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@Wesker said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075055#Comment_1075055
Blood Warden is very easy to counter, if I tell my grandma to leave the opening process at 99%, she had perfectly countered it.
Why not just have Blood Warden block the Exit Gate panels, then?
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I think I've processed my thoughts enough that I'd like to give my input on this. I've already said my piece on the passive/active timers and having the Key not be in the last box (or in this case, having it be in the last box less frequently), so I'll just list add-ons that I find interesting/cool (my opinion may have changed on some of these; I don't remember which ones you have changed and which ones you kept the same):
RBT penalty add-ons: I think you fixed the problem with these add-ons quite nicely. Now the Pig is not encouraged to tunnel these people down from the get-go and can wait for them to get their Traps off (or die trying :P ) for the Pig to get some benefit. The only thing I would suggest is switching Broken and Mangled. Or maybe just get rid of Mangled altogether, since Sloppy Butcher exists.
Rules Set No. 2 - Interesting way to punish Survivors without Traps on. Part of me wonders if you could add a tiny bit more cream on top to sweeten the deal for an Ultra Rare, but I think this is more interesting than the current RSN2.
Last Will - Sad that you got rid of the uncommon Last Will since that is one of her best add-ons currently, but this new one is also cool.
Amanda's Letter - Interesting solution to both making it better than the current Letter and making sure you can't cheese things with new Last Will. I'd be on-board with this idea.
Amanda's Secret - I've seen this idea played around with before. I think it works for a Very Rare. Worst-case scenario, adding a timer increase could prevent the add-on from being overly frustrating if need be.
Iridescent Blades - I've always wondered how you could make Deep Wound an option for Pig, as it would be deceptively powerful on her. My concern is that applying Deep Wound on EVERY box has a LOT of time waste potential, since it effectively doubles the time waste per box (ain't no way you searching more than one box without succumbing to Deep Wound). Maybe having it apply Deep Wounds only on the first box you search and cutting the timer increase (only because your base kit idea results in a timer increase for Survivors anyways; under current Pig mechanics, I would still suggest a Timer increase)?
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075124#Comment_1075124
Ok, I accept your arguments against Franklins but even without it, you can tunnel the key holder and get rid of him, if they found in a chest and they are not in a SWF the rest of the survivors will be clueless about it and you dont need to equip anything to tunnel someone out of the game.
The comparison still stands, both situations are extremely strong, can be dealt by the oposing side if detected in time and both have time consuming requirements to reach full potential.
You do need to tunnel someone out of the game, though, which means you are:
1) Playing into DS if they have it
2) Potentially playing into Borrowed Time if someone else has it
3) Not really pressuring Gens
It also hinges on you actually REALIZING that someone found a Key in the chest, which is not an easy thing to do at all because Keys are tiny, hard to see, and not really something you are actively looking at if you didn't see a Key in the pre-game lobby.
And EVEN with all that, there is still the possibility that another Survivor took note of the Key (this is assuming no SWF; in SWF, they will almost definitely know about the Key the moment it is found) and will keep it in mind in the event the Survivor with it is tunneled. There is still also the scenario where the Survivor chooses NOT to take the Key from the chest OR takes the Key and hides it to better ensure that the Killer doesn't know they have it.
With all that in mind, a Survivor who finds a Key in a chest does not have to play the game any different than normal compared to a Devour Hope user who now has to both actively stay away from Hooked Survivors and play Totem defense once Survivors are aware of its existence to maintain it. For a Key, the game length is just shorter for them (either slightly shorter if no one dies and they only need to skip opening the Gates, almost 20% shorter if someone dies, or almost 40% shorter if two people die). For a Killer with DH, they are now juggling the extra aforementioned tasks to try and gain the benefit of DH that you are referring to (the Moris).
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075094#Comment_1075094
You can equip Franklins, tunnel the key holder or killing them before the hatch spawns and they locate them.
You need 5 gens to get the hatch with 4 survivors and 4 gens with 3, you have ample time to get rid of them and sticking to the theme of the post (we are not discussing keys overall, just the act of finding them in chests), you need to find a key in a chest to get all of that which is a very low chance even with Plunderers.
Is a good comparison, both Devour and keys in chests have some counterplay, both can be devastating to the other side if left unatended, both have time consuming requirements and both are rare ocasions.
1)That doesn't get rid of the Key.
2)Furthermore, the Key holder can just hide the Key somewhere for later.
3) Equipping Franklin's to pre-emptively have something (something not even good) to deal with the RNG-esque scenario of someone finding a Key in a chest doesn't make sense. What if the team didn't bring anything that makes you want to use Franklin's?
4) You don't need to equip anything to deal with Devour. Small Game or Detective's Hunch is helpful, but not necessary.
Franklin's is not a good counterplay to Keys, and this is not a good comparison.
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@grim1 said:
I guess what I would really like to hear from other people is that if the boxes where less of an rng mechanic, would you be more open to having more boxes scattered around the map? If there was some kind of guide, rather than rng could we have new pig add ons that effected that mechanic.... rather than the add ons that increases the boxes that spawn on the map by one or two. I dont know about you, but currently it feels like one of the most worthless add on on the pig to me...
I mean, im even open to the traps not out right killing survivors after two minutes its currently at, but rather adds stacking debuffs the longer the trap is on the survivors. IE, slowing repairs, hemorrhage, broken then after 5 mins death.... or something along that line. At no point would it be beneficial for pig to camp a box for a single survivor, but can still keep pressure by keeping track of their location and attempting to force them away while chasing others.
Her extra Jigsaw Box add-ons are two of her better add-ons IMO because they shift the odds of wasting time in your favor. Maybe not enough currently, but that's something that can be fixed in base kit. The extra time on Annotated Plan is barely relevant. In fact, I'd argue Pig should have another extra box add-on at uncommon that raises the timer even further.
And your idea regarding adding penalties isn't a good one IMO because the only things that will keep a competent Survivor off the gens are slowing down Gen repairs by a lot and actual death.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073857#Comment_1073857
The kiler can get free moris without offering one, you can bring Devour Hope to get them after 5 unhooks, yes I know the totem can be cleansed and requires 5 hooks but keys are a 7% chance without Plunderers or 14% with it and require a number of generators to be used.
P.D. those percentages also include the green key which cant be used to open the hatch so the chances for an usable key are a bit lower.
You can counterplay Devour Hope very simply by just breaking the Totem. There is nothing you can do to stop Keys outside of just winning the game. Definitely not a good comparison.
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To be honest, I think the definition of "holding the game hostage" should be broadened EEEEEVER SO SLIGHTLY for Killers. True, you can't technically hold a game hostage indefinitely by yourself as long as the Survivors can still trigger EGC, but I think holding a Survivor in place for 4+ gens should definitely count for something. It's similar to a Survivor holding a Killer in place (in such a way that it wasn't actually possible to hit them thanks to the position they were in) until everyone else was gone and then making the escape themself, something I've had to experience.
That being said, OP's case is not even close to hostage taking and is nothing to worry about.
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@Snow_Lep said:
Unless you have pluderers, the chance of getting a WORKING key is low. First the item has to be purple or pink, which is basically inpossible without plunderers as is, THEN you have to get the 1/x chance between the other items of that rarity.
Long story short, it is all RNG my dude. Are we gonna remove toolboxes from chests to stop gen rushing?
If the devs are to be believed, we're gonna nerf toolboxes, so... :P
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@unlit said:
Your just killer main who got pissed at a survivor came here to complain so it doesnt happend to you again why not focus removing Moris and face campers there more things wrong with killer than survivors
Sure, those seem like good goals. Moris, keys, 4% unhooks, NOED. Let's do something about all of that.
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@unlit said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074290#Comment_1074290
Oh yeah and remove Moris or make it so last hooked you can get mori or sacrificed oh and remove perk that make the killer only hit you one time and your down oh and remove noed just shut up and leave the poor keys alone you just want survivors to be sitting ducks just get better
Most of these ideas you are suggesting are good.
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@McLightning said:
That movie was an abomination.
The ONLY good part was they cast the voice of Ryuk PERFECTLY. Everything else was a horses ass.
Who's a better "best casting choice in bad movie?"
Willem Dafoe as Ryuk or John Goodman as Fred Flinstone?
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@Almo said:
We know it's weird, we'll fix it. It just needs a slot in the production schedule. :)
Glad to see it finally be acknowledged.
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@NullEXE said:
That's because of the Sacrifice Emblem. Since you didn't Hook, and kill the survivors via that way, you did not receive enough points in your Sacrifice Emblem that it forced you to only get as high as a "Brutal Killer".
It's funny that the Survivor emblem system enables them to play many different ways that they desire - stealthy, self-sacrificing, very fast, alone, or as a group - But Killer emblems are designed in a way that if you don't play one specific way you lose points in certain categories, and have to make up the points by alternative means.
Interesting way to run an asymmetrical game that the ranking system punishes the solo role, for being a solo role. It doesn't work. But it is interesting.
Exactly this. I get that you don't want to reward Mori offerings too much, but at the same time there are games where you very much earned it. Like, how you gonna tell someone who pulled off 4k with Fragrant Tuft + Tombstone that they lost a pip?
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Aesthetically? New Lehry's. Balance-wise? Iunno, Father Campbell's Chapel?
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Remove 4% too?
Now we're talking.
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I currently do not like Ruin, but I also didn't like old Ruin. I don't like Hex perks, so eh.
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@KingHEADBUSTER said:
Lmao survivor mains be like "noooooooo waaaaaaaa" lmao there have been other very popular games that randomly select. I'm just saying choose a preference and occasionally play the other, or call the waaaaaaaambulance and go to weenie hut general hospital. Lololol
I am a heavy Killer main, and I am against this idea.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073495#Comment_1073495
Honestly I barely ever use add-ons on most killers anymore, Pig's one of the ones I play the most.. I love some of her add-ons but they feel underpowered.. even the strong ones are lacking, so I just don't bother and go for perks that will help me better than the add-ons will.
I might have to try a trap kill build sometime just to see how it goes, I get the rare trap kill once in a while and it always comes as a surprise since it's usually someone I forgot about, I just trap them to make them waste time taking it off, not to kill them.
Personally, I think Pig is desperstely in need of an add-on revision. I think she has a lot of outright bad/useless add-ons. But that is neither here nor there. :P
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No way. People have every right to play whichever side they want whenever they wish.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073422#Comment_1073422
Well honestly it could be a good idea depending on the killer's play style, I suppose I just don't see the use for it myself, doesn't mean it's not a viable idea.. I'm not one to chase after survivors with traps on their heads (unless i hear them working on a box when I'm nearby or at the end of the game when generators are done and there's an active trap) but I suppose it would make for a different type of game, bit like using different perks for various reasons.
I see it in a similar camp as Tampered Timer. That add-on purely exists to force Trap kills and nothing more. It exists for the players who want to try and make Trap kills happen. Given how many Pig add-ons exist that are not worth using, I think in an add-on pass for her, there's room to give her substantially better add-ons while also having this one be more of a gimmicky add-on for players who want to shoot for the dream (like me, for example). As long as you don't make this playstyle too good (since it would make things fairly unbalanced/miserable for Survivors), I think it is reasonable to give this playstyle another bone (though not much more than that, to be fair).
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I would argue maps.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073381#Comment_1073381
Well, for Plague, it would be easy to see the progress of the infection to figure if you should charge a full puke or only a partial one to finish the job
As for seeing the timer.. why, really? aside from being able to see if their head's about to blow up and try to prevent them from doing boxes to ensure their death, there's no point in implementing that.. Unless that's the whole reason behind that suggestion, but if it is, say so, I mean nothing wrong with add-ons to pressure survivors a bit, but don't try to make it pass as a simple UI change just for the sake of changing things.
I don't think Survivor's sickness progress (or their Sleep Timer, for what it's worth) should be hidden either, but that is a different discussion.
Honestly, I'm not even entirely 100% convinced that it would be OP as base kit, but I'm trying not to to blind myself too much as a Pig main by advocating to just give her everything but the kitchen sink (my original plan a while was to make base kit such that Pig can see the timers but Survivors cannot). I think SLIGHTLY pushing for Trap kills is not a bad thing, and IMO an add-on that does not help Pig with anything else other than slightly aiding them with that is more than reasonable.
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@Marcavecunc said:
Same reason the game doesn't tell you the progress of the Plague's infection on survivors when she pukes on them.. would make it too easy for killers for various reasons.
And seeing the timer on survivor traps would just give some people a reason to tunnel trapped survivors without downing them then stopping the chase to let the timer resume.
Too easy to what, though? Force kills? Like I said, what makes it better than straight-up shaving 30 seconds off the clock?
Tunneling Trapped Survivors is already not a good idea unless you start to do so when they are already almost out of time, which is easy to figure out already by listening to the speed of the beeping on their Traps.
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@Magician said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073325#Comment_1073325
But your statement has a major flaw. You assume I am a survivor main or that I don't associate as a killer.
Where in my statement did I declare you to be a Survivor or Killer main?
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@Magician said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1073270#Comment_1073270
All of the whining has caused a lot of the survivor experience to be gutted. The game used to be more fun imo. If they were going to do that, they should have just made killers stronger. Killers now just want to be op even with so many things changed and they still complain because it isn't easy to have a dominate win with 4 v 1. They just want easy kills and easy map control. It is too much.
Both sides believe that the other side has ruined the game thanks to whining.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070765#Comment_1070765
Oh yeah me too. Start inactive, of course. And still carry 4 traps at the start, so that would be a possibility of 5.
Definitely. It is probably the easiest add-on to make:
-You begin the trial Obsessed with one Survivor.
-The Obsession begins the trial wearing an inactive Reverse Bear Trap.
Nothing more, nothing less. Boom, easy Very Rare add-on.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
The problem instantly here is that while it sounds cool, it would be too op. Pig is already quite a high tier killer, he doesn't need anything that would make him more powerful.
The problem is that this idea wouldn't help the Pig at all. Competent Survivors wouldn't give a hoot about Skill Checks in the same way that they don't care about Overcharge or any of the Pig's add-ons related to Skill Checks.
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Idk if they said anything to the contrary since, but last I heard from the devs, they were both aware and totally fine with Snap Out of It receiving priority over Mending.
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3+ kills as Killer.
3+ escapes as Survivor.
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Lol, I had someone do the same thing once. We had to explain to them that it was Thanatophobia and not NOED.
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I am sure it is definitely a lot better than earlier in the game's lifespan, but I would not call it overall balanced yet.
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@meatisadelicacy said:
Disagree that survivor mistakes are miniscule. There are games where one mistake single handedly gives killers a 4k, the killer just doesn't realize it. It's a big assumption that you can rely on even one of your teammates in most games.
Is that one mistake resulting in a 4k, or is it one mistake resulting in a domino effect of misplays resulting in a 4k?
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OP's username rings a bell. Or more specifically, raises a red flag.
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@Brucecastro81 said:
Pig is fine, she is the killer that has the most mid/late game pressuere, combine with corrupt and pop and she is deadly
As someone who tested both Corrupt and Pop on Pig, I would not use Corrupt.
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To me, this seems more like a Blindness buff than a new Status Condition.
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@McLightning said:
Honestly, at this point in the games lifetime, I think they should really remove tiered perks. The way you have to grind for every single character...I mean, if you want to talk about things that will scare new players away, a nonsense grind will do that more than any killer perk.
Agreed. Even with the changes to the bloodweb from a while back, the grind is just too much.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070728#Comment_1070728
It would indeed make a good add-on, rather than making it base kit. Bit like how some survivors start asleep against Freddy and things like that.
Heck.. making everyone start with a trap would be a bit too powerful, but what if we add these fine lines (that I stole from Freddy's Black Box)
- The Pig becomes obsessed with one survivor
- The Obsession starts the Trial with a Reverse Bear Trap and cannot remove it
- So on and so forth
TBH, I think an add-on that simply made the Obsession start with an RBT is enough to make it an add-on I would use.
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@Marcavecunc said:
Interesting idea, but sadly, it would change the way the game plays a bit too much.
I like the Phase 1 part though, where everyone has a trap on their head and needs to search boxes to extend their life. That would be a nice addition to her base kit. But as you said, they'd need to change her add-ons, since you're no longer putting them on the survivors after you down them.
I'd imagine the Phase 1 idea as an Ultra Rare more than anything.
-Each Survivor begins the trial wearing an active Reverse Bear Trap.
-Searching a Jigsaw Box increases the death timer by a random amount.
-Survivors can't remove Reverse Bear Traps.
-Tremendously increases the death timer on the Reverse Bear Trap.
-Survivors can leave through an Exit Gate with active Reverse Bear Traps.
I dunno if it's an idea I'd wanna see, but there you go.
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@Starr43 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070693#Comment_1070693
But the potential for Blood Warden plays..
To be fair, I don't really like end game perks because they only do something during the end of the game. Rancor is a tiny exception because it gives you Survivor locations periodically (at the expense of the Obsession seeing your Aura periodically).
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At that point, I'd rather just run Rancor.
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Would this not raise the price of perks on average overall?
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@Starr43 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070645#Comment_1070645
50% of 0 is 0.. is it not?
sorry I meant to quote that.
I don't quite remember the rule of thumb, but I know that in this particular case, the percentages are additive, not multiplicative. 100% - 100% + 50% = 50%.
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If Iron Will reduces pain sounds by 100% and Stridor increases them by 50%, then the total volume of said sounds will be 50%.
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The add-ons that give him reduced TR when Static Blast is not charged can work with M&A to give him a super small TR. Those same add-ons (along with Distressing) also work well with Whispers, as giant TR = giant AoE for Static Blast that Whispers will ensure you land a hit with (barring lockers).
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070370#Comment_1070370
WHAT?! Nobody cares about BPs?! Now, that's new! I've made docens of polls about what is a win for people and most people answer it depends on BP and pipping!
Not fo me, personally. As long as I get my kills. :P
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1070319#Comment_1070319
True. Maybe have the boxes generate their own radius that only the survivor with the trap on their head can hear, to guide them in the proper direction? Or have a visual indicator showing the distance between you and the nearest unexplored box.
Or.. leave it as it is and make the RNG work differently, instead of selecting a box and placing the key in it, make is so the first box you search has a 12.5% chance of giving you the key, next 25%, then 50%, then 100%, making the chances of finding the key higher and higher..
Or you could make it "100 / Number of boxes" so basically.. 25% chance per box with 4 boxes, (25/50/75/100) or 20 for 5 (20/40/60/80/100), for those with that add-on.. but I feel like making it that way would still end up with survivors barely, if ever, having to search all 4/5 boxes..
Oh, and throwing it in here, but I feel like if a survivor searches a box while his trap is inactive, it should activate it. So, search a box before a generator gets completed, it activates and forces you to continue your search.. search a box during endgame if the trap got placed on your head after all generators are done? Your own fault, deal with it.
I prefer just making the first box auto-fail and leave the rest of the boxes as-is.
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Pointing in a general direction doesn't seem like enough of a marker to really go off of. If the Pig starts to interfere with the Survivor, it could be not the most difficult thing in the world to just disorient the Survivor and make them lose track of which direction they might have to go. This feels like this would get a lot of more casual Survivors unfairly killed. Don't think I can get behind this idea.
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I don't get it. What is the suggestion being proposed beyond "do a thing to make camping stop?"
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Doesn't 3-genning largely rely on Survivors screwing up?
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Staying steadyish in the lower half of red rank. Still haven't really found a Pig build I'm happy with yet, though.