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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1081064#Comment_1081064
You can already see the key though.
EDIT: Anyway I don't have as much of an issue to seeing what the items actually are in the lobby vs the totem counter thing. I guess seeing that it's a broken key would indeed mean less tunneling for that survivor.
The Key is very easy to miss, and having something that not only tells you if they have a Key but also tells you if it's a legit Key or just a Broken one is very nice to have. Same goes for Toolboxes, since they come in a variety of flavors.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1081055#Comment_1081055
Why does everything have to cater to every single survivors' wishes, though?
This caters to Killers just as much. Being able to actually SEE the Key in the lobby would be huge.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1081011#Comment_1081011
I know what you mean.. But that's a risk you're taking by taking one with you though. Same if you find one in a chest.. I usually leave it there, or bring it to another survivor as a "gift"
Same for everyone bringing toolboxes, they might all be speedy boxes, or all brown ones with no add-ons. Killer might still bring Franklin's Demise to counter them, just in case.
Why does it need to be a risk, though?
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@Ohlookahook2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1081015#Comment_1081015
Enjoy lobby simulator then.
Pretty sure it is the person who DCs who will be playing lobby simulator. :P
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@Ohlookahook2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1080984#Comment_1080984
Y'all ain't banning everybody.
No, just the ones who DC repeatedly.
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@Marcavecunc said:
I like the icon surrounding names for both sides. It's useful for survivors to see who's being chased, or if anyone's being chased, when they're out of sight. Some aura reading perks are good for that but if you don't run them, it complicates things a bit. And a visual of which hook state the survivor is in is also an interesting way to keep track of how many times each survivor has been hooked (or which state they reached, if thye wiggled on first hook.
Seeing load-outs of other survivors would be useful as well, but not entirely sure I'd want the killer to see which items I'm bringing.. if it's a green broken key or a useful one..Then again, aside from the key, the rest of the items don't give much clues.. you can slap a brand new part on a brown toolbox and ditch it after you've used it, or an insta-heal on any medkit rarity, so the killer seeing the items but not the add-ons won't mean much in the end.
Not a big fan of the suggestion of showing how many totems are left as base kit. Including it with Small Game would make the most sense to me. But I agree it would be a good information to have at all times when I'm surviving and not running that perk, but having the visual there will make survivors more inclined to work on totems than they are now.. out of sight out of mind mentality, those who want to do totems already do, those who don't care might start doing them if they see there are still 5 totems up when nearly all generators are done.
I actually think Keys are the biggest reason you'd want to be able to see the item. A Killer definitely would want to prepare against a Dull/Skeleton Key somehow, and a Survivor would not want to be tunneled out of the game hardcore because the Killer had no way of knowing that the Key was a Broken one.
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@geishroy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1080308#Comment_1080308
will you guys fix the inability to mend during tier 3 madness? or is that intended game mechanics because you guys can't play test your game?
They already stated that they were both aware of it and okay with it as-is.
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Not sure how I feel about suggestion 3, but I feel like you're onto something with #1/2.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
What if you have 5 traps then each takes a random amount of searches, but each can only take a search number once? So the traps could take 1,2,3,4,5 searches or maybe 4,2,3,5,1 searches.
That would require an extra box, as there are only four boxes base kit.
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@AntiJelly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1080599#Comment_1080599
I'm pretty sure what he means is that, when the trap is placed on your head, the game decides an amount of boxes you have to search before getting the trap off.
Yes, I am aware. I am asking how that makes the situation any different in practice.
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What does changing it from "one box has the key" to "you gotta search X boxes, where X is randomly determined" accomplish, if you don't mind me asking? To me, it still seems like the end result is the same in practice.
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Basement is banworthy? :P
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Currently, health is most important, followed by variety, followed by lore.
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@Rex_Huin said:
Well we can make a condition for activation then so it cant be used in the early game. Like cleansing a dull totem or something.
That sounds fine. Only thing I'm struggling with is the lore behind this. Why would the entity want to block windows for survivors? To give them hope I guess. That's the catch all explanation for most things lore wise.
That would make it so you can save it for a potentially prime opportunity, which can also be problematic. Wanna use it ASAP? Get a totem out of the way. Wanna wait until later? You can do that too
The payoff you are suggesting is substantially stronger than you are giving it credit for.
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Okay?
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@Rex_Huin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1080086#Comment_1080086
Just once per match at the cost of another perk wouldn't be too much to ask would it?
It's possible that once per match could be all that is needed to make the early game impossible for the Killer to do anything about. How do you catch a competent Survivor who now has a single use ability to turn one of a multitude of unsafe vaults into safe ones, safe ones into god ones, and god ones into cheat codes?
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I guess, but very begrudgingly.
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@Snow_Lep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1078883#Comment_1078883
I do have one question. Should that key work when so many gens are done, or just be whevener the survivor feels like using it?
As the lobby is in its last five seconds, a Hatch appears, and the person with the Key can open it to let everyone escape before the game starts.
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@Snow_Lep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076355#Comment_1076355
Yes. Exactly what I'm saying. Keys will now be buffed to allow you to spawn a single-use hatch upon pressing the secondary action. With a pink addon to allow for that hatch to stay open for 30 seconds without allowing the killer to close it.
It's genius I tell ya.
You might just be the person who will singlehandedly save this game.
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@OrangeJack said:
Just add penalties for DCing more than x number of times within a y number of time and that'll solve multiple issues.
I mean, you're not wrong, but that is kinda heading into a different discussion. The focus of the perk for me is destroying items.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1078627#Comment_1078627
It was ment that you get the perk instead of a random item or offering. So you have a chance to get 3 (or even more, depending on how many mystery boxes are available) instead of 2 perks out of a single bloodweb.
Gotcha. I am on board, then.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1078604#Comment_1078604
What do you mean by that? You would get a free perk that you have unlocked or is a non teachable.
I was referring to the idea of the Mystery Box randomly containing a teachable perk that then becomes unlocked on everyone's bloodweb, which I assume is what the other person was asking about. As long as the Mystery Box would only contain perks you already unlocked, I'd be okay.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
Teachable or something you owe? If it is teachable then I suggest not,it should be harder to get. If it's a normal perk I'm perfectly fine with it.
I would hate for it to be a teachable. There are a number of perks I actively do not want to see clog up the Bloodweb.
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@SnakeSound222 said:
Ooh, it’s a big ######### you to keys. I like it. Kinda wish the Survivor would still drop the item and have the game give you your item back if the Killer DCs though.
I would not want the ability to force Survivors to drop an item and the ability to break the item while it's on the ground to co-exist, be it on the same perk or on two separate perks. But that's just me.
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@bendermac said:
Let me say this: I was a no Ruin Killer before the change. The perk was great, no doubt about it. But 9 out of 10 games it didn't last beyond 2 minutes. Mostly it was gone in the first minute. So I stopped using it and found different perks that can help me in the match. This means the impact of the Ruin change was ZERO for me. Games don't go faster, nor slower than they did before the change.
It doesn't mean I don't get why people are upset about the change, but FFS adept. There are really good alternatives: Corrupt Intervention, PGTW, Sloppy Buggers, Thrilling Tremors and others. Sure the early game can be rough sometimes and other times the SV don't manage to get even one gen done.
Here are two examples where Ruin wasn't used and yet the Survivors struggled hard (Purple and Red Rank)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ss9_V3Ipt6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXPGBbPUvwQ
The problem are elsewhere: Map design: God loops, Map size, visibility *cough Farm Maps cough* and tiles placement.
This is where the devs need to work on these aspects. Changing the gen time wont change anything. So stop requesting this change.
There are really good alternatives: Corrupt Intervention, PGTW, Sloppy Buggers, Thrilling Tremors and others.
I don't really like any of those except for Pop.
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@Ihatelife said:
About the Pig buffs.... What if the ambush attack didn't require from you to crouch in order to use it? What if it was completely different action like static blast for the doctor? ^^
I think it would be very nice
That would probably require an increase in charge-up time to balance it out, but I guess at least then you would be able to see over a loop to see if a Survivor tries to make a run for it.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1077917#Comment_1077917
PC player, but I would think both console players have the same sensitivity limitations? Also, there are simply just dead zones on certain maps... or fellow survivors who have used up all the pallets. Have you ever played survivor?
Don't burn through pallets so quickly, then. If your teammates are doing that, that sounds like a potato problem, not a balance problem.
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@jiwix said:
yes just report free ..... and after ban .
You do realize that the devs will check the reports, look at your games, see Mad Grit, and then promptly discard the report?
Source: Am someone who uses Mad Grit in a meme build.
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I've been wanting this for some time.
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How about we make them destroy one of something that may or may not be "hidden" next to a hook? :P
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075187#Comment_1075187
RBT penalty add-ons: I think you fixed the problem with these add-ons quite nicely. Now the Pig is not encouraged to tunnel these people down from the get-go and can wait for them to get their Traps off (or die trying :P ) for the Pig to get some benefit. The only thing I would suggest is switching Broken and Mangled. Or maybe just get rid of Mangled altogether, since Sloppy Butcher exists.
I agree with switching mangled and broken, that's fine with me. However, I changed my mind about removing the mangled add-on because it gives synergy between add-ons and perks.
For example: You could use the mangled add-on to free yourself a perk slot if you already use Sloppy Butcher, or you could use both the mangled add-on and Sloppy Butcher to really discourage other survivors healing that survivor. If they heal, since I don't know the exact numbers, let's assume the mangled add-on applies a 20% mangled effect like Sloppy Butcher. Combining these two can make survivors take 10.5 seconds longer to heal the survivor, assuming these are the only effects in play.
I know stacking heal penalties aren't fun at all, but keep in mind that the mangled add-on will likely be on a 60 or 90 second timer.
Rules Set No. 2 - Interesting way to punish Survivors without Traps on. Part of me wonders if you could add a tiny bit more cream on top to sweeten the deal for an Ultra Rare, but I think this is more interesting than the current RSN2.
You want more cream to sweeten the deal?
Alrighty, here's a before and after I sweetened the deal. :P
Before
Rules Set NO.2 (Ultra Rare):
Survivors who active other survivors RBT by completing a generator will have their RBT immediately active the next time they are trapped without the need of a generator.
After
Rules Set NO.2 (Ultra Rare):
The next time they are trapped, survivors who active other survivors RBT by completing a generator:
- Will have their RBT immediately active without the need of a generator.
- After searching the first Jigsaw Box, all Jigsaw Box auras are hidden to them.
How sweet is the deal? 😁
Last Will - Sad that you got rid of the uncommon Last Will since that is one of her best add-ons currently, but this new one is also cool.
The current Last Will is extremely good because you are granted more stall potential with the RBT. However, since this add-on is really good, I want to make the add-on memorial by making it an Ultra Rare with a super strong effect. Then, have a different add-on grant an additional RBT since it gives the player two options for more RBTs. 😁
Amanda's Letter - Interesting solution to both making it better than the current Letter and making sure you can't cheese things with new Last Will. I'd be on-board with this idea.
I was thinking Amanda's Letter should be an early-mid game add-on to find survivors who are attempting to hide from you. Once you start getting pressure on the survivors by trapping them and hooking them, I don't think you need the additional boost from Amanda's Letter anymore. At the time, I was thinking an add-on that can aid you during the early-mid game would be great since that's the time generators can start flying and need to start pressuring survivors as soon as possible. 😁
Amanda's Secret - I've seen this idea played around with before. I think it works for a Very Rare. Worst-case scenario, adding a timer increase could prevent the add-on from being overly frustrating if need be.
I have to disagree with a time increase because the passive timer will almost always force a survivor to remove their RBTs first or have a very high chance of dying to their trap. Knowing this, I feel like the passive timer gives enough time for survivors to memorize the Jigsaw Box locations before their passive timer runs out and thus, have to rely on memory.
Even before they are trapped, they can memorize a few and use that knowledge when it comes in handy. There's tons of counterplay, which makes me believe there should be no compensation for the survivor.
Iridescent Blades - I've always wondered how you could make Deep Wound an option for Pig, as it would be deceptively powerful on her. My concern is that applying Deep Wound on EVERY box has a LOT of time waste potential, since it effectively doubles the time waste per box (ain't no way you searching more than one box without succumbing to Deep Wound). Maybe having it apply Deep Wounds only on the first box you search and cutting the timer increase (only because your base kit idea results in a timer increase for Survivors anyways; under current Pig mechanics, I would still suggest a Timer increase)?
I see the concern since mending takes 12 seconds, (keep in mind the passive timer allows you to mend yourself) and for every Jigsaw Box fail, they have to spend another 12 seconds mending.
Going to modify my idea to make it more fair, but make it more about the lore.
Before
Iridescent Blades (Very Rare):
Survivors RBT active and passive timer is increased by 15 seconds. Once the survivor finishes searching a Jigsaw Box, they will be inflicted by the Deep Wounds status effect. The survivor will have 15 seconds to mend themselves.
After
Iridescent Blades (Very Rare):
Trapped survivors will be inflicted by the Deep Wound status effect whenever their health state changes to the injured state. Their Deep Wound timer will remain paused for as long as they aren't searching a Jigsaw Box.
Succeeding a Jigsaw Box skill check increases the amount of time it takes to mend themselves.
The survivor will have 30 seconds to mend themselves.
Something to note: Since Deep Wounds is considered a health state, survivors who are trapped mend themselves to the injured state will just reset the Deep Wound timer. This happens because they changed their health state to the injured state, from the Deep Wound state.
This gives survivors some choices: do I mend after search the Jigsaw Box since it takes less time to mend and refreshes my timer? Maybe I should search the first two Jigsaw Boxes then spend a lot of time mending?
Edit: Grammar errors
I agree with switching mangled and broken, that's fine with me. However, I changed my mind about removing the mangled add-on because it gives synergy between add-ons and perks.
As long as Mangled isn't anywhere above common, I'll live. I see no for an add-on that only inflicts Mangled to exist at higher than common as long as Sloppy Butcher exists.
Alrighty, here's a before and after I sweetened the deal. :P
Good lord, that's a lot of cream. I think it's fair, though (for an Ultra Rare), since the fact that a Trap auto-starts should be a big enough telegraph that a Survivor afflicted by Rules Set No. 2 is going to have to remember the locations of the other Boxes.
I have to disagree with a time increase because the passive timer will almost always force a survivor to remove their RBTs first or have a very high chance of dying to their trap. Knowing this, I feel like the passive timer gives enough time for survivors to memorize the Jigsaw Box locations before their passive timer runs out and thus, have to rely on memory.
Fair enough. I could very realistically envision the add-on not needing any timer increase.
I see the concern since mending takes 12 seconds, (keep in mind the passive timer allows you to mend yourself) and for every Jigsaw Box fail, they have to spend another 12 seconds mending.
Going to modify my idea to make it more fair, but make it more about the lore.
This new idea is...a weird one. I'm gonna need to wrap my head around this one, since the idea of a) PERPETUALLY being in Deep Wound state b) The Deep Wound timer being paused except during a specific action (in this case, searching a box) is not something Dead By Daylight has ever done before.
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
The video in that thread is incomplete. So, I refrain from judgement. Anything that is anti-tunneling endgame is very powerful, but that's because tunneling itself becomes more powerful endgame. Of course, the two effects will go hand in hand.
Isn't tunneling actually weaker endgame? They only need to run to an open Exit Gate or an Exit Gate that someone can just open from 99% to make the escape.
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@YourFather said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1077032#Comment_1077032
My bad, just remove 2).
If its a bad perk depends on the time the item is locked.
3) has nothing to do with the perk.
To fix 3) :https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076839#Comment_1076839
#3 is the primary reason I made the perk. #2 synergizes with #3, and #1 is to still allow the perk to retain its purpose of keeping Survivors from using items. The perks needs both halves to be worth using IMO.
Your idea still doesn't actually stop White Ward from being countered by current Franklin's, anyways.
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@YourFather said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1077002#Comment_1077002
Remove 2) and 3), then its a teachable that doesnt work very well with Franklins.
That would make the perk not good.
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@YourFather said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076892#Comment_1076892
Ehh..., i don't like the idea of chaging franklins.
What they could do... is to create that perk as a teachable for a new killer.
White Ward should not be countered by any means.
The easiest way to make it so Franklin's can't counter White Ward would be to change Franklin's. If you make my perk idea as a teachable for another Killer, you create a two-perk combo with Franklin's that makes bringing in items a waste of time AND completely hard counters White Ward. Not a good idea.
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Best way to buff it IMO: Combine it and We'll Make It into one perk.
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@YourFather said:
You know what needs a rework?!
Its the We're Gonna Live Forever perk.
Franklins doesnt need a change, the killer consumes also hes addons every match without survivors using a perk to do so.
What the devs should do is, to make the game register the recent dropped items by the survivors.
And if the killer disconnectes, the survivors should have all the rights to keep their offerings and items.
Why should the survivors get punished for making the killer leave the game?Excatly, there is no good reason.
I'll be honest, i didn't leave a single game as a killer intentionally.
I didn't design this perk with the primary intent of fixing the DC issue. I designed it to destroy items (read: Keys).
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@Waffleyumboy said:
Dodging
Solution: Punish dodging.
Solution to "But what about dodging lobbies with high ping?": Have all players confirm that they are okay with staying in the lobby, then lock them in and punish dodging from there.
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@Snow_Lep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1074533#Comment_1074533
Okay. Bad example. Are we gonna remove medkits to make healing take longer?
Fixed it :)
Didn't they buff medkits? Are you saying we should buff Keys? :P
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This idea gets a thumbs up from me.
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@arcnkd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076256#Comment_1076256
I can understand that. I just feel items are too powerful in general and Survivors rarely feel the tension of burning an item in a match; because they just hit a chest up and find another and they're good.
One thing I was considering doing in addition to what I already proposed was upping the damage Franklin's Demise did to an item (to, like, 10/15/20%), but I wasn't sure if it would be excessive since not dropping the item means Franklin's Demise can damage an item twice per chase instead of only once.
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@arcnkd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076244#Comment_1076244
Honestly, I think it would be very balanced to have it still knock the item out of survivor's hands; and allow you to break it -- but only work on items not-found within the match. It would force Survivors to search chests more and rely on Luck (bringing focus to possibly increase Luck's purpose in the game) to find good items or risk bringing in a really good item and getting it destroyed.
I dunno, I don't really like the idea of items being breakable or not breakable based on a relatively arbitrary factor. Being able to knock items out of their hands and break them on the spot also amplifies the feelbads of super countering White Ward, which is something I feel is not necessary and I would like to see remedied.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076214#Comment_1076214
I still don't enjoy the idea of destroying an item, even tho lorewise it's acceptable. I dunno i find it interesting tho 🤔🤔🤔🤔
My intent is to make sure that loose items can't just be picked up by other Survivors for later use. Mainly the Key, which this would provide a legitimate counterplay to without just going "Lololol all Keys are instantly deleted the moment you equip this perk."
@arcnkd said:
Honestly, I don't know where I stand on this. It definitely doesn't fit to be a perk of its own -- because you would have to run both it and Franklin's to get maximum benefit from it which is 2 perk slots. So I do think it should be just a rework of Franklin's.
I think the idea of breaking pesky medkits and toolboxes is more lucrative sounding than breaking keys personally. The idea of knocking the item free from the Survivor during a chase - letting them go and use a 'pallet-breaking-speed' action to break whatever item they were holding makes me laugh. I also like the idea that it works on any chest items too. It essentially makes it so if the game drags out too long, survivors can have all items available on map and that they brought in destroyed -- which makes me brim with eagerness.
However, I also think it may be too strong for that reason. Let me rephrase that -- too strong from a Survivor player's perspective. There isn't any counterplay other than "don't get hit" - which goes against the "come play tag" mentality the Devs are choking us with by shoving it down our throats - so I think Survivors would be too upset by the change, make a clamor, and Devs would be forced to nerf it to appease them.
The primary reason I re-worked Franklin's instead of making it a separate perk was to deliberately avoid the synergy of "Knock down an item and immediately break it," which basically makes bringing an item into a trial a waste of time. Not a good idea from a game design perspective. I added the "Survivors can't use items for X seconds" part to make sure Franklin's Demise still serves a purpose of keeping Survivors from using items, albeit in a different way.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1076202#Comment_1076202
You said the break item action. I thought that this is a 3 sec channel or so.
In my mind, I imagined it would just use the same animation as closing the Hatch (which I think is a stomp for every Killer except Spirit, who thrusts her sword into the ground). So it would probably just take a second at most.
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@CLAUDETTEINABUSH said:
I don't like the idea honestly. If it was another perk,like a fanmade perk,I would love that. But the channel needs to be gone. Killers must be quick on their feet. They must not do channels for the favor of a perk.
Conclusion; good perk idea, bad perk rework
Keep up the great work!
I don't know what you mean by "channel".
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Me. Gotta give it my all, otherwise I ain't really playing. :P
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From what another mod said, get proof from your ISP that you were DDoS'd, then report that person through Xbox.
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@Jasonisanicefella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075737#Comment_1075737
I wouldn't say in a good spot, he is annoying to play against. I think it is already time for a revision
I mean, it's already been explained how to play against him. What more do you want?
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075349#Comment_1075349
Its more likely to happen because the odds are higher, you always have a shot at 5 stacks of DH but for keys without plunderer (a ~3% chance, 7% to find a key but it mustnt be a green one) you would need to play 30 games to find one and on top of that in that specific game you still need to fix 5 gens to get a 4 men escape, you have a 3% chance of attempting to use the hatch. 4 or 3 people escaping after finding a key in a chest outside of a SWF is very very rare, as a Killer ive seen it only 2 times, as a survivor only once.
You always have a 100% chance of attempting 5 stacks of DH, Im sure you can get those stacks more than once in 30 games.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075285#Comment_1075285
And to use that key you need to fix a number of gen firsts, the hatch doesnt spawn if you dont fix one gen more than number of survivors alive, to get a 4 men escape you need 5 gens first, its not finding it and escaping right off the bat and then again, you have a very low chance of finding a key in the first instance.
Saying you have a guaranteed shot of getting to 5 stacks is like saying you have a guaranteed shot of finding a Key in a chest. It doesn't necessarily translate to a higher or lower chance of it happening.
The important thing in my eyes is that with Key, the only thing involved in finding one is RNG. No additional skill input on the Survivor necessary (LESS, in fact, if you aren't specifically aiming for a 4-man Hatch escape), no additional meaningful ways for the Killer to fight against it, no real changes in gameplay/tactics on the Survivor's part both before and after acquiring the Key. Meanwhile, for Devour Hope, there is:
-RNG in hoping the Totem isn't out in the open
-The Killer having to play with an extra caveat to reach that point (stay away from Hooked Survivors
-The Killer having to keep in mind how their opponents are playing to make sure they don't either start hunting for the totem OR end up seeing it by coincidence as a result of moving from one gen to another or a result of being chased in the direction of the Totem. This increases exponentially once Survivors are actually NOTIFIED of the existence of Devour Hope.
Both the Skill level of the Killer and the Survivor are pressured/tested when trying to play with or against Devour Hope. Meanwhile, the aspect of the Survivor being tested when finding a Key is "Can you win the game when the threshold of success is randomly changed in your favor" while the aspect for Killer is "Can you win the game when the threshold of success is randomly changed against your favor and potentially without you even being aware." It's simply not a fair comparison.
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@HectorBrando said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1075179#Comment_1075179
A trade off for DH being always there while finding a key being a 14% chance with Plunderers, the effects (an easier win) are the same even if the roads are different.
What caused this argument was the estatement "Unless killers can do with moris what survivors can do with keys in chests they should be removed", which they can, if its harder or easier or has more or less counterplay is up for each one to decide, I believe DH has a bigger chance of granting free moris than survivors have a chance of getting a key in a chest and use it to full potential (3 or 4 escapes) but I also admit is easier to counterplay DH than a key found in a chest.
DH the perk is technically always there. DH the Totem? Absolutely not. Furthermore, whether DH the Totem is/can be dealt with is far more in the hands of the opponent than whether the chest Key is/can be dealt with. The road being different matters a ton in this particular comparison IMO.
I personally think your belief that DH is easier to counterplay contradicts your belief that DH Moris is more likely to happen, which I think presents a big issue with your comparison. If it is easier to stop it, then what makes it more likely to happen than the other thing?