UndeddJester
UndeddJester
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617050#Comment_3617050
i fully agree it contributes a lot to game's atmosphere and theme, and that's the only sensible reasoning behind it's existence because it's awfully unbalanced. 2 entrances to it and hills would be my solution too, it would solve a bunch of its problems like body blocking the stairs, especially as twins or trapper and killers expecting rescuers to come from one way and camping it.
about the spoiler, it would actually lead to lots of clutch moments, but basekit bt would need to last a lot longer for basement rescuees if they'll need to traverse that long of a path. or going into that hallway could prolong the effect. i'd also change the door logic in favor of survivors and not make that path too narrow.
Wouldn't that be the point of Dead Hard, Off The Record and Borrowed Time though? If not it would have to be body blocking and cooperation required to get the survivor out.
You could also consider scattering where some go one way, some go the other. Regards to the doors being narrow, Basement should still remain the Killer's advantage, and if the Killer catches survivors using the escape route, the killer should be able to block them in and lock the door behind them.
That's the risk/reward that comes from this change. My goal is not to make basement an even and balanced scenario. Basement should absolutely be the Killer's advantage. My only frustration with basement currently is there is basically nothing to be done if the killer camps the entrance. You either trade, or you lose a player.
The escape route gives an alternative option to still try... but if the survivors misplay it, you get locked in with the killer, and potentially give them a 3k.
I'd probably add that the wiggle progress is 10% slower in basement as well... as that's my main concern of this corridor 😅
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IMO Empathy is one of the best info perks in the game. It's got a massive range, no cooldown, helps you find any wounded survivors for heals, allows you to see the player in chase after they get wounded to decide to go for saves/work on gens.
This idea is a nice effect though tbh... I don't thimk Empathy needs it, but I'd keep this effect in my pocket and consider it for another perk.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
coup the grace already has that issue of losing tokens because many times, gens pop in in sequence, aka 3 gens in 1 chase. The token system is why it creates that need to conserve but when I use this perk, I use perk right away because not using it right away makes you lose 5-10 seconds for wanting to save the stack.
the point of chase perks is to shorten chases and if your spending 10 seconds to conserve stacks, your having negative time efficiency. Like any time you save to get a hit would be time you lose from saving stacks. Ideally, this perk shouldn't have any tokens and just improve base-kit lunge by same amount.
The one perk I wish was a little better was Gameafoot. I wish it switched obsession on every basic attack rather then total length. For survivor, I wish This Is Not Happening had better numbers.
Wouldn't that be the point though? I mean if that's the concern of Coup (which of course it is), Deadlock is the obvious combo to ensure you wouldn't lose your stacks. Maybe Infectious Fright with Dead Man's Switch and Monitor and Abuse or something.
Coup to my mind is a pretty strong perk that allows you to get some gnarly hits, and encouraging you to use it, to go for it like you do yourself, seems a good move to me. The improved lunge as a flat effect would be busted though. It's like a mini Pig ambush with no wind up 😅
Game Afoot could use some love, on every basic, Nemesis would give you an aura read each time as well which sounds pretty tasty combo. Perhaps simply giving the switch a simple cooldown of 20s so we don't get obsessions switching constantly during a slug. That way you land a hit on a hovering/sluggable survivor near your down and still get Furtive Chase with it...
@RFSa09 said:
two can play and autodidatic
Interesting, tell me more 🙃
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If survivors aren't complaining about you... do you even matter? 😏
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@NerfDHalready said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616653#Comment_3616653
you probably wouldn't agree when i say basement shouldn't exist, would you? he already needs to hang around basement if he turned it into a minefield no? otherwise survivors can just disarm and save for free so nerfed self rescue wouldn't make much of a difference in that case. i like your idea though, 4 seconds per attempt and only successful on either 2nd or 3rd attempt, never first.
i'm dreaded to play him and see people save themselves in my face while i was ALREADY CHASING THEM. nothing feels worse than that. you can't set "smart" surprise traps around the map either because they won't work, they will almost always save themselves before you arrive, so you have to just play him as an antiloop killer which is super boring. i hate seeing traps on every window and pallet in sight but that's what trapper needs to do.
It's... one of those things where I understand from a gameplay point of view that Basement is pretty abusable and can create very 1 sided scenarios that allow the killer to play really nasty and be borderline uncounterably unfair.
However... in the same breathe it is a classic trope of horror... and it does carry the fear that it should... and the core idea I think is really cool, and something that definitely should be in the game... I personally would have done it differently, but I think BHVRs iteration does fit the bill of a dangerous and scary place... if that makes sense?
If it were me, I'd try and improve basement for counter play and more potential scares. In case you were interested:
If it were me... (and this is kinda riffing off my head), if I take the current version of basement I'd make it have something like a connecting narrow corridor to a second entrance with an auto locking doorway that the killer can use freely, but survivors have to unlock (lockpick style, but similar timing to an exit gate).
This second entrance can be opened by survivors but this has an noise alert upon opening, and a time limit that it stays opened for... say 30 seconds? The path would take say 12 seconds to traverse, have no pallets or any slow down. Once locked, the door cannot be opened for 2 minutes. So if the killer guesses you, and moves to intercept, or any other delay on unhooking, and you might get trapped in basement.
Would offer an alternative and hopefully nail baiting escape attempts before the basement door locks and leaves you trapped in with the killer.
^ Something like this ^
That would be how I would do it, and this would be the route I'd go instead of basement removal... obviously this is too much a map overhaul to suggest, but I like the idea.
EDIT: Relating back to the OP, I still prefer the idea of the green Trapper Bag instead of the purple Trapper bag. In conjunction with the traps at gen change, this would be a little healthier imo.
Trapper is the basement God, but making it even easier to do is my concern 😅
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Yiiiiiikes the ankle break, sounds like it would be not well received by survivors... although I assume this is in place of wounding the survivor? No boost after getting hit? Or would it be like Nemesis Tentacle?
My big concern is any survivor who knows what they are doing is very hard to catch with an ambush. Piggy's main issue is she has no real strength in chase, and is very vulnerable to people running pallet to pallet. A lot of her strength tends to come from being nasty with her RBTs.
I suppose some potential of this idea is if the slow down is substantial enough, it might be better to ambush at gens instead of trying to go for the grab all the time... but I don't think survivors will be too happy... Pig can already be pretty mean, and this would feel especially personal 😅
Of course one must always summon our Lord @radiantHero23 to any discussion of our Lady.
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I've had games where some auras are red, and some are like a yellow/orange colour... and I never knew why... it's event gens huh? Yeah blue would qlso be fine, like the 7th anniversary blue?
Most of the time, an aura is an aura, but I've had confusion from it with Surveillance or Eruption where I struggle to notice the difference in the heat of moment.
I've also had weird interactions where I've been running Eruption and the gen I've hit with Eruption stays yellow after it pops... I suspect this is Calm Spirit preventing the Regression and thus preventing the aura removal... but I always forget to confirm either mid game or at the end.
Regardless... gen aura colours confuse me in general. I'd like a better distinction between effects, e.g. Eruption, Discordance and Surveillance.
Something like:
- Red for a normal gen.
- White for a blocked gen. (Deadlock/Dead Man's/Corrupt)
- Orange for a trapped Gen (Eruption/Call of Brine/Surveillance not triggered).
- Yellow for a revealed gen (Discordance/Surveillance triggered)
And this:
@appleas said:
Would be nice if they could just let players choose their own colors for gens and auras. I don’t even see the logic of changing the aura colors of gens for events to yellow.
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Killswitch I would have thought would simply be something like a property of the object like:
TextName: Nowhere To Hide AuraDuration: 5 AuraRange: 24 EventTrigger: killerGenKick() Enabled: false //here's your killswitch
To killswitch a perk for a particular killer, you'd need some way of binding those properties together, which starts to get ugly fast. You'd need some way of saying:
When Killer selects this character, and this perk is killswitched for that character, then disable this perk...
You don't want your killswitch to require you to inject this instruction in the code, it has to already exist so that when you modify the property to killswitch it, the game just picks ot up and carries on... and this is something you have to do for every item/perk/character/event in the game.
Branches (if statements) have big performance impacts on software. If you can avoid them, you should, and that's why there is so much money in (and companies are very guarded about their) branch predictions hardware. Even with it though, you don't want an "if" running on every event.
E.g. What if blast mine gets a bug that causes permanent blindness if the killer kicks a gen while undetectable? How do you bind this together for a selective killswitch? Do you have to run this question on every single interaction in the game, which could easily slow the game performance to a crawl?
The permutations of potential interactions are astronomical. Hope this gives some insight into why this is far more complex than you think.
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@NerfDHalready said:
unpopular opinion, but i don't think it should. most trappers would just drown one area in traps (basement or a 3-gen) before the match even starts. with spread-out traps he can't, which is a better design. BUT, what he actually needs is some very very heavy nerfs to self rescue from traps, so he can actually play around the entire map (or you know, can expand past 20 meters from his trapped area).
It's a double edged sword is the problem... because Trapper can always lockdown basement, even without that add on... he just is far more efficient at it with it. If self save is made worse he becomes even better at it...
Mind you... What I do love about Trapper is yes he is weak... but there is that horrible feeling shift when your teammate goes down and you think "excellent, we're making good time"... only to see the notification bubble appear under the floor... 😨😨😨
There are not many things that scare me, but that moment is always a "Oh.... Oh God No...." 🤣
It might be nice if Trapper gets a Pig like buff... where escaping traps tends to pool around the same time. I'd probably prefer 3 attempts with double the odds at 4 seconds an attempt, rather than 6 attempts at 16.6667 taking 1.8s. Would make traps more consistent.
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Nah, with the level of content cover DBD gets you don't need a try before you buy mechanic. You literally have 1000s of hours of footage of what ever you're looking at.
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Don't think they can not give you the characters/cosmetics you own on cross progression, because how would you differentiate between things you unlock with shards, and things you unlock with cells?
Obviously licensed DLC would be Cells only, but if an item is unlocked for your account, it's unlocked. So I'm not convinced it is possible to do a halfway cross-progression unless they keep an exact tally of how you unlocked each character.
I suspect this is the reason they can't do cross-progression. No way to give you things you've progressed, without unlocking tbe DLC content too... which might have trouble with the respective platforms.
Only way we see cross progression likely is if the price of all DLC goes up to account for the additional cost of that DLC to allow it to be migrated.
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Skully needs something to be chopped out of her kit... she is overstacked right now. The kit has the potential to be engaging now with the scan lines approach, this was a REALLY good change to my mind, as the complete unavoidable AoE was just dumb... but she's still got too much in her kit at the moment. There are quite a few options to chop... but whatever one chooses, she needs to drop something.
I've been wondering for a while now if making her a 4.4m/s killer fixes a lot of her issues.
The fact she has such a powerful anti loop tool that: -
- Cuts off the ability to loop and makes it very hard to leave.
- Scans give her a speed boost that makes her even stronger at cutting off that loop.
- Scans give her a permanent live time track that prevents any ability to mind game, and also punishes a survivor for trying to leave.
- Naturally slows down the ability to run for saves/tap generators.
Makes it seem like she needs a hefty trade off. The 3% makes her 4.52m/s, and the 5% makes her 4.6%. I'd be tempted to make this "when chasing a scanned survivor 3%, when chasing a claw-trapped survivor it's 5%" flat buff.
The extensive boons she gets from survivors being scanned makes a lot more sense if outside of that she has a hard time keeping up.
The stealthing up to Survivors still works nicely at 4.4m/s, especially if you build for it, and the loop cut off seems reasonable to say she would be vulnerable to pre-running.
The fact she'd be 4.4 might encourage the 3-gen playstyle, but since you get the speed boost in chase of scanned/claw trapped survivors now, it's more a "you need to commit and use your loop shutdown with your speed/scan abilities while you have tjem" type deal.
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There is however the ability to fake the pallet. You step towards it like you're gonna throw then don't...
If the Xeno doesn't throw the tail, they either: -
- Respect the pallet and you win that exchange.
- They don't respect the pallet and they are actually trying to m1 you, winning that exchange... unless you can guess and react with a pallet throw if you're brave.
If they do throw the tail: -
- They straight up fall for the bait and miss, which slows them to 1.2m/s for 3s and you make a nice amount of distance. You can even just throw the pallet in their face now that its safe for either a stun or to use the loop.
- They manage to flick at you, in which you can crouch/try to juke or try to gain distance off the successful hit.
These kind of things are basically what every mind game in DBD is predicated on. If you guess/execute wrong, the killer should acore a hit, if the killer guesses/executes wrong, you stall until the next exchange.
There are characters that shut down loops hard, but Xeno is quite mind game-able compared to something like Artist or Skull Merchant.
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I think it's a great piece of levity in the game. There are few things that make being tunneled funny more that defiantly baffing Wraith in the face moments before he slaps me 😁
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615320#Comment_3615320
This is a problem that can never be solved, unfortunately. Controller movement will never be quite as accurate as M&K. The devs could allow for higher sensitivities on controller however. That would at least help with this issue.
But I don't think that cutting skill expression from a killer is a good idea, no matter the reason. I am all for trying to create equal conditions for everyone but this is in my opinion the wrong way to do it. Instead of trying to fix the issue that console players are at a disadvantage, they limit killers on M&K. That just feels wrong.
@RomeroJane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615320#Comment_3615320
I do agree, that's why I shared the concern about that, but also about accessibility in general to not make it like "You need to move the mouse all around your desk", that would be a limit for who's physically not able to do it. Working on the base turn would be ideal.
Indeed it'd be an interesting study case for how to bring console up to PC level.
Perhaps allow flicks for PC, but increased turn arc for console? Same result, different means of getting there... but then you have the issue of different behaviour based on platform... so maybe just as problematic.
As a console gamer I'd like the greater turn arc... as that would solve my issues... but I know that's no good for PC 😔
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This is where I'm kinda in the middle.
While talking to @Xernoton, who explained the advanced flicks to me, the big issue that comes from the above changes are... you simply can't flick on console, it is not possible due to how the input works.
The skill expression is a big thing, and something I advocate for... I love facing a good Hillbilly, Oni and Wesker, I'm less enthused about the Blight, but I respect him, and the advanced tricks on these killers are out of reach on console. Chucky's limited turn arc for Slice and Dice + Scamper is really hard to use on console, there are a very select number of places you can use it and reasonably expect to score a hit, but PC players could subvert this limited turn arc and last massive flicks that console never could hope to do.
Having a killer who is basically locked out of controller use due to the nature of their power is not good. The scamper under pallet is possibly too easy on PC, but the current iteration where he cant flick makes him reasonably consistent across platforms.
If we get rid of scampering under pallets flat and are forced to use slice and dice, rather than flicks, I'd prefer his turn arc was increased instead, so the skill expression is more from him being able to position correctly and get his hits from his turn arc is there, but isn't such a huge disparity vs. console.
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I started DBD in May this year (2023), so was also pretty new, and by DBD standards now at near 800 hrs, I'm still pretty much a baby.
However the big issue really is that DBD is a complex game with a lot of subtle mechanics. It's the same thing as something like Counter Strike. You can learn the basic idea in 10 minutes, but to actually get to the point you're not getting 1-bulled the moment you turn a corner takes at least a couple of months.
What helped me more than anything was watching content creators for both killer and survivor side to understand key concepts/ideas quickly, such as: -
- What a 3-gen is for both killer and survivor.
- What a "strong" pallet is, and why you loop it (survivor), break it (killer).
- Which characters to go for early for good teachable perks. E.g. Meg and Kate or Feng / Hillbilly and Clown or Legion.
- What a T-L wall is, and why you want to loop it clockwise (survivor), anti-clockwise (killer).
- Basic loop mind games like pallet/window fakes (survivor), and hiding your red light (killer).
- Especially for Killer, watch a guide on how to play that killer.
That said, I do sympathise with a lot of these issues. I'm making sure to tell everyone of the THANKYOUFOR60M code to get off the starting blocks. 1.2 million BP is a character level to unlock something, and the shards get you well on the way to a new character for the same pretty early.
- I agree a new player BP bonus would be welcome for at least the first 3-5 million BP or so. That would be enough to complete a season and start getting something going to a reasonable degree.
- This is a new issue with the loss of the Stranger Things general perks. Short of making new perks, a new player bonus to iridescent shards drops early on would help them pick up a character they want early and potentially get some decent perks... at the very least, they can unlock someone they want to play to stay invested.
- Not sure on this one... your friend tried changing to colour blind mode? I've not played with it myself, but a mate of mine with Colour blindness seemed fine when he changed the colour blind settings... though wasn't his type of game. I found out later he doesn't like horror at all... so fair play really xD
In truth though my advice to any new player, seriously consider before you start if you'd be happy to buy the paid DLC, and factor that in to your decision to play it.
Licenses can be pulled any time (Stranger Things), and if you want to get the most out of the game you will likely consider buying the paid DLC anyway. So have a serious think, if this is the kind of game you'd likely enjoy, and actually consider putting the money into.
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@HugTechLover said:
I’m not gonna lie, this would make chucky absolutely MISERABLE to play, and would render him extremely 1) weak, and 2) subject to bullying by good swf’s.
3) It's extremely hard against the characters lore, since the whole reason he was outed as a possessed doll in the first film was the fact he was operating without batteries.
Op: while appreciate the passion, Chucky is not that oppressive, especially since his flicks got fixed/nerfed. He is a 4.4 killer so is vulnerable to pre-running. If he uses Hidey Ho to close distance, you know he doesn't have it at loops if he doesn't use it, you can mind game and fake at distance, since he had a hard time seeing around LoS blockers
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I hear you man, I mixed cosmetics to get this version of Kate that hits a decent Metal vibe. 🤘😁🤘
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I disagree with this notion, as if you talk to high skill survivors, all they face is Nurse and Blight, because they are the only killers able to pose a reasonable challenge.
If your MMR is lower, you go against worse killers. I rarely see a Nurse or Blight, because I'm not a high skill survivor.
So MMR is doing what its supposed to be doing, and I'm reminded of an old league of legends saying. If you can't carry your team, you're at the level you belong.
Is it infuriating when you're being camped on hook and your team is hovering around, preventing the AFC, not committing, wasting time and your hook stages for 0 gen progress? Yes it is. However that's your fault for getting caught in the first place. I'm too altuistic for my own good, and the correct way to play, is if your team are amoebas, you need to not take risks for them, because the trade isn't worth it.
EDIT: And yes, I did type this jusr after being hook camped on Midwich by a Doctor after saving 4 camped players off hook, escaping him long enough to make him break chase, getting 1 or the 2 gens we had done single handed with 2 more at 50% progress by my hand... only to watch my teammates wander on the edge of his TR for 2 whole minutes while I died on hook.
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@chezkro70 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614467#Comment_3614467
I dont care. Delete her!
You do realise the obvious response is:
I don't care you don't like her. Eat your DC penalty.
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Why Claudette... your voice is much deeper than I thought it would be.
In seriousness, balance is a concern, and voice comms in SWFs can't be denied as an advantage... however SWFs are gonna have party chat anyway, and won't bother talking to solos in a voice chat proximity system.
As a solo thrre is the immersion hit. I not sure I wanna listen to Keith from Barnsley telling me "Yo mate, wut ya doin like? Ge' on tha gen", and harassing me when I try to set up CoH or something. Seriously I'm not sure i trust the community with voice comms, its already toxic enough. The elephant in the room is VC grants the ability to verbal harass, and is a serious issue that shouldn't be understated.
I know quite a few female players in DBD, and it's one of the few games where the average female player doesnt have to deal with meat headed idiots giving them crap all the time. Sure you can report and mute people, but the point is the average female player has to do it way more than most male players. You also get slurs towards pretty much anyone with an accent. Over my 30 years playing games, the most positive change I made in games was turning off any and all chat, cause it aint worth the aggrevation. Even without all that stuff, you still have times people get angry and upset at being sand bagged and yell dumb stuff, just cause they're angry. None of this would be healthy for DBD.
My point is, that if such a feature were added to DBD, I myself, and a fair number of players would turn it off anyway or are in a SWF, so you won't hear things from a decent portion of players regardless.
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As far as bugs go... this one is fascinating... what a strange interaction.
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Still see potential in her myself.
Her kit is overloaded atm, but the change to the sweeping drones was a great improvement. Avoiding the beams MGS style while going for saves or moving to gens/looking for totems is the fun part of her kit. However getting shut down at loops is not.
I'd personally:
- Remove the Hindered effect from getting scanned while claw trapped.
- Remove the scaling scanned survivors speed.
- Make her a flat 4% faster when a scanned survivor is in her terror radius.
- Make her a flat 4% faster when a claw trapped survivor in in her terror radius. (Claw traps last longer).
- Getting scanned while claw trapped zaps the survivor, preventing them from vaulting or dropping pallets.
This makes it so that her setting up a drone will make her undetectable, and cause her to lose her speed boost from having a scanned survivor in her TR, meaning closing down a loop by setting up a drone doesn't come for free and can be outplayed.
It ensures every player understands what speed of Skully they are dealing with at any time, and ensures those speeds booats are related to teh lamyer being currently chased, not a rando who stepped ina trap on tbe other aide of the map. (its even hard for Skull Merchant herself to keep tabs on how fast she is going sometimes currently).
Between the broken, deep wound and the fact survivors positions can be easily tracked by Skull Merchant, she can decide who to pursue, and will have a speed boost while engaging on that target. Closing down a loop and using the rotate option at the right time to get the zap and help her score her hit will grant her skill expression.
With these changes a lot of the things like her drones coming back online instead of being disabled, her fast recall, etc, etc all are in a fair spot.
It also keeps the parts of Skull Merchant that are fun to play in tact, so people who do like her, don't lose their killer.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614350#Comment_3614350
The difference between gens being on the edges of the map and for example Ormond is that the distance between those gens will still be lower than the travel distance on Ormond, just because the map is that big. Let's say it is about that sweet spot of the map being not too big overall but the gens being far enough apart from each other so you cannot 3 gen.
I don't think larger maps are harder to 3 gen, it all depends on how the gens spawn... Think about old Mothers Dwelling, it was possible to basically have a 3 gen around the main building where gens were like 15 m apart from each other, sure you needed to walk up the main building to protect that one, but if you just stand up there you can look at all 3 of them and reach them within seconds. And that was the biggest map in the game... If the gen spread is terrible the 3 gen is quite easy, otherwise not.
I would not say smaller maps exist for that reason, nor did I notice the amount of clutter and LOS blocker being bigger on these maps? Once again, all about the distance between gens and not the map size, necessarily... Sure if you make a map the size of one floor of midwich not getting a 3 gen will be tough, but even smaller maps like coal tower are big enough.
I don't think patrolling is that much harder, because you don't necessarily need to go really close to them, but can more or less just stand in the middle and look left and right to see if someone is sitting on the generator, or maybe go close enough to hear the gen, in case the gen is behind a line of sight blocker. As long as there are no haddonfield fences or too many line of sight blockers the pre running will be rather hard, because they are already at the edge of the map.. Which would be another benefit, you cannot really run towards the opposite direction the killer is coming from, this also helps the more imobile killers, because if you prerun you don't get as much distance and the killer can possibly cut you off way easier.
Map traversal would decrease compared to bigger maps, as stated before I think the travel distance would be less between coal tower edge map gens and Ormond normal gens.
Coal tower is a rather small map, usually you can traverse the map entirely until even the first gen pops.
To answer the last question in short, despite me probably already answering it in this big text...
- Coal tower edge map gens will probably still have a shorter patrolling distance than bigger maps do right now.
- Pushing them to the edges makes pre-running less effective, since you cannot run in the opposite direction, making it easier for the killer to cut you off, because you can only run along the wall, if the killer is properly approaching you.
That means less traversing than on big maps, hopefully less pre running.
I don't know if campings you that far, since you cannot camp inside a 3 gen anymore, so you will probably just a 2k? technically it is still more efficient to just juggle two survivors and hook them until they die at 6 hook stages total. But I don't think this is still part of the 3 genning issue ^^
I mean, ofc 3 gens that are specifically put in close proximity, it will be good for 3 genning regardless of map size. My point is large maps afford more space to make that tougher to do, so generally, it should be less common on larger maps than smaller ones.
I get that Coal Tower is a smaller map, so your point is aligning the distance between gens. I guess there is no real consensus between map size/LoS blockers and alike, even the number of string main buildings isn't consistent to map size. It's more trends between realms I guess.
I suppose to my mind gens on the edge of the maps precursors adding appropriate tiles at those edges of the maps. If the gens are just in big dead zones the obviously there's a problem. This ties into the LoS argument. If you've got gens sat in the corners you need survivors to have LoS to know to head to their tiles, or you deny LoS, and killers can't see them either.
In either case, the mobile killers still come out on top. Moving gens out still doesn't square up the differences between lower tier and higher tier characters. Mobile characters will get more out of this change than less mobile killers will because they actually have the speed to be able to cut survivors off before they even get to the safety of their tiles, and can check those locations easier if they don't have LoS.
Like if it can be done, fair enough, but to my mind, I don't see how you push the gens out, without just making fast killers even better than they already are vs. slower killers.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614267#Comment_3614267
Finding the gens on outdoor maps is never an issue? You can see them from very far away usually... And you run around in the open because you usually do not care if the killer sees you, because experienced players mostly wanna get chased anyway...
I think it is better to use the outsideof the map more in the sense of having tiles there and the map also being somewhat equal to the effective map size, so there is not really deadzones around the edges or what not that serves no use but to make the map bigger.
No clue how they will form this in the end...
If the maps are smaller, but the gen spread wider, there is no 3 gen anymore, because the distance between them is too big... And certain killers don't need to 3 gen regardless because they can just end the game beforehand? I don't really see your point here... The distance the killer has to travel is still smaller than on current big maps if you just put the gens on coal tower further to the outskirts, the same with the tiles...So the reliance on map traversal would decrease overall...
Sorry dude, we have some big misunderstanding/miscommunication... so please explain it to me like I'm an idiot, because I'm not understanding you.
Low mobility killers don't like large maps, because they're hard to patrol. Larger maps are inherently harder to 3 gen, because they are bigger... so the space between gens is larger... but that by the same token, makes them harder to patrol, because you've got to commit more time to doing it.
Smaller maps exist, so that less mobile killers can still patrol. Smaller maps tend to have more clutter and LOS blockers and places for survivors to hide, and that's the trade off, however ofc naturally smaller maps also make 3 genning easier... If you push the gens out to the very corners and edges of the map, you're back to a large map set up. Yes you can't 3 gen anymore, but also patrolling is harder for a less mobile killer...
You keep saying that map traversal would decrease... but how can it if you're increasing distance between gens? I can't patrol the 4 corners of Coal Tower on Pig; I can barely patrol 2 before a gen pops. Lets take an asinine example of map as a proof by contradiction like this:
Though it is stupid, this is an absolutely impossible to 3-gen set up. However how the hell do you patrol this as a less mobile killer? I've solved 3 genning sure, but I've made it harder for less mobile killers to patrol.
Now even if you take a more reasoned approach, I still ahve the issue as these low mobile kilelrs it's not worth my time to patrol the gens on the outer edge. Something like this, I'd focus my attempts on the green square, and maybe 1 other gen, and just forfeit the rest:
What something like would do for my Pig, or my Trapper, or whoever, would be to find someone, down them, then camp the hell out of them. Force survivors to come through me to get pressure, which coincidently is what 3-genning should do as a strategy when not used to just hostage the game.
How do you push gens to edges, without making less mobile killers less effective? You haven't answered that.
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@Skillfulstone said:
Going by what was said in the AMA, it appears as if Killers will have their ability to kick gens nerfed or removed and/or that gens as a whole will have a regression cap, at least during the last gen.
Quite frankly it is a pretty bad solution since it basically punishes Killers that aren't 3-genning on purpose for the Survivors's mistakes.
What this solution means is that if the Killer can't get 2k before the last gen then the game is now unwinnable since between at least 3 Survivors and with no way to regress gens then it's just a matter of time.
This also means that gen-kick perks might as well be dead because they will now have a hard-limit beyond available gens.
This also massively hits setup Killers (Trapper, Hag etc.) That are built around area denial and not chases since they will now have a limit to their ability to slowdown. Poor Trapper got a buff then a big indirect nerf.
Indeed, that's why I have concerns in the first place. Though I think a lot of peple are looking at the 3-gen changes the same way a lot of people keep thinking the AFC is an Anti-Camping mechanism.... it isn't, it's there to deal with the most extreme cases, and 99.9% of the time won't come up.
I don't think it would be done if a gen is broken too many times within a certain time frame, as ofc a survivor could keep tapping on Hex: Ruin and activate the 3 -gen countermeasure. My instinct is too many instances of the same gen being kicked and/or instant regressed within a particular time scale would be the trigger, the intent being, instead of just kicking gens repeatedly, you should be committing to a chase at somepoint. I'd imagine it's goal is to target something like Chess Merchant level 3-genning to hold a game as long as possible, not 3-genning as a general strategy.
@Archol123 said:
It is still better to have smaller maps but wider gen spread, because it also makes the edges of the map more usable, which is generally speaking a good thing. Sure killers with good map traversal will still have a benefit, which is the whole point of that part of their kit, however it won't be that big anymore... Think about how little it time it takes to traverse coal tower compared to Ormond or what not... As for Nurse, she would still need to blink behind to wall to check on the gen every single time, which is still quite the time investment.
I think the idea is not to bad. However I would have liked it more if it was just reactivating an already done gen or whatever? I do think though that spreading gens further out is also kind of necessary, because this way the effective map size will get a bit bigger, while the total map size will get smaller, what I mean by that is the area where loopable tiles are will be bigger, but hiding in corners won't give you that much more of the map.
My above point ties into my response here. I'm not convinced the anti 3-gen announcement is meant to stop 3-genning. I think it's meant to stop people just holding a 3-gen and never trying to actually stop survivors.
With this in mind, moving the generators apart to the edges of the map doens't benefit the game... what sense does it make to explore the map as a survivor and potentially get caught by the killer, when you can just walk around the edges of the map like a crouching bambi Nea and guarantee finding 4 of the 7 gens? It sounds massively dumbed down and boring to me.
You say it's better to use the outside of the map more... but why is it? Players already use the outside of the map to run to and take the killer as far away from hooks and gens as they possibly can before going down. If the killer refuses to chase and insists on just holding the 3 gen, this is when the aforementioned break limit starts to come in.
Maybe its 10 breaks? Maybe it's 20? Who knows the right number? But that's what a PTB is for.
The point is that moving gens to the edge of the map, is not a good solution, and creates far more problems than it solves... the further widening the divide between immobile and mobile killers being the strongest one. Mobility is a very valuable tool in a kilelrs power, consistently one of the best in the game. I for one, am not willing to sacrifice half the killer roster based on mobility, to stop a few boring nerds from playing chess, especially when other options are available.
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm... a few good points.
Maybe just a condition that indicates "Entity Apathy" or something similar, that appears as a warning to the killer to desist their current action due to Entity boredom?
Ofc... I have been having snowball fights a lot lately... so I am not sure how that ties in 😅
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My immediate thought is that survivors closer to escape feel greater despair and fear than those who have succumbed to their fate as a result of being face camped on the hook... thus the entity rejects them in pursuit of a greater meal...
What the heck you'd call that in a score event/game effect though eludes me... something like:
- Sacrifice Rejection?
- Entity Hook Interference?
- Insufficient Sacrifice Fear?
Can't think of something catchy and meaningful... 🤔🤔🤔
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Yeah, I'm afraid I'm in the camp where basement should be feared and respected.
There have been several times as survivor where I've deliberately taken a loop that will result in me being much more likely to go down, based solely on the knowledge that basement is near, and if I get caught at the stronger loop, I'm going in basement. When playing Killer I don't camp basement, however I don't leave too fast either because the hesitation and uncertainty about if I will camp or not buys pressure.
That "Oh #########... he's hooked in basement" fear needs to remain in the game. It's one of those moments that genuinely gets me nervous, and it's something that should be there. It's one of the reasons why it's worth considering perks like Deliverance, Borrowed Time, Off The Record, Dead Hard, or even perks like Camaraderie. You may need multiple survivors to take protection hits to get out, and if you misplay it you can make the problem even worse.
It's not a death sentence being in basement, but it is a rough spot for survivors to be in. The only time it's ever truly a death sentence is if it's a basement Trapper... or ofc a Bubba, both of which aren't particuarly strong killers, where the threat of basement does help them out.
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@Boons123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612180#Comment_3612180
I like it best in sabo builds. Take a hit at hook, sabotage, then get hit again. That survivor is then guaranteed to escape. After that you only need one more protection hit, meaning you can guarantee the perk activates next time you pull this trick, and get away without even going down.
How do I take two hits without down?
You're pretty much gonna have to eat a down to get 2 stacks. You can also use Breakout as well to ensure your team gets the value, but getting 3 stacks without a down is very unlikely. You combine with OTR, you can get those 2 protection hits, then if your teammates gets hit coming to save you, you can use OTR to take a hit for them, and that them gives you your MoM.
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Oh, I didn't catch that there was a limit on people had received the transfer as well, am I missing it somewhere in your description? Read 3 times and I can't catch it... there is the safeguard that the person who used it can't get the hook state back though, as you have the healing condition, but the same unhooked player could be transferred a state by 3 players? Ofc 3 players with all those status' would be nuts, but it COULD be done... is that intended? ^^
However if you add the condition of the player receiving a ToS as well cannot be granted another state in combination with the conditions is pretty huge as downside...
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Did you mean 5/4/3 seconds? The status' are a hefty downside, kudos to that... it's actually a pretty nastypenalty to make it so someone only uses it for anti-tunnel... however you do basically condemn yourself to being the one to get tunneled and die instead. This feels like a variation of the perk that would teeter on useless or busted easily. 🤔
I rather liked the suggestion from @Seraphor in the below thread
@ratcoffee said:
Press active ability button within x meters of a survivor in struggle phase, then when you unhook the survivor they lose a hook tally and you gain one.
@Seraphor said:
This would be an incredible anti-tunnel perk. It would be a pretty strong perk though so would have to have suitable restrictions. For example, only once per game, and after you've used it to take a hookstate for someone, no one can then use it on you to take one from you. This would mean it could only be used a maximum of twice per game, Survivor A takes a hook off Survivor B, Survivor C takes a hook off Survivor D, that's it.
I like the notion of being a purely anti-tunnel perk, but you need VERY strong conditions for this perk, otherwise it becomes very abusable. My list would be: -
- Survivor has neither used or received a Transmigration of Souls.
- Can only be used on a struggling survivor.
- Can only be used when the user has 0 hook stages.
- Disables once gates are powered.
Though I might steal from your suggestion and add: -
- The user is permanently exhausted.
This is a sufficient number of limitations to make it a perk that is only usable vs. hard tunneling killer, and between Camradarie and Reassurance, could punish a tunneler/camper quite hard. The main difference between the 2 is, I could see myself using the second version, but the OP version sounds... a little too altruisitic to my tastes...
I am altruisitic, but broken, exhausted and hindered the rest of the trial? VS. a proven tunneler? Yikes...
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@Coffeecrashing said:
Nemesis infection coughs should alert nearby zombies, even if there’s no line of sight. That would make the zombies much more useful.
Never sat right with me the idea of zombies getting buffs heading towards infected survivors. Makes sense for gameplay... makes no sense for lore. This is actually quite a neat suggestion... though infection itself is still kinda meh.
If we can't have more than 2 zombies because of technical limitations, can we at least make these 2 zombies not completely suck? Maybe have them mutate to crimson heads or something the more they sense survivors to become faster and more dangerous over time (say 4 tiers that tier up every 5 seconds)?
Killing a zombie with a pallet/head stun will replace that zombie with a normal zombie, but this would actually mean that staying infected is actually bad, cause you're gonna be getting super zombies finding you more often, and moving faster to the point you have to find a way to stun or lose them via a locker.
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Personally I love the way everyone complains that the game is buggy, and breaks with every update, and always throws out the 'spaghetti code' insult like its nothing, and yet will also demand a feature be implemented quickly and get really mad about it not being at the front of the list.
People have been playing soloQ for years without this viewing loadouts feature... why all of a sudden is everyone so mad about it? It's not enough that BHVR confirm they are considering such a feature?
It's almost like BHVR have started listening to player feedback, and now suddenly everyone feels like they're owed something, and can make demands as they see fit.
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I'd say it's different, not necessarily worse or better.
I'd say its more consistent that BBQ, in that whoever you catch, you either get a scream or an aura read, regardless of distance, and the length of that aura read can expose a lot of what survivors are doing (help find the gen or gate survivors are committed to at end game for example)
However it's also more obvious that it is in play, so the obsession can know to hop in a locker and deny you the aura read, whereas BBQ is much harder to guess if you don't make it super obvious.
What I do like about FTTE is it makes a lot of the obsession perks far more viable, opening up many interesting perk combos that would have been bad before. I saw Bazazel play a Dredge with FTTE, Make Your Choice, Nemesis and Lethal Pursuer....
No slowdown whatsoever, and the map traversal instant downs were brutal 😳
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TLDR: Scampering needs to not drag my camera to be behind Chucky.
From a console player perspective, my observations are:
- The 3rd person camera helps in a number of ways. As well as scouting, it makes Chucky harder to 360, as you can't really FOV tech him. Even if you miss on Chucky, you are never completely bamboozled, so this is nice.
- Between his height at loops and hidey ho being able to hide his red light, he has a lot of strength in mind games, and can catch out even experienced players by mixing up his approaches and being smart with his predications.
- The Slice and Dice is very decently strong, cancelling his charge up to bait, creates strong mind gaming power to make survivors leave (where you can complete the charge up and try to score a hit) or make them stay and forcing them to face your mind game strength.
- Scamper however is very punishing to use, and almost the worst choice in every single scenario. The turn angle is what it is, but the real issue is that on console you can't flick or adjust your aim rapidly, so typically you want to pre-aim where you want to go, and move with the left analogue stick to line it up and trigger. This works well enough for Slice and Dice, but Scamper drags your camera to face the direction of the window or pallet you are scampering, and then switches back. This means you can't carry on looking at the survivor while you scamper, which combined with the time it takes to complete the scamper and the difficulty of turning on console, you almost always miss your mark and end up in no mans land, with no hope of landing a hit for any pallet or window that doesn't end in a narrow corridor.
PC players will of course lament the loss of advanced flicks, but from a console players perspective, his scamper's main issue is dragging the camera off of where I'm looking. For most killers this is fine, because I have to be looking at the window anyway to use it... but for Chucky it is just unnecessaily disorientating. Imagine if the survivor camera dragged itself behind you every time you took and pallet or window vault? It'd be horrible.
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Been playing him myself, yeah, it is really tough on controller. On PC it requires a flick of the mouse, on controller you'd have to turn your sense up really high to have a chance, and even then its a crap shoot.
The 90 degree lock on your turn angle is dependent on where you were facing when you started the charge, so you can scamper at an angle then come out at that angle when you pop the other side, that might help.
However from my play thus far you're usually better using the hidey ho and charge as a bait to fake one side, then use it the other.
Typically the threat on the scamper combined with your small height is good enough to mind game on Chucky, but we're always gonna have trouble on console with this power
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It's one of those annoying problems, where a small section of people create this problem where the rest of us need to be restricted.
The ability to Kobe is something BHVR want to be in the game, and its importance is that there should always be a chance of escape, so that survivors keep trying, otherwise we don't have a game. Killing yourself on hook is also useful for giving hatch... so attempting self unhooks is a basic function available in the game, and placing limitations on it is clunky and awkward.
This solution would be a brute force method of putting a dent in the problem, but it is doing it by completely removing basic functionality from the player... while it would be effective, it's something that doesn't really make sense with our understanding of the game, and whatever timings you set, there is always the risk of an outlier where someone needs to kobe, but can't try. If you try to prevent that you risk the effect being too short to be effective for its intended purpose.
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@[Deleted User] said:
As survivor: autodidact...because I love when my SWF mates rage when I am healing them and they found out I brought it again.
As killer:hangmans trick. Because it is completely useless. I like to equip it on blight with no other perks to baffle players in the endgame. I pair it with black ward and no add ons so they think im crazy
This actually made me laugh xD
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@GeneralV said:
That one proposal that would make the maps darker and with a ton of fog sounds awesome.
I did go for this too... I want the Spoopy.
Though the other game modes certainly interest me too.
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A gothic year sounds awesome...
Wednesday Addams would be amazing... I'm not sure if she'd be a killer or a survivor who gives disinterested screams xD
Beetlejuice would also be great... I can't truly justify it, but the idea tickles me xD
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@BlightedDolphin said:
I feel like Haddie is quite common now, at least more than Ripley and Elodie in my experience.
Straight up I'd use Ripley more if I could have long haired warrant officer Ripley with her back in action out of uniform shirt and weyland stompers.
Plz BHVR... unlock Ripley head pieces in the equip menu :(
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@[Deleted User] said:
its not an anti-camp, its anti-facecamp. That means the killer is standing in front of your face, if you end up in the basement and the killer is upstairs they are not in your face. - The basement is ment to be a dangerous place, stay a way from it :)
Can confirm.
White shards tell me the basement is a dangerous place.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609857#Comment_3609857
I played with a Steve earlier who was running Autodidact and Empathetic Connection. It was actually quite smart, everyone was absolutely coming to him and he wound up with super fast heals.
At least that is one person who achieved the dream xD
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I keep trying to use Empathetic Connection with Autodidact with hopes of getting a "Come to me my child" build going...
So far it's been maybe 1 game out of 30 games where it has actually done something and my team has figured out to come to me for heals... the rest of the time I finish the game sat on 2 stacks 😭
Edit: more often than not it leads to rage when said teammates can see my aura working on a 90% complete generator in the middle of a 3 gen, and decides to bring the killer straight to me.... it's like I know you can see me man!!!! 🤬
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I go out on my terms damnit!
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3609368#Comment_3609368
MMR will do that. It creates a dynamic where, you have to sweat because you think your opponent might. And the game is so snowbally that if you don't sweat from the start, you will lose against sweat. The result is that everyone sweats all the time.
If they removed MMR completely, you'd see much more chill matches more often.
Hah! Snowbally.