NullSp3c
NullSp3c
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Just some more math regarding stuff:
Vaulting a window will drain the durration by 0.9 seconds (6*0.15) and also takes 0.9 seconds to do which means each vault reduces the total travel distance by 10 meters.
This means there is a maximum of 4 vaults per frenzy and gives vaulting a meaningful cost without it technically slowing you down.
Breaking a pallet in frenzy is 50% faster than normal but that's again 1.8 seconds of drain, the difference being that unlike with window vaulting (or pallet vaulting with KI) you actually do directly slowdown.
Specifically the survivor will travel 7.2 Meters in that time. If you activate your power first (and thus have the 0.75 stun) it's 10.2 meters which is actually still less than breaking the pallet normally would be.
Vaulting during Killer Instinct is instead a 0.9 total drain since the drain is cut in half. This makes it identical to pre-patch legion, but is balanced by the fact that you can't take advantage of this in order to tunnel someone since you need to have already hit someone without deep wounds in order to get the reduced drain.
These are the motives that made me choose this, of all ideas, the better one BY FAR.
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@The_Trapper said:
For me, it feels like the problem with Legion is his ability, more specifically what it does upon hitting a survivor. I have always viewed it as a way to apply pressure to survivors by forcing them to mend, but it just seems like the time to mend without add-ons is too short to make it worth while.
I like the idea, my only change would be to make the Legion do a short animation with the knife instead of roaring, perhaps throwing it up in the air and catching it with the blade facing downwards.
Why not both? They both seem really cool together and the roaring makes sound so that the m/s buuf to the frenzy doesn't become uncounterable when the survivors are doing a gen and don't know where you are.
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@Riddick said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/567135#Comment_567135
Regardless of the killer being changed, at least these add-ons would make it possible to do some fun builds with him, unlike the current ones.
I agree 100% with what you said but i think it's a short-term solution. The add-ons shouldn't be things that give the killer mechanics that he should have in his base kit.
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It’s common knowledge that the vast majority of Legion’s addons are useless, with the others being underwhelming.
Add-ons need to be changed FOR SURE but i think that would be better after the killer itself got changed.
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@NoMitherNo_Problem i saw your comment on a post about Legion and it seemed like you liked to calculate the distances and stuff. And having in mind that math is really important here, what do you think about this idea?
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@Odimm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/560794#Comment_560794
While the changes are interesting, I too would like to see them fix some of the stuff first before a complete rework. I believe the speed needs to change (while keeping the duration) + the deep wounds timer needs to tick while someone is repairing, even in the terror radius. #fixlegion
In the start I said that these changes would only apply if legion was reverted to his old state and then start from there, which means they will maintain their high movement speed as before and, with the mentioned changes, they will double the duration (that was previously 6 seconds) when you put a survivor in deep wounds(doubles to 12) so it helps you chain your attacks so it is even bigger than now that is 10 seconds.
And the new mechanic with the deep wounds is actually pretty good so the survivors always drop their mend timer and have to mend when away and no exploit is allowed.
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@ReikoMori said:
I remember this from when it was posted. Some of it okay, but for my preferences I don't see it being what I want out of Legion. I think pre patch Legion is the right way to go in general, but remove deep wounds from their kit entirely and transition to a stacking on hit effect. As a status its fine, but Deep Wounds being used for both BT and Legion effectively ruins the point of it as a killer based power. To a degree I feel the same with Killer Instinct. It was a much more consistent and reliable tracking tool till they nerfed Legion and then altered it again when giving it to Ghostface.
The deep wounds effect on legion was made so that legion can't instadown someone by just hitting them once, then run at 5.28 movement speed and simply down them.
I said in the start to remember that this is suppose to be applied if the rework is undone on par with the changes to deep wounds that changed with legion. Having that in mind, legion can see the mend bar and reduce it by attacks. This post makes so that you can't exploit the mend timer.
Killer Instinc is the same, they should revert the change to how it was or to an aura effect like explained above and by being an aura, gives counterplay with perks and lockers.
The power is still good at chases and even better at hitting multiple survivors, increasing his movement speed to maintain his theme of agile and quick.
Is too strong to vault pallets when tunneling someone with the power, that is why you need to enter killer instinct to do so and that actually helps chaining hits.
Also gives mending actual interactiveness.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/560850#Comment_560850
It's 60 charges not 60 seconds.
The exact amount of time is variable. It's between 60 seconds and 20 seconds depending on distance.
I'm fine with addon reworks. Franks actually could effect the minimum charge drain.
Sorry, you actually said it well and I ended by mixing them up nevermind.
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@Nobu I have seen you in a lot of Legion's discussions and I see that you are passionate too for this killer and I want to hear your opinion about these guys' idea.
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No problem, I was really disappointed when it said it was closed, that was why I reposted it.
I just don't agree with the mend timer that is 60 seconds, it is too big imo. The balanced value should be determined by only playing because on paper it seems good but in gameplay you'll see that it is too long.
Either way the post was too old so there are more people now concerned about legion and maybe they will help bringing him back to his fun state.
Imo there should be no cooldown add-ons or Frank's Mixtape with these changes.They would be too strong and hard to balance. Completely reworked would be the right way.
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@AStupidMonkeyy said:
This all seems bad. Maybe someone else likes it but this seems to make him even weaker than he already is.
Did you really read it all in 4 minutes?
The idea is that the Skill Cap is Ginormus to both sides.
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I was scrolling in The Legion category searching for good ideas to put Legion back in it's fun state. Guess what?
Just an explanation behind why I think these changes specifically are what is needed and solves his issues:
STANDARD PLAY:
- Legion now moves at 5.6 MPS during Frenzy (140% up from 132%)
- Frenzy now drains at half speed during Killer Instinct
- Killer Instinct's tracking is now aura and thus is hidden by lockers, generators and distortion.
These changes mean he can reliably get to and injure a group of survivors, if they scatter then his increased speed and duration means he can still catch up to them. Making it aura means hiding is still possible if that is your playstyle, however it would require preparation before hand so it still isn't easy to do.
STANDARD CHASE:
- Killer instinct allows the Legion to cancel Frenzy with 33% less fatigue time (2 seconds instead of 3). This only triggers if Frenzy is canceled manually and not if you hit a survivor with Deep Wounds or let the timer run out.
This change means that Frenzy can be used as a combo starter with the right preparation. You hit them once, get up close and then cancel, unlike right now the stun is much shorter allowing you to actually follow up with this strategy.
COUNTER PLAY:
- Frenzy now has a 0.75 second startup during which time the Legion stops moving and looks straight up while roaring. This can be easily heard by nearby survivors.
- Vaulting a pallet is now only available during Killer Instinct (you can still fast vault windows whenever).
This means you can dive for cover or use pallets to cover your escape in order to break LoS, once broken Frenzy doesn't seen scratchmarks so you will get lots of distance from this if done right
COUNTER-COUNTER PLAY:
- Legion can now preform break actions at 150% during Frenzy
This means that while yes you still have to deal with pallets, you can at least get through them quicker . From there while you can't see the survivor you can absolutely predict them
COUNTER-COUNTER-COUNTER PLAY:
- Deep Wounds now bleeds out depending on distance to the Killer. The farther the faster. This is not effected by terror radius.
- Frenzy must be at least 60% recharged in order to be activated (9 seconds of charge from 0%)
- Stabbing a survivor already in Deep wounds drains 50% of the REMAINING duration rounding up with a minimum of 10 charges removed.
Getting stabbed with Frenzy is not the end of the world. He can't spam it and you can always just keep running in order to get distance giving you more chances to try and juke (which is possible because of the startup and pallet interaction)
COUNTER-COUNTER-COUNTER-COUNTER PLAY:
- Mending now has frequent Skill Checks but takes 5 seconds less by default (10 down from 15)
- Exposed or Injured survivors start with half the charges when put into Deep wounds from frenzy (30 charges instead of 60 normally) this does not stack.
In addition to allowing for more perk combos this means that it is easier to let a survivor go for a bit, and then down them later while they are mending/healing. You let them go using the distance to speed up the drain and then rush over to them once it gets low. If they are injured then it would be very fast to hit them twice, let them go for 5 seconds and then chase after them again.
RECURSION:
- Frenzy now has a 0.75 second startup during which time the Legion stops moving and looks straight up while roaring. This can be easily heard by nearby survivors.
- Vaulting a pallet is now only available during Killer Instinct (you can still fast vault windows whenever).
Now of course this change means that doing so isn't reliable, the roar means the survivors will know when you are coming so you won't be getting a sneak attack in without M1. They can simply avoid you and since it doesn't go down when you are right next to them they can wait until you lose them in order to start mending again.
Hey wait a second? This is already on the list, we have a loop! That means every aspect of him has counterplay INCLUDING THE COUNTERPLAY ITSELF!
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Credit to and for inspiring me with some of these ideas. These changes are all intended to go together:
This, in a million years, is the BEST idea anyone had to solve a problem that the devs were just too lazy to take care of. JUST WOW!
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Is mending considered a healing action now? They said they were going to think of it.
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Is it bannable to farm BP or to have your name something related to it?