NullSp3c
NullSp3c
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@[Deleted User] said:
It happens only on the new reworked maps.
Things like:
- Blood, even with Bloodhoud is barely visible. With bloodhoud it only makes large darker pools of blood on a dark map... they don't glow either...
- Scratch marks, thank you grass.
- Killer Instinct
- Red Light from killer
Are barely visible on these maps, there might be more but that's all i think of atm. If they increase the general brightness it will be super bright on other maps. These issues are map specific and only happen on the reworked maps.
It happened to me in Blood Lodge, it's not only on reworked maps.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
Nurse-Midwich
2 survivors die, perkless, very weak. Through the whole match I only find a good kate. 1 gen left
Slug Kate 1 time. nothing for 1 minute. Then she gets picked up, then gets away somehow, and so I go to protect gens. Nothing, all regressed.
Slug her another time. Nothing for 2+ minutes straight, meanwhile I try to find the closed hatch but i can't, until she's near to bleed out.
At that point I didn't want her to die and the other survivor who plays super safe doing nothing getting the hatch. So i pick her up, let her wiggle out, and she goes straight to a Zarina hiding a the locker near the hatch. I Down her, hook her, joke with kate in the meanwhile, I give her the hatch as a reward for being good. Then Zarina reports me, but the match theorically was already won for me, so is this bannable? Because Kate dying or bleeding out would have meant 3 kills total, which is a still a win for me.
Edit: a win following Dbd's win condition, indicated in the game tutorials, which is sacrificing survivors to the entity or killing them
A friend of mine got banned because of EXACTLY the same reason. I don't find it a reason to be banned, the difference between you both might be that he was on the black list due to past dids. Either way, i think it wasn't deserved so i hope you will be fine.
I'm not trying to scare you, just saying what happened.
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@APoipleTurtle said:
1): In Feral Frenzy, Legion loses access to their lunge (charged attack). This is because it's a special attack, and those do not have lunges. It's annoying to get kicked out of Frenzy due to a miss (especially when Aim Dressing appeared to contribute), but otherwise survivors wouldn't really be able to try and juke the ability (before their rework, Legion could just spam Frenzy attacks with no cooldown between swings).
2): You do want to respect pallets unless you're playing against a survivor who uses that as bait (ie, they pause and continue looping instead of dropping the pallet). If they drop it early, you can vault it and hit them. If you have to take the stun to force the pallet down, well that's one less pallet. I haven't tried it in a while, but Legion also might be able to use Enduring to purposely take pallet stuns and exit Frenzy significantly faster (I'm not sure if this still works or if the Devs adjusted it for Legion). Taking the stun can be helpful if Frenzy is about to run out (pallet stuns are shorter than Frenzy Fatigue), but otherwise you are potentially throwing away your entire power meter.
3): Legion cannot see scratch marks while in Feral Frenzy. It's not a bug, it's just how their power works. This is why Frenzy is exclusively a chase ability and not a mobility power. You need to maintain line-of-sight as much as possible, and make predictions about where survivors have gone if they can break it. Scratch marks should return the second you enter Fatigue after Frenzy ends, but they don't always come back that fast.
Basically, you want to exert pressure on the survivors by constantly injuring them and then interrupting their heals. Use Frenzy to inflict Deep Wounds on one survivor and then see if Killer Instinct reveals any other nearby players. If possible, wound them too, but return towards where the first survivor was when Frenzy starts running out; you can often start a chase with an injured survivor who may have just finished mending in a bad spot (and wasn't expecting to see Legion back so soon).
Otherwise it's all about understanding how to just run basic chases well to secure a few downs and choosing when to abandon chase to pressure other players off of gens more effectively.
Legion's not top of the crop by any means and can struggle against coordinated survivor groups, but they aren't exactly worthless either. Legion also has the distinction of being the best Bloodpoint Generator in the game (it is pretty easy for them to max out most BP categories in a match).
Legion CAN lunge while in frenzy and has a HUGE one because it scales with movement speed. I use it a lot to reach people that are about to vault.
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I don't know if anyone else mentioned this in the thread, but they said that you needed to play 10 games for the mmr to settle IF you didn't play while it was getting stats in the background, which means that it is only the case for people that didn't play 10 games in the past few months.
But i still agree that the matchmaking is very messed up.
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So these are the killers/add-ons that i think are missing there. I don't have pyramid head on the list because i haven't played with him enough to have an opinion. Also, i'm pretty confident with numbering the legion's useless add-ons but there is a chance that i might misjudge the other killer's add-ons that i mention. If you find them reasonable you can put them there. I like this thread tho :)
LEGION
-Stab wounds study: reduces by 5 seconds a 30 second timer that can be infinite because the survivors can run or mend so it stops.
-Frank's mixtape: by the time that you down someone with this the game is already over.
-Susie's mixtape and never-sleep pills: These add-ons bait you into going after people that you can't reach.
-Defaced smiley pin: this add-on blinds survivors for 60 seconds which doesn't have any use.
-Cooldown add-ons: The numbers on these add-ons should be increased because they make no difference on reducing a 4 second cooldown to the minimum of 3. Also, these add-ons make an even less difference if not stacked.
ONI
-Add-ons that affect blood orb absorption speed: they affect something that doesn't benefict you in a way that matters.
-Rengiro's bloody glove: this add-on only works if you don't use your power (which is the main reason to play a killer) and in very few maps with a very specific build.
-Iridescent family crest: this add-on is useless because it requires for you to fail and the range is too small for it to have any meaningful impact. By that distance you can see the survivors in most cases.
FREDDY
-The block set: these add-ons are very useless because they apply a useless status effect in specific scenarios.
THE HAG
-Waterlogged shoe: this add-on removes the ability to teleport around the map in exchange for +0.1m/s, becoming a 4.5m/s killer. Its a very bad add-on outside of a very specific build that relies on the survivors being kinda dumb.
-Disfigured ear: cool concept, but only works on newer survivors.
DEMOGORGON
-Every add-on that affects portals except red moss and the ones that increase the range of being detected by "of the abyss". Portals are a very niche tool to use.
DEATHSLINGER
-Iridescent coin: you need to have a very good aim and need to hit a survivor in a 3 meter space (from 15 to 18 meters) just to expose them.
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I would argue with some other changes, but my concerns with them are very subjective.
But let's talk about moris - what do you think of these changes:
- Cypress Mori: Becomes base-kit, there is no need to use an offering to kill the last survivor because he WILL die if he enters the "dying state".
- Ivory Mori: You can kill a survivor, that has already been hooked, by your own hand AFTER you've hooked 2 different survivors.
- Ebony Mori: You can kill all survivors by your own hand AFTER you've hooked all 4 survivors. (Basically when you have all 4 tokens of bbq&chilli). This forces the killer to go after everyone in exchange for a quicker death, which prevents tunnel and the offering is like a quest for power... i feel like it's interesting this way.
I feel like these changes would improve the health of the game and still maintain the power of the moris. Now the killer has to work for them.
EDIT: Spirit could be fixed by having an animation when she starts phasing, instead of what you propose.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1447811#Comment_1447811
Clearly not as if you can see from the picture.
It could be a bug, but apparently the dbd wiki and my experience are wrong here :/
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@Peanits said:
Offerings actually aren't a guarantee that you'll be sent to that map, they just significantly increase your chances of being sent there. You could get unlucky and be sent somewhere else by design.
Aren't they a guarantee if there is only one in play?
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@IIITweedleIII said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1441391#Comment_1441391
But the thing is. This is a game. Hell, Legion would be the least of any worries if realism was involved. One single whack from Trapper to the back of the head with his machete would already instantly kill these survivors. Billy/Cannibal even faster and way more gruesome because of a Chainsaw rips and shreds through flesh.
It's the fun of the hunt that this game is about. For killers anyways.
I'm not ever going to claim being the voice of the people (with murderous intent) but for me, Legion is as deadly as it gets without needing to go feral. Feral Frenzy all it does is give Legion a pain (where, I won't say) just for wanting to continually stab everyone. Legion wants to repeatedly stab. (lore wise) Legion isn't allowed. Because it's the thrill of hunting that is the point of these trials. That and it's just a game. That's Why....
Hell reasons I like Legion is simple. Reminds me of back in the day a game called Manhunt by Rockstar.
It gets too far from reality when hitting someone does absolutely nothing in a game where hitting someone is the key to win. It even goes against the "consistency" that the devs talk about when turning ability hits into non-basic attacks.
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As a legion main, i think that they need a rework. Legion has no chase potential and his identity was completely destroyed with the update last year.
There's no way that you can make his power lethal while chaining hits by changing the way this one works, its simply not possible. Either too op or too bad, or balanced and has very poor QoL. Like... who doesn't love a 4 seconds fatigue that basically blinds you and then follow with a simple m1 attack?
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Pallet Legion:
Pop goes the weasel, enduring, spirit fury and blood echo.
Add-ons: Iridescent button and stolen sketch book.
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@xI_Fabi_Ix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1364484#Comment_1364484
I'm pretty sure he's just from windows store since you can't hack on the consoles
I don't understand hacking related things, so yeah.
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@Mandy said:
If you are having problems with the video the easiest way is to upload to YouTube (you can keep it private if you wish) and put the link on the form. That does get looked at.
Ok thanks. I'm dumb sometimes and completely forgot that.
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@Mandy said:
Using the Support form is the only way you can provide video evidence - we do not take personal reports from people I'm afraid, you can put their name into the area where it says "gamertag" - that will provide the information required for Windows Store users.
I decided to do that instead of sending the ip when i sent it. I'm having problems in sending the video but it's a matte of discussion to who will answer me.
Either way, thanks!
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@[Deleted User] said:
Submit a support ticket here with the video evidence linked/posted somewhere:
I cant report him. He plays on a different platform and there is no way that i can get his ID that is mandatory. I play on steam, he may play on the windows store or he could hack from playstation... who knows?
I would love an answer from you guys.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Submit a support ticket here with the video evidence linked/posted somewhere:
Thank you for the help :)
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363744#Comment_1363744
Dude, I could literally copy and paste my last answer to you that you tried to refute.
Let me take one WILD GUESS what constitutes a 'good' change in your eyes......
You dont need to take a wild guess, the matter of discussion was that they dont need to revert everything.
Its useless to argue with you. I am the one picking my words... sure, bro.
You're turning the conversation around and telling me that i did what you did. Ill stop answering you because we're getting off topic with your logic.
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363718#Comment_1363718
I can tell.
They've made decisions based off the metric that creates the stats that I perceive as 'good' so we should hold onto them. However, when I perceive something as 'bad' were allowed to say its all vague and shouldn't hold onto it.
It's the perfect crime.
If they end up doing good changes here and there even if their philosophy is wrong, they shouldn't revert THOSE changes.
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363718#Comment_1363718
I can tell.
They've made decisions based off the metric that creates the stats that I perceive as 'good' so we should hold onto them. However, when I perceive something as 'bad' were allowed to say its all vague and shouldn't hold onto it.
It's the perfect crime.
You were the one saying that they should revert everything. I'm saying that they shouldn't revert everything and that is the flaw of your logic.
A thing that i think they should revert is the legion update, not everything. Stop putting words in my mouth.
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363694#Comment_1363694
Did you know?: Devs said you shouldnt take any conclusion for such vague stats. Which i agree because they are indeed very vague.
Either their sticking to their metric or not. Make up your mind.
"Either their sticking to their metric or not. Make up your mind." ? Where is this coming from?
Almo was the one that said that their stats showed that legion is right in the middle. But they said before that we shouldn't take the stats into account. I'm really confused with it still.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Legion was changed from a bad Killer with an addon that made him busted, to a bad Killer with no busted addons.
Do remember that. He was bad before the update and was still bad after the update.
Forgot to say: The problem is that legion has been like this for over a year and people who like the game style need to keep playing like this and the devs still think that legion is fine, so they disagree with all of us. I can't understand it.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362529#Comment_1362529
Actually you guys are the ones that insist on calling it a rework. The devs didn't call it one. The update was even called the "The Legion Update"
Contrast Freddy, which actually WAS called a rework.
That is true. They should rework them or update them in a way to make his power lethal and give him chaining hits potential.
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@Yukihere said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363637#Comment_1363637
That's good to know.
So since the metric of 2 escapes, 2 kills had been used to ever increase buffs to killers and nerfs to survivors, can we just undo that now?
I can't wait for the return of infinites, and I'm not talking the pseudo-infinites bad killers hold onto when they get owned.
No one reverts changes just because they changed their philosophy if they are good changes. Infinites are braindead like old legion.
By your logic the past year should be undone which makes no sense at all. 2 kills 2 escapes is a good metric but only when looking at a case by case scenario not by stats that depend on all ranks and maps. When matchmaking is finally fixed, they should see the high tier playerbase and see their games. And of course those changes should always take in account other levels of play, but the main focus should be to fix the issues of high level play.
Even tho this is a fun game, to make it fun you must remove the element of frustration of a character/mechanic and that is the 4 second cooldown power that isn't lethal, missing a hit, being a m1 killer in the end, etc etc.
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@PayneKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363567#Comment_1363567
I don't think there is the way to rework their power because the legion is just a bunch of teens who can only stab stab and stab everyone , so I don't think there is a way to change their power.I think devs will forget about this killer because they don't want to hear another complaints from community.
I think there is a way.
@NullSp3c said:
Hi! So, I wanted to make a general change to how legion works, maintaining the feral frenzy's objective and power but it will feel much more fun to play as and to play against. It's very similar, but very different at the same time.
I want to clear his already: Deep wounds is in a near-perfect state as it is now because it can't be exploited by both sides.
I'll first make the description of the power and then put the numbers and add-ons that need a change after it. Please note that Frenzy is the power itself (any mention to this applies to both stances), Feral Frenzy is a stance and Bestial Frenzy is another stance. This seems really hard to understand, but it is pretty easier than it looks, specially in-game i think its easier to understand.
So here's the power:
FRENZY
The Legion has a Frenzy power gauge that builds up over time. When tapping the Power button, The Legion goes into Feral Frenzy. While Frenzy is active, the power gauge drains rapidly and the power ends when the gauge is empty, entering in a fatigue state.
When Feral Frenzy is active, The Legion enters a deadly rage:
- The Legion sprints faster than base movement speed.
- The Legion's terror radius is increased.
- The Legion can vault windows faster. Can break pallets, but not vault them.
- Survivors' Scratch Marks and blood pools are hidden from The Legion's view.
- Missing an attack depletes half of The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately.
- Applying Deep Wounds triggers "Killer Instinct", revealing the location of all Survivors who do not have the Deep Wound Status Effect applied and are within The Legion's Terror Radius.
- Hitting a non-healthy Survivor puts the survivor in the dying state, depletes The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately.
- Hitting a healthy Survivor upgrades Feral Frenzy into Beastial Frenzy until the power ends, refills the Legion's entire power gauge and inflicts Deep Wounds to that survivor.
While in Beastial Frenzy:
- The Legion sprints even faster.
- The power gauge lasts longer.
- Survivors' Scratch Marks are hidden from The Legion's view.
- Missed attacks have a reduced cooldown, deplete 25% of the power gauge and no longer end the Frenzy.
- Legion is also able to vault pallets but not to break them.
- Hitting a survivor:
- Applies the Deep Wound Status Effect.
- Injures the Survivor, if they are not already injured.
- Refills The Legion's entire power gauge.
While in Beastial Frenzy, hitting a survivor who is currently afflicted with the Deep Wound Status Effect:
- Reduces a portion of the survivor's deep wound bleedout timer.
- Depletes The Legion's entire power gauge and ends the power immediately.
NOTE: Hitting a Survivor with a basic attack will deplete the power gauge.
Some notes that aren't in the power description but might be important too
- Manually cancelling the power depletes the power bar (like OG legion).
- Getting hit by a pallet outside of Frenzy does NOT deplete the power gauge.
- Pretty much like now, Frenzy's attacks are NOT basic attacks (so no sinergy with exposed).
- Legion can see auras while Killer Instinct is activated.
Some not so important things that i think that need adjustment for these changes (Ex: Visual clues and QoL changes)
- Add a VFX to make a distinction between Feral Frenzy and Bestial Frenzy. I would suggest to make some kind of wind particles go from the front of Legion to behind (pretty much like in the power icon) when in Beastial Fenzy, to give an idea of bonus speed.
NOW ONTO THE VALUES
Base Killer stats
- 4.4 m/s (110%)
- 24 meter terror radius
POWER STATS/NUMBERS
FRENZY
- The power can only be activated when the power gauge is full.
- Refill time: 15 seconds.
- Terror radius increase: 24 meters --> 32 meters.
- Fatigue Duration: 3 seconds.
Feral Frenzy
- Speed: 5.2 m/s.
- Duration: 7 seconds.
- Vault Duration: 0.9 seconds.
- Breaking pallets: Same speed as normal (stops the draining of the power gauge until the animation finishes).
Bestial Frenzy
- Speed increase: +0.2 m/s (5.4 m/s)
- Duration increase: +3 seconds (10 seconds)
- Vault Duration for windows and pallets: 0.9 seconds.
- Survivor's deep wound timer reduction: 10 seconds (30 second timer).
ADD-ONS
Common add-ons:
- Smiley Face Pin: Slightly decreases the power gauge depletion on successful attacks outside of Frenzy. (10% of the gauge remains).
- Scratched Ruler: Slightly reduces Frenzy Recovery time. Does not stack. (2 seconds).
- Mischief List: Slightly increases Beastial Frenzy's duration. (+1 second).
- Friendship Bracelet:
- Slightly increases the terror radius while in Frenzy. (+4 meters)
- Slightly increases the movement speed of Frenzy. (+0.1 m/s)
Uncommon add-ons:
- Never-Sleep Pills:
- Moderately increases the terror radius while in Frenzy. (+8 meters)
- Slightly increases the movement speed of Frenzy. (+0.1 m/s)
- Mural Sketch: Slightly increases Beastial Frenzy's duration. (+1.5 seconds).
- Julie's Mixtape: Survivors put into deep wounds suffer from the Mangled status effect for 60 seconds.
- Etched Ruler: Moderately reduces Frenzy's Recovery time. Does not stack. (3.5 seconds).
- Defaced Smiley Pin: Moderately decreases the power gauge depletion on successful attacks outside of Frenzy. (20% of the gauge remains).
Rare add-ons:
- The Legion Pin: Considerably decreases the power gauge depletion on successful attacks outside of Frenzy. (30% of the gauge remains).
- Susie's Mixtape:
- Considerably increases the terror radius while in Frenzy. (+16 meters).
- Moderately increases the movement speed of Frenzy. (+0.2 m/s)
- Stolen Sketch Book: Slightly increases Beastial Frenzy's duration. (+2 seconds).
- Nasty Blade: Slightly increases Mending time. (1.5 seconds)
- Joey's MIxtape: Survivors put into deep wounds suffer from the Broken status effect for 60 seconds.
Very Rare add-ons:
- Stab Wounds Study:
- While suffering from deep wounds:
- Survivors' grunts of pain are considerably louder (50% louder than normal).
- Survivors' suffer from the oblivious status effect.
- While suffering from deep wounds:
- Frank's Mixtape: While in Feral Frenzy, missed attacks have a reduced cooldown and only drop 33% of the power gauge. While in Beastial Frenzy missed attacks don't drop the power gauge.
- Filthy Blade: Moderately increases mending time. (2.5 seconds)
- Cold Dirt: Survivors put into deep wounds moderately suffer from the Hindered status effect until fully mended (-0.2m/s) and from the Blindness status effect for 60 seconds.
Ultra Rare add-ons:
- Fuming Mixtape:
- While using Frenzy, the Repair Progression of Generators can be determined by the intensity of their Auras.
- Iridescent Button: During Frenzy:
- Your Terror Radius affects the entire Map.
- Any pallets you vault are immediately broken.
- You break pallets 25% faster while in Feral Frenzy. Does not stack.
CAREFULLY read ALL of the topics above, because some things here sound really overpowered if you don't read everything.
I want to know your opinions on this and if you have any questions, i will answer them. I did a lot of work on this, so i would appreciate constructive feedback.
Have a nice day, everyone!
See this rework that i made. It's very complex at first but then you see that it is simpler.
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@Yukihere said:
TLDR: As of November Legion is up around 65% killrate. We'd like that to be higher -.-
Did you know?: Devs said you shouldnt take any conclusion for such vague stats. Which i agree because they are indeed very vague.
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@PayneKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363405#Comment_1363405
you can't moonwalk as him anymore and he loses his power if he miss, so I think that's fine. Every killer have something that helps you catch a survivor except the legion, even bubba can use his rage attack to catch a survivor. We had a great example of killer without antiloop and slowdown - old freddy. The legion is kinda same, as old freddy it took 5 seconds to send a survivor to the dream state, while you can't hit him but almost every time 1 hit was guaranteed and massive slowdown, with legion you suffer from 4 seconds fatigue after using your power and slowdown is kinda meh nowadays, consider 2 mending addons nerfs and defalt mending speed nerf+can't apply sloppeh in frenzy. Its really hard to balance this killer. But balancing him around "skill" is kinda dumb because legion takes really low skill to use his power and giving him bonuses for hitting like 3-4 survivors in 1 frenzy use is bad because rng, survivors can spawn different from each other and it would be impossible to hit them all, we would have killer a.k.a pig, which based on luck.
I think you got the right idea. Imo Legion is the 2nd or 3rd worse killer in the game and feels very unrewarding playing them. They WILL need to be lethal but not that way.
Making a killer miss a hit isn't the type of mechanic that you should base balance on because there are many factors affecting that: latency, hitboxes, aim dressing, etc etc.
There are other ways to make legion lethal and make them chain hits without having lots of punishment and still being balanced.
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@PayneKiller said:
I think legion should have something in antiloop, maybe even 3 hits to down someone using frenzy like it was before and you can also use your power at any time with 3 seconds fatique and that's all.
That is basically bringing old legion with the same problems that he had but this time it's even worse for the survivors because the power now lasts 4 seconds longer and he is a 4.6 m/s killer. That isn't the way to change them.
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361660#Comment_1361660
I disagree. The plight of Legion is just not that disadvantaged. I literally just played a Legion. They did just fine, despite not being particularly good. I agree - killers sense of pressure in a match is greater, but that's true with all killers and the nature of the killer role vs. survivor role. You can argue you don't like the stats for whatever reason, but the data is what is. Legion does just fine in both the overall data and the red rank specific data. Legion is currently doing just fine. Changing times on any ability is not a QoL change - it's a buff or a nerf...I guess some would also call it "balance". And no, he doesn't need a buff. I agree, I am looking forward to matchmaking coming. If I get one more potato survivor team where half of them score half of what I score in a match, I'm going to start bleeding from the eyes.
The data that they are based on is the same data that they told us not to base on. Which makes sense WHY we shouldn't make assumptions based on that. What doesn't make sense is a dev presenting an argument based on that. The stats dont show anything. Massive community agreement means more than that imo.
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@Irisora said:
It is, but because main survivors cried oceans this is what we got. Probably 90% of the survivors playerbase hate legion. And don't forget the miss attack fatigue... what a joke.. like if Legion was a Nurse Tier to get some fatigue... That change was the most dumb thing they did.
As many people said in the thread, the "rework" was a quickly done and rush with no very complex thought behind it. I thought the rework was good before actually trying it but i was playing for 4 months at that time so yh.
After experiencing the rework, you feel like youre not rewarded for doing anything with the power. You feel like youre rewarded only when you get 3 or 4 hits very quickly and no one has mended yet... but again you get the 4 seconds stun. It feels sluggish.
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@DWolfAlpha said:
I don't mind the 4 second fatigue. It doesn't really hold me up all that bad. The thing that hits me the hardest is the miss penalty.
I, personally, that played Legion for over 800 hours am really getting annoyed by the 4 seconds cooldown. 3 seconds is a lot better and makes almost no difference for the survivors.
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@BenZ0 said:
Agree Imo even 2 seconds wouldn't be too op. Hell why am I still here even? Well... anyway greetings my friend!
You're here because you were passionate about this game and what happened to you was the worse, friend, but no further discussion about that here.
I feel like 2 seconds would be op, 2.5 seconds would be the sweet spot.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361905#Comment_1361905
How many games have you gone into where there is 15 survivors and not just 4? This doesnt say hit survivors 15 times, it says hit 15 survivors.
It says survivors, not different survivors.
You need to hit them 15 times.
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@MB666 said:
if the devs just reduce the fatigue(3.5s or 3s) and change cooldown addons to speed addons would be great.. :)
I agree that the cooldown add ons should be changed if the fatigue is reduced but what i feel like would be better going in the lines of what you're suggesting is giving the speed back to the detection range add ons as a bonus to what it is now. What do you think?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361742#Comment_1361742
From my understanding, the stats don't seem to be out of place, meaning that Legion (performance wise) is doing fine. However, I would like to point out that stats do not paint the full picture. Yes, their performance is fine, but that doesn't mean they're good. Nurse's performance is god awful, yet she is the strongest killer in the game (and my current main). When it comes to Legion, I believe, honestly, the community is right. The Legion is not okay, and needs this particular change to happen in one form or another. Whether that means you reduce your fatigue for every chain hit, or the fatigue is reduced at base... Just like Nurse, the stats are not accurate.
I already said, but maybe you didn't see it so i'm saying it again. Weren't stats like these that were shown in july and the devs told us NOT to make any conclusions based on it? And now they're using it as an argument. I'm really confused.
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@undeadcookie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361742#Comment_1361742
They honestly wouldn't have worded it as "this Killer sits directly in the middle" if they weren't implying that they think Legion is balanced enough for them not to be higher up on the list of priorities. Especially when they specify that it's consistent across all ranks and maps.
Yeah, unfortunately i think you're right :/
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1357176#Comment_1357176
But the average kills show that nurse is the worst killer in the game by far, and that is objectively false. In fact, almost all of the statistics I see getting posted don't take into account the game behind the statistics: for example, hag is extremely powerful, yet suffers the lowest pick rate at high ranks. Freddy, despite being strong, has no right to be higher in both kill and pick rates for either of the aforementioned killers... But, he is an extremely easy and simplistic killer to grasp. Could that have something to do with it?
So perhaps the desire to stick to the average statistics is preventing people from seeing what skews the data. For example, legions ability to strip away a survivors initial health state, in conjunction with compulsive healing, make for an easy game against the bad survivors that are all too common amongst all ranks. Which is shown in the statistics as "legion do good" because the statistics do not take into account the skill of either the killer or the survivors.
I dont expect an answer. But please try to take into account the facts behind the statistics, not just the statistics themselves.
You summed it up perfectly. That's what i've been trying to say but i'm too sleepy xD
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@undeadcookie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361187#Comment_1361187
That given that response, they're most likely not gonna make any changes to Legion, or at least not any time soon.
Or rework them? They can't give information. The phrase is really ambiguous.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361619#Comment_1361619
My original question was concerning why they couldn't divulge more. It just hits a sore spot when they say they have info, but won't share it. So, 'why' can't it be shared. NDA?
Would there be any reason besides a rework or doing absolutely nothing?
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@Rydog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1357176#Comment_1357176
My bigger question is around that philosophy -- why is that as much detail as you can go into on it? I don't mean you specifically, since that's obviously a bigger policy than just one person. But why doesn't Behaviour share those kinds of statistics more freely? It would be interesting!
Like, I've heard you speak of how Self-Care has a high win rate, even in high ranks. Given how dim the view of that perk is here on this forum, I think it would be great to see quantifiable data that changes the overall thinking here, since we don't have the full picture and are just sitting here throwing darts at the wall half the time. I'm sitting here imagining -- what if, say, Wraith had a way higher kill rate than we think? Or what if Decisive Strike has a low win rate or something? This kind of data would be an awesome and fun window into your thinking when you make changes to the game.
The devs released stats a few months ago but then procceeded to say that we SHOULDNT take conclusions from those stats. And now it is confusing that a dev is presenting one as an argument. I don't understand it. 🤔
EDIT: I got intrigued why they cant show any further. I must be missing something...
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@LALYTHIA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361591#Comment_1361591
If it is a balance concern...it doesn't seem like the concern is valid. His kill rate isn't low. And a QoL concern that would advantage his functionality and kill rate is not really QoL as much as a buff to his game play. The fact that the killer's power is challenging to use effectively isn't necessarily a good argument for change. Nurse has always been more difficult to master - that's why Nurse mains are well respected (at least by me).
Making the statement that his kill rate is not abnormally low or below 'balance', while actually showing his kill rate, is not an assumption. It's recounting the facts provided by the people most qualified to provide that information. So, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.
I have yet to see anyone 'prove the opposite' about Legion being so weak and under-powered. If someone actually made one, I might be inclined to change my mind.
The problem is that the nurse is high challenge, high reward. Legion is high challenge mid-low reward because their lethality has been taken away with the update. Stalling and knowing where the survivors are is only good if you can actually down them, otherwise they are useless. Being a m1 killer is a joke with most of the survivors that i get when matchmaking is up, you can feel the difference when the matchmaking is live or not.
Also the kill rate isn't low because they are focusing that on all ranks and all maps. Considering low ranks as a stat is already a flaw imo but how the matchmaking is screwed makes it even worse to track something.
I bet that legion has average kills because of many people like me that get a good amount of sacrifices per game but sweat their balls off like i do. You need to make little to no mistake with legion because using the power is bad for you most of the time. This is facts and no kill ratio can change that.
i believe that taking out that 1 second is more a QoL change than balance because with 3 or 4 seconds fatigue the survivor can run away to safety without a problem. This change just makes it less annoying for the killer to take the fatigue.
The videos that i showed are obvious in showing that even 3 seconds fatigue is more than enough for someone to run.
I just want the matchmaking to come and maybe those very vague stats can change into something that more accurately reflect what me and many other legion players experience.
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@ad19970 said:
I agree, I think the only problem are the Legions addons, that could reduce the cooldown to 2 seconds, which would be extreme. But they could simply reduce the numbers on those addons or just completely change the addons to have a different effect.
I think changing them is the right way, they are already bad enough.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361490#Comment_1361490
Everything is speculation unless hard evidence is shown. Don't want speculation, show numbers that point to A, B, and C. Simply saying something without backing it up is speculation in itself.
Like i did in this post?
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@LALYTHIA said:
I find it odd people talk so disparagingly about Legion when he does just fine. Stats show it. IME as a red rank survivor, Legions do well. 🤷
It is of course a balance concern but its majorly a QoL concern. Getting a 4 second stun for a power that doesn't down survivors no matter what is very bad. The power has so many restrictions and so little room for error or good performance.
The stats that were mentioned in this thread are the same stats that the devs told us to not make assumptions about.
I find it odd people thinking that this is fine even after many people proving the opposite but who am i to judge?
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@sizzl3 said:
You think this is a good build? Also give your fav and or best legion build.
Core:
-bbq
-pop
Mostly used:
-thata
Exchangeable:
-corrupt
I forgot. The new perk: deathbound is good on them on paper, i havent tried it yet tho.
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Instead of corrupt try one of these perks to see if it fits your playstyle:
1- Monitor and abuse
2- Blood echo
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@SkeletalElite said:
I think a cooler change would be to make it to where for each hit you get with frenzy the stun is shorter. -.75 seconds for each hit after the first one
Hit 1 : 4 seconds
Hit 2 : 3.25 second
Hit 3: 2.5 second
Hit 4: 1.75 seconds.
The stun reduction addons can get a change. Cold dirt will be straight -.75 second to stun. The other add on will increase the reduction 1 second per each hit.
So with the add on
Hit 1: 4 seconds
Hit 2: 3 seconds
Hit 3: 2 seconds
Hit 4: 1 second
Once again cold dirt is a flat reduction of the stun by .75.
I also thought about that and why not make it similar but with a lower cooldown?
1 hit and base fatigue: 3 seconds.
2 hits: 2.5 seconds.
3 hits: 2 seconds.
4 hits: 1.5 seconds.
Something like this.
The cooldown add-ons could be reworked into anything useful idk
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@SpiritLover1133 said:
DbD is not supposed to be balanced around vetrean survivors. For new survivors, they need more time to think because they don’t know where pallets spawn or windows. So, people who don’t often play DbD struggle alot against legion.
By that logic every killer is punished because someone else doesn't know how to play the game properly. Also, newer legion players will lose survivors a lot when in the power, will miss a lot of hits and will lose the survivor in the fatigue... even with only 3 seconds. It happens for both sides.
Edit: Those newer survivors will eventually learn those things and finally run to defenses. Even 3 seconds fatigue gives plenty of time for the survivors to run.
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@undeadcookie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1357176#Comment_1357176
So I'm just gonna personally take this as #########-all is gonna be done for Legion
What do you mean by this?
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@Orionbash said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1359434#Comment_1359434
Yeah but with Legion you're often around multiple survivors and there's always someone that stays behind to mend in your face. Pyramid Head is very much a 1 v 1 killer, despite the AoE on the power.
I often dont get survivors that stay close to each other because all you need is to be the most efficient by spreading up.
I believe that legion is better than this killer and that is saying something, but ill wait to see if someone can actually make the killer shine.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1358152#Comment_1358152
Half you said was already a lie. His M2 attack is very decent if you understand how to use it properly.Itts a gauranteed hit even with LOS-Blockers. And it doesnt hurt you more than any other killer power. Also his cages counter nearly all perks survivors can use to defend themselfs when unhooking. Thats still quite broken. ans who cares for his perks, all other killers also just play the same 5-6 perks. But probably you wont acknowledge this at all, cause you lack game sense.
"His M2 attack is very decent if you understand how to use it properly" - tell me what you mean by "using properly"
"Itts a gauranteed hit even with LOS-Blockers."- his power is everything but a guaranteed hit. Its incredibly sluggish, takes time to actually hit the sruvivor, and you can't walk normally and backwards which makes you bump into something and you must cancel it because you cant see anything. Adding to the fact that it is so slow that sometimes you cant catch survivors mid animation.
" Also his cages counter nearly all perks survivors can use to defend themselfs when unhooking." - You can cage the survivors if they step on the trail... the problem is them stepping on it and even then they can just crouch and its like nothing happened.
Its not game sense, its purely trying a killer and analysing each situation.