Omans
Omans
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- Omans
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"I want to handicap myself by not using addons, but still be able to compete against the best survivors (which she can still do...)."
I would never take billy into a game against the best survivors without addons. I would never take Trapper into a game against the best survivors without addons (when will trapper get his traps at the start?). I would never take my favorite killer Huntress into a game against the best survivors without addons. I don't understand why nurse players think hey should be any different?
This game is balanced around killers at the highest level using addons against survivors at the highest level. Nurse players have been spoiled for too long. Time for them to eat some humble pie.
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What a great day. Skilless nurses who think they should 4k every game against players of all skill levels get nerfed, and toxic SWF teams who rely on overpowered insta-heals to do well get nerfed on the same day? Wonderful.
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I wonder if you people (all the people crying and moaning about nurse getting this much deserved nerf) are going to be embarrassed by these kinds of posts when you realize nurse is still top of the food chain. Probably not, because the fact you are complaining in the first place shows you probably shouldn't be at whatever rank you are at.
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Both amazing changes. Looks like the devs are really trying to put balance at the forefront. Next should be updating the awful maps.
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@CallMeBacon said:
I'm not gonna bother checking if this has already been said, but the changes aren't out and creating post after post on the forums isn't going to give the Devs the valuable feedback they seek with the PTB.
If you want to prove Nurse will be terrible with these changes, please play the PTB and prove your point with feedback after experience. A rushed opinion does not provide the Team with a choice, just less feedback and forum clutter.
Wow. Aren't comments like these what gets threads closed? Rambling incoherent nonsense that doesn't have much of a point and extremely hostile.
Look, mate, you misinterpret and misunderstand everything I say, and even trying to parse through whatever it is you wrote would take way longer than it would be worth, nevermind actually replying to it.
Your view of nurse is wrong, has been proven wrong, and has little relevence because the change is already in motion. There really are only two options: either you aren't as skilled as you think you are (most likely), or you are good, but just have no ability to discern what balanced means or looks like. Either way, I'm done with you. This nurse change is a step in the right direction, and people whining about this need to get over themselves and/or get better. What's that saying? GIT GUD!
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@ShadowRain said:
This is proof they don’t listen to the community. They gave us the complete opposite of what we wanted.
The community? Who might that be? The only people I've seen who aren't happy about this are nurse players. Who is that killer in your display picture?
Most of the community (non-biased people) is happy something that should have happened long, long ago has finally happened.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743610#Comment_743610
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743610#Comment_743610
What rambling? Where?
What helplessness? Where do I Claim to feel that? Cause I got bullied when playin a meme build like burger king Myers? Since you are so good, come i play you with my SWF. You play burger king Myers and i Show you how to be bullied ok? But you are probably a tryhard so you never play any meme builds at all.
You did say Nurse has no counterplay thus i have to assume that you are unable to play against it. You never played me and yet talk About how you bully me, sure Keep dreaming.
Sorry I diagree but it is nice to see your Argumentation, everybody that does not agree with what streamdaddy said is boosted and bad and doesnt understand anything. Sorry you are a joke. A bad one too. Did it not once occur to you, in your arrogant mindset, that the Player might not be a Nurse main? Rarely Plays Nurse and just did dailies on her? Have you seen Edgar play Nurse? It was horrible,, i think he practiced a bit since i saw him a year ago. Even Zubat knows there are bad nurses at rank 1 doing dailies or People just goofin around.
Nurses who are skilled feel probably bored by bad survivors, that is why i said and agree that nobody Needs Nurse to win at r1, well Maybe some People do. I feel the same About Nurse, but i do think that survivors Need to step up their game too. Lots of boosted survivors that play like potatoes. Making Nurse less viable will not improve skill of survivors nor will it make for good Variety. All they had to do was Change the addons.
Why didn't you answer a single Question? I think i struck a nerve with your stream Daddy, you have a head of your own. Use it.
PS: Never try to impress anyone with amount of Hours you have in the game. Every half decent Player knows that this doesn't matter. We all know that there are People with several thousands of Hours in the game that Play like garbage.
No point arguing with someone like you. Imagine thinking you are skilled, while having no understanding of game mechanics...I'll keep this short.
1) Don't play meme builds and expect to win against try-hard survivors. Isn't that common sense...?
2) It's cute that you challenge me AFTER I mention that I play on the Asian servers.
3) I said a SKILLED nurse removes basically all counterplay. You wouldn't know about that, though. Please don't try listing all the counterplay that works on bad nurses. Actual good players have tried and tested everything. Are you going to tell me to break line of sight and turn back? Yeah, okay, how do you think I ran that nurse forever for? Try doing that against good nurses who don't fall for your novice tricks.
4) 'Stream daddy.' That's cute. Did you know it is possible for a streamer and a viewer to share the same opinion without one being called a sheep? Or should I call you a hypocrit for basically parroting tru3talent? Is he your stream daddy?
5) Of course hours don't matter if you don't have the skills to back it up. Keep misinterpreting everything. It's amusing.
6) I can't help but imagine that 3v1 game you keep mentioning. I bet you three were super impressed with yourselves after playing as sweaty as possible, meanwhile on that guy's stream he probably was like "okay, I'll try next game. No point trying in a game with a disconnect". Did you know many killers stop try-harding after a disconnect?
7) He proved he can win basically 100 percent of his games against skilled survivors and SWF teams try-harding to beat him. If you can't comprehend how that stems from the basekit allowing her addons to have such extreme power, you can't be reasoned with.
8) Literally all of your questions were rhetorical. You want me to answer this? "Koreans also eat fish that is yet Living so what?" Why...? You didn't ask a coherent question. Don't expect answers if you ask like that..
I'd prefer if you don't respond. Nothing you say will convince me. All the best players I know agree with me about this change. The devs obviously agree. Players with skill and knowledge in this game agree. Why would I ever listen to you? Keep bullying noob killers with your cute 3-man. I assume you blame the random 4th player every time you go up against a competent killer and lose?
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Hard to tell until it actually gets tested, but it all sounds pretty good. If it is too much or too little it can always be tweaked. I'm just shocked there are so many nurse mains living in denial about their favorite killer's overpoweredness. When I use something that is overpowered (ebony mori, insta-heal) I think "wow..this feels cheap". Not these people, apparently.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743497#Comment_743497
Aw no you don't understand not even by a longshot.
No I am not one of those people. It is just that Killers when they do not play any of the top 3 they Need to play perfect against survivors that play optimal. I am sorry if you are unable to find 4 People to play optimal but that is just the case and is what makes this game so mindnumbing easy as Survivor. The handholding to bad survivors like you, who cry "no counterplay!" soon spirit will have no counterplay, billy afterwards and there will be another because all that bad survivors like you can do is run bad loops is being lazy and not improving and Escape with a key at best.
No I am no nurse main so spare me your assumptions, i have more than enough Killers to play at r1 due to the fact that most survivors are boosted and bad nowadays. I talk About when survivors do play optimal and Nothing else and know what they do.
Koreans also eat fish that is yet Living so what? In order to play against something you have to understand how it is, how it functions and where the weakspots are. The people that can play the best against nurse are people that also play her and are actually good on her. Base Nurse has enough but since you do not play her, you dont know jack About it. So the streamer is doing the thinking for you? Is it that guy that did the Experiment to proof how op Nurse is when all he did manage to proof was how broken the add ons were? By that time everybody knew that already lol.
Let him do the same experiment, this week, just to see for comparison ok just without any add ons.
Uhm no I dont believe that a killer got bullied because he lost a game. Otz when he is getting bullied also swears on the channel (lol we managed to beat him 3 v 1 due to a disconnect no idea how you see that not as being bullied when he has more than half the game to kill at least one) zubat wrote he got #########.
Ofc it happens to people that they get bullied, not you ofc. Perfect Killer, perfect Survivor yet unable to play against base nurse. Cry more for nerfs with everything that gives you trouble and give yourself to the Illusion that you are good.
Yikes. A whole lot of incoherent rambling. These changes have got you pretty rattled, eh?
Say what you want, I can say with 100 percent certainty you're not as good as you think, and you are basing your idea of balance off of that delusion. I have over 2000 hours in the game, never not at rank 1, and I have never felt this helpless feeling while playing as killer that you claim to feel.
When did I say I can't play against basekit nurse? When did I say I don't play nurse. The fact is, I bully players like you all the time, because they are boosted beyond belief by this broken ranked system, led to believe they are actually good. I often see nurses in red ranks who absolutely do not belong there. Just yesterday I led one of these nurses along for 5 gens. A rank 1 nurse. Why is that player in my game? When I saw all this crying today I thought of that player - someone told they are good because they got nurse to rank 1, when they actually should be purple or green. If the player is just decent or just good, they don't have a chance if they chase me. That includes nurses. When the player is skilled, and plays nurse, that is when counterplay starts to go out the window.
I have played plenty of nurse. I don't anymore. It was too boring getting win after win after win. Nurses who are skilled feel the same way. Players who are still learning tend to think she is fine. So...keep practicing, I guess.
And try to learn what bullying means..
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Wait and see. This change is definitely a step in the right direction, but if it ends up being a bit too much, then maybe increasing movement speed to compensate a bit could work. As long as they don't give in to all the whining from bad nurse players and revert this change.
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@Attackfrog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743429#Comment_743429
people ######### about the tiniest slight...and not a SINGLE survivor complaint that the nerfs weren't strong enough.
MAJOR red flag!
Because *surprise surprise* until these changes are actually tested it is impossible to know exactly how much this will affect Nurse. I'd say people are cautiously optimistic, and that maybe finally nurse players will have to start playing the same game as the rest of us the killers and survivors, and not an overpowered fantasy simulator.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743175#Comment_743175
I am r1 both sides, thanks.
Yes i do see them getting bullied, People like otz get bullied (calm down, not often but it happens). Also happens to zubat rarely but it does. Have done it even myself with a random dc midgame so that was 3 vs him and we still beat him (otz not zubat he is canada i think and not EU).
It is like you are not able to even understand the Argument, nobody said they dont have a Chance when they do not use Nurse but it must be great to make-up some Argument and debate that one i guess. Nurse is a viable Killer and one less viable Killer means less Variety so thanks for even more boring red ranks.
Please spare me your opinion that you try to state as if it were a fact because it isn't. You come here and say Nurse has no counterplay, which is wrong, partialy, Nurse actually requires all survivors to work as a Team and requires lots of individual skill. Constant Breaking from LoS, keeping your eye on Nurse so you have to Focus on her while watching your step and in Addition to that you have to mindgame her(baiting blinks) oh and i forgot to add that you also have to have good movement so 360 , moonwalking gotta bring it all.
That is lots to do true but at least that is intense.
You : No counterplay!!1111
That is ofc vs a base kit without add ons.
What I said was your Argument About Killers just reversed. i am sure you are red rank Survivor just that you do not belong there.
I understand the argument fine. You don't understand what bullying a killer means or looks like, and you dont understand what balance should look like, obviously.
You are one of the people who claim only spirit and nurse are viable. And yes, that is true when you aren't a very skilled killer. I've seen plenty of those, even at rank 1. People don’t want to admit that if you get bullied (and the map wasn't something like haddonfield), the biggest reason is because you didn't play well.
Did you know that over here on the Asian servers the Korean players shy away from using nurse because she is too powerful? That the most popular Korean streamer never plays nurse more than once a day because he says she is broken? This player, the best nurse I've ever seen, believes nurse needed a change, and yet someone like you, who thinks that if a killer happens to lose a game it means he got bullied, someone who is only at rank 1 because playing nurse allows you to spend time there, claims to have any authority on the subject?
If you can't understand that her addons made her so unbelievably broken because her basekit allowed it, well, I guess you'll have trouble staying at rank 1 from now on..
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743086#Comment_743086
You are funny, you speak of balance yet one can bully the hell out of Killers until red ranks. Even there you can bully lots of Killers and they do not realize that they have been outplayed and dc and the Exit gates.
Nurse already has counter play.
What you meant to say was this is a good day for bad survivors who cry and do not improve and can not imrpove and thus they ruin the game for everyone be it Killer or Survivor who actually like skill in this game but since you are one of those who say Nurse has no counterplay i know where you skill lvl is at.
Killers who get bullied do not belong in red ranks. Do you ever see the top killer streamers getting bullied? I'm the same. Rank 1 killer immediately after rank reset, never feel like I'm being bullied or that I have no chance if I don't use nurse. Sorry, but all these nurse players have gone so long thinking their broken killer was balanced. I must say it is a bit nice to see them knocked down a peg. I don't even play nurse anymore because it was too powerful.
It's funny you would assume I'm a low rank player though, when literally the only reason nurse needed this nerf is because the TOP players take away counterplay against the other TOP players.
I'm sure nurse is super fun to go against and play in green ranks, or wherever you are...
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I guess all those skilled nurse players (definitely not all the ones crying in these threads) in red ranks who played addon-less and still absolutely crushed the majority of the survivors they went against will have to think about actually using addons now. Oh no, what a tragedy.
It's impossible to gauge how big of a change this will be until the PTB, but giving nurse counterplay will only help the health of this game. This is a sign that the devs are going in the right direction. If they do a major map rehaul next, the game will be as balanced as it has ever been.
This is a good day for balance. This is not a good day for whiny nurse players who think they should be able to perform against the best survivors when they themselves aren't very good. (my first impression is that nurse will still be top, just not by a country mile anymore).
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/740321#Comment_740321
Why would it not go down in the Terror Radius? I didn't say it would go down in a chase, but Deep Wounds needs too be a threat instead of a minor inconvenience. You shouldn't be mending in the middle of the open because the killer is nearby, and thus it makes it pointless.
Because that is one of the things that was exploited so much.
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The legion part: absolutely not.
"let the Deep Wounds Timer go down in the Terror Radius" - never again. Ever.
Other stuff doesn't look too bad. A bit odd that you say demo is perfectly fine but freddy could use an adjustment. Freddy is looking really strong as is.
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Nurse's calling is definitely S tier on huntress and really good for nurse. Maybe not so high for other killers though?
I'd even say move Brutal Strength up a tier. It's that good (on m1 killers)
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/737637#Comment_737637
I have never once said I should beat someone better than me, however you have said numerous times that a nurse shouldn't be able to beat you just because they got good with nurse. So a good nurse should lose no matter what? I think that's what the nurse nerf is all about, 1,000 hours in nurse can eventually be meaningless. "Considerably increases charge time"..."addon to take you back to where you blinked from"
A good nurse should win if that nurse plays better than the survivor team collectively play. That happens now.
A good survivor team should win if they play collectively better than the nurse plays. That doesn't necessarily happen now.
Nurse in her current state allows wins that shouldn't be possible, simply because that nurse has crossed a certain skill threshold.
I want fair play, and that's also why I was so against old legion. That's why I want the majority of maps to be fixed. That's why I want keys, moris, and instaheals to be looked at. And that's why nurse needs this supposed nerf that is coming her way.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/737312#Comment_737312
So the answer is to give up? Yea, if you have that mentality then you probably shouldn’t talk about balance.
Am I saying that...? I never give up, no matter who the killer is. There are lots of boosted red rank nurses only in red ranks because of nurses' kit. Probably quite a few of them in this thread. So simply seeing a nurse, even at rank 1, doesn't mean all that much.
@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/737509#Comment_737509
You definitely didn't play nurse at rank 1 enough to meet the proper SWF that can pop 5 gens no matter how fast you downed people.
Nurse didn't need nerfing before SWF had some kind of debuff.
Hahaha I definitely played her plenty, all at rank 1. If you aren't downing survivors fast enough as nurse, that's your own issue. Either you aren't controling the map well enough, don't have good perks/addons, or simply aren't that good in chases (or you got one of the terrible maps - haddonfield, Yamaoka, etc). If any of those are the case, which from talking to you enough I know to be true, then why do you think you should be able to beat those 4 SWF players who are outplaying you? It's absurd.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/737330#Comment_737330
And how many of those surveyed play only survivor?
I play more killer (about 60:40) and played a fair amount of nurse before I got really good with her and started feeling dirty for playing as her.
And how many of the people who think nurse is fine aren't that skilled at nurse, and aren't the reason why she needs to be nerfed? I would say close to all of them.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/736843#Comment_736843
Some do, but the percentage is embarrassingly low.
When you exhaust all other options (as if you really have any against a good nurse), you might as well try to get those stun bloodpoints, because if the nurse wants your team dead that game you probably aren't getting many bloodpoints that game.
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@MrPeterPFL said:
I feel like people who say Nurse is "OP" has never played as Nurse before
I have a feeling people who say nurse isn't OP aren't good with other killers and think they should be able to hang in high ranks because playing nurse allows them to play at a higher rank than they actually should be.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/735471#Comment_735471
All of that sums up to be "I don't play nurse, I play some of the other killers and if I lose to SWF who cares it just means I am not that good"
If you overhaul the maps average survivors will never win and they quit and the game dies.
If we want to talk about conditioning? Survivors are conditioned to think they can pallet loop and mock the killer but when a good nurse shows up their party is over and omg she is so broken.
Played nurse a lot. Got tired of winning every game.
The map comment: yikes.
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It's so amusing that so many of you nurse players expect to be able to compete with a 4-man sweaty SWF with the best survivors when most of you just aren't that good.
You have been conditioned to think you should be able to beat the best survivors because nurse allows you to unfairly compete with the best even when you are not the best, and if the devs remove that from you (which you are all so scared of), that will only be a good thing.
The best killer players perform well with all killers against the best survivors. I've never been in a game where I thought 'there was nothing I could have done to win'. Yet I see you people post 'without nurse this game would have been a loss' again and again.
The only changes killers need are a huge map rehaul and slight changes to the lowest of the low tier (legion, doc) to give them more relevance.
If you can't perform against the best players, that's because you aren't the best. Nurse being in her broken state for so long has warped your perception of what is balanced. As a killer main myself (huntress, plague, demo, trapper are my most played), who also plays a decent amount of survivor, if the devs are taking nurse off her godly perch and making skill vs skill matter in that matchup, that's a good thing.
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She is one of the best m1 killers.
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S+ tier here we come!
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/733010#Comment_733010
No I was saying playing survivor is brainless...
I..know..that that's what you said..?
And I responded that if you don't play smart as survivor then you will lose?
That's what brainless means - that you can do well with no effort or game smarts. And that's simply not true. Just ask all those survivors down in brown ranks when you join their lobbies..
Here's where you say "playing survivor is just an m1 simulator!" And you're right, it can be, against BAD killers.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/733010#Comment_733010
No it just shows they disagree with your assertion and agenda.
Yup, what a terrible agenda - trying to remove or alter the unfun things from the game: insta-heals, keys, ebony moris, prayer beads, high level nurse's potential to remove counterplay against survivors of all skill levels. If you oppose that 'agenda' then you're not interested in this being a healthy game.
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/732579#Comment_732579
Just for you chief... survivors even more brainless
Brainless survivors get destroyed at every rank, just as brainless killers do too.
You are very good at giving advice to survivors that works against brainless killers. Keep it up!
I happen to think spirit, albeit being quite strong, is fine if the player uses Iron Will. If not then she borders on too powerful. But prayer beads is obviously a terribly designed, unfun and unbalanced addon...and people who defend it, well, it really shows their bias.
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Yes, it feels super awkward sitting there not being able to do anything for those few seconds.
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Love all the nurse players trying to reassure themselves they are changing only the addons when it was said multiple times it isn't just the addons.
@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/732247#Comment_732247
I disagree, the game is absolutely balanced around low ranks. it's pretty much the only reason Demo and GF were nerfed, even when everyone was saying he doesn't need it. They cater too the majority, which is low ranks.
If this game is balanced around low ranks then it is pretty horribly balanced. Killers absolutely dominate in low ranks.
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Stopped playing nurse long ago, anyways. She's too easy to get wins with.
I main huntress, so huntress.
Billy and Spirit aren't even close to nurse, though, definitely not on the same tier. They're fine. (get rid of prayer beads)
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/731480#Comment_731480
'4000 hours and still having trouble understanding how this game should be balanced. Yikes."
You are sorely confused, that's understandable.
"Hours means literally nothing."
To someone who doesn't have them.
"You'll be amazed at what is possible with Killer if you know how to play!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MirsEPhMPgM
Here's a video to help you out. It will teach you most the basics.
"Or keep thinking that killers are super underpowered when players better than you tell you otherwise."
Or you'll finally get to rank 1 on both sides and realize how lost you are. One day you'll learn :)
*sigh* just watch what I suggested. You might learn a few things. Or don't and continue being a 4000 hour player who thinks you can only win with nurse.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/731444#Comment_731444
"Not that hours mean a darned thing"
Hours represent experience.
"but I'm at 2000+ hours."
I'm at 4000
"if you can't hit rank 1 very soon into rank reset I'm not surprised you're having difficulties."
Who said I wasn't hitting rank 1 very soon after reset? I hit rank 1 right right after every reset
"Some players, no matter how long they play can't hang with the best survivors"
Which would explain why you're confused. If you'd like some tips there are quite a few beginners guides on youtube available.
4000 hours and still having trouble understanding how this game should be balanced. Yikes.
Hours means literally nothing. If you don't have skill, you won't be good, regardless of how much you play. My friend has probably triple the time in overwatch that I do and he can never get past gold while I'm grandmaster. Doing the same thing poorly over and over again doesn't make you better than people with natural talent.
Again, check out what I recommended. You'll be amazed at what is possible with Killer if you know how to play! Or keep thinking that killers are super underpowered when players better than you tell you otherwise. Whatever works!
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/731380#Comment_731380
Of that I highly doubt.
I've had rank 1 on both sides for years and probably have more hours than you and all your friends have combined.
Oh dear. Not that hours mean a darned thing, but I'm at 2000+ hours.
It is impressive that you have been hitting rank 1 for so long. Remember back then when it was Sooooooo difficult to rank up? Yup, so hard. But mate, if you can't hit rank 1 very soon into rank reset I'm not surprised you're having difficulties.
Some players, no matter how long they play can't hang with the best survivors. Watch Sal-gu, the Korean streamer if you'd like some tips. I'd show you myself, but I don't stream.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/731336#Comment_731336
I play both sides at rank 1 of which I'm sure you do not given your opinion.
Rank 1 both sides within the first few days of rank reset. You just hitting rank 1 now?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/720649#Comment_720649
The games current "average" is extremely weak and not rank 1 viable.
For you.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/731042#Comment_731042
That just shows he's a good nurse player. Not that base nurse is op
Hahahhahahhahahhaha
That's the whole point...that in the hands of a good player nurse is too overpowering.
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@Financial_Stability said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/730352#Comment_730352
We're talking strictly without addons.
It's good to add a little extra perspective, for all those console players and nurse mains who think nurse is fine.
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Against solo survivors basekit nurse wins every game if the nurse plays well.
Against SWF teams a nurse with addons wins every game if the nurse plays well (and doesn't get a terrible map).
If that is people's idea of balanced, I would never be interested in playing a game they create.
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@Financial_Stability said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/729453#Comment_729453
I don't know how you'd know what the top survivors vs a top nurse would do against each other given no items or addons or offerings. Sure, I acquiesce that maps do play a large part, but I'm fairly sure you haven't seen a team that has such experience against Nurse. You can't just say a god Nurse will beat anyone and anything without taking into consideration the types of counters survivors can employ. Fact is, most public games are filled with people who don't necessarily want to learn a different way of countering a killer other than the method that is most prevalent today (looping, pallets, and windows). Sure you probably have never experienced it. But I implore you to actually consider it given the person you're talking to has a vast amount of experience beyond public matches. There are a wealth of strategies that competitive survivors employ, not all being in the realm of public knowledge.
You don't know me or what I do or do not know. It's so amazingly arrogant to think you are the only person with experience against top-tier nurses. Especially when that experience is tournaments no one has heard of. Forgive me if I don't put any stock into your 'experience' when everything that has come out of the North American scene has been pretty lackluster. Case in point: the de-pip squads' games against nurses. When I first heard about that experiment I thought "oh, maybe nurse isn't as strong as I thought" Nope. Just terrible nurse after terrible nurse getting handled by good players.
Everything you've said has been the same vague meanginless words that all people defending nurse say. "oh, there are ways to beat nurse, but people just don't want to learn!" Give me a break. It's hilarious how you nurse mains think you are the only players with any skill/knowledge in the game.
Watched that stuffed by daylight final game. 3k with leatherface (4k if you didn't get mindgamed super hard at the end) against 4 survivors on comms trying their best to win a cash prize on Yamaoka, one of the worst killer maps in the game. I think that's all I need to say about the quality of that match...Not even nurse. Okay? Why even mention that. If this is your "experience", it is nothing more than pretty average red rank players on the Asian servers. Try watching some of those games. You'll be impressed.
I truly don't understand how you nurse players can be so blind when it comes to balance.
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@ABannedCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/729438#Comment_729438
That's strong by today's standards. Most survivors nowadays are so unwilling to adapt to anything outside the looping-meta. Hence why people cry about Spirit.
Do you actually believe what you write? You claim that it isn't a balance problem (nurse being too strong), but that most survivors don't know how to play. Where are these survivors who are trying to loop nurse at pallets? I never see that, and I'm always playing at rank 1 survivor/killer. The fact is, a good nurse will have you down in at MOST 2 sets of blinks if they use their power well (regardless of what you as the survivor do). If you are not able to consistently do that, that is your own problem. And that nurse, if she is a good player, is able to 12 hook 4k equally skilled survivor teams consistently. If you think that is balanced, you're too far gone.
Oh, and people cry about spirit because if you are not using Iron Will and the spirit isn't deaf, you're dead in the water. I always use Iron Will, so it's not bad for me, but it's pretty troubling that a perk is absolutely needed to do well against one killer.
I don't know where the notion that 'survivors aren't good/smart' anymore came from, but it's such a ridiculous notion that I'm surprised anyone believes it (although I suppose it allows nurse mains to feel better about 4k'ing all the time - if they claim survivors are just all terrible, it's easier to convince yourself you deserve all those 4ks)
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@Bravo0413 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/729260#Comment_729260
Why would you even consider dropping a pallet to begin with? Nurse is all about LOS breaking and mind games
You use what you have around you against nurse, and if you are a really good survivor you can even use pallets against not as good nurses.
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I love these nurse threads. Always filled with the same nurse mains clinging to the hope that their imbalanced killer isn't broken.
All other killers require the use of addons at the highest level - not nurse. And yet 'nurse basekit is fine'? LOL
It is so clear that a huge maps overhaul for the weaker killers (smaller, better designed) and a nurse BASEKIT nerf are what is needed to make this game closer to balanced. But that would anger the legions of nurse mains who think that just because they've put some time into the killer that they deserve to dominate all but the best survivors even when they themselves are not very good Killers. Some of the killers with the worst game sense I've seen are nurse players at red ranks, relying on her overpowered kit to carry them.
@Financial_Stability said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/729229#Comment_729229
I've been a Nurse main since release and have partaken in several tournaments. I've won TydeTyme's 750$ stuffed by daylight tourney and my team won most of Space Esports 150$ weekly ritual tournaments (4/10 I believe). I can say that for certain, basekit at the highest end of play is balanced, and at the end of the day survivors who know what they're doing will have the upper hand. I may only provide anecdotal evidence, but I come from a position of authority in this matter. I've seen the best players in this game absolutely destroy a great Nurse using no addons with all perks allowed. My own team even can wipe the floor with me from time to time.
The only way the best survivors are beating the best nurse is if that nurse plays poorly or they get a bad map.
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The only instance where slugging is an issue is if it is a nurse slugging. Even if the survivors play well they can be put in a situation where they are slugged and lose the game. Other than that, if the whole team is slugged (against killers other than nurse) it is their own fault, allowing that kind of snowball to end the game.
Slugging against smart survivors can easily backfire if the survivors have game sense. If your whole team gets slugged, your team lost.
And as for points, I've been in situations where everyone is their last hook and they end up getting slugged then. As a killer I have as many points as I could have gotten.
There are so many things about this game that need fixing (maps, nurse at the top of that list), but slugging is not a problem at all.
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If you don't have Iron Will going against Spirit is not fun at all. So I always have Iron Will. During the blood hunt I took Iron Will off for WAGLF. I went against a few spirits and I felt so powerless.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
I mean, some people are saying that only Nurse and Spirit are viable at Red Ranks. Which is false. However, I would say that Nurse and Spirit are the only Killers who can actually fight high-coordinated 4 man SWFs. But those are really a minority (a really, really small minority), so the game should never be balanced around those kind of groups.
But in Red Ranks vs Solos or more Casual SWFs, I think there are more Killers which are capable of winning. Some examples can be easily seen on Stream, even if tru3 is saying that only Spirit or Nurse are viable, he gets 4Ks with other Killers. TheEntityLeftHand is playing Trapper at Rank 1, one of the more weaker Killers (however, he is playing that much Trapper, sure he does good with it).
In my opinion, the following Killers can work at Red Ranks:
Nurse, Spirit-->vs highly coordinated 4 man SWFs
Nurse, Spirit, Billy, Hag, Myers, Huntress, Plague, Freddy, Pig (I might be biased here, had really good games lately with Pig and she might become my favorite Killer)--->Red Ranks vs Solos or Casual SWFs
The rest is more or less viable at Purple Ranks, with some Killers (looking at you Wraith, Legion, Doctor, Leatherface) needing more improvements than others.
But yeah, you can play basically every Killer at Red Ranks and have a good experience, but should not expect to win every game.
And that paragraph is how it should be, which many people don't seem to understand. They say "I can't 12 hook 4k these really strong, good survivors with my legion! IMBA!" It's like...of course you can't? The thing is, every killer has the potential (yes, every killer) to at least tie even the best SWF teams (if that killer is one of the best too), and plays well in that game.
Unfortunately this ranking system has squewed many killer's views of what a win and a loss is. Yes, some of the lower tier killers could use some maintenence, but acting like killers are getting hard bullied is a flat out lie. The best killers are able to perform against the best survivors. Period. One of the streamers I would recommend you people watch is Sal-gu. Go watch him handle those big bad skilled SWF groups.
All the doom and gloom from unskilled killer players is getting so old.
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@kate_best_girl said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/724796#Comment_724796
Would you stop being a rude person for like 3 seconds? You have zero proof as I just tried your little trick in a KYF lobby and guess what! It doesnt work since by the time your attack cooldown is done, just like I predicted, they're upstairs and at the window!
You gain distance and get them on the next go-around, or one after that if you don't run it well enough. Of course you aren't catching them when they first pop balanced landing..
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/724556#Comment_724556
To be clear, you know I been playing Dead by Daylight before Devotion was a thing, right? Therefore, you can't base my play time on devotion because you have no idea how long I been playing before devotion was introduced.
Also, I don't like to say how many hours I have because then it turns this thread into a hours contest and I want to avoid that!
However, to give you some context on my hours without saying specifically, the pictures actually mean a lot if I'm a rank 1 console Nurse main because as you mentioned, it's a lot harder to play her, which means I'm definitely better than your typical rank one player — I know what I'm saying.
I know Haddonfield is not an infinite, but with Balanced Landing (and very rarely without Balanced Landing) you're basically creating a semi-infinite just by getting Haddonfield.
I want to define what a Semi-infinite is because I don't want people getting this confused! :D
Semi-infinite: The loop is so strong that it would cost the killer the game if they tried to chase a survivor in this loop.
No map should have a semi-infinite, period. I explained why in my previous comments how damaging, and unhealthy this is for the game.
Edit: Sorry if I sound rather oppressive, I don't mean it to come out that way! This is a very passionate subject for me, and I want you to understand why I feel like Balanced Landing makes Haddonfield almost an infinite. 😕
Sure, I don't disagree with anything you've said. I've been pretty consistent on these forums in saying that map design is the single biggest balance issue in the game right now, with Haddonfield being at the top of that list.
I too have many, many hours in this game, and I know what is possible for the killer and what isn't. I can live with your definition of this loop being a semi-infinite, and giant waste of time to attempt a chase in.
My issue is the people who don’t even know that attacking in the direction you want to go while falling is quicker than simply falling. Or the people @justarandy who want to 1v1 over something that is not skill-based in the least. If you have good pathing, you will catch up as killer. Simple. (I'm not directing what I'm saying at you, now). It is those people I have an issue with because they make balance more difficult for the devs. They don't understand core game mechanics, and are very vocal in their whining. (even though - AGAIN - I agree that this Haddonfield house needs to be torn down, and the whole map remade)
@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/722549#Comment_722549
To be fair this map was made in 2016, they didn't even know back then how to balance the maps.
They still don't know how to make maps.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/724281#Comment_724281
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/204/IZMKNMAN7JZF.png
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/865/CA9I35U7RUGT.png
Yes, I read what you wrote, and I definitely put time on both sides — I know what I'm talking about.
That's not going to work because the survivor will wait for the red stain to touch the window for a split second, then vault. Some survivors wait for the killer to commit to the vaulting animation before jumping off (unless your Spirit). Furthermore, even if you mind game them, you have to go back down the stairs and catch back up to them. By the time you catch back up, they are going to be at a pallet, and once the killer breaks it — rinse and repeat this paragraph because you know where they are going next while you break it. Even worse, if they predict which way you leave the house, they will just go right back to the safe vault (rinse and repeat).
Just because something has some counter play doesn't justify how broken Haddonfield is. Both sides should have fair counterplay, but Haddonfield is skewed towards the survivors 9/10 times. This shouldn't be the case, period. 🤷♂️
Just to top it all off, you KNOW it's bad when killers are forced to ignore a portion of the map because it will cost them the entire game. If played correctly, there shouldn't be a loop so powerful that it costs the killer the game, never.
That's my arguement with reasoning and justification.
I'll only respond to you now because you are the only one who isn't blinded by ignorance. And because I respect someone who plays nurse on console.
But, like, I agree with you? I said so many times that this is the worst map in the game and this house is terrible to try to chase in, but it ain't no infinite. Of that I'm sure. Next time you are killer on that map do what I said and you'll see. Even against a Survivor who runs the route optimally you will catch up.
But man, you are devotion 2, that's still kind of a new player in this game. Just saying. And people who can't consistently hit rank 1 on both sides shouldn't be talking about balance issues. I just assume that people who want to discuss balance are able to be rank 1 on both sides. But there is a huge, huge skill spread between a good rank 1 and a noobie rank 1. So, showing those pictures doesn't really mean much...taking those pictures at the very beginning of rank reset would at least mean something. Anyways, take some advice from someone with many, many more hours in the game. And from someone who originally played console before switching to PC, I'll tell you that no, on console it is impossible to rotate your camera as quick as you can on PC. So doing that thing I said will be less effective on console.
I am all for Haddonfield just being deleted. It is a terrible map. But I really don't like misinformation being spread, too.