Omans
Omans
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It's just baffling that they take away old ruin (which helps the early game where killers are weakest and most prone to being Gen rushed), and replace it with something that does the exact opposite, while still remaining a Hex.
Do they not understand that late game hexes are not good? Want to know why people don't run Huntress's lullaby? Because a Hex perk that doesn't become good until late game is basically worthless (excluding NOED of course, as it can't be seen until end game).
The first chase of the game is the most important at high ranks. End of story. Taking away the best perk to defend against the early game Gen rush and replacing it with this new Ruin is so short-sighted.
Devs, you have lots of really good players in here telling you this is a giant mistake. Most of us actually wouldn't mind a reworked ruin if it gave some similar early game relief.
Please, please watch some actual high rank gameplay.
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Sorry, but matchmaking is a joke right now. Playing at rank 1 I'm 4k'ing almost every game without ruin. If I was playing against true rank 1 survivors every game without ruin it would be a much different story.
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@aurum_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/989753#Comment_989753
I'm rank 1 with 1700+ hours: never took SC off my builds, and i have an equivalent escape rate of survivors that hasn't SC in theirs. What "anti-selfcare" players don't understand is that escape in a DbD match don't depend totally on the perks you have in your build but from your playstyle and looping skills. Self-Care still useful in late phases of the game, when you're in solo queue.
The anti self-care people don't understand that. They think that being a good survivor is only about running the killer well. They often only do gens in the safest areas of the map when injured and let their teammates take all the aggro. At the end of the game when everyone is dead and they still haven't been hooked (because they went against a good killer who understands which parts of maps not to chase in), they often think they carried, and that their teammates weren't good.
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Huntress main here.
I really hope they rework that addon into something fun for both sides. Whether you are killer or survivor, if that addon is used it is bound to be a super boring game.
Maybe change it to something like - shots at a certain distance give the survivor the deep wound status effect. If you are good at hitting shots it would have potential to be a big time waster for survivors. But I don't know, anything would be more fun than the current iri heads.
Or like you can throw 2 to 3 hatchets at once, each hatchet going in different directions. That would be really cool, and fitting with the 'red addons give the killer a different play style' direction the devs seem to be heading in.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Can I say instead of reworking one of them and taking 6 months to do so, can we just do small tweaks to like, 80% of them with fixes that would only take a day or two at most?
It's terrible that killers have to place some maps like groaning storehouse as an example are completely different just because of one window which may or may not even be open. Without the window open, it's a decent map. When it is open, it's completely skewed in the survivor's favor.
Yes, please. This is the answer right here.
Devs, if you read this, this is exactly what you need to do.
You spent so much time on the Badham preschool maps, making 5 iterations of them and they're still not even that good...and from what I've seen the new Lery's map looks pretty cool, but again, that's one out of what, 30 maps?
I don't think the devs realize just how bad some of these maps are. If you get Haddonfield as killer and the survivors aren't potatoes then you can't win.
If all maps were like Macmillan maps you would see a lot less outrage about the ruin nerf.
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If you are not willing to take a hit for a teammate, or use borrowed time (which is useful in probably 90+ percent of matches), then you have probably caused your team to die more than you are aware.
Borrowed time is easily one of the best survivor perks, and can mean the difference between a full team wipe and everyone escaping.
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Bring a medkit? Most killers in my region bring a mori if they see items.
Bond? Doesn't guarantee you'll get that heal faster than self-care.
Inner strength? You're spending almost the same amount of time, ignoring the fact you actually have to find a totem.
Just loop? Not every area of the map allows you the same opportunities to loop. If you only stay in safe areas just so YOU won't go down, you are letting your team down, while the killer secures his 3-gen/victory. Smart killers don't chase players who refuse to leave the strongest parts of maps. While these survivors are thinking they are so good, they might actually just be throwing the game for their team.
The people who claim self-care is always a waste of time get their teams killed as much as people who run to the corner of the map to self-care. Both of these kinds of players are not helpful for their team, with the former thinking they have much more game sense than they actually do.
If I played in an SWF or knew that all of my teammates would be as good as me, I would agree that bringing self-care wouldn't be wise. But if you play solo-queue, which a lot of people do, having self-care is absolutely not a waste.
I have to wonder if the people who say "just be good at looping" have ever actually faced good killer players. That extra heal state you can get from self-care has the potential to extend a chase a long time. At the same time, just one mistake while in an injured state can lose the game for your team. This 'mistake' can easily be forced by good Killers.
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It's honestly hilarious watching these players who definitely only play survivor (and absolutely not in red ranks) telling people who have thousands of hours and tons of experience in the game that they need to get good, and that ruin is a crutch perk.
Like, before you attempt to talk about game balance you should actually be good at the game (I can guarantee that people saying this is a good change are not good/don't have nearly enough experience in this game to be talking about balance).
This change to ruin is the worst change they have ever made.
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Everyone experienced in this game knows this change to ruin will take the game in the absolute wrong direction. Everyone except for the devs, it seems.
It is already so difficult to find a game as a survivor on the Asian servers, where survivors are no-nonsense and don't waste any time. This change to ruin will most likely take queue times for survivors up to 10-15+ minutes as more and more skilled, experienced killers get tired of having to strain themselves so far beyond what the survivors have to do just to have a chance to even tie.
I hope the devs listen to some of the feedback like this post. If they don't, they may as well get used to seeing lots of "I can't take this game anymore" posts.
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Obviously it is best to test things first, but I will tentatively say that this is the worst change the devs have ever come up with.
At the highest ranks, the first chase is the most important. This change makes it so that even if you get a quick chase in the early game, 3 gens will probably pop. This change is...mind boggling.
Maybe the devs don't play in red ranks and don't watch high rank gameplay?
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Try to be creative with huntress. You'll be amazed at the shots you never thought you could have made.
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@Sluzzy said:
I'd absolutely love to watch Mathieu play her at red ranks, all of whom are using dead hard.
And what would that accomplish, when he isn't a red rank killer himself?
You may find it hard to believe, but even though it is more punishing if you make mistakes as nurse, true red rank nurse players still find themselves at the top of the Tier list, or at least tied with spirit.
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@Endstille said:
I think the biggest problem regarding huntress is not iri, don't get me wrong, it is annoying.
However the real problem are the broken hit-/hurt- boxes that make hits happen that are just outright bs. They should nerf those so that this killer actually requires anything resembling skill.
Hahahahahahahaha
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A killer who should actually be rank 1 shouldn't have fun deranking. Games are too easy even at purple ranks.
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There are so many maps that should have been reworked first. It is a tad frustrating that even though the balance of the game seems to be going in the right direction, the map design keeps holding it back.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/951137#Comment_951137
You can stay at red ranks indefinitely because there are enough survivors who are absolutely trash to help you stay there. Scrubs will still get bodied by her. Competent survivors now don’t fear her at all because there is built in, foolproof counterplay.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Nurse players before the nerf, as a whole, were the most boosted group of players I've seen.
Competent survivors fear Competent nurses still. I never feared nurses who weren't good, or were just decent. Those players aren't the reason she was nerfed. But those players are most vocal right now about her nerf, now that it isn't super easy to 4k with her just by learning her a bit.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/949347#Comment_949347
Red ranks before nurse even existed. I was infinited by every survivor and then called trash. So I had a very deep and passionate love for the nurse because she stopped bold survivors in their tracks and said NO to god loops. Unfortunately, she's been nerfed so much she can now be abused. Max of 2 blinks on a cooldown can't stop fast survivors that know how to juke. By the time you recover from your mistakes and constantly using 2 blinks to catch up, the other 3 are humping gens and its a gg. Completely ruined because the devs actually believed your survivor-main propaganda that she had no counterplay. There is no killer that good survivors fear now and I think that's very, very bad.
If you say she is fair now, you make me believe you are a survivor main.
Sorry to say, but that might just mean that you don't actually belong in red ranks, if you are getting abused by survivors there.
Good survivor players fear good killer players. And vice versa..as it should be. Of course some of the terribly designed maps like Haddonfield push the advantage in favor of good survivors, but literally every killer has that problem. That's a map problem, not a "nurse is terrible now" problem (because she isn't).
I don't claim that huntress needs a buff because winning against a sweaty SWF on Haddonfield as Huntress is basically mission impossible. I look at what the real problem is (huge, terrible maps).
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/948961#Comment_948961
If you play red rank killer enough you'll see it's actual reality.
You've been to red ranks...? The content of your many posts about nurse led me to believe differently...
@TruEternity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/948747#Comment_948747
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/948747#Comment_948747
She takes thought to use now. Previously Nurse was just too easy for me to enjoy. I had to intentionally not try or goof off. Now I actually have to aim my blinke properly, and react correctly to survivor jukes. She doesn’t feel like pure easy cheese anymore, I enjoy the challenge of properly using her power. Even without add ons she was way, way too easy to succeed with at a basic level.
Nurse only lost her map pressure on large maps, that’s it. She still dominates smaller-medium maps. As for the cooldown, I feel people were just used to an overpowered ability, and refuse to adjust.
I too have played nurse much more than I ever did before the nerf. She was fundamentally a broken killer then. Now that she actually feels fair I'm sure more people will start to pick her up. Probably not more than the number of people looking for easy wins who played her before and have now dropped her, but still a respectable number.
But pleasing those kinds of people is impossible. They seriously thought basekit nurse, a killer stronger than any other killer using their strongest addons, was fine as she was. You can't really reason with that mentality, can you?
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/115520/why-is-nobody-talking-about-nurse-anymore
Why is nobody talking about Nurse anymore? Easy answer
Those who were not good with the nurse stopped playing her and play now different killers. Those who are actually good with her, still play her and still own everyone.
And for survivors. Because of that, you dont get a nurse very often anymore. Geting rect by a nurse every once in like 20 games is no big deal.
Here is the best answer in this thread. Thread closed.
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@BhSMRT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/810408#Comment_810408
Sorry, you're thinking of god tier Nurse's. "Most" Nurse's were just really good with her, and these changes when playing against good survivors will not "always" hit you with those 2 blinks. Get real.
"Just hit your blinks 100% of the time, every time 5head" With changes that make that incredibly difficult. There's been plenty of posts on here that go into the details as to why what looks like a minor change is a massive one, but thankfully we have people like you to remind us that it's basically the same, just hit your blinks.
Word to the wise, devs, a killer should be strong without addons. Any killer that is reliant on addons to be strong is bad design. This game is filled with it and addon issues you just barely got around to addressing. Like, how has Doctor been out this entire time and you think that his pitiful distance for his shock is acceptable? You literally NEED a range addon for it. FOR A KILLER THAT'S ALREADY GARBAGE WITH OR WITHOUT IT! lol. You don't need an entire rework to simply buff the range of his shock, but you can't even do that because you're so afraid, or incapable, of balancing your game.
So they made her difficulty actually match her insane potential to win games. And yet all these nurse mains are crying because they are realizing they actually have to be better than the survivors they are facing now (let's face it, in red ranks the highest number of boosted killers looking for easy wins was nurse players).
If I miss my hatchets as huntress I am punished by having to go reload. Nurse, the killer with the highest level of difficulty, now is unable to spam blinks until everyone is dead. That is a good thing.
If I miss my hatchets, I am heavily punished. That is fair, because huntress is a strong killer, able to end chases quickly.
If you miss your blinks, you are heavily punished. This is fair, because nurse is the killer who is able to end chases as fast as/faster than the rest of the killer roster.
Yes, the change sucks for new players. But, oh, wait, new players shouldn't be starting with nurse.
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The thread is about Legion, and yet...the same nurse mains try to make the thread all about Nurse.
She is still top tier. Get over it. She's not fun? Go play a different killer. What do you want? The devs to return her back to her own tier that no other killer could even get close to? Too bad. Learn to adapt.
I honestly can't believe some of the self-proclaimed nurse mains in here claiming she is "weak". Or survivors can "just run in a straight line". Like, if the survivors are just running in a straight line and you can't catch them, that's because you made a mistake. With old nurse you could get outplayed hard and still catch the survivor faster than an m1 killer would have been able to. That sort of imbalanced gameplay isn't coming back. The devs seem to have learned from the mistakes they made by creating old legion/old nurse.
Again, she ain't weak so don't even pretend she is. And if you don't think she is fun, don't play her. Freddy is really strong but I don’t find his gameplay fun, so I just don't play him.
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Nurse players spent years at the top of the tier list alone, claiming she was fine balance wise - that survivors just needed to get gud and learn to play against her. Adapt was the word so often used. Just adapt!
Now that it is their turn to adapt they don't like it. "She isn't fun!!" You know what? I only play in red ranks in a region well-known for its amazing nurses. Faced so many of them before our regions were split by the servers. Playing against those nurses was incredibly unfun.
There is a reason why you only see the same names in every thread about nurse. So many people have no sympathy for these nurse mains who aren't having fun anymore. All other killers must play with few to none mistakes at the highest level in order to win. It's absolutely absurd that nurse mains alone expect to be the exception. Now you have to hit your blinks consistently to win. That isn't fun? Oh well. Find another killer. Maybe they'll revisit Nurse down the road if enough people stop playing her, but don't expect any changes any time soon.
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Yeah, map design is quite obviously the biggest balance issue in the game. But the devs don't seem to realize it. They keep making huge maps (the plague map) and awfully dark/huge maps like the new Oni map. These are not good maps.
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@Chewy102 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/933698#Comment_933698
Not buggy, just bad timing and user error.
To keep using Souls games as an example, using DH is like attempting to parry someone.
In Souls you gotta predict them and account for latency or you'll tank a hit to the face to have your opponent land his attack during your parry frames. In DbD you gotta predict the Killer and account for latency to have his attack land during your i-frames. Both are the exact same thing. Both are small time windows, both depend on latency, and both can end badly if done poorly.
Git gud in other words. Like it or not, this entire thread boils down to user error in you not having proper timings to use DH or failing to build personal skill.
Nope.
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As a huntress main, I really hope they change iri heads. They make the game super boring for both sides. I haven't used them in the longest time because they are just so...boring for everyone.
Borrowed time is fine.
Decisive could use another look at.
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Fixing awful maps like Haddonfield, Yamaoka, etc, and fixing the huge amount of bugs that keep popping up should be first on the list of things to do for the devs.
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The devs aren't foolish enough to revert the basekit changes. Basekit nurse was the strongest killer in the game, over all killers using addons. Reverting nurse basekit changes would be almost as big of a mistake as creating the first iteration of Legion.
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Yikes. People actually complaining about Oni? When he doesn't have his power he is an M1 killer. When he activates his power you can do two things, both of which work very well: loop, or hide. I've been playing both Oni and survivor against Oni, and so often I've seen survivors running in the open as if unaware that Oni's power punishes that harshly. Loop well or stealth well. You can punish him for activating his power by doing those two things.
Like billy, if anyone on your team is not good, you are probably going to get stomped. Billy can stomp teams with one weak player, and Oni can do the same. That's a rank/matchmaking problem, not killer problem.
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Haddonfield, Yamaoka, Ormond. Too big. Too strong for survivors. Other maps could definitely use some tune-ups too, but those are the three worst maps.
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The small fences on Haddonfield? Yes, of course. Why wouldn't you be able to?
I think this is the first time I've ever seen a Survivor player complain about Haddonfield!
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@kisfenkin said:
I'm sorry but don't like that idea. I have no interest in being grouped with someone on the other side of the planet just because they clicked my region. I'd rather wait for a fair match.
Also, your assessment of Japanese players is pretty much racist. The descriptions you are giving are not of Japanese players but of rank 20-15 players. I'm guessing you are also grouped with other enormous Asian countries like China, South Korea, etc. but you are calling out one specific group of people. So, rank up. There is no way survivors at rank 1 are doing the stuff you describe.
He's actually right. Japanese players are pretty famous for playing that way even in red ranks. I'm on the Korean server, and I haven't seen a Russian player since these servers/region lock went live. So yeah, he pretty much is just playing with the people he says he is playing with.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870201#Comment_870201
Why do you even give a guarantee out? Don't come at me for asking you about it when you write it.
You should read more, there has been alot of feedback from nurseplayers and survivors who actually do miss old nurse because these people like me share the feeling that old addonless nurse was the best killer there was with just the right intensity. You are the one sitting in the echochamber, this very forum is proof that not all people are happy with it. You want more? Go to steam there is enough there too. I don't spend alot of time on reddit but I imagine that there are people with this feeling as well.
So for the future when you talk about facts, you might want to get them right instead of confusing your opinion with facts and believing that your opinion is shared by most people. This is where you totally make you unbelievable, you don't speak for yourself, you try to speak for others like your statement about the korean server. Do you mind telling me does japan share a server with korea? If so there even was a person from japan giving feedback to the changes, ptb section. Guess what he didn't agree with it and probably is one of those outside of 99+% eh?
I don't get your logic, why does there have to be outrage? People make comments and statements. I see the community split around it, some share your opinion and do actually like the changes and some don't. Also the rework has been overshadowed by the "nerf" to survivors instaheal, such nerf much wow, having protection against exposed and instadowns. Not everybody is as passionate about every subject, pretending that nothing has been said is again not true just because you missed it.
No it is not people who are tired, it is you who is tired. Why you always have to hide behind other people and try to give your statements more weight?
Blablalbla i speak for the entire asian continent, we are all tired of the this topic.Now here is a suggestion for you, don't participate in the topic when you are so tired of it instead of going into the topic and throwing around insults and telling people to shut up and git gud. I mean why do you even read it, bother to respond and so on when you are so tired of it?
He wanted to proof that nurse always wins no matter what, so why not make it the most challenging and go without addons that is literally the point of"no matter what" isn't it? Sorry I don't get that logic, equipping broken ######### and say hey i can always win was what everybody agreed upon. So proof for nurse being broken wouldve been the same challenge without any addons but he wouldve never been able to pull that off and that is why he chose to play the broken addons in the first place. I don't lie about it i only saw him play those addons. I have to admit I didn't see the entire experiment because I was bored pretty quickly, broken addons and survivors who try to play against him who didn't bring items. So yeah maybe he switched it up.
No I am not going to say you are speaking for the devs, you didn't claim it yet so why would I say that? Because you made actually an assumption on their feelings about nurse? Nah.
Diffrence between him/my squad is that we do not try to proof anything or even stream. I just thought, hey keeping track of things could be interesting. We do face our moris, beads and so on. Do you actually believe that we somehow do have only killers that play vanilla style? I don't think it makes much sense to argue about hypothesis, you think we only have a chance there fine I disagree. We will probably never know so best to avoid that part.
Big diffrence is also that I prefer slight balance adjustments instead of bringing the hammer like the impact of nurse is felt in addition with servers.
Conclusions from those (the stats) are a whole diffrent thing. For example I as a player do not feel able to play solo survivor mostly due to the fact that I can not stand the stupidity of some randoms (do not feel offended if you play solo survivor, i know there are very good ones out there too). I just do not want to be bothered by that because I literally wonder how these people managed up in red ranks. This is something that you will find in various posts about survivors, reason number one to die is not the killer but instead the dumb teammate. Dominance can have several reasons maybe it was also due to some people simply not belonging where they are ,being boosted or do you deny that these people exist?
Yeah I know what a snowball is but it is strange isn't it? They heard you coming, you need 4 hits and yet somehow they went down there right at the beginning that would be the part what I said earlier, one or both of them made a huge mistake.
Also do you really like these changes? Before you answer understand that I mean the addons and what they offer when you have stuff like the new freddy in the game. I find them damn boring to be honest, a part of my frustration comes from that. Do you enjoy making people scream, being able to blink to where you came from or blink forward while there are obvious filler addons with the meme addons, reduce lunge, reduce range. Also why is there still the bug where she is stuck in a loop of breathings while charging blink until she is letting go? They should've fixed that at least.
I think maybe why I do not have fun is due to the fact that with old nurse, when being good with her, you didn't need to play optimal. That kinda was the premise for me, get good with that killer and you can play how you like. Now there is this killer that is still strong but is not fun due to being restricted to play optimal.
Don't get me wrong this is not a pissing contest and it is a good thing that people have diffrent opinions. Everybody nodding and agreeing to everything would be the equivalent of sheep.
Way too much meandering to reply to. I'll reply to your last question: yes, I like these changes for the exact reason you said. You said you didn't have to play optimally at rank 1 (I assume?) as nurse and were still able to perform very well consistently. That is something I strongly believe shouldn't be possible.
The thing that nurse mains seem to gloss over is that literally every killer can win very easily against survivors who aren't the best, whether those killers use addons or not. If I were to play against an average purple survivor rank team I would win every single game with any killer. But, when you start facing the really good survivors, you have to play optimally. They are playing optimally. They are doing those gens as fast as they can. Why should you, as a basekit killer, be able to keep up with players of equal skill to you when you aren't playing optimally? Is that really balance to you?
I strongly, strongly believe that when you are at the top ranks of any game, you have to play optimally against the other top players. Not needing to do that as nurse was why nurse was so hated by so many people. And that's why so many people are happy with how nurse is now.
If I was able to perform as well as basekit nurse was able to with my huntress (not using addons) I would be so disappointed with the state of balance. I would welcome a nerf to huntress. I want this game as close to balanced as an asymmetrical game can be (which is why it is frustrating that the obvious biggest issue in the game - the maps - isn't getting as much attention as it should).
Oh, and please stop putting words I absolutely did not say in my mouth.
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@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873512#Comment_873512
So you hope the Devs promote bad health for the game and lore that are locked behind unbeatable challenges that no one will be able to do? Man, your mind is somewhere else.
You know why the archives was even a thing? BECAUSE PEOPLE WANTED MORE LORE, the lore we had for all the characters and especially the old ones had very little lore or no real backstory to it, but no, they had to bring in battlepass and stupid challenges that promoted bad unhealthy play styles for the game or just near impossible to do. Maybe if the challenges are there forever and they switch every so often but can still get some of the lore and yeah, not mandatory. But since they will be gone when the next Tome comes it is MANDATORY otherwise you get no lore and so you either did nothing for nothing or something for nothing.
I finished all the Tier 2 challenges last week (almost all of them in one day - about 5-6 hours of playtime) and have been waiting for Tier 3. I looked at all the Tier 3 and 4 challenges. None of them seem unbeatable? Sure, a bit grindy, but in no way unbeatable. I wasn't even going hard trying to complete Tier 2 and I finished with plenty of time before Tier 3.
Maybe it's because I am not concerned about the lore at all? I just put on a challenge and if I finish it, nice, if I don't, oh well. Even casual players will be able to finish everything by the end, in my opinion.
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If you don't like the challenges this much, don't do them. They are not mandatory...
I enjoyed the first 2 tiers, and looking at the third tier I feel I will enjoy doing this too. There is still so much time available to finish everything, too. Maybe people just don't like not being able to finish content within an hour of it being released.
I hope the devs continue releasing tomes like this.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870650#Comment_870650
Guess what else doesn't need to bring anything? Survivors and Huntresses. Neither is addon dependent.
Keys and toolboxes should be nerfed/changed. Medkits and flashlights are fine.
Against the best survivors a huntress with no addons is in a lot of trouble.
Against the best survivors a nurse with no addons still had a very good chance to win. Now things are more balanced.
You, as a killer, have to use addons if you want to beat the best players. That is how the game is designed, and it works well as a system to keep things balanced. Every single killer can perform very well with no addons at every rank except against the best players. Needing addons to beat those best players is a good design choice. Nurse being able to bypass all that was not.
Don't even try to tell me an addonless huntress and an addonless nurse were even close to comparable before this nerf. No killer even got close to her power with no addons. Addonless nurse was at the top of the Tier list above every single killer using addons.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870541#Comment_870541
I can't tell which end you are talking out of now. If you think survivors should know what a balanced game looks like then killers better all pack their bags and head out.
Nurse mains wasn't wrong I beg your pardon. The only people the devs didn't listen to or even care about are nurse mains. We are talking about people that played this game since 2016 if they are even still here, spit on. I am one of those people. One of those never used ruin and never tunneled off hook, but guess what? Nurse is now ruin dependent. She's also addon dependent. The cooldown has costed me the game so many times that I'm almost done with Nurse. The devs have made this killer worse than the rest because it is not worth your time invested into it. The stats don't lie, she's the weakest killer across the board and she is no longer a predominate killer in red ranks. On my server and playing some survivor every day at red ranks I've seen her only 2-3 times since the nerf. In every game she lost. But I tell you what I do see mostly and that is huntresses, ghostface, and spirits. The nurse is gone.
You are a huntress main so let me make it so you'll understand. Fix Huntress hitboxes like the devs did one time but 'reverted' it at the 'request' of Huntress mains. Yep, they listened to Huntress mains. Fix the damn hitboxes and don't listen to huntress mains. Give her an addon rework so she can't have extra hatchets, reduce her hatchets to 3 and add more cooldown between throws. Give her some addons for bonus points, and most importantly, give her an addon so she CANNOT THROW HATCHETS but move at normal speed, essentially becoming a m1 killer for 60 secs. Make her Ultra Rare give her 1 extra hatchet but they are much slower so the survivor doesn't feel threatened for you having an extra one. If you don't understand the frustration of nurses now, I can't help you.
Many survivor mains don't know what a balanced game looks like too. Their idea of what a balanced game should be is as important as the average nurse main's idea of balance (as in, not).
Yes, you are going to lose more games now than you did before. That's sort of the point....? She was overperforming because like you just said, she didn't need to use anything, and was still capable of winning. That's horrible balance.
If huntress was overperforming then perhaps those sorts of changes would be welcome. I'm only interested in playing a balanced game, not one where one side demolishes the other due to poor balance decisions, as it was when nurse was left unchecked.
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@Wesu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/870201#Comment_870201
They aren't the only ones who think that Nurse is terrible to play after the patch, they are just the most vocal. I think I have 2 or 3 posts ever, but there are lots of us...
Honestly, if some nurse mains think the changes are bad, it shouldn't really matter? Harsh to say, I know, but in my experience nurse mains tend to have no concept of what a balanced game looks like. After constantly seeing those people say that basekit nurse was fine, it is pretty sweet knowing they were wrong.
The fun those nurse mains are now not having is being had by a much larger group of people AND many people who refused to play nurse because she was so overtuned, who are now playing her (like me). This whole situation is a net positive gain.
To those who aren't having fun: adapt or choose a different killer. Highly doubtful the devs will change anything when nurse is still top of the Tier lists.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869220#Comment_869220
So what happened to the guarantee of yours? All of a sudden no longer mentioning it and ofc you now speak for 99% of the korean server, excuse me, 99+% yeah i totally believe that (NOT). Sorry I have not seen a single freaking person with this amount of arrogance, not a single streamer here would even dare to say such stuff. Imagine coming to a forum stating, yeah i speak for 99+% of server x. 🤣 LuL
Please stop with the stories of your korean streamer, I remember he did an experiment to proof how op nurse was. The funfact was that he only did succeed in it with the most broken addon combinations, not proofing that nurse is broken but delivering proof that the addons were broken which again nurse players agreed upon and thus also welcomed the announced change by bhvr. Funny was also that in the experiment itself, survivors didn't even bring items all the time, a time where instaheals were a thing and all.
Same hilarious stuff that otz claims when he says this swf brought everything at their disposal and you see in the endscreen, a yellow medkit and a yellow toolbox much wow. Kinda strange for people who wanted to v him.
Mind to explain that leatherface yamoaka? Literally have no idea what you talk about.
Character assassination what? Maybe you shouldn't tell obvious lies so we can actually believe you? Sorry i didn't write a story about survivors playing perfect making no mistakes and yet chases end super quick! ez pz 4k. 🤣 Like how did you believe that this story made any sense?
Like try to stick to the truth for once, I literally said the percentages of 4 people not a single was 100% yet you ofc make it to always. See why I do not see you as credible person when you knowingly change statements of me posted a page before of this? When you make claims, stuff that you can not back up in any kind or way.
Like I already said, it has nothing to do with weakness of nurse, it is about fun. I know you love staring at the ground or watching people run away others do not. Maybe change your attitude and not try to throw around your insults about skill instead try to understand what people wrote.
Why are you so fixated on this 'guarantee'? The fact is, the only people who seem to care at all about the nurse changes are the same 6 or 7 nicknames posting about nurse every single day, and the nurse mains, with everyone else either not caring or being happy about the changes. There, guarantee fulfilled. Happy? Even here in this thread it is all the same people. Where is the outrage for poor, little old nurse? Stop sitting in your echo chamber and read what most people said when the nurse changes came. Now, people are tired of seeing this same topic come up again and again. The devs are probably regretting creating such a monster with nurse in the first place, because of how fixated you people are on keeping her overpowered. (Are you going to say I'm speaking for the devs now? Haha)
Arrogant? Stating facts is now arrogance? Yikes. There is a difference between conveying truth based on what you have witnessed and 'speaking for a whole server'. You really need to stop jumping to incredibly incorrect conclusions...
That streamer never said he was going to go addonless. His goal was to win every match as nurse. In some games he used her strongest addons, in many games he didn't. His intent was to prove that no matter what, nurse would win. His kill percentage at the end of the experiment was something like 98 percent. Despite you lying and claiming he used overpowered addons every game, he didn't, yet he still managed to win handily every single match against red rank survivors (just because you couldn't do what he could do doesn't mean nurse was balanced). The big, bad red rank survivors who can end games in less than 5 minutes. That is why people are content with these nurse changes. Her basekit allowed such domination to be possible. In a multiplayer game, one side should not be able to win so easily. You claim you aren't having fun. I can't speak for the nurses you faced, but over here on this server, nurse players were absolutely dominant. Yes, I can safely say that the vast majority of players are happy with these changes here.
Also, the difference between his nurse and your SWF is he proved he could do that every game, no matter what. Your SWF, if you faced killers who actually used strong addons and played optimally, wouldn't have nearly as much success as you do now. You can't even deny that. And the only way your group would have a chance of beating him was if a map like Haddonfield or Yamaoka came up.
Do you know what a snowball is? The first generator I checked (in the corner of a map with no way to escape without going through me) in that nurse game had 2 people spawn beside each other. If you are aware what nurse is capable of (yes, even now), you would be aware of how fast you can still down 2 people if you time your blinks correctly. 2 people going down in such short time at the beginning of the match easily creates a snowball. Are you sure you've played nurse? I don't even play her and I can tell you this..
Don't even know what you are saying in the second to last paragraph.
Even with as often as you mention your SWF, it is clear you have a nurse main bias. You mention fun, as if expecting to elicit some sort of response from the commenters here. Fun? You mean the thing survivors had when playing against nurses in red ranks 25 percent of their games? A game where you have to wait a very short amount of time at the end of your missed double blink (aim better next time) on a whole is much more fun for everyone involved than the travesty of game balance that we were experiencing with old nurse.
Nurse is still really strong in the right hands. Instead of asking for nurse to be an easy win again, maybe try adapting to the new situation and finding fun that way. Or...don't, and go play spirit. That's what many of the other nurses who couldn't handle the thought of being defeated did.
If you speak with a nasty tone, expect nastiness in return. I've been civil, be thankful for that. Try not to get this thread closed like the last one.
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@Weederick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865017#Comment_865017
What if Matt Walker keeps designing huge maps with infinites and nobody can stop him? I'd assume at some point during the last 3 years the devs have told him what the core problems are, but he doesnt care. He stubbornly keeps making big maps with infinites. Devs, someone tell him to stop. He's piling up crap that you have to fix later. Stop him
Then I'd grow bored of the game much quicker than if they didn't make decent maps, and go to a different game.
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@Endstille This game's population is much bigger than your oh-so-amazing SWF team. That little bubble you've created for yourself, and the hive of nurse mains on these forums are the extent of people unhappy with her changes.
I play on the Korean server. I don't even think I'm exaggerating when I say that something like 99+ percent of players on that server are happy with the nurse changes. It was a generally accepted truth there that nurse was broken. The most popular streamer in Korea only played her once a day because any more would be too hard on the survivors. But his viewers always asked to see nurse to see how broken a killer she was (full addons, no addons, whatever addons, it didn't matter). I've already mentioned his name many times that you've seen. You either haven't watched his nurse play (you can learn a lot) or are ignoring it because you don't want to accept the possibility that maybe it's not everyone else that's wrong, it's you....
The rest of your character assassination attempt was a bit hard to follow so I'll just let it be. Next time link my name correctly though, so I can see you've said something! Wouldn't want to miss such heart-felt words!
If you don't find nurse fun anymore, don't play her. You aren't getting old nurse back. For someone who claims to be so good at this game, always escaping with your tremendous SWF (that tournament game against the leatherface on Yamaoka looked SOOOOOO hard, very well played!!), you sure don’t have a good concept of balance.
Many people think she is weak, when people with any knowledge of this game at the highest level know that she is still either at the same level as spirit or very close.
Really, this whole nurse debate just boils down to 2 points: Is she still strong and capable of victory in any game? Yes.
Is she 'fun'? I never found her fun. She gave easy victories. Now I've started playing her again. So maybe to you she isn't fun anymore, but I'm quite enjoying her now that she isn't so overbearing.
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@Uxoricide it's a comparison. But I understand nurse players don’t like being compared to other killers. Spent so long so far above other killers it must be tough to simply only be tied at the top with spirit now..
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@UncannyLuck said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867897#Comment_867897
"Among the lowest"
She's picked more than nearly half the cast (7 killers are picked less than her at red ranks)
"kill rate is among the lowest"
By a kill every 5 rounds, compared to the average.
By the way you're measuring, even if she had her kill rate at 72% like it previously was it'd still be 'among the lowest' since it'd only be better than 8/17 killers.
Plus her kill rate is definitely lower right now because many people who aren't very well-versed in nurse wanted to try out her changes.
I saw many people just fooling around with her new addons, especially the one that makes you an m1 killer after the first blink hit.
It is guaranteed that her kill rate will be higher the next time stats are released.
But as always, nurse mains want it all about them. Demogorgon has a very low kill rate, but literally no one would argue he is in a bad spot. He is a very good killer, and everyone puts him in high B or A tier. Where is the outcry for the demogorgon, nurse mains? By your metrics, he needs help. Oh, he's fine? I guess picking and choosing which stats you want to discuss isn't a very effective way of talking about a killer's strength...
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It's frustrating seeing the same nurse mains make post after post after post about the nurse changes when I can guarantee the vast majority of people are fine with them.
I played a game with her yesterday at rank 1. 4k on farm map. The only mistake the survivors made was 2 of them spawning next to each other. Nurse can still end chases SUPER fast. She still is very strong. She is just now harder to play. Just adapt. Stop making posts. Practice more instead. Or claim that she is no fun and throw her away because you can't 4k on a whim anymore.
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@ColgateAdvancedWhite said:
Any experienced survivor will know it's either
1. You are being chased, or
2. Do gens
You don't need voice comm to tell you which one of the two you should be doing.
This whole thing feels like the sjw culture that's prevalent in western countries. Things are supposed to be easy for you, if it's not, it's someone elses fault.
Essentially this.
All the people complaining about SWF as if they are some big, bad, unstoppable force are really missing the forest for the trees.
On a balanced map every killer has the potential to win the game against every group of survivors. On a map like Haddonfield or Yamaoka? Not really. That points to the fact that the issue is not SWF, but how bad some (more than some?) of the maps are. I've seen such little talk about this, when it is so obviously the biggest glaring issue in the game.
I have about 2k hours in the game, close to 50/50 in each role. All of my time (except after rank reset) is spent at rank 1 on both sides. When I was first starting out, sure, I thought that some matches were impossible to win from the get-go. But, like, it's just not true. On a decent map, no matter what killer you are, you are always capable of winning. SWF is not the issue. How badly designed some of the maps are is the issue.
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Bad nurses have always been easy to beat. Once you face a good one you'll see what I'm talking about. Watch some of Salgu's nurse games (post-nerf) to see what is still possible as nurse. You'll see all these people bemoaning the nurse nerfs are making a mountain out of a molehill. You don't have to play in a boring way to do well, unless you get a terrible map (Haddonfield, Ormond, etc). But I, a huntress main, don't think getting a bad map means my killer should get a buff.
Last time devs released stats it showed nurse at that percentage played in red ranks. Not bothered to look for it again, though.
I've already mentioned it many times, but SWF strength comes from how bad SO many of the maps are. Maps get fixed, and suddenly there will be no problem. I don't even play in a SWF, but I've played against many, many many, all at rank 1. If the map is decent, you always have a chance as killer.
Yes, actually I did watch all of the depip squad's nurse games. If you haven't, you should. You'll see exactly what I mean.
The emblem system being broken has nothing to do with the state of balance between killer and survivor.
Becoming a truly good survivor is as hard as learning nurse. I've met as many truly, truly good survivors as I have players who have truly learned nurse.
Players really should play both sides equally. Especially on this forum, the killer bias is startling.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/860959#Comment_860959
If nurse is really that op, main her. Because why not? You can basically got free wins every game, and winning is fun, right?
And if you want serious talk, i can tell you that i hate the fact you assume every nurse players that cannot do well now are all potatoes that have no real skill and were relying on broken add-ons. I absolutely hate it. People are happy that those add-ons are gone, but not for her basekit change. So keep your insult.
Want to know the reason why I stopped playing nurse a long time ago? Because she basically gave free wins. I've actually started playing her occasionally, now that the survivors have a chance. It's no fun playing the pOWeR RoLe unless it is a single player game.
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It's actually quite satisfying seeing all the nurse mains scramble to try and convince themselves that what the devs did to the nurse was bad.
I am a 50/50 player (more like 95/5 now, because survivor queues are so terrible), and what I've suspected/known for a long time now is that so many of the nurse players I faced in red ranks before the nurse change were pretty darn boosted. They relied on nurse's extreme power and extreme lack of punishment for missing blinks to do well and stay in a rank they actually shouldn't have been in. Someone said above that nurse was respected and feared..? Not...really....she was despised and often a killer used by people who wanted the 'pOWeR RoLe' (easy wins).
Nurse was the best killer in every facet of the game. Now she actually has drawbacks.
Statistics said that of all red rank killers 20-25 percent of them were nurses before her change. That was absurd, and evident of the problem everyone except nurse mains were painfully aware of. Now it's much less (which is a good thing). Know which other very strong killer is very rarely played? Hag. Know why? Because she is HARD to actually play well. You need a strong understanding of every map, loop, when to chase and when to back off and set traps. If you don't understand how survivors play, you will get wrecked as Hag. Now all those boosted nurse players have given up ("it's not fun anymore!!!), because now her level of difficulty, and reward for playing well are equally balanced. And, like hag, her punishment for failure is high.
Before, if nurse didn't get a map like Haddonfield or Yamaoka, a nurse could dominate full, optimal, skilled SWF teams just due to her amazing chase potential, map presence, and everything that made nurse Nurse. A good nurse player could do this while getting 12 hooks in the game, which is an absolute domination. If the kill average is meant to be 2 kills, 2 escapes (which is a good goal), Nurse was over performing to an absurd degree. A good nurse would ALWAYS beat good solo players - if the nurse player played well enough (regardless of how skilled the survivors were), and absolutely had the advantage over SWF teams (if the map wasn't bad). If anyone mentions the depip squad, it just shows you didn't watch any of the games they played against nurse.
To the people who say nurse is easy to beat now: maybe nurse isn't for you.
To the people who say 'just run straight:' stop spreading misinformation.
To the people who say nurse is no longer fun: now the nurse is deserving of the 'HARD' listed next to the difficulty warning on her character profile. If this small change to her basekit (that left her either equal to, or the 2nd best killer in the game) was enough to change her from super fun to super boring, I don't know what to tell you.
To all the other nurses: yes, learning nurse is difficult, but winning with her was not. She was rewarded far too much for simply using her kit. Like hag, seeing fewer nurses in red ranks will be perfectly fine with me. They are HARD, HARD killers to master, and judging by the people in this thread, something not done by many.. If the nurse knew how to play, the most common outcome was a 12 hook, 4 kill domination. Her potential to do that every single game was broken. She is in a MUCH healthier state now. The reason the devs aren't answering, I assume, is because the complaints they are reading are irrational. No point responding.
Finally, to those of you holding out hope that they will revert these changes: they won't. Get used to it, or play a different killer. I hear hag is strong.
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No need to address a change that was beneficial to the game's health.
Take the advice all you nurse players gave to survivors and adapt your play style.
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I don't slug the 2nd last survivor anymore unless I know exactly where the location of the last survivor is. It's super boring when you are killer and super boring when you are survivor.
Sure, it means sometimes the last survivor escapes through the hatch, but if the game gets to that point it means I've won anyways. It's a much better use of my time to just take the coin flip of the hatch and go to the next game.
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The people in here saying this is fine are probably the same people who abused old legion mechanics. This is so obviously not intended. Probably just an oversight by the devs. Hope they fix it soon.