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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/498361#Comment_498361
Doesn't matter because my hatch close overrides their use hatch. If I'm standing on the hatch just before it opens, survivor can't use it. Doesn't matter if they know where it is and are standing there waiting with me.
@Condorloco_26 "Well if you played perfectly until that point, why should the survivor still be highly able to beat you? He failed all his previous "tests", so?"
First, they aren't "highly able to beat me" it's 50/50 and I have control over whether or not the situation even happens in the first place. Second, if both players play perfectly killer still wins in this situation, because all things considered it's just impossible for the survivor no matter how well they play EGC. Their only chance is that I make a mistake, and mechanics that rely on a player making a mistake in order for the other side to have a fair opportunity are fundamentally broken. See old DS.
"Doesn't matter because my hatch close overrides their use hatch. If I'm standing on the hatch just before it opens, survivor can't use it. Doesn't matter if they know where it is and are standing there waiting with me."
Hasn't it been said that it's not supposed to?
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/498350#Comment_498350
I agree that can be a solution, however it favors certain killers over others and may potentially break some maps due to their shape. I guess since we are getting a map rework this might not be a problem in the future but as I see it survivors should have an equal chance to take the hatch. If killer knows where the hatch is, it's just impossible to use. I will just hook the third guy and rush to the hatch, and even slow killers could do this by hooking as close as they can to hatch and rushing over to it.
What about situations where the Survivor knows where the Hatch is, though?
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/498307#Comment_498307
Because their chance to take hatch goes from 0 to 50/50. This assumes that the hatch(es) have spawned and players are aware of their position. If it's a situation where no gens were done then it would be the same as before as only the real hatch would spawn anyway.
Is their chance to take the Hatch normally 0, though?
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I'm confused as to how this gives Survivors a better chance when both Killer and Survivor have the same opportunity to find the wrong Hatch first just as how they have the same opportunity to find the right Hatch first.
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I don't like horror movies and especially slasher movies. The only movie I've seen that a licensed Killer is from is Halloween. I main Pig because I love fighting for the dream of Reverse Bear Trap kills.
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@Almo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/497883#Comment_497883
I'd be scared if I were still running Windows XP as well.
I can't get the game to run on my Commodore 64. Where can I submit a ticket?
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Video proof, please.
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@Asssthetic said:
@TAG They didn't but I feel like they should've waited to get all the licenses before releasing a "chapter" that deals with a franchise as popular as this one. Sydney is literally one of the most iconic final girls and its really disappointing to hear that she won't be added to the game
Why prohibit themselves from using something they got the licensing rights just for a chance at maybe getting the rights to other stuff?
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@Asssthetic said:
No Sydney? Are you actually kidding me? She's been in the same amount of movies as literally the killer. If they couldn't get Neve Campbell's likeness, why couldn't they just give Sydney the Laurie treatment and make their own Sydney. I'm actually annoyed by this
They possibly did not get the rights to Sydney at all.
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@not_Queen said:
@Bbbrian2013 This chapter comes with a Killer only. Which means no new map and no new survivor. However, we will reveal more exciting stuff during the Year 3 anniversary livestream.
Too bad, it would have been funny to have the cashier as a Survivor and Home Depot as the map.
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Is Two-Box Pig "Amanda's Letter"?
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I've never even seen a Saw movie, nor do I plan to, so this wouldn't do anything to satisfy me as a Pig main.
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New marketing strategy: Try after you buy.
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@Horror_Gaming said:
Huntress lullaby does effect the boxes btw
From what I have heard, it actually does not.
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...yes. If.
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"My issue with it is that there is no counter."
The Legion breaks out of Feral Frenzy and gets stunned if they miss an attack in that state.
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@Mochan said:
What does Pig's Letter do again? (I don't have Pig)
Pig can see Survivor auras within 12 meters while crouching. In exchange, she starts the game with 3 less RBTs in her inventory (she will start with 1 normally and 2 if paired with Last Will) and 2 less Jigsaw Boxes on the map (there will be 2 on the map normally and 3 if paired with either Jigsaw's Annotated Plan or Jigsaw's Sketch).
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I just watched this for the first time today. GUESS I'M WATCHING IT AGAIN.
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@bubbascal said:
Am I the only one who almost always has extremely bad luck when it comes to RBTs?
Every since I started playing Jane, I tend to die to bear traps frequently whenever they are placed on me. It's insane on how badly things go for me. Either the boxes are so spread out that I die attempting to run to them, Pig tunnels me in such a way that my timer still goes down even when she's clearly chasing me resulting in my demise, or something else. Something almost ALWAYS goes wrong, and it results in my demise.
To be fair, I've also gotten Skill Checks at extremely bad times and been tunneled + camped by killers. (Killers can't leave me and my fat behind alone apparently. 😥)
The RBTs can actually be very effective if Pig applies the smallest amount of pressure on Survivors trying to use boxes.
Either that, or again just super bad luck as Jane.
Are the other Survivors actually taking advantage of the fact that the Pig is focusing down the person with the trap on?
Traps usually lose a lot of their effectiveness if the Pig is just tunneling the trapped Survivor.
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It is useful in Lehry's and Game, but that's about it. It's kinda like playing Mirror Myers, only without the detection immunity but still able to move at 115%.
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My idea:
1) In the lobby, only show Survivor usernames at first. Survivor characters are not revealed at this time.
2)Then, once all the players have filled the lobby, bring up a prompt that shows all players' pings (Killer's username is not revealed) and a asks if everyone is okay with starting the countdown timer. Anyone who says no is kicked out with no penalty, and the remaining players keep waiting until everyone says yes.
3) From there, when everyone says yes, THEN all the Survivors are shown as normal, and players configure their loadouts according while the timer counts down. From here, anyone who leaves will be treated as having DC'd.
This is just the gist of it. The idea is that people can leave safely if they see too high pings and stuff, but they can't keep lobbydodging when they see loadouts they don't like.
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@thrawn3054 said:
@TAG F13 had a Spring Break clothing pack. Chad's outfit was a speedo with three color options. I always had him wear the tiger print version.
Sorry, I should have been more specific. What I meant was "Can we have Speedo Chad?"
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Speedo Chad?
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May 31st, the forums will be in flames from all the rioting caused by the Freddy changes.
And I shall be the lone voice of reason through the madness. And my soft words of truth shall be heard through it all...
"Buff Pig..."
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@Vlieger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490777#Comment_490777
I don't think it is a stretch to say a team of players who all have bad stats will lose the game over a team of players who have all good stats. So do theirs stats/skills determine the outcome of a match? Yes they do.
They're not asking whether a team with bad stats is likely to lose the game versus a team with good stats. They're asking if the game tallies up the players' stats to determine which side won.
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@TKTK said:
Based on all these tier list i think pig is very underrated
So i retract my statement gen rush defeats any pressure her traps had cause they can leave with the traps on there heads
To be fair, a Survivor can only leave with Traps on their head if the Trap was put on after the Exit Gates were powered. If the Trap is actually active (maybe because they had one already on when the last Gen popped), then they cannot. That being said, I do think that gen rushing as fast as you can to neutralize as many of her Traps as possible is an issue for the Killer who's supposed to be able to slow the game down.
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Personally, I'd move Hag up one, Plague down one, and Doctor down two. I think Pig straddles the line between C and D in your list. The others are just ones I don't think I can comment much on.
@johnmwarner said:
I’d swap Pig with clown and plague, all M1 but she has a delay tactic at least.
My problem is that her traps are super inconsistent. Sometimes they are actually good at stalling, sometimes they do very little. The problem is that Pig has little to no control over which one ends up actually being the case.
@Ksoni said:
What rbt nerfs recieved?
Reverse Bear Trap timers only start whenever a Generator is finished (they no longer auto-start . In addition, inactive Reverse Bear Traps no longer prevent a player from walking through the Exit Gates. This effectively means that any unused Reverse Bear Traps that she still has on-hand when the Exit Gates are powered become non-functional.
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How?
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Doesn't Stridor make it so you can still hear a Survivor with Iron Will to some extent, or am I mistaken?
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These are just my personal opinions:
1) Sure, I'm for it.
2) Don't think it's necessary, but I wouldn't say no. She'd still be pretty slow, still.
3) If I'm being honest, I don't think "Because she doesn't play fair in the movies" is a good reason for changes to the Pig. Being faithful to source material is great, but she's a character in a video game first and a character from the Saw franchise second. As far as giving her an extra trap, I don't hate the idea persay? Not sure if it's the most necessary thing in the world, though.
4) I feel like this is a different discussion, as the perk isn't really much of an indication of the Pig's viability (unless you're trying to get the Adept Pig achievement, I guess).
5) Agree 100%.
Rules Set No. 2 base kit - Thumbs up from me.
Amanda's Letter changes - Yep, this looks pretty good to me.
Very Rare/Ultra Rare add-on giving 2 extra traps - Ehhhhhh. I wouldn't even think this is a worthwhile add-on normally, but with the Pig's nerf in 2.7.0, I think this has a very real chance of going to waste.
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Can we at least remove the penalty once the Exit Gates are powered? Usually not a good idea to leave the hooked Survivor during that point.
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@pemberley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/491564#Comment_491564
The thing is the last 3 killers including Spirit have power bars
And Spirit is the only one that’s actually decent.
Legion is controversial and Plague is plagued with weaknesses and drawbacks where literally no one plays her and it’s like Legion is considered more the new killer rather than Plague (who never even got a skin collection to celebrate her arrival.)
This is a "correlation does not imply causation" sort of deal. Plague and Legion having power bars does not necessarily indicate that power bars are the source of any problems they may have.
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/490172#Comment_490172
What would be the certain killers? Obviously Leatherface cuz some addons doesn't work right? Maybe Nurse reworking multiple blinks?
I still think Pig needs one. She has a lot of really bad ones IMO.
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@Stubbsyefc1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/488766#Comment_488766
This person had the trap on half off the game, I would not waste my time asking if the pig traps were changed were the end game and pig traps didnt work together and i did close the hatch, I was lucky that i found the hatch randomly.
I mean, without a clear visual of the incident in question, we're kinda just guessing.
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@Stubbsyefc1 said:
Do you think i would make this post asking for the pig traps work so i can see if that person cheated or not?, Just saying
I mean, we had another thread where someone was confident that they increased the Skill Check Zone size for Overcharge until someone else posted pics showing that the sizes between the two were the same. Having visuals can help determine if what you are alleging is actually the case or if you simply missed something.
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@Stubbsyefc1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/488706#Comment_488706
Do i really have to record all my games now to "Show Proof"?
Video proof lets us see what actually may have happened as opposed to just your interpretation of it.
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@MysticAdvisor said:
Also for the fear of the obsession chasing you around you ARE faster than the obsession and they may receive a surprise if they do
What surprise are they expected to receive? Getting hit once? Yes, you are faster than Survivors, but what do you do when you activate Overdrive and all the Survivors just huddle around the Obsession? You lose a solid 2 minutes of interacting with anyone unless you're using an Ultra Rare (and if you're using the one that extends Overdrive, that time of inactivity goes up).
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So the Killer power is NOED+, but the Killer also basically has no power if someone brings in DS/MoM, since activating it means the Obsession can start grinding up against you and leaving you literally unable to attack for a solid three minutes (two minutes of Overcharge + one minute of cooldown).
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@Mat_Sella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/487000#Comment_487000
you say that, but i literally was at the hatch first. The survivor arrived just as the hatch opened, and i was unable to close it. as i moved away to shut the hatch, i received no prompt to close it. So i am unsure what you are trying to say.
Is it possible that it may have simply been some sort of bug? Did you receive a prompt when you first arrived at the Hatch?
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@BigBubs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/273792#Comment_273792
The survivor could have DS active, or was slugged and had flip-flop.
So it's not impossible to wiggle off, which is why this idea should not be a thing.
Idk, it is potentially possible that either one of those things might actually save you, but I would imagine that the odds of them actually being impactful in such a situation are about as high as the odds of Deliverance being impactful in the hypothetical scenario where the devs let the last Survivor remaining use it upon being hooked for the first time (which is to say, not very).
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I know I personally have no problem with the Enduring change.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Other than not giving them the bonus movement as well as making it easier to hear them while going back on patrol. As well as infecting anyone that unhooks them too.
Could there be add-ons that make it more vicious? Sure. But nothing base-kit.
The problem, from what I seem to understand, is that the game's meta is at a point where (good) Survivors would rather just power through gens instead of wasting time healing. And because of that, being in a position where they can't heal doesn't really matter if they don't want to heal in the first place. Granted, if there are random teammates who can't afford to give up healing, being contagious could be a problem for the state of the overall team. But if you have a full team of Survivors who are comfortable playing without the need to heal, Vile Purge does very little to them.
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@Atrushan88 said:
I'm not gonna argue about this with you anymore, I disagree with you, you disagree with me, there are people who agree or disagree with both of us, but I will say this per your argument that you can use that exact sentence to claim that I am "denying the antecedent".
"If she WERE Brazilian, then she would know that Brazil's official language is Portuguese. She ISN'T Brazilian; she's from London. So, she surely doesn't know this about Brazil's language."
"If it WAS her intended playstyle, then it wouldn't be something they would take away. They DID take it away, so it wasn't intended."
Notice the difference? If you don't, I capitalized it. There are two very different things in those sentences. In one, one thing is saying that if she WAS Brazilian, she'd know that Brazil's official language is Portugueuse. But she ISN'T, so she surely doesn't. But let's apply their sentence to a more parallel view of my sentence.
"If she WERE Brazilian, then she would know that Brazil's official language is Portuguese. She IS Brazilian. So, she surely does know this about Brazil's language."
I don't think you understand how logical fallacies work. Which does not surprise me, considering that you tried to dismiss the phrase "logical fallacy" because "I can't be logical and illogical at the same time."
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@Atrushan88 said:
@TAG
- I don't know much about Legion, aside from the fact that his intended playstyle is to hit one target, then follow the aura to other survivors, but I doubt their INTENT was for Legion to purposefully miss attacks. That's just silly. In addition, if this changed Legion's playstyle, this change was INTENDED, that's why it's called a REWORK. His kit isn't SUPPOSED to be the same.
- Suggesting it to me won't do anything, and if they don't change it, then again, it wasn't their intent.
- It is not a fallacy, it's pretty obvious in fact. They didn't REWORK the pig, so they didn't change the way her kit was intended to work. In addition, do you even understand what you're talking about? A LOGICAL FALLACY. That's an oxymoron. I can't be illogical and logical at the same time.
- If you asked me how them removing it due to the EGC proves it, I'd tell you what I've already told you. Her power explicitly states that generators need to be completed for a RBT to become activated. If I told you a microwave would only power up if I flipped a switch, and I didn't flip the switch, would the microwave power up? No. If the microwave powered up when I hit a different switch than the one I stated, and I didn't mind because that switch wasn't that important anyways, and then later changed something that would make that switch MORE important, I would fix the problem with the microwave powering up when I flipped the switch that wasn't intended. This is exactly what they did. It was excess fat getting in the way of their EGC.
Either way, let's just agree to disagree because you're just gonna keep attacking me until I agree with you, and I'm not going to agree with you that they INTENDED for the pig to place RBTs on people's heads after the gates were powered when they clearly didn't.
I didn't ever say that her RBTs were intended to kill. In fact I've been saying that her power has been intended to stall the game, not wait until the end of the game. TAG is the one saying that her power was intended to be used at the end of the game.
1) It absolutely was intended for Legion to be able to recover from repeatedly missing attacks because the reduced attack cooldown only applied to misses, and there's no other reason why it would have been like that. And your second point does not change the fact that the gameplay decision was originally intended but then purposefully changed. Same as the Pig.
2) Like I said before, you're just deliberately ignoring any holes in your logic.
3) The part I quoted from you is exactly that logical fallacy. I can use your logic to fill in the underlined parts in the same manner as the example given for that particular logical fallacy.
"If she were Brazilian, then she would know that Brazil's official language is Portuguese. She isn't Brazilian; she's from London. So, she surely doesn't know this about Brazil's language."
"If ___________, then ___________. ________________. So ______________."
"If it was her intended playstyle, then it wouldn't be something they'd take away. They DID take it away. So it wasn't intended."
Also, are you actually disputing the phrase "Logical Fallacy"? You know I didn't make up this phrase, right?
4) "This is exactly what they did."
You have not definitively proven this; you are making a guess based on faulty assumptions.
"It was excess fat getting in the way of their EGC."
You haven't proven that it was excess fat. Only that it needed to be changed. It needing to be changed is not proof that it wasn't originally intended. See: Legion.
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@SlinkyJinky said:
4th Survivor evades you all match, plays well, does a couple of gens and rescues everyone at least once.
3 other Survivors are sacrificed and you catch that 4th Survivor. As it is you didn't earn an instant sacrifice but you get one because you cant handle that last Survivor holding out till the of the whole sacrifice to earn their 800 bp from struggling.
No, Killers get enough free hand-holding as it is.
Killing the last Survivor instead of hooking them is hand-holding?
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Pig, easily.
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@wydyadoit said:
i'd like to put my 2 cents in if that's okay with everyone.
pig's playstyle has changed. - the intended playstyle from her perks and descriptions indicate that she's intended to be a single hook/single generator camper. She punishes altruistic survivors - the ones getting you off the hook.
hangman's trick - reactivates broken hooks after 30/20/10 seconds. - including ones that you've just used to sacrifice with.
make your choice - puts an exposed status effect on a rescuer. allows pig to get double downs if she is far enough away. that range is roughly the size of her terror radius. 32 meters.
surveillance - any regressing generator will be white until touched. at that point it turns yellow. this perk lets you know which generators are under assault. if you go stealth mode you can camp the generator until it's touched.
combining these 3 perks with her ability to remove her terror radius and crouch and her ability to put rbt's on survivors and you have a camper. simple as that.
you regress a generator, wait for it to turn yellow, hit the survivor, do it again, and again, until you get a knock down, put the trap on their head, hang them up, attack the person that saves them, put a trap on their head, rinse and repeat until all players have traps on their heads, down the players that are trying to remove the traps, once all players have traps on their heads place all of them on the same hook.
it's pretty simple. this is the intended playstyle.
the unintentional playstyle is holding onto your rbt's until the gates are powered and then hitting everyone with NOED as they try to open the gates and beartrapping them. this was removed. this entire playstyle of "well if i can't get them before they activate all the generators then i'll get them with the bear traps as they open the door" doesn't work in the new mode.
this can be seen by simply looking at her add-ons also. the game is meant to be played long before the gates ever get powered.
i'm okay with that because her kit is still effective without the cheese of NOED/gate watching. her add-ons do not aid her towards this gameplay style at all. in fact they discourage it.
Perks aren't really meant to be a good indication of a character's playstyle, given how all characters can use all perks from their side (once they are properly unlocked). Otherwise, you could say that Huntress's playstyle would revolve around chasing Survivors for long periods of time, hooking people in the basement, and screwing up Skill Checks.
Even with that aside, the playstyle you described is an EXTREMELY inefficient playstyle. If you're waiting for Surveillance to alert you to a Survivor, you're letting all the other gens to be done. If you're waiting for Make Your Choice to go off, you're still letting the other gens be finished while not even guaranteeing that you'll make use of Make Your Choice. You're also somehow assuming that you'll be able to get Traps on everyone's heads before anyone can even get them off. How exactly do you pull that off while the people who do have Traps on their heads can just get them off by searching boxes? Do you go after them to keep the Traps on? Then you're just not putting traps on the other people, thereby screwing up your stalling potential.
Also, how do her add-ons dissuade an end-game playstyle? She has add-ons that increase the number of boxes, add-ons that increase the amount of time it takes to search through a box, and add-ons that try to screw up a Survivor's skill checks so they have to also spend longer searching through the boxes (even though these are bad add-ons). All of those are intended to make it take longer to get the traps off and just walk through an Exit Gate (at least, they did before Patch 2.7.0). As far as I can tell, the only add-ons that could be considered arguably dissuading a late-endgame playstyle were Rules Set No. 2 (because it was worthless once RBT timers were able to automatically start) and Amanda's Letter (because it got rid of most of your Traps/Boxes).
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@gantes said:
They have already explained it on stream why the times doesn't change with RBTs being worn. If you didn't watch it it's your problem.
I'm actually happier each day with the changes. As I get better at the game, I despise more and more playstyles that reward unskilled players.
They only explained why they didn't slow down the EGC timer; their reasoning does not actually apply to the idea of the EGC timer being paused.
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@Atrushan88 said:
- If they removed it because of the EGC, that means it wasn't intended. If it WAS intended, they'd have kept it regardless of the EGC, because it was their intended playstyle for the Pig.
- If it's paused completely, yeah, it'd be balanced, maybe you should suggest that if you want to keep it that way.
- No, I'm not. If it was her intended playstyle, it wouldn't be something they'd take away. It was a side effect, nothing more. The fact that they DID take it away, means it was excess fat that needed to be trimmed, therefore the evidence DOES side with me. I am drawing my conclusions based on evidence in her power's description. Generators need to be powered for the Pig's trap to activate, that's how it was intended, or else they wouldn't have put it there and traps would have activated the moment they were placed. They set a condition, that condition was generators being completed.
1) Wasn't the Legion's intended playstyle of attacking recklessly in Feral Frenzy removed when they completely removed the considerably reduced cooldown on attack misses and instead chose to completely knock the Legion out of Feral Frenzy when they missed?
2) I've been suggesting that in many places on the forum. I'm pretty sure I've suggested it to YOU specifically in at least one other thread. https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/481207#Comment_481207
3) "If it was her intended playstyle, it wouldn't be something they'd take away. It was a side effect, nothing more. The fact that they DID take it away, means it was excess fat that needed to be trimmed, therefore the evidence DOES side with me."
^
This here is flat-out a logical fallacy: https://www.iep.utm.edu/fallacy/#DenyingtheAntecedent
If I ask you how the fact that they took it away in response to the Endgame Collapse proves that it wasn't intended, what is your response going to be?
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@Atrushan88 said:
@TAG You're complaining about them removing that EXACT playstyle, so how can I be wrong about it? They didn't intend for it, it's pretty obvious by both the SPECIFIC CONDITION SPECIFIED IN HER POWER and the fact that they REMOVED IT. It wasn't an issue before, so they didn't care if it happened, it IS an issue now, so they removed it. It's pretty simple from a balance standpoint. Also, again, if this WAS allowed, it still wouldn't matter because people would kill themselves on the hook because it's a GUARANTEED kill, there's no way you're gonna have enough time to travel the map searching through 5 boxes(7 possibly) AND get through the gate after it opens in 2-3 minutes. People would kill themselves on the hook if they were smart so the pig wouldn't get more than the one kill they got. From a developer point of view, it's pretty obvious it wasn't intended, if they INTENTIONALLY put "When a generator is completed, the trap becomes active". But if you want to go through the idea that I cannot say they didn't intend for it as a potential playstyle simply because they didn't go out and say it, then you can't say that it WAS intended as a playstyle. Either way, the evidence sides with me. If the power states that it needs a generator for an RBT to become active, that means as the pig, the intended playstyle is that you're supposed to put RBTs on people's heads before generators are completed. If a dev tells me wrong then sure, but I'm 99.9999% sure that I'm right.
1) You do understand that the Endgame Collapse was not a thing when they first designed the pig, so saying that them removing the playstyle due to the Endgame Collapse is not evidence towards the notion that the playstyle was not intended, correct?
2) Pause the EGC timer while a Trap is being worn. Problem solved.
3) "Either way, the evidence sides with me." It legitimately does not. You are drawing your own conclusion based solely on your assumptions and dismissing the holes in your logic because it doesn't suit your conclusion.
( 4) 4 boxes (6 possible). If you're going to be so adamant about your stance, make sure you understand your facts.)