TragicSolitude
TragicSolitude
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@Witas said:
I think he worded it poorly, he didn't mean frustration literally, he meant frustration more as tension and what comes with it, the spiteness, the "arghh" (as he called it). It's a part of every competetive game, but I do agree that in dbd especially it fits great, it's just unfortunate that quite often the frustration doesn't come from the other players directly (as it should), but from the game itself, nowadays more than ever with dedicated servers being the way they are.
@kazoie1 said:
Honestly i believe its him just wording it poorly. i believe he meant like the give and take of winning an loosing, i.e. like for example the "frustration" of missing a hit because the survivor juked it properly, or for the opposite side loosing a mindgame against a killer because they legit tricked you. things like that that are give and take in the matches depending on how well you are playing.
I think you're right.
In games, there's "positive frustration," which is good and encourages players to improve. It's created by challenging gameplay that's still rewarding enough to make players feel like their efforts are worthwhile.
However, players are complaining that DbD creates negative frustration that is a result of poor game design. Stuff outside of the player's influence, like the crazy amount of bugs, creates negative frustration. If a game is too easy, it's boring, but the same goes if it's too challenging. If players feel like the odds against them are insurmountable, they get bored and angry. That's negative frustration, not positive.
When I'm put up against survivors way above my skill level, it feels like nothing I do matters. I feel bored with it and I go afk for the rest of the match. I don't feel the "arghh," there's no desire to beat them, I just feel listless; I can't care enough to continue. Who wants to play a game where it feels like their involvement has no effect on the outcome?
Being unable to hit survivors in a chase because of the ridiculous frame drops is another great one. I dread Bloodlust due to the effect it has on the game's frames. Or every time a grab fails. Or, playing survivor, I have watched killers swing and their weapon goes through the other survivor but has no effect. I've seen it happen multiple times, both players were standing still, and the weapon just passed harmlessly through the survivor's body. What the hell is that?
Cote for some reason interpreted players' frustrations with this game as the positive kind, and it comes across as out-of-touch with the playerbase when so many players are on the boards saying the game is negatively frustrating due to poor game design and a crapton of bugs.
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@BadMrFrosty said:
Well, not necessarily a killer main, but I play a decent chunk of killer and I can probably guess why I still do it:
- Sunk cost fallacy.
- Ridiculous levels of cartoon-like stupidity.
- Sunk cost fallacy.
^ This. The time and money I've already put into it are what keep me from leaving DbD entirely. If I play for any length of time, I play whichever role has the shorter queue times, which right now is killer. However, these days I rarely play anything more than a single killer and single survivor match per day to get the daily XP bonuses. I had been playing a lot of killer, but I just got tired of it, going up against survivors way higher ranked than me, and it felt like I was doing the game a favor by continuing to play killer. I decided I don't want to help with survivor queue times.
If I do have a spurt of playing killer, I'm mostly just mucking around, not playing seriously. I can't play seriously and not feel miserable. Playing stupid is how I make the game fun. That's how I'm able to play killer.
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The game has a design problem at its core. The devs say the first three gens are supposed to pop quickly, then the game slows down as the killer only has four gens to patrol. There are a couple problems with this, though.
One, it's demoralizing for the killer, because it just feels like the survivors are breezing through their objective. The killer either gives up (I've seen this plenty), going afk, or they feel stressed; neither of these states is conducive to a sense of "fun." It's not like the game at any point teaches killers the finer points of gen pressure, so the average player who isn't hanging out on these forums is not going to see three gens popping early on as anything other than a match-losing failure on their part.
Two, it's only easier for the killer to patrol the last four gens if those four gens are near each other. If the survivors pay attention, then the final generators are across the map from each other.
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Christ, it was already too slow on console, and they made it worse?
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I don't see why this would upset anyone. Battlefront 2 is giving out double XP due to the pandemic. A lot of people are staying at home right now, giving them down time during which they can do stuff like play video games. It makes sense for companies to want to encourage players to choose their games over competitors' games. And hell, it also makes sense to encourage people to stay in and play video games right now. You don't want people to get so bored they leave their homes.
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I love moris. Much more fun to die to a mori than the lame hook. I get upset when the killer downs me in a grassy area and doesn't move me to a better spot. The one time a Gunslinger had a mori, I barely got to see the animation of my character dying. Total bull.
The only one in your list I agree with is Iri Head Huntress. That one's pretty ridiculous. Otherwise, in games against killers with one-hit downs or using stuff that makes survivors Exposed, I still usually feel like my teammates are the bigger threat to my survival.
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That's hilarious. I wanna do that, now.
How the hell is that griefing? My Totem Protector Bubba seemed waaaay griefier than that, and I dunno if anyone ever reported me for it but I definitely never got banned for it.
Seriously, if that's actually bannable I'd like a dev to state why and to explain what kind of memeing is and isn't allowed, because there's nothing in the rules to tell us.
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Just had a match where the survivors kept breaking my hooks, so I slugged all but the last one to death.
If survivors don't want to bleed out on the ground, why do they break hooks?
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It made me appreciate the other games more, for how much more fun they are.
My skill in DbD has actually been steadily decreasing as I become lazier about playing. I worry it'll carry over and hurt my skill in other games, too.
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I know what you mean. Hooking seems to benefit survivors more than it does me, 'cause they get to run up and get the quick save after I've spent all that time picking up and carrying someone to a hook. Naw, it makes for a more fast-paced match to put someone on the ground and immediately move on to another survivor. It puts more pressure on them to slug. Rather than me wasting my time getting them to a hook so they can get a two-second save (or Deliverance off) and possibly have 60 seconds of immunity to work on a gen or make a save in my face, survivors have to waste their time with recovering.
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Plus teammates who run to the corner of the map to heal (I'm not following you), plus teammates who don't recover while they're downed (I'm not healing you), plus teammates who play for the hatch.
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Solo survivor isn't fun, but it already wasn't fun before the changes.
The killer being able to close the hatch is one of the most necessary mechanics they've added to the game. Having a match last forever when it's down to one survivor was complete BS.
The toolbox changes were overkill. They're useless now. It drives me nuts when this game bounces from one extreme to another. The same thing happened with Mettle of Man and Legion's Feral Frenzy ability. And when they nerfed Nurse's ability instead of just testing out nerfing her add-ons, first.
That's my two cents. Solo survivor is mostly miserable, not because of the changes, but because teammates are random and often suck, or they're a three-man SWF who don't return your altruism. Killers will absolutely take advantage of the solo survivor whose teammates farm off the hook, meaning that in many of my matches once I get hooked once I might as well suicide because I'm never getting five steps from that hook again. I had a match against a Ghostface yesterday who didn't tunnel off the hook and actually made sure to "spread the love." We all died in the end, but I still had fun because at least I got to play.
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Yes.
No discussion points to add, just "yes."
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Yup, had a game today where I was just half-assing it, didn't really wanna put in the effort. I never hooked anyone, opened an exit gate for them and then went to guard the other gate. Standing at that other exit, I hooked three different survivors, two of whom died. -_- I didn't have NOED or any other end-game perks, they just... threw themselves at me.
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I had this one match against a Hag. Gates were open, everyone was still alive, Jake was on a hook and everyone else was healthy. Me and another survivor go off to rescue Jake while Claudette stays behind at the exit gate. We rescue him, we each take protection hits for him, Claudette stands at the gate watching us... and then she runs out once we get close. Jake goes down and gets mori'd.
Why even stick around like that if you're not going to help? What the hell? That one annoyed the crap outta me.
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I pulled some toolboxes out of chests today... I know toolboxes were too powerful and needed to be nerfed, but oh my god they are useless now.
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Just don't hook anyone. Slug them until they bleed out. DS averted.
It's really not worth going through the bother of hooking survivors. Too much time wasted walking to hooks, possibly having to deal with sabo. I miss the BBQ points, but if you don't really need BP, then it doesn't matter.
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Spirit's hair looks terrible for me, too. I'm on PS4 Pro.
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@[Deleted User] said:
When they said mori's I wonder if they meant alternate mori animations....I would love that.
That's what I'm hoping for. Killers like Trapper and Wraith really need some new animations.
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I chose "cosmetic customizations for Killer powers," "Basement customizations," and "Moris."
By "Moris," it better mean new Mori animations and not Mori offerings. I don't want Mori offerings.
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First thing I do when I get Temple or Purgation is choose three generators to lock down. The three-gen strategy is pretty much required on Temple of Purgation; trying to patrol the entire map is usually a guaranteed loss.
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Right now, 50/50. I play one survivor match and one killer match per day.
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Play as Clown. Chase the survivors and pelt them with bottles, trying for direct hits. If you have Beast of Prey and Distressing on him, use those for the BP boost.
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You know when players stop complaining?
When they stop playing.
I've barely been posting on the boards recently because I've all but completely stopped playing DbD. One fewer killer means the survivor queues in my area are that much worse. So really, killers complaining is a good thing, because it means they're still playing, and given how long survivor queues are, you don't want even more quitting the game.
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My killer queues get faster and faster, my survivor queues get longer and longer. I rarely have fun no matter which role I play. When the survivors burned a Lery's offering and a Petrified Oak offering, one DC'd the second time I slugged them. So yeah, decreasing the number of hooks on the new Lery's and all future maps, great idea. -_- The changes to sabo will only make it better, I'm sure.
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@gatsby said:
Or you know... just don’t slug 4head
So... I just shouldn't down survivors at all? Is that what you're saying? Thanks to dedicated servers, when I down someone they often teleport a few meters away on the ground. Because of the silent slugs bug, I have completely lost survivors between the time it takes to down them and the end of the successful-hit animation.
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I really, really hate that it's capped at 1 million. In this game, 1 million Bloodpoints is practically nothing.
If I remember correctly, Bloodpoints were capped because of the prevalence of Bloodpoint cheats. I'm not sure that's even still an issue, and it's definitely not a problem on console.
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I won't be spending money to get the DLC. I may buy it with Shards. Maybe. I can't imagine I'll actually enjoy playing as this killer, though. He doesn't look fun. His whole thing just seems like a gimmick that's not really very helpful and yet it cost him that very important 10% movement speed. His gun is going to be hell to aim on console, especially since it requires precision. I fully expect that it will take me dozens of hours of practice to get to the point where I average landing one harpoon shot per match.
The majority of my matches have mismatched ranks, and now that I'm getting a majority of greens and purples (and sometimes reds) even during daytime hours, I just play super relaxed and, well, lazy. It's unfortunate that their toolboxes and BNPs (which they are using like every match right now) mean the game goes so quickly I get very few Bloodpoints, but eh, whatever. (I've been trying to farm but they only wanna run around in circles in front of me; the moment I hit them they all scatter and Clown is way too outta shape to be trying to chase survivors down. Have you heard that cough?) Anyway, yeah, a new gimmicky killer with a power that gets screwed over by dedicated servers is not going to make these matches better.
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Using her ability hurts your emblem score. I used Plague as an M1 killer, never vomiting on anyone, to get her Adept Achievement.
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It won't really change how I play. If someone destroys a hook, then I just don't hook anyone during that match. It doesn't really matter to me, it's up to them whether they want to get the altruism points for hook saves or the boldness points for hook breaking.
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@KStarW05 said:
What isn't fun about winning most of your games with ease and not being afraid of the guy trying to kill you? It's relaxing.
The only thing that sucks is just how often I see Mori's in my games. So I guess I don't have anything to complain about survivor wise.
Sounds like the devs should just implement some simple killer AI and be done with it; that would make everyone happier.
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Been happening to me intermittently all day. And it happened again just now.
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@BloodyNights said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109311#Comment_1109311
It can be different for different people. If you have the I give up attitude because you are not having fun. You probably won't get better, you also don't usually get better after facing something once. You need to do it several times. The getting better quickly usually comes from having a competitive drive. For example your motivation for not losing as killer to these red ranks, is so you don't get bullied and teabagged every single match. You'll get better at chases even if you lose the games, you'll develop better pressure without realizing it because you start to understand what they are thinking etc. It doesn't mean you'll automatically go from a 5 to a 10 after those ten matches. But it could mean you go from a 5 to a 8 in a much shorter amount of time than normal.
You can still improve and get better while playing games at your skill level. It's just usually a slower process.
Well, after enough matches of not having fun and not seeing any improvement, yeah, I'll stop playing. I mean, I played an FPS while being the absolute worst for a long time, but even though I was terrible it was fun and I was able to see slow, gradual improvement. Every match was a mix of skill levels, so I wasn't just getting stomped by much better players constantly.
Although, I don't think I really have a competitive drive. Especially not in DbD. I play to have fun, whether that means just memeing around or actually bothering to hook survivors as killer or whatever seems fun at the time. But whether I'm playing to screw around or to win, in order to interact with the players improvement is required. And I've seen improvement since I started, but lately when matchmaking keeps putting me up against survivors of a much higher skill level, I just feel lost. There's a lot going on in DbD, so when you're worse at everything vs the competition... you just kinda get stuck and flounder.
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@BloodyNights said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1109234#Comment_1109234
Actually a very fast way to level up your game is to constantly play people who are better than you. Obviously you need to have a grasp of the game mechanics. But let's say you played ten games in something at difficulty level 5, it can go up to to 10 in difficulty. Your skill level is at 5. You'll play and do fine, but your personal skill level won't really increase. You play 10 games at level 10 difficulty. You may lose every single game, but you go back to level 5 difficulty and it's suddenly a cake walk.
My description may have been a little weird, but it always works for me. But I come from a lot of fighting games in my background. I like fighting people who are better than me because I improve much much faster than playing against people who are at, or above my skill level.
As for your suggestions.
As for DS, I'd only nerf it so that it becomes disabled if you are not slugged, and someone else got hooked.
Flashlights to me personally suck, I never bring them as survivor. You almost never get a flashlight save, and all the good killers have headphones on so even if you blind them at a pallet they just follow you anyways.
I wouldn't nerf Borrowed Time, but I would change it from Terror radius based, to killer proximity based. Don't camp the hook, and if you just gotta camp the hook, take down the survivor who decided to do the unhooking right in your face.
As for increasing gen times, I'd be all for different killers having different gen speeds, going from 80 seconds to a maximum of 90 seconds. So Billy would be an 80 second gen killer. Demogorgon could be 85 seconds, and someone like Clown could be 90 seconds. But that's just a thought. I don't agree with a universal increase, as that would just make strong killers even stronger.
I dunno, maybe it's different for other people, but I don't get better when I go up against survivors who are extremely above my skill level. I can't catch them and I can't figure out how to catch them. I just get bored and I quit playing. When I go up against survivors around my skill level, I can get gradually a little better over time. When I go up against survivors who are way better, I see no improvement.
It's pretty much the same if I go up against killers who are extremely better; the only difference is I die too quickly to learn anything.
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The challenges can be done at any time, forever. They never go away, they never stop unlocking the lore. The only thing that goes away is their reward of Rift Fragments after the current Rift closes. The challenges do not need to be completed to finish the Rift, and you can get to the end of the Tome Level without doing any of the DLC killer-specific challenges.
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@Heartbound said:
I have trust issues because you never know if that friendly killer is going to turn on you for an end game challenge.
I'm still traumatized. I can't believe a killer would kill someone. :(
I know you're being ironic, but I will say, I don't mind when a killer is friendly and then kills me during the EGC. I appreciate that they let me get points, and if they wanna kill me, I'm cool with that.
And yeah, @Dehitay, I noticed that, too. I actually pointed at the screen and was like, "That's not true, otherwise looping wouldn't be such a thing!"
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I actually occasionally see a survivor bring in a green key with no add-ons... I always wonder if they do that to try to screw with the killer's head or if they just think it's funny or what.
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@[Deleted User] said:
For me, it's the sentiment that counts. Not the actual kill.
^ This. I appreciate the sentiment when I have a bad game, but I really don't need the kill.
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@Ivaldi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084437#Comment_1084437
Why are Killers able to see the survivors and their addons in Lobbies, but Survivors cant see what killer they're facing?
Because then when they're facing a Doc, everyone survivor would equip Calm Spirit, nullifying a large part of Doc's power. Stuff like that. A lot of killers' powers can be almost if not completely countered with a perk. Meanwhile, a survivor is just a skin; they could be running any perk. The killer can see what items survivors bring in, but they don't know if that's a brown toolbox or a green toolbox, and they certainly don't know what add-ons are attached to those items.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084739#Comment_1084739
IF, and I think that is a big if, they actually did that I wouldn't want to play against them, but I don't think most would actually do that. I mean as a survivor main I hate playing against Ghostface, but I don't just quit and sit in a corner and let him kill me. I still try. I think most killers would still try even in that situation. Maybe I'm wrong.
I see a lot of survivors suicide when they don't like the killer or the map. I've actually had multiple matches where a survivor threw down random pallets and then followed me like a lost puppy until I hooked them so they could suicide.
Not all killers would just refuse to play--some might take in a mori, instead--but I know players who just afk when they get a map they don't like. Or a group of survivors pops three gens before they've finished their first chase, so they just break off and go stand at a door.
With matchmaking as bad as it is right now, I see a lot of killers who aren't really trying. They sort of give up mid-match. And that's with being able to choose their lobby. If they're forced to play with a group of survivors they'd have rather dodged, I can't imagine they would bother at all; they would just afk so they can move on to a match they actually want to play until they just stop playing killer at all and switch to survivor or another game completely.
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@mmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084706#Comment_1084706
I wholeheartedly agree with you on that. If they could make some fixes with wait times and balancing maybe lobby dodging wouldn't be such a problem. But for those of us that have long waits between matches lobby dodging may mean you wait an hour for a single match.
Do you really want the killer who dodged you to instead be forced to play a match with you? Because all they'll do is go afk somewhere on the map while you play gen repair sim. You won't interact with the killer, you'll waste offerings on a match where you get no altruism and little to no boldness, you may de-pip, and within a few minutes you'll be right back in the lobby waiting. You can't force the killer to participate in a match.
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I still think adding in the husk system first would've been better. Adding in the husk system would take away some survivors' reasons for disconnecting in the first place. With the penalties, we're just punishing them after the fact. Penalties may lessen the number of times it happens, but they won't help when disconnecting does still occur.
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@ClickyClicky said:
Anyone defending lobby dodging really shows their true colours.
Survivors get iri heads, NOED and an ebony and a toxic killer and its “suck it up” you can’t leave.
Killer sees a few cosmetics they dont like the look of and its ok to lobby dodge.
So basically killers get to select what they go against but survivors don’t.
If I don't like the match when I play survivor, I can just suicide. Woohoo, I'm outta there!
If I don't like the match as killer, I can't just leave; I'm stuck there until the match is finished. So, I go wait at the exit gate or something. Then all four survivors are stuck playing a gen repair sim. Not that afk'ing changes my matches that much; I usually just run around and throw bottles at survivors, so it's a gen repair sim with coughing.
As a survivor, I keep going up against rank 20 killers who get annihilated by rank 16 solo survivors. I feel bad for those killers. They shouldn't be going up against players with experience. They get no choice in terms of the ranks they go up against; I damn well don't want to take away their ability to choose their lobby.
And as a survivor, I still have some choice. I see a lobby with three Claudettes, I'm leaving and looking for a new lobby. Tired of getting tunneled out quickly because I'm the only survivor the killer can actually see.
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@Babyyy_Boyy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1082538#Comment_1082538
I would rather wait 10 minutes to get into a lobby that I know I could stay in and not get dodged rather than waiting 10 minutes just to get dodged for no apparent reason. The thing is, is that even if killers get penalized for 30 seconds, to a minute and so forth, They’ll find a match instantly. What if i don’t want to switch to killer because I’ve played killer all day? What if I want to play some survivor matches. And you’re here saying “just switch to killer and no more waiting”? I’m not trying to sound like a toxic survivor main because I’m not. But why should I have to wait more when the killer dodges for nothing? If you’re going to bring stuff up such as gen speed, looping, SWF and map design, there are moris and perks to help the killer like NOED which I would rather go against then having to wait.
Are you on Xbox? Because on PC, PS4, and Switch there are dedicated servers. Dedicated servers mean that once the survivor is in the lobby, the only way for the survivor to leave that lobby is for the survivor to choose to leave. Killers can come and go, but because the killer is no longer the host, the killer dodging the lobby doesn't cause the lobby to reset.
If you're on Xbox, then you don't need penalties because whenever dedicated servers do go live they will fix this issue for you. If you're not on Xbox, then I'm confused because the wait time to get into a lobby may be long but once you're in one you seem to get priority: a killer dodges, a new killer quickly takes his place.
I don't know why you're bringing up all that stuff about perks and what not. None of that is pertinent in any way to this conversation. Something that actually is pertinent is the matchmaking disparity. Killers are already being put up against survivor who are way out of their league; they have no control over that whatsoever. They can at least choose the lobby, though, so a rank 16 killer may be destined to go against a group of purple/red rank survivors, but at least they can choose not to go against the group of purple/red rank survivors with four toolboxes and the word "toxic" in their names. Low rank killers are having a miserable time, it's amazing they're still playing at all. Penalize them for dodging a lobby? They'll either stop playing killer, making lobby times longer, or they'll switch to playing survivor, which would be even worse for lobby times.
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Somewhere under E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial for ATARI but above Fortnite.
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... so, because there don't seem to be enough killers to satisfy the number of survivors looking for a match, your solution is to make the number of killers even smaller by penalizing a killer for lobby dodging? Decreasing the number of killers would increase your wait time.
If you find yourself waiting for long amounts of time in the survivor queue, switch to killer. If it takes forever to get a match as survivor, it's probably nearly instant to get one as killer. No more waiting, problem solved.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1081901#Comment_1081901
You were slugging him. Why? Because you wanted a 4k. Simple, no?
So... I should've had a staring contest with him while he stood there gesturing at me? Woo, that also sounds like fun exciting gameplay.
I usually let everyone go because I don't care about the 4k. That match went to hell because David let his teammates bleed out. I slugged them to slow the game down, but I didn't want them to die. Then my option is to stand around while two survivors repair a crapload of gens or end the match and move on.
Sometimes this game is boring no matter what you do.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1081874#Comment_1081874
Slugging for the 4k is the killer's choice, you're not forced to do it.
Slugging for the 4k usually refers to the killer slugging the third survivor and then going off to find the fourth or using the slug as bait. This wasn't that scenario. This was the third was on the hook and the fourth was right there, gesturing me to come get him because he wanted to DS me. So then it was the third on the hook and the fourth on the ground while I waited out DS. And he didn't even crawl around looking for the hatch, he just spun at my feet.
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Once the last gen has been done or the EGC has started or only two survivors are left, I mean in any of those situations DS becomes ridiculous. The killer's options are very limited, but hey, let's stun him for five seconds for bothering to try. Or hey, let's stab the killer when he's attempting to stop someone from unhooking another survivor in his face. Let's jump in a locker so the killer can't even slug for added pressure: either the survivor stays injured in the locker, or the survivor gets off the killer's shoulder injured. Crazily, the better option is to actually eat the DS so they can't use it later.
I don't get hit with DS very often. I play survivor, I've been tunneled out, being tunneled out early in the match sucks, so I know that DS serves a necessary purpose. Once you reach the end of the match, though, the killer can either tunnel or they can go stand in a corner while the remaining survivors escape, because there's not enough time to play musical hooks without getting DS'd at some point. That's the irony of DS: nice killers who don't tunnel early in the match get punished by it later when it's way stronger.
I remember a match once with a cocky David... it was down to him and a Quentin. Quentin saves him off the hook, I down and hook Quentin, and then I go after David because there is nothing else to do. David continues to act cocky, gesturing at me, and I down him. And then, because I'm not an idiot, I get to watch him spin around at my feet for 60 seconds before I can hook him. Woo, exciting gameplay. Is that really what a killer should have to do? Watch the last survivor spin around at their feet? And if the killer is inexperienced (or forgetful), they'd have picked up the David and gone from one hooked survivor and one downed survivor to two survivors back on their feet running around. How is that fair on the killer? How is being on the ground for 60 seconds fun for the survivor? What kind of gameplay is that??