Pulsar
Pulsar
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873376#Comment_873376
Right. So that's still a snapshot of the overall balance of the game currently. That's going to be your average experience of a DbD game at red ranks. The average game you go into at red ranks, you are most likely not going to survive. Which brings me to my original argument
THE
GAME
IS
NOT
SURVIVOR
SIDED
Then ask yourself, why do people think it is?
I would bet it is because of the toxicity from both sides. In CoD, a loss is just a loss. In DBD, a loss is more than that. You get zero satisfaction AND often get BM'd by the opposing team after the match. That isn't a Survivor thing, I've had PLENTY of Killers do that too.
It needs to stop.
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@TragicSolitude said:
There are a lot of factors the numbers can't take into consideration.
The devs may not include matches where someone disconnected, but what about hook suicides? If someone suicides early in the game, the remaining survivors usually fall like dominoes. On top of normal suicides due to not liking the killer or the map, these numbers were taken while The Rift has been going on, and it's common for survivors to finish their challenge and suicide so they can get started on the next challenge.
Also, how many survivors play without the goal of escaping? My friends and I don't play with the goal of escaping. We go in fully intending to die. We can't be the only ones. Playing killer, I've also played against survivors who were absolutely winning and then they threw the game for unknown reasons; they basically put themselves on the hooks, I had little to do with it.
These numbers also aren't split up by platform. Console and PC are mixed together. Maybe that doesn't matter, but maybe it does.
I'm not saying the balance is fine. Survivors need certain buffs so solo survivors can be more coordinated, because coordination is how survivors survive. I think the buff to Kindred is a step in the right direction, though I think it should be base kit rather than relegated to a perk. But that's my opinion and doesn't really matter in this discussion.
The important thing is that the stats don't necessarily mean anything except that people apparently don't find Plague fun to play as. Poor Adiris needs some love.
Yeah, rip for the Plag.
Amazing design, not so fun to play.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873360#Comment_873360
No. And that's where interpretation of statistics would come in. Clown is fine, although I can't stand exhaustion bottles since exhaustion has already been nerfed into the ground and dead hard doesn't work most of the time because of dedicated servers.
With that said, you could still say "Clown is still favored against survivors at red ranks.". Which would be 100 percent true. You can't make the argument that survivor are favored against clown at this rank, generally speaking. Which seems to be the constant battlecry -that this game is survivor sided. Which facts dictate that's just not true.
Exhauastion perks are fine. Dead Hard works fine for me.
I heavily disagree, however, say you had control of the balancing, what would you change?
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@Mtom912 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873349#Comment_873349
Nah, rounding wise it’s a 3k
eg 37.6-50% would be 2k average, but would mean they also often get a 1k, but are more likely to get a 2k
in this circumstance, 62.6-75%, a kill rate in between that would mean a killer may often 3k, or 2k, but on average are more likely to 3k
Fair enough, at least you brought math. You have my respect.
I hold my postion, until the rank system is fixed, 3K average is fine. After it is, by all means, 2K average, until then, I'd rather not de-pip.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873349#Comment_873349
No. It would be closer to an average of 3k. 4ks are possible, which means that 4k's are also in that statistic. I don't know how you look at 74 percent and think that's closer to an average of 50 percent, rather than 75 percent.
Clown rounds to a 75% average at red ranks. Should we nerf him? No.
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873328#Comment_873328
Looping with pallets is one of the only few defenses in the game. Survivor perks are now mostly nerfed to ground. Survivors live and die based on map design. If you take out all pallets and loops, every killer would have a 100 percent kill rate, regardless of skill.
Spine Chill, Dead Hard, Balanced, Lithe, Borrowed, DS, Prove Thyself, Adrenaline, We'll Make It ect ect.
These are all excellent Survivor perks that serve unique purposes. Certainly not "nerfed into the ground."
As for looping, absolutely, if your skill is higher than your opponents, by all means, loop them for 5 gens. However, god loops should NOT exist. Pallets should be more numerous but not safe.
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@Mtom912 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873315#Comment_873315
74% is actually nearly a 3k average every game, not a 2k
like if X got a 4k 99% of games, you wouldn’t say they average a 3k
Is it a 2K average?
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@Ascended4Head said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873315#Comment_873315
74 percent is closer to a 3k than to a 2k. Which would mean that more matches see a 3k kill rate than a 2k. I don't think you know how to interpret statistics, so anything further would just be a waste of time. Regardless, 74 percent is greater than 26 percent. So statistically speaking, that would make the game killer sided.
Regard
First off, I am glad you revealed your bias. Secondly, 0-24% is a 0K. 25-49% is a 1K. 50-74% is a 2K, closer to 3K, true, but a 2K average nonetheless. 75-99% is a 3K. 100% is a 4K.
About the bias, by your own admission, Killers should always be at 50%. Even if they are better players, they should be locked in at 50%.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873320#Comment_873320
"killers don't win unless they pip"
would you consider it a win if you pipped but got 0k?
Yes, I would. That is the system the game has put in front of me.
That being said, if I instantly 4k a team, that is also a win, just not a very competitive one.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/230/KSPIKOCTC8RD.png
The game doesn't exist solely for red rank players which means THIS statistic is what matters most to the devs. According to this statistic NO killer averages 75% / 3 kills per game so I'm not sure what the fuzz is about. Literally all killers are within the aimed 2k range.
Even if we take a look at the red rank statistic only Spirit, Freddy and Hillbilly touch the 75% / 3k average mark. That's NOT "most killers":
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/910/6KD3I8P3L1V9.png
Literally ALL the other killers are between 60% - 74% (Hag only) which is still a 2k...
I would also like to point out, other than Billy, the two that are above the line are the two Killers people have trouble looping.
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@SleepyWillo said:
Let's also note that these stats don't include matches with DCs. Any game where a survivor DCs early is an almost instant win for the killer and lose for the survivors. If these stats actually included those I think we'd see a lot more survivors dying...
And please don't say "but my pips" as a reason that killers should be getting 4ks each match. Balance should not be based around pips. Pips should be based around balance.
Regardless, Killers don't win unless they pip. A 2K at Rank 1 is a de-pip.
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@Ascended4Head said:
- Perception is not always based on reality. We got hard numbers that show this game, is in fact, not killer sided. A kill ratio of almost 75 percent for most killers in no reality would make a game survivor sided, unless you think those numbers should be closer to 100 percent, which is another problem I'll detail later.
- Freddy is absolutely broken. For a forum that supposedly prays at the altar of balance, Freddy is blatantly imbalanced. He is a killer who can insta teleport to any generator on the map. Combine this with BBQ and Chili and you have a wall hack with teleportation. I could live with that though. Something that needs to be changed is fake pallets. The problem with fake pallets is that this is one the strongest defenses for a survivor. What else do they really have besides nerfed windows? So if you are a runner and try to be smart about it, something you do is plot your route to where pallets may be. Going to one of the only places with defenses and there not being a pallet, completely counteracts any "mindgames" or skill within the game. It also puts a further nail in the coffin for solo survivors.
- Many survivor perks need some love and attention. If you think the game is in a healthy state with a 75 percent kill rate and it actually needs to be more, please stop requesting increase to gen times or to more progress bar simulator. By far, the most boring thing in the entire world, is staring at a progress bars match after match. I really don't think increasing these would really make the game "fun" or "balanced", but will just make the game significantly less fun to play. With that said, many survivor perks need to be buffed. The devs need to make some perks that allow the survivor to play differently and allow more combinations that increase survival, or even just the fun factor. I feel the head on was a step in the right direction, but it still is an absolutely trash perk that takes way too long to get set.
- This is the major one. For many people who keep saying that killer is too weak, do not care about facts or balance - they only care about being able to reliably 4k every single game to be in the "power role". I said this 16 months ago and I'll say it again - many people who post on here will never be happy with the balance of the game until survivors have no defenses, no good perks, and all items are trash tier. That's not a meme, that's the reality that you can see here.
I honestly just hope the Devs try to move towards a philosophy of fun for both sides, rather than just trying to increase progress bar simulator and pad out 4k rates. Because the game is increasingly becoming less and less fun to play. Hits through pallets, wall hacks, constant insta-downs, increase in progress bar simulator, constant nerfing of perks, and not releasing perks that help to fundamentally change the way you play.
@Blueberry said it best.
Also, 74% is still a 2K. That means Freddy is still killing two people on average.
Nurse has a 4X%, meaning she kills one person on average.
Oh, a 2K at Red Ranks is a de-pip, meaning those stats are wrong.
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Plague does not need a nerf.
However, rather than just telling you off, allow me to ask a question. Why do you think she needs a nerf?
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I wait about 15-20 minutes as Survivor and maybe 15 seconds as Killer.
Xbox
Eastern USA
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Xbox here.
NA Rank 1 ranges from some pretty boosted or casual players to EXTREMELY good Survivors and Killer using KB&M.
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@prismalorg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869120#Comment_869120
I like Michael, but to me, Ghost Face is definitely more confusing and I can't seem to player him well at all. Can you offer some tips?
Use the cooldown add-ons. Try not to stalk, often times getting a free hit is better than an instant down.
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I play Legion, Myers, GhostFace and Spirit.
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@Mert_MK said:
How about playing the game for fun instead of forcing yourself to play the role you enjoy less just because of BP gain?
In your case it sounds like you need a break tbh.
I have some sympathy for him. It is difficult to have fun playing when you get stomped and meme'd on a few games in a row.
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This seems alright, it keeps the strength of DS while feeling more fair to Killers.
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All of the Killers had a 2K/2E average.
The only one that was close was Freddy with 74%.
Remember, 25% is 1K
75% is a 3K
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@ColgateAdvancedWhite said:
I knew the kill rates were a lot higher than 50%. My own Spirit gets about 4k in most of my games. It has become so frequent that I had to remind myself that 4k is not what the game is balanced around.
Although I sometimes feel salty that I don't get 4k. I guess that's why there are so many killer complaints on the forums despite killers overperforming across the board.
None of the Killers are overperforming, they are all within the 2K/2E design.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867520#Comment_867520
SWF is perfectly fine lmao.
Considering killers like to pretend 4-man depip squads sit waiting in rank one together to depip any killer that comes into red ranks it sure looks like the majority of them get wasted by literally every killer.
I've certainly played against a few very good teams in the last 24 hours.
Unbeatable? No. Extremely efficient and good? Yes.
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Just move on.
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@Seanzu said:
I don't see why you find it concerning.
from my brief lurk on the forums the only people complaining about the stats is... well... killers, yet again.
No survivor has made a post like "Well we seriously need to look at kill rates because they're too high".
Literally no body, just the same killers who complain day in and day out that they aren't getting enough kills and that SWF is the devil etc, now they're all making meme posts like "Hurr I guess we better nerf da killers because they are all overperforming hehehe"
Why make a post for something that isn't a problem?
SWF is still a problem, we certainly need to bring Solo's up to SWF levels. I certainly think the stats are a little inflated, as the last round of stats were.
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@altruistic said:
It’s pretty obvious at high rank play as Survivor, a small percentage of games net in 2+ escapes. A lot of the games are 4K’s. Anyone consistently playing at red ranks can tell you that.
I think that is because Survivor's stopped improving. I have noticed Killer's constantly evolving their playstyle, however, I have not seen the same thing with Survivors.
I understand that there is a limit to how much you can do, still, it wouldn't hurt to evolve.
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@TheDoctorMain said:
I love the Doctor. Win or lose I have a wonderful time playing him
I love his giggle!
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@MegaGamer_01 said:
Getting a clean hit after blinking with nurse
Very satisyfing.
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@Murcielago said:
I like the somewhat competitive nature and the devs trying to keep everything balanced but in game Ghostface he's the most fun I have playing killer
Absolutely! I love my t-bagging buddy!
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@DingDongs said:
ALSO!
Remember everyone said Legion is worst killer than any killers?
According to stats, Legion have more pick rate AND kill rate both all rank and red rank than Clown
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/514/BS2U036RCKBW.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/135/P4QSDZUC6X87.png
Unless devs really hate clown, he deserve some buff at least very small one
At least Clown is kinda fun to play as. When I play Legion I get headaches from the stun from FF.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866081#Comment_866081
Not true. The stats only show where there might be a problem. We do our research before making any changes to see what that problem might be, if any. There's a lot of people who would be happy to share why they feel the Spirit needed to be changed if you'd like.
Not trying to be argumentative, but there are also plenty of people who would be happy to share why Spirit did NOT need to be changed.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865872#Comment_865872
You can loop just as easily an EW3 Myers. And I don't care if survivors don't cleanse when I bring an Apple and Infectious Fright/Black Incense, most of the time survivors not cleansing make the Plague's job much easier if she knows what she's doing.
Oh? Bringing ad-ons into the mix? Myers with J. Myers Memorial and Dead Rabbit with M&A.
That is a 4 meter TR, plus you still get EWIII.
That is way better than Plague.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865807#Comment_865807
Each their own, I just don't like to play for salt. People text you when the perk doesn't even activate?
Yes.
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865819#Comment_865819
No, he doesn't. Plague also has better tracking, better stall, better add-ons and counters a lot of survivors perks and items. Myers is kinda outdated and his kit is lacking, especially after he got Undetectable in his EW1.
Yes, he does. Nobody cleanses against the Plag, you can still get looped for days if the Survivor knows what they are doing.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865807#Comment_865807
I use to use it on my OG Freddy build for this very reason. The amount of salt I got in endgame chat about being a bad killer who needs NOED is ridiculous when I would 4k with gens remaining.
Exactly!
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@aregularplayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865810#Comment_865810
What is hilarious about that? It's not like she is Wraith. I'm pretty confident I could win most of my Spirit games with only whispers and I'm a bad killer.
Eh, it isn't like I ever need it.
It's like equipping Mad Grit on rank reset, I only do it for kicks and giggles, it isn't like it will help me.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865813#Comment_865813
He should have Billys speed, but way better control. Add in his ability to 1 shot and he'd be crazy good. Its weird the devs havent made a killer like this yet...-Giggles in Oni-
Oh? You mean Oni-chan?
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@Marcus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864232#Comment_864232
Still, I don't see Plague any lower than the top of B tier. Definitely higher than Myers.
I don't think so, Myers has way better snowball.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
Only 110%? I think he needs the speed of nurse 😂
Speed of Windstorm Wraith!
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@aregularplayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864238#Comment_864238
you are probably the worst spirit out there if you need noed
The amount of times I've had to use NOED as Spirit is pretty slim. I really only do it to make people angry when they see my build.
Also, it means you lost to a three perk Spirit, which is hilarious.
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864238#Comment_864238
Ruin and noed on Spirit....what the heck.. bring a tank to a knife fight. Probably running prayer beads and wondering how you got so good. Spirit doesn't need either but at least pick one. Slow it down early or late game build.
Insurance. Plus, it's fun to get messaged about using NOED when there are 3 gens left.
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@concious_consumer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864238#Comment_864238
bad killer = spirit. I guess I already said that ;)
Hm?
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@SlimyTaco said:
MoM is getting another nerf with the protection hit nerf. That didnt work at all in the first place.
How so?
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@Elk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864947#Comment_864947
Um....hmmm, kind of sad. I hold T2 until it is like just a tap away. So when the last gen popped, i downed her. Music and all. After i hooked her she said that. I even said, i didnt even have NoEd, did you even look Then she got mad saying every killer has BBq and NoEd. I don't have BBQ and don't use NoEd on Michael. :( At rank 3 though. They should know better.
Middle of the match, pop EWIII on a Pink Hair Nea. Got accused of using NOED, which "is bascially hacking."
Am sad.
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@Azgard12 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864947#Comment_864947
I think the idea there is Michael is T3 and doesn't need the NoED?
Either way, people telling me what perks I shouldn't run because their OP is dumb. Even worse is when somebody dies and says something like "and you ran Distressing!??! Wow that perk sucks!"
...doesn't change the fact they lost to a bad perk, then.
No no, i got accused of using NOED by a Survivor at Rank 3...in the middle of the match....playing Michael.
Is this a common thing?
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They should be able to hit you. The stagger from the fall slows you down enough to where if they play it right, they can get a hit.
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Is it bad I had this happen? At Rank 3?
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@Joekillu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864915#Comment_864915
I'm sorry you must not be understanding me. What I'm say is when I'm survivor I yet to be hit on the house loop and I do not running BL. Not really sure why your arguing with me. Just stated my experience.
When you play Survivor, and do not have BL, you do not get hit on the Myers house loop, correct?
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@Warlock_2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864691#Comment_864691
This is a great point. I've not seen MoM activate since the nerf. It is a complete crap perk now. BL was really situational, though could be strong in some loops. Now it is a complete waste of a slot unless you play offerings for the right maps.
A better fix to the few areas where BL was overpowered would be to give it a 45 second timer where each successive stagger was less of a reduction. So you use BL, and then 30 seconds later you use it again (w/o speed boost), but the stagger reduction is halved and timer resets. Use it a third time and it is halved again and suspends stagger reduction until exhaustion expires.
Otherwise, it is less effective than all other exhaustion perks due to the limited places you can use it.
MoM is a badly designed perk. It will ALWAYS hover between OP and useless because the effect is gives is extremely strong. The update to Protection Hits will make it too strong again, imo.
BL will still be just as good as before, just no more god loops.
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"You aren't supposed to run that build." "Trash Killer, #########"
-the SWF I just played after I won using Spirit with PB and Mother-Daughter Ring.
NOTE: Was watching my brother play, he was rank 19. This was before the matchmaking changes were live, recognized the group as a Rank 1 SWF, did NOT want my little brother getting bullied, so I played.
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@Joekillu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/864904#Comment_864904
If that's how you see it but in my experience it is without BL.
It is not, you can usually catch them on their first loop if they don't have BL.