UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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I basically operate on a don't be blatant principle.
I play serious for 10 hooks (typically will let the last go), but I don't tunnel, camp hooks, camp Pig boxes, excessively slug, run dirty perk combos or play overly mean. I will usually give bambi survivors a chance, such as if someone accidently runs into me when DoH, I will usually down them and let them get picked up again... basically everyone has one free grace point.
However... any survivor doing the following: -
- teabagging pallets or windows.
- unhooking under my nose.
- body blocking me with DS, DH or OTR.
- trying to hang around for flashlight/pallet saves.
- sabotaging hooks under me.
- going down in a far corner with a destroyed hook where I can't hook you (yes I will bleed you out).
- run back in my way after I've already given you a free pass.
Then its all fair game. If you want my attention, you get it.
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Looking back through the history of DBD, I think its hard to top Hillbilly's nerf.
Freddy at least you can argue that there was a review bomb campaign, back in a time where such a thing could have killed the game.
The various perk nerfs have the argument that although they were fun for one side, they were usually obnoxious for the other...
Other fixes do at least have some sense when you think about it even when you don't agree...
However Hillbilly's instasaw nerf was just flabbergasting. He was as close to perfect as a killer at that time could be, loved by both survivors and killers alike... those changes completely tackled the wrong part of the problem, and while I wasn't here, my trip through the annuls of DBD history hasn't seen such a blatant misfire as that was.
I don't have an issue with the concept of an overheat mechanic being a part of a killers design, but to staple on such a radical change when you already got almost everything right, and only need to tackle a couple of add-ons was... quite unbelievable... like taking a flamethrower to light a match.
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@NomiNomad said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609183#Comment_3609183
Good to see you again!
I was excited back then - But only because i thought it would be more interesting at the time. I disliked the fact that Freddy as basically an m1 killer without anything else other than pulling survivors into his world.
I still enjoyed Jackie's performance, but I'll always appreciate the classics.
Jackie I think was an excellent cast.
I can't remember the film all that well, but I remember my conclusion. I think the 2 big mistakes for him were:
- He wasn't given enough moments to talk and really give him that "Oh hell naw" feeling. Freddy was always as much a psychological manipulator as he was a sadist, and his kills always felt like they weren't just nasty, they were personal. Sometimes this went goofy ofc, but for the most part, kills were drawn out and torturous as well as brutal. I don't remember getting that feeling from his Freddy, ehich was more a writing issue than his.
- His makeup made him look like a legit burn victim. He couldn't really move his face under that makeup, and couldn't draw that sinister smile, or twisted look, whete his face was so immobile. He basically ended up looking kinda frail instead of scary, where you kinda felt sorry for him...
I actually really wanted him to get another chance at Freddy, cause his voice and his intensity were spot on, but those 2 flaws that weren't really his fault let him down.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609194#Comment_3609194
Adrenaline no longer wakes up survivors... because why?
Actually, I can answer that.
Adrenaline waking survivors up was introduced together with patch 1.8.1, also known as "the Freddy nerf". Essentially, Freddy on-release was different from the Old Freddy most people know about. I still think that on-release Freddy is the best killer the devs have ever designed.
Sadly, a free weekend happened at the time. Many new players didn't bother to try and learn how to play against Freddy and instead just complained, called him "OP" and "impossible to escape" and all of that stuff we know.
He was nerfed a week later, and Adrenaline is a part of that nerf.
If you want to read more about it, here it is:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_Notes_1.8.X#Patch_1.8.1
Yeah the history of Freddy is equal parts interesting and tragic... 😅
I like your suggestion BTW! Don't think I actually said in my post above! One thing I would like is some kind of indicator when teleporting where it'll tell me where I'll be facing, or have me move rapidly there instead of a sudden switch, so I can keep my bearings and isn't quite as disorientating.
The teleport is cool part of his kit, especially with the blood spewing from the Generators. Would that be something you would have visible only in the dream? Or always?
If my hybrid microsleep idea is worth a damn, might be cool tacking it on to that 😁
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609071#Comment_3609071
He isn't really fun as of now, but he used to be. That doesn't mean he didn't need QoL improvements, he certainly did, but Freddy used to be way more fun and unique than he currently is.
Please, let me share with ya my idea for a Freddy change. I'd love to have your feedback:
Power: Dream Demon
Pull survivors into the Dream World
-Survivors who are awake do not see The Nightmare.
-Once targeted by The Nightmare’s power, survivors enter the Dream Transition for 7 seconds.
-During the Dream Transition Survivors can see The Nightmare intermittently and they suffer from the Incapacitated status effect.
-When the Dream Transition Lapse, the Survivor is pulled into the Dream World.
Once in the Dream World:
-Survivor’s auras are revealed to The Nightmare when they are outside of his terror radius.
-Survivors suffer an action speed penalty of 40%.
-To exit the Dream World, Survivors can find non-sleeping Survivors to perform a wake up action.
-Failed Skill Checks can also wake up.
-Hooked Survivors wake up.
Special Ability: Dream Projection
-Teleport to a Generator in view. Releasing the button early will cancel the action.
-Survivors cannot interact with the targeted Generator.
“You have nothing to worry about. This won’t hurt one… little… bit.” -Freddy Krueger
I have been thinking about OG Freddy a while, and I do think his old power suits him way more and want it to return... but I think some of new Freddy's kit can be utilised for the QoL improvements, as you have here with the Teleport.
I personally don't think the failed skill checks waking up Survivors is a good mechanic. It makes it RNG driven as to whether or not you can escape the dresm on your own. I also thought his rapid snatching people into the dream world seemed like something you just spam when in range.
Ofc that was Freddy's whole gameplan, keep people in the dream, but this rapid bouncing in and out of the dream world seems odd to me.
An idea I've been toying with is: -
- Survivors have a pool of 80 microsleep in the trial, but cannot see their microsleep progress. They gain microsleep at a rate of 1 c/s (80s). This mimics the tension of the films in that you don't know you're falling asleep.
- Conspicuous actions double the rate at which this builds to 2 c/s (40s). Straining yourself causes you to fall asleep faster.
- Survivors who have maximum charges see Freddy intermittently, and can be attacked as normal, injuring them and pulling them into the dream. Making a loud noise notification also pulls them into the dream. Mimics the sudden surprise transition of the films where the victim realises they are in the dream and can be injured only when Freddy actually wounds them... good jump scares. Also offers counterplay where survivors can choose to enter the Dream.
- Freddy can see this progress on each survivor and can channel his power on a nearby target survivor to add 8 c/s (10s from full). Channeled power makes pulling survivors in a little more deliberate, and naturally encourages Freddy away from tunneling, because other targets will take less time to transition.
- Channeled surviors who reach max charges are immediately pulled into the Dream. So Freddy can exert slow down pressure on a micro-sleeping/near micro sleeping target while chasing other survivors if he pays attention.
- Skill check misses no longer wake Survivors up. Being asleep isn't countered by RNG of stealth checks or Self Care shenanigans.
- Survivors outside of the dream can wake up dreaming allies using the wakeup action. Normal counterplay, and now actually useful as skillchecks aren't a thing.
- Dreaming Survivors see a Dream wakeup station (blood fountain, steam jet, red hot pipe) the survivor interacts with to wake up, and gain immunity from microsleep. If wake up from allies isn't possible, survivor can race Freddy to their wake up station... for the love of god something better than clocks...
- Each WakeUp action / WakeUp station action taken will add 2 seconds to the time it takes to wake up the survivor. Counters SWFs constantly trading sleep.
- Adrenaline no longer wakes up survivors... because why?
This keeps bouncing in and out of the dream less common, and means survivors have a race to the Wake Up station vs. Freddy.
It also gives Freddy some limited immediate chase pressure if a survivor is microsleeping/near microsleeping.
It's kinda half baked at the moment, but I think it could be fun and quite immersive for survivors with a bit more thought/polish.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3608780#Comment_3608780
That might have been somewhat close to the truth before but not anymore. With a 90° cap the survivor only needs to move around a corner and will always be save. They cannot do that against a Blight (thankfully) but it works against Chucky.
If they really wanted to nerf him, then they could have done something else. The nerf is less of an issue than them removing the mechanical skill expression and utility of his Slice & Dice because that's what made him fun to play for many people. I would rather they nerf him in any other way, if they have to. I'd prefer a 45 seconds cooldown on a fun and strong power over an 18 seconds cooldown on a power that's mediocre and boring to play with.
If I wanted to play a killer that is just strong and didn't care about fun, I'd play Slog Merchant. But being boring to play is the worst fate a killer in this game can have. Because it drastically reduces the amount of players interested in playing them.
Having a little more knowledge on this "tech" now...
Doesn't a more reasonable change seem to be to increase the turn angle at base as needed, rather than limit the power of the character to people who quickly look down, turn and look back up again? Logically if a character has a 90 degree turn arc, that can be completely bypassed by players on certain control schemes (i.e. mouse, not controller), and that same tech is what is required to make the character viable... wouldn't a better approach be to just increase this turn angle flat?
Like I respect yours and @HugTechLover's skill and experience, but isn't keeping this tech the wrong way to go about balancing the killer?
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Resurrecting this thread rather than making a new thread. Had a conversation with @Archol123 the other day about survivor information, and as part of that conversation I got thinking about Survivor loadouts being visible in lobbies.
With regards to behaviours statement regarding how soloQ and SWFs can be brought in line, this was Mike's response
A: We always monitor the difference between survivor groups (SWF and solo) and our current stance is that lack of information is not the crux of the problem, but rather that friends work together by nature and solo survivors don't (as much). -Mike"
This got me thinking about this suggestion, and the main reason soloQ struggle to work together is they don't know what each other have.
Archol123 pointed out you can just ask in lobby, which is true if you're all on PC, but if you're cross platform, or on console, you can't... so given cross platform communication isn't really possible, this change strikes me as more important.
If I know what my team is taking, I can adapt accordingly to their play. I
- If I see a lack of information perks in the team, I can take Deliverance and Kindred, maybe even Open Handed to help my team out with info.
- If I see a player with Decisive Strike that I saved off hook run in behind me, I know to let them take a protection hit for me, instead of being confused and trying to take one for them. I can even be ready to run to blind with a flashlight to blind them while stunned so they don't get tunneled.
- If I see a team full of chase perks, I can take perks with strong healing like WMI or Botany Knowledge and maybe some gen based perks to focus on a different part of the game.
- If I see someone going for David adept, I know to try and get that person out at all costs. May take Sabotage and Breakout or something to prevent him being focused.
SoloQ can't work together well because we don't know what is in play to be able to work together.
To address some of the points in this thread about lobby shopping, 1 addition I feel would help is a low priority queue. If you dodge, you get placed in a low priority queue where other players regular go ahead of you to resolve matchmaking. Have a little message on the lobby search saying "low priority queue" to get the message across.
Not to mention the fact, that if you play with players who dodge, they're likely the type to pitch a fit and suicide on hook anyway.
So I feel the opposite of most here, I feel the benefits far outweigh the negatives.
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I read the patch notes, seems like this was always an intended limitation on his power, and bugs need to fixed to be able to assess a power properly.
I'm not condemning it yet without seeing it in action, but I presume this is to prevent those max range charges with a 180 degree turn midway around terrain that still reached you anyway... Those hits felt pretty BS when they happened.
Hopefully doesn't hit anything more than that.... but I have a feeling that's not the case.
Edit: BHVR may be still open to the idea of reverting it if it cripples him, they seem to have listened to the Trickster mains and given him back their 15s laceration decay, which is what they were most upset about losing, and a few additional buffs in toe which look promising.
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Is it really in need of an additional affect? It's a pretty good perk for messing with perk synergies and creating builds even without even thinking about the FOV.
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@DMB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605650#Comment_3605650
That's a bad narrative to paint in saying the player never played the game?As they did play the game the just didn't win.
Every player and trial are different?Whatever happens to that survivor in the trial can still be considered play time as it still counts in the game hours you mass overtime 🫤
You ever play tag at school and have the person who was "it" only ever chase their crush and nobody else?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607331#Comment_3607331
Technically I'm advocating for a completely different change that basically removes the gap of information between solo and swf, but for the sake of the argument let's go with this...
If you are in chase with the killer and the survivors can see your aura, does this give you that much more information than being in voice with your boys that just call out exactly where he is getting chased. In both cases there is choice... You can choose to look at the aura of the guy in chase and figure out where he is getting looped and what not and when you are in voice with the boys they can tell you the exact same thing... In both cases you have the choice, you can also play with your boys without voice... everything leaves you the option to just not do that.
I find it a weird argument to say they always go against Nurse or Blight... I don't think there is much data on that and even the 4 men escape squad around Hens does not only face Nurse or Blight despite them having like 130 escapes in a row or what not as of right now? I also don't think the term sweaty is fitting, because it kind of negates the skill of those people, sure they are playing for the win but just because people are trying to win at all costs does not necessarily mean they are able to or are good players... So that phrase is a little bit poorly worded.
I don't really think you would need that much of a buff to the lower tier killers to be honest, because just because people would be able to play more efficient does not necessarily mean they are suddenly better players you could still easily win if you are better than them and the killer you are playing is semi decent. Honestly buffing Myers up to that is probably way easier than Trapper, because Trapper is just so much hit or miss...
Well technically you already have the option to know your teammates perks... You could just ask them, but apparently you chose not to because it is not really convenient, they won't necessarily answer you or are unable to answer since they are from a differnet platform that does not support text chat or what not. Seeing the others loadouts would be nice, but I don't think it is enough to bridge the gap, not even close.
The main advantage swf has is increased efficiency, more information all around and if you are trying to win, the knowledge of having good players every time you queue up because you know your teammates. If you look at the really good survivor streaks they barely run perk synergy, they even limit their loadouts, but what they do really well is play strategically with all the knowledge they aquire and share, and that is exaclty is the main difference between solo and swf. Sure it can also allow you for more synergy, but barely anyone does that.
Well technically you already have the option to know your teammates perks... You could just ask them, but apparently you chose not to because it is not really convenient.
Just to correct a misconception there, I am on console. Unless they are on PS5 I cannot ask them as there is no lobby chat on console. Even if they are on PS5, it is extremely slow going typing that message on a person by person case, and unless I want to invite them all to a party chat, its a no go. So on PC, sure you can ask about perks, on console you can't.
This is also a reason why in game voice chat is not necessarily viable, because this game is cross platform, and each platform has its own voice chat system. PS5 has discord, but Xbox doesn't (unless I missed an update somewhere), and I'm darned sure Switch doesn't either.
In both cases there is choice... You can choose to look at the aura of the guy in chase and figure out where he is getting looped and what not and when you are in voice with the boys they can tell you the exact same thing...
I'm not being a jerk, but genuinely I don't understand this statement... I think what you mean is that by adding this feature soloQ and SWF are at the same level, I have choice of auras, or auras and listening to voice chat? My main issue with this is that I personally feel that having comms is an unfair advantage over the killer, especially stealth killers and killers lacking map mobility, so as such, I'm against bringing the whole survivor side up to the same level, and that is speaking as a soloQ survivor.
The killers unaffected are the ones like Spirit, Blight and Nurse that have really good map travesal and strong anti loop power, where the advantage of comms is greatly diminished, and by the same token the advantage of auras is greatly diminished. After all a Pig has to commit to chase far longer than your average Nurse or Blight, so against Pig you can read the Kindred aura of the survivor she is chasing and maneuver around her easily for an uncontested unhook. Against Blight and Nurse who can quickly come back to hook, doesn't care you can see where they are chasing, because they can get back to hook far quicker without losing a lot of momentum. Comms in short, disproportionately punishes weaker killers than stronger ones.
The main advantage swf has is increased efficiency, more information all around and if you are trying to win, the knowledge of having good players every time you queue up because you know your teammates.
To be fair, a big reason I'm against this change is because I don't like SWFs either. I know I can't ask for SWFs to be removed from the game as it would massively downturn the games foot fall, but I also know there is no way to police comms... so that is a necessary evil I have to accept. However by bringing soloQ to the same level with quite a large basekit information buff creates the same imbalance vs. immobile and non anti-loop killers, and I don't belive this level of suvivor infomration should be the game standard, SWF or no.
So I will admit to a certain level of bias, but to my mind, the game would lose a lot fo interest for me if I have SWF level information while playing soloQ
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607275#Comment_3607275
I don't want to add that thing and then just keep it that way for 70% of killers to be useless, the point is to integrate a bridge between swf and solo to somewhat put them on the same level and then balance around it... Nobody is forcing you to use the tools you will have and if you value your immersion more you should be able to disable such things, but I don't think using communication in a team game is an unfair advantage, it just feels like the devs close their eyes in front of this difference and don't want to do anything to close the gap fully... Which I just cannot understand, this game is missing so many things that were standard overa decade ago... Replay mode, certain settings, ingame chat,... Just think about how long it took them to get a search bar... It is unbelievable how bad this game is from a technical standpoint... And that did not even take into consideration the spaghetti code that breaks random things every patch.
Yeah I get your point, but balancing around basekit Kindred survivor aura will prove to hit all the weaker killers harder than the top tiers due to the aforementioned chase info that survivors get to reveal the killer to the whole team.
There is a reason why sweat SWFs always go against Nurse and Blight, cause comms doesn't mean sod all vs. them. If we gives solo survivors similar level of info to rival SWF comms... we are substantially nerfing all the weaker killers. There is no way around that point and they'll need monster buffs to compensate, otherwise the gulf between Top tiers and Low tiers will be even more pronounced... and I'm not sure it's even possible to buff those killers to a point they are engaging to go against, where comms level aura read isn't a substantial factor.
It's basically a complete game rework, and someone like Trapper or Myers need buffs out the wazoo to even stay relevant. Not to mention the aforementioned immersion loss... if Kindred survivor aura is basekit, I have to use it. There is no uncertainty of whether I should go or not, the decision is easy, cause I have all the information already.
This is why what I want for Survivor is the ability to see teammate perks in lobby first. Its a far less game altering change, that doesn't need 70% of the roster to be rebalanced. If I can see them in lobby, I can see we lack information reading, and I can make the conscious decision to take Kindred in my build to help my team with Info.
As with my previous example, I can take Deliverance and Kindred, and I can get max value that combo to make up for the teams lack of info. I think the main advantage of SWF is you are aware of each others perks, and can create synergies and/or play more optimally around each others loadouts. This is the next big thing that SWF needs, way ahead of Kindred basekit, and a lot of the issues that need Kindred basekit go away with this change.
It's a far easier change that doesn't completely shaft weaker killers and flood the screen with primary colours without at least it being my choice to do so or not.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607249#Comment_3607249
It is not about whether or not people run clock callous but about the tools they can use... Nobody forces you to constantly check on the auras of all survivors to perhaps know where the killer is... It is about having the information if you want it, the same communication offers you, we could as well just add communication for survivors and bridging the gap this way... It is not about free information, it is about tools people already have and other s that don't... And if you think all those perks become redundant if you had some more features then ask yourself why 4men never run them... Because they don't need to because they already have all that information... Don't get me wrong I don't find it unfair that swf has this information, I just find it a bad balancing choice to ignore these seperatgroups of players and not take this into account for balancing.
I understand completely man, but it depends on your perspective of which way you want to slider to move. I personally consider playing SWF to be playing with an unfair advantage. It is long known that for most killers in this game outside of Blight and Nurse, that a dedicated team of organised players will comfortably beat the killer.
The standard model is SoloQ < Killer < SWF. This is why in competition there are limits on the numbers of certain perks, and other perks./add-ons are outright banned.... The point i want to get across here, is we are proposing to basically give survivors enough aura abilities to be as good as the comms in an organised SWF at basekit.
If that is what we're doing, why stop at the survivor aura? Why not just reveal the killer aura whenever any player can see him in their FOV? I realise that is an asinine argument, but you get my point. Giving survivors aura reading to the level of an advanced comms comp team is pretty darned imbalanced, wouldn't you say?
To share an anecdote, I get games with SoloQ players that are very good, and some of the best games I have had are good SoloQ teammates with no comms. Great immersion, lots of tension, huge exhilarating moments, where I myself and my teammates pull off something unbelivable to win the game. Whenever I'm in a SWF (which is a new recent thing for me), it is fun chatting to people, but the disparity of power is kinda boring. I tend to avoid taking really strong perks and add-ons, and instead play more memey and fun builds, and will not take powerful toolboxes to help me out, because otherwise it is just cheap and boring.
I do not want the power of SWF, because to me it destroys the tension of the game, it becomes purely mechanical. The uncertainty and immersion is what makes the game exciting. Frustrating as well sure, but you can't have the highs without the lows.
Thinking about Kindred specifically, unfortunately I do not get to decide what information I am given with this change. If I see the Killer chasing David on the HUD, and I can see David's aura, I know where the Killer is. If I see Nea on a 75% gen, and can see her aura crouched repairing, I know where that generator is. I don't get to not know this information.
So ultimately whatever immersion I have in DBD is completely killed by having this aura perk at base, by virtue of the fact I can that I can have all it's benefits without any of the trade offs. I take a full line of survival perks and never have to look at an info perk, cause the base info is as good as SWF comms.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606611#Comment_3606611
Doesn’t Quentin Smith’s wake up does the same with the exit gates?
Yes, but Wake Up is a guaranteed 25%, and you can see the aura of the exit gates once powered globally.
My idea with this perk change is to be able to see exit gates throughout the trial as well as gens within a 32m radius, and get a small boost to opening the gate for each gen that you personally complete (Not the team, you personally have to be repairing the gen when it pops. The code exists already for certain challenges).
You could in theory repair all 5 gens for effectively the same value as Wake Up (ofc minus the global aura read, you should have hopefully figured out the gates earlier on in the trial), but chances are that is not gonna happen.
The quirk I'm going for it this perk allows you to easily find the gens and gate you want to get repaired, and serves a similar function to the combined bonus of Deja Vu and Wake up... however it is certainly weaker than both, and only has the benefit of taking 1 perk slot.
Edit: An Example Build for this being really nice would be:
- Exhaustion Perk of Choice
- (new) Visionary
- Open Handed
- Kindred/Bond
It's a pure info build (with a getaway), that will give you good gen aura read, good survivor aura read, and good early Gate aura read.
Alternatively you could stack this with Wake Up for a chance at a pretty heft gate opening bonus, which would be helpful for 1vs.1s.
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Follow Up:
The change I would want for SoloQ is the ability to see the builds of my fellow survivors so I could change my build to adapt to theirs.
It would help to ensure you play into each others perks, and not accidently stuff each other over by playing out of line with other perks (e.g trying risky pick ups on a Decisive Strike player, or try to unhook for Deliverance).
Deliverance BTW becomes even stronger with basekit Kindred BTW. It could well be adding this feature sees more people actively take Deliverance/Kindred because they notice a lack of info reading in their team builds. This combo would allow you to give your team a whole minute of full team aura read.
This is really the change that soloQ needs.
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Even as a regular soloQ player, I am gonna say no, I would prefer not to have any part of Kindred being basekit, because it gives way more information than you think, and the Killers counter is proxy camping.
Having all other survivors auras globally up whenever a player is hooked is a LOT of information, especially if you combine it with the HUD. Players get hooked often in this game, and can be left up to nearly a whole minute to give the whole team of survivors a lot of value. Like if I said, l "How about a global info perk that gives me all survivor auras for 50% of the game?", I would hope you would tell me to get stuffed. However that is basically the proposition here.
As well as survivor locations, it tells you Gen positions and their progress by matching survivors to their gen. It tells you where players needing healing are. It even tells you where the Killer is. Seeing a player get chased while a player is hooked, or even just deducing their movement will tell you exactly where the killer is, and be perfect knowledge for you to know to go for the save yourself. This encourages killers to proxy camp, cause if they know all survivors can see where they are the moment a chase begins, they also know other survivors are coming for the save. There is no reason to commit to the fleeing survivor, cause another one is coming the moment you leave.
Also by adding this change, you kill a lot of info perks, cause their value is drastically diminished, or in some cases made almost completely pointless. Perks like: -
- Bond
- Empathy
- Blood Pact
- Aftercare
- Open Handed
There is no reason to run any of them, because Kindred will already give you a lot of information value... not to mention this also kills Kindred as well, as especially with the AFC, it'll basically do nothing worthwhile. Even the Killer's aura might not be shown to you cause of the bubble.
Basically it means survivor get a lot of info for free, and all of them can take more survival based perks, because their basekit Kindred info gives them most of what they need anyway.
A game that centres around builds needs trade offs. Your perks and Tools/add-ons alliw you to have builds with Survival, Gen Progress, Team Recovery, Information or Utility. You need to decide what concessions you're gonna make with your build. If you overload survivors with basekit information, you dumb down the choices survivors have to make for the requirementa of their build.
As a mostly solo player, I understand SWF advantage, but for most players, they aren't running the clock system to point out where they are, and what the killler is doing. I genuinely believe that having as much info as Kindred provides for free does not sound good or healthy for the game.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/399990/predator-buff-to-at-least-be-a-benefit
I think we should just give this perk something entirely new... Because with this change still nobody would run it... So why even bother.
Not that I disagree... however let's be honest... with so many perks in the game, the pool for ideas is going to get more and more shallow, and unless it's as good as meta perks (e.g. Pain Res or Pop level value), no one will run it anyway except for fun build runners.
Like legit the only way you would get people to run this perk regularly is if you gave it something silly like you can see scratch marks through walls or something, which would be busted on Spirit, Nurse, Knight, Blight, Artist,Wesker, etc.
So the goal isn't to make it meta. It'll never be meta. However at least it could be used for madcap and goofy builds without actively weakening you.
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If you know it's in play, if you're the obsession, you can hide in a locker to prevent the aura read, assuming you don't have Distortion, and as long as you watch out for your teammates going down, you shouldn't be caught by it unless you're really not paying attention.
A scream after a hook on the obsession is certainly not a big deal.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
I don't think anyone runs this perk, probably because there are better perks out there.
What if this perk got an additional function - you see gens auras anywhere from white to red, depending on the progress they have? (kind of like Wraith's and Legion's IRI addons)
Deja Vu is the perk that makes Visionary obsolete. While this is a nice buff, it will still fall short I think... this feels like it would be a nice buff to Rookie Spirit, as that perk gives pseudo tracking of the killer, and this would increase the value of that tracking to be worth considering.
Tbh I feel like Deja Vu is a perk I'd be happy to run even without the repair boost, the permanent 3 gen reveal in of itself is pretty good, however if we don't have an intention of nerfing Deja Vu (which I don't), it needs an additional effect giving it value.
Off top of my head, I'd give Visionary maybe something like: -
- Remove the cooldown.
- It also reveals the Gate Levers within a 32m radius during the entire trial.
- For each gen you personally complete you gain a token. For each token you gain a 5% boost to opening the gate.
This would make it a weaker version of Wake Up and Deja Vu, but it allows you to have the subdued benefits of both for only 1 perk slot. it would allow you to plan which gens you might wanna save for an easy path to gate, which fits the description of the perk quite nicely and provides some options. Range would be nice with Open handed.
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Myers Tombstone Perk basically 😁
Now I think about it, I might try this on Plague though... it might be boss 🤔
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606332#Comment_3606332
"Stronger... with the right build... kinda? I use it a bit"
what build did you use? I don't wanna force mft vaule by throwing myself at the killer with anti tunnel perks (DH/DS/OTR)
@UndeddJester said:
So since the nerf, MFT has been in a sharp decline of usage, but I've actually been enjoying experimenting with using it recently. My best build thus far is: -
- Made For This
- We're Gonna Live Forever
- Botany Knowledge
- Balanced Landing (or your choice of Exhaustion perk).
It's like a none scummy version of FTP and Buckle Up. Between Botany and WGLF, a slug is healed within 6.4 seconds from full, and a standing heal is 10.67, both of which give you endurance if you complete the heal while injured.
Even if you get interrupted from the heal by taking a hit, you can usually finish it off and get your endurance. Because it's not got the obvious health exchange of FTP, fewer Killers expect it and on top you get the 3% speed from MFT if you tank a hit.
Sure it's not quite as strong as FTP+Buckle Up, and requires more perks, but it does have some niche scenarios that it performs better, and I generally have found it much more fun to use.
Do you have any fun builds that have made use of MFT?
This one is quite nice. Probably not the strongest build out there, but it is fun to use. You mostly use it for the endurance on heal effect, if you get the 3% as well, then aces.
Instead of Botany Knowledge you can take We'll Make It as well, if you can get both WGLF and WMI going at the same time, that works really nicely, but BK doesn't need an unhook first, so is a fallback to atill have chances to get value from MFT.
It's not a dead perk, its fun to build around. Question is how much of a meta sheep do you want to be?
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There is some clunk that could be ironed out.
A search filter giving a list of matching cosmetics like we have for perks would be nice.
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I remember when I was still new new, and learning Pig as my first killer, I was playing on Garden of Joy.
I downed and trapped a Chris Redfield and went on my way to hunt more, I crouched a lot back then and needless to say, it was slow going finding survivors. Long story short Chris eventually died to his head trap. I didn't have nasty add ons or chased him off boxes or anything, I was busy struggling to work out where survivors were, and I'd read don't chase a trapped survivor, protect gens instead.
After checking the upstairs gen, I crouched out of the front door of Main, and there was Chris dead in the middle of the map, like a dead mouse a cat had left in front of the porch. All the survivors were gathered round him nodding and crouch pointing at him.
They saw me and started pointing at me... like an accusatory mob. I laughed and in my mind thought "this is funny, we'll reset and start chases in a minute". Cosmic Cheryl walked up to me and pointed in my face... I now know that was booping the snoot, but at that point I had never seen players do this before, so I saw that as my queue to leave. I backed up, stood and ran upstairs to reset.
Looking back at it now, it looked like I was poked in the nose and I had Amanda run away like an upset teen being ridiculed by her peers xD
In the end noone ever ran away, and I think I had a mori equipped cause I wanted to see what Pig's mori was... so I eventually I ended up killing Cosmic Cheryl... like coming back as the awkward kid taking revenge on my high school bully xD
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Was a lot said, but @Devil_hit11 sums it perfectly. Obsession perks provide a new avenue for different perks to exist. With 3 perks a go per character, the game is pretty saturated perk-wise, as there are only so many ways you can modify gameplay meaningfully... and removing the obsession mechanic limits you further.
I personally don't think there is anything wrong with obsession mechanic inherently, its down to the perks themselves on a case by case how bad it is, and with that in mind there are a few statements I disagree on:
- STBFL/Dying light you can't really call targetting 3/4 survivors tunneling. Also if the obsession works out what is going on, survivors have counterplay.
- You can't call Dark Devotion tunneling the obsession, as it only works putting the obsession in the injured state. To get value from the perk, you actually don't tunnel, as you've only got 30s to get to another survivor, otherwise you're only using it to get rid of your red light vs. 1 specific player, which isnt really needed.
- Furtive Chase used to be garbage, but now has a pretty potent effect, that would be busted if it was always granted, but ties to the obsession mechanic to make it a perk that needs additional perk investment to get good value (obsession switching and aura read).
- Friends Til The End is pretty decent to my understanding. If you hook anyone other that the obsession you get a long 10s aura read on them, that isn't affected by distance, and will punish survivors not paying attention or playing risky. If you hook the obsession, you get a scream so you still have a heading. This almost always give you a target to go for unless survivors use lockers/perks to prevent it, and synergises well to improve a lot of the previous perks... e.g. Furtive Chase, Dark Devotion.
- Rancor gives plenty of warning to the obsession, and can even be used to a survivors advantage if they know what they're doing. I wouldn't call it unfun personally.
- OoO seems like a reasonable trade off vs. Lethal Pursuer. Lethal is a strong perk, so having this counter it is reasonable. Undetectable makes the stealth reveal a moot point. Stealth killers like Myers and Wraith don't care, and GF/Chucky don't care either if he's fast to use his power. Pig cares, but Lethal on Pig is a bit quirky. The switch is actually beneficial to you, as now you get the aura reading and repair buff whenever revealed, without constantly getting ot proc when you don't want it. The comms reveal is an issue sure, but this does come with the risk of being tunneled, and if you have OoO vs. a Nurse or Blight especially... Good luck.
Not trying to rubbish your post or anything, but these are the flaws with the arguments to my mind.
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@Xernoton said:
Honestly, these are nice suggestions but I think they could be turned up a little bit. Maybe give him a 20% resistance to stuns in tier 3 and allow him to quickly break pallets and breakable walls with a M1 (1.5 seconds, unaffected by perks) at the cost of 15% (maybe a bit more, depending on how much of an impact this would have) of his remaining tier 3 duration as well.
Basically he could play more and more oppressive the closer he gets to losing tier 3. When he loses tier 3 however, I would have him fatigue to be slowed down by 10% for 1.5 seconds.
One of my main issues with Myers is, that he invests a good amount of time just staring at survivors. The pay off needs to be very high and super oppressive to balance that out. He also doesn't feel like this unstoppable force when he enters tier 3, which is what my suggestion tries to change.
That's actually quite a nice additional buff with a equally nice trade off, and does fit Michael's unstoppable/relentless pursuit idea.
Being able to trade in EW3 for a pallet break gives some nice counterplay where throwing a pallet earlier can potentially buy the time off EW3 which may be preferable to going for the stun. A smart Myers could ofc bait that to gain distance or to go for a sneaky hit.
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As in you have 2 different PSN accounts?
I'm afraid that's out of BHVRs hands. PlayStation, Xbox, Steam, Nintendo Live, no platform I know of supports this.
You can link accounts, but a full merge is a no no I'm afraid.
If you are using the same PSN account on both ps4 and ps5, it should automatically transfer over, as that was fixed thia year in August or so?
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In Depth Points of Discussion
Michael's Identity:
Myers is a much beloved character in DBD, arguably being the catalyst to really kick off the success of DBD.
Broadly speaking he is a stealth character with a charge up mechanic leading to the power to instant down, like a cross between Nemesis and Ghost Face.
Unlike other characters he doesn't have particular strong anti loop, other than that his instant down m1s brings him (which isn't much), and he also has no inherent slowdown in his kit.
What he has in its place is both the power and/or threat of instantly executing survivors regardless of hook stages via usage of his add-ons. This kill power makes Myers unique, and an entity to be feared.
What makes him weak?
Myers can quite directly be compared to Ghost Face, and since Ghost Face it considered reasonably well balanced, this helps us define Michael's problems quite well.
1) Slow Start Up/Weak Stalk
Myers big issue is his start up is painfully slow. Unlike Ghost Face who can start working immediately, EW1 forces Myers to stalk to get out of his slow movement before he can even really do anything. After that he has to then get out of EW2 to be anything more than a standard killer with a small TR. This slow down is not compensated for with a credible level of threat once he does get going. The insta down of EW3 is decent, but other than a slightly better lunge and vault speed, he doesn't get much beyond your standard M1 killer. This is all made quite a lot worse by a hefty drop off from range as he stalk.
2) All or Nothing Stalk
GF stalks on a per player basis, stalk faster, stay cloaked, and can pre stalk players then save them until later. Myers stalk is slower, and when he does pop EW3, it's all or nothing. Once his EW3 goes, he has a timer to make it count, and more often than not he struggles to get realistically more than 1 survivor before he's back to stalking again. This is compounded by the fact there is a limit to the amount he can stalk survivors. At base he can get 2 EW levels per survivor, and after that, he has no power.
3) Weaker Stealth
Unlike GF, Myers cannot lower his profile or mind game with his TR. He stands tall with his big white face gleaming against the Skyline, and cannot alter his terror radius as necessary for different scenarios. This makes actually getting your stalk going much harder on Myers, as any survivor paying even remote attention can see you and start running.
As described earlier his stalk drop off is harsh, so actually getting close to make meaningful progress on stalk frustratingly difficult.
4) Results
All of this manifests as Myers requiring the immediate Kill power of Tombstone Piece (and the uncertainty of if he has it) to keep him relevant, this is the power spike that makes him threatening to offset all of these weaknesses, however it is also insanely hard to balance.
What makes Myers good/fun? What do we want from him?
1) Lore Accurate
Myers is impressively lore accurate, arguably one of the best adaptions of any licensed character in DBD. Especially with his instant kill add-ons, he very much feels true to the films. He starts off slow, and ramps up throughout the course of the game to become a monster to be feared.
The big ramp up is the only part he lacks without Tombstone Piece, he is missing the big crunch when his power should kick into high gear... but despite this his lore accuracy is a great part of his design, and should be a key point to try and preserve.
2) Perk/Build synergy with Power/Add Ons
One of Myers other great strengths is, although his power is simple, it has exceptionally good synergy with various perks.
Creating builds for Myers is a very rewarding and rich experience, as you can go with several ideas to have fun with his power e.g : -
-Coup de Grace stacks on his lunges and instadown.
-Fire Up/Bamboozle/Superior Anatomy for vault speed.
-Monitor & Abuse with Rabbit add-on to have a 6m TR in EW2 and a massive 50m TR in EW3.
-NOED with the Mirrors add-ons.
-Spirit Fury with Enduring while in EW3.
-PWYF and the Iri add-ons.
His power and add-ons offers a lot of varieties of play, and makes Myers a lot of fun to use and experiment with.
Change Reasoning in Detail
Stalk Pool Replinishment:
Myers is the only character whose power can end, each survivor has 2 tiers worth of stalk (5 stalk for a level, 10.1 per survivor). While it is rare to burn up all 40 stalk points, what isn't so rare is to encounter survivors that are completely tapped, and especially vs. Rat Survivors, this can be a problem.
By having a replenishment, this makes it so Myers is never truly tapped, and at 1 stalk per minute, 5 minutes is all it takes to get a full EW level back off a survivor.
Stationary Stalk Bonus:
Stalk at 100% has a rate of 0.8333 stalk per second (S/s) at 2.5m, and 10% or 0.08333 S/s at 39.85m, translating to 6s and 60s respectively. This linearly scales.
A 10% bonus (additively) brings this to 5.45s at 2.5m and 30s at 39.85m.
Myers in the films remains still whenever he stares at his victims. Currently in game he moves very slowly, but he still moves, and it is required for him to wiggle at close range to maintain sight, as breaking line of sight is of the counter to Myers. However for those scenarios where Myers manages to get LoS on a survivor without them noticing, even at long range, he should be rewarded, and this flat bonus has much greater impacts at long range compared to short range.
This change, whole also being lore accurate, is part of the effort to reduce how difficult it is to get going if Myers positions himself well for LoS bonuses.
For JMT this helps build up faster if he can position well, and suits lore Myers much better.
Movement Speed while at distance bonus:
This is the big change. Myers start up is made awful not just because of his lack of power when he gets going, but the absolutely sorry movement he starts with that makes stalking at EW1 a real chore.
This change serves 2 lore accurate purposes:
1) It helps him to make his way near survivors quickly, and if he's stationary stalking from range (see stationary Stalk bonus) he can disappear from view/reposition quickly.
2) It gives him a psuedo Whispers allowing him to sense nearby survivors, similar to how Myers seems to always instinctly know where his victims are.
Generally useful buff regardless of build.
Faster Pallet Break bonus:
Quite simply this is a bonus similar to his vault and lunge increases. Myers is supposed to feel unstoppable and relentless, and in DBD this kind of strength is represented by Pallet breaks.
This translates to less distance for survivors from W-ing between pallets, which is 1 of the strongest, and dumbest strategies against Myers right now.
Adding this small buff gives Myers potency in EW3, which he definitely needs, and further pushes his potential for better perk synergies with the likes of Brutal Strength, or even just Enduring.
Tombstone Piece:
Always the problematic addon, the goal here is give an alternative means of using the Judith Myers Tombstone add-on, and allowing other add-on usage.
By allowing a faster general stalk and recovery Myers can keep a high level of potency getting to his EW3 if he properly holds still.
Fits his lore better and makes gives him a boost he needs to get back the loss of movement.
Conclusion
My main goal is to ensure Myers doesn't lose what he has... because poweful or no, he is one of the most fun characters to play in DBD. A rework could kill that, but this little set of changes hopefully smooths out some of his issues, while keeping the parts of him we love!
Do hope it's not too long! I'd be very keen to discuss any of the above points! Hopefully I gave enough to chew on, and split it up enough to be easy(ier) to digest.
Let me know what you think, and I do solemnly swear, this will be the last Myers balance thread I make... cause they pop up all the time xD
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@Smoe said:
The rule of thumb is never trust random steam invites or anything they say or send to you.
This rule of thumb applies to everything. If someone contacts you with a link or phone number, or claims to be a company and asks you to confirm any details whatsoever without you having contacted them first, refuse everything.
When talking to any company, search through google, and go through their official channels such as webpages or direct contact information. Never trust anything where anyone contacts you first... especially if anything say urgent, limited time, or anything that says you have to act fast.
I've actually told off quite a few legit companies for contacting me via methods that can easily be mimicked by scammers 😅
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@crogers271 nailed it.
However the simplest argument is, by hard tunneling a player out, you basically gave that player almost no chance to win, and you shut that player out from playing the game.
It's not a skill issue, cause Killers are supposed to have an advantage over individual survivors, so the tunneled survivor has a huge dusadvantage, and it is certainly not a fair fight. Even if they do manage to loop you for all 5 gens over their 3 lives, they still are very likely to lose, and the only solace the tunneled player can hope for is they survived long enough for everyone else to get out.
That's what makes it so hated.
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@nimalar said:
I had the same problem with Hex: Plaything today. No aura anywhere, then I randomly found and cleansed a hex totem and it turned out to be my Plaything.
Confirmed this issue on PS5, I caught this today. Hex: Plaything aura is not revealed.
- Totem is right in front of behind the rock, but no aura is visible.
- Oblivious on the right. Hex: Plaything active.
- Hex cleansed, oblivious is gone, and Hex: Plaything is disabled.
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I thought I was going crazy! However finally confirmed it was real! I can stop throwing games trying to find out xD
- You can see no aura behind the rock.
- I break the hex.
- Oblivious is gone!
No reason to post this here, other than vindicate myself and share the info!
Making a bug report now!
Does anyone know if Open Handed affect Hex:Plaything BTW? I think it does but can't confirm it right now 😅
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605288#Comment_3605288
honestly i didn't think about numbers at all, but let's say you get 3 crows and killer instinct after 5 minutes of uselessness. cleansing dulls don't regress it at all, doing a gen/healing regresses it 3 or 5 times faster than it fills, and getting an unhook takes away 1/3 or even half of total progress since you need to be extra careful and sneaky for that. getting chased completely resets it.
the last paragraph is tough. pig trap stops it completely. pre running shouldn't fill it. idk about hovering for a save, hovering for 5 minutes straight should already tell you to stop and go do a gen instead i suppose lol or you can also get in a chase in the meantime so it gets reset. if a myers is trying to get stalk on you he already knows where you are, and you most likely aren't doing that peakaboo game for 5 mins straight.
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3605332#Comment_3605332
Being chased would reset it completely, on all survivors. That is important, of course. This solution does not aim to give the killer any kind of competitive advantage. It's just an idea to get around the crows' limitations in a manner that would actually help this whole situation. Thank you for notifying me on that potential issue.
Being in the killer's TR, would slow it down but not pause it. Imagine if you had a TR build on Wesker and this would not work because you are on a small map. I don't think that would be good.
Survivors would be notified, that the killer is about to see their location and they would also be warned to make some progress. However, progressing the game would not reset it immediately to prevent people from tapping gens and going back into hiding. Instead it would pause while survivors do any kind of action and it would reset, once that survivor has progressed enough. How much progression needs to be done is something that needs a lot fine tuning, so I'd leave that up to BHVR to test it out on a PTB. I personally think 30 seconds should be fine as it's very easy to accomplish (even in 3 gens) and would take a lot of time to activate.
Is good stuff folks, very good answers I feel. 😁
Sorry to test you, but it's all these subtle interactions that are gonna need thinking about. My goal is pointing out all those odd little scenarios that I'm concerned this wave of Stealth backlash doesn't account for...
I'm all for targetting ratting, but I have growing concerns a lot of the discussions around stealth right now need to ensure these kinda points are factored in, and pushed to the front of the priorities list. 😁
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@Xernoton said:
There is something that can be done. If a survivor doesn't make X amount of progress in different actions in 3 minutes, they are revealed to the killer. The survivor would be notified beforehand, that they should progress the game somehow or risk being revealed.
The same could happen when the killer hasn't been able to get into a chase for X amount of time. Make it 3 minutes or even more, so it cannot be used to win the game but it would stop survivors from holding the killer hostage. I have had more than enough people trying to do that, when someone was alredy dead and I am not ok with either side being held hostage.
Both of these solutions are so weak, that they don't give the killer a competitive advantage but they do end hiding for the sake of hiding.
Sounds reasonable, the numbers are important ofc. 3 minutes of progress seems a good way to do it... however I assume being chased or being in the killers TR pauses this?
If a player is getting tunneled and is on death hook hasn't had a chance to get any progress and now needs to be super careful not to get caught, this is where the idea starts to have issues.
Would the progress slow in this scenario?
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@NerfDHalready said:
they can improve afk crows. something like an invisible bar that fills as you stay useless and survs can recede it by doing gens healing (others) getting chased and unhooking. numbers should be rather extreme so actual valid stealth gameplay (especially in 3v1 or 2v1s) isn't punished.
This would be my route, however the problem is very difficult to manage, it would need extremely careful thought to ensure it built up fast enough to matter, and decay slow enough that you can't tap a gen or a totem periodically to avoid the build up but be long enough to not catch legit play.
This is why I say you have to be very careful about nerfing stealth, because it's quite easy to be too weak to make a difference, or catch legit play in the crossfire. How long should it be before it goes off? 2 minutes? 3 minutes? 5 minutes?
What constitutes being useful? Conspicuous actions for a time might be a good for the 2vs1.. but how long? And how long does someone need to do an action for it to be considered no longer hiding to prevent tapping?? 5s? 10s? 20s?
Does being in chase stop it? What about pre-running? What if I'm going for flashlight/pallet saves? Does being in the killer TR disable it? What about if I'm being head trap stealth stalked by a Pig? Or breaking LoS on Myers?
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@[Deleted User] said:
It’s anti-facecamp, not anti-camp. Proxy camping works if the killer is not too close to the hook but still allows survivors to attempt a save against most of the Killer roster.
The feature was never intended to deter camping altogether, just the most obnoxious aspects of it. Seems to be a general misunderstanding.
I am starting to think someone creating a macro to automatically answer & explain this point will make a killing.
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P.S: Would there be anyone on PlayStation willing to add me to their friends list and test it?
Need 2 people ideally so, feel free to PM me if interested.
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I love the Pig for the fact her chase is 100% mind games. She can't brute force a down like a lot of killers can, and her RBTs are the best slowdown in the game, there to buy her the time to actually win those exchanges, giving her a unique and interesting identity.
Making builds for her is fun, cause you have to think around your weak chase, find a way to make yourself more potent, and there are a lot of way to do it, which makes Pig a lot of fun to build around.
That said... this design does lead itself to a first chase problem... where basically your whole game it quite dependant on the success/failure of your first chase, and ofc the better survivors are, the harder it is to make every chase count.
This makes her very potent at low levels, but struggle heavily at high levels.
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@Nazzzak said:
I've never used OoO, does this mean when the Obsession changes (with FttE) you and the killer stop seeing each other every 30s? Is the perk still useful at that point or only if the killer has other aura perks?
Correct, if you get switched off the obsession you no longer get the 30s reveal, but ofc that can be exactly what you want, because then you just get to see the Killer's aura any time you are revealed.
What has surprised me about running it is the 30s is not really a problem most of the time, because the killers FOV is a lot smaller than yours, so alot of the time you see them, but they don't see you unless they are looking your direction. The simple fact you know when your aura is being read, can really help prevent make mistakes wondering if the killer has seen you or not.
Also you are the one that can see when OoO will proc, so you can also locker hop at the right time to prevent your aura being read if you need to (I like Q&Q for this). OTR prevents you being read as well off hook, which is really when you don't want it to happen.
It's actually a much nicer perk than I thought. 🤘😁🤘
EDIT: Rancor though is terrifying 😱😱😱
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/399731/has-anyone-tried-ooo-against-ftte
I think the problem is, distortion just does it better.
I keep getting this issue with Distortion, there are times when I actually need to take Killer aggro... and I actually struggle to get his attention... because I'm usually the juiced, not the juicer, I can't go too close cause 10 seconds of attention isn't worth anything, but to bait a sufficiently tempting carrot is tricky...
With OoO I find I can pre-run a lot earlier (as I say, I'm bad), but it still get the killers attention for my team. I actually also run OTR as well to prevent the tunnel... it works quite nicely 😁
I'm mostly chuffed about it, cause as a lowbie scrub I was always afraid of this perk... when I did Laurie's adept I got a Artist who gave up after being juiced hard by 1 of my teammates and I've never ran it since... but especially vs. Chucky... it's quite nice, and a better perk than I thought...
Though Wraith might be able to talk me out of it xD 😅
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Definitely a survivor sided map... but while Haemophobia is a thing, I feel really bad asking for it to be rebalanced 🫨
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Feels like a good easter egg opportunity.
P-5000 loader license, Rolled up Magazinez etc, etc
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3604395#Comment_3604395
The correct way to 99 a gate is to stay within a close proximity to it as much as possible, so that you can open it when you hear the TR or see all the other survivors. People 99 the gate then just run away to do whatever, which is what leads to those moments where it costs a hook/death. If going for the 2 man strat to guarantee the unhook, the person who takes the injury should run to the exit gate to be the designated opener (they're already wounded, so no bodyblocking.)
As for the timer, it can make a difference regarding hook trading. It might not take you the full 2/4 minutes to save someone, but someone else could get in trouble during that time, and the team will have even less time to save them.
I get why a lot of people open the gate instead of leaving it 99ed, but you can have your cake and eat it, too.
Correct for a SWF... for SoloQ... that's a LOT of faith :P
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As others have said, I'd died far more from people 99ing gates and having to path to do the last tick of the gate after a save, than I have from the EGC timer being started.
You have 2 minutes, 4 if someone is down/hooked. If you can't get them out in 4 minutes, you ain't getting them out.
The only reason to 99 a gate is if the killer is about to hook a player to ensure you don't proc blood warden. At all other times I open the gate to ensure that the fast getaway, is actually a fast getaway.
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Playing Devil's Advocate here, but I have a feeling the stealthier playstyle is getting popularity as a result of tunneling becoming quite prevelant tbh. We all know its effective, going for an unhooked player is 1 less health state you have to chew through, and creates a lot of pressure,and more importantly is someone you already know you can catch... so that's just logical.
Thing is, no one wants to be tunneled out of the game, so by cause and effect, no one wants to be found... OTR is OK against it, Dead Hard is OK/meh, DS is kinda poo, and basically any other options are meh to bad.
I know I myself start off with the intent of playing normally... but eventually I'll hit a spate of being tunneled, and I'll start looking at stealth perks and anti-tunnel perks, and hide a lot to prevent it.
The truth is stealth has to stay a part of the game, cause if you get put on Death Hook early... you must remain hidden basically from that point on... because otherwise the Killer will kill you on sight. Being alive and not doing much is better than bring dead and doing literally nothing...
I'm not condemning Killers really... but it's super unfun for the survivor being tunneled... so is it a wonder a lot of Survivor's don't want to risk engaging with the killer?
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They already won?
NOED and No Way Out/Blood Warden would disagree.
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@Disco said:
Make a button that killers can press when the gates are open that is like a forfeit and makes all remaining survivors escape the trial so everyone can move onto the next game instead of forcing people to wait 2 minutes.
@Disco said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603305#Comment_3603305
No i'll still complain thanks. It's a ######### thing to do to wait at gates tea bagging to gloat
No thanks. I'm happy with my slapping teabaggers in the face forfeit button.
In seriousness, dismissive responses to valid points doesn't help anything. People are toxic in all games, best advice anyone can give you is develop thicker skin.
There is an idea when it comes to bullying and toxicity that you should never let them see you sweat. Ensuring you slap them on the way out to end their BS is how you show them you aren't bothered by it. If they ain't getting a rise out of you, they looked like the jackass, and they don't get what they want out of doing it.
Forfeiting however does the opposite, it shows them they bothered you, and encourages them to keep doing it.
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My guess based on the usual frustration/talking points around Huntress would be to have a look at some of the more egregious cases of her scoring hits vs. hitboxes...
That's the only thing I could imagine would be a legitimate complaint worth looking at... though a lot of that isn't really Huntress' fault... so I'm really not sure wgat BHVR intend to target. 🤔
Maybe something to do with her iri add-on?
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Yikes, I hadn't thought of that...
Jeez, I sure don't want to miss out on that Chucky banner.... better pull out my wallet and fork out £10 for it.
It's not like I can possibly wait for more banners to be released for free, or actually assess whether or not I think £10 is worth it for a banner...
This is totally BHVR exploiting my poor magpie brain, that can't possibly resist a new shiny thing... couldn't possibly be them offering me a nice little bonus for funding their game by making a conscious decision to buy their new content.... no... I'm clearly not capable of assessing the value of that content on my own.
Shame on them.
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@Skillfulstone said:
I'll just leave this here...
https://youtu.be/vOliDIQxQlE?si=CwdpCXEEAoCL2MNA
I honestly believe Skull Merchant to still be an issue simply because she still has no meaningful counterplay to her (especially for SoloQ), the guy in the video goes into it in a rather detailed breakdown.
She's less obnoxious than before (although the bar was set incredibly low) but her rework shifted the issue rather than fixing it completely.
There is good argumentation in this video. Indeed the huge swing of 13% Hindered + Haste sticks out as the most unfair part.
I've held the opinion that Skull Merchant is improved, @PixelBush said in one of his previous videos that 'her power is now more importantly buffable', which is a statement I agree with, and also means it is also 'nerfable'. I know you're against nerfing her, and there is counterplay walking under drones, but the precision required by survivor is so much more than SM, it does seem a little unfair for anything outside the very best players, and I think that's where the data points most.
Unfortunately it is hard to know how much of the stats are players giving up and not playing, vs. How much is actually genuine gameplay. Assuming it is accurate to actually pkaying though... The scanning part of her drones is the direction I wanted her to go instead of the auto detect AoE she had before. I actually have fun sneaking past drones and disabling them... so this is the change that tells me we have potential here...
However I've always said her kit is really busy, with a lot going on, and this video summed up those points very well. I think the Deep wound is fine, especially as this can is countered by Made For This. Broken is probably fine to have a haphazardly scanned afar effect... realistically any player paying attention while not pressured shouldn't get scanned and can disable drones. The recall though is a little nutty, it feels like disabling a drone shouldn't permit SM to immediately just take it back, especially as the fact it is disabled is information to her as well. Something could be looked at here as well.
All of this means, I support Pixel's changes above, the nueroshock is a much nicer route in conjunction with her other changes, however I would definitely want the Hindered gone. The haste I would like normalised to only be active when scanned/trapped survivors are in her TR, and to simplify it so that its 3% for a scanned survivor, 5% for a claw trap. Throwing up a new drone to enter undetectable loses the haste, so there is an associated "set up" cost.
All of this makes it so the survivor has a clearer understanding of the 1vs1, and doesn't make looping SM an automatic death sentence.
I'm not smart enough to know if this would work, but it seems healthier to me... and I'm determined to keep pushing actual discussion around Skull Merchant, instead of just "Delete her".
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@Hunkulese said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3603454#Comment_3603454
They just said it was oddly specific. It is oddly specific, especially since you keep saying you don't necessarily want a Black cop and the Saw DLC was years ago. Why not bring up Quentin? He has to be the most nothing survivor in the game. Or any of the other licenced survivors?
There are lots of original survivors, and there will be many more. What's wrong with Tapp?
If you don't specifically want a Black cop, what difference does it make that Tapp is in the game? With how they've been rolling out survivors, I'm sure we'll get another Black survivor soon if that's what you're looking for.
Out of curiosity, do Gabriel or Renato not count?
I'm genuinely asking btw, not making a snarky comment. 😁
I understand that Renato is Brazilian, but Gabriel is surely black? As is Èlodie and ofc we have Claudette.
We have quite a mix of skin colours and nationalities... The cast seems pretty diverse to me?