Clown, Skully doesn't ever have to slow and reload, she just bolts after you.
Do tell how a shock is so much stronger than Hindered? Cause I see the opposite in my games. A good Clown is harder to face at loops than a good Doctor, that's why Doctor has additonal slowdown and detection screams in his kit via madness and static blast, while Clown literally holds loops and that is it.
-
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619193#Comment_3619193
It's attempting to weaponise the perk, which is a slightly different thing.
With the Conspicuous Actions nerf, any survivor who tries to weaponise DS is throwing. Speaking from the killer perspective, the statement "If DS gets a 5 second stun again, survivors will try to weaponise it" doesn't scare me off, since you're just telling me that my games are going to be easier due to more survivors throwing the match to try (and fail) to get value from weaponised DS.
The only change I'd personally make is making any save a Conspicuous Action, since you're not being tunnelled if someone else has been downed and picked up. Other than that, the current implementation is perfectly suited to combat weaponising the perk, so the stun duration can be safely buffed without worry about it becoming a problem.
To touch on the idea that "if you want to use it as an anti-tunnel perk you shouldn't care if it gets nerfed for weaponising", I think that's a fair statement that simply misses something: False positives. Take bodyblocking- there's no way of guaranteeing you won't end up having your DS deactivated just because you're hit close to your teammate post-unhook, which is pretty common when you're being tunnelled. Considering that, and the fact that DS is incredibly hard to weaponise without throwing (basically impossible if the killer doesn't fall for the bait), I think it's fair to object to the idea that weaponising the perk needs to be "fixed".
Unfortunately @Coffeecrashing is correct, the main reason Decisive Strike isn't used much now is because the 2 seconds of escape it actually buys you is ineffective against a good Nurse or Blight. If the stun is jacked up however we still hit the problem of it being weaponised.
The protection hit solution would be nice, but we hit the problem you describe. I was working on this to post in another thread, but I realised you can still body block for a full HP survivor with Decisive Strike, so that would be an issue...and I can't think of a way of preventing it. The one saving grace is at least it would be pretty obvious, however of course SWFs would still use it... and we do have the issue that Killers can get faked out by someone pretending to have DS. In any case this is what I have thus far.
Decisive Strike
Using whatever is at hand, you stab your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape.
If the exit gates are not yet powered, after being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike activates after 5 seconds. For the next 40/50/60 seconds:
- When being grabbed or picked up by the Killer, succeed a Skill Check to automatically escape their grasp, stunning them for 3.5 seconds.
- The killers power is disabled for 7 seconds.
- Successfuly stunning the Killer will deactivate Decisive Strike and result in you becoming the Obsession.
While Decisive Strike is active, it is deactivated if:
- The survivor performs any Conspicuous Actions.
- The survivor takes a Protection Hit.
- The Exit Gates are powered.
After successfully stunning the Killer with Decisive Strike, it is disabled for the rest of the trial.
The 5 seconds timer is to ensure protection hits off hook can't disable it... I was really trying to think about if you could beat the 5s timer. Even if you get hit immediately off hook with STBFL, rushed and downed again with Nurse, Blight, Spirit or Wesker, could they pick you up to beat the 5s timer? Wesker is possible, because he can immediately hit you off hook then Virulent Bound to instant grab you... but I don't think anyone else can without a grab...
-
@UndeddJester said:
The simple reason is, if you don't have a scaled effect the gens pop:
- 90 secs for 1 survivor (90s currently)
- 45 seconds for 2 survivors (53s currently)
- 22.5 seconds for 3 survivors (43s currently)
- 11.25 seconds for 4 survivors (41s currently)
As you can imagine, survivors would just wander around as a group and just mass repair gens, and scatter whenever the killer comes to the gen. Whoever the killer follows, the other 3 go back and only need 22.5 seconds to repair each generator. If he guards that gen, they just congregate elsewhere and can rush a gen in a few seconds.
If you assume each gen is a 20s walk apart, you can see how the killer can't really stop the survivors. Even just putting someone on hook can take about 15 seconds.
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619200#Comment_3619200
90/1 = 90
90/2 = 45
90/3 = 30
90/4 = 22.5
where are you getting 11.25 seconds? you would need 4 engineer toolboxes with 4 survivors to get 11.25 seconds because 90/8 = 11.25.
There is inherent advantage in dbd for looping when 2 people group-up on gens. that advantage is that you won't run into teammates that work on generators. it means person who get chased has bigger map to shift-w and runaway.
For example, if you have 3 people on 3 separate that spread out, you are occupying 60% of the map where the person that is getting chased cannot loop else killer interrupt gen progress.
with 2 people on 1 gen and 1 person on another gen, you occupy only 25% of the map yet your total gen efficiency is not a lot worse. Looping 40% of the map is a lot harder then looping 75% of the map. with 75% of the map, you have wider selection of pallets to choose from. With 40% of the map, your pallet selection is limited. You are often forced to choose weaker pallets.
Oops... I just halfed the time each time, I guess that's what solving problems at midnight after switching your brain off for 5 days, drinking alcohol while eating cake, chocolate, sweets instead of proper meals will get you xD
Regardless, 30 seconds still realises the point xD
-
The FOV has always been a part of the balance of the game. It's depends really what they're gonna do with the slider.
I looked into it a while back and I seem to recall DBD FOV is 89 degrees? Industry standard is between 90 and 110 degrees I believe.
If that's the range, I think its fine to keep the hitbox standard... but if players can start putting in 170 degrees and looking at the game through a crystal ball becomes meta, would be less inclined not to alter the hitbox...
So as long as the FOV slider isn't silly, it's fine to stay the same...
-
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619194#Comment_3619194
I mean, as I said before she already lost quite a lot of things and got worse on most others.
She is way more managable for survivors compare to old version.
I play her a lot and main issue is survivors still don't know how to play against her. Amount of times I managed to get claw trap on survivor outside of chase is just sad. That should never happen.
I really don't think killer should be nerfed just because survivors don't know how to play against it. We have seen it with Pig, several times...
The video posted by @Skillfulstone explains it with very good argumentation.
That is quite a lot of things missing / incorrect in that video. Those comparisons against other killers are made in a way it seems better than it is just to support the narrative.
It's definetly not true she doesn't have a counterplay. Seems kinda funny to say she doesn't have counterplay and then display Knight as an example with counterplay...
Even as chase merchant she is not better than old version. Only thing that improved is stealth, everything else about her is worse. That's why she is more managable.
She is completely useless without haste, she has nothing without it.
For all I care you can remove hindered and push it back to addon, but definetly not haste. It's already worse than it used to be.
I will admit, I do think she is more managable, but I'm low, maybe mid elo tops... I'm not sure how much is players not bothering to play, and how much is her being insane at anti-loop/me being bad.
She in my opinion is not quite hitting the levels of obnoxious that some would have us believe... however the 13%-17% speed swing is just insane in combination with everything else she gets. When I get it as Skull Merchant, it kinda feela bad, like I didn't earn my down. I'm a Pig player usually and rely on mind games for downs, the scans make those mind games pretty easy, as there is no chance of me completely misguessing while I have them on radar, so I wouldn't say she gets nothing without her haste. Especially as she has a 4.6m/s stealth speed, which is great for sneaking up on gens.
With that in mind removing Hindered is one option for chopping something out of her kit. The only issue I have with this is getting scanned while you have a claw trap should do 'something'. The shock suggestion from PixelBush was pretty cool... maybe sn add on for a 3% Hindered effect would be fine?
Another thing that erks me personally about her speed boost is it is never clear how much speed Skull Merchant has. It's something you can possibly learn, but unless youre paying close attention to the HUD in the middle of trying to deal with her at loops, it's really hard to know what speed she has. People getting scanned across the map can suddenly grant her a speed boosts that have nothing to do with the survivor she is actually chasing.
I'd prefer her speed be standardised in some way. Part of the suggestion for the TR option was to make it so the survivor she is actually chasing is the cause for her boost. Alternatively 3% for a scanned survivor and 5% for a clawtrapped survivor, and leave it at that at least let's you know where you stand, rather than it being somewhere between 3% and 7%... and it would help me keep track k as Skull Merchant a lot easier too, as even playing her sometimes I'm not sure.
So between the standardised speed and the shock instead of Hindered, I would think Skull Merchant would be quite reasonable.
-
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619190#Comment_3619190
It's still weaponizing the perk. Survivors are purposely weaponizing the perk, and that needs to be fixed. The actual anti-tunnel part can stay. And super honestly, if people really truly want to use DS as an anti-tunnel perk, then they shouldn't care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619168#Comment_3619168
The fact that survivors were purposely bobdyblocking, purposely baiting the killer, and purposely trying to get the killer to eat a DS, means the survivors were weaponizing the perk. And why would you care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed? You obviously would never try to use DS offensively, right? Because if you don't, then you shouldn't care if the weaponizing part gets nerfed, because it wouldn't affect you at all, right?
Dead on. Locker suggestion is good.
Protection hits should disable it as well, but unfortunately that still doesn't stop taking a hit for full health survivors... you can't make it when hit within range of any other survivors as hitting you while you're trying to heal is also tunneling.
Still haven't thought of a means of preventing weaponisation of this kind. DS isn't really worth running in its current form, especially vs Nurse or Blight... but it's s a tough perk to buff for this reason alone...
Perhaps something like when the killer has been in chase of another survivor for 10s, if tou are hit within 16m of that survivor, Decisive Strike deactivates?
-
The simple reason is, if you don't have a scaled effect the gens pop:
- 90 secs for 1 survivor (90s currently)
- 45 seconds for 2 survivors (53s currently)
- 22.5 seconds for 3 survivors (43s currently)
- 11.25 seconds for 4 survivors (41s currently)
Edit: I was completely wrong here, see below 🙃
- 30 seconds for 3 survivors (43s currently)
- 22.5 seconds for 4 survivors (41 currently)
As you can imagine, survivors would just wander around as a group and just mass repair gens, and scatter whenever the killer comes to the gen. Whoever the killer follows, the other 3 go back and only need 30 seconds to repair each generator. If he guards that gen, they just congregate elsewhere and can rush a gen in a few seconds.
If you assume each gen is a 20s walk apart, you can see how the killer can't really stop the survivors. Even just putting someone on hook can take about 15 seconds.
-
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3619131#Comment_3619131
Why exactly should it cost anything? It's her power...
Because, Skull Merchant's kit is overstacked. It's got too much in it. Skull Merchant has very punishing Anti-Loop, both at shutting down loops with a drone to force survivors to leave, as well as perfect information for when they do leave after they've been scanned a single time. She also has some degree of global slowdown, between broken and forcing survivors to slowly approach gens, hexes and/or hooks she protects, and even breaking her drones gives her information she can capitalise on. The video posted by @Skillfulstone explains it with very good argumentation.
The speed boost is an issue to my mind. She already has the power to shut down loops, she can get perfect knowledge on mind games, she can force you to stay or take a hit, and then to top it all off she can get a 13% speed swing between her Hindered effect and speed boost that just makes downs trivial.
I'm not claiming my idea is perfect, but I also don't believe "Just delete her" is at all reasonable or helpful. Some people actually like Skull Merchant and want her to be good and fun. The motivation for my suggestion is she needs to lose something from her kit. We could be boring and say "Just remove her speed boost", or we could be a little more creative and tie it to her 'excitement of seeing the terror in her victims' or something, hence attaching it to her TR, with some trade offs imposed accordingly vs. Her very power anti-loop.
It's not the only option. I've suggested elsewhere make her a 4.4 killer and give her a flat 3% boost when there is a scanned survivor, and a flat 5% when there is a claw trapped survivor, making her 4.4, 4.52 and 4.6 respectively. At 4.4m/s at least her near uncounterable anti loop and all her effects are somewhat justified cause she can be pre-run quite effectively.
If you have better suggestions I'm all ears, but I for one really want to break this "Skull Merchant sucks and there is no hope for her" mindset a lot of people have.
Switching the traps to always use scan lines was a great change. Her unavoidable AoE was dumb, but having to sneak past her traps to disarm or work under them was a solid change. She has the potential to be pretty good if people smarter than me would engage their minds in the conversation.
Maybe she is fine as is, if you want to argue that, then sure, I'll happily listen.
-
@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614607#Comment_3614607
Undetectable killer with power around TR, genious...
That's precisely the point, setting up a drone at loops isn't free, you lose your speed buff 🙃
-
Given Rebecca's place in RE1 as the safe haven character, it would be nice if this perk granted something with that idea. E.g. Rebecca has a 14% buff to healing flat, and whenever Rebecca is healing or being healed her aura is revealed to all survivors, which then applies all the afformentioned buffs.
Efit: Or maybe while healing, her and the person she's healing aura cannot be read.
-
I preferred the suggestion of a 3.5s stun (to account for 1s to drop), and preventing the killer from using their power for 7s.
Just because Decisive Strike against Blight, Wesker and Nurse is not equal to Decisive Strike vs.Trapper, Pig and Myers.
Edit: However no, DS can't stop tunneling, what DS does is give the tunneled player a chance to fight back, and a bit more time to try and do something in the game rather than just getting crushed out of the game.
-
Its at this moment I realise I want a Nicholas Cage vs. Chucky film.
-
Whether I'm playing killer or survivor, I love the snowskulls.
It has not ceased to be funny, no matter what is going on in the game.
-
This buff has been suggested for a number of gen aura perks.... and I feel Rookie Spirit is the best one for it.
-
Oh? Interesting conclusion. How do you explain:
- Pyramid Head
- Wesker
- Blight
- Oni
Being less disliked than:
- Trapper
- Pig
- Pinhead
- Hag
?
-
I wonder how an add on to make his dash have significantly slower acceleration, but increase the duration of his faster his turn speed would play out as an easier to control version for controller...
The hope would be an easier to use, but significantly less effective version of his chainsaw power compared to a skilled Billy... but ofc, could easily become a dumbed down version for PC players too... 🤔