PigMainClaudette
PigMainClaudette
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OP, it's been all of about 2 weeks. Wait a little longer before you start throwing out accusations about power level. It's people like you who'll throw the balance out the window.
@LostAndConfuzzled said:
Didn't Oni get nuked into oblivion the other day?
Nope. They fixed it so that PC players can't flick his bash attack. Which they stated was never intended.
@Peasant said:
Like real talk here, isn't one of the new survivor perks here a hard counter? Lucky Break stops all bleeding so wouldn't that deny bloodorbs?
And yes, but it only works for 120/150/180 seconds. For the first hit. Nobody's going to main a perk to counter ONE killer out of 20. Personally, I'm more in favour of the not-immersive, dark clothed Claudette with Spine Chill. They can't hit what they can't see.
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Pig or Ghostface.
Just that feeling of beig the silent, unseen predator is so fun. Especially playing Dash Pig.
Haven't played Wraith, so I can't compare him to GF or Pig.
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Ummmm.
Freddy WANTS Survivors to be in the Dream World. That's where his power works. And it's called "Forever Freddy" just like the old 2 blades combo on Legion was called the "Infinite Mending" Legion. You can get it done, but it takes what feels like forever.
And unlike a good Pig player, it'd actually be wise for a Freddy to watch the alarms.
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Christmas............. sweater?
What? Why would I want a sweater in 40+*C heat all day? It's the middle of bloody Summer. Give me a Christmas singlet and tinny. Then we'll talk.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/912838#Comment_912838
Why would HG be left alone but not the other active Hexes? I get hating NOED but making it basekit is the best way to nerf it without making baby killers cry. (You could also replace the NOED speed boost with missed attack cooldown reduction but devs felt like they needed to make it OP)
If people find 3-5 active Hex totems, then they're going to do them all and hope they don't hit HG. I was more saying it as if they're the ONLY Hex perk.
Then again, I only run Ruin to help me get that first hook, considering I play slower killers, so if I had a better substitute, then I'd go towards that instead. And no I'm not going to use Corrupt Intervention. I prefer the more universal use of Ruin.
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No.
Too many survivors (myself, included) just despise the existence of NoED. I actively avoid it in my killer bloodwebs, because I will EARN my kills. I've had too many games where I've almost escaped, only to be cheated out of them by someone using NoED.
If this also happens, then every other Hex perk in the game becomes useless, because Small Game will now become a staple perk, and everyone is going to hunt totems. No more Ruin, No more Devour Hope, No more Thrill of the Hunt. They will all be cleansed too quickly to become relavent. "But what about Haunted Ground?" I hear you say, well simple. That'll be left alone. It's already an active Hex perk.
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Not only is it too soon to tell, but you have to work for his instant-down, which I am hugely in favour for. The only time I've been destroyed by an Oni was when I versed a Rank 2 Oni with a Rank 4, and 2 Rank 20's with a single Lv. 1 Balanced Landing between them.
So, yes, any killer would seem like they need a nerf against full potatoes, but to any competent survivors, not really.
I just see him as a more balanced Hillbilly. With a WAY better asthetic.
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@arslaN said:
Unfortunately, that is working as intended. Those rank 20s were probably playing with the rank 7 survivor and the game can match you with them after the recent matchmaking changes.
For example, if you are in a swf group with rank 20 teammates as a rank 1 survivor, the game will search for a rank 1 killer.
I was the rank 7. My Xbox username is different to my DbD Forum name.
And I only every got paired with Red ranked killers when I played with my high purple and red ranked friends. Until now.
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Most of us are more concerned about stale Killer, Add-on and Perk metas to care about who gets released next. That and the current Ranking system.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/909301#Comment_909301
I forgot about that.
But if memory serves, the SaW DLC came out before that new movie was released... the new movie retconned the idea of Amanda being the first apprentice to wear The Pig outfit.
Tbh, it's hard to say who really wore The Pig outfit first... since they keep retconning it.
It's more a symbol than an identity for the SAW series. Everyone's worn it at least once.
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/907981#Comment_907981
Many people have worn The Pig outfit to capture new victims for Jigsaw and his future apprentices.
To not spoil the entire franchise... basically The Pig outfit isn't bound to only one apprentice and or random people. But Amanda was technically the first to wear the outfit... till they retconned it along the way.
The person you're probably thinking of is Hoffman who was also eagerly obsessed with pleasing Jigsaw... but not as much as Amanda was.
There was a new guy in the late movie Jigsaw. He was in one of John's first games.
I remember everything to do with his back story there, but not his name.
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@GodDamn_Angela said:
"he’s definitely not a disaster like the Symmetra rework in overwatch"
I agree with this 1000%. I loved Symmetra 2.0 but Symmetra 3.0 is just... Blizzard why you hate her so much?
Anyway, on topic, I like playing Spirit but I'm also really bad at phasing. It does not go well.
That obnoxious beam was the bane of my existance.
And the main point of this is not exactly correct. I've played Spirit for quite a bit, and have a decent build. Nothing too bad. I mean, Monitor and Abuse is pretty decent. I think.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/907981#Comment_907981
I have only seen the first Saw movie personally, but I know most of what happens in the later ones and how Amanda's story develops, although I didn't know about the other guy being the first victim. I did know about the details of her cellmate, but I didn't mention it because I was trying to be as vague as possible spoiler- and gore-wise.
I would be curious to hear your Entity theory, but the lore section is probably a better place to talk about it, since ATC isn't meant to be a place for length discussions 😊
@PigMainClaudette said:
So, looking over the character bios of Dead by Daylight I believe that I have an answer to what the Entity is: a malevolent spirit of Purgatory. Not just that, but all of the characters in Dead by Daylight are actually, well, dead.
Since we already have confirmed "in universe" for the licensed characters of Tapp, Bill, Laurie, Freddy, Amanda (Pig) and Michael Myers, not to mention the LITERAL DISMEMBERMENT of the Spirit, I think that there is a case for this theory. Some characters, though are easier to theorise than others. If you have a theory of your own to support this, then tell me!
Here's a shortened list of how I believe some characters died before being delivered to the Entity:
- Dwight: Alcohol poisoning
- David: Picked the wrong fight
- Claudette: Venom from animal in forrest - she was a botanist. Animals are not her forte
- Nea: Gang violence
- Jeff: Complications mixing alcohol and elicit substances
- Feng Min: Sleep deprivation/malnurition - people do literally game themselves to death
- Jane: Fell asleep behind the wheel, crashed
- Doctor: Experimenting on himself
- Clown: Total organ failure
- Hag: Blood loss/shock
- Nurse: Vehicle accident, thrown out of ambulance/crawled away
Bit of a morbid theory, but one that would certainly explain a lot of the happenings within Dead by Daylight.
Old discussion. Not many views or comments.
And the latest (at time of post) movie was in 2017, so for someone who isn't a SAW fanatic, it would have been easy enough to miss.
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@Fibijean said:
Warning: SAW Spoilers
The Pig is Amanda Young from the Saw franchise.
As I understand it, she's essentially the Jigsaw Killer's apprentice. The Jigsaw Killer traps people into gruesome death trap puzzle "games" that test their will to live, forcing them to do something terrible to themselves or to someone else in order to save their own life. Amanda was the first person to survive one of these "games", and was so impressed by Jigsaw's philosophy that she joined with him.
She put on the pig costume to kidnap new victims for the game that took place during the first Saw film.
The Reverse Bear Traps that The Pig uses ingame are a feature from the trial Amanda survived, in which she had one placed on her own head, and was forced to locate the key by cutting open a man's stomach.
Not the first. Well, she technically was during the release of the SAW Chapter, but since the release of Jigsaw, we now know that it was a different guy, who's name escapes me. Also, probably a bit too much detail here, but she was told the guy was dead, when he was just paralysed.
@Peasant the main thing with Amanda Young being the one of the Entity's killers is that she actually failed John Kramer and his teachings, and as a result was shot to death in SAW III. She designed and implemented completely rigged games, that the "test subjects" could not complete. She is actually more of the sadistic killer type that the Entity desires. While an argument could be made for Hoffman from the later movies, I have my own theory about the Entity that Fibijean could totally debunk, but it has to do with her canonically dying.
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I run it base, but i'm no immersed Blendette.
My kit is Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Self-Care and Bond.
Great stealth build with the default Claudette clothes (well, I use the jacket over the button shirt) and just annoying the killer. You CAN hide, but not Urban Evasion like a rank 20 in a corner. And Sprint Burst should be enough to get a decent advantage in chases.
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Back when I had mates who were really into playing together in large parties, especially with Overwatch, we were all looking into possibly either DbD or Friday the 13th. Naturally, with there being 6-8 of us at any one given time, we chose Friday. We chose poorly.
Later on as we all started playing different games, some of us looked into DbD. Half of us only played for a little bit, while I stayed with it and another 2 of us play it occasionally.
I've been playing since Darkness Among Us, and it has it's moments still. Might play some other games for a while, leaving DbD for a bit, coming back and binge playing matches in other times. At least Archives now gives me something to work on, now that I have an established playstyle.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/902346#Comment_902346
I'm on XBOX myself. Granted I have an easier time looping especially Bubba than others as I've mained him for 2 years now and can literally tell what addons he runs by the duration of the sound-bug of his chainsaw (which came into the game with Plague's release) but anyone can loop a chainsaw happy Bubba easily with a few decent windows or pallets unless he runs speed addons and knows how to maneuver around walls and objects tightly which most Bubbas fail at anyways (including the guy I faced yesterday. He kept getting stunned everytime I forced him to chainsaw-route around objects).
As for chainsaw collision in general perhaps you keep playing against people with unstable connections? Bubba's chainsaw collision is pretty much exactly where I see the chainsaw model on my screen when I play him. You wouldn't believe how often my last (functional) chainsaw swing was basically ending behind the neck of a survivor and it wouldn't connect because of like an inch or two.
Do you have a clip to specify a moment where his chainsaw seems broken?
Not really because it's just pretty often. And mainly before the last patch where they "fixed" it. The swings just look like they should have bumped into something, especially the barricades on maps like Bedham when it seemingly passes through or over them.
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Same as Fibijean, except without the legitimacy. To me, it's a set of tactics that do not require skill and have helped force the current perk meta for survivors that heaps of killers seem to be complaining about.
Borrowed Time and Decisive Strike both became almost mandatory perks to deal with these issues.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/901491#Comment_901491
Not trying to be negative towards you but I literally never get hit by a chainsaw unless my team wastes every pallet on the map. Whenever I face a Billy or Bubba and I notice they're "chainsaw happy" I usually either escape without getting injured one single time or I get facecamped after looping them for minutes till they go for their bloodlust-m1-swings.
In fact I (almost) made a Bubba rage quit about an hour ago because I noticed he was chainsaw happy so I looped every pallet a million times which was easy as I know his chainsaw's biggest weakness (range+speed). I also noticed he ran charge addons which makes it even easier to loop Bubba into oblivion. Looped between the same windows after dropping a few pallets over and over again till he literally stopped moving for a few seconds. I started laughing while looping the same windows all the time.
He definitely was about to rage quit but (probably) wanted to facecamp me so bad so he "pulled through the match" - with no success.
After minutes of struggling he decided to m1 me just to lose me eventually due to Iron Will. Then the last gen popped. It was that bone shaped azarov map and they were on the other side of the map so they had enough time to open the gates. Easiest 4 man escape I could have thought of.
Matches like these make me wonder how I manage to play whole matches using nothing but the chainsaw. It seems laughably easy to loop a chainsaw happy killers as long as there's some good windows and pallets.
Same goes for Billy. If they're chainsaw happy you can abuse pallets and vaults like hideously easily unless it's a curving Hillbilly who knows what he's doing in which case he deserves to hook me anyday of the week. It's no shame to go down to a curving Billy.
Sorry for sounding arrogant by the way but I really think it's braindead easy to abuse chainsaw happy killers.
Are you playing on PC or console? Because I've tried all these apparant tricks to negate chainsaws and none of them work on Xbox. That and I still think that Bubba's environmental collision is genuinely broken.
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@Yamaoka said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/900136#Comment_900136
You make it sound like "bad" Hillbilly/Leatherface players used their chainsaw and "good ones" played without their power. 😂
It's more that I'm so over them waiting until only in M1 or lunge distance to activate their chainsaw. A lot of Leatherfaces I fight abuse the broken nature of environmental hit detection, and Hillbillies will hold it while looping, waiting to be literally touching me before using it, rather than an easy M1 that literally any other killer would be happy to get.
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I've never escaped from new Freddy from memory. Hillbilly and Leatherface are also super hard for me to fight, but that's mainly because it seems like a majority of them rely on their chainsaw. Hag is another one because I get camped out by her traps.
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@Dr_Loomis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/900063#Comment_900063
But Hoffman murdered several people outside of the games/tests. His close combat skills were highly effective.
He also had inescapable games and was far more calculating than Amanda.
Well, most of those kills were more or less out of necessity when he was cornered in a police station. And the only inescapable test I remember of Hoffman, was the first one we know of him which was before he became a Jigsaw apprentice.
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I would absolutely love to see the Xenomorph from the original Alien movie. No clue what its perks or power would be, but it would be quite a sight to see.
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Why don't we just delete The Game, Hawkins and Lery's while we're at it?
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@Nyaren_Chan said:
Pretty fine, as far as i know you can counter him by healing asap and using Spine Chills. He needs your blood, but if he can't find you, then he can't build-up his power on you.
*Laughs in Blendette*
The only time an Oni has hit me was when one wanted to have a farming game. And one game on Hawkins against a guy who was a higher rank than me. First survivor led them to me, but got downed and instantly DC'd. Bloody rank 4 and the highest (only red) on the Survivor side.
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Well, according to my theory about what the Entity is, it makes total sense for it to be Amanda.
SAW lore wise, it also makes a bit more sense. Hoffman's games were still winnable. Was he extremely lethal? Yes. But Amanda was more sadistic and irredeemable. When Kramer was on the verge of death, and getting the equivalent of back-alley brain surgery, with a highly qualified doctor, almost SCREAMING at her to get him to an actual hospital, she basically said "DO IT AND YOU DIE." She had zero remorse, and zero plans to stop just killing people in the name of Jigsaw.
As for licensing, I'm assuming that the SAW movies had not been all released at the time of the SAW chapter, or the licensing being given, so having the already removed Amanda as the killer would have been the easier choice.
Good to see that nobody asked for Kramer, though. Would have hated to go off my nut at someone for suggesting that.
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They deliberately changed the matchmaking for SWF to specifically so that a red rank can't go up against green ranks with a brown ranked partner. It probably has more to do with connection strength than actual matchmaking. Not to mention, there's probably a hidden component to the matchmaking. I've played as a rank 12 killer with rank 14-17 survivors who acted like they were purple ranks. If survivors do WAY better than their rank suggests, there's probably a hidden matchmaking boost to get them more into the games they should.
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You have other perks to complain about like Spine Chill being useful against LITERALLY EVERY KILLER to an ungodly degree, and yes I know how because I use it, Decisive Strike basically open to abuse and allowing about 60 seconds of safety, Object of Obsession giving a full SWF team full knowledge of your location, or even something like Prove Thyself encouraging the infamous "gen-rush" strat. But no, Self-Care is the problem.
Nobody runs Empathy, and very few run Bond, so outside of mic'd up SWF, there's next to no knowing where anyone is for heals. "Just run med-kits, then" I hear you say. You see a full team of med-kits join and I can guarantee that any killer worth their salt (and who has this perk....) will immediately equip Franklin's Demise.
Now, admittedly, I find myself using Self-Care less and less these days, but I still have it equipped. Never know when you're about to find a full batch of potatoes.
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Can this be abused? Yes.
Can other things in this game be abused and supported by the devs? Yes. Too much so!
Are people going to dodge for other reasons? Of course.
Is lobby dodging affecting the community that badly? Pfft. Nope.
While I did dodge lobbies more with the old "bug" it was mainly because I was in high purple, teaming with another purple and/or a red, then getting level 1-5 character yellow ranked survivors or lower. Sometimes I'd solo-queue into a low green team, maybe a mix of green and yellow, then find out later that the killer was 5 ranks higher than some survivors.
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@ahandfulofrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877937#Comment_877937
Maybe don't be an immersed potato and that wouldn't happen. :D
That's cute. You assume my playstyle.
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They are just not fun. They look cool, but they're not fun.
If they were somehow earned (like, I dunno, Hex: Devour Hope.....?) then sure.
@[Deleted User] said:
"incoming forum users telling you that you are a 0 skill / you can't win without mori / baby killer XD XD XD / not fun for the survivor"
And you may be trolling, but it's still true. Some killers couldn't 4k without them, let alone something like a 2k. Entity forbid that we don't kill off all 4 survivors! And I want Ebony Moris to cancel pipping entirely since it breaks how the game is played in its entirety.
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@snozer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881229#Comment_881229
If he is able to chainsaw you around a loop, that is on you for being greedy.
If he catches you out of position, YOU made the mistake and for once YOU are punished for it.
He has zero ability to land a chainsaw from a distance unless you are a potato.
Tired of survivors wanting to sleep during the game and have zero threats...
But the loop I'm at is one rock in the middle of nowhere. And you're still literally faster than me, so launching it when you're touching me does not have counterplay. The main reason I'm even here too is because of the generators. It's not being caught out of position, it's borderline abuse of the power.
I want killers to be strong, but I want to know that they were actually better than me, not just happen to have a cheesy instant-down. I feel like I could have done something if I step into a Trapper bear trap. I feel like I could have done something against a Huntress. I DON'T feel like I could have done something about a Hillbilly who charged his chainsaw in M1 range, then launched as soon as he was touching my body.
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@immortalls96 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/881146#Comment_881146
Borrowed time is in the unique position among perks to where it's almost 100 percent uncountable in scenarios where you would need to counter it..and if rumors are true that the devs will change the dw parameters to distance base..well..then it truley will have 0 counters
I'm with SenzuDuck on this one and I mainly mentioned it to counter blantant campers.
And if we wanna talk about abusing perks, then why not bring up D-Strike.
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@itsmetimohthy said:
He is probably the most balanced killer in the game... the hell?
And that would be Huntress.
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I've asked before because 90% of the time I get chainsawed is in an area where there is no counterplay. Especially with Insta-saw or Drift King builds.
It might be because I faced way more who simply relied on the saw, rather than any actual skill. It's like I said in my own thread about this subject. Hillbilly and Leatherface, as in 2/19 killers, have an easy instant down mechanic that requires basically no skill to use. Leatherface has broken hitboxes on terrain, especially compared to how he can hit a survivor, but that's a different topic.
Hillbilly does have nice mobility and map pressure, and there are some instances where I can accept a saw. But as a whole, too many Hillbillies I face rely too heavily on the saw and start it in areas that any other killer would be thankful for a basic hit.
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Suprisingly agreed. I've actually de-pipped after a salty killer DC'd after I ran them for 1 generator and 360'd them ONCE.
There have been quite a few instances where I've had a killer make us de-pip with a DC because the game had been going for all of 40 seconds.
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Survivors: "can killers just stop camping and tunnelling us so we can actually play the game"
Killers: "No. You're doing generators too quickly" procede to slug for 4k, camp and tunnel.
Survivors: run Borrowed Time, Spine Chill Adrenaline, Balanced Landing and keys to counter them
Killers:
"Survivors OP plz nerf"
There are people on both sides that are trying to make the game difficult for the other and it's having a rollover effect to the rest of the community.
People come here to voice their concerns and get shot down. Killers spout "Buh muh 4kher" and Survivors say that killers are using unfair tactics and both get called entitled and whiny in the process.
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Vigo is essentially an amazing stealth survivor. His shroud and journals would also make him an extremely valuable asset to the Survivors side.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/880930#Comment_880930
So you read a few posts and were somehow able to determine a metric based off that?
Alrighty then lol.
More than a few.
Were you even around then?
Are you even reading more than the first sentence?
And why are you turning on me after I openly AGREED with you?
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/880918#Comment_880918
So you actually took the time to read all the nerf posts and were able to establish whether the complaints had any merit?
Okay.
You don't need to read them all. And I did read and consider lots of them.
And it's like I said. Just about all anyone was talking about was the new killer nerf of the week. I was over it.
Killers ARE losing power in this game and the new kill stats don't prove anything.s
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@Might_Oakk said:
Yes if only they hadn't nerfed these things
- instablind 180 degree flashlights
- pallet vacuum
- 4 man insta decisive strike
- double pallet spawns
- instant full gen BnPs
- insta heals
- window loops on structures
- entity blocking windows after 3 vaults
- borrowed time effecting unhooker also
- mettle of man
etc. etc. etc.
Nerfs and buffs go both ways to improve the game, just adapt and improve
As per my reply to Mister_Holdout above, and did you read just the title? Or the whole opening statement?
This is also an older discussion of mine at the height of the Spirit Nerf discussion horde.
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@Mister_Holdout said:
For me, it depends on if the nerf is justified or not. People have a right to call for nerfs if there is a legitimate basis for their decision.
Justified nerfs are fine, but at the time I originally posted this, 75% of the discussions were just nerf-callings. And THAT was what I was trying to fight against.
I'm not saying never nerf a character or perk ever again, I'm just saying maybe stop witch-hunting whatever's the strongest in the game this week.
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As a Blendette, sho actually does contribute to the team, I find this somewhat offensive, especially since I run Spine Chill and Sprint Burst.
That being said, I will now EXCLUSIVELY play Blendette to give all other survivors BP.
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@LULKEK said:
nerfs not need to stop there will be ever nerfs for surviver and for killers accept it or uninstall game thx :-)
You know that this os a serious discussion, right? I think I saw a troll discussion recently called Dab Emote plz. You'd be better off there.
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@SyntheticAesthetic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/839559#Comment_839559
I read somewhere that 4SWF have a 50% survivral rate, entitled my ass killers are Z tier mostly. You're just upset this game isn't giving you wins in ways you want and consistently.
Ummmmmm, they should theoretically have more. So many killers are camping, tunnelling and relying on an Ebony Memento Mori, skewering the stats in their favour.
And yes, Survivors ARE upset that a game that a majority of us paid money for, is sometimes unplayable because of one person deciding that raw kills are more important than embodying the spirit of a malicious Slasher villain hunting down a group of unfortunate teens/adults.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877937#Comment_877937
That's why you run it with Unbreakable (another Bill perk).
Sorry, but no. I've already made a thread about this, but I'm not the one slugged, and they immediately hook me and camp, so I can't 4% my way out of the situation.
And I like my build of Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Self Care and Bond on Claudette.
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It doesn't even get a chance to work 99% of the time because so many killers now SLUG FOR THE 4K. Left Behind doesn't have a chance to activate because they've kept the other person alive because they NEVER FIND ME AND CAMP ME ON MY FIRST HOOK, JUST HOOK THEM AND FACE ME NORMALLY COWARD! IT'S NOT THAT HARD!
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@ASpazNamedSteve said:
Blendettes should be banned for life.
You even try that, then we're all switching to black trenchcoat Adam.
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Well, the Oni was an utterly brutal killer across the battlefields of Japan, and with his seemingly powerful rage, to a being that LITERALLY FEEDS OFF EMOTIONS, that seems like a very good meal. Like a well-cooked steak. Tempered and perfectly made. And with his battlefield prowess, and martial pride, that'd be like the chips and salad on the side.
Rin, however, has a more concentrated and violent rage. The Entity was going to take her father instead, but Rin's rage made her the better choice. Back to the steak analogy again too, same as the Oni, but a bigger piece of steak, with more of the natural juices. But just the steak. Maybe with a nice sauce called anxiety and depression.
And no I was not hungry when I wrote this. The food comparison made too much sense here.
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I have my own theory about this, and how ALL the survivors and killers are within the Entity's realm.
Tl;dr? Everyone's dead and their spirits are being held by a malevolent spirit of Purgatory, aka the Entity.
How did David wind up in here then? Simple. He chose the wrong fight one day. Got done in by someone who could hit harder, or like the "coward punching" cases in Australia, took a hit in just the right spot for it to knock out, resulting in a fall and skull fracture, leading to death, or outright killed him.