More information for both sides.
A lot of people seem to want things like kindred to be basekit, but I don't think that's the correct approach. However, I have come up with ways of giving more information to players without copying effects of perks, and they can benefit both sides.
Chase Indicators
For survivors:
The Entity's claws will now be around each of the player icons, though claws on normal players will be smaller than that of the Obsession. These claws will wiggle during chase like the Obsession's claws, so solo survivors will be able to tell who is being chased, regardless of who the Obsession is.
For Killers:
The claws will vary in size depending on the hook state the survivor is in, including the Obsession. This way the Killer can see which survivors have been hooked, and which survivors are dead on hook.
Examples:
Load-outs in lobby
The mobile version of DBD already does this, so I don't see why we can't have it on PC/Console.
For Survivors:
The perks, items, and add-ons of other survivors will be visible to you in the lobby (could either be shown above or below the survivors, or a mix of the two with perks on top and items on the bottom/vice versa). This will allow solo survivors to have some amount of coordination (Are all 4 survivors running Kindred? One of them can swap out Kindred for Open Handed to boost them, or just another perk, since 3 Kindreds is the same as 4 Kindreds).
For Killers:
Killers will be able to see items (but not add-ons or perks) of survivors in the pre-game lobby. Since you'll be able to see the rarity of the item, you will be able to make better decisions (brown toolboxes would be a different situation from alex's toolboxes. same goes for skeleton keys and broken keys). It will also be easier to tell whether a player has a key, as they can be hard to see sometimes.
Screenshots from DBD Mobile:
(Obviously it'll look different on PC/Console because we can see our characters in the lobby. This is just how they do it on Mobile.)
Totems
For Survivors:
A Totem counter will be visible on the HUD (possibly near the generator counter). This will help solos keep track of how many totems their team has broken, which is helpful for countering perks like NOED, determining whether it's safe to go for a hex with TOTH in play, and knowing if you can activate your Inner Strength.
For Killers:
The Totem counter will also be visible to the Killer so they can see the totems remaining without having to use TOTH.
In addition, looking at a hex totem will show which hex is linked to that totem (similar to the Mori icon when standing on a survivor).
(I'll probably add images later but for now I don't have time.)
That's all I can think of for now, but if I come up with something else or see a really cool idea in the comments I'll put it here. Feel free to share your thoughts and ideas!
Comments
I like the icon surrounding names for both sides. It's useful for survivors to see who's being chased, or if anyone's being chased, when they're out of sight. Some aura reading perks are good for that but if you don't run them, it complicates things a bit. And a visual of which hook state the survivor is in is also an interesting way to keep track of how many times each survivor has been hooked (or which state they reached, if thye wiggled on first hook.
Seeing load-outs of other survivors would be useful as well, but not entirely sure I'd want the killer to see which items I'm bringing.. if it's a green broken key or a useful one..Then again, aside from the key, the rest of the items don't give much clues.. you can slap a brand new part on a brown toolbox and ditch it after you've used it, or an insta-heal on any medkit rarity, so the killer seeing the items but not the add-ons won't mean much in the end.
Not a big fan of the suggestion of showing how many totems are left as base kit. Including it with Small Game would make the most sense to me. But I agree it would be a good information to have at all times when I'm surviving and not running that perk, but having the visual there will make survivors more inclined to work on totems than they are now.. out of sight out of mind mentality, those who want to do totems already do, those who don't care might start doing them if they see there are still 5 totems up when nearly all generators are done.
I think seeing the rarity of a key is actually helpful for survivors. No matter the rarity, a killer will currently attempt to tunnel and/or camp the key user to prevent them from opening hatch. If the killer could see the type of key, survivors who use broken keys for aura reading won't get tunneled for no reason.
The idea is to bring solos to near-SWF levels of information. SWF can easily keep track of totems, so a totem counter would only buff solos without buffing SWF. And if survivors are more inclined to work on totems, is that necessarily a bad thing, considering that Ruin is gone now and gens go by pretty fast?
Solo players already have perks to help them out if they care about totems that much. Small Game and Detective's Hunch (especially with the latest update to it that they don't have to be the ones finishing the generator to get an aura read and see the totems)
Making everything base-kit would make using those perks less useful and you'd end up with even more people running the meta perks because the useful (and different) perks wouldn't be as necessary anymore.
Small Game and Detective's Hunch are not used to know how many totems are left in the map. They're used to find where those totems are, which a totem counter would not do.
No but they help finding them, which is the entire point of it.
Hand holding is a bit ridiculous, considering how totems are secondary objectives that a lot of people don't bother doing. If they were primary objectives necessary for opening the gates and escaping, then yes, by all means, put a counter. But the way things are? Not necessary.
What next, a pallet counter, so you know how many are left to drop in the killer's face in a chase?
I actually think Keys are the biggest reason you'd want to be able to see the item. A Killer definitely would want to prepare against a Dull/Skeleton Key somehow, and a Survivor would not want to be tunneled out of the game hardcore because the Killer had no way of knowing that the Key was a Broken one.
I know what you mean.. But that's a risk you're taking by taking one with you though. Same if you find one in a chest.. I usually leave it there, or bring it to another survivor as a "gift"
Same for everyone bringing toolboxes, they might all be speedy boxes, or all brown ones with no add-ons. Killer might still bring Franklin's Demise to counter them, just in case.
Why does it need to be a risk, though?
Why does everything have to cater to every single survivors' wishes, though?
This caters to Killers just as much. Being able to actually SEE the Key in the lobby would be huge.
You can already see the key though.
EDIT: Anyway I don't have as much of an issue to seeing what the items actually are in the lobby vs the totem counter thing. I guess seeing that it's a broken key would indeed mean less tunneling for that survivor.
The Key is very easy to miss, and having something that not only tells you if they have a Key but also tells you if it's a legit Key or just a Broken one is very nice to have. Same goes for Toolboxes, since they come in a variety of flavors.
Honestly, all of these suggestions are perfectly fine and wouldn't harm the gameplay of the game at all. It would be beneficial even for partial SWF to see what their teammates are running and using so they can better coordinate how to play around that sicne they can't communicate with them that easily.
Knowing how many totems are left on the map wouldn't hurt things like Small Game or anything like that - the reason survivors don't worry about totems isn't because it isn't a 'main objective' but because Hexes are so weak or underused that Totems aren't a threat (if all hexes worked like NOED the drive to break totems would be a lot stronger; currently it is just tap a gen to see if Huntress' or Ruin is in play, maybe run into Third Seal being active somewhere).
There isn't a reason to go after Dull Totems other than BP because NOED isn't just rampant. And no, the argument that Small Game would be ruined because you wouldn't be able to use it to know when a totem is there is just ridiculous -- Small Game is for detecting and narrowing down on finding a totem - not for counting how many are still in play - which you can't do unless you are in a 4-man SWF, because there is no indicator if a random teammate breaks one.
Seeing item rarity would definitely allow killers to adjust their plans going into the game - and not hyper tunnel someone based on an item mesh in their hand. Keys are already risky to bring into matches anyway - just because they allow for Hatch escapes and not just to the one holding the key - and the killer knowing the rarity would only stop Broken Key users from being tunneled when they only use it for aura reading.
If anything, a totem counter would help small game users because they're not wasting time running around the map when a random teammate had already broken the last totem.
The "hand holding" is necessary for solos to be anywhere near SWF level. SWF knows how many totems are on the map, who is being chased (not to mention their location), and every perk/item their team is using.
We can't balance a game where SWF and solo survivors are at drastically different levels.
That's assuming survivor groups are all 4-man. 2 or 3 player groups don't know what everything is happening on the map either.
So basically, to bring solos (and apparently 2 and 3 man groups) up to par with 4 man groups, we'd need killer aura readings at all times, as well as a totem counter, and probably also the aura of the destroyed totems so you know not to search that area, since apparently 4 man groups are omniscient. You give 4 man groups too much credit. I played with plenty of different people, and the minority are the ones who mention how many totems have been done or where they were, and the ones that do usually are groups that focus on totems first, generators next (and they're a very small minority).
Killer aura reading at all times.
Stop putting words in my mouth to support your argument. That's not what I said and you know it.
In a 4-man SWF (when I say "SWF" that is what I am referring to), you can literally just ask "How many totems have you all broken?" and you'll know how many totems are left within a few seconds. Even when I play with my friend we always tell each other when we're breaking totems and if we find a totem broken by another survivor. It's not hard to coordinate.
Yes, they know in which areas totems have been broken and sometimes where the killer is (especially with OoO, not to mention only 1 survivor needs to see the killer for everyone to know which killer it is). The goal is NOT to make solo identical to SWF. That would be impossible without giving major buffs to SWF as well. But, there shouldn't be a massive gap between solo and SWF to the point where we realistically can't balance the game.
In its current state, if we balance the game around SWF, Solos will be left in the dust. If we balance around Solo, SWF will be even more OP.
And all those nice changes to help solo survivors would end up giving killers the shaft, once more. As I said, catering to survivors' wishes.
I'm not saying they're bad suggestions, but the suggestions that always come around of making everything basekit when they could just make a few tweaks and changes to the existing perks, or making new ones for that, are a bit overdone.
I love the changes to kindred. That's the way they should implement changes to help solo survivors, not making kindred basekit.
Okay, allow me to explain the goal better then. Bring solos to near-SWF level. Why? So it's easier to find a point to balance around. If solos get buffed, without SWF getting buffs, they'll be around the same power level and we can balance around that, meaning buffs for the killer side.
We can fix huge maps and buff weaker killers without worrying solos becoming even weaker.
Nothing I suggested makes any perk effects basekit, except arguably TOTH (which is more of a side thing than the actual effect of the perk).
Oh I understand the goal. I just think some of these ideas aren't the way to go.
I like seeing what the others are bringing in lobbies. But you could also just use the chat, that's a way of asking what the others are using. And as a side effect to seeing what everyone's bringing, the people doing the no mither challenges will get screwed because no one wants to play with randos using that perk.
Seeing keys better in the lobby would be good, I agree sometimes they're harder to see depending on which spot in the lobby the survivor is standing and the character itself, some hold them more obviously than others.. If no one has a key in the lobby but someone finds one in a chest and the killer notices it in the survivor's hand, he sure as hell won't ask the survivor what rarity it is, you're carrying a key, you're going down. Why would it be different in lobbies? (using keys as an example because that's the one item you use most to defend that idea)
As for totems, I said what I thought about it, they should give Small Game the Kindred treatment and add totem counter to it.
There's not enough time in the pre-lobby chat to effectively communicate to each other what everyone is using, especially if some of the survivors are AFK in the lobby.
I see No Mither gamers as particularly confident in their looping skills. The only survivors who would lobby dodge No Mither would be the same survivors who would DC when they see it in the game (or if they see a mori, if they don't like the map/killer, etc.).
Also, if you find a broken key in a chest, it's a useless item anyway and you shouldn't pick it up. The only exception is if you're using Ace in the Hole, but at that point you're probably searching multiple chests and will likely find a much better item.
Plenty of time to chat if people are paying attention (which, honestly, I'm guilty of not doing, I often just wait for the game to start loading before paying attention to the game again) and most of the time people just use it to play around, or to tell others they're bringing party streamers or something.
Having to look at everyone's loadout manually would take the same time as asking them to tell you what they're bringing.. and honestly,if you're going to start caring so much about what other randos are bringing, maybe you need to find a group of people to play with. I know I sure as hell don't care what my friends bring when I play with them, unless one of them is bringing a party streamer or a key, but it's common courtesy to let others know, which is easy to do in chat "hey guys I'm bringing a purple key if someone finds hatch or I die first"
And yeah, whenever I find a green key I definitely don't carry it with me, or at least only long enough to give it to someone else unless it has add-ons attached to it.
People mainly use it to talk about offerings because that's all they have time for.
Looking at the other loadouts would be much, much quicker than asking each survivor and waiting on a response. Most perks you should be able to recognize at a glance once you have a decent level of experience with the game. Again, you also wouldn't have to hope that the survivor isn't AFK. If they take too long to respond, you get no information.
Those changes should be nice, indeed.
I second the OP.