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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1086878#Comment_1086878
I've said this a thousand times. Camping is not a strategy. A strategy is a plan you put together in order to win. It takes an opponents strengths and weaknesses into consideration and anticipates counter strategies. For example, using a heavy run package in football vs a team that is weak vs run. Camping 100% depends on the stupidity or lack of skill of your opponent in order to win. No strategy is a plan that hopes for your opponent to be stupid.
Camping is an activity that could fall within an strategy at times. It is a useful tool in some situations, and I would disagree with punishing it due to that. For instance, if the gens are done, door is open and you have a hooked survivor, why would you leave that hook? It is almost a guarantee they get away if you do. AS it is, BT or BS might foil you already.
Camping from the start of the game, not a strategy. It is a toxic activity, nothing more. Strategies are plans focused on winning the objective, not plans that fully depend on the inability of survivors to do what they are fully capable of.
By this definition, Insidious Bubba Basement Camping is a strategy because it is a formulated plan to win by taking advantage of your ability to stealth in the basement and preying on Survivors' blind altruism while at the same time taking into account the possibility of SWF comms or Kindred. ;)
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@PigMainClaudette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1089462#Comment_1089462
To be fair though, there is ONE perk that applies Blindness, and that is also a Hex.
I did specify that Face Mask will not affect the box auras for that specific reason.
Not that anyone plays Third Seal anyway.
My bad, for some reason, my mind glossed over what you meant by "Outside Face Mask."
In that case, I don't like the the idea of "This has Blindness" and "This has Blindness, but it doesn't work on Jigsaw Boxes because we say so." Especially when it's the perk that works with the Boxes and the Pig add-on that doesn't.
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@PigMainClaudette said:
Don't make RSN2 base.
Roar at the start of the dash.
Faster crouch walk, similar or in line with Ghostface.
Make Blindness outside of the Face Mask add-on affect boxes, so that Third Seal would be a useful tech with Pig.
I don't agree with making Blindness shut off box auras. There will definitely be maps where that is a death sentence with the right add-ons.
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@Jholla31 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1087823#Comment_1087823
You mean like killers getting the "you killed the survivors too fast so we're disappointed and you don't get a pip harumph!" penalty? lol
Yes, like that.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1087823#Comment_1087823
I understand his reasoning.
Killers are currently penalised for achieving their objective too fast.
I also thing that is stupid.
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That seems like a bad band-aid solution. "You better not do gens too fast or else we'll be very disappointed in you harumph!"
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@LoverOfDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1087379#Comment_1087379
Traps are less for killing and just a slowdown tool to get them off gens, you don't want to sneak all the time with pig but by experience you find a nice middle ground of sneaking and regular movement to attain about the same affect, pig many times can be even stronger than gf or wraith because of her traps along with the injury slowdown or slugging you can insue.
The problem with Traps is that they are very inconsistent at stalling. The middle ground still means she has to slow down compared to Ghostface, who doesn't, and Wraith, who speeds up (though he does slow down when uncloaking, though he also attacks faster out of uncloak).
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@Oicimau said:
Is there a reverse skill check now in the game? Almost 2 years playing and never saw that...
Its a new reworked Doctors addon?
Doc add-ons that inflicted Exhaustion to Survivors with madness were changed to reversing the direction of Skill Checks.
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Pig + Legion would be gross.
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Personally, I think tactics that can be used on Wraith or Ghostface don't really work on Pig because her stealthing is the slowest and clunkiest of them all IMO. Example: I find that the hit and run Thana strategy that Wraith and Ghostface can use doesn't work nearly as well on Pig because she slows down substantially when she stealths up, so any benefit Thana might have is offset by the extra time it takes for Pig to cover distance while sneaking. All she has to make up for her weaker stealthing is a situational Ambush and inconsistent Traps.
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@nicnc82 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1087311#Comment_1087311
Then its ridiculous that a killer can take one survivor out of the game after just one hook. In order to use a key, certain requirements still have to be met depending on how many survivors are left. If all 4 survivors are left, it takes all gens to be popped. Like Pug said, killers are going to whine and cry over everything until survivors have nothing.
I mean, it is ridiculous that a Killer can take a Survivor out of the game after one hook. Nerf Keys and Moris.
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Did anyone else correctly predict that this would be a thread about being salty over DC penalties?
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@KornySon10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1086995#Comment_1086995
If you don't have the map knowledge to get an idea where the survivors will be at the start of the game (usually right on top of the blocked generators), you can run whispers to guarantee you will get value out of it.
Plenty of survivors will attempt to wait it out, or do totems and chests, and if that is the case, it has already done it's job (assuming you are chasing someone by that point).
It opens up alot of 3 gen strategies, which I think is the best option on alot of the low mobility killers these days. If you can hook someone next to your 3 gen? You don't need to move to any other place on the map for the rest of the game.
It's not a matter of map knowledge because I can usually find a Survivor. It just does not do much.
From my experience, almost no one waits it out. They just go to gens that are open and start working on them.
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@KornySon10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1086958#Comment_1086958
I think it's the best killer perk in the game. Nothing else stops the survivors from spawning directly on top of your generators and starting to work on them ASAP. On many maps it can take them a minute to even find a gen, and that's already more value than old ruin used to provide half the time.
Depending on where you spawn, it can lock down a 3 gen for the lategame as well.
I feel naked when I play killer without it, unless im on someone super high mobility like freddy or billy; where I think ruin + surveillance is better option.
I think it's really niche and not very good. I don't see much difference with or without it unless I'm playing very specific Killers. From my experience, Survivors will just move to another area of the map where they know it's super unlikely there will be a locked gen. It just slightly increases the time it takes to start working on gens. That's it.
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@The_Horde said:
Good points, peeps. I'll use it until I unlock better aura reading perks. I'm struggling to find survivors unless they are purposefully trying to distract me so I'll take any perk that gives me an edge.
Should I use whispers over bitter murmur? (I main doc when I play killer.)
For Doc? Absolutely. I would argue that among all the Kiler, Doctor is currently the one who makes the best use of Whispers (only Tier 3, though).
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Disagree. From my experience, it usually doesn't change much, as you are still trying to chase someone while multiple Survivors are doing gens. Then you down the Survivor, hook them, and you've used up most of Corrupt. It doesn't even slow down the game by much; it mostly just changes which gens have progression on them at the start.
I think the Killers that can actually make work of it are the ones who need some time to set up. Mainly Trapper, Hag, Demogorgon, and maybe Freddy a tad.
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If the numbers were higher, maybe. As is, it seems like not enough impact to be worth it.
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@Sylorknag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1086830#Comment_1086830
But they were literally holding the game hostage... Well, I smell your bias miles way, no point in argueing.
Were you actually trying to find them and you could not, or were you just idling hoping that they would eventually do something? I know the first one is holding the game hostage; the second one to me seems more like those cases where Survivors won't leave the Gate or jump into a Hatch until the Killer tries to go after them.
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There was a substantial amount of complaining about Ruin, so I'm not so sure about that.
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@DonniKubbitz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083488#Comment_1083488
"UNSPORTSMANLIKE:....Purposely losing the game, not participating in or disconnecting from the game to avoid defeat. Examples: AFKing, rage quitting, idling, and refusing to participate in normal gameplay."
Alright, AFK is on there.
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@yandere777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084705#Comment_1084705
And in those case, you won't be returning back to the game in one to two minutes. Which means the dc penalties will not effect you in the slightest. Leaving with the intention of hopping into another match will net you an obvious penalty. Leaving with the intention of doing irl stuff will net you a penalty but it will be gone by the time you hop back on.
I'm not disagreeing with this. The only thing I am disagreeing with is the one person who disagreed that those aforementioned scenarios are reasonable scenarios to DC in.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084605#Comment_1084605
In that case itll only be 1 minute
I should make it clear that I am not against the system as it currently is. I am merely disagreeing with one specific person who disagreed that hostage holding and bugs that prevent the game from being played/finished are legit reasons to DC.
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@yandere777 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084674#Comment_1084674
Those cases sure dc, but in all my time playing dbd i have yet to witness one of those edge cases for myself. So I'll have to stick with the other guy. that one in a billion chance happening sucks sure go ahead and dc, wait the minute and play again. If it happens every game then your luck is honestly that horrible and I'd go play the lottery cause you got a better chance in that then a gamebreaking bug.
I've had that happen to me. A game would not end because of a gamebreaking bug that prevented me from picking up the last Survivor (EGC wasn't doing anything to end the game either). I'm pretty sure that player wasn't even in the game anymore; I think my client just desynced from everyone else.
I'm not saying the game shouldn't have a penalty system because of these edge cases. I'm merely saying that there are more legitimate reasons to DC than just an IRL situation needing your attention.
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That would mean that players who are stuck should stay stuck indefinitely. Which is silly.
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@I_Face_Camp said:
Shouldn't DC at all unless you have something irl to deal with and then you wouldnt even care about the penalty
Bugs that prevent the game from being played/finished and hostage holding are also legitimate reasons to DC.
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@Boludosattendant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084514#Comment_1084514
and devs gonna work?? omg stop itr bruh, gonna kill me LMFAO hahhah
I mean, just going "nuh uh" doesn't really say much to me. Recordable offenses and nonrecordable offenses that can't actually be proven are pretty black and white to me.
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@Boludosattendant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084479#Comment_1084479
think dat devs gonna do something HAHAHA i cant bruh, just cant hahah
Sure. I mean, unlike guessing that someone is using wallhacks, AFK is something that can actually be proven.
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Not really. It's rather easy to record the evidence needed if the person is guilty of such.
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@Boludosattendant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084394#Comment_1084394
the same thing on killers reporting about afk people
Not really. You can record evidence of AFK. :P
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@Boludosattendant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083465#Comment_1083465
devs gonna do nothing, a lot of killers with wallhack (no perks, rank 20 and knows were are everyone of all survivors) and nobody did nothing in years... you want a pusnish on AFK people?? hahaha so naive
We call this "baseless accusations." :P
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1084372#Comment_1084372
IDV has a system in which gen progress becomes faster the longer the match progresses. It's not impossible nor unheard of.
That doesn't involve the ability to travel through the multiverse, so I am not interested.
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@johnmwarner said:
So had a killer game today against red rank survivors. Before it started I thought the lobby would take longer so I grabbed coffee, come back and realize the game starts and two gens were already done. Well I went on to 4K so that must mean gen speed is fine.
And BEFORE I hear that it’s only one game, there is a thread gaining momentum from ONE game Tru had during his 20+ steaming that day.
@Carpemortum said:
Well, I had a game where I rushed nonstop and ended chases in under 45 seconds and they all escaped. Gens are too fast.
Before anyone says its ONE GAME, this thread is using ONE GAME.
See how that sounds?
You're both right. The solution should be to both simultaneously speed up and slow down gens.
How does one accomplish this? Well, let me introduce you to a little something called parallel universes... /s
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@nicnc82 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083976#Comment_1083976
Well theyve said they will NOT do that. So people should get over it. You got what you wanted, dc penalties. They cannot and should not force anyone to stay in a game they dont want. Before I played killer a lot, my husband used to do my dailies and pip my killer down to red rank. When I started playing more killer, I didnt want to be that rank. So I went afk as wraith in the basement and let survivors do gens and get out. That's not bannable and actually probably never will be.
Should not? Disagree.
Cannot? I think you are wrong. :P
Also, intentionally deranking IS a bannable offense.
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@InsideOut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083619#Comment_1083619
Can't force me to hammer keyboard non stop, or maybe I want to die so other survivor can get trap door. Again man this is too hard for them to police effectively. Just accept people are going to hook die on purpose.
And if they get to the point of punishing that, then its time to play a different game, because who wants to be dictated how hard you have to play.
End result the penalties will reduce the active players , which is never a good thing.
People play games to have fun, and when the fun stops people move on. Being penalized for every little thing gets to be tiring. And eventually not worth the hassle.
They wouldn't force you to do it. They would just punish you for excessively suiciding on hook. That is something they very realistically can do.
@nicnc82 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083465#Comment_1083465
When the dc penalties were being tested on the ptb, people already mentioned would there be a punishment for suiciding on first hook. Peanits said there would NOT be and never would be. Because they cannot tell why someone did that and would be too hard to implement. So get over it that you cannot force anyone to stay in a game they dont want. I wont and if a killer is camping and tunneling I will suicide first hook if I'm with randoms so I can go on to find a game I enjoy. And since I don't care much about my rank or being banned in the game, if my teammate finds the hatch and the killer has me slugged, I will still leave the game and take the ban. 🤷♀️
Nah. Should not be difficult to detect who's been dying on first hook repeatedly because they didn't bother to struggle. Combo that with reports of players dying on purpose (which IS listed under Unsportsmanlike Conduct), and you've got a pretty easy way to nail 'em.
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@InsideOut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083539#Comment_1083539
BUt Hook escapes are a thing, and maybe I don't like mashing a key for a couple minutes.
Problem is they CAN waste all the resource to look for this and that, or they could spend the effort and resources fixing the underlying issue that causes people to DC.
"maybe I don't like mashing a key for a couple minutes"
If you repeatedly let yourself die on hook for this reason, then this is something that should be punished. At that point, you are absolutely killing yourself on purpose.
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@katerbater said:
There are plenty of reasons why DCing is legitimate and shouldn't be penalized. Sorry I shouldn't be penalized for someone ruining the fun of the game.
Unless a bug, hostage holder, or outside-the-game factor is preventing you from playing or finishing the game, you should be penalized for DCing.
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@InsideOut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083526#Comment_1083526
But with Hook Escapes being part of the game, it'll be hard to say whos trying to escape the hook and who is trying to escape the game. And struggle mishaps happen all the time. My buddy sucks at them.
The ones who repeatedly attempt hook escapes and then die right after they fail and enter Hook Stage 2 are prime candidates for being reprimanded for dying on purpose.
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@InsideOut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083465#Comment_1083465
Again, you cannot force people to play to a certain level of expected play. How do you tell the difference between people who are bad a juking and someone throwing?
The answer is YOU CANT.
Once people lose any drive in the round, it'll be find the easiest way out. And since it is super easy to disguise throwing like unskilled play, it will be tough to do anything about it.
Or you know , you just meme around, people already do it, and that was before the penalties.
The free will in the game means, if I don't want to do a gen then I dont, if I want to see how many times I can run around the outside of the map before I'm found and killed, I have that option as well. If I want to chainsaw sprint around the map, trying for the longest sprint, I can.
They could bother to write code to check these things, or they can fix the REASONS WHY PEOPLE WANT TO DC.
The time for band-aids is over its time to do the surgery and fix the issue.
I don't think they care about Survivors who are pretending to play badly because it is indistinguishable from playing badly. At that point, it doesn't matter because they are playing the game anyways. The issue is likely directed towards Survivors who just forcibly die on hook. And not even hook suiciding once. But doing it repeatedly.
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@Mert_MK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1083465#Comment_1083465
Going AFK maybe (despite still seeing a good amount of deranking Wraith players this way). Suiciding on hook however, doubt that.
I know for a fact that killing yourself on purpose is listed on there. AFK I'm less certain on, but I'm pretty sure.
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@Mert_MK said:
Nothing will be fixed.
Survivors will kill themselves on hook instead or go afk, same with Killers.
Both sides are gonna try their hardest to make the match unfun for the other side. While penalties were active, my friend got slugged and teabagged by a Pig until he bleed out, killer even admit he did that because he's aware he can't dc without a penalty now.
And when i played Killer i had a SWF last second switch to toolboxes and bring a Strode Key.
Should have looked into why people DC in the first place and fix the ######### game. This is going to kill the game.
I'm pretty sure that both killing yourself on purpose and going AFK are listed as reportable offenses in the reporting section. So I'd think twice about doing it repeatedly if I were in your position.
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Boom, game set. Mori spamming is bannable.
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Also, why does getting kicked result in a substantially larger stun than having a wooden pallet slammed on top of you?
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I know Myers has a few weapons not tied to a costume set.
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Me the Killer. Me the Survivor is really bad at chases.
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Deliverance?
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Everything here is my opinion:
"Reverse bear traps now have a ratio based chance -10%, depending on how many jigsaw boxes are left in the match to check. at 4 boxes this would be a 25% -10 = 15% chance to get off. at 3 this would be 23% and at two it would be a 40% chance. at the last box all chance modifiers are removed and it is 100%
This is to ensure that the trap now has a low chance of being taken off first try, rather then a random shot between 4 boxes.
(Numbers might need an effective rework to make for honest low chance randomness rather then a high chance of only being able to remove on the 4th box)"
A 40% chance to have to search all four boxes is pretty high when you consider that you are also making Rules Set No. 2 base kit. For comparison, if you just make the first box auto-fail and no RSN2 base kit, you are guaranteeing that they spend at least 30 seconds off gens with only a 33% chance of making them search all four boxes instead of 40%.
"Garunteed 4 skillchecks (before modifiers and randomchance via skillcheck chance) appearing like doctor madness snap out of it check, having no greats and regressing 25% of the bar. stopping searching of a jigsaw box does not revert progress but slowly decreases overtime. (as the survivor "forgets" how they've searched it)"
Guaranteed 4 skill checks I am indifferent toward, no Great Skill Checks on boxes is a nice QoL for Pig, increasing the penalty of failed Skill Checks to 25% seems unnecessary considering most Survivors will have no problem hitting them, and having Box progress slowly decay instead of reset upon prematurely stopping the search doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
"If you are the last living survivor before end game collapse begins, and you have an active trap, it will deactivate. This is to give a chance during pre-endgame scenarios where the pig has closed the hatch."
As long as this is only when the gens are not finished, this is fine. Once the gens are finished and the gate is opened, I'd say the last Survivor should be SOL if they've got an active Trap. Or, really, they should just revert the EGC nerf and pause the EGC timer. But as long as we're stuck like this, I'd say anyone who has an active timer by the time the gens are done should deal with it.
"Jigsaw boxes are no longer visible until the trap activates"
This + the changes you've proposed to RBT odds seem like they could cause problems. My preferred solution would be to just make first box auto-fail, but as far as this, I would say drop the percentage changes to RBT removal and just have RSN2 base kit.
"Workshop grease = makes skillchecks appear in random portions of the screen similar to the doctor"
I guess? I don't particularly care for it, but I guess I don't hate it.
"Shattered syringe = crouch speed increased to 110% speed."
I think you reduced the charge time on the Ambush, so that + this seems ridiculous. Even if you didn't, this still seems super strong.
"Johns medical file = allows the pig to open the exit gates and activate the end game collapse at all times. This also activates traps. Traps activated this way (and not through gens) have no penalty to box searches (both through addons and the -10% chance stated before. making them a 25% a 33% and a 50% chance depending on how many boxes are left. this also ignores extra boxes so if 5 using addons that add jigsaw boxes, the chance is still 100% at 2 boxes."
Please don't. The griefing potential is through the roof with this, and no good came come of it IMO. And that's assuming this is not a common. At common, forget it.
"Combat straps = The pigs roar occurs at the end of her ambush charge (or 20% further through the charge)"
I think this should be base kit, personally.
"Video tape = any traps placed during the end game collapse will activate, but will have a 100% chance to be removed upon the first jigsaw search."
I'm not really sure what this accomplishes considering that you still have to camp a Survivor on a Hook with this to make sure they don't get to that first box. Just undo the EGC nerf and pause the EGC timer while someone's wearing a Trap. I don't see the need to get cute with it.
"Utility blades = applies mangled uppon dash attack/whilst a reverse bear trap is worn"
I don't really like mangled add-ons because Sloppy Butcher exists, but if you had to do this, I'd make it a common.
"Razor wires = Adds a fifth garunteed skillcheck"
This seems pretty useless to me. Even with the other add-ons that screw around with Skill Checks, I can't see this one making any sort of difference.
"Face mask = Survivors caught in a reverse bear trap suffer from repeated skillchecks when trying to interact with non-jigsaw boxes. these skillchecks do not have greats attached and are erratic in nature. (This is to make it far harder to do things such as gens or healing someone else, whilst having a bear trap on)"
I could be wrong, but I don't THINK this is very good? I can't imagine good Survivors struggling with this at all.
"Slow release toxin = survivors wearing a reverse bear trap are broken upon being unhooked for 60s."
This add-on has two problems for me:
1) It encourages you hardcore tunneling the Survivor with the Trap so the add-on doesn't go to waste, which defeats the purpose of the Reverse Bear Trap as a stalling tool
2) A Survivor who can't heal means they can't waste additional time healing. You want them to waste that time instead of powering through boxes right away.
"Rusty attachements = Survivors wearing a reverse bear trap become oblivious whilst searching jigsaw boxes."
I honestly don't know if this is fair or not. I'm not saying it's NOT fair. I just don't know. I'd need to think this one over.
"interlocking razor = Decreases skillcheck size, and increased penalty for failure. only applies to the mandatory skillchecks and not regular ones which may randomly appear (at a reduced chance). bit larger than overcharge skillchecks but smaller than the doctor madness ones."
Considering that I am of the opinion that Overcharge is a bad perk, that does not give me a ton of hope for this one.
"Jigsaws sketch = unchanged, but with the additional effect hidden from the survivor that the box furthest from the player whom has gained a reverse bear trap, has a higher chance of having their key."
I don't see what the point of hiding the second effect is. Beyond that, either the increased chance is minimal enough that it doesn't make much of a difference, or it DOES make a difference and substantially nerfs Sketch to be worse than Annotated Plan (I'd rather have an increased timer than a higher chance that they can get the Trap off in one shot). There isn't really a middle ground here.
"Amandas secret = See auras of survivors working on jigsaw boxes. upon the last reverse bear trap being used, will give amanda aura reading whilst within crouch on survivors within 12m."
Oof, this just makes it way too easy to force a Trap kill.
"Rule set no.2 = All survivors with reverse bear traps on their head have the oblivious status effect. Boxes also take 15% longer to search"
This is basically just two Rare add-ons stapled together (Rusty Attachments and Bag of Gears). Not very exciting for an Ultra Rare.
"Amandas letter = Auras of survivors are revealed to the pig whilst within 16m. Ambush attacking a survivor makes all other survivors scream within 32m"
I'm going to assume you meant that the auras are revealed while crouch. This is an interesting idea.
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That sounds more like life being ruined due to salt as opposed to a flashlight save.
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@Mr_boots98 said:
Why is it when the hatch spawns and before it opens the killer and the survivor rush to it. And the survivor is standing in the middle when it opens and the killer can still close it on you while standing to the side???
Depends on whose command is registered by the game first: The Survivor's command to jump in, or the Killer's command to close the Hatch.
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My issue is that I think the reward outweighs the risk, and the severity to which the reward outweighs the risk increases with each person who has Adrenaline in a given trial. It doesn't make it OP so much as painfully frustrating to play against when the cards line up right, which I think is more likely to happen than one would think.
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Pig, because I really like gimmicky alternate win-cons (In this case, a way to kill someone that is not sacrificing or mori).