NullSp3c
NullSp3c
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@ThePetDetective said:
I started playing killer only 1 or 2 months ago. Since then, I've seen a little success with The Trapper, The Cannibal, The Shape, and The Spirit, but I've seen, comparatively, mountains of success with the Legion. I was a hardcore survivor main before this, of maybe 3 or 4 months, so i knew plenty of what survivors typically do during chases/downtime/etc. And since i started playing killer I've maintained a decent 2-3k pretty consistently.
But every now and then, and especially at the start, I'd look up Legion game play, Tips & Tricks, stats, anything to do better as them I'd soak up. Nearly every piece of advice or strategy about legion is filled with talk about how much worse they are now, how they used to be way more fun, etc. And I just don't get it.
In the old Legion, before the rework, you got rewarded for abusing game mechanics in ways the Devs didn't intend for. But assuming you played how they did intend, Legion basically took away survivors only tools of escape. The speed debuff wasn't really helpful, because if you found someone, they were going to go down. You also had a pseudo-Mad Grit effect when in frenzy, rewarding button mashing as opposed to decently timed hits. It was almost brainless in a way, and this isn't even accounting for how easy it was IF you abused the game mechanics.
But as they reworked Legion with the 2 big patches and even the coming QOL change, it became more about honing what Legion is good at to get your downs. Legion is the best at spreading injuries, no one is gonna contest that, but now hes better suited at Frenzying for injuries and information, and worse at downing in Frenzy. You can't button mash to get a down, you can't abuse pretty much any mechanics as badly as before if not at all, and what I think is most important, You don't take away a survivors ability to escape.
Now don't be fooled, vaulting has been buffed in Frenzy and you're even faster in and out of it. But as annoying as it is for me, the 4 (3 if those add-ons) second delay is a pretty good balance between your transition from amazing mobility to lethality. It's not like, say, Plague, who gives survivors little to get away. I might even go as far as to say Legion doesn't need this tiny buff they're getting, but it's always nice.
On the other hand, I've only played against the current Legion, but I've never had a problem with it. Their detection is effective, but not uncounterable. Being near a pallet or just accepting the hit to get the massive speed boost and have them be stunned if they want to down you is pretty good, and fun, to escape from. Their speed is great, but again, having massive speed but no way to down someone without a hefty price is a fair trade. As I'm sure we all know the deep wound timer is only efficient for Legion to down you if you're being tunneled anyway, which gives everyone else time to do gens and such.
But OLD Legion was, in my opinion, rightfully hated. A survivor could do nearly nothing if they were stabbed, the cool down was faster, the charge up was faster, it was easily exploitable, and the only honest counter was landing a pallet stun before you were hit. I have yet to see anyone say, without being the one who's playing Legion, that they were anything more than annoying to play.
Finally the point of the title is the attitude towards Legion. Old Legion gets a lot of well-deserved hate because of how poorly implemented their frenzy was, but all there is nowadays is pining for it from old Legion mains, who more often than not phrase it something like "It was broken, sure, but it was fun, so why couldn't we keep it?" And New Legion pretty much is only universally hated, Old mains hate how it's not as fun as the broken Legion, survivors (particularly the less game-sense heavy ones) say how boring of a killer it is, and people who don't play them/main other characters always talk about how weak they are while providing flimsy reasons, if any at all.
What are you're guys' thoughts, though? I'd hate to sound like I know best or whatever, and I am interested to what the community thinks. Keep in mind everything here is assuming both sides of decent skill and Meta/Pretty good perks.
TL;DR: Old Legion rewarded mindless gameplay and exploits, and didn't give survivors anything to work with. Current Legion rewards well timed attacks, careful use of information, and gave both survivors the tools to escape and the killer to effectively use his power.
I am a legion main since the old one and i am still a legion main.
I hated the legion rework not because legion became mindful and needed skill, but because the rework removed EVERYTHING good about old legion. I played old legion like the new one and being a 4.4m/s killer... if you dont believe me theres nothing i can do to prove you.
Old feral frenzy:
- Fast
- Short
- Lethal
- Agile (you could miss hits on it) - there should be a penalty when you miss a hit, but not the entire bar and a 4 seconds stun
- You could use it everytime (spammable)
New Feral frenzy:
- Kinda slow
- Long duration
- Non lethal by any means
- Missing a hit and hitting someone twice just punishes you and reaaally hard
- 2nd biggest cooldown in the game
Old feral frenzy felt like a short period of time that you would be powerful in there (it needed some kind of counterplay but not a complete change) and when it stopped you would become really bad.
New frenzy gives the survivor a good feeling. Its a bad power when you know that a survivor feels relaxed when you use it.
I do better with the new legion rather than the old one, but the old legion was indeed much fun. It's objectively a fact, because new legion does what the old legion did but with too many restrictions imo.
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@Cheers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1194872#Comment_1194872
I'm glad you went this in depth about Legion and what you think about him, and I would agree he needs a buff of some sort, whether it be a rework or not I don't know, but often I found myself not even using my power because it wasn't good in the situation.
Like you said, there are many things that make 0 sense in his power, and they should probably look at them.
I find the same problem as you do most of the time. Legion before the update was the 2nd killer that you would use your power the most in a single match, and now its the absolute opposite.
I didnt like it :/
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As a legion main that has around 800 hours only on that character and the matches end roughly as yours end (generally 4ks)... This isnt me bragging about my games, this is just to say that my opinion doesnt come out of nowhere.
I, personally, think that legion isnt all that weak, but doesnt go above B tier either. Legion has many things that dont make sense and are loose ends from the 1st legion that we got. Ex: hitting someone with deep wounds does nothing but punishing you for hitting a survivor again.
My general opinion on legion is that the devs only have around 2 choices: either give legion a major quality of life update or completely rework them and get rid of deep wounds simply making their power to be good at chases.
Legion is very badly seen in the community and i completely understand and support it because after all, your chase pontential is just to m1 the survivor and there is no power usage to spice it up (nothing to master there, basically).
Also, i think that the devs picked the most boring part of this killer in the rework for both sides and that is to chain hits.
As much fun as it sounds on paper, the survivors need to mend (holding m1 for 12 seconds) and legion just runs knowing that they cant kill anyone in that state and will have a headache at the end. This isnt fun for both sides.
Loose ends from old legion that i can remember at the moment:
- Hitting someone in deep wounds does nothing. Why?
- Hitting someone out of frenzy drops the power by half. Why?
Things that make no sense to be in his power:
- Not being able to see blood pools. Why?
- Not being able to see deep wound timers. Why?
- Missing a hit ends the power AND drops the gauge. Why?
- The power can only be casted when its full and having a 20 seconds cooldown. Why?
- Hitting someone injured does nothing. Bad design, but justified (needs a rework).
- 70% of their add ons are bad/useless for their rarity
- Franks mixtape: i made some testings and you need around 80 seconds to down someone with your power IF the survivor is right beside you and you can hit them right when the power comes again. Also, this add on promotes very negative gameplay.
- Stab wounds study: As franks mixtape is useless, i consider this add on to be the worst add on in the entire game (even the ones that make your power worse are better because at least give you bonus bloodpoints). Deep wounds is not a threat since the update and isnt a 25 seconds timer instead of 30 that will even slightly change that.
- Fuming mixtape is actually decent (unpopular opinion btw).
- All cooldown add ons: the values are a joke. In my opinion, the fatigue duration with the 2 best cooldown add ons should be base. Need a rework if this change goeas through.
- All add ons that increase the detection range: they make you go after someone you cant catch most of the time. They would be good if they would also increase the movement speed while in frenzy.
- The power has almost no utility besides hitting multiple survivors in close range and giving you a easier hit at chases if the survivor is healthy.
- There are many people that say that it also helps you on map travel and that is WRONG, it hurts you. Without add ons: in frenzy you walk 60.8 meters in 14 seconds (10 duration+4 fatigue) and out of frenzy you walk 64.4 meters in 14 seconds.
- Not being lethal and having the biggest fatigue/stun in the game.
Imo ignoring all survivors defenses is always a bad idea that leads to this, but the devs are fine with it so we can just slowly leave the game as ive been doing or accept it if you want.
Legion needs TONS of QoL updates and slight buffs but, preferably, they need a rework. Because it doesnt matter how many buffs this curret version of feral frenzy gets, the legion wont stop being an m1 killer in the end.
I am fine playing as the legion in a competitive way because i have lot of experience in the game and know how to play on tiles, but anyone that wants different gameplay will never choose a killer that has nothing to offer in a chase. At least, this is what a friend of mine told me after trying legion.
Again, this is not to brag, is just to tell my point of view with max clarity.
Thank you for coming to my TEDx talk.
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I like the list, but i just don't get why the legion has 6/10 in mobility if mobility is "How fast you can travel around the map to patrol gens or close the gap between you and survivors"
Let's do a bit of math:
Legion moves at 4.6 m/s by default
While in fatigue moves at 2.7 m/s
While in feral frenzy moves at 5.2 m/s
Add-on less like your list is made of, the legion's power lasts 10 seconds and the fatigue 4 seconds, so it's 14.
NO POWER -> 4.6*14= 64.4
WITH FERAL FRENZY -> 5.2*10+2.7*4= 52.8
With this, you can conclude that legion only gets profit by using their power for map travel ONLY if they are already in range of hitting a survivor and that is less than 12 meters, which i don't think this is treatened as map travel. For me they get a 1, just because they have potential to chain hits, but mobility in itself i don't think their power helps.
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@Chickenbrains said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1177373#Comment_1177373
Or even opens up new avenues for new players. Imagine if fortnite never made their battle royale mode.
I thought i didn't need to point the obvious, i agree.
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@Almo said:
Multiple game modes necessarily impacts queue time.
But brings in the people that left because the game was stale (that got burned out).
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@AhoyWolf said:
Legion is the only Killer where if you buff them in a way that their power would be actually good it will be broken for the other side.
If you only buff their ability to injure Survivors there would be still the problem with downing the Survivors.
If we want Legion to be viable they need to rework them, since their power was flawed from the start...
This
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@Talmeer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1113130#Comment_1113130
You got it.
It's nice to see a old horse like you being around here :).
Im concerned about the devs position about legion now.
The rework was rushed and killed most of the uniqueness of that killer. It was in may of 2019.
Now, we're at february of 2020 and little to no changes at all were made. The rework was done thinking about a single game style and was rushed, so badly performed.
I really don't see where the devs find legion in an ok place now. Devs had 2 options with the rework: maintain the rushdown style or the boring one (chaining hits), they chose the boring one and now we're at this mess...
Don't get me wrong, i like to chain hits, but not for so damn long. Its much preferable the rushdown style because it is more interactive and is less annoying for the survivors too.
I think that feral frenzy is an ability that fits a 4.4m/s killer that has a short window to perform really well. Change my mind xDDDD
The old game style could be done adding power in some places and removing power in other things. For example (Feral frenzy's movement speed increased from 5.28 to 5.6 but legion cannot vault pallets) something like this (the numbers are purely representative).
It's always cool to know that im not the only one that didn't forget how fun it was to play old legion (in a non-exploitive way ofc)
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@Talmeer said:
I am not a fan from addon changes.
The old Legion has shown how extrem overpowered they can be.
Some may can remember how short the frenzy time back in the day was. The design was perfect for people that had love to have a short-but very strong-action time window.
FranksMixtape as example had outplay this mechanic and lead to a feeled hour (I'm exaggerating here, I know) of frenzy duration. I as a lover of that short "action window" was extremly bored by this addon for this very reason.
Also the end was, that I can bet, that the existince of the FranksMixtape was one of the biggest reasons, why the rework had happen in the first place. Besides the exploits of course.
Imo, better a solid base kit, as strong addons that later lead again to a rework.*
Edit: *Because we all know what happens if bhvr trys to do a rework on the Legion :|.
Yeah, i agree with you. I love the same type of ability that you described here. The legion's rework had no thinking about us players that loved that game style.
It was lethal, short, fast, frenzying and fluid. None of that happens now.
Lethal: COMPLETELY removed.
Short: It lasts 10 seconds base and it doesnt feel unique.
Fast: The speed got reduced by a drastic amount and made it feel sluggish.
Frenzying: Missing an attack now takes you out. Instead of going all-in, you need to be careful to miss, its not that rushdown that used to happen before. (This is usually misunderstood with broken/counterplay lacking, but you can maintain the short cooldown on missing and make it just drop a portion of the bar, for example).
Fluid: It feels very sluggish to run at a slower speed than before and face a 4 seconds fatigue and then have a 20 second cooldown after that.
Imo, the old legion was in the right direction, but needed a few changes that were, clearly, not the ones that they did.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1100946#Comment_1100946
I need to see those walls before liking the idea, hehehe
True. I'm really excited to see the walls, the new maps and the new killer.
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It's not a band aid if it is a base mechanic to the game. Unlike ruin or bamboozle, it doesnt cost a perk slot (thankfully) to solve a problem in the game mechanics. I love this change.
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I thought you were about to suggest offerings to increase the number of breakable walls in a match, but these seem cool too.
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@Peanits aren't breakable walls going to be problematic just like chained loops because of the big RNG of map spawns?
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1097836#Comment_1097836
I saw the whole thing. The example at the killer shack was their excuse and explantion for the BS hits, but in reallity this was just a wonderful showcase that servers and their whole system is just a total mess.
EDIT: If stuff like this would be the case in games like CS GO, the Pro scene would be dead instantly. Just unplayable.
Dbd was never meant to be a professional game. Also, they explained why dbd is different from other games. In dbd there is always someone running away from another while in the other games the players go towards each other.
The same happens on the other games when someone is running away from another person. They said they are testing and trying to implement a movement prediction mechanic to minorize that gap between pings.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/130233/im-done-with-survivor
Hello
Dont come here and expect any sympathy for those bullshit hits. This is entitled killer world, they dont care. They are way to butthurt because for ruin nerf.
Topic: This happens all the time to me aswell. When you are good at looping you suffer the most, since you know the normal timing and you know this should not be a hit. Dedicated servers are a total mess, everyone knows it, but hardly anybody would admit it, since ... again... entitled killer main world here.
You really need to see the last dev stream. This just shows how people in the forums generate ideas without the tiniest research.
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I really love this post.
EDIT: Legion would be good for tracking if other killers can see killer instincts. Can make a good combo with very lethal killers like hillbilly or nurse.
Leatherface and hillbilly would be really cool together to make survivors not know which chainsaw is which chainsaw.
Hag and trapper are also a good combo. Traps everywhere.
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Thanks for your comments @Raptorrotas @Kagari_Leha @BenZ0
After seeing different points of view, i don't think that this would fit dbd and may even make it more boring.
@Rizzo90 can you please close the discussion?
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@Kagari_Leha said:
Yeah but what about all the unhook/hook mechanics ? what would be the point of Borrowed time, Deliverance, Make Your Choice, Furtive Chase (lol), We'll Make It, Second Wind, Camaraderie, Babysitter, Kindred, Monstrous Shrine, Slippery Meat ?
See the problems created section
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@BenZ0 said:
Brother where have you been? Jokes aside :D
I personally think the hooking gameplay is a very well functional gameplay to slow down gen progress. I agree that camping, tunneling and slugging are boring to play against but same goes too save pallets, genrush, borrowed time, d strike and dead hard. I can give you even more counterpoints if you wish. Killers have boring strategys just like survivors, and you cant denie that every complexe other game has the same problems. But there isnt always a solution for everything, the devs should concentrate on the bigger problems of the game which is early game pressure, map design and killer/perk balances.
I get what you're saying, but this is an issue that will need some fixing at some point in time i think.
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@BenZ0 said:
Sorry to say but that seems very survivor biased, you take out basicly every single pressure and win strategy for killers with this idea.
Thats why i said that with the right balance this would seem a very good idea. I know that this game is already survivor sided, but this is a QoL change that solves a lot of problems.
Hipothetically speaking, if behaviour introduces a secondary objective and makes gen times balanced according to that, would you like this idea?
I think this works like the ruin change was. I think it is the right change but not at the right time.
EDIT: Just to clarify, I'm not survivor biased and i main legion so you can understand where im getting with this, because you're also a legion main.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1067422#Comment_1067422
This is true.
The perk rarity is just a carryover from the old days where a killer/survivor would have one rare perk, one very rare perk, and one ultra rare perk. Eventually ultra rare perks became very rare perks, so now you'll have one rare and two very rares. It's not to signify their strength, since that is very subjective and can vary based on the killer or other perks you're using.
(Myers and Laurie are the oddballs out, having three very rares.)
Hag and Ace are the same, they both have 3 very rares. Any reason why?
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@yobuddd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1065579#Comment_1065579
Honestly, I had originally planned to continue with the hooks, but now that you mention it, a change to that would be really refreshing too, wouldn’t it? If hooks remain, I think adding another sacrifice stage would be fair.
Now here’s a different idea just off the top of my head (and I’m completely open to suggestions).
Let’s say this entire mode is the Entity’s reward to its loyal servants, the killers. They get to kill for joy, rather than to feed the Entity. (Still, you better get them all or the Entity will be really upset that you squandered this reward!)
- No hooks, and no carrying.
- When a survivor is downed, the entity grabs him (EGC style) and drags him underground to a random area of the map, then spits him back up on the surface. This will always be a good distance from the killer, and there will be no indication (from the killer’s view) as to the direction of travel.
- The survivor is still slugged at this point, but will always be able to fully recover.
- Other survivors earn Altruism by healing him (more altruism points than usual to make up for no rescue opportunities).
- This happens 3 times. On the 4th down, the survivor remains on the ground and the killer can mori him.
- This whole setup means no camping (where’d the survivor go?), far less tunneling (same reason), and “slugging” becomes just a part of the game. Furthermore, we get to see a far greater frequency of the awesome mori animations!
- Maybe we still see the timer slow down when survivors are crawling. This gives the others more reason to seek out and heal their teammates. Also gives the killer a way to apply “timer pressure”.
- Kinda nice to see the Entity play a more active role in a game match!
I got a little confused with "The survivor is still slugged at this point, but will always be able to fully recover.", it made me thought that they had unbreakable base kit, but now that i read it again it just means that they are still able to be healed up to injured state.
Yeah, this would be nice and solves a lot of problems in dbd, tunneling and camping are really a players doom if the killer just focus on that. I like that system because it removes those 2 stupid things and makes the entity more interactive in a match.
Now it all depends on the time it takes for a survivor to assemble the pieces of a sundial. If this timer is good, i will prefer this game mode over the current one. Also, most of the aura reading perks would need a rework/nerf and some perks like decisive and borrowed time would need to be completely changed.
But great idea!
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Just clarify how the killer kills the survivors. Is it by putting them on the hook like now? Then if you want games to last roughly 15 minutes then the number of hooks should be increased to 4, but i don't feel that the hook system is very interesting/non-exploitable.
All the other components of this game mode fit very well in the game's theme so i love it. People would actually be scared from the killer and every type of survivor gameplay is accessible.
As some people above said, there is a need to create new maps/rework most of the outdoor maps to fit this gamemode, which would also be refreshing.
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@Kaiser_Emotion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1065285#Comment_1065285
The math should work out to 2 stacks overwhelms the negative.
5% x2 x 4 is -40% total with +35% to just obsession.
The problem with it is that those 40% are scattered between all survivors. I would give it a try IF it didn't affect gen speed that much. Even 10% gen speed and 35% to others is kinda unbalanced.
Only with testing i can tell 100% if i like it or not. But for starters, not with that much gen speed increasing.
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@Kaiser_Emotion said:
You become obsessed with one Survivor.
Your Obsession gains a 35% Action Speed bonus to gen repair speed and unhooking and healing other Survivors.
Each time you hook a Survivor that is not the Obsession and the Obsession is alive, gain a Token and each time you hook the obsession, lose a token.
No matter if the Obsession is alive, all Survivors get a stack-able 3/4/5 % penalty to Repair, Healing, and Sabotage speed for each Token.
You can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
"This isn't a man..." — Dr. Sam Loomis
Its a no from me. 35% gen speed for 2% percent more for stack? That isn't even worth until you have 7 stacks which is a very good scenario and the game would've been ended before that, because the obsession has 35% bonus gen speed.
So, to sum up, this perk makes a survivor have 35% bonus speed in repairing and you need to ignore him for it? It's the same as ignoring a survivor with the quickest toolbox that exists...
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1064449#Comment_1064449
This was a joke lmao
I think the other guy joked too, I mean the Feng grandmother's EX landlord sounds pretty fake
But it can be a good story ahaha
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@Archimedes5000 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1064365#Comment_1064365
Yes. His name will be The Trasher (prototype name: The Smasher). One day when he went to evict Feng's grandmother from her apartment, because she wasnt paying the bills, the Grandmother (who actually was The Hag) ambushed him with a trash can and threw him to the Garbage Truck. Now The Vegneful Trasher Who Was Killed By Fengs Grandmother Who Later Became The Hag, roams in the realm of his possesion, haunting and evicting tenants, smashing and trashing them to death. His weapon is a Smashy Sledgehammer and he wears The Trashcan on his head. His power, The Trashing allows him to destroy walls for some reason.
Or something like this
I am not sure about this, but isnt the hag called "lisa" and she lived in a small village and then got lost in the woods of the swamp. And that has nothing to do with feng min.
I really havent read dbds lore in a while so this is my general idea of the hag's story.
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@brokedownpalace said:
Fatigue should be reduced and the add ons tweaked. Also I don't understand why your visual field needs to be reduced to a pinhole.
I find fun how feral frenzy is the only power that doesnt help the killer in any way shape or form to down a survivor and has the most drawbacks and the 3rd biggest cooldown.
Meanwhile nurse has 1.5 seconds fatigue base.
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@Demogordon_Ramsay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1062610#Comment_1062610
Not me, but judging by this thread, you evidently aren't good at Survivor, so I imagine being better than you wouldn't be a high bar to set.
Bro you were having some great points and we share the same opinion of what this game should be and was intended to be in the first place.
I even thought "wow! Finally someone who can see what this game was intended to be and wants to speak for it".
But then you ruined it when you started to personally attack a person when you both were having a very enjoyable discussion. Just why?
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@fcc2014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1061892#Comment_1061892
I watched it, after you let me know who the person is. It was a very high pressure game with survivors highly coordinated, doing gens right in his face and trying to set up Head on stuns to save teammates who were in chase. They got 4 gens done and he got 3 kills.
Yeah, but he is also one of the better and knowledgeable players in dbd playing the better killer in the game atm imo. This shows a lot. Survivors didn't even bring 4 toolboxes and went too greedy for head on stuns that costed them a few hits.
He also made little to no mistake and if BHVR wants to make this a regular game in dbd i'll maintain this game uninstalled for sure.
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@Hopesfall said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054698#Comment_1054698
it was because you could get the achievement quicker by hitting people with borrowed time, not ones hit by frenzy
@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1054680#Comment_1054680
Well, I couldn't tell you then. Maybe it has something to do with the mechanics of Killer Instinct. All I know is that the achievement was changed, and that was the reason given for the change, that it was no longer possible after the update. Maybe a developer or someone who plays Legion can explain to you in more detail why the change was made.
Is this a good reason for sony and microsoft to change it? They seem to really care about achievements. It doesn't seem a strong enough reason.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1053535#Comment_1053535
Right. That one was changed because the changes to the character made it impossible, since you can't down survivors while using Legion's power anymore. As I said, they only allow the trophies to be changed if they're no longer mechanically possible to do.
You can do it with franks mixtape, like you can only do the evil incarnate achievement with judiths tombstone.
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That's why I uninstalled the game until it gets a fix.
I have been feeling like that since june/july because that's when i started to understand the game enough to have a general opinion about it.
But i unisntalled with the ruin nerf. Not because i needed ruin (i almost never used it) but because of the mentality of the devs behind the changes. I don't agree with it.
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@Doomsaki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1049475#Comment_1049475
Maybe the first non-basement hook used could turn into a shrine by the entity once the survivor is rescued. Then it becomes a gateway to traverse the map or hook survivors in the basement.
Sure, i guess. Everything that brings a condition for the portal to spawn is good. Whatever gives it a good consistency ia good imo.
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I love all the other ideas except the fact that Montrous Shrine spawns a random portal anywhere on the map because that portal must be very important for the killer and shouldn't be dependant on RNG.
And I think that the duration of Knock Out's broken effect should be increased to 20/30/40 seconds, because it has some potential like that.
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@AStupidDavid said:
So you're telling us that a perk that usually got cleansed in the first minute of the match is the reason you no longer win any killer games? I'm sorry it's just hard to believe buddy, I do suggest you use corrupt intervention though that perk is so much better than both old ruin and new ruin
So you didn't read what i said.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029390#Comment_1029390
why can't you have fun if a game lasts 5-6 minutes? I can understand why it wouldn't be fun for a survivor, but a killer plays differently.
Why do you consider fun to get 4 stacks of BBQ? Just because of the bloodpoints?
Can you please tell us what is fun for you? It's a serious question, everyone has a different definition.
My definition of fun is just have interactions with the survivors and get a lot of bloodpoints each match. Also, being able to win sometimes (2 FAIR kills+) without sweating is also good.
Now compare it to what my experience (and of many people in the forums) is.
Games that last 5-6 minutes (very short time to being able to interact and being able to chill and just play relaxed).
Even if I sweat, survivors are able to escape using the way that i said and i can't get many bloodpoints and interact with them. Most of what i do is break pallets and see people run from tile to tile.
There's no room to play more casually as killer and get some bloodpoints. No one can have fun with strictly losing.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029397#Comment_1029397
You end up exhausting the important pallets nearest to the gens instead of allowing them to waste your time by chaining pallets together. You'd end up chasing 1 guy off a gen, just for them to use a pallet 10 meters away, then another 20 meters from the gen, then 30... As opposed to going after the guy on the gen who isnt gonna reach the nearest pallet because its too far away from the last safe spot. While theyre healing up, go after their teammates. Alot of times you'll end up in situations with 4 injured survivors who are either gonna go down if they hop on a gen because its a dead zone or theyre gonna use time healing up, allowing you to venture away from the gens.
If doesnt matter if you chase 1 guy who drops every pallet on the map by camping them until you show up, it takes too long and the gens will finish. You HAVE to rotate.
All i want is to have fun, not put 30 thoughts into a single decision. Do survivors have to do that? Hell no!
I want to have my 4 BBQ stacks and more bloodpoints. But this needs time to do it. I want to play to chill but also improve my account AKA win bloodpoints.
But in 6 minutes that i can't hook anyone, how can i get the stacks? It should be easier for a killer to down someone. I'm not even asking to win the game everytime. Occasionally would be a good goal.
What you described is pure sweat and i don't want that. I just want to have a game to have fun.
But something is wrong when if both sides play for fun and 1 side always wins. When both sweat, the depip squad has the advantage and mostly wins. I play at red ranks and cant rank down because rank reset is really bad now and i easily pip with legion and doctor.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029371#Comment_1029371
Thats just it, like I said...10-15 seconds. Get a hit or a pallet and move on. If you get a hit after 2 seconds, unless you think you can get another one right after...move on.
SO the killers job is to hit people and let go. They heal, then repeat. This sounds like A.I. to me ngl.
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@Nobsyde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029320#Comment_1029320
so yeah, here's the thing: if you want to be competitive that's how you gotta play: merciless. If you don't find it fun, then you should play with a more casual approach, or in other words do what you like.
Maybe you like to chase, maybe you like to jump scare, to snipe with huntress, to deep wound 4+ survivors per feral frenzy... whatever it is, do that. But if what you find fun is to 3-4K then we are back to the start: you have to play with a merciless mindset.
You can't have both, or at least, you can't have both in DbD. You can in Civ 5 though.
I also said that i can't have fun if the games can be ended in 5-6 minutes and all im doing is running after someone that simply drops pallets and vaults to another tile.
I play legion and doctor at red ranks and i can't leave the ranks because i pip up and get few bloodpoints at the same time.
A win for me is to have fun with a good amount of bloodpoints (basically BBQ 4 stacks and some more bloodpoints in the middle). I can't do that because when the map becomes a giant dead zone and i can actually go and down people, the gens are already done.
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@GHOSTfaceP3 said:
Bubba basement that’s all I gotta say
I really need to level him up to get that sweet insidious that is the worstly designed perk of this game imo. It promotes the most toxicity overall.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029333#Comment_1029333
How long are these chases?
It depends. If i see that the survivor has a good map knowledge I make them drop a pallet or 2 and i go to the gens again. If not, I make the survivor drop safe pallets for around a minute.
I can't give exact chase times, it's not even realistic count that, but under a minute I can assure you that it is.
Either way, the correct answers are not being answered. The good question would be: "How many gens can be done within the first 2 minutes of the game?". Well, sometimes, there is the possibility to do 3. But technically, there can be 4 gens done (but that is 100% unrealistic).
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@Talmeer said:
I aggree with Nullspec in parts.
It is unbelievable that they have since may not found the time to make the Legion fun again, without those stupid stuns.
And I don't want to start here with the fact that nobody had ask for such a update as it had hit the Legion on may.
Sure, the people wanted to have the exploits fixed and many liked to see the op addons go, including me, but that was it.
And well... My parents have teach me... "If you break something, it is your task to make it fine again, soon as possible." That is all I can say to that.
What the pallets matters...
Really the best you can get is a survivor who drops the pallets infront of you. I would even chase after him, without killing him, just so that he drops every pallet in a specific area of a map, besides hawkings.
There are so many pallets that this tactic doesn't work, because then you wasting the whole match just breaking pallets. Luckily the most of them are unsafe.
Also the gens going down to fast imo.
Those are my points.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029314#Comment_1029314
Like I said though, dont chase 1 person who is tossing the pallets. They will chain them together and end up getting use out of pallets all across the map. Get 1, then rotate to someone else. This will create dead zones. You dont need the entire map to be a dead zone.
Didn't you read what i've written? I give up on chases to pressure gens and only break the very safe pallets. But there are so many pallets, so many giant maps, and so little time when 2 gens get done between the 1st and 2nd chases that it becomes almost impossible to kill 2-4 people.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that there are many chained tiles.
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@TKTK said:
Slug, tunnel and camp when the opportunity arises is what i get out to that. I do agree majority of maps are pretty trash with how tiles can connect to other strong structures, god loops being in the game for years and too many safe unmindgameable pallet loops. Just don't play nice is all i can say, if you are clown or one of the killers that lack map pressure or way to one shot you may be SoL unless you find some weak links to exploit.
Yeah, I did that in some games but i started to feel bad about it and i wasn't having fun. I want to have fun, but there is no time for it in match that lasts 5 minutes.
So i switched to survivor and started doing what i described and yeah, i can do what i want, basically. I'm a very bad looper so thanks that this is possible.
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@LordGlint said:
If theyre constantly dropping pallets, your making progress. You dont have to chase 1 person the entire game as they deplete the map's pallets themselves, but if you can chase someone and manage to get either a hit or a pallet within 10-15 seconds... thats all you need. Turn and pressure a gen after that. Eventually survivors will find all the pallets around those gens have already been broken and they'll be taking hits in dead zones. New ruin is actually helpful for this playstyle since your constantly chasing survivors off of gens before they can make any REAL progress, and the gen regresses back to nothing by the time they get back. Did this with Legion and Myers last night to really great success.
The problem is that by the time most of the pallets are broken, the game ended.
It's correct that i'm making progress, but it's correct that the game will end very soon.
It's very rare in my games that someone leaves the gen and then i chase that person and someone comes to that gen when i get away to try and hit a person. I was also using ruin on the games that i started thinking about this. It's a hex perk and is easily taken out of the game.
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@Unicorn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029192#Comment_1029192
I'm not a Killer main, but if I was I'd be happy that they're looking into gen times. If sacrificing ONE perk is the cost of that then so be it. It'll benefit Killers in the long run.
I'm not saying that it is bad in the long term. In fact, I defended that it needed a change, but not now.
I think that they should make PTB as League Of Legends had the PBE a few years ago. It should be restricted to trusteable people. Not fogwhisperers, but a "category" under that one. So they know that the data that they get from there will be a good and fair one.
After that:
They should test gen times internally without ruin with the team that they have for testing and come up with something good.
Then it gets released to the PTB and see if the changes are good or not. If they are, then it is cool to launch them to live. If not, then don't rework ruin before actually getting the stats.
This is how i would do it.
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@EZ5k said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029192#Comment_1029192
If you check their QnA it's also incredibly obvious that they're plugging their ears and aren't actually weighing their actions
Honestly, i think that they said some good things there.
But their biggest problem is that they take too much to do stuff. Legion is still,imo, the worst killer in the game and i have around 800 hours on them. I can easily have a better match as doctor with only 2 perks and 0 add-ons than Legion with a full set of stuff (excluding moris). THEY GOT "REWORKED" IN MAY OF 2019.
I really don't understand how can't anyone at bhvr see that Feral Frenzy has too many drawbacks for its little use.
They do some nice changes sometimes (ex: freddy's rework and some of the spirit's changes) but they also are not ambitious and can correct their mistakes.
The biggest example is the nurse rework. They were ambitious and changed her base power that no one asked to. Most of nurse's mains and good players (the people that understand the game) said that it was too bad of a change. And they refuse to listen because they don't see it as a mistake. Only few months from now on they will notice that it was a bad change.
They are too scared to risk some changes BUT need to revert them as soon as possible if they are receiving a bad feedback after being tested. I don't understand why... so many good things can be done if tested with the community but they dont seem to see that too.
What if they do some changes to gen times in the near future? If they have a really bad feedback, then they get reverted. If not, then GREAT.
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@Waffleyumboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1029207#Comment_1029207
Or if you're a brainlet just wait until BL 1 lmao. It's funny when they back noed which literally impacts the game no matter what survivors do but when it comes to BT and DS: "It's braindead invincibility smh please rework"
It's funny when they back noed which literally impacts the game no matter what survivors do
You just need to do bones vs a killer that had 3 perks all game...
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@Waffleyumboy said:
I think you're exaggerating the system and overlooking its nuance.
Then explain to me how i can do it as a survivor and it simply works really well.
Go play some games on wreckers yard, blood lodge, mothers dwelling, basically, giant maps doing that and you will see what i'm talking about.
I think that you are not seeing the problem.