UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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Xeno is fine though... Good options for counterplay, fun and engaging for both sides if you use your brain... probably one of the better balanced killers BHVR has done.
In fact my only criticism is we didn't get to see how Xeno played at the 2m/s miss slowdown without the game breaking 0 slowdown bug... but Xeno is plenty fine with a high skill ceiling and engaging chases.
Maybe a little too good at tunneling... but what killer isn't right now?
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@FFirebrandd said:
For context for the unaware: OP's definition of cheating includes people's attempts to deal with bad eyes or bad monitors and get themselves back on an even playing field.
In fairness it's not an invalid statement, however it is a case of which you see as the lesser of 2 evils.
- Remove options for players who have legit accessibility issues from having the ability to play.
- Enable players without accessibility issues to use said feature for an unfair advantage over players that don't want to/can't use it
Personally I see the 1st as the unacceptable option, but that doesn't invalidate the frustrations of the 2nd... or disprove the elephant in the room that the 2nd is significantly more prevalent.
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@Seraphor said:
It would be quite a mess if different boon perks had different ranges. It would be difficult for survivors to understand what's going on, let alone killers.
Having one radius, one blue circular line which you cross or don't, is fairly important to the function of the perks.
But with CoH being nerfed, all Boon perks are now on a similar level, they're all relatively weak. That calls for a buff to Boons across the board, and range is as good of a shared metric to target as any.
I mean kinda, I guess it becomes a little more of a bait where you may need to walk all the way in to determine all the boons that are in effect...
Though tbh I've seen people complain about the loud sounds and glow of boons, and think it'd be fine with something a little more subtle. I'd be happy with the boon totem highlighted blue in the world, a blessed marker, and the buff symbol in the corner personally... maybe the audio cue.
I think it'd be simple enough to check, and I'd have to do that anyway to check for CoH at 24m if I saw say Dark Theory when I was 40m. It may even help me realise there is a boon in play that MIGHT have CoH.
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Console Noob Here, from my layman's perspective this looks like a very good analysis, I was able to follow very well. I do have a few questions, since chances to talk to high level Trickster players don't come by often...
From what I've heard in discussions around Trickster, a lot of Survivor's get frustrated playing against Trickster because of his ability to churn through health states from camping and mowing down the unhooking and the unhooked player, and also how breaking LoS and using pallets doesn't tend to save you cause he keeps chipping you down once he's on you. From your concerns about his lost strengths these critiques/frustrations seem to be justified?
Assuming so, you talk a lot about him being an altruism stomper, someone who can cut down survivors going for unhooks, especially hard punishing basement saves by chewing through player health states off hook. Would it be preferable to be pushed away from this style of play?
You also mention how the new 10 second decay hurts him a lot because it means he has to respect pallets more and has to be very accurate with his Main Event in order secure downs due to the slow rate he fires daggers at base, combined with the number of daggers it takes to down. Doesn't having to be accurate with your knives and knowing exactly when to pull them up at specific loops to maintain you laceration (easier at 4.6m/s) require skill expression?
Lastly does the fast charge of Main Event give a strong anti loop by virtue of the mind games having it on hand provides? Surely the constant threat of it does something to influence survivor behaviour at loops?
Not all critiquing the analysis, just asking because I believe the goal of BHVRs rework was to: -
- Help Tricksters map traversal and chase at loops with 4.6m/s (Pretty clear cut, but I'd assume to make him less reliant on hook camping/tunneling).
- Bring up his Main Event to occur more naturally. (I'd assume to free up Trickster players to use their knives when then want to, instead of having to constantly count around their proc of Main Event)
- Encourage a more machine gun rapid fire style of gameplay (as having to dodge knives constantly, which the rapid main event charge, no recoil, higher laceration count, and faster recovery from laceration all supports)
Are you against these tenets?
Apologies for the wall!
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3592981#Comment_3592981
No, I did understand correctly (on the second read though ^^ first time around I did miss it).
But let me explain a bit better what I mean: Nothing keeps a killer from picking you up and dropping you smack in the middle of a three gen or between two well progressed gens. At this point there are very few maps left where a killer can't make that distance with you wiggling free / jumping off. If you stay where you've been dropped, your team (now consisting of only three people) will have to start over in terms of gen progress - or will enevitably end up with a three gen situation (and again: by default a 3v1 three gen) - or even both; if they started working on the three gen right at the start of the match.
If you try to crawl out of the gen zone (where the killer can camp you and the gens) you will have bled out before you've made it to a place where you're actually pickable by teamies. If a teamie still attempts to pick you up, the best case scenario would be that you get downed three seconds later and get brought back to the gen zone. The worst case scenario would be that your teamie gets downed before they can actually pick you and now the killer has two slugs they can camp along with gens.
The only way survs could actually do something about this is with perks that a) make the pick-up near instant (and wait for an opportune moment where the killer is the furthest they tend to go before checking on their slug again) b) grant endurance. That's FTP-Buckle-Up. Especially the Buckle-Up part; if it's a regular pick-up the surv picking up would then expect to get hit while picking you up and either one of you two takes the endurance hit or, at the very least, ShiftW as far away from that area as possible while the killer counts to ten, sniffing up your butt and ready to swing.
Ahahaha, fair play that man, that's actually pretty smart... and unfortunate xD
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Don't really see a reason all Boons should be 24m. Makes sense to use the range as an important balancing tool.
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Not that I'm an expert, but from what I've seen, the Onryo was only strong with the iridescent video tape add on that turned back on your TVs you'd ported to if you knew timings on demanifistation hits.
You needed that add-on for your map presense and condemn stacking, as it was actually better for Survivors to let you teleport to the TV and disable it for 100s than it was to disable the TV themselves for 60s AND force them to build up condemned while carrying the tape. If the Onryo caught them with the tape and worked out the TV they needed, she could camp to force condemn upon them and kill them.
This means noone cared about your tapes, so your TVs were almost always available to you, which is pretty backwards if you ask me as a power.
The one thing that is a problem now is the fact Sadako can herp a derp teleport to build condemn to catch out newbie players, and otherwise struggles against high level players who know better. I made this suggestion upon her release that I still think would be a good change for her even now.
@UndeddJester said:
Condemnation Proposal
Nerf: Projecting to a TV inflicts 0.5 condemn stack globally to all survivors not carrying tape.
Buff: Projecting to a TV inflicts an additional 0.5 condemn stack to all survivors within 16m, regardless of whether they have a tape or not.
Current Gameplay
Onryo is quite polarising with the latest changes.
In soloQ/low MMR games she is a hefty pub stomp, porting around kinda mindlessly and building up condemn to easily nuke an uncoordinated team.
At high MMR however, Sadako struggles to get going, because survivors just grab a tape immediately, limiting her teleports and shutting down condem completely. Instead she has to chase them down to remove the tape from even one survivor, and since she isnt amazing in chase, she can struggle to keep up her pressure. Usually what helps her here is indoor maps that make finding gens harder.
Intended effect
The hope with this change is bringing back some of the skill elements of old Sadako. Greater rewards for good teleport prediction/usage, while simulataneously limiting the global condemn presense.
With only the global portion of the condemn blocked by tapes, Sadako can still apply condemn pressure to survivors carrying tapes at higher MMR where players know what they're doing.
And at lower MMR, she can get even bigger threats of condemn for good usage of her teleport... but she can't as easily just port around the map blindly and get huge condemn pressure for it.
What do you think?
It'd being back her skill expression, reducing the effectiveness of her TP spam, and allow her to still exert condemn pressure on tape carriers. If she scores her hits and the predicts their attempts to secure a new tape, she can really start to punish players even at high levels with heavy condemn.
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Hmmm... it's interesting, it may be worth considering doing something for Legion as he is gonna be a character sacrificed on the MFT altar. Will depend how much usage that gets, but I think high MMR (where MFT still has good use) will be rough for Legion.
Their main identity to my mind though is an anti-heal melee focused character, a niche occupied by them and Plague; the vault for Legion is an additional benefit to ensure Legion can keep that up. They also have strong tracking potential to find the target he wants to focus.
Thus the constant need for healing is their main form of slow down, and otherwise its securing m1s for hooks by capitalising on survivors staying in a vulnerable state. I'm not convinced giving them additional slow down would be well received on Legion.
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Is a fair point. Skin progression for legendaries would be really cool if a thing. If you get the base character to the prestige ranks, you unlock the alternative for the legendary as well. Additonal cosmetics you can buy for the legendary would be cool.
Considering how cool Capcom have been about their licenses though, I'd almost be tempted as an alternative to try and do a 3rd RE chapter, add them as new Survivors where people owning the legendary skin get them for free and then get AC to unlock a skin of their choice for the new character (or save for something else if happy with the base skin).
Regardless nothing but support for this 🤘
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591311#Comment_3591311
the 300% bleedout speed would make this perk hands down the fastest killing perk with near zero counterplay (only ftp buckle up could counter this to some extent). Just down surv, drop them in a place where you can camp them and three gens. Easy win. If they stay, it's gonna be the three gen game after they've bled out. If they crawl away they're just dead before they can get picked, or any gen is popped.
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On the main topic. Knockout is, similar to Boil Over, a perk that's toxic by design / the only situation where it's actually useful is with toxic strategies. - As for Knockout it's also by definition "not normal gameplay". Normal gameplay is hooking survivors. A killer that only ever puts survs in the dying state is not actually playing normally. Tbh, if devs are hellbent on keeping the perk they should remove the bleedout timer entirely; that way it's at least reportable as keeping the game hostage if the killer entirely refuses to hook.
Think you misunderstood, +300% while crawling. Not while staying still.
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I would argue the reason Batteries Included is getting nerfed is because of MFT. At end game ALL gens get powered, thats a lot of locations the speed boost procs.
So when combined with NOED its basically the Killer equivalent of Hope+MFT... so no, I see the change as reasonable to get ahead of a potential big problem.
I'd rather it be released underpowered than be busted day one and then get gutted after its ran amok for 2 months.
If it is disabled at end game though, I would say that it's power should translate to progressed gens than are not regressing too.
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The pain of Haemophobia stays with me 😵💫
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591627#Comment_3591627
I just want to see Bubba on a sledge.
Hah! Well played.
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You sure there wasn't a Boon: Shadowstep in play? That could also explain it.
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Seems like BHVR has been a little spooked by the recent backlash of stacking haste perks after Hope+MFT.
If this end game loss needs to be kept, it might be a nice buff to have Batteries Included give you it's boost whilst in proximity of a powered generator or a non regressing/non zero'd generator.
This would mean it'd work nicely with Surge, as you can go for a more chase based style to protect gens, trying to secure your down while in range... but doesn't synergise with Pop, Eruption, Pain Res or Ruin, as thise perks stop you getting the boost.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591320#Comment_3591320
You explicitly said neither of those two things, you said potential saves... Also unless the guy is under a pallet or right in the open you probably should still hook and not slug because then you basically keep two survivors busy.
If the guy is already near by, he will know where the other person went down without seeing the aura, otherwise sure I guess. But the problem with background player is more about that perk being overtuned than about the mechanic itself, we should not slap stuff on other perks, just because a perk is too strong.
Still perks that revolve around slugging people are just not healthy. I don't think it is a benefit do die faster and go next, like sure if you really don't want to play anymore but otherwise... Is that really gameplay that's wanted? Someone slugs you and you just give up after a minute? Great now people can even give up on the floor and we have a perk that is still so annoying they wanna do that? Not really a benefit... According to the wiki crawling speed is 70cm/s so with the 1 minute bleed out+50% reduction on speed you can crawl around 21 m. Sure you can move, but you don't really get that far, maybe under a pallet, but with not seeing the aura part gone after a few seconds I guess it does not reallly matter if you can move or not since they then see where you are.
I also don't think that bleeding out for hatch or tormenting less should be tied to a perk, if you think both should be in the game then as basekit and not bound to a perk. On a side note I don't think slugging for hatch/4k should be a thing, but hatch itself is also problematic, because the whole looking for hatch thing is just such a stupid luck based thing, but back to the main thing...
Getting slugged is super boring, giving perks incentives to basically slug more, or slug more safe or whatever is not something I would want, because it makes it more likely people will do so, and even then the perk will probably still not be meta or even good. We could come up with a far more fun interaction. Like let's say after getting downed by a basic attack, the next time you get picked up/unhooked your controls are reversed, because you got hit on the head, it would not be a good perk, but it would be funny and probably a meme perk, the duration would be debateable, you could even make it only activate under a different condition so it gives you some value, but at least this perk would give you a fun interaction, it would not be strong but also not annoying.
You explicitly said neither of those two things, you said potential saves...
Yeah OK I said potential save.. I meant as in flashlights or pallets... as an unhook is not a save that would be relevant to a perk that works on a dying survivor, but we'll chalk that up to a miscommunicaiton and move on.
Also unless the guy is under a pallet or right in the open you probably should still hook and not slug because then you basically keep two survivors busy.
I don't agree with this statement, as you are stating it's typically better to pick up and hook rather than slug to occupy 2 survivors... and that is simply not true. If you slug a survivor nearby after you get a down, you may get an extra hit they have to heal off, maybe even a down, and now you have 2 players down instead of 1, meaing a 3rd survivor has to come for the save. It's the Killer's choice based on thier assessment of the situation as to whether it is beneficial to slug or not. Whether you like slugging or not, it doesn't matter, it is a viable strategy in a number of scenarios, and a calculated risk for the killer to potentially lose a hook for the chance to get more hooks, or even win the game. If survivors don't wanna get slugged, they shouldn't be nearby, it's that simple.
If the guy is already near by, he will know where the other person went down without seeing the aura, otherwise sure I guess. But the problem with background player is more about that perk being overtuned than about the mechanic itself
He will know they went down, but if there are LOS blockers, he won't know exactly where, he won't know what direction they fell, and he won't which direction the killer is picking them up from. This makes it a strong deterrent to players lingering around for saves, cause they may get slugged, and even if they don't they have a much harder time pulling a save off.
I also don't think that bleeding out for hatch or tormenting less should be tied to a perk, if you think both should be in the game then as basekit and not bound to a perk.
It's funny you mention that, as I've made this suggestion before for a basekit "sprint crawl" that causes you to bleed out at an accelerated rate in order to move faster. I would slow down none sprint crawling ofc to say 75% and then boost this to 125%. Tenacity gives even more speed to make that perk better. Sadly ignored, but I'd still like the idea a lot.
Getting slugged is super boring, giving perks incentives to basically slug more, or slug more safe or whatever is not something I would want, because it makes it more likely people will do so, and even then the perk will probably still not be meta or even good. We could come up with a far more fun interaction.
My goal was to make the perk a healthier slug perk... not kill it my man... whether you, me or anyone likes it or not, slugging is a strategy in the game, and outside of the 4 man slug troll that Knock Out currently supports, I don't really have an issue with it, cause ultimately it was my fault that I was hanging nearby if I get slugged. I wouldn't expect the killer to leave me alone if I was.
As an olive branch though, this perk would still be painful to be hit by, and the reduced anti-save aura effect that I'm introducing would be more appealing.... though it kinda already does that even worse anyway... I even gave the aura block a shorter cooldown so that you are incentived to pick up immediately while the aura isn't there rather than going ahead and slugging.
Of the 2 I think this version is far less obnoxious than the current one.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591335#Comment_3591335
Thank you for your reply. We have at least the hot topic we already had often (50% killrate is not 50% winrate) out of the way.
The question, why 60% killrate is ballanced still stays.
Why is 60% killrate supposed to be ballanced then?
Not convinced you'll get a concrete answer on this one, but my personal rationale on this issue is to think about 2 kills being a tie, and then relating that to hook stages.
For a 2k on a killer you need a minimum of 6 hooks, and a maximum of 10 hooks. As we have this 6-10 split, we can logically assume that your "average" tie DBD game should expect 8 hooks, giving us our 2 kills.
However there is a problem with this... 8 hooks can ONLY ever give the killer 2 kills maximum... but it can also give you 0 kills (2 hooks stages each). So this cannot be your average, as this means that your "tie game" for killer can be 0-2 kills. As such you need the killer to get more hooks for your tie... and the best number is 9/12 hooks, as 10 hooks is a guaranteed 2k... obviously not a tie.
The problem with this being your tie game is 9 hooks is a guaranteed 1k, but in the same breathe, this has a maximum of 3k, so it is balanced... but as such the killer needs to have a higher percentage of kills than 50% for the game to be considered a tie, as they should in a tie game have at least 1 guaranteed kill.
That's how I figure it, the exact maths of 60%, I hate stats, but I'm sure someone could figure it out.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3591311#Comment_3591311
But what you described does not fit, because if you slug to prevent a fast unhook because a survivor is around then this thing does nothing, unless you already know where the survivor is chan chase him... I think they should just give the perk a whole new purpose and effect, because everything around slugging, getting bled out and not found by teammates is just super annoying and not healthy for the game.
I said flashlight saves and pallet saves dude, not fast unhooks. Ensuring noone is nearby is something you want to do, and if you confirm someone is nearby, it is absolutely an occassion you want to slug.
Taking something like Infectious Fright and my new Knock Out would be great at ensuring noone can make a save because either, they're nearby and you can slug, or you can pick up and won't get a 20meter Background Player sprint knowing exactly where you are.
The faster bleedout on movement combined with the slowdown means that a survivor CAN move if they REALLY need to, but they will most likely need their teammates to save them, and in the event someone goes for the full 4 man bleedout slug, they can't torment survivors for 4 minutes, they only get 1 minute, which is much more palatable, and can even allow players to bleedout for hatch.
Happy to have counter arguments BTW, but I genuinely don't understand your critique.
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The idea I think of this perk is to make slugging more effective, and while people hate slugging, it is reasonable for the killer to force Survivors away or punish players for hovering nearby for potential saves.
From the killers point of view when not using this perk to troll, you would want a perk that allows you to slug, but has a pretty reasonable chance of you being able to return to that survivor and still get your hook without excessive time wasting, or even complete loss of your target. The unfortunate downside is it also allows the 4 minute bleedout troll. So my attempt to fix it would be to switch the permanent and timed effects around, to something like:
Putting a Survivor into the Dying State with your Basic Attack:
- Reduces the Crawling speed by -50 %.
- Reduces the Recovery speed by -25 %.
- Crawling causes bleed out progression to progress +300 % faster (60 secs)
For the next 10 seconds, the following effects apply to the dying Survivor:
- Their aura is prevented from being revealed to any Survivor who is farther than 24/16/8metres away from them.
- Suffers from the Blindness Status Effect.
- Causes them to be deafened.
This would mean you can crawl away, but doing so will be much slower and will bleed you out much faster, so you are heavily incentivised to not move, but also severely limits the ability to troll survivors as well.
There is an initial block on survivor being able to see you from afar, which aids vs. background player, and also makes assessing, positioning and timing for flashlight and pallet saves more difficult, especially as the survivor can't see aura's themselves to assist their SWF.
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@tjt85 said:
Probably The Clown for me too. Hate this guy. If he gets me with one of his bottles then I'm hitting the dirt in seconds. I would say Skull Merchant because I don't understand how her drones work at all, but I've only faced her about 4 times so...
Honest answer though, any moderately competent Killer is my "worst Killer" to go against.
And truth be told, I probably won't be trying my best not to die against Pinhead, Ghost Face, Doctor, Wesker or Wraith.
Has to be Clown for me too... I get a huge mental block vs. this guy. I never know when to leave a loop, I never know when to throw pallets, I path bad... I just become an absolute Bambi vs. him.
Everyone else, I can end up making a bad move and I know I've made a mistake, but can usually assess that quickly and in a fraction of a second say "OK I'm caught, but what can I do to waste as much time as possible?".
Even a Nurse or Blight I have the mental presense to at least try and squeeze some extra seconds out of them... but Clown it's almost like I just pull Vincent's Pulp Fiction shrug and go down.
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I still maintain adding a short cooldown of say 20s after a rushed vault would help get rid of the "auto pilot" way of playing, which I do believe hinders new players significantly from ever actually learning tiles. Being forced to rememebr what you saw would benefit new players in the long run...
I also think itd be more fun and engaging with that cooldown as well, but ultimately... no, WoO is fine, I'd be against any nerf intending to reduce its popularity.
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As someone who was always a bit of a purist, I personally wouldn't use it cause being able to aim without the aid of a crosshair is a skill in of itself that deserves respect.
I used to frown down on it in games like Killing Floor, where the lack of a crosshair meant you have to trade speed for accuracy using iron sights. This gave the game more immersion and with time and skill you got a natural feel for where your aim was to land headshots, and so there is an argument it was more "legit".
However as I've mellowed out in my old age, it's not really a big deal to me any more. I'd recommend not using it, as there is a greater sense of pride to being able to do it without a crosshair... but ultimately anyone who gets upset about it is probably taking things too seriously.
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@Seraphor said:
It doesn't even need to be that fast. The point if Haemorrhage is to slow down/roll back healing, and waste medkit charges.
It could still do this even if it was -4%/s, for 100% in 25 seconds.
True, I just felt a comparable change specifically targetting these annoying scenarios would be better received than a nerf though 😅
I don't really have issue with the speed, just knowing the bar is ticking down while I'm literally waiting for the prompt saying "heal plz... Heal Plz... HEAL PLZ!".
Does Haemorrhage need a speed nerf would you say? 🤔
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@UndeddJester said:
TLDR: Give Haemorrhage a slight buffer before heal progress to depreciate.
Current Haemorrhage: -7% per second heal progress immediately when not being healed. (~7 seconds for 50%, ~14 seconds for 100%)
New Haemorrhage: -9% per second heal progress after 1.5 seconds of not being healed. (~7 seconds for 50%, ~12.5 seconds for 100%)
Since the healing nerfs in 6.7.0 haemorrhage and mangled have been pretty potent effects and quite good to run on killers. Haemorrhage is meant to punish survivors for using unsafe locations to heal that the killer can force them out of to delay their ability to recover a health state, and this is exactly what haemorrhage does. This is fine pretty much balance-wise IMO, but there are a few interactions with Haemorrhage that are a little irritating.
Currently Haemorrhage drains healing progress by 7% per second and begins the moment you are no longer being healed. Since DBD is prompt driven (we need the game to detect whats around us and register our action before we can do it), in certain scenarios, the immediate loss of progress from haemorrage can be bit of a nuisance from a purely mechnical perspective. We can end up losing healing progress, simply because we are waiting for the game to register we can start healing, rather than through any of the tactical/strategic reasons haemorrhage is being used.
This affects scenarios such as: -
- When using Resurgence off hook, even if you heal immediately.
- Using Solidarity when healing others even if you heal immediately.
- Having to move positions to let an ally through a narrow space to help healing, but losing about as much progress as you gain in the process.
- Starting healing a teammate normally, then deciding to switch to using your medkit to heal them faster.
- All of the above made worse when you accidently latch onto a generator, having sabotuer near the hook, or start self healing with your medkit by accident, then having to waste time and heal progress wiggling next to each other to get the right prompt to register and allow you to heal your ally.
You get the idea. None of this is Haemorrhage gaining value that's earned, it's merely just extra value and a minor annoyance piggy backing off an otherwise practically unnoticable issue of actions not being quite as responsive as the player might like in all scenarios.
I have also considered the idea of "Duck walking" where you prevent Haemorrhage by tapping healing every 1.5s...
Considering you would have to either use Self-Care or a Medkit to do this, and keep momentarily stopping still to prevent the health loss, that sounds like you're being massively ineffcient on time, and likely throwing the game anyway...However if it is an issue
Alternative Haemorrhage: Start off at 1% per second loss that scales exponentially up to 9% per second loss over the course of 2 seconds, to simulate a wound opening back up.
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I actually agree FTP is a pretty bad perk without Buckle Up.
For a while I kept saying FTP needs to be a health state transfer instead of "healing" for the purpose of perk interactions... before realising that totally kills the perk.
It seems like one of those perks that would always be bordering useless/overpowered. If you allow "healing" interactions, you have to factor it is for every healing based perk you ever create... if you don't, the loss of a health state isn't really worth it except for very niche scenarios that won't be common enough to bother taking.
If we go ahead with the health transfer instead of healing idea to prevent potentially broken perk interactions, it needs something else to make FTP viable.
A nutty idea I read the other day (I don't remember where) was to allow survivors to trade hook states. The idea suggested only allowing a survivor to transfer a hook state either way 1 time, so once you've taken or given a hook state, that's it, you can't do it again. This means a SWF for example could only do it 2 times as a team, which makes sense as otherwise it'd be busted AF.
It could be given to FTP, so if you go to a survivor on hook, you can use FTP to transfer a hook state to help prevent tunneling. The killer would see the sacrifice progress change if they pay attention, so they now know to go for the survivor who unhooked, so smart killers wouldn't be fooled by it.
However that doesn't mean the FTP player has to unhook, so if you can successfully hide who it was who sacrificed the hook state that has potential... and between being able to clutch anti-slug, and clutch anti-tunnel, that might see FTP be a perk that has enough potential to make its way into some builds.
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TL walls are a standard tile, one of those tiles with the 2 windows opposing each other. They get their name from what you can see above.
Typically speaking you want to loop clockwise between the 2 windows so you get easy fast vaults. A killer who knows better will try and force you anti-clockwise to make it harder for you.
There are a few guides you an find on YouTube that explore them in depth, but yeah getting good at Window loops is what beats Bubba... I think... I'm not precise enough to say I know from experience, other than knowing Lery's on Bubba is a pain is A xD
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I think a new player could probably get 100 hours out of it easily enough before it starts to overstay its welcome and they decide if it feels too samey or not, which is worth the price of admission.
If you're a nut bar like us degenerates then that 100 turns into a tonne surprisingly fast 😅
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I too get similarly rinsed by a good Leather.
I would guess its all about understanding his timings and always ensuring you're heading to the next window. Being good at TL walls I would assume would be your best defence.
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Anyone else suffering from Schrodinger's Decisive Strike? Simultaneously a perk and not a perk at the same time? When you take it, you don't get tunneled, whenever you don't take it, the Killer comes for you specifically like you owe him money...
I just had 2 games back to back, where I saw on my HUD the Killer found and ran past 3 of my teammates, got the wiggles and everything... and kept dropping chase until he found me...
I dunno who's cereal I spat in, but I actually managed to loop them both times through 2-3 gens, but it didn't matter, they we all over me like a Fat Cat on a pack of Dreamies. 🤣🤣🤣
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@09SHARKBOSS said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590164#Comment_3590164
man i play on an xbox one and its fine
its been years of this one console i was very young when i got it so it does have its own problems
Had to demonstrate my credentials as a console gamer... can't not bash the other side... it's like the law 😝
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590156#Comment_3590156
Unfortunately most of your disadvantages list kinda goes out the window when it comes to crossplay titles. You're gonna have a hard time convincing anyone no matter how outdated your PC rig is that you arnt outperforming the Switch gamer. The hackers and cheaters... are playing with everyone else too.
Yeah I was deliberately skipping over cross play... 😏
Crossplay is nice... console gets all the benefits of dedicated servers, which is great. I've seen people say the game was better before dedicated servers... but... no... honestly PtP frigging sucks, and I refuse to listen to any argument to the contrary. I remember when I would scoff at a server higher than 30 ping... wouldn't touch a server higher than 50. Now it's a good day if i get less than 90 on most games... 😫
However of course that does also mean we get to sample the fruit of hackers/cheaters as well... At least regardless of our differences... PC/Console gamers stand united in hating those swines above all others. I'd use a stronger term... but I've been done twice for being too loose with my tongue already in the forums 🤣
EDit: OFC to anyone who is still on a last gen console... please do yourself a favour and buy a PS5... Xbox if you have to, but either way, it's so much better on PS5 than PS4.
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Well, it's a kind of give and take really, and I'd be wary of "the grass is greener".
Advantages of PC: -
- More fluent and customisable control schemes in mouse and keyboard.
- Free online, usually with dedicated servers (though someone has to maintain that server).
- Ability to update components in PCs with modern specifications to maximise game performance.
- Games generally cheaper and usually updated sooner, with a larger catalogue of indy/small developer titles. Also test servers.
- Third party components as standard business model, allowing highly customisable or even cheaper set ups over console.
Disadvantages of PC: -
- Very high up front cost and need to constantly reassess system specifications. Developers are not necessarily forced to optimise as heavily on PC, also placing more demand on greater specs.
- Disparity of player systems, giving players with more expensive rigs an inherent and almost unavoidable advantage.
- Signficantly harder systems to protect against hackers/cheaters, and a constant arms race for all PC developers.
- Considerable maintenance required and possibility for compatability issues due to a wide catalogue of drivers and software able to cause unexpected conflicts and issues.
PC's are the best systems you can have for gaming, without question... However they require constant maintenance and have to deal with a lot of crap like hackers and system breaking bugs that consoles don't typically need to bother with (issues are usually resolved on PC and then arrive on cnsole with the fix already in it).
Consoles in my opinion generally resolve a lot of the more annoying problems you face on PC, but come with less freedom and customisation, and usually, with an overall cheaper gaming experience (anyone who says otherwise also seems to forget their £1000 graphics card they installed last month after selling their existing one from the month before 2nd hand for £200 xD) . If you have the patience and the bank roll to fund a PC, it's great, but if you just wanna play, console is better.
On console you never have to spend 2 hours reading forums for clues on how to reproduce an issue, and then another 2 more reading through batch files in a cloud system to discover some mook didn't bother checking his ERRORLEVEL values when he tried to copy your game data to send to the cloud, then blindly just going ahead and deleting your original save after the copy failed when you close the game... 3 times in a row... I'm not bitter Ubisoft! >.<
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590042#Comment_3590042
Its not really poor man's agitation it is more a part of the basement camp build... I think we could come up with something more useful, because it would not really be a good perk, but if you just want it to have a different function, sure, why not...
However I just would want to make flashlight saves harder and or nerf background player, because it just does not need timing anymore... Earlier u needed to at least put some time in to properly get the safe but now you can just blind whenever... And while we re on it you should not be able to blind when you are not even in the fov... That's just dumb.
I mean, it's pretty much a discount Agitation... it's basically the same goal of making reaching whatever hook you want easier. Basement build generally runs both, but outside of running both, I'd say Agitation is the more useful perk. Though truthfully it's not a argument I would be that invested in :D
So yeah... staying on the actual point, I totally agree that Background Player is pretty goofy atm... like as annoying as a flashlight save was, at least the guy doing it had to really know to what he was doing to pull it off.
Original BP I felt it did it's job fine before really, but wasn't gonna comlain at the small buff announced for the PTB... then the live version hit with everything cranked up to 11... and now even if you don't look at the gameplay side... it just looks flat out silly.:D
And yeah, blinding outside of FOV, I'd call a bug... but with this nonsense in here too, it feels pretty bad...
Still if not Iron Grap, a pickup speed perk is one I would like to see in some other forn that Fire Up. Something like Fire Up!, Bamboozle/Superior Anatomy, Brutal Strength and pick up speed Iron Grap would be a lark ^^
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3590034#Comment_3590034
You barely need timing for a flashlight safe these days... So I don't think it would be better than light or in any sense.
I don't disagree, background player makes all of it kinda trivial... numbers could be argued, but what is important is what do you think of the concept?
For flashlights you wait until the killer gets the survivor off the floor, and starts their animation to put them on their shoulder when you go for the blind. If you speed that animation up enough, that timing means they have to do it earlier, somewhere in the intiial pickup animation which makes it tougher to time, and also actually get into position. It becomes harder to execute overall...
You don't need it to work 5 times, you only need to catch people out once or twice, and that's hooks you wouldn't have gotten without it...
Whether its overly strong or not, I think a pickup speed on Iron Grasp is a nice little buff, and gives it an identity that doesn't exist in the game atm, as opposed to the poor man's Agitation that Iron Grasp currently occupies.
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@please_explain said:
I think Iron Grasp should be buffed so pallet and flashlight saves don't make the killer drop the survivor.
OPs suggestion is a hard counter tjat completely removes all counterplay around pallets, and is probably way too much.
@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3589221#Comment_3589221
Ok that might be an issue. Although I kinda need to see it now...
I really liked the idea of carry lunges, and was deflated when realising this broke it.😅
To throw my suggestion in the ring... There isn't a perk that does faster pick up speed as it's primary focus that I'm aware of. There is Fire Up! and that's it I think...
Perhaps a nice fair buff for Iron Grasp is to give it a 30% pick up speed bonus?
Would help vs. pallet saves, flashlight saves, etc without being an outright hard counter. A vet player could probably inform me of some point in time where something like this existed and it was broken somehow... but if not, could be pretty nice. Might even replace Lightborn for some players, as it'd mess up flashlight save timings.
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It's activation requirement is pretty darned ridiculous... but in the same breathe it kinda has to be... 30 seconds of Undetectable and +10% haste (Bloodlust 2) is gross when it fires off... and it can even stack with Bloodlust as well if it procs in chase for maximum Unga Bunga.
I'm not saying it shouldn't be buffed... but you have to be VEEEERY careful when buffing a perk like this.
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@jesterkind said:
I have a couple comments.
First, I'd like to mention that your rundown of it strengths and weaknesses isn't quite on point. You dramatically overstate its strengths by saying you can "use it any time you want to almost guarantee finding survivors" when the reality is that it's just a little more easily activated than its peers, and you also say its downsides are only that survivors are warned about this when it also has the dual downsides of being killer dependant and only giving you the weakest form of information in the game. I would not consider these pedantic differences, they make a real impact on the perk's strength.
Second, I'd say your rundown of the difference between skill gaps is a little bit... not sure how to describe it, misleading? Misguided? Basically, Ultimate Weapon is not what is relevant to either of those examples because the perk does nothing in chase, which is the main difference between your two examples.
Third leads on from this point, where you start talking about very strong killers like Nurse and Blight. The two confusing elements of this are that you make it sound like being chased by these killers is a lost cause when that's not even true for the best of the best players in the world, and the second is that you seem to be vaguely implying a problem with Ultimate Weapon specifically when the argument you're making would necessarily apply to all information perks, especially the stronger ones than Ultimate Weapon.
Finally, when you say that Ultimate Weapon forces survivors to loop the killer, there's a couple things I'd say there. Obviously, there's the main point that looping the killer is a perfectly reasonable thing to have to do in the trial, but there's also repeating the question of why you're singling out Ultimate Weapon specifically when this would apply to all info perks, and finally pointing out that the killer can still only chase one survivor at once so there's still the matter of which scream they follow up on.
Now, I'm remaining neutral on whether Ultimate Weapon is actually problematic or not for the purposes of this comment, I'm chiefly concerned with the arguments laid out in this post for now.
Thanks for the reply!
I do feel a little bit of a misunderstanding between us aye. My purpose in this post it to highlight the disparity of opinions on this perk in an attempt to end the back and forth arguing, and head to some kind of constructive consensus.
Since you've conveniently number your points: -
- I don't feel I did overstate but may have been a little unclear. UWs main appeal is it's activation is entirely in your control, and that means you can use it to find a specific survivor, exactly when it benefits you. It's not a "little" more convenient, it's primary strength over other information perks IS that can use it precisely when you want it, and its uptime means you're extremely likely to find your target when you do want it. Screams are not quite as useful for info as auras obviously, but screams do bring other benefits and are certainly not useless as info, Doctor does fine finding people with his blast. Also I would say, being killer dependant is not a weakness of the perk, it's weakness is what makes it killer dependent.
- You're right, UW doesnt help in chase... but my overarching point is UW almost always finds your target, and finding your target intiates the chase. A low level player doesn't typically want to be found, as they dont loop well, and UW forces it, so to a low player that seems OP. A high level player wants to loop the killer, as this is the best way to occupy the killers time, and UW gives them a pretty good headstart on doing that... so to a high level player UW seems mediocre.
- I'm not saying Nurse and Blight are lost causes at looping. What I'm saying is these killers are strong at anti loop. People say this perk is too strong on these killers, and the reason I'm highlighting is in both cases, stealthing against them initially buys additional seconds before having to try to loop, as these killers are stronger at looping than others. So being forced straight into looping by UW, enhances these killers primary strength, and I don't think that's a false statement.
- The reason I single out UW is because of its primary strength... the fact you can use it any time, and keep sweeping until you find your target. Other perks have limited windows, short ranges, long cooldown, or difficult conditions that prevent their constant usage. To summarise, UW is exceptionally good at eliminating stealth as an option, and forces players to loop whether they want to or not... and as looping skill is the main difference between high a low level survivors, UW creates a skill gap.
I hope that clears up my argument!
Cheers!
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I want to preface by saying I actually do like Skull Merchant personally.
I do however feel the combined effect of Hindered and Haste is a bit too much, and makes SMs kit feel cluttered, as if effects were stapled on until she finally became strong... and unfortunately haste is an easy way to make something powerful.
Being scanned by a drone while claw trapped needs something for it to be meaningful, but 10% Hindered is a pretty gross feeling to be hit by, an when it hits in conjunction with a minimum of a 3% haste boost to Skull Merchant, its a near guaranteed 13% swing, and that is pretty awful to be hit by, whether it was genuinely earned or not.
Not sure what could be done instead really that would be a worthwhile punishment for running into drone though that doesn't feel incredibly cheap. Maybe just SM gets an additonal 5% boost, so at least it is SM catching the survivor instead it breaking their ankles?
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Can someone correct me if I'm wrong please, I was of the understanding that MMR is on a killer by killer basis...
Doesn't that mean that the argument of having to pick Nurse or Blight doesn't make a difference, because your Trapper/Shape MMR will not pair you with the same level of survivors that your Nurse/Blight level will?
If you want easier matches, shouldn't you actually play a killer you're not as good at?
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If you remove her second blink you absolutely kill her without buffing her substantially elsewhere. Almost all buffs you could give her makes her more like the rest of the killer roster, and can easily rob her of her identity and making her a bland and boring killer with 1 trick to catch a lazy survivor at loops.
As powerful as Nurse can be in the right hands, like it or not, she has her own very unique counterplay and mind games, that simply don't exist for anyone else on the roster, and that is a valuable thing that shouldn't be discarded lightly.
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@CaulDrohn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588421#Comment_3588421
Ace, Hag and Doctor are not part of the base game in the Steam version, you have to buy them with shards, auric cells or as Steam DLC.
Don't know about consoles, but if that chars are part of base game with the console version, than Steam version should honestly change it similar to the console versions.
This Edition of Dead by Daylight gives you access to a roster of 7 Killers (The Trapper, The Hillbilly, The Wraith, The Nurse, The Hag, The Huntress and The Doctor) and 9 Survivors (Meg Thomas, Claudette Morel, Jake Park, Dwight Fairfield, Ace Visconti, Nea Karlsson, Bill Overbeck, Feng Min and David King).
Huh... apparently Feng Min is in the base game on PS4/PS5 too... I thought I bought her.
Oh well... interesting there is a difference.... live and learn I guess.🤔
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Not sure it needs the killer reveal tbh, 16m feels pretty small anyway and not very likely to give value.
If the perk had gens you reveal seen by your teammates as a permanent effect, and you remove the cooldown, that's a pretty cool perk imo...
Might be nice to have your aura revealed to your teammates for 20s after completing a gen so the team can see where you're going?
It's kinda like a help your team not to 3 gen perk. 😁
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Calm Spirit
Animals seem to trust you as they often stay calm in your presence.
- Prevents Crows from being alerted by your proximity and flying off, unless they are being stepped on.
- Suppresses the urge to scream from any cause at all times.
- Suppresses all noises related to unlocking Chests and cleansing or blessing Totems.
- For 30s after supressing a scream, reduces Chest and Totem Interaction speed by 40/35/30 %.
Balanced Landing
Your agility and cat-like relexes are incomparable.
When falling from great heights, you benefit from the following effects:
- Suppresses Grunts of Exertion and Screams from falling.
When not Exhausted you get the the following effects:
- Reduces the Stagger duration by 75 %.
- Upon landing, break into a sprint at 150 % of your normal Running Movement speed for 3 seconds.
- Exhausted Status Effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
"I have jumped from higher places." — Nea Karlsson
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@BlackRabies said:
I think it's fine as is. Really only a problem on Nurse and Blight, but that's a killer problem not a perk problem. Having a survivor scream the weakest form of information for the killer gives the survivor a head start to start running. The perk does nothing for the chase other than the blindness.
I really don't understand why others keep calling it OP I've rarely even seen it myself when I play survivor. Only time I've really seen this perk was vs a Huntress and since she has the smallest terror radius in the game she didn't need to go far to find me.
Well thats my conclusion basically. Ultimate Weapon forces you to loop. So if you're low skilled, or going against a killer really strong in anti-loop, then you're basically cooked.
As such the two scenarios it's a potentially problem are low skilled games and high skilled games vs. Nurse, Blight, Wesker and Oni. At all other times it's kinda meh.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588400#Comment_3588400
I bought DbD on Switch and I got Clown and Kate with it. I got everything up to Spirit and Adam's chapter when I bought the game.
Might have been a bundle?
Kate and Clown are available for shards, but are not in the base game. For clarity the base game consists of: -
Survivors
- Dwight (Bond, Prove Thyself, Leader)
- Meg (Sprint Burst, Adrenaline, Quick & Quiet)
- Claudette (Empathy, Self Care, Botany Knowledge)
- Jake (Sabotuer, Calm Spirit, Iron Will)
- Nea (Bakanced Landing, Urban Evasion, Streetwise)
- Ace (Up The Ante, Open Handed, Ace In The Hole)
- Feng (Lithe, Alert, Technician)
- David (Dead Hard, No Mither, WGLF)
- Bill (Borrowed Time, Unbreakable, Left Behind)
Killers
- Trapper (Brutal Strength, Agitation, Unnerving Presence)
- Wraith (Shadowborn, Predator, Bloodhound)
- Hillbilly (Enduring, Lightborn, Tinkerer)
- Nurse (Nurse's Calling, Strider, Thanataphobia)
- Hag (Devour Hope, Third Seal, Ruin)
- Huntress (Huntress Lullaby, Territorial Imperative, Beast of Prey)
- Doctor (Monitor & Abuse, Overcharge, Overwhelming Presence)
There is an argument that while learning the game, it's probably better not to have too many meta perks, so the player can learn to play without them instead of relying heavily on them.
Edit: Seems this applies only to consoles, I missed Feng as a free char on console somehow. But I'll update for my own reference in future 😁
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@Astel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3588063#Comment_3588063
I never thought it was overtuned. In fact, hemorrhage shouldn't affect you a lot because survivors normally heal themselves in safe areas, so there should be no reason to cancel healing. Words from the player who plays both sides and even play SoloQ more.
That's not my experience, I'm reluctant to say Sloppy is OP, cause I'm not 100% sure it is, but I have noticed a correlation with my games being much harder with Sloppy in play.
I keep getting hit and run players who try to hit everyone and then play a style where they hunt around the area whenever anyone comes off hook.
You have to be so wary of getting tunneled with Sloppy, you need to make a lot of distance from the hook to ensure you aren't found, if possible try to find somewhere that isnt a dead zone if you are found, and then take longer to heal and hope you're not interrupted. If you are, then even if you manage to escape unscathed, you're still back to square 1.
All of this drastically eats up gen time... and if you're against someone like Sadako who also forces you to deal with her tapes, or Wraith who really hunts the area for you, or anyone running Ultimate Weapon, it's tough to get any progress on generators going...
I'm attributing it to the fact I loop like chimp... as the obvious counter to this is you're looping halfway competently, then the issue never presents itself... but the moment I see Sloppy in effect, I know its gonna be a hard game.
Edit: Actually being on topic, this perk would probably never be meta, but would be usable in select builds if Sloppy wasn't common/effective against.
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Does anyone else feel weirdly unsettled by their own lack of footstep noises?
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Taken a real liking to Desperate Measures lately myself. Offsets Sloppy Butcher and becomes a pretty hefty bonus when everyone is injured. It's also a budget No One Left Behind when trying to unhook during EGC.
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Just as a good faith note for the future, it might be worth crediting your sources, or linking to their video if you're taking screenshots from it to express the exact same point.
https://youtu.be/GsK3mP9R96c?si=_qAwh-xljcDrrAImHowever yes, I broadly agree with the point.
The loss of these perks for new players will be limiting no doubt, however I think its worth factoring the roster of free characters perks in this assessment.
For Objectives you also have:
- Unnerving Presense, Brutal Strength, Hex: Ruin, Thanataphobia, Hex: Huntress Lullaby, Overcharge
- Prove Thyself, Streetwise, and there's quite a few that loosely fit here, like Deja Vu, Saboteur, Ace In The Hole, etc.
Not all of these are good ofc, but a new player will be unlocking perks up to level 44ish for a new character, and while a lot of these perks aren't good, for a new player they're serviceable. Like we all know that Unrelenting is trash, bit for a new player, it helps, and Huntress Lullaby will do well for a rookie player against rookie survivors.
That said, expanding on the basic perk repertoire, is certainly not a bad thing... assuming we got some adequate new ideas to fill the gap 😏