Rebel_Raven
Rebel_Raven
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Yep. Basically boils down to killers being greedy. And lazy. There are tactics for keeping the hatch closed, or making it harder to stop the survivor, but they just want the last guy to be alone and completely screwed.Whispers23 said:Why people do standoffs any way? When I see the last survivor at the hatch I just hit them and let them escape. I don't even keep the second last survivor on the ground and go look for the last one.
I guess some killers are greedy.
Killer wants sacrifice points.
Survivor wants escape points.
Most killers that complain just can't let anyone go for any reason. 4k crazed and would be thrilled if the hatch were gone entirely from the way they complain.
One survivor could have soloed 4 gens and kept everyone else alive until 3rd hook, ended up with 1 gen left, and they're still seen as lazy, and undeserving.
Survivors don't want to be put into a position where they have zero chance to escape. Removing the hatch basically leaves them at that.
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The ultimate way to end the hatch stand off. If the killer jumps in, the last survivor is automatically sacrificed as the pocket dimension the trial is held in collapses.purebalance said:@PolarBear said:
The hatch rework won't help killers in the long run. It won't make the endgame shorter by that much if by any even if closing the hatch completed the remaining generators (unless you have bitter murmur). I'd rather let the last survivor leave or jump in myself than wait for another 5-15 minutes hoping I can get a grab or an escape.Lol I'd love it if the killer could jump in and catch them from inside lurking.
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It's dumb with all the other things there could be, but it's just awesome when you chase a survivor off a ledge, both of you fall, and you hit them on the way down.
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@Giche said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
At this point it's mind games over the hatch.
Give me an example.
Because when asked for it before, you answered by describing an hatch standoff.
There's no mindgames in this situation, only the most stubborn win.
The killer can back up off the hatch then suddenly move forward and grab the survivor as they try to enter.
The survivor can run off and finish gens scoring big points, and if it goes on enough, screw the killer hard as the killer has to guard both gates and the hatch. The survivor can circle around and see if the killer is still at the hatch and hop in if not.
You got any ideas that don't boil down to "hurr durr, the last guy is screwed! I'm entitled to that kill!"
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As soon as NOED becomes base kit for all killers, sure.
You do realize knowing how many totems are left would basically make NOED worthless? Survivors would all know for certain if it can activate or not.
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No arguments here.
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Hey, read on. I asked if you had better ideas.Giche said:@Rebel_Raven said:
HEY! Guess what happens after that scene?! She tries to jump in, gets GRABBED and carried off to get hooked!! Reality sinks in!
Do that! It's an actual game mechanic!Making you swing is exactly what they want. You don't have to swing, though.
fake out the survivor and make them think they have enough space to leave, then grab'em!No one is forcing you to give up when you screw up as a killer, and open the hatch, or when someone takes the bullet to let someone get the hatch.
It's not like the game paralyzes the killer once the hatch opens.Thanks for describing an hatch stand off.
It's cancerous, it shouldn't happen, it has to go.
The survivor entitlement is showing.
I'm hoping for more than "hurr durr the last one alone is totally screwed!" Which shows a lot.
I hate standoffs, I hate it when survivors camp the gate room, or hatch.
At this point it's mind games over the hatch. -
@nomorevideos said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
Have you considered hanging around as little as possible when NOED is in play? Or breaking totems?drooling Now that you mention it, that seems like a pretty good plan. Lemme consult my 3 teammates who aren't doing jackshit and the 5 gens that need to be done to even reach endgame. Maybe I'll have enough time to cleanse all 5-6 totems with Small Game before half my team is dead and 3 gens are left.
Dude, NOED doesn't even activate until the gates are powered. If your teammates are off faffing around that badly, go for a hatch play.
No NOED.Or you can go around and just break dull totems.
If there's no dull totems left, there's no NOED. At all.
So, in theory, if Thrill of the Hunt is active, or Haunted Grounds is active, in general, if there's a lit totem and no one is apparently is suffering from it, leave it alone.
One less totem to do. Or even -3- less totems if they have TOTH, and HG going.
It requires a dull totem to activate. Dull totems basically are unguarded because even the killer has to track them down manually. -
@DocOctober said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
DocOctober said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DocOctober said:
@Rebel_Raven said: You're not entitled to the 4th kill.
There's ways to stop hatch plays cold, like slugging the last 2, knowing where the hatch is and intercepting, and such.
The killer is more responsible for opening the hatch than the survivor. All it takes is one DC from a Survive With Friends team and there's absolutely nothing the Killer can do about it. The Survivor also isn't entitled to the Hatch escape. Sure there is. Slug the 4th. Hook the 4th.
That strat only works if they know where the hatch is, and can get to it first.
The survivor doesn't get entitled to it. They still have to live long enough to find it, and get through it.
Effin'A the killer even has a chance to grab a survivor like they were going through a window and stop the hatch play.
It's still a battle.
Which doesn't work in my scenario.
How the hell not? Kill the 4th person.
They need to know where the hatch is.They may abuse the system to open the hatch, but it's not an instant loss.
You still get quitter bonus.
Would you mind reading stuff properly? The Survivor knew where the hatch was and was there, only waiting for their SWF buddy to DC. Both knew the hatch location and as soon as it opened, the remaining Survivor came around the corner. I can't kill them then as they would jump into the Hatch during the attack cool-down.
Seriously, at this point, this is how you guys act:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9beE0fWMyowHEY! Guess what happens after that scene?! She tries to jump in, gets GRABBED and carried off to get hooked!! Reality sinks in!
Do that! It's an actual game mechanic!Making you swing is exactly what they want. You don't have to swing, though.
fake out the survivor and make them think they have enough space to leave, then grab'em!No one is forcing you to give up when you screw up as a killer, and open the hatch, or when someone takes the bullet to let someone get the hatch.
It's not like the game paralyzes the killer once the hatch opens.
Even an SWF has to find the hatch, and it doesn't even appear until the amount of generators done are 1 more than survivors left.
Find the hatch, slug the 3rd, and go directly to the hatch if it's an SWF. The 4th will probably be there, ready to get killed, maybe before they realize what's going on to even DC to begin with.
People claim SWFs big weakness is being predictable.If you can't take the time to learn where the hatch is, if you can't hunt down the last person who is basically got one objective left because the hatch is all they want, that's on the killer.
Hey, if you're so great, why is the hatch even powered? Kill'em all with 5 gens left to do. or 4!
Killers are worse than survivors about NOED on this. There's some pretty blatantly obvious tactics here, and it doesn't require as much work as finding and cleansing 5 totems.
As much as their egos bang around about how great they are, the hatch becomes an option a lot.Killers just wanna bust a nut, and chase down someone who has basically zero chance and get some free points, and are dumb enough to think that bad sports won't DC out of that situation.
Seriously, you got any ideas on a reasonable way to end the standoff? Something that creates a realistic objective that can be done when there's one person left?
Or do you just want the hatch gone, and basically have zero challenge in killing the last person? -
It's an escape they have to work for. And some might have worked harder than others.Master said:
And the survivor isn't entitled to an escapeso both players stand afk doing nothing. Do you really believe that this is a good mechanic?Rebel_Raven said:You're not entitled to the 4th kill.
There's ways to stop hatch plays cold, like slugging the last 2, knowing where the hatch is and intercepting, and such.
The killer is more responsible for opening the hatch than the survivor.
I can't count how many times I desperately worked through 2 gens because the other 3 survivors were being slaughtered.
Do you really think it's a good mechanic to force the survivor to do 2 or 3 more gens while being tunneled mercilessly by the killer?
Do you really think bad sports will stick around for that?
Is that your alternative?
I can't help it if survivors won't go do gens while the killer camps. The killer then has a decision to make. Risk the gates being powered, or leave the hatch creating an opportunity for the survivor to make a hatch play.
And again, the killer can grab the survivor when they try to jump in. The killer can bait them to try.
Or the survivor can try to bait the killer into hitting them and escaping while the killer wipes their blade.
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How the hell not? Kill the 4th person.DocOctober said:@Rebel_Raven said:
DocOctober said:@Rebel_Raven said:
You're not entitled to the 4th kill.
There's ways to stop hatch plays cold, like slugging the last 2, knowing where the hatch is and intercepting, and such.
The killer is more responsible for opening the hatch than the survivor.
All it takes is one DC from a Survive With Friends team and there's absolutely nothing the Killer can do about it.
The Survivor also isn't entitled to the Hatch escape.
Sure there is. Slug the 4th. Hook the 4th.
That strat only works if they know where the hatch is, and can get to it first.The survivor doesn't get entitled to it. They still have to live long enough to find it, and get through it.
Effin'A the killer even has a chance to grab a survivor like they were going through a window and stop the hatch play.
It's still a battle.Which doesn't work in my scenario.
They need to know where the hatch is.
They may abuse the system to open the hatch, but it's not an instant loss.
You still get quitter bonus. -
You do know you can grab someone jumping into the hatch like you can people mid vault, right?
It's not a one hit down, but it's probably the next best thing. -
Back out of the lobby if you can.
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My biggest issue is how are they really going to balance around it?
Make it limited range? It will just encourage third party chat for unlimited range.
Making notifications when people use it? Same.
How do you balance when the team can regularly broadcast your position, and be long gone by then time you get there?
Personally, I wouldn't use it. I hate talking. I'm sure I'd hate listening to other people, too. Some bossy crap telling me how to play, or demanding some meta #########. -
Yeah, the killer does serve it up by letting the hatch open at all and having no plan for it. That isn't doing everything right. It just isn't.Tsulan said:
No, instead of serving the 4th kill on a silver platter, we serve the escape on a silver platter, and even award more points.Rebel_Raven said:@Tsulan said:
Rebel_Raven said:@Tsulan said:
Just remove the hatch.
It's unfair and only rewards failure.
I can't understand survivors which defend the hatch like @Rebel_Raven
Survivors played bad. The last survivor didn't deserve the escape. Yet he gets a free undeserved escape.
What if 4 survivors play good, complete all gens, are about to escape and the gate closes after 3 survivors left? Giving the killer a free undeserved kill. Would you like that system?
Thank you for not calling me a survivor main. :P
I enjoy playing killer when I can.
I defend the hatch because what I said is true. If the hatch ever opens, it's either through an extremely rare key, or it's because the Killer opened it by sacrificing the 3rd. AKA it's often the fault of the killer entirely. A killer that just eats up survivors without stopping, and thinking. Lazy. No strategy. At best, maybe an honest mistake. One the killer has to fix, or pay for.
Not everyone that gets the hatch is some immersed survivor hiding in the corner of the map until the hatch opens.
When I play survivor, I do everything in my power to do gens, save people if needed, buy time however I can, etc. Does that make me a bad survivor?
You gunna make me pay for the other 3 not pulling their weight? Or even other two? 2 bad survivors can screw it up for the whole team.
My rank 11 solo ass was the last to die vs a rank 2 killer in one of the most lopsided trials I've ever been in. Because the wraith slugged the last 2 of us.
You need so much help that you're going to make me finish the rest of the gens, and open the gate as the last person standing? You aren't entitled to that. That's hardly fair, and I'm pretty sure anyone would realize that. These requests often come from people who are 4k crazy.
I don't complain that I, and another get slugged at the end of the match denying the hatch.
One guy did a dick move, and lost my slugged ass, camped the hatch, grabbed me, and dropped me away from the hatch to bleed out, but I didn't come to complain about that.
You're comparing apples and oranges with your killing 1/4 the survivors that played well.
If the killer played well, they'd have stopped to consider the hatch, and have prevented the hatch play, or had some plan to stop the last survivor from making it there. They didn't so they pay for their error. As someone that loves playing killer, I accept this. I've kicked myself plenty for letting the hatch open, but I stopped it plenty, too.
Every time I hear about people complaining about the hatch, a killer's quote keeps popping into mind:
"I should have known you wouldn't stop killing! You're like a big, stupid dog who can't stop eating...even though your master says you've had enough!!!"
-Pamela Voorhees/Freddy Krueger
Course I don't mean it as mean as that.
Hatch only exists to avoid game hostage situations.
Sadly with how our community works, there would be more than enough survivors which would hold the game hostage, just to punish the killer.The only "solutions" against hatch standoffs people have come up with, are to slug the last 2 survivors. Slugging... no one likes slugging. Because it's boring for both sides.
And what's worse, it puts the killer under even more pressure. As if he doesn't has already enough of that.How do you figure it only exists to avoid hostage situations?
I've had plenty of survivors get ballsy and try for the hatch long after the gates were open extending the game unnecessarily.
The killer making the last survivor finish everything left, or die trying maybe?
I mean I can kinda see your point, but I'd rather not assume it all.Slugging can go by quick sometimes. I guess it can draw out the game a lot, too if the killer gets unlucky, and loses someone, or the last 2 are hard to slug for some reason. Had a very long match where the wraith had problems keeping us both down.
Still, most times, slugging goes by quick in my experience. Altruism, and all.
Yeah, it's not great, but in looking for a better alternative, lets not basically serve up the 4th on a silver platter. They may have done well, and got dragged down. Of course they could also be massive potatoes, and not really deserve to stand on the corpses of the other 3 to escape.The hatch standoff in itself is annoying, though. I usually just try to do other gens if I can't beat the killer there, or get killed, or something. If I'm the killer, I'll try not to prolong it by patrolling. Unfortunately the survivor looking for it is usually making the game last longer than it needs to.
Killer did everything right. He applied pressure, he caught everyone, but the last one gets the escape and writes "gg ez", while he totals 11k points.
Yes, truly a deserved victory for that survivor.
Mortal kombat: one player is about to get a perfect win... naaa, let's call it a draw.
CoD: one team completely destroyed the other team... but little timmy from the losing team still gets his match won screen. With his k/d ratio of 0/30...
Killers control the hatch. If they open it, it's on them.
Even if one person has the perk to stand up, it takes time to do that.
And that still means 2 people are alive and the hatch is closed. Find the hatch, and zone them away.
Even if a survivor has a key, they can't use it until certain requirements are met, and they have to survive that long.
Your examples are all screwy. It's more like your CoD team treating capture the flag like a death match and ignoring the sneaky guy moving the flag to score enough points to win.
It's like the MK player winning most of the match, getting cocky, then getting beaten down because they screwed up.
You aren't playing perfectly. You just think you are, and letting your ego get in the way. Then when your mistake becomes apparent and the tables SLIGHTLY turn, because you know, you still have 3 kills (or let enough people escape) you lose your perfect score.
You're going to sit there, and demand any fighting chance a person has be stripped away because you partially won?
Hell, if you're playing "perfectly" there would be 5 gens left to be done and then hatch couldn't open at all even with 3 dead. -
Sure there is. Slug the 4th. Hook the 4th.DocOctober said:@Rebel_Raven said:
You're not entitled to the 4th kill.There's ways to stop hatch plays cold, like slugging the last 2, knowing where the hatch is and intercepting, and such.
The killer is more responsible for opening the hatch than the survivor.
All it takes is one DC from a Survive With Friends team and there's absolutely nothing the Killer can do about it.
The Survivor also isn't entitled to the Hatch escape.
That strat only works if they know where the hatch is, and can get to it first.
The survivor doesn't get entitled to it. They still have to live long enough to find it, and get through it.
Effin'A the killer even has a chance to grab a survivor like they were going through a window and stop the hatch play.
It's still a battle. -
@Tsulan said:
Rebel_Raven said:@Tsulan said:
Just remove the hatch.
It's unfair and only rewards failure.
I can't understand survivors which defend the hatch like @Rebel_Raven
Survivors played bad. The last survivor didn't deserve the escape. Yet he gets a free undeserved escape.
What if 4 survivors play good, complete all gens, are about to escape and the gate closes after 3 survivors left? Giving the killer a free undeserved kill. Would you like that system?
Thank you for not calling me a survivor main. :P
I enjoy playing killer when I can.
I defend the hatch because what I said is true. If the hatch ever opens, it's either through an extremely rare key, or it's because the Killer opened it by sacrificing the 3rd. AKA it's often the fault of the killer entirely. A killer that just eats up survivors without stopping, and thinking. Lazy. No strategy. At best, maybe an honest mistake. One the killer has to fix, or pay for.
Not everyone that gets the hatch is some immersed survivor hiding in the corner of the map until the hatch opens.
When I play survivor, I do everything in my power to do gens, save people if needed, buy time however I can, etc. Does that make me a bad survivor?
You gunna make me pay for the other 3 not pulling their weight? Or even other two? 2 bad survivors can screw it up for the whole team.
My rank 11 solo ass was the last to die vs a rank 2 killer in one of the most lopsided trials I've ever been in. Because the wraith slugged the last 2 of us.
You need so much help that you're going to make me finish the rest of the gens, and open the gate as the last person standing? You aren't entitled to that. That's hardly fair, and I'm pretty sure anyone would realize that. These requests often come from people who are 4k crazy.
I don't complain that I, and another get slugged at the end of the match denying the hatch.
One guy did a dick move, and lost my slugged ass, camped the hatch, grabbed me, and dropped me away from the hatch to bleed out, but I didn't come to complain about that.
You're comparing apples and oranges with your killing 1/4 the survivors that played well.
If the killer played well, they'd have stopped to consider the hatch, and have prevented the hatch play, or had some plan to stop the last survivor from making it there. They didn't so they pay for their error. As someone that loves playing killer, I accept this. I've kicked myself plenty for letting the hatch open, but I stopped it plenty, too.
Every time I hear about people complaining about the hatch, a killer's quote keeps popping into mind:
"I should have known you wouldn't stop killing! You're like a big, stupid dog who can't stop eating...even though your master says you've had enough!!!"
-Pamela Voorhees/Freddy Krueger
Course I don't mean it as mean as that.
Hatch only exists to avoid game hostage situations.
Sadly with how our community works, there would be more than enough survivors which would hold the game hostage, just to punish the killer.The only "solutions" against hatch standoffs people have come up with, are to slug the last 2 survivors. Slugging... no one likes slugging. Because it's boring for both sides.
And what's worse, it puts the killer under even more pressure. As if he doesn't has already enough of that.How do you figure it only exists to avoid hostage situations?
I've had plenty of survivors get ballsy and try for the hatch long after the gates were open extending the game unnecessarily.
The killer making the last survivor finish everything left, or die trying maybe?
I mean I can kinda see your point, but I'd rather not assume it all.Slugging can go by quick sometimes. I guess it can draw out the game a lot, too if the killer gets unlucky, and loses someone, or the last 2 are hard to slug for some reason. Had a very long match where the wraith had problems keeping us both down.
Still, most times, slugging goes by quick in my experience. Altruism, and all.
Yeah, it's not great, but in looking for a better alternative, lets not basically serve up the 4th on a silver platter. They may have done well, and got dragged down. Of course they could also be massive potatoes, and not really deserve to stand on the corpses of the other 3 to escape.The hatch standoff in itself is annoying, though. I usually just try to do other gens if I can't beat the killer there, or get killed, or something. If I'm the killer, I'll try not to prolong it by patrolling. Unfortunately the survivor looking for it is usually making the game last longer than it needs to.
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@Tsulan said:
Just remove the hatch.
It's unfair and only rewards failure.I can't understand survivors which defend the hatch like @Rebel_Raven
Survivors played bad. The last survivor didn't deserve the escape. Yet he gets a free undeserved escape.
What if 4 survivors play good, complete all gens, are about to escape and the gate closes after 3 survivors left? Giving the killer a free undeserved kill. Would you like that system?Thank you for not calling me a survivor main. :P
I enjoy playing killer when I can.I defend the hatch because what I said is true. If the hatch ever opens, it's either through an extremely rare key, or it's because the Killer opened it by sacrificing the 3rd. AKA it's often the fault of the killer entirely. A killer that just eats up survivors without stopping, and thinking. Lazy. No strategy. At best, maybe an honest mistake. One the killer has to fix, or pay for.
Not everyone that gets the hatch is some immersed survivor hiding in the corner of the map until the hatch opens.
When I play survivor, I do everything in my power to do gens, save people if needed, buy time however I can, etc. Does that make me a bad survivor?
You gunna make me pay for the other 3 not pulling their weight? Or even other two? 2 bad survivors can screw it up for the whole team.
My rank 11 solo ass was the last to die vs a rank 2 killer in one of the most lopsided trials I've ever been in. Because the wraith slugged the last 2 of us.You need so much help that you're going to make me finish the rest of the gens, and open the gate as the last person standing? You aren't entitled to that. That's hardly fair, and I'm pretty sure anyone would realize that. These requests often come from people who are 4k crazy.
I don't complain that I, and another get slugged at the end of the match denying the hatch.
One guy did a dick move, and lost my slugged ass, camped the hatch, grabbed me, and dropped me away from the hatch to bleed out, but I didn't come to complain about that.You're comparing apples and oranges with your killing 1/4 the survivors that played well.
If the killer played well, they'd have stopped to consider the hatch, and have prevented the hatch play, or had some plan to stop the last survivor from making it there. They didn't so they pay for their error. As someone that loves playing killer, I accept this. I've kicked myself plenty for letting the hatch open, but I stopped it plenty, too.Every time I hear about people complaining about the hatch, a killer's quote keeps popping into mind:
"I should have known you wouldn't stop killing! You're like a big, stupid dog who can't stop eating...even though your master says you've had enough!!!"
-Pamela Voorhees/Freddy Krueger
Course I don't mean it as mean as that. -
You're not entitled to the 4th kill.
There's ways to stop hatch plays cold, like slugging the last 2, knowing where the hatch is and intercepting, and such.
The killer is more responsible for opening the hatch than the survivor.
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Flashlights destroy hag traps.
Sure, you aren't supposed to know you're against a hag, but you can't counter everyone all the time.
Or maybe hit up a treasure chest and hope you get a flashljght. -
SenzuDuck said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
Now couple the first part with the errors, and dodging SWFs.
Couple that with SWF being extremely common meaning less matches to rank as a killer. Doesn't mean I don't test the waters of playing against SWFs, mind you.
Add in a dash of playing more survivor, and tada. Less time playing killer, and there's several good reasons for it.
I do admit I probably could have worded that more coherently.Good god, the excuses.
"I dodge SFW"
"I don't dodge swf all the time so you're wrong nurr nurr"Rank 15 is what, like 3 pips to get into rank 14? I can't remember because I haven't been that low ranked since I started playing killer.
So you do SWF. Meaning that you coordinate with your teammates.
I never limited my issues to voice comms. Voice comms just means easier real time strategy, and easier spreading of info.Lol, if "coordinated" means playing with who ever is in my chat at the time (not a predetermined team) then sure, I "coordinate" lol.
Practicing with them heavily to put plays together is also a thing. Not something randoms get to do. Not something this game was balanced around, either.
Yea man, I read the minds of the people I'm in SWF with so we're all connected.
and i certainly don't "practice plays" ######### does this even mean, do you think I go into KYF and put strats together? lol"hey guys, if someone is on the hook, do three tbags at the killer and then get on a gen" lmfao practicing heavily to put plays together BAHAHAHA
That also means that the people you SWF participate in SWF. You sure they aren't using voice comms at all?
Yea, I'm pretty sure, I mean they could if they want, but again, as a rank one killer swf has never been an issue for me because I can actually play the game.
No doubt SWF is what helped this game last. I never said to get rid of it.
But why are you worried about making dodging SWF easier?I'm not worried about a thing, but killers dodge lobbies enough as it is, it's stupid af, you're rank 15 you should be getting better at the game not dodging everything that gives this game a challenge.
Killer dodge because
Clothing
Items
Suspected SWF
Too much of the same character (especially Claudette)Killers routinely depip for easier games, and so do survivors from what I read on this forum.
and your point? I don't think either should depip, but they do it for "more fun games" not to specifically target a certain rank.
High rank is punishment for some people.
Don't play the game for 12 hours a day then? Rank 1 can be achieved by almost anyone that plays enough matches, you pip more often than you depip, unless you're a certain someone stuck at rank 15.
If they depip, it means they are more skilled than their rank let's on, and when it's survivors going against a killer in SWF, guess what? The killer is facing people better than what their rank shows, and are likely to get stomped, bullied, etc.
I also love how it couldn't simply be people are just better than you, they MUST have deranked, lol.
You seem to have problems seeing the forest because you're looking at the trees. Lots of reasons I don't play killer 12 hours a day.
Ok, you admit that you don't experience low rank games, so how can you speak with certainty on the environment there to begin with?
You don't have a regular team, so do you at all filter who you SWF with?
Because matchmaking doesn't always play fair with ranks. A lvl 15 can get paired with a lvl 8 vs a l low level killer to say the least.
Which means that you may end up beating up a low rank killer because you say you never dodge.
Coordination and practice means a lot. Like the difference a professional basket ball team (you stream, and play lots because it's basically a job, and are consistently red rank so you don't have much choice but to be good at the game so you're in the former) vs a team of random people off the street in a basketball tournament.
You don't think most SWFs aren't friends regularly getting together?
You really do seem worried about SWF filters, SWF lobbies, and maybe even the idea of Killers getting bonuses for going against SWF.
I'll admit that by reading the forums, killers do dodge for a lot of reasons, but I don't buy it as a reason to deny people more efficient dodging of SWF.
Or bonuses for going against SWFs.
There's already lots of dodging.
More fun for the depipping people might be bullying, and easier games. Regardless, they are better than their rank let's on because they depip on purpose, so they end up vs people who are more legitimately that rank, and likely have an advantage.
And again, I never said I'm stuck at any rank.
Like you said, if people play enough they can rank up.
I simply don't have the time to devote a large part of my day, or evening to playing killer.
If the others communicate, even if you don't, it kinda blows your argument out of the water. You don't know if they do or not.
I'd rather get stomped by solo players than SWF any day.
And I'd like to know for sure if I do, or not.
So label SWFs. Even if I dodge SWFs, I know they're solo, and at worst connecting for party chat.
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Yeah, it's dumb, but survivors and killers both tend to get fixated so hard on one objective that they lose sight of the rest.
Survivors with the hatch play often only want the hatch, no matter what.
Killers learn this, and obsess over blocking the hatch, but also obsess over hooking and sacrificing that stopping the hatch play from even starting isn't a thing to them. -
As much as I hate the idea of it, the best option is either:
1: basically make all aura reading perks base kit
2: full blown, unrestricted voice chat since anyone that wants that will just go third party. Anything less will probably just make people go third party.
And doing either of that will require extreme changes to the power of killers, and it will have to be simultaneously done, or close to it. If not, I'm sure it will do massive harm to the killer population until balance is restored. Or the game will just up and die. -
Now couple the first part with the errors, and dodging SWFs.SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Because the rank reset happened right before the Halloween event and I let people harvest, and escape all through the event while I went after vials.
I didn't make that clear?and the event ended a while ago too, but still in rank 15? ok
Beyond that, I'm lobby dodging SWFs which are really common because I want to have fun, and playing survivor.
I also have work, and there's network errors and the 8014 error that popped up recently eating into my time.Your whole complaint is being stuck in rank 15 but also admit you dodge SWFs so it isn't SWFs keeping you in rank 15?
You're looking for excuses to discredit me, and cling to playing SWF and praying there's never wide spread, or easy dodging.
I do play SWF you're correct, but I also don't use comms because when I play SWF I'm streaming sooooo
Likely because you fear it will make SWF games extinct, and refuse to say why, either by not realizing why, or living in denial.
SWF is the biggest reason this game even has people playing it, name one game that is multiplayer but you can't play with friends that is successful.
As a side note, you're not at all worried depipped, and imbalanced SWF going after rank 15 and below killers might be detrimental?
Rank ones are not targeting rank 15s, get your tin foil hat off.As you stated, you dodge SWF but still in rank 15, so it's not them it's once again, proven by your own comments to be an issue with the way you play and nothing else.
Teams of 3/4 SWF isn't as common, it's more likely a 2x 2 SWFS or 2 SWFs with two randoms. Either way they aren't communicating with each other and once again can't blame it on a communication thing.
Couple that with SWF being extremely common meaning less matches to rank as a killer. Doesn't mean I don't test the waters of playing against SWFs, mind you.
Add in a dash of playing more survivor, and tada. Less time playing killer, and there's several good reasons for it.
I do admit I probably could have worded that more coherently.
So you do SWF. Meaning that you coordinate with your teammates.
I never limited my issues to voice comms. Voice comms just means easier real time strategy, and easier spreading of info.
Practicing with them heavily to put plays together is also a thing. Not something randoms get to do. Not something this game was balanced around, either.
That also means that the people you SWF participate in SWF. You sure they aren't using voice comms at all?
No doubt SWF is what helped this game last. I never said to get rid of it.
But why are you worried about making dodging SWF easier?
Killers routinely depip for easier games, and so do survivors from what I read on this forum.
High rank is punishment for some people.
If they depip, it means they are more skilled than their rank let's on, and when it's survivors going against a killer in SWF, guess what? The killer is facing people better than what their rank shows, and are likely to get stomped, bullied, etc.
Oh, you're also exclusively high rank, yeah?
So how do experience anything at my rank to speak with such certainty? -
Because the rank reset happened right before the Halloween event and I let people harvest, and escape all through the event while I went after vials.SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
SenzuDuck said:@powerbats said:
This ^ if you can't get out of rank 15 then you have nothing to blame but your own lack of skill and if Rebel thinks it's bad now wait till after rank reset.
and these are the people we have on this forum that think they're balance experts.
feelssadman
Ok, now you're getting pathetic. You're the one grasping for excuses at this point. You even read back, by your own admission.
I never said I "can't" rank up past 15.
This is getting towards bullying.
I did read back by my own admission
Also, excuses for what? Lol.
"Oh, and I'm drifting between rank 16, and 15. "
Is what you said, not between rank 10 and 15, or 11 and 15 or 12 and 15. You basically imply you can't get past rank 15 with this comment, you may as well have said you can't get passed rank 15.
I didn't make that clear?
Beyond that, I'm lobby dodging SWFs which are really common because I want to have fun, and playing survivor.
I also have work, and there's network errors and the 8014 error that popped up recently eating into my time.
You're looking for excuses to discredit me, and cling to playing SWF and praying there's never wide spread, or easy dodging.
Likely because you fear it will make SWF games extinct, and refuse to say why, either by not realizing why, or living in denial.
As a side note, you're not at all worried depipped, and imbalanced SWF going after rank 15 and below killers might be detrimental? -
My advice is to play stealthy, and learn how to hide, and run and hide. Killers have bad vision.
The less the killer sees you, the less they can do to you. This works for most any killer.
You can disarm traps. It alerts the trapper when you do, so it's best avoided unless you want to be a distraction, or annoying.
Traps by default have a very small activation radius. If there's one in the middle of a narrow path, I'm almost certain you can hug the wall and go by it.
A lot of trappers will put the traps near important stuff. Pallets, gens, hooked survivors, windows, etc. Approach those with caution.
As for the Spirit, when she uses her power, she can only see scratches, and hear.
If you don't run, she can only hear you. If you're silent, she basically can't track you, and has to guess where you went, or stop using her power.
My suggestion in general is to practice timing of pallet drops, play killer and see where people take you for loops and learn those to improve chases.
Get an evasion maneuver like lithe, sprint burst, dead hard, or balanced landing based on your preferences.
And maybe invest in an aura reading perk to help you know where the killer is, either by learning who is being chased, or by reading the aura of the killer theirselves. Or when the match starts, hide a little and wait for someone else to get chased, then make sure you're far away from that, doing gens, or going after Hex Totems.
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It seemed good until I sat down and read it.
It speeds up everything but movement, and attack.
I reckon it's there to help synergize with NOED, Remember Me, and Blood Warden so you can mop up endgame faster while people are trapped by chasing them faster as it helps where NOED doesn't.
It seems weird to build almost purely for end game (which Freddy does it seems), but I guess such a build is for gen rushers.
Question is, does Fire Up help that much? -
It's some weird tradition they cling to that they demand a the chase out regardless of how the match went.
I experimented during the Halloween event, from being nice to, well, not, using a variety of play styles.
There's little that will dissuade them from camping, in borderline absolute safety, until they get chased out.
Some say they want points and to give points (any killers feel its substantial vs time spent?), some want points because they run before getting hit, some are trying to say "GG", some are trying to taunt.
The most common reason is altruism, but we aren't talking about waiting to see if everyone makes it out because everyone is already in the gate room.
As a Survivor, I like thanking the killer by leaving asap, outside of altruism moves (towards survivors, or killers, depending), and treating the event like I'm running for my life.
Kinda breaks immersion to stay behind and taunt in near absolute safety.
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I never said i "can't" rank up. I've played fine through the rank resets before.powerbats said:@SenzuDuck said:
@se05239 said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
I have 3 options in how I'd like SWF to be dealt with:
1: mark SWF participants clearly.
2: filter SWFs out of lobbies for killers and survivors as an option.
3: increase blood points for killers vs SWFs proportionally to how any SWF participants are in the match.
One, two, and/or all 3. Pick one.1 and 3 together would be awesome. I rather not choose an Opt-Out option unless it was the last resort.
No amount of help will make up for his lack of ability to play as killer.
He's rank 15, I'm sorry but if you can't get out of that rank SWF isn't the issue - as a killer you can dodge the mere sniff of people being SWF, you can dodge 1000 lobbies in a row until you have survivors that load in 5 minutes apart to guarantee a solo team.
There is no excuse for "being stuck" in rank 15.
This ^ if you can't get out of rank 15 then you have nothing to blame but your own lack of skill and if Rebel thinks it's bad now wait till after rank reset.
Senzu saying I "can't" is purely imagined.
I suggest dropping that notion. -
Ok, now you're getting pathetic. You're the one grasping for excuses at this point. You even read back, by your own admission.SenzuDuck said:@powerbats said:
This ^ if you can't get out of rank 15 then you have nothing to blame but your own lack of skill and if Rebel thinks it's bad now wait till after rank reset.
and these are the people we have on this forum that think they're balance experts.
feelssadman
I never said I "can't" rank up past 15.
This is getting towards bullying. -
@SenzuDuck said:
Rebel_Raven said:@SenzuDuck said:
@Rebel_Raven said: SenzuDuck said: @Rebel_Raven said: It would be nice if you stopped normalizing your gaming experience and expecting it to be the same across the board.
3, and 4 man sets are that common. Again, you gloss over the massive gap. A 3 or 4 swf against someone who doesn't have the time to get the arsenal to fight them. And again, the refusal to admit that SWFs can pretty easily break the game with coordination and communication. Nope, it's all on the killer to overcome that.
P.s. I never called survivors OP. It's SWFs, and how common, and broken they get I have issues with. They aren't broken if you actually practice and want to perfect a killer. Again, if you're killing 2/3/4 of them, well done. If you're killing 2/3 of them and coming here complaining then you're in the wrong If you're killing 0 of them, EVERY game you're just not that good. You can LITERALLY kill them, you can tunnel them, and no survivor can stop that, unless they want to be on the hook too. With SWFs by the time I've tunneled one, and hooked them, the gens are done, or close to it. That's basically the strategy they use. A decoy or two to buy time, and by the time you hook them, the trial is about done. That's no fun. I don't want to fight over getting 1k every damn time. I don't have NOED rank 3, and the updates were just done so now it kinda matters less. Even if I did run it, the SWFs are probably smart enough to kill it quick. It gives crap for BP, and the SWF are pricks when they're at the exit gate about it.
It's like I'm fighting depipped veterans.
Yea dude, only SWF players do gens when someone is being chased facepalm Stop blaming SWF for the reason you’re not very good at this game.
I’d bet the majority of matches you play have maybe a one 2Man group but you’d still blame them on losing 😂
At least I don't need SWF to do decently.
SWF is easy mode.
How much of a handicap do survivors need against me? Apparently enough that they're afraid to go solo.
Such a deluded statement.
There probably are some people that play SWF only, and that’s because it’s fun.
There are probably some people that only play solos because thats what they enjoy.
Theres probably some people that play both styles because they enjoy playing with friends and enjoy playing solo.
but let’s not pretend the people that play both suddenly become bad at having a killer chase them because they’re on solo.
that same person running you in an swf is going to run you just the same in solo. But yea, it’s an SWF only thing, sure.
game is easy as killer whether you’re playing against solo or swf, they all play the same you just need an excuse for playing poorly.
Now THAT is a deluded statement. If you don't see the advantages SWFs have that make them play differently, I don't know what world you're living in.
We may as well just stop talking to each other if you actually think people in a party play the same as people flying solo. -
Huntress, and Freddy. Their songs get stuck in my head, and it sounds like they're close when they're not.
Not a fan of Doctor or Wraith. They're extremely hard to get away from. Wraith I get with his perks, but Doctor is like a homing missile even when he's bare bones. I don't really have the same tracking ability myself.
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@SenzuDuck said:
@Rebel_Raven said:
SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
It would be nice if you stopped normalizing your gaming experience and expecting it to be the same across the board.
3, and 4 man sets are that common. Again, you gloss over the massive gap. A 3 or 4 swf against someone who doesn't have the time to get the arsenal to fight them. And again, the refusal to admit that SWFs can pretty easily break the game with coordination and communication. Nope, it's all on the killer to overcome that.
P.s. I never called survivors OP. It's SWFs, and how common, and broken they get I have issues with.
They aren't broken if you actually practice and want to perfect a killer.
Again, if you're killing 2/3/4 of them, well done.
If you're killing 2/3 of them and coming here complaining then you're in the wrong
If you're killing 0 of them, EVERY game you're just not that good.
You can LITERALLY kill them, you can tunnel them, and no survivor can stop that, unless they want to be on the hook too.
With SWFs by the time I've tunneled one, and hooked them, the gens are done, or close to it.
That's basically the strategy they use. A decoy or two to buy time, and by the time you hook them, the trial is about done.
That's no fun.
I don't want to fight over getting 1k every damn time. I don't have NOED rank 3, and the updates were just done so now it kinda matters less. Even if I did run it, the SWFs are probably smart enough to kill it quick.
It gives crap for BP, and the SWF are pricks when they're at the exit gate about it.
It's like I'm fighting depipped veterans.Yea dude, only SWF players do gens when someone is being chased facepalm
Stop blaming SWF for the reason you’re not very good at this game.
I’d bet the majority of matches you play have maybe a one 2Man group but you’d still blame them on losing 😂
At least I don't need SWF to do decently.
SWF is easy mode.
How much of a handicap do survivors need against me? Apparently enough that they're afraid to go solo. -
Coz Nea keeps stealing them.
-
Thank you for reminding me about the Disorderlies. That takes me back.
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With SWFs by the time I've tunneled one, and hooked them, the gens are done, or close to it.SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
It would be nice if you stopped normalizing your gaming experience and expecting it to be the same across the board.3, and 4 man sets are that common.
Again, you gloss over the massive gap. A 3 or 4 swf against someone who doesn't have the time to get the arsenal to fight them.
And again, the refusal to admit that SWFs can pretty easily break the game with coordination and communication. Nope, it's all on the killer to overcome that.
P.s. I never called survivors OP. It's SWFs, and how common, and broken they get I have issues with.
They aren't broken if you actually practice and want to perfect a killer.
Again, if you're killing 2/3/4 of them, well done.
If you're killing 2/3 of them and coming here complaining then you're in the wrong
If you're killing 0 of them, EVERY game you're just not that good.You can LITERALLY kill them, you can tunnel them, and no survivor can stop that, unless they want to be on the hook too.
That's basically the strategy they use. A decoy or two to buy time, and by the time you hook them, the trial is about done.
That's no fun.
I don't want to fight over getting 1k every damn time. I don't have NOED rank 3, and the updates were just done so now it kinda matters less. Even if I did run it, the SWFs are probably smart enough to kill it quick.
It gives crap for BP, and the SWF are pricks when they're at the exit gate about it.
It's like I'm fighting depipped veterans. -
I approve of Mins high rank.
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Have you considered hanging around as little as possible when NOED is in play? Or breaking totems?
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Survivor is great. Win some, lose some. It could be better but I wouldn't say it's bad at all.
Killers are doing ok.
I'm Still pretty annoyed at SWF, but hey, if you're into masochism, go for it.
And survivors feeling entitled to the chase out no matter what. -
Slug the last 2, and stop the hatch play.
To gamble and find the hatch before the survivor does.
Slug the obsession, and save them for last, or make them DS you early in the game.
Or dribble the obsession.
If you have DS and aren't the obsession? Boil over? Try and zone the killer so they aren't near hooks to buy time? -
Not particularly more BP that I've noticed.July said:@Rebel_Raven said:
TheBean said:@Rebel_Raven said:
That's basically it.
Git gud vs people breaking the game.
It's fun for the survivors, so you gotta deal with it.
Hey, pros at this game can totally win, so it's balanced! You just have to be a pro gamer at this! Even mods advocating making the game harder for killers by buffing solos to SWF level, apparently not understanding the advantages SWFs have. Oh, theeeeennnn killers will get buffed. After who knows how long of having to deal with the huge imbalance.
Not only won't they remove Swf (I'm not advocating for it) but they sure won't mark them, or filter them because they know people will start actively dodging them into extinction because no one wants to have to fight that hard against people breaking the game.
Wow... This is one of the worst posts I've seen so far.
So... Is everyone supposed to be a pro?...Is that what you are saying?....So if you can't beat the SWF then you aren't a pro... So... Is everyone supposed to be a pro?... Seems like you think all killers are supposed to be a pro and everyone shouldn't have an issue with SWF.....
So.. you don't think it makes sense to bring solo players up to SWF levels... Then balance around Killers VS SWF?...
You'd rather have it balanced around solo players... So SOMEHOW.. bring SWF down to solo players... Then balance Killers VS solo?... Where have you been in the past 2 years... Did you think that way worked?
Wow... I have never seen such a crappy post.
You do know the Devs can't do anything about players using VOIP right?... So how in the world are they supposed to bring SWF players down to solo players?... But you'd rather then remove SWF so the game dies. I see.
I have never advocated for the removal of SWF aside from maybe some of my first posts.
It totally makes sense that people will want to play with friends.
I even said as much in the post you are quoting.
I've played games without such options, and it sucked.
I understand how important SWF is. Someone made good points on it, and I get it.I do not advocate for nerfs, or bringing people down. Survivors on the whole are fine, more or less. There may be room for adjustments, but I'll let others worry about that.
It's the communication and organization that ticks me off. Aka SWF getting sweaty and breaking the game to beat me, which they can't seem to help doing.
This notion of going pro, git gud, and so forth is the only option that seems acceptable to provide to me.
I'm not the one saying it, they are.Hey, balance killer vs SWF! Let's do that. Wait, they want to make solo players better first, and just even out the gap, then maybe help out the killer. If it's even possible to make them that dangerous.
I have 3 options in how I'd like SWF to be dealt with:
1: mark SWF participants clearly.
2: filter SWFs out of lobbies for killers and survivors as an option.
3: increase blood points for killers vs SWFs proportionally to how any SWF participants are in the match.
One, two, and/or all 3. Pick one.No nerfs.
No buffs in particular.
No removal of SWF. if you think this will make SWF games extinct, maybe consider why?Don't Killers already get more BP's ?
I mean, they will most likely always get more BP's, even if they do poorlyPerfect game for Survivor ( means he managed to escape, did a fair amount of gens and totems and also got chased ) roughly around 20K BP's
While the Killer, even if he does poorly ( He either hooked people few times, or Killed 1 and maybe hooked 1 or more) he gets around 17-18K
Not if the killer does poorly.
And certainly not for what is expected of a killer to play an SWF vs 2, 3, or 4 solos.
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I have never advocated for the removal of SWF aside from maybe some of my first posts.TheBean said:@Rebel_Raven said:
That's basically it.
Git gud vs people breaking the game.
It's fun for the survivors, so you gotta deal with it.Hey, pros at this game can totally win, so it's balanced! You just have to be a pro gamer at this!
Even mods advocating making the game harder for killers by buffing solos to SWF level, apparently not understanding the advantages SWFs have.
Oh, theeeeennnn killers will get buffed. After who knows how long of having to deal with the huge imbalance.
Not only won't they remove Swf (I'm not advocating for it) but they sure won't mark them, or filter them because they know people will start actively dodging them into extinction because no one wants to have to fight that hard against people breaking the game.
Wow... This is one of the worst posts I've seen so far.
So... Is everyone supposed to be a pro?...Is that what you are saying?....So if you can't beat the SWF then you aren't a pro... So... Is everyone supposed to be a pro?... Seems like you think all killers are supposed to be a pro and everyone shouldn't have an issue with SWF.....
So.. you don't think it makes sense to bring solo players up to SWF levels... Then balance around Killers VS SWF?...
You'd rather have it balanced around solo players... So SOMEHOW.. bring SWF down to solo players... Then balance Killers VS solo?... Where have you been in the past 2 years... Did you think that way worked?
Wow... I have never seen such a crappy post.
You do know the Devs can't do anything about players using VOIP right?... So how in the world are they supposed to bring SWF players down to solo players?... But you'd rather then remove SWF so the game dies. I see.
It totally makes sense that people will want to play with friends.
I even said as much in the post you are quoting.
I've played games without such options, and it sucked.
I understand how important SWF is. Someone made good points on it, and I get it.
I do not advocate for nerfs, or bringing people down. Survivors on the whole are fine, more or less. There may be room for adjustments, but I'll let others worry about that.
It's the communication and organization that ticks me off. Aka SWF getting sweaty and breaking the game to beat me, which they can't seem to help doing.
This notion of going pro, git gud, and so forth is the only option that seems acceptable to provide to me.
I'm not the one saying it, they are.
Hey, balance killer vs SWF! Let's do that. Wait, they want to make solo players better first, and just even out the gap, then maybe help out the killer. If it's even possible to make them that dangerous.
I have 3 options in how I'd like SWF to be dealt with:
1: mark SWF participants clearly.
2: filter SWFs out of lobbies for killers and survivors as an option.
3: increase blood points for killers vs SWFs proportionally to how any SWF participants are in the match.
One, two, and/or all 3. Pick one.
No nerfs.
No buffs in particular.
No removal of SWF. if you think this will make SWF games extinct, maybe consider why?
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They aren't broken if you go pro, perfect the game, and overlook that they're playing in easy mode.SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
It would be nice if you stopped normalizing your gaming experience and expecting it to be the same across the board.3, and 4 man sets are that common.
Again, you gloss over the massive gap. A 3 or 4 swf against someone who doesn't have the time to get the arsenal to fight them.
And again, the refusal to admit that SWFs can pretty easily break the game with coordination and communication. Nope, it's all on the killer to overcome that.
P.s. I never called survivors OP. It's SWFs, and how common, and broken they get I have issues with.
They aren't broken if you actually practice and want to perfect a killer.
Again, if you're killing 2/3/4 of them, well done.
If you're killing 2/3 of them and coming here complaining then you're in the wrong
If you're killing 0 of them, EVERY game you're just not that good.You can LITERALLY kill them, you can tunnel them, and no survivor can stop that, unless they want to be on the hook too.
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What am I spending my BP on? Apparently having to get an OP anti swf build.ScottJund said:
I would much rather the solution be "get better at killer" than "remove SWF and kill Dead by Daylight." Solo survivor is weak enough and any nerfs to SWF will probably indirectly affect them.Rebel_Raven said:
It would be nice if you stopped normalizing your gaming experience and expecting it to be the same across the board.SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
ScottJund said:I still don't get why killers complain about SWF. Like you realize if you see a 4 man group you now have no moral objections to using the most brokenly OP killer ######### you can bring, right?
SWF kinda doesnt mean a damn thing when you're an omegablink ebony mori Nurse or an Iridescent Head Huntress, instasaw Billy, Tombstone Piece Myers, etc. Killers have equally overpowered tools at their disposal.
Assuming the killer even has access to that.
Swf is way easier to get access to.
4 Man SWF isn't that common, stop pretending it is.
If you don't have these killer addons then you're not playing much anyway, thus implying you're probably not very good and the issue lies within your skill and not the "OP SURVIVORS".
If you were investing time into these killers you'd have the addons you want to use when you need to use them.
3, and 4 man sets are that common.
Again, you gloss over the massive gap. A 3 or 4 swf against someone who doesn't have the time to get the arsenal to fight them.
And again, the refusal to admit that SWFs can pretty easily break the game with coordination and communication. Nope, it's all on the killer to overcome that.
Instead of maybe some fun, interesting seeming builds.
I have not advocated the removal of SWF from the game, nor have I advocated for survivor nerfs.
I just feel like 4 solos are much more of a fair shake vs an SWF, and having to swim up stream to deal with the almost constant SWFs isn't right, nor fun.
And there are alternatives. I.e. more efficient lobby dodging. -
It would be nice if you stopped normalizing your gaming experience and expecting it to be the same across the board.SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
ScottJund said:I still don't get why killers complain about SWF. Like you realize if you see a 4 man group you now have no moral objections to using the most brokenly OP killer ######### you can bring, right?
SWF kinda doesnt mean a damn thing when you're an omegablink ebony mori Nurse or an Iridescent Head Huntress, instasaw Billy, Tombstone Piece Myers, etc. Killers have equally overpowered tools at their disposal.
Assuming the killer even has access to that.
Swf is way easier to get access to.
4 Man SWF isn't that common, stop pretending it is.
If you don't have these killer addons then you're not playing much anyway, thus implying you're probably not very good and the issue lies within your skill and not the "OP SURVIVORS".
If you were investing time into these killers you'd have the addons you want to use when you need to use them.
3, and 4 man sets are that common.
Again, you gloss over the massive gap. A 3 or 4 swf against someone who doesn't have the time to get the arsenal to fight them.
And again, the refusal to admit that SWFs can pretty easily break the game with coordination and communication. Nope, it's all on the killer to overcome that.
P.s. I never called survivors OP. It's SWFs, and how common, and broken they get I have issues with. -
Assuming the killer even has access to that.ScottJund said:I still don't get why killers complain about SWF. Like you realize if you see a 4 man group you now have no moral objections to using the most brokenly OP killer ######### you can bring, right?
SWF kinda doesnt mean a damn thing when you're an omegablink ebony mori Nurse or an Iridescent Head Huntress, instasaw Billy, Tombstone Piece Myers, etc. Killers have equally overpowered tools at their disposal.
Swf is way easier to get access to.
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Well, good for you.SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Aka git gud to beat people playing easier matches, and likely doing game breaking strats.
Let's stop pretending that SWF isn't basically as different as night and day from multiple solos.
What is the issue of being told to play better and take advantage of stupid things SWF do?
Sometimes you're going to come across a group of survivors SWF or not that are just better than you.
I'd have a hard time believe you're any good at this game if EVERY swf 2+ man group you play against reks your day tbh.
What's the issue with not wanting to admit that SWFs have stupid advantages in game, and often break it?
The game isn't balanced vs sweaty SWFs. It's only up to the killer to make up for their advantages.
Because I've never once played against an SWF team that's made me think "Better go to the forums and cry about how op they are" because I've never found them to be an issue when playing against them.
It's not just one team, it's how common they are, and how night and day they are to 4 solos, or even a 2 man, and how often they abuse their advantages.
It's the slog of dealing with these people and it not being worth my time to get barely anything done before they're ready to go.
Why is it ok for survivors to break the game, and entirely on the killer to deal with it?
If survivors started teaming with killers you'd be mad at the advantage given to the killer.
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What's the issue with not wanting to admit that SWFs have stupid advantages in game, and often break it?SenzuDuck said:@Rebel_Raven said:
Aka git gud to beat people playing easier matches, and likely doing game breaking strats.Let's stop pretending that SWF isn't basically as different as night and day from multiple solos.
What is the issue of being told to play better and take advantage of stupid things SWF do?
Sometimes you're going to come across a group of survivors SWF or not that are just better than you.
I'd have a hard time believe you're any good at this game if EVERY swf 2+ man group you play against reks your day tbh.
The game isn't balanced vs sweaty SWFs. It's only up to the killer to make up for their advantages.
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That's basically it.Giche said:I'm simply gonna copy/paste what i already said in another thread :
So the meme changed from "4 man SWF aren't that common" to "4 man SWF aren't that hard to beat".
Now promoted by mod ?
Can someone explain to me how peoples can say to paying customers :
"We know it's unfair... so what ? We have fun with it.
Deal with it or move on, removing it would kill the game huur huur"
Git gud vs people breaking the game.
It's fun for the survivors, so you gotta deal with it.
Hey, pros at this game can totally win, so it's balanced! You just have to be a pro gamer at this!
Even mods advocating making the game harder for killers by buffing solos to SWF level, apparently not understanding the advantages SWFs have.
Oh, theeeeennnn killers will get buffed. After who knows how long of having to deal with the huge imbalance.
Not only won't they remove Swf (I'm not advocating for it) but they sure won't mark them, or filter them because they know people will start actively dodging them into extinction because no one wants to have to fight that hard against people breaking the game.
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Aka git gud to beat people playing easier matches, and likely doing game breaking strats.powerbats said:@Peanits Had it right and @Giche and you've already been told that's a bunch of baloney, swf aren't that hard to beat most of the time. The very coordinated ones are indeed rare although they do exist yet you can still get 1-2 of them if not more.
You and the rest of the killers using this as an excuse refuse to admit that may'be you're the issue here not the swf groups. Marth can go in and destroy 4 man swf groups, others can as well. They didn't get to the point of being so good by blaming everything else for their refusal to get better.
I hit rank 1 by never dodging, never bringing Ruin, adapting my playstyle and finding a killer that suited me. I used the swef strengths against them, i anticipated saves. I realized bait decoys, I knew when to chase and when not to.
In the end most swf groups can be beaten, it just takes longer and if you adapt and learn and get better you'll get 3-4k most games. You'll manage to usually get minimum of 2 kills and max out across the board on pretty much everything.
But if you're all going to keep your head in the sand and your fingers in your ears and blame it on swf etc you'll keep being frustrated.
"Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes."
Let's stop pretending that SWF isn't basically as different as night and day from multiple solos.
If it became common for survivors to team up with, and work with the killer via voice comms to help the killer take down survivors you'd be pretty mad, right? It would make the game leagues harder.
And yet it's perfectly fine for survivors to do that against the killer.