StarMoral
StarMoral
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830580#Comment_830580
If we balanced around all ranks, we have people tell us that we needed to balance around good players. If we balance around good players, we have people tell us that we need to balance around all ranks. We try to be as fair as possible when it comes to balancing, but there's so many different skill levels out there that it's not possible to make it perfect for everyone every time.
If you were to balance her around low ranks (16-20), for example, we would have needed to buff her. I don't think I need to go into details of how ridiculous that would be for high level players. The Nurse has been considered one of the harder killers to play for a long time. The audience for her is not casual players.
Eh, balancing around all ranks is a pipe dream, and all near impossible for most developers.
Let's take Overwatch into example. Bastion. He is a nightmare for newer/lower ranked players. However, the more the players adapted, Bastion became so little a threat that he was hardly even played in Quick Play, even after his changes. How could such an oppressive force turn into a literal stack of walking legos in just a few ranks? Player Skill.
High rank players of EVERY side should have influence in game balance as they took the time to understand the game to its core. If a lower skilled player is upset with how things are... I hate to use this meme unironically, but they gotta GIT GUD. This is a competitive game, the ranking system wouldn't exist if it wasn't. The point of the game is to compete, and if they can't, they have to learn. And yes, that does mean through trial and error if they don't do the research. The point of the game is to grow, so why is balance being targeted toward people who haven't grown yet?
Emphasis on YET.
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@Volfawott said:
The reason why nurse tend to have such a low rate is typically because there is a vast difference between a good nurse and a baby nurse.
Even somebody who's the new on Killers like Hag Trapper and Billy would still be able to at least get some kills. Somebody who is new on nurse will have trouble downing a single survivor let alone killing them
Hitting* Not downing friend
:^)))
Lol but really, wholeheartedly agree. My nurse play is ATROCIOUS.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/829491#Comment_829491
So, by that logic, you nerfed her across all ranks and all platforms simply because of 4 survivor ranks on PC?
How exactly then can we believe that you CAN balance for all 4 (about to be 6) platforms when you openly admit that you changed the nurse specifically for 4 ranks on 1 platform?
Furthermore, should the rest of us non-PC non-red rank survivors then not even bother with performance complaints and balance concerns, since only red rank survivor stats are Paramount?
Ironically, PC red-rank survivor stats only seem to matter when if comes to bringing a killer down, instead of buffing weak killers and/or balancing perks, items, and maps for both sides.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830537#Comment_830537
The purple insta-heal is useless against stealth killers
Sure.
I'll be generous, 5 (Ghostface, Crouching Pig, Invisible Wraith, Scratched Mirror Myers, and Sleep World Freddy) don't trigger Septic Agent thanks to their lack of TR.
Only 3 (Ghostface, Freddy, Myers) again being generous, can attack with no terror radius.
And only 1 (Myers) has no terror radius whatsoever, at the cost of add-on slots and lunge range.
The other 12 killers are still equally as effected with Septic as they were before the change. Nevermind the buffs the medkits got in compensation to the instaheal nerfs.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830519#Comment_830519
It is a insta-heal nerf, that is like me saying that nurse was a survivor buff.
Wha... What are you talking about?
Genuinely, how did you go from instaheal nerfs to stealth killers, and back to instaheals?
I genuinely want to know the connection because I cannot see the connection with these topics to survivor nerfs.
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Let's be honest, they're likely advertising a Spirit rework/overhaul.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830253#Comment_830253
I haven’t been R20 in awhile, enlighten me please. :)
I mean I wouldn't know. Last time I got a 2k I depipped. That was last night.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830249#Comment_830249
You forget about stealth killers.
That's not a survivor nerf. That's a killer buff.
Not even buff, QoL change so that stealth killers... Stay stealthy?
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@fluffymareep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/830268#Comment_830268
If they were to buff base killer, they would need to weaken the very strong ones. I think they're trying to make all the killers basically equal, but different.
That's not necessarily true. Again you have to find out what makes the strong killers strong and what makes the weak killers weak, and balance around that so it gives every killer a sense of power (as the power role should) and a sense of balance. Good example, Map Pressure. Nurse and Spirit are very good at applying map pressure with their high movement, while killers like Bubba and Pig suffer from little map pressure.
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@ArrowTheGreat11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/826886#Comment_826886
Spirit has zero counterplay. Killer mains love her because of this which is why they don’t want her nerfed. Plain and simple
This is so fun. All of this is apparently definite and 100% true , not just a bunch of crying for the sake of "having your fun", disregarding the killer AND survivors' idea of fun and balance.
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@fluffymareep said:
It's possible they may be nerfing the strongest killers to give a buff to base killer. I know a lot of people suggested that.
Problem is we haven't heard practically anything when it comes to buffing base killer. If they are trying to do so, they should really recognize why the strong killers are strong and use those tips for the others.
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@GrootDude said:
I rarely de-pip from getting a 2k
Must be fun being in rank 20.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/827689#Comment_827689
Insta-heals got nerfed really recently
Really, only the pink syringe got nerfed. Purple essentially does the same thing.
Plus medkits got buffed to heal even faster now, so...
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@Peanits Genuine question, are DC's considered Kills/Sacrifices in the overall killer stats?
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We should repeat this to the heavens:
You can double pip, even if you die. (Give or take depending on rank) While the end objective is to survive, the pipping system dictates you do other things.
That's why 20 second gen games end with EVERYONE losing a pip. Nobody gains enough points to do anything.
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Man you guys have gone nutso since the last time I went on the forums :o
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@Alphaphalt said:
No.
Lovin' the involvement.
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@Avariku said:
first. yes, those stats are old and Spirit has had no changes since then (that I'm aware of), but there have been a number of survivor changes which likely increased her kill ratio.
second, I whole-heartedly agree that the devs should make more of an effort to provide the community with more reliable updates and statistics to help us see where's they're coming from.
and third, this isn't a killer vs survivor competition thread, please quit whining about the imaginary challenges killers face... survivor and killer both have their pros and cons, killer isn't some poor abused little creature... go play f13 jason if you want to play the victim game.
1. I actually do wonder what survivor changes were made. Was this before or after DS changes? I'm pretty sure it was before Ash.
2. We really do need information so that proper discussion can be had. Again, we inly really have anecdotal evidence to go after.
3. Most certainly not, and anyone who tried to make it such I politely ask to STFU. Hell, this isn't even a full defense of Spirit and Nurse, because I used old data. If the data now justifies the changes, do be it. If anything, this post is more about wanting more information and stats from the devs. Hopefully they will deliver.
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@Fibijean said:
That data is over 7 months old. Spirit may not have become an issue until recently. And Nurse changes were not made on the basis of her killrate.
Also, they said in the latest stream that they were thinking of doing another one of those statistical posts soon, so we have that to look forward to.
That is true, I even mentioned that the data was old. But Spirit has recieved no changes since then. That's honestly why I wanna see the devs do more statistics.
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@Blueberry said:
I think calling it "pulled off perfectly" is a bit of a stretch. Nothing was pulled off at all, survivors just got lazy.
As the nature of NoED. Benefits from Survivor laziness.
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@CrtKazz said:
The new legion cosmetics are amazing. I hope I freak people out when I come around the corner all glow in the dark ?
I usually see survivors notice me and panic run.
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DCing as Legion against people seven ranks higher than me.
At that point, it's a political movement. I'm not proud of it, but my rank 11 ass shouldn't be up against no red ranks.
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4, cause I've been killin Liches in Warframe.
Plus Dedicated Servers have made things just that little more buggy... To the point of "What in the ######### am I looking at?"
(Really, I had a Hag game where I downed a survivor unhooking another person, and the unhooked guy just floated down and ran off)
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My opinion summed up in one word:
"Unemployment"
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"Yea and you have total lack of knowledge if NOED is in play. The difference between NOED and current obsession DS is that there is a tell there is DEFINITELY no DS in play. NOED has no such tell so you always have to spend time destroying totems or risk getting one shot at end game."
Again, it's much more beneficial to destroy totems. Plus, not to mention, DS is incredibly more popular than NoED. You will see more instances of DS than Noed in ANY game.
"And free tunneling is healthy? I don't see your point. I would rather be slugged 50 times in one game than tunneled off the hook. Pretty sure any survivor worth their salt would agree."
Maybe run DS to eliminate that "free tunnel" then.
"As far as deactivating DS when you hook someone else, that is an entirely different discussion, but I completely disagree with this mentality. If you are NOT tunneling and still get hit with DS chances are good the survivor let you catch them on purpose. You didn't actually outplay them or catch them legit, they forced you to catch them. Like it's really not much to think a bit about the situation and slug the guy. Chances are they only have a short time left if you took an entire new chase before going after them again. Just leave them on the ground, kick some gens/pallets and then take the hook. It's not that big of an issue."
You cannot be serious. You complain about the issue of tunneling this entire page, yet you justify the killer getting punished after doing his job without tunneling. So what is it? Do you want the killer to not tunnel, or do you not want the killer to kill TOO quickly? Because with what you have just stated, you seem to be in favor of the latter.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/822011#Comment_822011
Again, you dont have to slug. Just dont go for the unhooked person - go for the unhooker. Something I find quite useful is MYC. You can use the timer to know when DS will be run out and it will also encourage you to go after the unhooker more! Enjoy!
And if the unhooker still has DS? What then?
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821953#Comment_821953
Well that's the point. The obsession is there to deter the killer from tunneling because they will have to assume there is a DS in play. And I wouldn't call it a "buff" to DS. It's a buff to survivors that play WITHOUT DS. Solo players would indeed benefit because no they are less likely to be tunneled, which in solo play is a major issue. If you are in SWF you can coordinate to avoid tunneling, but in solo you don't have that luxury.
No no no, this stems from a total lack of knowledge about going against DS.
This is not even a buff to solo players, as your post suggests, it's a buff to people who, in your words, "Don't Have DS".
Remember, the 60 second timer doesn't stop if the killer goes and hooks another person, it keeps going.
Lemme tell you a story:
I was playing Hag one day and I was doing quite well. I downed three people, hooked them all. All three are freed, I down all of them very soon after... I proceed to get hit with 3 consecutive DS's, even after slugging all of them. Not tunneling, clearly downing them to go for other people. I still got hit.
My only solution was to wait longer for the "anti-tunnel" perk to deactivate, even though I clearly did not tunnel anybody? No.
Now imagine that every game, regardless of ANY obsession perks within the lobby. Constant slugging and momentum breaking for both sides because Obsession status is baseline. That doesn't sound like a healthy playstyle.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821979#Comment_821979
Then dont wait for DS? Dont tunnel? Or just slug them and go for the unhooker?
Can you clarify your first line? Yes noed is still a perk? So is DS?
That's what slows down the progress. Slugging. Most people who get hit by DS don't necessarily tunnel. Going for the unhooker would have to mean you were at the hook when the DS user was hooked. That's a beneficial moment, because then you down the DS, go for the unhook, then continue on. It normally doesn't go like that.
DS is a perk that benefits of any instance of Obsession status on any player. If Obsession is baseline, regardless of Obsession perks, then the comparison between NoED is void. Because then it's not a comparison between perks, it's game mechanics compared to a perk.
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When I play killer (rank 11-10): Three rank 6's, close to pipping into Red ranks... And a rank 18.
When I play survivor (rank 13-12): two rank 18's and another 12, versus a rank 15.
TLDR: It's #########.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821953#Comment_821953
Would that not make it the equivalent of NOED? You cant tell if the killer has it so you always have to play like they do and cleanse totems in the event its in play.
No. And Noed is still a perk.
If anything, that's how it currently works now. Since DS is an obsession perk, just seeing the Obsession symbol means no survivors can be trusted. Neck the killer himself can screw this up because of his own obsession perks.
Plus, doing totems grants an insane amount of Boldness points, while waiting for DS... Slows your progress down.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821947#Comment_821947
I started as a Jake main (Kate main now) and have been using Iron Will since I started playing the game. I've gone through periods where I stop using it, but I always end up circling back around to it. It's such a great perk.
Same with half the stuff in my build.
I haven't played without an exhaustion perk since I was around rank 18 and had 20 hours on the game. I've even had builds that had both Lithe and Balanced.
I switched Self Care with Bond constantly, but recently I think they work very well together.
I used to run DS, but I would always run the timer out, so ultimately it's kinda pointless. The killer can't tunnel ya if they can't find ya!
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Short answer:
Learn loops, and stay vigilant. Only cleanse when you HAVE to.
Always look out for Plague when you're sick, and be sure you can out manuever her. Stealth will not help, your coughing and vomiting will be heard easily. If you really need to cleanse, do so in corners of the map and/or by finished gens.
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This would be an indirect buff to DS since the simple presence of the Obsession can cause the killer to act as if people have it.
No survivors even need to have DS to benefit from it, they just need an obsession.
And believe me, this is nowhere near a buff for SOLO players.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/821923#Comment_821923
IKR
It's like no one ever tries to be stealthy. And some act like it's impossible. It's really not. Dodging BBQ/Nurse's is so easy for me at this point I don't even think about it anymore. Discordance is easy to avoid once you realize the killer has it. Spine Chill beats every aura read add-on killers have, including SM Myers now. But no one wants to acknowledge that stealth is indeed effective. Maybe they just aren't good at doing it, which is fine, but just because you aren't good at it doesn't mean it's not a good tactic. I've lost games as killer (Spirit too) specifically because of super stealthy players.
Lol I play Jeff, that mofo is fat, tall, and loud... And I'm able to stealth around quite easy. Yes, knowing how to loop helps, but if you can avoid getting into a chase, DO IT.
I've been running Iron Will ever since the last time it was in the Shrine, and even then I was running Urban.
If I recall, my build right now is Iron Will, Bond, Self Care, and either Balanced/Lithe. Iron Will for stealth, Bond for reconnaissance with both Survivors and Killer, Self Care for when I can't be bothered to spend more time finding somebody than healing, and Balanced/Lithe for chases.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
In all fairness, Ghost Face is somewhat of a pain right now to play against.
I don't know what it is, but the detection sensitivity for his night shroud is busted. I've literally been right behind him staring with my screen centered, and he still did not get revealed. My detection didn't even trigger, it was like he was immune.
So, I can understand why survivors don't like GF. Although, Haddonfield and BL are scummy tactics. I don't feel bad for those survivors.
Two words
DEDICATED SERVEES
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Let's be honest, MoM legitimately needed it. Free Endurance for getting hit is not balanced whatsoever. The people who got mad at it changing were those who jist wanted easy wins.
Everything else, yeah the community was split.
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@thesuicidefox said:
My favorite part about the "perks are not counter play" argument is that they ignore the absolute devastation Iron Will and Spine Chill can have on the Spirit. Like sure, without perks it is significantly harder to counter her, but WITH these perks it is actually super easy to counter her. To the point it's almost a joke. These perks crush her so hard, I don't see how you can just ignore this. Not to mention, both Iron Will and Spine Chill are strong perks against ANY killer. So anyone making the claim "I shouldn't have to use 1 of 60 perks to counter a killer" again ignore the fact these perks are great against any killer. The only killers where Iron Will won't help are Plague (because you cry in pain when sick regardless) and Doc (because you will scream revealing your position anyway). If these perks weren't strong against nearly the entire killer roster they might have a point, but since they are and since they dominate killers like the Spirit so much I find it intellectually dishonest to just dismiss them as counter play options.
Know what I do when I run across a lot of Docs or killers using Infectious Fright? Yep I put on Calm Spirit. I have no issue with this at all because of how hard this perk counters Doc too. If it can sway the game that hard, it is indeed a valid counter play option.
What's funny too is that Iron Will and Spine chill are amazing against ANY killer.
The only reason people don't use them is that they benefit stealth play, which apparently is bad... For some reason.
???
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Freddy's probably next on their radar. Can't have a killer that can slow the game down to his advantage, nonononono, that's just boring.
Now excuse me while I play hide and seek with survivors on Rotten Fields.
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Is it a mantra if it's true?
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@aazimuth said:
Ironic because the majority of the forums are full of entitled killer mains that ask for nerfs on every single thing survivors have but go off.
Hence my post:
"*gasp* You mean asking for nerfs on stronger things is detrimental, compared to asking for buffs to weaker things? NO WAY! It's almost like people are trying to do things that way, but get screamed out by people who want easy wins! :D"
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@CantDrownIfASiren said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/818244#Comment_818244
The first hit doesn't do anything? What? Injuring survivors equals "nothing"??
no wonder killers complain about everything.
One man: *says something stupid*
You: EVERY KILLER THINKS THIS WAY.
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@VincentRedfield said:
Killer mains already dug their own grave. "Nerf pallets, windows, medkits, toolkits, exhaustion... Wait why are there not enough survivor players?"
1. Lol that's rich
2. *gasp* You mean asking for nerfs on stronger things is detrimental, compared to asking for buffs to weaker things? NO WAY! It's almost like people are trying to do things that way, but get screamed out by people who want easy wins! :D
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This is so sad.
Siri, play "Nurse Custom Chase Music".
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And before y'all start rage typing, it's a freakin joke.
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@Kebek said:
Just wait for the full release of servers so that we can FINALLY get harsher punishments for quitters.
You know, when they get released in 2065 :D
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/816782#Comment_816782
Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that data pre-nerf?
Ihonestly fotget, and if it really is, then a buff is long LONG overdue.
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@ArksnaVixone said:
We need back the hair physics of all the survivors, when ghostface was release for some reason they remove all the survivor hair physics and looks like plastic.
Honestly, the new hair may look a little homely, but the old hair used to bug out by flying all over the place, alerting the killer of your location because your split ends decided to take a trip to China and back.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/816662#Comment_816662
No, just that a large amount of people play Nurse only because she's the strongest thing in the game. Look at any competitive game, if something is considered strong it has a cult following that will drop it the second it's nerfed.
If you've ever heard of the Johnny/Timmy/Spike theory, Nurse players (and Spirit really) are largely Spikes.
This argument can still be made toward stacked sfw comms. Only it goes a step further, being a loophole around an intentional design of the game, being that you have little to no communication. Heck, you're technically not even in a team, just a group.
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@Mochan said:
Matchmaking was never fixed, so it can't be ruined.
That's... That's true. Can't break what's already broken, but you can sure as hell stomp it to even tinier pieces.
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@HeroLives said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/816786#Comment_816786
It might not be the worst of open comms. I solo mostly ,and for good reason.
I've legitimately had people make the argument that comms shouldn't be implimented because they dont want to deal with people who cant control their temper.