UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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In the low tiers, Skull Merchant's I've faced are actually pretty cool and fun to engage with. Before my surgery, new Slull Merchant felt nice to use, and fun to play.
Being that I'm stuck playing as a survivor with my hand in a cast, I still manage to loop Slull Merchant about as well as I do anybody else, buying maybe 50-60s on average when I have all resourced available before I go down (unless I putz it, and go down in 10) xD
I believe people when they say SMs all use the same toxic gameplay... but I just don't see it at my level... I do sometimes wonder if the reason for all the toxic mid to high level Skull Merchants is the result of a self fulfilling prophecy, where because survivors keep pitching a fit and quitting, the character naturally attracts the people who want to mess with and upset survivors.
Maybe survivors constantly insta-giving up, and refusing to remove their SM bias is part of the problem....
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Seems like a good contender for a global Hex IMO.
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- Clown
- Doctor
- Bubba
None of them are overpowered or anything... they just make me feel like an idiot who can't seem to stop making constant mistakes against them xD
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I have to concur with Radiant, the issue really is your team screwing you over more than the Pig herself. Once you timer is on, your team should be leaving you on hook or downed for as long as possible until they are sure she is committing elsewhere.
If a Pig is tunnelling you once you are hatted and unhooked, especially crouch tunneling, she is wasting a lot of time that your teammates should be capitalising on. Run to the furthest box you can.
If she is hard committing to keep you off of boxes, there is an argument for just letting her tunnel you and forcing her to down/hook you at boxes. By doing so she disables your timer, and smart teammates should know to crank gens and unhook you as late as they possibly can. By doing this you are wasting huge swathes of time that the team should be capitalising on.
Of it is causing you a lot of grief, consider taking plot twist, and disabling your bear trap yourself.
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@PixelBush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601795#Comment_3601795
I thought someone would ask about this: the 5% Hinder for 2.5s is basically there to mitigate the issue Doctor has with Survivors on high ping. Doctor's power routinely doesn't work against Survivors with high ping because on their screen they've dropped the pallet or vaulted the window before the shock hits them. Maintaining a very small Hinder (half her current Hinder strength for less than half the duration) would give her some agency against Survivors whose net sucks without being overbearing.
Similarly I would not mind Doctor also getting this effect: Doctor's a pretty garbage Killer by all accounts.
Hmmm... fair point, although it was my understanding that Doctor was disproportionately punished by the MFT era. The 3% against him was especially punishing due to the need for him slow down to shock, consistently screwing up his ability to catch up when using his power.
Not that I have data outside of Nightlight.gg to back up that claim of course, there is a mysterious bump for Doctor last month, maybe a correlation with the gen regression meta? However very recently Doctor seems to be on a bigger bump since MFTs nerf.
I did notice the hindered effect was significantly reduced, maybe its fine? However it feels a little band-aidy to me to keep it, and I'd prefer not to balance around "what if you have a bad ping?", as this disproportionately punishes players with good connections.
I do actually like Skull Merchant, and I want her to succeed. The shock seems nice, especially in favour of hindered (I'm also keen to hear other ideas if anyone has any).
However do you have any thoughts on my suggestion for removing her scaling speed, to make it more consistent so survivors aren't having to perform calculations on how many scanned survivors are in effect to understand her speed?
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Chucky has this amazing passive where survivors constantly mind game themselves. xD
Whenever I'm at a loop and need to win a mind game to make next tile, a casual turn around of his red light, and I don't know if he used Hidey-Ho, went left or right, or what the hell he is doing...
The number of times I've mind gamed myself by guessed he is going right with a red light turn, only for him to actually run left instead, or seeing his red light facing one way, and thinking he's gonna double back, only to run right into him a second later...
There isn’t a killer that consistently makes me feel like an idiot more than Chucky xD
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PS5 is nice, and you literally keep all your trophy progress and character unlocks.
Your PS4 games are (almost) all also fully backwards compatible, so that's a nice bonus.
However PC is the true way to play DBD really.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
It's usually down to being bad at looping. If you can't loop well enough then you'll most likely get destroyed in SoloQ. I mostly play SoloQ now and that's what I've noticed. Matches aren't always the best but you live and learn, or in this case you die and you learn. Teammates don't always do gens or come for a unhook or are scared and hiding but they're trying their best. That's all you can honestly ask for. If you take this game serious then you'll always be mad when in soloQ.
@UndeddJester So the exact same thing that happens in every other game?
Exactamundo 🤣
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There are odd occasions where I feel like a PC mouse player can turn around obstacles more than they should. I've seen some absolutely gnarly max range slice n dices ending in 180 spins around terrain that felt a little BS... though it is rare.
However for the most part Chucky is pretty fun to face, pretty strong, while mostly feeling fair. I enjoy trying (and usually failing) to loop him... I feel like throwing a pallet helps me less than just running most of the time 😁
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The only reason I feel voice comms would be a bad idea... is at some point I'll slip and start ranting my ass off at my dumb as bricks teammates, and I'll get reported for toxicity
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@PixelBush said:
Skull Merchant 2.0 received a ton of major changes between her PTB and live release. Despite being a major improvement on her prior iteration, SM could do with some follow up changes to make her windows of counterplay in chase clearer, clean up some messes that adding the drone rotation mechanic have created and make getting claw-trapped more lethal as a chase tool without reducing Survivor agency in the chase.
Almost every Killer match I've played since SM's rework has been SM: I've played a huge amount of her and can appreciate how well her kit works for the most part, but I would like to see some polish given to her. Given that she got two new mechanics between her PTB and live release, it seems fitting to give her that much since those mechanics completely change the way she plays and they weren't given feedback time on the PTB.
The first issue: drone rotation switching is great on paper: it gives the Killer much more agency over their power's utility in chase but the way it's integrated into her kit gives the Survivor very little warning that it's happened and very little counterplay in chase to a drone being rotated back and forth over them. To that end, I would polish up the rotation system to give it a bit more clarity as to when it's being used and give the Skull Merchant a meaningful cost to using it to reward proper timing.
Recommendation:
- A sound cue plays when a drone is rotated by the Killer (like an electronic beep from the drone) to let the Survivor know it's happened. This would also help the Killer as it will provide audio confirmation that the rotation has happened.
- Rotating a drone disable its beams for 1.5s, to give the Survivor room to play around a freshly rotated drone.
The second issue: clawtraps on injured Survivors. Skull Merchant needs to have SOME lethality when a Survivor is clawtrapped: if she has nothing at all she's just a worse Legion, but the 10% Hindered debuff translates to instant death at short tiles and does very little other than potentially force a predrop at long ones: it doesn't give her the lethality she needs at the tiles where she needs it and isn't interesting to play with or against. To that end I suggest an alternative effect, one which requires more direct input from the Skull Merchant but can translate to higher lethality at tiles that she could otherwise have not gotten a hit at.
Recommendations:
- Clawtrapped Survivors are no longer automatically Hindered when scanned by a drone.
- Killer Instinct duration increased from 3s to 6s, and the Killer Instinct now triggers 1s after a Survivor becomes Clawtrapped as well as whenever a Clawtrapped Survivor becomes scanned.
- While a Survivor is spotted on Killer Instinct, the Radar gains a new function, Neuroshock.
- When Neuroshock is used, every Survivor currently Clawtrapped on the map is instantly shocked (in the vein of Doctor's shock) for 2.5s and receives a 5% Hindered effect for the same duration. Shocked Survivors cannot interact with objects for the duration of the shock and scream, interrupting any actions they were doing.
The third issue: drone evasion in chase. Evading a drone in chase by crouching or standing still at key moments is very much possible (despite what some folks would have you believe) and this counterplay should be the key to Skull Merchant's chase interactions, but after the massive scanline speed buff from PTB this has become increasingly impractical: it can still be done, but not even slightly consistently if the drone is in Scouting Mode. Evading a drone in chase should be more feasible, but a consequence of this should be higher lethality if you're NOT actively trying to evade the drone. If you're just taking stacks thoughtlessly, you should take them faster.
Recommendations:
- Scouting Mode drone rotation speed reduced from 85 degrees/sec to 80 degrees/sec. This is a middle ground between her PTB and live speed.
- Scan line immunity window reduced from 3s to 2.5s (in effect, making the Ultrasonic Speaker addon basekit. This would require a change to Ultrasonic Speaker)
The fourth issue: addons. Skull Merchant's addons are very
hitand miss, with some being exceptional and others being more suited to old SM than her new iteration or just being flat out awful.Recommendations:
Without any of the above changes implemented, the following addons would still need to be given new effects:
- Shotgun Speakers, Adi Valente Issue 1, Advanced Movement Prediction, Expired Batteries
All of these addons provide effects that you would never ever want: seeing the auras of Survivors you can already see with AMP, Expired Batteries giving you a miniscule Haste boost for an ultra rare addon slot, and the skillcheck addons that are more relics of her old kit that don't fit on her new design.
With my suggested kit changes, the following addons would also need to be changed:
- Vital Targeting Processor, Randomised Strobes, Ultrasonic Speaker
- Prototype Rotor could also be buffed since the rotation speed changes would be an indirect nerf to an addon that didn't need it
I don't want this list of proposed changes to seem like I hate new SM: on the contrary, I know this Killer at her core could be a fantastic inclusion to the roster. The kit, at its core, works, it's way healthier than her old version and is a unique take on the trap Killer formula mixed with a midrange zoner. She's kind of got everything, but a Killer with such a vast amount of moving parts definitely needs some further tuning. The dialogue surrounding her since... well, forever has been absolutely seeping with toxicity and vitriol and that has thoroughly polluted the feedback to this rework. I intend to cut through the noise: people will always whine, but I hope what I've made here is constructive and useful in making Skull Merchant the healthiest she can be.
While I might be doing a minor Necro here, I believe the suggestions here are very healthy and would improve the counterplay vs. Skull Merchant considerably. Generally I believe all of this is a very good take.
The only thing I don't understand is this:
When Neuroshock is used, every Survivor currently Clawtrapped on the map is instantly shocked (in the vein of Doctor's shock) for 2.5s and receives a 5% Hindered effect for the same duration. Shocked Survivors cannot interact with objects for the duration of the shock and scream, interrupting any actions they were doing.
I thought the whole point of giving her the neuroshock was to remove the breaking the survivors ankles hinder effect that makes her feel so cheap to go against? Considering a single scanned survivor already grants 3% haste to SM, this gives her an 8% movement speed swing vs. the pursued survivor.
The biggest consistent complaint vs. Skull Merchant is the fact her power forces you to leave loops. I don't think this necessarily a problem perce' as this is not new... its something that can already be done by Hag, Trapper, Nurse, Clown, etc. Between the fact she has a speed boost (that is hard to track/get a feel for how fast she's actually going), can hide her red light using her drone (without really losing any speed), see you on her radar once you're tagged AND have Killer instinct (making mind games almost impossible), and with the ability to force you into a neuroshock and prevent use of windows/pallets, this seems like plenty of strength without the hinder effect as well to me.... and given the shock from Doctor doesn't have the slow down, it seems curious SM would get one in conjunction with all the other things in her kit.
So to try and resolve the above frustrations and give some compensation for the complete loss of hindered, I would consider ditching the scaling speed boost based on the number of scanned survivors, as this will rarely be above 2 anyway (but still makes her speed inconsistent and hard to track at loops). I'd suggest making her movement speed a consistent 3% whenever a scanned survivor is within her TR, regardless of how many survivors are scanned, and 5% (or 6%) whenever a claw-trapped survivor is within her TR, again regardless of how many survivors are claw-trapped.
This makes her a more potent when she commits to a survivor, and gives a natural chase incentive. Getting caught by a claw trap means you now have a faster Skull Merchant coming for you, who can see you via the radar, and if you get hit by another scan, she will get killer instinct and easily catch you at windows and pallets. It also means there is a trade off for her while planting drones to become undetectable, so successfully dipping and getting to another loop means you can buy yourself a reprieve from her speed while she sets up a new drone.
This also means that it is the chased survivor that is at fault if they are getting pursued by the Skull Merchant, rather that someone else being the cause of the speed boost going against them, so rewards a more skillful survivor who is better at avoiding getting tagged, rahter than them being punished for a teammates mistake.
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@adaw0ng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601692#Comment_3601692
He still can 2 tap through endurance instantly and he was not supposed to be able to do that after the mechanic was implemented. He 2 taps through endurance even if hasted.
Not experienced that myself, I've yet to be caught by a double tap since otvwas fixed, but sounds like a bug to me. You should report it.
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I actually had a camping Bubba get caught out by the AFC in my game the other day. He stuck too close to me and gave me the unhook, and the extra 5 seconds of BT meant I was easily able to get to a pallet and force him to m1 me or let me throw it, in the end his camping really hurt his ability to win the game.
Outside of this, the clearance the AFC provides really makes applying Kinship and Reassurance much easier, and you can really punish a hard camping Bubba, and any of the fast/mobile killers who run away and sprint back to interrupt the unhook.
OFC end game Bubba is still Bubba, but tbh I think the AFC has been a great success, it does exactly what it is meant to, which is stop people face camping. Just the fact there is a small buffer where the killer isn't sat right under hook to give opportunities to counter play, without being abusable by survivors, is a great triumph to my mind.
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Tools of Torment - 4/10. The concept of a tech/hunter killer with a power I have to Metal Gear Solid past is one I really like. Skull Merchant herself, while not so strong on lore, looks pretty cool, her cosmetics are some of the best in the game. The rework I believe has been a considerable improvement, and I maintain she isn't as bad in every single facet as the hive mind tends to insist. That said there is are undeniable problems that created the discourse in the first place, and I still don't think she is quite there. Her power already forces you from loops, I'm not sure she needs haste as well. Survivors are cool, I like Thalita and Renato. Perks are a little on the odd/weaker side, but offer some interesting options and we're bold attempts to add something new.
End Transmission - 8/10. Hux and Gabriel are both excellent characters with outstanding lore. The design and presentation of the characters was very good. The power of Hux though doesn't quite hit as cool as it could, I'd like the machine infection to look a little more nasty and surreal. Gameplay-wise his power is complex and convoluted, and results in a Killer that is very map reliant, and is especially punishing to pick up on console. His slew of buffs are a result of those map related issues and complexity, which bring it down. Killer got some interesting but ultinately not that fascinating perks. For survivor we got 2 great perks... and MFT... which horrifically drags the chapter down. The new MFT though bumps it back up from 7 to 8, the perk is healthy and fun to use now, with interesting build synergies.
Nicholas Cage - 10/10. Straight up hilarious, with the weirdest perks to date, that despite being bat guano crazy, are actually decent, with some very interesting synergies. Very cool chapter... that I don't think could have been better.
Alien - 8/10. Major hype for this license, and the killer has delivered well. Fun to play around if you use all the tools at your disposal, with both strategic placement of turrets, and baits of the tail making this killer very fun to face. To use there is some dodgy walls every now and again, but it has a rewarding skill ceiling and satisfying when you pull off a solid flick. Only downsides are the broken state Xeno was released in that made them very unfair, the controversy over Ultimate Weapon that widens the Killer Roster gap wider.
Child's Play - 9/10. Very well done killer, strong without being ludicrously oppressive, good skill ceiling, while being relatively easy to pick up, amd offering a unique experience. He is mostly fun to play against, though mistakes against him are very easy to make. Perks are interesting, though on the slightly weaker side, with exception of Friend's to the End. Good to see obsession perks still getting some thought behind them.
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@FFirebrandd said:
I personally would want Chocolate #1. From reading the description,that's what I thought it did and thought it would be decent. It's still a little crazy to me that it's 4 times stronger than I thought.
This is also a nice change, and actually rewards Killers who pop it within a group 😁
Edit: Would need ignore hooked survivors in that detection cut off though... maybe downed survivors too.
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3601133#Comment_3601133
I frankly don't understand how making UW last less than 10 seconds will keep the "unga bunga" power out of the high-tier...it literally does exactly that by making the window too short for almost any Killer except the top-tier ones that can move that fast.
I don't want to have to play top-tier Killers and/or play scummy in order to compete outside of low MMR.
I don't want to face the same 5 Killers when in higher MMR. The game would get boring.
Most of the complaints about the perk is about the fact it's almost constantly in effect due to the relatively short cooldown. Make the cooldown bigger and most of the complaints go away.
Well I'm not convinced you've done the maths, but I'll come back to that. Let's address your cooldown increase first.
Yes... the complaints go away, by virtue of the fact the perk is literally useless to all characters except the top tiers, and even then its questionable. A coordinated team can crank out gens inside 4 to 5 minutes. Let's assume you buy about 3 minutes of slowdown. With a 90-120s CD you're getting between 5-4 uses throughout the entire game... to say this a scream and a blind, not exactly massively huge value for any Killers that can't close down that scream rapidly, and even for those that can, they'd probably be better with NTH or BBQ and Chilli.
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So your complaint against a shorter up time is that this up time only works for high tier Killers who still get full value out of it.
I suggested 6s, so taking Blight who has the best map traversal in the game at 9.2m/s and a 32m TR, he can cover an area of 6,749.79 m² within 6s at absolute best. Your average map is about 10'000m². This seems pretty busted right? 66% of the map?
However, it is of course assuming he can run right through without obstacles and withour stopping, most smaller maps have a large building in the middle that has no straight path through. At best, I'd guess Blight can only realistically cover about 55% of the map; on average I would guess maybe 40%-50% or so. This means it's entirely plausible he gets nothing from it if he just uses it straight off each hook. It's entirely possible for him to completely miss the last survivor for hatch. This is also assuming that survivors don't hide in lockers... and only having to wait 6s is far more achievable than having to hide for 30 seconds.
So what about your average killer? Your average 32m TR 4.6m/s killer gets an area coverage of 4,983.39m² at best... this isn't that much less that Blight really, and still 50% of the map, maybe 45% given map layouts. On average I'd expect about 25%-35%. So as long as you don't Unga Bunga it off hook at use it when you're getting near to where you think survivors are, you can absolutely use it to a similar degree as Blight and Nurse with this change.
As I said, my goal is to make UW a search assistance perk, one that builds on top of the killers natural game sense, you use it when you think a survivor is nearby, but not sure where. You can also use it strategically when you predict survivors will make a move to unhook, or to try and break your 3-gen, or just to spread blind. This all makes the perk far more interactive instead of just through it up any time it is available.
This will probably be a little undertuned is the concern, but it'll still find use in a competant players hands, and for specific niche scenarios.
I'm not saying my solution is better BTW. I actually have a concern this uptime is too punishing and might kill the perk. I'm just saying that increasing the cooldown doesn't achieve what you want either, and of the 2, I think the shorter uptime is the one that bridges the gap between upper and lower tiers the most.
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Love Tapp!
Tenacity is one of my favourite perks. Great with Plot Twost to heal while heading for an objective Solid Snake style xD
Stake Out is great with Fast Track, especially on console where 60 fps makes landing greats consistently tricky. Also fun to run Fogwise too.
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Unfortunately the reality is DBD community doesn't responds to carrots too well... it always inevitably cones down to the stick in the end 😁
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@Skillfulstone said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600983#Comment_3600983
Info perks will always be better on mobile Killers due to their ability to capitalize on that info. BBQ and Darkness Revealed have the same "weakness" as only fast/teleporting or ranged Killers can get full value most of the time.
However killing the sheer active window won't change much for the powerhouses since they can traverse most maps (and almost guarantee at least 2 procs) in those 10 seconds while slower Killers can hardly make the distance, for them they would only get value if a Survivor was already in the radius and it immediately started a chase.
Low-tier Killers need good perks to help them without the top-tier making them overkill. Nerfing the perk like that would only do the opposite of what the goal is: have a good perk that all/most Killers can use regardless of strength.
I don't disagree, but it seems you've hit the nail on the head. If we have a strong info perk, we're damned regardless. Both sets of changes we've put forward hit the same issue, it's better for top tier killers, worse for lower tier killers.
The problem with extending the cooldown is you basically make it a perk that you have to captialise on for the short time you have it available. Low tier killers will struggle to get that value, so it's pointless to run it, they'll benefit more from a more consistent perk rather than a risky perk. High tier killers can capitalise on that window, so they can afford to take the risk for the reward, so they're the ones who will run it.
Removing the blindness is probably the suggestion that makes the perk the most consistently useful across the board. The only thing the perk gives with this change is a scream notification for anyone in range, and nothing more. It's one use would be for making it easier to tunnel a player out of the game if you lose sight of them off hook while doing other things, which is something high mobility killers do more effectively already cause they can get back to hook fast off of applying pressure elsewhere.
Ofc the elephant in the room is by doing this, your slow killers will cause nearer survivors to scream, so the target they are after has a warning UW is up, and so can jump into a locker and hide, whereas your mobile killers will be too fast for them to have a reasonable reaction time... so you still get a divide, and ofc UW has questionable value without the blind as well, making it a big question again whether it is worth running it on low tier killers (probably not).
This is why I lean the uptime nerf route (though personally I'd be aiming for 6-8 seconds). To my mind, UW should be a supporting search tool that doesn't replace your game sense, but allows you to search a locker if you suspect someone is hiding nearby without incurring a heavy search time penalty for doing so.
The blindness is something that benefits intercepting players coming for saves off hooks if you time it smart, however with it being short it's similar value for all killers, something you have to predict and guesstimate, rather that just stick up for 30s and remove all htought of your own.
The shorter uptime of ~7secs to my mind allows for skillful use of the perk, while keeping the obnoxious unga bunga power out of exclusively the high tier hands.
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I'd be more in favour of just hiding prestige until end game. I'd also not provide a link to player profiles until end game either.
So many more problems get solved by doing so than it causes. My months playing without seeing prestige showed me you literally lose nothing other than e-peening in lobbies, and you remove queue dodgers and backfill issues.
Absolute win. 10/10. Plz BHVR implement again.
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@Astel said:
Isn't the combination with DH/OTR discussed a lot even before the PTB is out?
I did try that too!
I found that build though kinda had this awkward problem where it baits you. I caught myself hunting for the killer to try to hit OTR so I could get MFT, even when it wasnt really beneficial to do so... It worked, but if the killer isn't tunneling, you're kinda throwing a bit by trying to make them tunnel instead of cranking gens.
DS I found didn't work, as even with OTR, you needed to still get downed within a minute in order to make use of DS.... so your benefits of MFT are kinda wasted by the fact you need to get caught deliberately in time for DS to be any use...
Was fun to try though 😁
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@Skillfulstone said:
Mmm...
"Vanilla" is a frankly bad idea due to how it goes against what we all want: Killer variety and validity even at higher MMR.
Making the perk last only 10 seconds would...you guessed it, make the perk effectively worthless on Killers without insane mobility (So most of the cast except Blight, Spirit and Nurse). New perks (and old perks) need/should to be designed around being useful for the low-tier Killers without making the powerhouses even more powerful. It's part of the reason I'm pissed about them killing STBFL next year: STBFL is one of the handful of perks in the game that is good on most low/mid-tier Killers and effectively useless on Nurse & Blight due to their utter reliance on their M2, killing this perk will greatly reduce Killer variety outside of bottom MMR.
"Chocolate" #1 would make it pretty bad as the location reveal is unreliable even now and Survivors have ample time to move/hide before the Killer shows up, making it affect 1 Survivor only might also promote tunnelling to some extent (you lose sight of a recently unhooked Survivor, open a locker so they scream since they are still close, continue tunnelling).
"Chocolate" #2 literally just turns the perk into a tunnelling perk and no ones wants that, there's a reason Dying Light was radically changed from it's release version.
"Cookies and Cream" (debuff) is straight up worthless as Blindness (arguably the least useful status effect) without info is effectively useless, the only reason why Third Seal is even remotely useable (and even that's laughable as a Hex) is because it has no duration and forces Survivors to look for the totem if they want to see hooked/downed teammates.
"Cookies and Cream" (info) is actually a decent idea on paper however we all know it wouldn't work half the time just like Ghosty's reveal mechanic (dude's 10 feet away or even mid-chase and sometimes looking at him won't reveal him). The game's detection of "line of sight" is simply not good enough for perks to work on direct sight alone.
In my opinion it should just be changed to address what 90% of complaints are about: it's almost always active. So just make the cooldown much longer (like 80-120 seconds instead of 30) to give more room for Survivors to hide and keep their aura-reading perks. The Blindness effect could honestly go or be reduced honestly, it doesn't do anything against Survivors that have a little experience and one of the goal is to reduce how much of a noob-stomper the perk is without killing it (frankly a small margin).
Problem is, the perk by it's very nature is only gonna be good on strong mobility and snowball killers. Even in it's current form it is only really problematic on killers that have the mobility and the chase power to capitalise quickly on the consistent information it brings. At low tiers this pool of killers increases, but it's still only the killers with good map mobility and/or strong anti loop that really benefit.
Changing it to have a longer cooldown and/or removing the blindness still creates the same issue, with either or both of those things changed, it won't give enough value to worth a damn for anything short of the top tier killers.
If we truly want to make it not a top tier killer perk, the bubble following the killer has to go, as that is the part that gives more value to the mobile killers, however then you have the problem of the perk being kinda trash in general... so short of that, at least hitting the up time means that killers regardless of mobility have to use it when they have a specific area they want to check in mind, rather just throwing it up and sweeping the entire map.
It'll be more valuable on mobile killers sure, but not oppressively so, and will at least still retain it's more niche uses for tactical defence of totems, or cleverly timed defences of 3-gens or unhooks.
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Nothing any Skull Merchant has ever done annoys me as much as my teammates who won't even try and play.
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@Callahan9116 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600331#Comment_3600331
The whole point is to run, and if he catches you your dead. This is a cheap, zero skill exploit.
Hes faster than you, with bloodlust... It's literally the only thing you can do to avoid being killed my guy.
Myers has a lot of issues, but whilstsoever he has this 1 shot kill ability, it is very hard to buff him.
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This is the thing, blindness has always done this, and it's fine because usually blindness isn't easily applied for large amounts of time, but UW gives easy access to it.
I still think people downplay how useful this perk is on the right killer, I recently concluded this perk isn't as overpowered for skilled survivors on anything short of Nurse and Blight, but it decimates low tier players against any killer that has decent snowball power.
My personal vote is Vanilla 1. Have the perk require the Killer to be somewhat thoughtful about when they use it, not just unga bunga throw it up and go, blinding the whole team as they tunnel/camp their target.
Whenever you open a Locker, Ultimate Weapon activates for 10 seconds: Survivors entering your Terror Radius scream and reveal their location to you. Those Survivors suffer from the Blindness Status Effect for 30 seconds. Ultimate Weapon has a cool-down of 60/55/50 seconds.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3600319#Comment_3600319
There is a third reason.
Some people use it to actually learn maps.
Its a minority, but they do exist.
To that i have to say: the tutorial should have a "check out the map"- function where new players can learn map layout and main buildings. This job should not be locked behind a non-base game character / perk.
See personally I don't buy that, cause IMO WoO actively hinders you from learning anything, because there is literally no requirement to remember tiles while the perk is equipped.
It's the SatNav of looping. You never have to learn the route through a tile, because the Yellow path always tells you where to go.
Made my suggestion to give it a 20s cooldown after a vault/throwing a pallet numerous times, not to nerf it, but to make it actually useful for learning map tiles.
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Works great with Quick Gambit 😏😏😏
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@moulesfrites said:
There must be a reason for it?
Because it's got a high return for low effort. Quite simply it drastically reduces your chances of making a bad chase ending mistake, without requiring a lot of effort.
While it is just an info perk, it always ensures players are running to the nearest window or pallet to put between them and the killer, and accommodates a very lazy play style for casual players.
From a high level standpoint, it's not that great beyond knowing what spawns are pallets are still available, but for your average scrub player like myself, it can buy you significantly more time by just unga bungaing to safety.
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I still think having a 20s cooldown on pallet drops/vaults makes the perk better for learning maps, and more fun and engaging to use.
In it's current state it feels like a training wheels perk, that unless you ditch it, you'll never learn to ride a bike.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3598635#Comment_3598635
I agree with everything except of nerving the traps. The scream factor should only go if other skill check perks would interact with her box.
I don‘t think that she would be to good with those changes, but a bit more of a threat.
Aye, I'm a little unsure on that myself, which is why I've never made a thread about it...
Pig is an odd one cause her kill rate is high in low MMR, but really struggles without playing super dirty in high MMR...
With all these buffs she can of course play super dirty still... and also will be even better in low MMR... so it doesn't feel right to ask purely for buffs...
Hopefully better players than me have a good solution, the no kill while interacting with a trap nerf might be good from @radiantHero23... though that last desperate nervous search would be a sad loss...
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@radiantHero23 said:
I WAS SUMMONED! 🐽
Disagree with some of them.
Pig might seem weak in some instances, but with enough experience, the traps become a lethal weapon that destroys survivors.
They should not be buffed in any way. They are the reason for Pig's consistent high kill rate
Now to Amanda herself.
The problem with her stealth is how slow she moves. This combined with huge maps makes stealth very unappealing. Right now the best option is to use the John's medical file because it elevates her to 100%. Making her stealth maybe a bit faster would be good and not problematic in any way in my opinion. It helps with chasing and getting a first hit.
The roar if that's what you mean, is fine in length. It is connected to the charge up of the ambush. A great idea is to put the ambush on the attack itself and not the charge up. This makes survivors a bit more oblivious to when the attack is gonna start and therefore will make them want to leave the loop a little less often.
The ambush should always be connected to being crouched. Everything else would be very inaccurate to her lore and her appearance in the movies. (including Saw x, which I was finally able to see!!!) I do t think she needs more stuff added to her kit, which is already pretty full.
I dont like adding a synergy with perks like huntress lullaby to the jigsaw boxes. Again, the traps are very lethal in the right hands. Making it even harder for beginner players is not the way to go. In addition to that, there are a lot of addons that would destroy survivors for missing one or two skill checks. Not a good idea.
Now to your opinion on the timer. IN NO WAY SHOULD THE TIMER BE INCREASED! This would make her a extremely lethal for all the WRONG reasons. The reverse bear trap is the strongest slowdown in dbd period. Nothing comes close. Understanding box Rng and how to harass survivors effectively makes head pop not as uncommon as you think. With the correct Rng (1-3-4-4) I get a head pop almost every time. The time is already very limited if you have 4 searches. Making it longer would mean almost certain death for the unlucky ones getting these traps. Reverse bear traps should NEVER give you kills for free. They should however enable kills if you as the pig work for it and harass survivors.
I would even recommend a nerf to the reverse bear traps that will make them a lot weaker but in a fair way.
Survivors are no longer able to die while searching a jigsaw box.
This seems small, but would have a huge impact to the kill pressure of the reverse bear trap. There are several addons that make searching a box difficult for people that have problems with skill checks. There are also addons (gears) that make searching a box take a lot longer. With some combinations (double gears) (crate of gears + tempered timer) and a little interruption on a survivor having a 4 - search trap will GUARANTEE that this survivor dies. I'm not joking. I played her enough to know. Making it that a survivor cannot die of they are working on a jigsaw box (timer runs out but you won't die if your working on it) will make this problem less extreme. The survivor should however immediately die if the timer runs out and the search doesn't lead to the trap coming off.
Im neutral to the idea of the ambush being longer the longer you crouch. At most tiles, Amanda goes into her stealth, charges the ambush and attacks. This would mean that there is effectively no longer distance. It is already way better to stealth up to a survivor, uncrouch and hit them with m1 for Stbfl stacks. I don't think this would improve her performance that much, but it would also not make her weaker.
Same with ambush out of a locker. It would never be something you use in a match due to the time lost. Pig already struggles with huge maps. Incentivising her to stay in one spot to surprise a survivor will make her lose a ton of time, making it not worth it at all. Again, it would not nerf her, but it would not really buff her either. Same thing with dredge, who can enter lockers to surprise survivors. Its never useful.
What should she get to make her more effektive?
Faster crouch movement speed base
Faster ambuch charge up base.
Faster ambush dash speed.
Longer ambush dash speed.
(Maybe) the roar on the ambush not the charge up.
That's all. It will improve her chase a lot and not make her too oppressive in regard to her slowdown.
As a fellow (though relatively new) Pig Main, I agree with this assessment whole heartedly.
While learning the Pig as my first character, I watched a sizable number of hours of videos from several different Pig mains, and that, combined with my own play and application of what I've learned sees the exact same thing.
Pig's headtrap lethality is what keeps her numbers up, and its her chase where she is weakest.
My changes would have been: -
- Crouching movement speed +5% (3.60 -> 3.8 m/s)
- Ambush charges +33% faster (0.75 -> 0.5s).
- Ambush scream starts after 70% charge (0.35s).
- Ambush lunge time +20% (2.0 -> 2.5s)
- Progress on Jigsaw boxes is not lost on interruption.
I don't think she needs both ambush move speed and duration, especially if we're charging faster and with less warning. I also would like to keep the ability to mind game with the charge where I can cancel the roar for a bait.
All these chase buffs though must warrant a nerf to her RBTs, as they are the most potent part of her kit, and while it should be a threat, it shouldn't be the main thing making Amanda viable.
Progress not being lost (or at least degrading) is a double edged sword... it drastically reduces the potency of RBTs, as screams, the Deep wound add-ons, etc, etc no longer create problems for survivors. There is an amount of how much of the Pig's uniqueness from RBTs are we willing to lose to improve her chase. Your change is less severe, and I like it, I'm not sure if all the buffs to chase would be balanced out enough by this nerf to make the RBTs fair?
Of course my proposal needs tweaks to John's Medical File and Workshop Grease. I'd be worried about the power of these if these changes were made. A 4.2m/s stealth Pig with 0.25s ambush charge just might he a little much xD
Last Will is probably fine.
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FSR (Fidelity Super Resolution) is a rendering technique that allows the graphics card to render a less detailed image, but make it appear like a more detailed image. This should increase framerate, not lower it.
I haven't had a chance to toy with it yet, and it does depend how BHVR have set up the logic of this option in the menu, but 100% FSR to my mind should mean rendering the lowest detail image possible with the maximum use of fsr, so could possibly make the scene look a little worse (as more of the scene is being approximated), but massively save performance.
On PS5 and Xbox, games are capped to run at specific FPS to comply with TRCs on those platforms (platforms won't usually allow wildly shifting frame rates). So for PS5 and Xbox, I believe DBD is capped at 60 FPS, as it can't consistently hit 120.
As far as I'm aware this hasn't changed, DBD is still 60 FPS, but if it can consistently hit up to 120 FPS on those platforms, that may change, as both support it.
So in conclusion... Xbox and PS5 are pretty smooth already, and don't really experience drops in performance at 60 FPS, so FSR won't really do much... but it may be the stepping stone to 90/120 FPS in future!
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@ratcoffee said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/OB4BWDBXENRW/image-1.png
TY to @C3Tooth for the coms
My god I wish these were available as forum avatars xD
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@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
We asked for more communication and they are doing it lately.
We all hated "soon" word and now they started give us dates for 6 months period changes.
They are making Q&A events and giving us good informations.
But now community is complaining why X changes are not here, why Y did not mentioned.
Seriously? Real?
They can't work on everything at same time. If Myers and Freddy did not mentioned for next 6 months changes, it just means they are not ready. But it does not mean they are forgotten.
As Freddy fan , i am dying to see him be fun and good again but i understood they have limited time for mid-chapters. Because they are also working on 4 new chapters every year.
Especially 2023 , they did amazing job here. They deserves some credit.
I very much agree with this.
I feel like modern gamers are very entitled, like most customers for anything are. They spend their money once, sometimes buying a game on a discount event for £15, and then they suddenly think their opinions are very important and should be listened to, and the developers suddenly owe them something.
I see people constantly complain about content /changes they want not being available/added when they want them, they complain about things being released in a manner they don't like, they complain about not being given information that they have no right to know, and they even complain about free updates and free events not being big enough or good enough.
The reality is, everything we ask for costs money, and none of us are important enough or special enough to be given that out if the kindness of developers hearts. The developers don't owe us anything, and can quite happily pack up shop, shut down the servers tomorrow, take our money and leave. Everything the developer does is to continue to fund their bankroll, their method of doing that just happens to align with us being happy with the game and willing to continue spend our money, and that is as far as the importance of our opinions extend. Ofc the devs are also human, so they also will take pride in people liking their game, but when all is said and done the game being profitable is what is important.
Customers however always think we are right, but the reality is we are often very much not. We are often misinformed, loud, entitled and ignorant idiots who only care about ourselves and what immediately affects us, without a single thought for the grander scale or how it effects others.
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They way you do this is take the power cooldown add-ons and when you have a survivor wounded, charge and fire only 1 crow at them to tag them. This is the hard part, as the survivor can juke if they're paying attention, but a single crow comes back faster than they can repel by a significant margin.
You then scatter your 3 crows after the recharge and basically shotgun the survivor down, quite hard to miss after you've got your first tag.
You've got other methods of doing it like double shooting, and ofc using them to shut down loops, but this is the most consistent and easy way.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595194#Comment_3595194
Sure, but this still has nothing to do with this game? Like sure people should talk to their children about this stuff, but they should not get their underage children this game to begin with, so we cannot really assume those irresponsible parents are gonna care about smoking in that game.
Obviously I know it does not matter for those parents and they still buy it, but the point is we don't solve that issue by making an 18+ game to be not 18+ but to be stricter when it comes to who can get such a game or figure out some other way to prevent children the access to such content.
They shouldn't, but I guarantee people have, and will continue to do so.
My actual point is, this is a horror game, and there isn't really any sensible reason to censor it at all.
I've actually knee jerk responded to this thread, so will admit my post is kinda out of left field... but to make an actual point... even taking this worst case scenario (I.e. children playing this game), I'd still be against any censorship.
I'm against censoring smoking on Tiffany, and I'm against the censoring that has already occurred as mentioned in the OP as well.
I also want Mori's to come up to Singularity and Xeno level as standard.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3595160#Comment_3595160
Context?? This is an 18+ game, there should not be kids in this game and taking care of the if is already problematic, because if they have access to it we have a completely different problem.
It is an 18 rated... but if you think that matters... it doesn't... as stupid as that is. I worked for 5 years selling games at a major retailer to parents. Explained games like Grand Theft Auto 4 every time in detail.... gang related violence, drugs and prostitution, the whole 9 yards.
Guess how many parents didn't buy their kid the game in the entire time I worked there? ... 3.
I wouldn't do it myself, but there are kids at the age of 7 that watch things I didn't see until I was 17. So my point is, even if youre a responsible parent, most arent, and theyre gonna encounter this stuff at some point. So when they ask you about things they've heard about or seen, you don't want to treat them like idiots. Be honest with them.
The relevance to this thread is, Tiffany smoking is not a big deal at all, and definitely shouldn't be censored.
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Kids aren't stupid you know... long as you don't BS them and answer open and honestly about things they aren't a problem. Obviously you have tailor your response to a level they would understand, but being honest about is a respect thing to them that breeds respect from them as well.
I've told my niece and nephews what it is, why people do it. I also say that I personally think starting to smoke is one of the dumbest things you can do, and I tell them why, but everyone has their own reasons for doing it and its their decision. I've also said some of the smartest and coolest people I've ever known also smoke and do all kinds of drugs, so make of that what you will.
I respect them, and they respect me, and let them ask whatever they want.
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Who knows? Maybe the reason for the delay is BHVR actually have some serious clout now to actually barter for the real Freddy.
Not that I aim to start any rumours, but if the last year has told us anything, BHVR are not ignoring the community, and given their recent work, it's not an unreasonable assumption that they could well have a lot of plans for Freddy in the not too distant future.
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Awesome? Is it possible to share a link or a screengrab please friend for those of us that don't have (I assume) Twitter? Cheers!
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Agreed, wired if you have the option is better. You may want to check your RJ45 cable is CAT6 at least. CAT7 is probably overkill for home network, but ofc better cable is better.
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There is a reason she can see you, she throws her crows at gens to check them. Obviously if she hits you she sees the crows aura for a few seconds, but if she misses you, but the crows go near you, she gets Killer Instict to show her there was a survivor near that location. As such Distortion doesn't work against Artist, unless she is trying for BBQ & Chilli snipes.
What helps me is keep an eye out for her firing crows (you can see their auras), and then use it to guess at her cool downs if she is not in chase. When you suspect she is gonna fire, quickly run away from the gen when you suspect she may check you. It takes her about 5 seconds to summon 3 crows and fire them. It takes 12 seconds to recharge. Accounting for time to aim, that's about 20 seconds until she fires a crow from the last time she fired. If you don't wanna be found, that's the time you want to have left the gen by.
If she is in chase already, hard commit to that gen while you can.
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@okaayletsgoo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3594094#Comment_3594094
So I guess in that mindset we should give huntress the ability to control her hatches mid throw and drag them to the side so that even if she misses she can whip the hatched across and score a hit. Since we are doing it for some why not do it for all? Pyramid Head misses judgement? Let him drag it as well and score a free hit.
I main Nemesis and I almost never need to drag whip to hit. The problem with y'all playing him is you force yourself to whip instead of hitting and easy m1 when they are up close.
Killers need to have counterplay and xenos counter play currently doesn't work well because single turrets are weak and the hitbox lasts so long for her m2 that it's unavoidable except by luck or random poor hit scan that needs to be fixed.
That's an asinine argument dude. All of those abilities are significantly further in range so of course they shouldn't drag.
Cool, you play Nemesis, so you ofc realise that the whole point of your killer is to be dangerous at close range with the whip, especially after you've had to spend the whole game charging up your whip. We are gonna get bogged down in this "free hit" thing I can already tell, but first I would say being able to change the angle of attack by dragging is logical. If you know how Nemesis hit box works, that is exactly what dragging does to the whips hitbox, and is a part of the power that doesn't need to be nerfed.
I am a Pig main, my equivalent anti loop ability is much less of a threat... so compared to me your ability is busted. However neither Nemesis or Xeno have anything close to my level of natural slowdown, nor my stealth abilities, so I would have to argue you character needs the ability to consistently land your power at loops because that is all your power has. For me to agree with you, you have to be able to me why the tail and whip should be harder to hit, when there isn’t much else to supplement your characters strength.
I as a survivor understand these powers can be dragged, and also expect it. If you've herded me to a spot and timed your tail/whip to where you have a near guaranteed hit on me usung a drag, I'm fine with you having it, because those abilities shouldn't realistically get missed when I'm wiggling under your armpits/in front of our nose. I do plenty fine looping these killers, even with the extra power dragging gives these already powerful killer powers. I also really enjoy playing vs. these killers, and applaud a skillful Nemsis or Xeno whenever one catches and kills me. So I ask again, why do these characters need a nerf?
If your argument here is that Xeno is over powered with its tail, turrets are weak and the killer should be nerfed, I would disagree with you and we could talk about that. It sounds like you aren't saying that though... you're saying they don't need a nerf... but this drag is a "free hit" they shouldn't have, even though I've already described the real life application dragging simulates... which I'm sorry... that sounds like trying to disguise a nerf as bug that isn't a bug.
I'm willing to hear the argument, but just saying "it's a free hit" (which it isn't, as indicated in the previous terrain block Xeno tail argument) is not good enough my guy. Why do these characters actually need a nerf to the reliability of hitting their power if they are not overpowered?
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I can clearly see now that this is Elodie analysing a shard using a small lens... but I first concluded this was her smelling a flower blossom, and I've just continued to believe it ever since...
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... Actually this sounds really cool...
Just being able to see her footprints, not through walls like Chucky, but whenever you have line of sight them would make Spirit more engaging to face instead of purely guessing on 50/50s.
That's the kind of change you could look at giving her better buffs elsewhere to compensate with a longer duration or whatever, and have her be a more fun killer to face/play in general.
Spirit is really cool, but can feel a little dirty to play sometimes, and this would help remove that feeling... I know some people will refuse this outright, but there is potential for this to be a fun change that would remove some of the ire that comes vs. Spirit, especially if smart Spirit's start walking back over their footprints to bamboozle survivors.
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I don't use no visual heartbeat cause I is an elite gamer bruv, innit!
Also I do actually still get immersed in DBD and the visual sensor ruins that. Especially when I've committed to opening a gate as the sole survivor... my real life heart races every single time 😁
However if people wanna use it, all it really is a more effective means of translating the same information... I wouldn't say its big enough to call it cheating, though I would say removing all tension from the game and then complaining "its not a horror game" is kinda on them really.
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@okaayletsgoo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593738#Comment_3593738
Not asking for a nerf just to fix the drag effect the tail has after a miss. The hitbox should end at the full extension of the tail
That is a nerf though... what you're doing is slashing the whip/tail across at an angle rather than straight down, which is exactly what you would do in real life if someone tried to dodge to the side.
Have you ever tried to land Nemesis whip without dragging? Between accounting for lag, the odd hitboxes, spin techs and invisible walls blocking hits on occasion, it's borderline unplayable without dragging... especially on console.
Xeno tail has all the same issues, but is easier to land because of the speed you can throw it out, however it suffers more with hitting terrain because that stops their tail immediately, which on turn means you have to aim well.
If someone is hitting you with a drag on Xeno tail they have successfully avoided catching any terrain while doing it, and otherwise aimed their drag well to change the angle of attack...
This is an unnecessary nerf that just dumpsters the killer...
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@endzej_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3593682#Comment_3593682
LOS breaking is Tricksters counterplay, it only doesn't matter if survivors don't keep their distance. But that's commenting on survivors mispositioning and not Trickster's power.
The counterplay to Trickster taking health states at a pallet goes the same as for Huntress, DeathSlinger, and any killer that has a lunge type of attack or a forward projectile. Survivors shouldn't allow these types killers to see their Pallet Drop animation otherwise it will result in a hit. If you stun them you get rewarded as a survivor with free distance. If Trickster couldn't punish survivors for misplaying pallets then his power is without purpose and any pallet loop would make him an m1 killer.
Trickster currently is an altruistic punisher; which enables him to at times be a territorial killer like many on the Killer Roster. The anti-camp mechanic stops him from just staying at the hook, he could only punish them if they encourage him to stay by immediately going for the unhook right after the hook happened or deciding to loop him around the hooked the survivor. But he still has to be very accurate and careful with his knives in order to punish their survivors for misplaying against him.
The reason we say Altruism stomper is due to a majority of Killers at any point could get body blocked by a survivor and have their chase ended because they can't proceed forward without taking a health state, while Trickster can to a degree deal with that, but again he has to have enough knives and be accurate enough. In that sense, he's like a ranged Bubba but has to hit all his shots to down them all while Bubba just chainsaw sweeps them.
With these changes, Trickster's power is a lot weaker as it would encourage survivors to disrespect his power since he can't punish 3 survivors for body-blocking him, not enough knives to down them all. It would require extreme accuracy. Your top-tier Trickster main right now has around 55-60% accuracy. Removing recoil won't help too much since you still need to hone in and aim well, he's not hitscan-based but a projectile character so a degree of prediction is always required alongside travel-time.
4.6 m/s only matters for map traversal, in loops his movement while throwing knives matters more since you're trying to minimize time in chase. 4.6 doesn't remedy the 10s decay since, over 10 seconds you get back 6 meters of distance. Distance shots are becoming less possible, while they already were inoptimal, meaning less experimentation with the killer is possible.
Making him similar to Back Rev Billy in a way.
The new Trickster will be decent at what he's already good at, but worse where he struggles the most.
Main event is only good when there is an element of surprise since you're locked into a walking speed that is slower than the survivor, if a survivor uses an exhaustion perk or loses a health state they're even faster than you and break LOS sooner. This leaves you to end main event and stagger yourself for 3 seconds. Which punishes you more when the decay timer is shorter.
Him being more spammy will require him to punish mistimed pallet drops than before.
Thanks! That clears up a lot of the gaps in my knowledge when reading through the doc!
I actually like the 4.4 version you propose more... get naturally encouraged to land knives more often, and from a newbie perspective, the shorter ME is harder to capitalise with, but also less punishing for screwing it up.
I would imagine these changes would struggle to incentivise many new players to pick him up though 🤔
The 4.6 version seems more radical and enticing to the less informed.
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Completely against any permanent haste effect on anyone, and MFT hurt the killers that didn't need kicking any further behind the top tiers than they already are. 100% deserved.
Also appreciate its identity as a high skill anti tunneling perk, even of Deathslinger and Legion had to take the bullet.