Rebel_Raven
Rebel_Raven
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@Carpemortum said:
Rebel_Raven said:@Carpemortum said:
Rebel_Raven said:
@Carpemortum said: Rebel_Raven said:
If I can't detect and/or dodge SWFs, I'm going full survivor main, aside from rituals, until the majority of SWFs I run into get the hooks out of their asses, and stop trying for ultra efficient gen rushes, being toxic, and BM, and generally intent on making sure I don't have fun, and/or I get compensated for the difficulty spike.
I suspect I'm going full survivor main for a while since I have low expectations on them upsetting the survivors by doing anything concerning SWFs except make it easier for them to get matches. Killers can probably go screw themselves.
I'll figure out how to detect SWFs again if needed. If survivors that aren't SWF get dodged, I'm not bothered. No, I don't have fun with the difficulty spike, them getting an easier game while they make mine harder, them getting free perks if not breaking the game, and so forth. I didn't sign on to fight coordinated teams. The game isn't balanced for it. It's not worth the effort. The only person who controls your fun is you. Dont let it get to you. Take it as a challenge and get better. Not every game has to be hard or easy to be fun. It's a game. If you want an easy game, try civilization? I hear Its great. Secondly, you didnt sign on for anything other than an asymmetrical horror pvp game. 1v4 whether doorknob survivors you can straight line chase or well coordinated swf, is asymmetrical.
Also, saying that if non swf get dodged, you're not bothered, literally says you dont care if someones alone or swf, it sucks to be them, because you only want solo games? Yeah, and I listed what I don't find fun. People casually getting together to curbstomp me isn't my idea of fun. It's akin to if the game had a survivor that was helping the killer out by telling them where the other survivors are, and actively sandbagging them so the killer wins. The game isn't balanced for that sort of thing, because this game isn't balanced for that level of communication at all, be it between survivors, or survivor and killer. And I signed up for an anti-social multiplayer game because of this excerpt from an interview: "It’s anti-social multiplayer where survivors have to collaborate and cooperate up to a certain point. The old saying is that you don’t need to be fast than the killer, you just need to be faster than your friends. Whereas the people playing as the killer, they just need to straight up murder everyone. Read more at https://www.mmorpg.com/dead-by-daylight/interviews/dead-by-daylight-twitchcon-2018-interview-1000013188#zDDyuobkIwyroQCc.99 " SWFs are very social, you see. Goes against what the spirit of the game is. So, yeah. I want to vs 4 strangers. If they win, they win. If they die they die. I don't care. I don't care if they're on par with Monto, Noob3, HybridPanda, or any other streamer so long as they're not communicating. People get what they give. I'm not seeing survivors, solo or otherwise generally doing much of anything to make sure the killer gets a fair shake, or fun, nor do they generally play that way. That said, I don't care much if solos get caught in the crossfire, and I'm prepared to suffer the same because I -only- solo. Gives me some satisfaction that the worst a killer gets from the lobby is me, and an Ed, Edd, and Eddy. If you've followed my posting habbits, I generally don't complain about much, but I'll stand up for killers, and survivors alike to an extent.
You picked up the game because of an interview held during the halloween event? I call bull.
I picked it up because it was free.
HOWEVER!
I -hate- PVP with a burning passion so I didn't play it immediately because, obviously it's all PVP.
Also I watched some early early play and it was way different, and didn't appeal so much.
I researched more. I found the interview, and yes, that was what gave me momentum to play the game.
Most PVP is heavily team based, and I hadn't played much in the way of asymmetrical games.
Anti-social? Interesting!
Hey, I'm not going to be expected to talk to anyone!
I'm not going to be expected to be a part of a social team which will generally demand me go along with meta!
They can't [BAD WORD] tell me how to play because we can't communicate! I can play how I want! FREEDOM!!!
Finally! Lets do it!
I started the game, and played my first game as Huntress, and kinda fell in love.
I read up on Min, and saw she was sort of a lone wolf objective do-er, and tried her. I liked survivor, too!
And it was PVP. Blew my mind.
The rest is history.
But they cant make you play any way. You can still play solo. Other people may play with friends but if you're a killer it doesnt matter, food is food. Yeah it may be harder, but is every game expected to be easy? That would defeat the purpose.
No, they can't make me play any way but they certainly can ######### at me until I do. I didn't realize there was so much secrecy in the game, so I figured if i popped up with perks they didn't like, and they could see it (People DC when they see people with no-mither, for instance) they could bother me to change perks.
I only play solo, but in a lot of other PVP/Social games it doesn't mean people can't contact you.
Also because this game is geared towards 4 strangers it means I'm not relying on them as heavily, nor are they on me.
Survivors have enough power to basically run what ever they want, and can contribute, but still kinda need the rest. There's no ultra optimal loadout needed to survive.
Hell, some of the first vids I seriously watched was Achievement Hunter and they regularly played perkless.There's a huge difference between the game being harder, and:
Survivors knowing where you are at all times
Body blocking the hell out of you as if they anticipated where you are (If I wanted to see the tops of your heads, I'll unzip my pants, you bastards!)
Organizing multiperson flashlight saves (One treis to blind, another body blocks)
Taking hits for each other expertly (injured people running to the gate with healthy people shielding them, all of them together)
Expert level rescues (organized hook swarms with body blocking)
Dying quick to scout perks.You know, stuff like that, and more that you basically never see 4 randoms do because they can't communicate well enough, or give enough of a damn about one another to work together that damn well.
The way I see it, it's supposed to be like herding cats to get the other 3 people do do what you want, but you all generally work towards a common goal. Chaos. Doesn't consistently make the game harder as a killer, or survivor.
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@Carpemortum said:
Rebel_Raven said:@Carpemortum said:
Rebel_Raven said:
If I can't detect and/or dodge SWFs, I'm going full survivor main, aside from rituals, until the majority of SWFs I run into get the hooks out of their asses, and stop trying for ultra efficient gen rushes, being toxic, and BM, and generally intent on making sure I don't have fun, and/or I get compensated for the difficulty spike.
I suspect I'm going full survivor main for a while since I have low expectations on them upsetting the survivors by doing anything concerning SWFs except make it easier for them to get matches. Killers can probably go screw themselves.
I'll figure out how to detect SWFs again if needed. If survivors that aren't SWF get dodged, I'm not bothered. No, I don't have fun with the difficulty spike, them getting an easier game while they make mine harder, them getting free perks if not breaking the game, and so forth. I didn't sign on to fight coordinated teams. The game isn't balanced for it. It's not worth the effort. The only person who controls your fun is you. Dont let it get to you. Take it as a challenge and get better. Not every game has to be hard or easy to be fun. It's a game. If you want an easy game, try civilization? I hear Its great. Secondly, you didnt sign on for anything other than an asymmetrical horror pvp game. 1v4 whether doorknob survivors you can straight line chase or well coordinated swf, is asymmetrical.
Also, saying that if non swf get dodged, you're not bothered, literally says you dont care if someones alone or swf, it sucks to be them, because you only want solo games?
Yeah, and I listed what I don't find fun.
People casually getting together to curbstomp me isn't my idea of fun.
It's akin to if the game had a survivor that was helping the killer out by telling them where the other survivors are, and actively sandbagging them so the killer wins. The game isn't balanced for that sort of thing, because this game isn't balanced for that level of communication at all, be it between survivors, or survivor and killer.
And I signed up for an anti-social multiplayer game because of this excerpt from an interview:
"It’s anti-social multiplayer where survivors have to collaborate and cooperate up to a certain point. The old saying is that you don’t need to be fast than the killer, you just need to be faster than your friends. Whereas the people playing as the killer, they just need to straight up murder everyone.
Read more at https://www.mmorpg.com/dead-by-daylight/interviews/dead-by-daylight-twitchcon-2018-interview-1000013188#zDDyuobkIwyroQCc.99 "
SWFs are very social, you see. Goes against what the spirit of the game is.
So, yeah. I want to vs 4 strangers. If they win, they win. If they die they die. I don't care. I don't care if they're on par with Monto, Noob3, HybridPanda, or any other streamer so long as they're not communicating.
People get what they give. I'm not seeing survivors, solo or otherwise generally doing much of anything to make sure the killer gets a fair shake, or fun, nor do they generally play that way. That said, I don't care much if solos get caught in the crossfire, and I'm prepared to suffer the same because I -only- solo.
Gives me some satisfaction that the worst a killer gets from the lobby is me, and an Ed, Edd, and Eddy.
If you've followed my posting habbits, I generally don't complain about much, but I'll stand up for killers, and survivors alike to an extent.
You picked up the game because of an interview held during the halloween event? I call bull.
I picked it up because it was free.
HOWEVER!
I -hate- PVP with a burning passion so I didn't play it immediately because, obviously it's all PVP.
Also I watched some early early play and it was way different, and didn't appeal so much.I researched more. I found the interview, and yes, that was what gave me momentum to play the game.
Most PVP is heavily team based, and I hadn't played much in the way of asymmetrical games.
Anti-social? Interesting!
Hey, I'm not going to be expected to talk to anyone!
I'm not going to be expected to be a part of a social team which will generally demand me go along with meta!
They can't ######### tell me how to play because we can't communicate! I can play how I want! FREEDOM!!!
Finally! Lets do it!I started the game, and played my first game as Huntress, and kinda fell in love.
I read up on Min, and saw she was sort of a lone wolf objective do-er, and tried her. I liked survivor, too!
And it was PVP. Blew my mind.
The rest is history. -
It's tilting heavily towards survivor favored now that the new match making system supposedly camouflages SWFS better, and is going to make them harder to dodge.
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@Avariku said:
just seems a bit one-sided is all... as though taking the time to break totems (something I don't mind doing, but get irritated cause I'm usually the only one) should be a given, survivors shouldn't have ANY indication as to if they have succeeded yet or not, thus potentially wasting even more time looking for a totem that doesn't exist... and now you want those same totems to respawn? seems like a bit much.Survivors get a break with this perk. It's not like the hex totems are unbreakable. They get time to get things done while the totems regenerate. Not do a full generator's worth of time, or such, but time.
The totems don't change spawns, exactly, so much as possibly swap places with another totem at best. It's there to take up a perk spot and help make sure a killer running hex perks doesn't get rendered impotent for what could be the entire trial.
Aside from NOED, and TOTH, and the early stages of Devour Hope survivors will generally know the totem exists because they're afflicted by it. They can go hunt it down when afflicted. There's a good chance they can go straight back to the totem they broke and rebreak it.
All in all, the idea here is to slow the game down some, and let totems that require tokens be more useful since a lot of them, especially token totems can be broken well before they gain any real power. Survivors still spawn directly by them sometimes. Sometimes the totems are out in the open, and super obvious. Worse, still, is that totem spawn locations can get memorized.
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Haunted Grounds doesn't have a thing to do with NOED. NOED requires a dull totem. Haunted Grounds are 2 lit totems. You can completely ignore haunted grounds, and disable NOED.
You can basically ignore all lit totems and disable NOED.
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@Avariku said:
Killers kick and scream over survivors who would like a tally of totems left to cleanse, but this can be suggested and there's no issue?Personally I think this would be way too strong without some serious counterplay. the biggest thing I see with totems that needs to be fixed is the spawn locations.
Because a tally would completely contribute heavily to removing a perk from a killer's arsenal for the rest of the trial because survivors know it still exists, and could get small game to make it even easier. Or use the questionable totem positioning to their advantage. Or both.
Outside of Haunted Grounds, hexes can be made completely useless in moments.Perks are really important, and a perk like this is putting some power back into the hands of the killer instead of taking it from the killer and putting it into the hands of survivors.
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@Carpemortum said:
Rebel_Raven said:If I can't detect and/or dodge SWFs, I'm going full survivor main, aside from rituals, until the majority of SWFs I run into get the hooks out of their asses, and stop trying for ultra efficient gen rushes, being toxic, and BM, and generally intent on making sure I don't have fun, and/or I get compensated for the difficulty spike.
I suspect I'm going full survivor main for a while since I have low expectations on them upsetting the survivors by doing anything concerning SWFs except make it easier for them to get matches. Killers can probably go screw themselves.I'll figure out how to detect SWFs again if needed. If survivors that aren't SWF get dodged, I'm not bothered.
No, I don't have fun with the difficulty spike, them getting an easier game while they make mine harder, them getting free perks if not breaking the game, and so forth.
I didn't sign on to fight coordinated teams. The game isn't balanced for it. It's not worth the effort.
The only person who controls your fun is you. Dont let it get to you. Take it as a challenge and get better. Not every game has to be hard or easy to be fun. It's a game. If you want an easy game, try civilization? I hear Its great.
Secondly, you didnt sign on for anything other than an asymmetrical horror pvp game. 1v4 whether doorknob survivors you can straight line chase or well coordinated swf, is asymmetrical.
Also, saying that if non swf get dodged, you're not bothered, literally says you dont care if someones alone or swf, it sucks to be them, because you only want solo games?
Yeah, and I listed what I don't find fun.
People casually getting together to curbstomp me isn't my idea of fun.
It's akin to if the game had a survivor that was helping the killer out by telling them where the other survivors are, and actively sandbagging them so the killer wins. The game isn't balanced for that sort of thing, because this game isn't balanced for that level of communication at all, be it between survivors, or survivor and killer.And I signed up for an anti-social multiplayer game because of this excerpt from an interview:
"It’s anti-social multiplayer where survivors have to collaborate and cooperate up to a certain point. The old saying is that you don’t need to be fast than the killer, you just need to be faster than your friends. Whereas the people playing as the killer, they just need to straight up murder everyone.
Read more at https://www.mmorpg.com/dead-by-daylight/interviews/dead-by-daylight-twitchcon-2018-interview-1000013188#zDDyuobkIwyroQCc.99 "
SWFs are very social, you see. Goes against what the spirit of the game is.
So, yeah. I want to vs 4 strangers. If they win, they win. If they die they die. I don't care. I don't care if they're on par with Monto, Noob3, HybridPanda, or any other streamer so long as they're not communicating.People get what they give. I'm not seeing survivors, solo or otherwise generally doing much of anything to make sure the killer gets a fair shake, or fun, nor do they generally play that way. That said, I don't care much if solos get caught in the crossfire, and I'm prepared to suffer the same because I -only- solo.
Gives me some satisfaction that the worst a killer gets from the lobby is me, and an Ed, Edd, and Eddy.If you've followed my posting habbits, I generally don't complain about much, but I'll stand up for killers, and survivors alike to an extent.
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If I can't detect and/or dodge SWFs, I'm going full survivor main, aside from rituals, until the majority of SWFs I run into get the hooks out of their asses, and stop trying for ultra efficient gen rushes, being toxic, and BM, and generally intent on making sure I don't have fun, and/or I get compensated for the difficulty spike.
I suspect I'm going full survivor main for a while since I have low expectations on them upsetting the survivors by doing anything concerning SWFs except make it easier for them to get matches. Killers can probably go screw themselves.
I'll figure out how to detect SWFs again if needed. If survivors that aren't SWF get dodged, I'm not bothered.
No, I don't have fun with the difficulty spike, them getting an easier game while they make mine harder, them getting free perks if not breaking the game, and so forth.
I didn't sign on to fight coordinated teams. The game isn't balanced for it. It's not worth the effort. -
Sounds reasonable, but I don't own the clown. His powers do lend well to catching people though.George_Soros said:
I happen to have one: catch and hook one early. Trying that with Clown... mixed results.Rebel_Raven said:In a game where all 5 gens can be done in about 3 minutes without toolboxes, and it's not unusual to see 3 pop in the first minute and a half we need something to ... slow the game down... just a little bit.
Got reasonable alternatives to ruin?
The other is a new favourite: Dying Light, but it almost never works out without a mori, and it obviously encourages hardass playstyle. I don't mind that so much, but one should take it into consideration.
Dying light means the obsession, and finding them , and killing them which is more realistic for me.
Since I'm relying on catching people, thanatophobia sounds like something to have. Injure people along the way. Maybe even slug them while finding the obsession.
Trying to remember perks that would help find an obsession.
But what would really help is disrupting the first minute and a half of the trial when popping 2 or 3 gens at once seems to happen the most.
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I would not complain.
Throwing hatchets over waist high obstacles is unreliable as hell and probably the intent of her hatchets for breaking loops. -
Learn to stay away from the killer. Learn to hide. Killers have terrible vision.
When the match starts, lay low a bit, and wait for someone else to get chased, then go do stuff. Stay away from the chase.
Keep at it, and eventually it will become faster and more intuitive. You will become one with the fog, and the killer will be lucky to remember what character you are.
Of course, you should always be doing gens, or totems during this time to help ensure you, and others can get out.
Keep an exhaustion perk. Sprint burst, lithe, balanced landing, or dead hard.
I like Lithe. It's controllable, and delivers good results and has numerous places to use it. You can run without burning sprint burst, you can use it more places than balanced landing.
Add in Dance With Me, and light weight and your evasive ability goes up.
I've had a lot of less persistent killers flat out give up on chasing me.
Urban evasion is a nice perk to have.
Also winning is a little more subjective than exiting.
You can be an excellent distraction and buy time for everyone else, and walk out with a lot of points even if you get sacrificed.
Taking one for the team isn't shameful, imo. If you are the only sacrifice and 3 others made it out, you did good, imo.
It's all about the points.
Of course if you must get chased, then play killer, and chase people around. Learn from what they do to lose you. The better you are in a chase and mind games, the more you will see, and possibly pick up on to use as a survivor. -
No. I like being able to swap perks between Min, and Claudette and maybe mess with people when Claudette becomes a gen jockey, and Min goes white mage.
Sooner or later those passives will also become meta, and you'll be expected to run certain perks on them to make the most of them. -
In a game where all 5 gens can be done in about 3 minutes without toolboxes, and it's not unusual to see 3 pop in the first minute and a half we need something to ... slow the game down... just a little bit.
Got reasonable alternatives to ruin?
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... giggity.George_Soros said:NotQueen ties them to a pole and... you get the picture.
Wait, I don't think I have the same picture. -
Time for what?akbays35 said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Seems like a hatch standoff with extra steps.The killer camps the totem. It's a hatch standoff before the hatch standoff.
If all totems are broken, there's a hatch standoff.
the extra steps can buy you time, how many games where a hatch standoff occurs when all the totems are broken?
A hatch standoff is where the survivor wants to use the hatch, but can't because the killer is on it.
The killer can't swing because the survivor can power through. The killer can't grab until the survivor tries to jump in.
The survivor cannot jump in because the killer is guarding the hatch.
Thus a vicious cycle begins.
This is survivor wants the totem broken. Can't because killer is guarding it.
Killer doesn't want totem broken. Killer guards totem. -
Seems like a hatch standoff with extra steps.
The killer camps the totem. It's a hatch standoff before the hatch standoff.
If all totems are broken, there's a hatch standoff.
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Huntress in a bikini. Super scary. Make it happen. Scare me bad plz.
Spirit in a thong. The horror. Please make it happen.
Nurse in a tight 70s swim suit. I need the scares.
Pig in a wet suit. OHNOES!
<.<
Myers, and trapper in chippendales outfits. The horror. The horror! -
I am a sentimental kinda person. It would be nice if event/seasonal stuff carried over through prestige.
I like souvenirs.
Not prestiging is kinda punishing. It seems like every blood web is max size. -
How does Huntress figure into this? Aside from Thrill of the hunt which doesn't factor in anymore once destroyed, iirc.only1biggs said:Just play well with Billy/Nurse/Huntress/Spirit and you'll get more points faster than doing some farm build.
And Thrill of the hunt has potential to be taught to other killers.
I think the only way she gets points outside the norm is with hatchet hits. -
Well, the tips people might want from reading in this thread are sorta useless in other threads.powerbats said:@Rebel_Raven said:
How is saying " you need to improve and stop focusing on the bad matches while ignoring your good ones" not "git gud?" I mean it's a nicer way of saying it, but it's the same thing in essence. Vague requests that one improve their skills with not much at all in how to improve against that scenario.
2 out of 30 matches where you run into the hyper efficient gen rush? My god, I'm glad I dodge now. You see them way more than I thought.
I don't have time to go back, and pour over my games, damnit all. I have a job that keeps me working a lot, and keeps me wore out, and the lobby times aren't all that helpful. I barely have time to play, period.
Seriously, how much free time do you have? Do you stream for a living?Again, I'm not trying to be mean, but being told I have to improve isn't helpful at all. Nevermind the fact that part of improving is blood points, and getting genrushed for a 5 minute trial isn't going to net many blood points.
The fact it can happen even without toolboxes means it can happen any time. There is no bracing for it.I mean one chase can last long enough for the other 3 to get to a gen, and power through them, leaving only 2 to do, which means they can spare people.
I provided plenty of good tips in other threads that you said were good now you're saying I haven't given any.
The 2 out of 30 matches was in response to someone else using that stat, I don't run into it that often.
Ok but if you can remember the bad times you should remember the good times as well is what I'm saying since you can obviously remember getting stomped despite being tired. IF you can remember the one then you can remember the other one as well and take what worked in those good matches with you.
I'm retired due to a work injury now and no I don't stream but my attitude on gaming hasn't changed in over 3o plus years.
If you're getting gen rushed and having bp issues drop a offering that works for you, don't go for the sacrifice one but go for either Deviousness or Brutality. For the 3k you spend on those you'll easily double or even triple that even on short matches.
For improvement watch videos as you said but don't watch the pro's or high end streamers, watch the lower skilled players to see how they do at your skill level. If you're playing around rank 15 as an example watch someone that plays around that level.
If you're going to main Leatherface you're going to get wrecked until you vastly improve, there's just no getting around that. He can have great map pressure but only if played wisely since going to the extreme end to go after 1 gen can be a waste of time.
BBQ is good but also Whispers ocne you know how to use it, Bitter Murmur and or Tinkerer are also good. Avoid using Ruin until you get much better with him since it's basically a wasted perk otherwise.
For chases try changing your mouse sensitivity and see how that feels, try it out in kyf and find out what's the most comfortable. Learn the maps and what pallets are safe for survivors and which ones are basically a death trap.
You need to know where the great looping spots are and steer the survivor away from those in a chase, cut their angle off and get them to where you want to them to be.
When you damage a gen you can check the area to see if someones around and then when you move away turn around about 10-15 meters away and run backwards.
Quite often you'll see someone sneaking back to that same gen, especially if it's almost done and observe which survivors get married to which gens. Because more often than not even though you're in the area they'll go back to that same gen.
if you're chasing someone and another person runs right at you with a flashlight or bright clothes they want to get chased. Listen for footstep and when you do a pick up fake it sometimes and also turn around right away to bait the flashlight.
Those are just some of the hints you can use.
Still, I'm not sure how one applies necessary map pressure to stop the full blown gen rush when playing, say, the Pig, or Huntress, Doctor, etc.
Heck, I watch people do it to Billies, and Nurses, even, so even being able to cover the map, and one hit down doesn't seem to work well to stop it.
I'm talking about the gen rushes where 3 gens pop in the first minute and a half, and the last 2 pop in the second minute and a half. No toolboxes on at least some people, so it isn't obvious that it will happen.
I mean the game is just warming up. You make the usual first chase and it seems like the first and last mistake you can make in the game. -
A few more points, because they can, and probably to taunt some. The gate room is absurdly safe, so why would they hurry when they want their chaseout?
Unless there is some potential need for them to pull a rescue, that is. Then they're probably healing to go do that. -
@powerbats said:
I've watched plenty of videos you seem to be fixated though on not taking any information that's helpful. I never once used Ruin ever with Spirit and still very rarely had those 3 minute gen games you're complaining of.I've played Trapper, Pig, Myers extensively and never really had that issue except for when BNP hadn't been nerfed or I just played horribly. I also do remember what it's like to face that, I just don't make any excuses and I learn from my mistakes.
I've played both sides and used what I learned while playing survivor, how the good killers played and how the good survivors played. I took that knowledge to make myself a better player on both sides and yet I've till got lots to learn.
I still make mistakes on both sides but i use those as learning opportunities and now i make less mistakes of the most glaring type. I'm not basically saying git gud, I'm saying you need to improve and stop focusing on the bad matches while ignoring your good ones.
If all you're going to do is focus on the 2 out of 30 matches you get creamed you'll never improve and if you can't keep 5 gens from popping in under 3 minutes. Then you'll be stuck there complaining about not being able to deal with it.
Try recording your gameplay then watch it to see where you made mistakes and where you didn't, where you should've chased and where not. Which gens you can ignore and which you should focus on to damage.
I'm not getting any information that's helpful, though. You've basically provided no strats.
How is saying " you need to improve and stop focusing on the bad matches while ignoring your good ones" not "git gud?" I mean it's a nicer way of saying it, but it's the same thing in essence. Vague requests that one improve their skills with not much at all in how to improve against that scenario.
2 out of 30 matches where you run into the hyper efficient gen rush? My god, I'm glad I dodge now. You see them way more than I thought.
I don't have time to go back, and pour over my games, damnit all. I have a job that keeps me working a lot, and keeps me wore out, and the lobby times aren't all that helpful. I barely have time to play, period.
Seriously, how much free time do you have? Do you stream for a living?Again, I'm not trying to be mean, but being told I have to improve isn't helpful at all. Nevermind the fact that part of improving is blood points, and getting genrushed for a 5 minute trial isn't going to net many blood points.
The fact it can happen even without toolboxes means it can happen any time. There is no bracing for it.I mean one chase can last long enough for the other 3 to get to a gen, and power through them, leaving only 2 to do, which means they can spare people.
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@powerbats said:
Well I added Spirit in to show it could be done since you only listed Nurse/Billy and really any well played killer can keep up good map pressure.But it doesn't matter what killer you play since if you don't change how you play or adapt you'll keep getting gen rushed. I've faced Trappers at rank 1 with great map pressure, Pig, Bubba's etc all were great at map pressure.
You just need to improve is all and find a champ that fits your playstyle the best then gear them up and maximize their strengths.
Last line of the post you replied to:
"Random anyone else but the people that can cover large chunks of the map in seconds."
And in the following post you put Spirit among the people that can cover lots of ground quickly.Okay, again, maybe watch some Youtube vids of people dealing with gens in about 3 minutes, and come back with strategies on how to stop it. The only real way to do anything about it is Ruin, and one had better pray it lasts long enough to do any good.
I mean it's not uncommon to have 3 gens pop as quickly as possible, and mid chase. Once that's done all they have to do is have 2 people find 2 more gens, and do them which frees up a person for the rescue, and diversion. Next thing you know, a minute, and a half later, the gates are powered.Saying "git gud" more or less when you've probably forgotten where we're at because you haven't been there in so long isn't helping a lot.
A lot of us are still climbing the mountain.Not trying/wanting to be mean about it.
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Doctor has range, too. Seen some crazy sniper builds with the guy.
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@powerbats said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
I want to see all these people saying to play the SWFs like this anyhow actually make some counter plays to a sub 5 minute, gens done in 3 minutes match, and not use Billy, or Nurse.
Random anyone else but the people that can cover large chunks of the map in seconds.
Very few of my games lasted less than 5 minutes and most were 10-25 minute affairs the longer games were against really good teams. In most of my games gens were never done in under 3 minutes and if that's happening to you constantly then you're playing wrong.
I don't ever use Nurse or Billy because I'm just not good with them and they don't fit my style. Spirit I can cover large chunks of the map in seconds and do it sneakier than those 2. The games where the gens were all done in under 3 minutes were either I just simply got outplayed or I made plenty of mistakes.
The other games that were like that were when I was trying to do my daily or an adept on say Nurse, Billy, Hag, Clown, Myers, Huntress, etc. Many of those I'd only recently gotten the DLC for
Quite often games that last under 5 minutes for me are games where I absolutely destroy people and they're lucky to get even 1 gen done let alone 2. In games where they get all gens or most gens powered is because I'm either just playing badly or I'm farming.
When someone crashes during loading screen i simply farm and let everyone go, if someone dc's right at start at 5 gens I do the same. Oh sure I can be a tryhard and 3k the remainder or deal with a bunch more dc's and get nothing or i can simply farm and get lots more bp and evey has a nice match.
But in the end if you'e losing games that quick all the time you need to play better and change your ways because you're not losing every time to depip squad level swf groups.
1: Not sure why you showed me a picture.
2: That's a spirit. I specifically asked for killers that can't cover massive amounts of landscape in seconds, which a Spirit can. I mean some of us like playing other killers besides Billy, Nurse, and Spirit. :PThat doesn't really answer my question, though. How do you counter people getting all 5 gens done in about 3 minutes? And not use the Spirit, Billy, or Nurse?
There's more than a few youtube vids showing that it's possible, even without toolboxes.
I'm not saying it's common (And it's far less common dodging SWFs.), but that's about how you have a 5 minute match. After that, it's all sorta just screwing around, and trolling the killer. Maybe fighting like hell to even secure 1 kill.Ruin might slow things down a little, but lets not pretend it's reliable.
Honestly, you seem kinda far from the problem. You've got all the practice you need. A lot of us, annoyed by this, are average players at best.
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With nice, toned legs. And a nice butt. Something that would distract the killer in a chase... erm.
But I imagine realistically, it would be super impractical on most of the maps. Swampland, crops, marshes. Places skates don't do well. Or stairs. -
1: because the killer got lazy, or had a brain fart and opened the hatch.Wolf74 said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Wolf74 said:@BigBubs said:
There's no "hatch issue" as far as I know. It's those who make up this issue who have a problem with it.
1.Why do survivor have a free game mechanic that is made to rob the killer of a deserved 4K?
2.Why does the killer not have any free game mechanic that is made to avoid that 4 survivor escape?
3.Why does the hatch open if anybody else already escaped?
4.Why has the survivor the upper hand in a hatch stand off?
1: you don't deserve it as much as you think if you do nothing to prepare for it.
2: Killers do. Slug the last 2. Or even 3. Or stand on the hatch. Or near it and grab the survivor as they jump in. Or know where it is, and try to intercept the survivor. Especially with a one hit down killer, or perk like Rancor, or some such.
3: you got me here. It's kinda annoying when they go out of their way to hatch play. Especially when the gate is way more viable.
4: I don't believe they do. Just mind game them. Bait them into trying for the hatch, then grab them. Or stand on it, and do something else.
1.How does a killer not deserve it? Did the other 3 die from old age? Actually I am fine with a 3k IF I could get a similar mechanic for killer to avoid 4 escape.
Actually nothing you said answered the question. Please reread the question, because I don't think you actually thought that through.
Thanks we can agree at least on one point.
The hatch stand off is a game of stubbornness. If the killer swings, he lost. His only chance is to grab. Perks can't be the answer to this question, since the survivor doesn't need any perks for this either.
Short of everyone but the last guy escaping (thus denying the 4k anyhow) or DCing, the killer is really the only person that can open the hatch by killing the 3rd person in some way.
Thus, outside of the extraordinary circumstances, or the killer failing, it's entirely the killers fault that the gate opens.
The killer literally brings it on themselves.
If there's an swf, if you hook the 3rd guy, just go to the hatch. Expect the swf to disconnect.
Or play perfectly and only let them get 1 gen done at most.
Pros beat hatch plays.
1a: You have a free mechanic. I listed some. I read.
Grab the damned survivor when they try to jump in. Play perfectly and mind game them. No? You aren't playing perfectly.
There's other methods.
I have to wonder how often you actually escaped through the hatch to keep claiming it's free.
3: this is where mind games come in. Back off some. Do a little spin. Make the survivor think you are letting them have the hatch... then grab them as they jump in.
Noob3 recently put out a video where he did a mind game and caught the last survivor at the hatch. Of course he's good, and may make it look easy, but I can't say I had the chance to practice.
All this attempts to destroy the hatch, or make it unusable to a survivor is just screaming that the killer player wants a pity kill out of it.
They know a solo survivor is pretty screwed, and they want that. A screwed survivor they can toy with.
What else can a survivor do but either spend who knows how long trying to open the gates, if ever. A killer can basically hold the game hostage by not letting the survivor finish things, and prevent escape methods.
Or let the survivor get everything but the gates open, then run up and kill them.
If you can't see how it can be abused, I can't really take a desire for it seriously .
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I don't believe Maurice would damage the mystery of who the killer is any more than a Nurses scream, or wraith bell. Especially not Myers or pig.
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1: you don't deserve it as much as you think if you do nothing to prepare for it.Wolf74 said:@BigBubs said:
There's no "hatch issue" as far as I know. It's those who make up this issue who have a problem with it.1.Why do survivor have a free game mechanic that is made to rob the killer of a deserved 4K?
2.Why does the killer not have any free game mechanic that is made to avoid that 4 survivor escape?
3.Why does the hatch open if anybody else already escaped?
4.Why has the survivor the upper hand in a hatch stand off?
2: Killers do. Slug the last 2. Or even 3. Or stand on the hatch. Or near it and grab the survivor as they jump in. Or know where it is, and try to intercept the survivor. Especially with a one hit down killer, or perk like Rancor, or some such.
3: you got me here. It's kinda annoying when they go out of their way to hatch play. Especially when the gate is way more viable.
4: I don't believe they do. Just mind game them. Bait them into trying for the hatch, then grab them. Or stand on it, and do something else. -
I want to see all these people saying to play the SWFs like this anyhow actually make some counter plays to a sub 5 minute, gens done in 3 minutes match, and not use Billy, or Nurse.
Random anyone else but the people that can cover large chunks of the map in seconds.
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Just going for it to make sure you knew you were saying something ludicrous, or not. You are.apropos said:@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
The hatch should operate around the trial ending in a tie, which the devs said happens when two survivors have died and two have escaped. To balance around that idea, the hatch should only open for the final survivor, if at least half of the other survivors have been killed/sacrificed/disconnected. A few examples:- One survivor died, two escape; hatch does not open. Survivors have secured half of the victory.
- One survivor dies, one escapes by opening a black lock; hatch doesn't open until one of the two left dies.
- One survivor dies, one disconnects, two are alive; hatch opens if either of the two left escapes or dies.
- Two survivors die, one escapes by opening the black lock; hatch stays open for fourth survivor.
- Two survivors die, two are alive; hatch doesnt open until one escapes, or dies.
- Three survivors escape; hatch turns into a mimic, opens, and eats the last survivor when they try to escape through it.
As it stands now, it's unfair because the hatch can be used to circumvent certain killer powers, like the Pig's reverse bear traps; three survivors escape, the last survivor with an RBT simply jumps through the hatch and dodges death. That alone should be fixed, regardless of any changes.
You really think a survivor has a chance to get the RBT off and get to the hatch in normal gameplay?
I'm not sure why you think they have to get it off then go to the hatch, they will have three exits to choose from in the given scenario. Consider that the point of the RBT is that the survivor is restricted from leaving the trial until the RBT is removed. The hatch is an exit just like the exit gates, so it shouldn't be treated any differently. Considering that the RBT has been balanced against regular exits, and that the hatch is an exit all the same, I don't see why it should have some special power to negate reverse bear traps.
You're not sure why I think they have to get off the RBT then go to the hatch? Then you explain that if they don't, it should kill them if they try to exit via the gate, and feel the hatch should as well?
You lost me.
You said the hatch circumventing abilities like RBT are unfair.
If it killed the survivor same as trying to get through the gate, they have to take it off before trying or Game Over.
Thus I ask, do you think the average survivor, on their own, can take off the RBT, then get to the hatch, or have to look for the hatch to get to it?Do you know how the reverse bear traps work? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I'm serious. And yes, I'm 100% certain that survivors are capable of removing their RBT, and then escaping through the exit gate, or the hatch.
Yes, I know how they work. When the trial starts each trap is assigned a jigsaw box that removes the RBT. They have 2 min 30 seconds from the time gen activates to find that box.
If they don't, it activates, killing them.
The RBT timer does not run during chases, being hooked, or being slugged.
It goes off at a certain proximity to the exit regardless. It can be bypassed through a hatch escape.
Basically.I didn't ask if you thought survivors could get a trap off, and escape. It's obvious that as a group, they can.
I'm asking how realistic you think it is for a lone survivor, 3 of the 4 sacrificed, or exited, to get the right Jigsaw Box, find the hatch, and escape with a not potato Pig player after them?I'm not trying to be mean about it, I just want to get some idea of how good you think the average survivor can handle the situation.
I figured that's where you were going with this, and to be frank, the answer is relative and only leads into a subjective territory that we couldn't escape from without data that's relevant to the respective population. I mean, I tried taking the existing balance within the game as an implication of what data the devs have, then made inferences about balancing that would be fair. At least that's what I attempted to do by pointing out that the conditions to leave through a regular exit gate and the hatch are very different. If I can trust existing balancing to be a rough indicator of what's fair, then the current hatch mechanics don't make much sense to me, given that it's a more powerful exit that requires less effort to use.
But to be fair, and make an argument against killers; survivors are supposed to function as a single unit, and what's left of their team essentially represents the trial's progress, and who's winning. So, when there's only one survivor left, that whole unit is crippled, and the killer has secured victory. And, even though it's a single person leaving through the hatch, they represent what's left of the survivor's team. After survivors have lost, they should be eligible for the compensation provided by the hatch. But, if they have cleaned house, I don't see why they should be allowed to use something that can negate a killer's power. The killer should be compensated if he's losing by not letting the hatch open, if no survs died which would be fair according to what the devs defined as a tie.
Yes, you knew where I was going with it, and you still dodged the question. C'mon, man.
I want an answer. Your honest opinion.
Do you think the average survivor, alone, could take the time to remove an RBT, and find the hatch against the average Pig?
Lets try the above average pig with tracking perks.
Or just patrolling knowing the survivor has to get things done, which narrows their objectives.
Think the survivors might DC more? Not only to give the hatch, but so they they don't have to put up with an escape stacked too heavily in favor of the killer?Seriously, if the hatch is too damn hard to open, or use, it may as well be gone, and anything short of opening the gates, or having 1 gen left as the last person alive means the last survivor should just walk up to the killer to die.
I'd like to think we both know that's bullshit.
At that point it's not a victory for the killer, it's [BAD WORD] pity by means of game mechanics. On the killer.
And mercy for the survivor.
There's no challenge left for the killer who can patrol the rest of the objectives, and tunnel down the last survivor.
The last survivor probably won't want to deal with that crap. Game mechanics pretending they have a decent chance. They'll DC, or worse leave, or review bomb.
Otherwise the survivor has to go through what ever obstacles are left to get the gates open, or what ever reworks the hatch gets while the killer can basically hold the game hostage, or press their advantage.Can we try to be realistic? If it's impossible, or close to impossible for a survivor to survive, even now, they'll DC. Can you imagine what it would be like if they knew they were caught between a rock, and a hard place with the hatch thoroughly guarded?
From a lore standpoint, utterly cutting off hope from a survivor goes directly against what the Entity wants. The entity doesn't want people giving up, and losing hope. The hatch gives people the hope of escape when the odds would be severely close to impossible otherwise.
The "data" is borked. It's full of DCs, people killing themselves, moris, and so forth. Not straight sacrifices. C'mon. That data is nothing to go on in terms of "balance."
Haha, and you still go for it, tsk tsk. As a side note, I said in an earlier response to you that I am 100% positive that a survivor could remove their RBT before escaping through the hatch, or the exit gate.
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Do you really think it's fair to make the last survivor, alone, go through who knows how many jigsaw boxes, and find the hatch vs an competent Pig? Never mind one with perks?M2Fream said:Ok so in regard to my original post, a lot of people seem to think these ideas are outlandish and killer sided.
I think the hatch should be in favor of whoever finds it first. A common complaint from survivors is also that if a match close were implemented, survivors would be stuck having no chance of escape and would be left to hide until the killer DCS, do 2 gens, or pallet loop / sabo farm. I will take that into consideration with my new rework because it is a valid complaint. What is not a valid complainant, however, is that killers think they deserve a 4k. This is the same as saying survivors deserve an escape. That's the whole reason the hatch is under flame right now because it's putting off the vibe that survivors do deserve a free escape.
I will try to find some common ground.
First off-
CONSTRAINTS
1) The match must end quickly when dealing with a hatch interaction (No standoffs and no 'goings on' after the hatch has been interacted with)
2) The hatch must give both parties a fair chance
3) The hatch must not be available early in the trial
4)The hatch must not give bonus points so as to reduce the urge to farm the hatch. 5k for an escape. No more. No less.
REWORK COMPONENTS
None negotiable
1) Survivors with an RBT cannot use the hatch... When the killer is the pig, the hatch will spawn with some red lights that warn the survivor that it is not safe to enter.
2)The killer should have some slight advantage when dealing with the hatch because they have the superior strength, drive and the home turf advantage if you would
3) The hatch will never spawn when more than 1 survivor is still on the map. (This will prevent survivors from prioritizing the hatch over helping each other)
THE REWORKS (In order of least fair to most fair)
1) The killer can no longer grab the survivor as the jump into the hatch. However, the killer can jump into the hatch and end the game. It will give him 7k points and the last survivor will be considered dead. (This is the current hatch mechanic, but available for the killer too. (It's a bad idea, but the current hatch is really unfair to the killer as it is right now when you read that out loud))
2) The killer can close the hatch. After the hatch is closed, it cannot be opened. Closing the hatch will power the exit gates and open them by 10% if 3 gens were left, 20 for 2 and 30
3) The killer can no longer grab the survivor as they attempt to use the hatch. When the killer and survivor are both in hearing distance of the hatch, the killer can hit the survivor to activate a skill check battle.
The animation would be the killer grabbing the survivors ankle and the survivor trying to crawl to the hatch. The winning party will escape through the hatch or mori the survivor respectively.
The hatch never spawning before there's 1 person left screws up key users, and the achievements/trophy. Pretty sure in your desire to screw survivors, you hadn't considered how to compensate them.
I'm ok with the killer being able to escape through the hatch.
Not a fan of the partial powering of the gate by closing the hatch. It needs to be a strategic choice, and your version doesn't feel like it. It feels like a way to annihilate a survivor after the killer camps the hatch and sees the survivor.
Open the gates in exchange, or nothing.
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@PigNRun said:
Back when they added infinite stage 1 hooks to the PTB, and people calling it "a brand new game!".So it was like killer basketball? Just dunking people as much as you could like one of those free throw games at a carnival?
Edit: Trying to get some sleep and all I can think about is a mix of Dead By Daylight and NBA jam.
"Pig is dribbling obsession Dwight! Pigs on fire!" Pig leaps at a hook clearing 10 ft, Dwight over held over her head, then she dunks him on a hook "BOOM SHAKKA LAKKA!"
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@Vietfox said:
Rebel_Raven said:@Carpemortum said:
Rebel_Raven said:
@powerbats said:
@Vietfox said: Rebel_Raven said: I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer. Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity. The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors. You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities. It also allows for extremely bad match making. And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least. @Rebel_Raven Is it easier with SWF? Yes BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.
This and several times when I've swf'd one or 2 people are on their cellphones talking to their gf and so can't tak anyways. There's other times I'm playing and can't talk due to people sleeping so there's no real advantage in quite a few of those games. For most of my swf games it's with 1 or 2 and sometimes 3 to teach newbies the ropes and hopefully let them earn some bp. The other games we screw around quite a bit and joke about mistakes on both sides and we always say gg afterwards unless it's a camper at 5 gens etc. This whole 4 mans swf swat team excuse is just that an excuse for every game where the killer gets outplayed or when there's even a 2 man swf. In over 1500 hours of playtime on both sides I've never seen more than 100 total groups of highly coordinated swf groups. But I've seen hundreds of solo q games where the solo q's look like a 4 man depip squad, quite a few of those I was a survivor and we just all knew what to do. We knew when to rescue and when not to, when to do gens and when not to etc. After quite a large amount of them the killer would get salty and say swf trash etc, all because they got their butt handed to them. It was a convenient excuse just like here on the forums, it wasn't because they weren't very good or that they made way too many mistakes it was swf. Do you think Monto or Marth or any of the other top tier players got as good as they are by whining about swf and using that as an excuse not to get better? @Vietfox said:
Rebel_Raven said:
I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer. Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity. The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors. You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities. It also allows for extremely bad match making. And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least. @Rebel_Raven
Is it easier with SWF? Yes BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********. We are NOT the depip squad. Funny, I keep running into sweaty SWFs. Nearly every time I give them a chance, outside of events. If I didn't constantly run into people trying to use SWF to their advantage, I might have a better opinion of them, and I'd probably dodge less. Believe me, I get it. You just want to play with friends. I absolutely do not blame you for that. SWF in itself isn't bad. I blame the people pushing SWF advantages who are way too common. Still, I feel the tone of the thread is screwed up. Calling people names because they don't find it fun to gamble with people that might just go out of their way to ruin their fun, and abuse things not intended (Coordination, and communication. I don't really give a damn about SWF in itself) @powerbats said:
@Vietfox said: Rebel_Raven said: I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer. Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity. The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors. You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities. It also allows for extremely bad match making. And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least. @Rebel_Raven Is it easier with SWF? Yes BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.
This and several times when I've swf'd one or 2 people are on their cellphones talking to their gf and so can't tak anyways. There's other times I'm playing and can't talk due to people sleeping so there's no real advantage in quite a few of those games. For most of my swf games it's with 1 or 2 and sometimes 3 to teach newbies the ropes and hopefully let them earn some bp. The other games we screw around quite a bit and joke about mistakes on both sides and we always say gg afterwards unless it's a camper at 5 gens etc. This whole 4 mans swf swat team excuse is just that an excuse for every game where the killer gets outplayed or when there's even a 2 man swf. In over 1500 hours of playtime on both sides I've never seen more than 100 total groups of highly coordinated swf groups. But I've seen hundreds of solo q games where the solo q's look like a 4 man depip squad, quite a few of those I was a survivor and we just all knew what to do. We knew when to rescue and when not to, when to do gens and when not to etc. After quite a large amount of them the killer would get salty and say swf trash etc, all because they got their butt handed to them. It was a convenient excuse just like here on the forums, it wasn't because they weren't very good or that they made way too many mistakes it was swf.
Do you think Monto or Marth or any of the other top tier players got as good as they are by whining about swf and using that as an excuse not to get better? I'm not interested in becoming "top tier." I don't have time for that. I'm not a streamer, and I don't have the time to invest in being as good as one. I really wish I did. I enjoy this game for some strange reason when I generally hate PVP entirely. Survivor, and killer. Hey, I'm all for removing the excuses, or validating them. Lets mark SWFs, or filter them. And/or add a BP bonus to killers depending on how many SWFs are involved in the match to indicvate how many were SWFs. This way someone can see they got whooped by 4 solo survivors and can't make the complaint with any validity. Or if they go after an SWF they can either meet a not sweaty group looking to have fun, an absolutely ruthless group, or a toxic group. People looking to dodge SWF are probably going to do it anyhow. Trying to take advantage of people who don't know any better than to dodge an SWF will only last so long with them, and if they don't know what to look for, they will ALWAYS have that excuse. And hey, there's always the people that don't dodge, even knowing what to look for. It's not like SWF will completely lose games. You can't convince me that most SWFs aren't mostly sweaty when my experiences say otherwise. They aren't out to screw around short of being toxic/BM. Maybe some are trying to teach? I might have ran into one game like that. But they're generally out to be as ruthless as possible in my experiences, and that's pretty ruthless when they can basically break the game.
So if you dont care about being top tier why do you care when you lose to "sweaty they hards" wasting their items. Why not laugh....
There's no profit in losing like that. I do want blood points, you know.
It's also no fun at all.
It's kinda crap to get encouraged to become top tier and not have the perks/addons/offerings top tier players use, and expect to get them the ultra hard way.
I watch the vids. Almost none use less than t3 stuff save rare emergency cases.
@Rebel_Raven
Everyone wants bps, but it isn't fun either to face a myers with infinite EW3 or a one shot huntress. Survivors dont get many bps against those either.Yeah, I know. I'm on the survivor end of that at times. Killers just going overboard whole hog. Mostly Myers, Doctors and Wraiths with absolutely zero chill. Sub 8k matches suck, survivor or killer.
Was real fun for matchmaking to put me in a match with a killer 9 ranks higher than me.If you Vs me as a killer, even if I have a hundred addons that offer those abilities, I'll probably never play that way outside of rare occurrences for shits and giggles. Not likely against anything but a 4 man SWF on top of that.
I loathe the day I look at a group and think "Boy, I better use the heavy artillery and try really damn hard to fight to have a chance here. No fun, just business. just grind."
It's just the latter part right now. I don't have an SWF killer build. Certainly don't want to adhere to meta and make one.I might goof around and do a Rancor - Devour Hope - haunted grounds combo for shits and giggles and see if it works with other perks, sort of a no mori kill build, but, well..
I'm sort of the killer equivalent to the SWFs you say you run, I guess? If I'm reading your intent with SWF right?
I could have the tools to be toxic, but I'm happier giving, and getting a sporting chance.
I might make the game easier on me, but go at it full tilt? Nah.But it goes too far when my advancement is put in peril. Not ranks, but I mean getting stronger perks, and on characters I like to get the builds I want to try. So I need BP.
If I could figure out a way to suggest something outside of a gentlemen's agreement that neither side will go ultra tryhard I would. Maybe if we get enough people we can set up lobbies with KYF style rules, limits on rarities, etc. but people dislike the idea of splitting the community.
Perkless matches look hella fun watching Achievement Hunter do them. -
@powerbats said:
@Rebel_Raven I've said they should give a bonus post game for swf groups with the large the group the larger the bonus. I've also run into sweaty groups but I don't let it bother me and I trash talk right back and joke about their mistakes as well as mine,The funny thing is you'll get the same groups back to back sometimes and they tend to play very cocky if they know it's you and then you wreck them.
The biggest thing to remember is it's just a game, yes you always want to win but laugh at your mistakes and theirs. See the humour in everything and when you miss that point blank hit laugh it off and then when you down them exult in victory.
There's no post game chat on ps4, so I don't have the luxury, or care to reach out like that.
Usually the mistake I make is Vsing an SWF and thinking I can get anything done. haha
I'm an odd duck, I guess. I don't care about "winning" in the way most would put it. 4ks are nice, but I'm not at all hard up for them. Or even 3ks.
Hell, I'll let people go if the mood strikes me.
I don't camp unless a survivor ticks me off, or the gates are open, or about to be. Don't even have BBQ and Chili at all. Or MYC on everyone, or Devour Hope on everyone.
I might patrol knowing they'll unhook soon (Sometimes they don't try to rescue. All part of the chaos. Kinda bums me out.).
I'll probably put down traps if I can.
Not keen on tunneling, but there always seems to be the one that wants to be a distraction. I'd really rather go after someone else most times.I just want Blood points and have some fun, and hopefully get a fair shake at winning, entity's pleasure be damned.
SWFs are keen to rob me of all of that far too often.
Hyper efficient 99 percent of the time, toxic at times, BM almost always.
It's not an enjoyable environment. The BP isn't there either, thus I dodge.At least skimming for solos I have a reasonable chance to get half decent BP, and I can have some fun in chasing them around, and not basically play the same game every time never knowing what they'll do. The randomness is way more fun. What will they do when someone gets hooked? Will they keep pushing gens? Will they panic?
SWFs are sorta robotic, but not in the ways that I can/want to strategize around, more in that they are just cold, and efficient, and often cookie cutter. Sometimes they treat me like I'm a bigger threat than I am, or deploy obvious tactics.About the only times I like SWF is during events and we can sing kumbaya, and get stuff done. Even then they're dense as hell most times.
Anywho, when SWFs either get the hook out of their butts and stop abusing SWF most times, or it becomes profitable to go against them and deal with the difficulty spike, or hopefully both, I'll likely stop dodging, and stop being such a grump about it.
-
@Carpemortum said:
Rebel_Raven said:@powerbats said:
@Vietfox said: Rebel_Raven said: I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer. Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity. The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors. You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities. It also allows for extremely bad match making. And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least. @Rebel_Raven Is it easier with SWF? Yes BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.
This and several times when I've swf'd one or 2 people are on their cellphones talking to their gf and so can't tak anyways. There's other times I'm playing and can't talk due to people sleeping so there's no real advantage in quite a few of those games. For most of my swf games it's with 1 or 2 and sometimes 3 to teach newbies the ropes and hopefully let them earn some bp. The other games we screw around quite a bit and joke about mistakes on both sides and we always say gg afterwards unless it's a camper at 5 gens etc. This whole 4 mans swf swat team excuse is just that an excuse for every game where the killer gets outplayed or when there's even a 2 man swf. In over 1500 hours of playtime on both sides I've never seen more than 100 total groups of highly coordinated swf groups. But I've seen hundreds of solo q games where the solo q's look like a 4 man depip squad, quite a few of those I was a survivor and we just all knew what to do. We knew when to rescue and when not to, when to do gens and when not to etc. After quite a large amount of them the killer would get salty and say swf trash etc, all because they got their butt handed to them. It was a convenient excuse just like here on the forums, it wasn't because they weren't very good or that they made way too many mistakes it was swf. Do you think Monto or Marth or any of the other top tier players got as good as they are by whining about swf and using that as an excuse not to get better? @Vietfox said:
Rebel_Raven said:
I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer. Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity. The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors. You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities. It also allows for extremely bad match making. And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least. @Rebel_Raven
Is it easier with SWF? Yes
BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.
Funny, I keep running into sweaty SWFs. Nearly every time I give them a chance, outside of events.
If I didn't constantly run into people trying to use SWF to their advantage, I might have a better opinion of them, and I'd probably dodge less.
Believe me, I get it. You just want to play with friends. I absolutely do not blame you for that. SWF in itself isn't bad.
I blame the people pushing SWF advantages who are way too common.
Still, I feel the tone of the thread is screwed up.
Calling people names because they don't find it fun to gamble with people that might just go out of their way to ruin their fun, and abuse things not intended (Coordination, and communication. I don't really give a damn about SWF in itself)
@powerbats said:
@Vietfox said: Rebel_Raven said: I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer. Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity. The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors. You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities. It also allows for extremely bad match making. And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least. @Rebel_Raven Is it easier with SWF? Yes BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.
This and several times when I've swf'd one or 2 people are on their cellphones talking to their gf and so can't tak anyways. There's other times I'm playing and can't talk due to people sleeping so there's no real advantage in quite a few of those games. For most of my swf games it's with 1 or 2 and sometimes 3 to teach newbies the ropes and hopefully let them earn some bp. The other games we screw around quite a bit and joke about mistakes on both sides and we always say gg afterwards unless it's a camper at 5 gens etc. This whole 4 mans swf swat team excuse is just that an excuse for every game where the killer gets outplayed or when there's even a 2 man swf. In over 1500 hours of playtime on both sides I've never seen more than 100 total groups of highly coordinated swf groups. But I've seen hundreds of solo q games where the solo q's look like a 4 man depip squad, quite a few of those I was a survivor and we just all knew what to do. We knew when to rescue and when not to, when to do gens and when not to etc. After quite a large amount of them the killer would get salty and say swf trash etc, all because they got their butt handed to them. It was a convenient excuse just like here on the forums, it wasn't because they weren't very good or that they made way too many mistakes it was swf.
Do you think Monto or Marth or any of the other top tier players got as good as they are by whining about swf and using that as an excuse not to get better?
I'm not interested in becoming "top tier." I don't have time for that. I'm not a streamer, and I don't have the time to invest in being as good as one. I really wish I did. I enjoy this game for some strange reason when I generally hate PVP entirely. Survivor, and killer.
Hey, I'm all for removing the excuses, or validating them.
Lets mark SWFs, or filter them.
And/or add a BP bonus to killers depending on how many SWFs are involved in the match to indicvate how many were SWFs.
This way someone can see they got whooped by 4 solo survivors and can't make the complaint with any validity.
Or if they go after an SWF they can either meet a not sweaty group looking to have fun, an absolutely ruthless group, or a toxic group.
People looking to dodge SWF are probably going to do it anyhow.
Trying to take advantage of people who don't know any better than to dodge an SWF will only last so long with them, and if they don't know what to look for, they will ALWAYS have that excuse.
And hey, there's always the people that don't dodge, even knowing what to look for. It's not like SWF will completely lose games.
You can't convince me that most SWFs aren't mostly sweaty when my experiences say otherwise.
They aren't out to screw around short of being toxic/BM. Maybe some are trying to teach? I might have ran into one game like that.
But they're generally out to be as ruthless as possible in my experiences, and that's pretty ruthless when they can basically break the game.
So if you dont care about being top tier why do you care when you lose to "sweaty they hards" wasting their items. Why not laugh....
There's no profit in losing like that. I do want blood points, you know.
It's also no fun at all.It's kinda crap to get encouraged to become top tier and not have the perks/addons/offerings top tier players use, and expect to get them the ultra hard way.
I watch the vids. Almost none use less than t3 stuff save rare emergency cases. -
@powerbats said:
@Vietfox said:
Rebel_Raven said:I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer.
Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity.
The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors.
You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities.
It also allows for extremely bad match making.
And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least.
@Rebel_Raven
Is it easier with SWF? Yes
BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.This and several times when I've swf'd one or 2 people are on their cellphones talking to their gf and so can't tak anyways. There's other times I'm playing and can't talk due to people sleeping so there's no real advantage in quite a few of those games.
For most of my swf games it's with 1 or 2 and sometimes 3 to teach newbies the ropes and hopefully let them earn some bp. The other games we screw around quite a bit and joke about mistakes on both sides and we always say gg afterwards unless it's a camper at 5 gens etc.
This whole 4 mans swf swat team excuse is just that an excuse for every game where the killer gets outplayed or when there's even a 2 man swf. In over 1500 hours of playtime on both sides I've never seen more than 100 total groups of highly coordinated swf groups.
But I've seen hundreds of solo q games where the solo q's look like a 4 man depip squad, quite a few of those I was a survivor and we just all knew what to do. We knew when to rescue and when not to, when to do gens and when not to etc.
After quite a large amount of them the killer would get salty and say swf trash etc, all because they got their butt handed to them. It was a convenient excuse just like here on the forums, it wasn't because they weren't very good or that they made way too many mistakes it was swf.
Do you think Monto or Marth or any of the other top tier players got as good as they are by whining about swf and using that as an excuse not to get better?
@Vietfox said:
Rebel_Raven said:I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer.
Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity.
The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors.
You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities.
It also allows for extremely bad match making.
And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least.
@Rebel_Raven
Is it easier with SWF? Yes
BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.Funny, I keep running into sweaty SWFs. Nearly every time I give them a chance, outside of events.
If I didn't constantly run into people trying to use SWF to their advantage, I might have a better opinion of them, and I'd probably dodge less.Believe me, I get it. You just want to play with friends. I absolutely do not blame you for that. SWF in itself isn't bad.
I blame the people pushing SWF advantages who are way too common.Still, I feel the tone of the thread is screwed up.
Calling people names because they don't find it fun to gamble with people that might just go out of their way to ruin their fun, and abuse things not intended (Coordination, and communication. I don't really give a damn about SWF in itself)@powerbats said:
@Vietfox said:
Rebel_Raven said:I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer.
Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity.
The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors.
You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities.
It also allows for extremely bad match making.
And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least.
@Rebel_Raven
Is it easier with SWF? Yes
BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.This and several times when I've swf'd one or 2 people are on their cellphones talking to their gf and so can't tak anyways. There's other times I'm playing and can't talk due to people sleeping so there's no real advantage in quite a few of those games.
For most of my swf games it's with 1 or 2 and sometimes 3 to teach newbies the ropes and hopefully let them earn some bp. The other games we screw around quite a bit and joke about mistakes on both sides and we always say gg afterwards unless it's a camper at 5 gens etc.
This whole 4 mans swf swat team excuse is just that an excuse for every game where the killer gets outplayed or when there's even a 2 man swf. In over 1500 hours of playtime on both sides I've never seen more than 100 total groups of highly coordinated swf groups.
But I've seen hundreds of solo q games where the solo q's look like a 4 man depip squad, quite a few of those I was a survivor and we just all knew what to do. We knew when to rescue and when not to, when to do gens and when not to etc.
After quite a large amount of them the killer would get salty and say swf trash etc, all because they got their butt handed to them. It was a convenient excuse just like here on the forums, it wasn't because they weren't very good or that they made way too many mistakes it was swf.
Do you think Monto or Marth or any of the other top tier players got as good as they are by whining about swf and using that as an excuse not to get better?
I'm not interested in becoming "top tier." I don't have time for that. I'm not a streamer, and I don't have the time to invest in being as good as one. I really wish I did. I enjoy this game for some strange reason when I generally hate PVP entirely. Survivor, and killer.
Hey, I'm all for removing the excuses, or validating them.
Lets mark SWFs, or filter them.
And/or add a BP bonus to killers depending on how many SWFs are involved in the match to indicvate how many were SWFs.
This way someone can see they got whooped by 4 solo survivors and can't make the complaint with any validity.
Or if they go after an SWF they can either meet a not sweaty group looking to have fun, an absolutely ruthless group, or a toxic group.
People looking to dodge SWF are probably going to do it anyhow.
Trying to take advantage of people who don't know any better than to dodge an SWF will only last so long with them, and if they don't know what to look for, they will ALWAYS have that excuse.And hey, there's always the people that don't dodge, even knowing what to look for. It's not like SWF will completely lose games.
You can't convince me that most SWFs aren't mostly sweaty when my experiences say otherwise.
They aren't out to screw around short of being toxic/BM. Maybe some are trying to teach? I might have ran into one game like that.
But they're generally out to be as ruthless as possible in my experiences, and that's pretty ruthless when they can basically break the game. -
@Vietfox said:
Rebel_Raven said:I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer.
Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity.
The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors.
You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities.
It also allows for extremely bad match making.
And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least.
@Rebel_Raven
Is it easier with SWF? Yes
BUT you fail to realize that most swfs play with friends just because they like to play with their friends, not because they are sweaty ********.
We are NOT the depip squad.Funny, I keep running into sweaty SWFs. Nearly every time I give them a chance, outside of events.
If I didn't constantly run into people trying to use SWF to their advantage, I might have a better opinion of them, and I'd probably dodge less.Believe me, I get it. You just want to play with friends. I absolutely do not blame you for that. SWF in itself isn't bad.
I blame the people pushing SWF advantages who are way too common.Still, I feel the tone of the thread is screwed up.
Calling people names because they don't find it fun to gamble with people that might just go out of their way to ruin their fun, and abuse things not intended (Coordination, and communication. I don't really give a damn about SWF in itself) while the people calling them cowards are actively making the game easier on themselves. -
I see it as pretty cowardly to play in SWF. It makes the game easier for those survivors, to the point of virtually game breaking, and often hurts the killer.
Like you aren't coordinating at all? Sure. And I'm the Entity.
The game isn't balanced for coordinated survivors.
You can act like you aren't doing much but against a threat, I'd wager you'll start sharing more and more info, and playing harder and harder using comms to your advantage going well beyond the solo survivor's abilities.
It also allows for extremely bad match making.
And don't forget to rag on the survivor side of things. They DC plenty, too. They have the option to back out of bad ping games at the least.
-
Someone lost the key to the clown car, so all hundred of them are still in it.
-
I don't believe anyone ever camps for no reason.
A while ago, I watched a YouTube video offering tips on killer.
One such tip was to never let the first person you hook live.
The line of thinking is a little sound.
1 less person doing gens. Anyone doing a rescue isn't doing gens and can get caught, and maybe killed. That means even fewer doing gens later.
That means no immediate gen rush, and that means less people doing gens later.
Of course the counter to this is just do gens, or gen rush, pop 2, or 3. Apply pressure on the killer to leave the hook. Rescue just before struggling.
Of course, depending on the time spent hooking the first person, that could mean 4, or even 5 gens are done.
Last gen gets done, then there's basically no way the killer will leave the hook.
This leads to the gates being open. Gates done means who ever is on the hook is going to get secures.
So, obviously the make sure the first hook dies tactic can backfire, and the video I watched didn't cover it backfiring.
Of course there the idea of altruism, and bait. Lure in several survivors, knock down more than the 1 originally had.
And chaos. I can't count how many times I watched the yellow auras go into panic mode once I got hooked. Neither rescue, totems, or gens were being done.
If you run around a killer too much, or make yourself known to be dangerous in a chase by killing their time, they may prioritize you leaving the game. The nail that sticks up too much gets hammered down first.
Of course there's just people that do it to make others mad, etc.
Tl:dr the reasons are many, and vary as much as killers. Trying to make sense of it is kinda folly. -
@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
The hatch should operate around the trial ending in a tie, which the devs said happens when two survivors have died and two have escaped. To balance around that idea, the hatch should only open for the final survivor, if at least half of the other survivors have been killed/sacrificed/disconnected. A few examples:- One survivor died, two escape; hatch does not open. Survivors have secured half of the victory.
- One survivor dies, one escapes by opening a black lock; hatch doesn't open until one of the two left dies.
- One survivor dies, one disconnects, two are alive; hatch opens if either of the two left escapes or dies.
- Two survivors die, one escapes by opening the black lock; hatch stays open for fourth survivor.
- Two survivors die, two are alive; hatch doesnt open until one escapes, or dies.
- Three survivors escape; hatch turns into a mimic, opens, and eats the last survivor when they try to escape through it.
As it stands now, it's unfair because the hatch can be used to circumvent certain killer powers, like the Pig's reverse bear traps; three survivors escape, the last survivor with an RBT simply jumps through the hatch and dodges death. That alone should be fixed, regardless of any changes.
You really think a survivor has a chance to get the RBT off and get to the hatch in normal gameplay?
I'm not sure why you think they have to get it off then go to the hatch, they will have three exits to choose from in the given scenario. Consider that the point of the RBT is that the survivor is restricted from leaving the trial until the RBT is removed. The hatch is an exit just like the exit gates, so it shouldn't be treated any differently. Considering that the RBT has been balanced against regular exits, and that the hatch is an exit all the same, I don't see why it should have some special power to negate reverse bear traps.
You're not sure why I think they have to get off the RBT then go to the hatch? Then you explain that if they don't, it should kill them if they try to exit via the gate, and feel the hatch should as well?
You lost me.
You said the hatch circumventing abilities like RBT are unfair.
If it killed the survivor same as trying to get through the gate, they have to take it off before trying or Game Over.
Thus I ask, do you think the average survivor, on their own, can take off the RBT, then get to the hatch, or have to look for the hatch to get to it?Do you know how the reverse bear traps work? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I'm serious. And yes, I'm 100% certain that survivors are capable of removing their RBT, and then escaping through the exit gate, or the hatch.
Yes, I know how they work. When the trial starts each trap is assigned a jigsaw box that removes the RBT. They have 2 min 30 seconds from the time gen activates to find that box.
If they don't, it activates, killing them.
The RBT timer does not run during chases, being hooked, or being slugged.
It goes off at a certain proximity to the exit regardless. It can be bypassed through a hatch escape.
Basically.I didn't ask if you thought survivors could get a trap off, and escape. It's obvious that as a group, they can.
I'm asking how realistic you think it is for a lone survivor, 3 of the 4 sacrificed, or exited, to get the right Jigsaw Box, find the hatch, and escape with a not potato Pig player after them?I'm not trying to be mean about it, I just want to get some idea of how good you think the average survivor can handle the situation.
I figured that's where you were going with this, and to be frank, the answer is relative and only leads into a subjective territory that we couldn't escape from without data that's relevant to the respective population. I mean, I tried taking the existing balance within the game as an implication of what data the devs have, then made inferences about balancing that would be fair. At least that's what I attempted to do by pointing out that the conditions to leave through a regular exit gate and the hatch are very different. If I can trust existing balancing to be a rough indicator of what's fair, then the current hatch mechanics don't make much sense to me, given that it's a more powerful exit that requires less effort to use.
But to be fair, and make an argument against killers; survivors are supposed to function as a single unit, and what's left of their team essentially represents the trial's progress, and who's winning. So, when there's only one survivor left, that whole unit is crippled, and the killer has secured victory. And, even though it's a single person leaving through the hatch, they represent what's left of the survivor's team. After survivors have lost, they should be eligible for the compensation provided by the hatch. But, if they have cleaned house, I don't see why they should be allowed to use something that can negate a killer's power. The killer should be compensated if he's losing by not letting the hatch open, if no survs died which would be fair according to what the devs defined as a tie.
Yes, you knew where I was going with it, and you still dodged the question. C'mon, man.
I want an answer. Your honest opinion.
Do you think the average survivor, alone, could take the time to remove an RBT, and find the hatch against the average Pig?
Lets try the above average pig with tracking perks.
Or just patrolling knowing the survivor has to get things done, which narrows their objectives.
Think the survivors might DC more? Not only to give the hatch, but so they they don't have to put up with an escape stacked too heavily in favor of the killer?Seriously, if the hatch is too damn hard to open, or use, it may as well be gone, and anything short of opening the gates, or having 1 gen left as the last person alive means the last survivor should just walk up to the killer to die.
I'd like to think we both know that's bullshit.
At that point it's not a victory for the killer, it's ######### pity by means of game mechanics. On the killer.
And mercy for the survivor.
There's no challenge left for the killer who can patrol the rest of the objectives, and tunnel down the last survivor.
The last survivor probably won't want to deal with that crap. Game mechanics pretending they have a decent chance. They'll DC, or worse leave, or review bomb.
Otherwise the survivor has to go through what ever obstacles are left to get the gates open, or what ever reworks the hatch gets while the killer can basically hold the game hostage, or press their advantage.Can we try to be realistic? If it's impossible, or close to impossible for a survivor to survive, even now, they'll DC. Can you imagine what it would be like if they knew they were caught between a rock, and a hard place with the hatch thoroughly guarded?
From a lore standpoint, utterly cutting off hope from a survivor goes directly against what the Entity wants. The entity doesn't want people giving up, and losing hope. The hatch gives people the hope of escape when the odds would be severely close to impossible otherwise.
The "data" is borked. It's full of DCs, people killing themselves, moris, and so forth. Not straight sacrifices. C'mon. That data is nothing to go on in terms of "balance."
-
Option 3 was more or less attempted in PTB, but never public. Killer closes hatch, and both gates open. Frankly it seems fairer and fairer the more people complain about the hatch, which a killer can prevent opening, and can use strategies including grabbing the survivor as they jump in.
So, 3 is basically, no matter how many gens are done, if the killer closes the hatch, the gates power, and are 30 percent done?
Options 1 and 2 sorta scream "I'm entitled to kill 4!" by stacking the deck against 1 person way too heavily.
3 is basically the only reasonably fair one for survivor and killer.
-
@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
The hatch should operate around the trial ending in a tie, which the devs said happens when two survivors have died and two have escaped. To balance around that idea, the hatch should only open for the final survivor, if at least half of the other survivors have been killed/sacrificed/disconnected. A few examples:- One survivor died, two escape; hatch does not open. Survivors have secured half of the victory.
- One survivor dies, one escapes by opening a black lock; hatch doesn't open until one of the two left dies.
- One survivor dies, one disconnects, two are alive; hatch opens if either of the two left escapes or dies.
- Two survivors die, one escapes by opening the black lock; hatch stays open for fourth survivor.
- Two survivors die, two are alive; hatch doesnt open until one escapes, or dies.
- Three survivors escape; hatch turns into a mimic, opens, and eats the last survivor when they try to escape through it.
As it stands now, it's unfair because the hatch can be used to circumvent certain killer powers, like the Pig's reverse bear traps; three survivors escape, the last survivor with an RBT simply jumps through the hatch and dodges death. That alone should be fixed, regardless of any changes.
You really think a survivor has a chance to get the RBT off and get to the hatch in normal gameplay?
I'm not sure why you think they have to get it off then go to the hatch, they will have three exits to choose from in the given scenario. Consider that the point of the RBT is that the survivor is restricted from leaving the trial until the RBT is removed. The hatch is an exit just like the exit gates, so it shouldn't be treated any differently. Considering that the RBT has been balanced against regular exits, and that the hatch is an exit all the same, I don't see why it should have some special power to negate reverse bear traps.
You're not sure why I think they have to get off the RBT then go to the hatch? Then you explain that if they don't, it should kill them if they try to exit via the gate, and feel the hatch should as well?
You lost me.
You said the hatch circumventing abilities like RBT are unfair.
If it killed the survivor same as trying to get through the gate, they have to take it off before trying or Game Over.
Thus I ask, do you think the average survivor, on their own, can take off the RBT, then get to the hatch, or have to look for the hatch to get to it?Do you know how the reverse bear traps work? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I'm serious. And yes, I'm 100% certain that survivors are capable of removing their RBT, and then escaping through the exit gate, or the hatch.
Yes, I know how they work. When the trial starts each trap is assigned a jigsaw box that removes the RBT. They have 2 min 30 seconds from the time gen activates to find that box.
If they don't, it activates, killing them.
The RBT timer does not run during chases, being hooked, or being slugged.
It goes off at a certain proximity to the exit regardless. It can be bypassed through a hatch escape.
Basically.I didn't ask if you thought survivors could get a trap off, and escape. It's obvious that as a group, they can.
I'm asking how realistic you think it is for a lone survivor, 3 of the 4 sacrificed, or exited, to get the right Jigsaw Box, find the hatch, and escape with a not potato Pig player after them?I'm not trying to be mean about it, I just want to get some idea of how good you think the average survivor can handle the situation.
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@apropos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
@apropos said:
The hatch should operate around the trial ending in a tie, which the devs said happens when two survivors have died and two have escaped. To balance around that idea, the hatch should only open for the final survivor, if at least half of the other survivors have been killed/sacrificed/disconnected. A few examples:- One survivor died, two escape; hatch does not open. Survivors have secured half of the victory.
- One survivor dies, one escapes by opening a black lock; hatch doesn't open until one of the two left dies.
- One survivor dies, one disconnects, two are alive; hatch opens if either of the two left escapes or dies.
- Two survivors die, one escapes by opening the black lock; hatch stays open for fourth survivor.
- Two survivors die, two are alive; hatch doesnt open until one escapes, or dies.
- Three survivors escape; hatch turns into a mimic, opens, and eats the last survivor when they try to escape through it.
As it stands now, it's unfair because the hatch can be used to circumvent certain killer powers, like the Pig's reverse bear traps; three survivors escape, the last survivor with an RBT simply jumps through the hatch and dodges death. That alone should be fixed, regardless of any changes.
You really think a survivor has a chance to get the RBT off and get to the hatch in normal gameplay?
I'm not sure why you think they have to get it off then go to the hatch, they will have three exits to choose from in the given scenario. Consider that the point of the RBT is that the survivor is restricted from leaving the trial until the RBT is removed. The hatch is an exit just like the exit gates, so it shouldn't be treated any differently. Considering that the RBT has been balanced against regular exits, and that the hatch is an exit all the same, I don't see why it should have some special power to negate reverse bear traps.
You're not sure why I think they have to get off the RBT then go to the hatch? Then you explain that if they don't, it should kill them if they try to exit via the gate, and feel the hatch should as well?
You lost me.
You said the hatch circumventing abilities like RBT are unfair.
If it killed the survivor same as trying to get through the gate, they have to take it off before trying or Game Over.
Thus I ask, do you think the average survivor, on their own, can take off the RBT, then get to the hatch, or have to look for the hatch to get to it? -
@apropos said:
The hatch should operate around the trial ending in a tie, which the devs said happens when two survivors have died and two have escaped. To balance around that idea, the hatch should only open for the final survivor, if at least half of the other survivors have been killed/sacrificed/disconnected. A few examples:- One survivor died, two escape; hatch does not open. Survivors have secured half of the victory.
- One survivor dies, one escapes by opening a black lock; hatch doesn't open until one of the two left dies.
- One survivor dies, one disconnects, two are alive; hatch opens if either of the two left escapes or dies.
- Two survivors die, one escapes by opening the black lock; hatch stays open for fourth survivor.
- Two survivors die, two are alive; hatch doesnt open until one escapes, or dies.
- Three survivors escape; hatch turns into a mimic, opens, and eats the last survivor when they try to escape through it.
As it stands now, it's unfair because the hatch can be used to circumvent certain killer powers, like the Pig's reverse bear traps; three survivors escape, the last survivor with an RBT simply jumps through the hatch and dodges death. That alone should be fixed, regardless of any changes.
You really think a survivor has a chance to get the RBT off and get to the hatch in normal gameplay?
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No, but maybe they should be match made against killers a rank, or few higher, or something to compensate for the difficulty?
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No, I might want to slow vault and juke, or some such.
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At least it's more interesting than getting camped on hook. Or even being hooked.
Enjoy the show.
https://youtu.be/Kq5WPkLCAiY