NullSp3c
NullSp3c
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- NullSp3c
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Ok perks are done.
I think the last one needs an increase in numbers and a cap. But overall, the perks seem very useful, fun to interact with and balanced.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/680277#Comment_680277
Yes he has the 1.5 second animation with the slowdown.
Attempting to abuse it is the entire point of the downside. The aura when purifying exists so that solos can coordinate it as well.
Do remember thought that this requires really good timing regardless of comms due to needing to start it 10 seconds in advance against a Killer that is catching up to the Survivor in at least 1 meter per second.
As the Killer if you are worried about this you can always desecrate these beforehand, obviously that has it's own downsides and on both sides requires you to find the statues, but that's the strategy behind it.
Maybe behaviour will someday make a wolf killer, it is wanted for a long time. Your idea doesn't leave the werewolf thematic so i guess it should be a pick.
Idk, I sometimes think if behaviour can take someone's idea for a killer and bring it to the game. It would be very nice tho.
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The killer seems good and exciting to play/play against. Brings new mechanics for killer and is interactive for survivors.
I just have a question:
When you are transformed back to human form do you receive the movement speed penalty? If so, it can be abused by survivor friends when you are mid-chase and then someone goes to a prayer statue and purifies himself, making you miss a hit make you not able to catch a survivor on a loop.
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@Sziosis said:
Your entitled to your own opinion, but if you want to hear my point of view...
Old Legion was slightly broken, but honestly needed a bit of a nerf because once a Legion set their eyes on someone, you couldn't stop them from getting them down unless they lose interest. The changes they made were drastic, but it did handle the problem. Saying Legion has no power is underrating their potential. With no prior set up, if Legion finds four people in one area, He can effectively injure them all faster than any other killer. With Killer Instinct active, it also means hiding won't do any good for anyone who hasn't been hit yet. I loved the original idea of Legion, hitting someone multiple times to down them, but the new Legion is how most everyone played them in the first place. Quickly injuring a few people, end Frenzy and down a survivor with a basic attack. Frenzy is a great power if you know how to use it. It may feel underwhelming, but Legion is kind of supposed to emulate what a real person is capable of thus being able to vault pallets like normal survivors.
Saying Legion has no power is undermining what they are capable of, but most importantly, the question you should ask is: Is Legion fun to play with? I think so, but to each their own.
I know it is your opinion that you have your entire right to express but there are a few things that i want to mention as someone who played legion 70% of the 750 hours that i have on this game.
There are so many thing wrong here. Legion was badly designed, not broken (without franks mixtape ofc). He needed a fix, not a nerf. Its buffs mixed with fixing the exploits.
The situation that you described when 4 survivors are in the same place happens once in 30 matches. Even if they are, you are 1 miss or 1 pallet stun away from losing all your little momentum. Ofc, when the 2nd survivor doesn't outrun you like 60% of the time.
"Frenzy is a great power if you know how to use it."
The amount of things that his power can do is so limited that few to almost no skill matters. A good legion knows how to time his power well, but there's nothing more to do that makes you say "I'm a good legion player".
Also, a power that gives you 6 or 7 downsides using it doesn't seem fun. At least i only use him to farm bp now.
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@Peanits said:
I could make a very strong case for Freddy. He went from being one of the weakest killers to one of the strongest recently, with a completely different power and all. He was first released back in 2017.
Not all killers are going to get a rework, that much we can say for sure. A rework would mean giving them a completely new power. If you look at a killer like the Trapper, for example, we wouldn't completely scrap his power and give him a new one. There's a lot of people out there who like the Trapper as is, possibly only wanting small QOL changes. To change him completely would be unnecessary, take a ton of time, and disappoint everyone who's come to like him as is.
With that said though, we are currently reviewing the Nurse's add-ons. We've always revisited older killers and will continue to do so. Unfortunately there's only so much we can do at once. There's a lot on our wishlist, it's just a matter of what we do first.
Thanks for replying,
The major changes i meant were mostly number changes, i was not asking reworks. For example, Leatherface hasn't been buffed, or changed in general, for almost a year.
Some number tweaks or a new mechanic that helps him idk, something.
Even tho the killer that needs changes the most is legion imo.
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Legion, to farm bloodpoints.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Pig got nerfed again by making her ambush attack not work with any perks, like NOED, Haunted Grounds, Remember Me, etc.
They did buff her crouch to be a little bit faster to crouch/uncrouch, though (again).
Don't remember the exact date, but definitely hasn't been six months since that change.
Yeah, you're right, forgot about those. But major changes to bring kilers from low tier to mid-top tier haven't been in a while.
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@artist said:
the huntress lullaby was made non directional not too long ago
That was on par with freddy's rework. They just made that change because of him.
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@KillermainBTWm8 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/670552#Comment_670552
Devs: *Sees post about people begging them to not nerf the demogorgon*
Also Devs: "So if people don't want the demogorgon to be nerfed that must mean he is most likely to be OP and needs nerfs right?" Other dev: "Makes sense to me let's get to nerfin"
Another dev: "So... what are we going to nerf on him, exactly?"
All devs in chorus: "Yes!"
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I think that there sould be a 3-4 maps pool that survivors go on a vote to ban, if there is 2-2 votes, one of the two is picked "randomly" to be banned. Then, the killer chooses one of the other options.
This has some rules like "2 maps of the same region (exp: rotten fields and thompson house) can't be in the same pool, just 1 of them appears.
This can go really well along with the map reworks, it's also a way for the devs to see which maps are more unbalanced/unfun to play.
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@SpyMature said:
After playing some matches as Demo, I noticed 3 major problems with the Shred attack whenever I try to use it
1) Sometimes the hit doesnt register at all AND I SLIDE next to the survivor as he was a piece of slippery ice
2) The charge up is very inconsistent, and if you spam M1 you can actually cancel the attack and whiff, it should be changed to work similary to the Huntress hatchets - Press and hold M2 to charge up the attack, release M2 to start attacking, press M1 to cancel. This would be a nice QOL update.
3) You can't turn your camera at all whenever you hit or miss a survivor, for some reason the sensetivity stays low until the whole animation is over, I hope that wasn't intentional as there is no reason for that, Billy doesn't have such problem when he uses his chainsaw.
I will disagree with the second point of yours.
It was made on purpose like that because if it is like you said, whenever you tried to see if someone was messing up your portals you would lunge forward (the killer instinct thing). This seems a downgrade to me.
They should make it so you have a bar that you fill (like pig's dash, except it doesn't do anything automatically when the bar is full), if you want to lunge, press m1, if not, just let it be pressed and then release it.
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I personally agree with most of the topics mentioned in this thread, but the biggest problem is that he is NO FUN to play. If you played the old legion like me, you know what i'm talking about.
He now feels like a slug "running". 80 years old susie doing parkour on windows and pallets. 20 seconds to be able to use the sluggish power. Survivors outrun you 70% of the time (depends on distance that isn't that much). Miss a hit and you're #########. Headache after frenzying. Went from "stabby stabby" to "be careful to not miss".
His power has SO MANY restrictions for almost no reward. Competitively, he needs buffs for sure, but from a fun perspective, he has a LONG way to go imo.
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@Alice_pbg said:
24th... I think
We get ptb for servers today, on the 10th we get the ptb for stranger things
And after 2 weeks of ptb it gets released
Anyone that knows better, please correct me if Im wrong
Yes, you're wrong. They said that stranger things will come tomorrow (september 4th). So they will be live in the same day as the dedicated servers which i believe is 17th.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663273#Comment_663273
I think he was trying to say Meaning takes like.... 1-2 minutes? Also that we must have never played Legion before... and something about survivors being a one tap? I think he hasn't played new Legion and used the exploit with Old Legion.
If that is what he is trying to say, then nothing that he said is ok.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/663258#Comment_663258
What.... words are you trying to use?
Im really trying to understand what that guy said but it is giving me a headache.
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They've put a giant notification in the forum saying that they don't have a date for PTB.
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I think it is a good idea because michael stalked the entire game to kill people. He should be rewarded with no exceptions. The only one is decisive, but you didn't hook anyone so it isn't a problem. It's extremely difficult to stalk people with judith's tombstone and even more with thuft of hair too, so it needs to have a good reward.
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@BenZ0 said:
But even if the devs are gonna change the stun durotation and vault speed, the CORE problem of legion is still that you are a killer without power when it comes to kill a survivor. And that is for my opinion even the worse part.
They should bring back the multistab to reduce the timer and make legion again to a slow movementspeed killer with a smaller terror radius, so then you can actually down survivors faster then running behind them like a M1 killer.
You can compare that to plague when survivors dont cleanse (what they are mostly doing when they know how to play). But the plague has some extra tools like your vormit sounds counter iron will, you see infected objects to get an kind of tracking ability and you dont have to injure the survivors again if they start healing to waste even more time to get the survivors back to injured.
In my opinion without franks mixtape or the moonwalk exploit the old legion was waaaay more fun and different to play. Now legion is just another of these boring M1 daily ritual killers like wraith, leatherface and doc.
I really hope the devs are gonna do something but i think we all know that they will not do anything in the close future. Maybe in some months but yea..
Rip my money that i spended on a DLC that is not really enjoyable now and rip cells for susie skin :D
I share the same opinion as you. A lot of people complain about the fatigue time, missing hit penalty and vault speed. I agree with these people 100% BUT
Legion still has that problem, because it doesn't matter how many changes you make to his power, if it isn't lethal, then he is simply an m1 killer just like the others. I'm not saying that it is bad from a competitive perspective, but from a fun perspective he has lost his identity of a fast stabbing killer, agile that hits everyone in his way. If survivors swarm around him, he deals with them.
This is my way to see legion. He needed buffs, not nerfs like he got. He needed a fix to those two things and the "exploit" that if you spammed lunge you would go further while in frenzy. Solutions: Make deep wounds not reduce within a certain distance(not terror radius based), completely change frank's mixtape and make it so that missing a hit while in feral frenzy wastes 25% of the bar. Simple as that. Some buffs on the power and we are good.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650430#Comment_650430
That's at least better than what nurse deals with. If you stun her coming out of a blink she deals with both the stun AND the fatigue
So what? Her power is lethal, has a very small fatigue, you can see scratch marks and blood, if you miss you suffer a very short cooldown still, it is spammable and if you get stunned as a nurse idk what you're doing with her.
Legion can't see blood, the power isn't lethal, has LESS mobility than nurse, has a GIENORMOUS fatigue time, can't see scratch marks, if you miss you have no power for 24 seconds and receive the gienormous fatigue time. All of this for a first hit or more if survivors are stupid to stay together and you don't miss the first hit because of lag, getting juked or because of auto-aim.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650416#Comment_650416
Only way she can exit her power is to deal with the fatigue stun or get stunned. Simple
That's not the point. The point is that you run enduring so the survivor drops a pallet on you and you avoid the fatigue time (4 seconds) and get the stun instead (1 second). You brought the fatigue as a stun for no reason at all.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650049#Comment_650049
"Funny how a killer has to rely on getting stunned to exit their ability"
Nurse has to get stunned to exit her ability.
Your arguments are the worst #########. That doesn't even make sense. She gets fatigued, not stunned, and that completely changes the subject. Legion reduces the fatigue by being stunned. Nurse can't even be stunned while fatiguing.
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@Impala said:
The Sunflower.
The Thing.
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@MySpaceBarsBroken_YT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/646384#Comment_646384
The ol loch ness monster 'dedicated servers'
Believe it when I see it. I can list more issues if you need me to... the point is. They run the risk of embarrassing reputation by make killers bland (old freddy)
I also know more issues than that but new players will be mostly fine without those issues.
Dedicated server will be a huge improvement to the game. It helps with matchmaking, lobby times as killer (new people have an easier way to start as killer), etc. etc.
This game isn't as near as perfect but they won't "embarass" themselves by that. The demogorgon has a whole new mechanic and status effect around her. I agree with you that the power should've been something more iconic, but you need to wait to see the power completely shown. Still, it isn't that bland.
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@MySpaceBarsBroken_YT said:
People like the idea. The product is still just broken lobbies, crashing games, lagswitching killers, broken hitboxes, mechanics, extreme lag, massive map, perk imbalances especially imbalances between killers.
Most of the issues you mentioned will be fixed with dedicated servers.
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Your idea is really good for the new legion. What we're doing on this post is trying to bring old legion's mechanics and counterplay at the same time.
But if the devs don't want to bring old legion back, then your idea is good to increase his lethality.
He still lacks chaining hit potential tho.
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607873#Comment_607873
I mean, my only disagreement was looking up. Legion relies on knowing the initial location of the survivor he's chasing. Everything else is fine.
Maybe looking down like he does when exiting frenzy now is better...
I didn't play him when he was strong though. Could he see scratches/blood?
He could see blood only. Bloodhound was one of his "must take" perks.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Btw. Idk if you'd call this a benefit, but if we make the duration 8 seconds instead of 6 seconds then the total speed is an average of 4.5, which means that using the power gets you a longer distance than walking normally would, rather than just being burst movement.
Right now it doesn't unless you actually hit someone.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607409#Comment_607409
I'll ping you if we can figure out something good. For now I'm just playing with the Numbers to see what happens.
Most of it is fine as is in most standard situations (such as the ones listed in the play, counterplay section) but since one of the situations where it DOESN'T work is an important one, that means something needs tweaking, at least a little bit.
Sure. I'll change any idea that you have tomorrow.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607375#Comment_607375
32% is the absolute minimum we can let him use his power at. Since anything less and he would fail to get a hit in even at 0 meters.
I don't think that's the right approach.
I'm too sleepy to think about numbers and stuff. Give me the numbers and I'll change them on the post, if you guys have an idea ofc.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607211#Comment_607211
In my rework, I changed his Frenzy to be usable when 25% of the power gauge was filled, since he’s actually worse at chaining hits than your iteration of Frenzy.
This, in my opinion, was what made chaining hits as old Legion possible—not doing it all in one Frenzy, but getting close with one Frenzy and then quickly following it up with another.
Also, to answer your question as to how people get chains: Stupid Survivors. Most to all of my chain hits are from Survivors crouching in place behind trees because they literally do not know that I can see them through walls. And when they aren’t doing that, they’re staying on a generator. My best guess of their thought process is that they somehow get it into their head that the Killer won’t come for them—maybe since they’re used to Legion mains tunneling like absolute 4heads.
That can also be a change. And i agree with it. It's exactly as @NuclearBurrito said, the numbers can be changed so it is the most balanced and effective as possible.
If there is a case that he can't catch a survivor, the bar will refill quickly up. I think that the correct value should be 45% not 25% nor 60% but still... he can catch survivors more easily with these changes.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607228#Comment_607228
They know your starting location as part of the premise of the situation. They'd be running in a straight line away from you.
They'd need to be heading for a dead end withing 40ish meters (which is possible but mathematically suspect)
People usually run for loops and not always in a straight line. Even if there is a tree, the survivor will dodge that tree by starting to run to the side and legion just needs to change the camera very very slightly to the side and loses no time doing so. It's a very niche enxample but you get the idea.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607186#Comment_607186
No he's right. It's relative distance that matters not absolute distance.
Basically take the Legions speed and subtract 4 M/S. That's what you use to calculate his effective range, which is 6.6 for the first hit and 19.2 for additional hits.
Yeah, but when you chase someone, you always go for the shorter path. That is why he gets chained hits.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/607116#Comment_607116
“Running at 5.6 ms for 12 seconds is a lot(67.2 meters) so it will be very hard for them to run you out. The current frenzy is 50 meters and it accomplishes nothing because of the ms being so low.”
The amount of distance you travel is irrelevant. What matters is how fast you can catch up to a running Survivor.
“You can't put things like that. This needs to be adjusted because there are variants.”
- If the Survivor is far enough away from you that they can’t tell where you are, then chances are, when they do—which shouldn’t take them long unless they have no headphones and a blindfold on—they’ll still be too far away for you to catch up when they start running. Besides, the situation described is two Survivors who were bu chef up before they decided to run away from the Legion—the situation in which Legion’s ability to chain hits ought to shine the most. And yet, it doesn’t.
- The snags in running away you described do little to nothing to hinder the Survivor’s ability to put distance between you and the Killer, and you know it. So what if the path is suboptimal? If they’re running AWAY from you in any fashion while you go the other way to chase another Survivor, then they’ll be putting leagues of distance between you, no matter what.
"The amount of distance you travel is irrelevant. What matters is how fast you can catch up to a running Survivor."
What do you mean is irrelevant? If frenzy only ables you to run 2 seconds at 6 ms(for example) it should be very good, as you're saying it is.
point 1- Legion can travel a lot and can catch them, survivors aren't omniscient and know where you are all the times. Legion has a small terror radius (24 meters) and with our without M&A he can catch multiple survivors with his power. He is really fast so he can catch up fast and far.
point 2- What i said makes a LOT but i mean A LOT of difference. Even if the survivor runs away to the opposite side you can still catch them, and fast. Those "leagues" of distance can be compensated by the distance and quickness that you can catch them.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@NuclearBurrito Also, I made a miscalculation. If you’re running towards one Survivor at 5.6 MPS, and the second one is running away at a rate of 4 MPS, then there is a total of 9.6 meters of distance being put between the second Survivor and you every second. This means that the Survivor reaches the distance needed to outpace your Frenzy if you chase the first Survivor for longer than 2 seconds. You would literally need to be right on top of them by the time one of them is within hitting range.
Running at 5.6 ms for 12 seconds is a lot(67.2 meters) so it will be very hard for them to run you out. The current frenzy is 50 meters and it accomplishes nothing because of the ms being so low.
"If you’re running towards one Survivor at 5.6 MPS, and the second one is running away at a rate of 4 MPS, then there is a total of 9.6 meters of distance being put between the second Survivor and you every second."
You can't put things like that. This needs to be adjusted because there are variants.
1st variant- The survivor doesn't run exactly the opposite way. What you described is an almost impossible situation.
2nd variant- The different paths that a survivor can go through to run away aren't always a straight line.
3rd- The survivor may or may not see you coming and, even if he hears you, may not know where you're going to.
and so on...
Basically that is the best of the best situations possible.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Ok this is actually getting a bit off topic tbh.
If you want to talk more about our rework then you can comment on the thread for it.
The existence of an alternative rework idea doesn't invalidate this idea anyways.
We can't delete comments tho :/
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/606754#Comment_606754
So, you basically just admitted that Feral Frenzy’s hit-chaining capabilities are still weak with your rework, further nerfing any pressure he may have in exchange for a more “lethal” four-hit-down power.
The 10 seconds to mend was the old mend time and people already complained about it but that isn't really important, as you said. But with skillchecks, they must be aware of 2 things: when a skillcheck appears and when legion is coming to down them. it may not seem like it, but makes a huge difference between pressing a button and looking around with no problem and pressing a button but being careful about ######### it up and being careful watching when the killer is coming.
I don't know why people call it 4 hit down because the 1st and 2nd hit are basically one because there is no way in hell that you can't hit the same person again after aplying deep wounds.
I think it ALL doesn't come down only to math because there are a few variants that you have to make to count after the math is done, adjusting it. Just by the fact that people are careful about the skillchecks they are consuming time to when to mend and where, this can give you some more time. The reduced cooldown by canceling it is good even with a loop nearby. Breaking pallets faster is obvious that it will result in a lot less loops and safe places. With the rework, survivors are also in need to heal or, otherwise, you have a frank's mixtape on them (same with exposed). No, it isn't broken. Why? Because you can't vault pallets as you could before and it has counterplay. The stall potential is ginormous in the contrary to what you said. Now people don't even bother about healing or being exposed vs Legion. This rework makes it needed to heal.
Explain to me how this is bad to you?
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@NullSp3c Moreover, I've looked over the thread you linked, and the proposed rework nerfs Feral Frenzy's ability to apply stall and pressure—the exact thing Legion needs. It doesn't matter if he can use a mediocre Frenzy to down a Survivor; that won't stop the other three from doing generators.
Which do you think is more fun: Going stabby-stabby with very little thought and effort and having your generators done immediately, or actually having to M1 but being able to last longer than 5 seconds before the gates get opened?
What do you mean it doesn't give stall potential?
He can reach multiple people easier with the changes, so everyone is injured and mending. The guy you're chasing after hitting other people can be downed by 2 ways:
The one that i described above( that is powerful imo)
And if you cancel frenzy you receive a shorter cooldown than normal, making it more lethal and it can end chases fast.
This basically gives legion multiple ways to achieve it's purpose: stall the game and kill people.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Does this matter at all?
Even if someone was just mashing on the keyboard without even understanding english their arguments would be equally valid.
This is a discussion, he didn't say anything that could be discussed. But this is a free forum and anyone can say what they want when not insulting others. My point was that he gave no discussible commentary. It was so fast that i thought that he was one of the people that simply hate everything without reading it all but ok.
It doesn't matter for me but for this dude does.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/605309#Comment_605309
I never said I disagreed? Just that asking someone if "they read it all in 4 minutes" was heavily implying that it couldn't have been read, therefore their opinions were invalid.
I just said I read it in 2 showing that reading it in 4 isnt impossible.
But you wanna argue with someone dont you?
It was common sense that you can agree/disagree and i said disagree because it was his case.
What do you mean with this? "But you wanna argue with someone dont you?" It seemed like you said that i wanted to fight.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/560711#Comment_560711
Hell I read it all in 2. That's no counter argument.
"This all seems bad. Maybe someone else likes it but this seems to make him even weaker than he already is." is this an argument then? This is a opinion without fundament. Tell me why you disagree and what aspects you would like to be changed/removed/added. That is a matter of discussion, not what he said.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/604832#Comment_604832
“If you can't vault pallets when you're not with killer instinct active, the stabby stabby mechanic becomes counterable.”
... No, it doesn’t. Just wait for Frenzy to recharge and then run around it. Or, better yet, just break the pallet.
If you run around it, the survivor can vault back. If you break the pallet, it gives the survivor time to run. frenzy only lasts 6 seconds, it is almost nothing. The idea is to have a 0.75 sec cast time which gives the survivor 3 more meters to run.
These are the best cases where the survivor has no window or other pallet to run to.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/603820#Comment_603820
I'm sorry, but I just disagree as a whole with your philosophy regarding Legion at his bare fundamentals. There's no way a power like Feral Frenzy can be fair and balanced if it can achieve downs. It's pure fantasy. Legion is fine as an M1 Killer; his short stature is not a double-edged sword unless you struggle to track Survivors and the Deep Wound VFX pay dividends (mostly back before the nerf), I can assure you. Keep in mind, I did well as an M1 Legion back when his base movement speed was slower. If I can M1 at 110 speed, then you can do it at 115.
Besides, even if it were good at chasing, that matters little if the Legion has no stall, because genrushing is simply too powerful of a strategy. Feral Frenzy works best as a pressure tool, not a chase tool.
I played legion the exact same way as you did before the patch. I only used feral frenzy to down someone when that someone was the last one on the trial and i knew where the hatch was.
Now that i think of it, it is fun to stabby stabby to down someone. The problem with that is that you could vault everything. If you can't vault pallets when you're not with killer instinct active, the stabby stabby mechanic becomes counterable. His power being lethal doesn't mean overpowered if you chose correctly how it works. Just see the post that i linked and go tell there what you think about the idea. I mained legion too, and still main so I completely know what you're talking about when you say that you played legion the "right way". Maybe the right way was to also kill people with your power but it lacked counterplay back then. Now i lost my will to play legion because he is unfun and i don't like the other killers that much.
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@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/603153#Comment_603153
""The idea of Deep Wounds seems cool but i have a problem with it. Feral Frenzy isn't still lethal and makes legion still a m1 loopable unfun killer"
I honestly don't understand what the whole gripe with having to M1 is. i get it can be frustrating with the way loops are designed, but if being an M1 Killer were ultimately that bad, then why does everyone rate Billy as top tier? The way people talk, you'd think his map pressure would be outweighed by the sin of being an M1 Killer.
Also, between his short stature and the visual obstruction of Deep Wound's VFX, I would say that Legion has the best M1 mindgames in the game—the first, of course, being Faceghost. Add on to this Legion I came up with and you have the slower vaults and further visual Deep Wound obstruction caused by stage 3, and him being an M1 Killer should be fine.
Keep in mind, I played old Legion at red ranks and used Frenzy the way new Legion is forced to use it—I chained injuries and applied Deep Wound for pressure and stall, and refused to use Feral Frenzy as a tool for securing downs. This means I was, quite truly, a 110 M1 Killer. And I nonetheless consistently got 3k's and 4k's in my games.
"It makes survivors constantly mend and it would make more people disconnect than pre patch legion."
I already addressed why they would be far from "constantly" mending; Survivors who DC against this iteration of the Legion are just entitled brats and probably the same people who DC against current Legion.
BHVR gave legion 110% ms because he should be power dependant. His power was supposed to be used on chases like all the killers that have slower movement speed. I think this was the right way to put legion. It is like it conserves his difference from the other killers, being a guy that hits multiple survivors but is also very fast at chases with the cost of needing to hit multiple times to down someone. With the link i gave you, his chases would have counterplay and he would benefit more than before when using feral frenzy to down someone or to chain hits.
Legion got from 4.4ms to 4.6ms because he needed an increase in lethality. You can make his power lethal with a lot of counterplay, effectiveness and enjoyment to both sides. Basically make his power able to do things that wasn't able when it has killer instinct active. For example: when triggering killer instinct, the power drains at half speed and legion can vault pallets. When out of killer instinct (simply pressing the button) he can destroy pallets x% faster, being x a number that behaviour thinks is fair. This way his power is better when you're after multiple survivors but gives you utility when downing someone. Gives counterplay to the survivor when going to a pallet.
The deep wounds solution is on the post but it is a lot to say.
I think the main problem with legion atm, from what i've seen and experience when i play him, is that he is very unfun and underwhelming. The unfun part is the worst one because, as a lot of people that were legion mains before that horrible patch, we prefer that legion is kinda weak but fun to play ( this doesn't mean that we don't want him strong). He got more unfun and underwhelming with the patch.
People who dc vs legion i kinda understand them but not totally. There were ways to counter him when he was trying to down you but it was just a matter of time for him to down because there was nowhere safe. Still... disconnecting is punisheable, and thx bhvr that it is.
High terror radius doesn't help, his short stature is a double-edged blade because it also makes survivors harder to detect and easier to lose.
Hillbilly is loopable but he only needs 1 hit to down you, has a lot of pressure and few downsides. His skillcap is ginormous.
The visual obstruction of deep wounds is just bad. Almost doesn't obstruct their vision and doesn't threaten them at all. Wow, your screen becomes very slightly black and whiteish and sometimes comes a drop of blood on the screen. Even if it would cause visual obstruction, that isn't the purpose of deep wounds, unless he stabbed you in the eye. JK. But deep wounds was made to down survivors that are bleeding internally. I think that should stay as it is.
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The stat part I would change some numbers but they are more or less the olde numbers so it's good.
The idea of Deep Wounds seems cool but i have a problem with it. Feral Frenzy isn't still lethal and makes legion still a m1 loopable unfun killer. It makes survivors constantly mend and it would make more people disconnect than pre patch legion.
I think the idea is good but not for deep wounds and it doesn't solve legion's problems. This idea would be better for plague's sickness imo. Solves the "no cleansing" problem.
This is how i would fix it (even tho it wasn't my idea, as explained in the post) if you want to check it out.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599350#Comment_599350
About the the legion change idea: overall it isn’t something I’d like, I do kinda like current legion but I feel like you shouldn’t be able to heal people/do gens while in DW. As for your comment he needed a nerf/temporary fix to his exploits but the “fix” doesn’t seem temporary sadly.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599355#Comment_599355
Imo the Freddy change was a nerf, the hit and run tactic worked well if you knew how to properly juggle the survivors, however he is more fun to play and face now while still being good.
That legion is the new legion but better in all ways. He is power dependant as killers should be so he isn't a m1 loopable killer. Still loopable, but not that much and unfun to play as.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599332#Comment_599332
They nerfed killer instinct detection
Slowed down vaults
Ff is removed when you miss a target
Bigger tr
To become a 115 killer
Those are some of the unnecessary changes that i mentioned before. No need to do them. "Just why?" Is my question
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599337#Comment_599337
I was telling him things they “fixed”. I know the nerf was too far, my point was “fixing” legion would be a nerf.
"Legion needed a nerf, the nerf was just too much." You simply said that he needed a nerf not that he needed a fix, in that case, nerfing makes part of it.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599329#Comment_599329
They “fixed” the moonwalk exploit and “fixed” FF downing so he’d have counterplay in chase, how would you have “fixed” legion without nerfing them?
In a fix you nerf some part and buff another to compensate. This time, they only nerfed him. It wasn't just a fix to the exploits, etc. They did it( that in my opinion the moonwalk exploit was really badly fixed) but then started to do another changes to him that had no sense at all.
How I would fix Legion was like in this post (IT WAS NOT MY IDEA BUT I WOULD AGREE 100% WITH IT) if you want to check it out.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/599318#Comment_599318
”Fixing” legion would’ve nerfed him no matter how you spell it.
Fixing him, in his case ofc, would be buff his chaining hits potential and nerf his tunneling potential. They nerfed both very harsh which isn't a fix, it's a nerf.