Please Buff Legion
Reduce power cooldown by 1 second.
Just 1. Just 1 tiny second.
Remove power-loss on attack.
Seriously. WHY is Legion the ONLY Killer that actually loses his active powers charge when he does what killers do; attack. What made ANYONE think this was a good idea? I mean, if his power could actually DOWN someone; fine. But it can't. So remove this.
Allow the Deep Wounds to incap while self-mending!
If someone is being mended by a teammate; it does not incap. But if they are self-mending, it should incap. A punishment for being too slow to heal. As it is, Survivors can literally ignore the timer until the last second, then start mending themselves. So how does this slow down a match at all when it's 99% ignorable?
Seriously. 3 changes & Legion is in a good place. Why is he still a joke? I want to buy them. I want to enjoy them. But they are not worth the price of the DLC in their current state. They are useless and attacking actively drains their power by 50%, for a power that can't even incap & can be ignored for 99% of its timer.
Comments
Basically:
You can't use Feral Frenzy to apply map pressure: The stun is too long. (I meant stun, not cooldown, above)
You can't use Deep Wounds to slow down gen repairs: You can ignore it until the last second since actively mending = never incap.
You can't attack: You lose Feral Frenzy charge.
So what is the point of Legion? Attacking drains his power, and his power is garbage.
Some killers and survivors say Legion's point in the game is to "slow" down a game. But to be honest I've never seen his DW to slow down a game. Every time I finished chase, everyone I hit during FF were already mended and ending healing.
His mending isn't even slowing game in 20-15 rank so…
You can't even down someone with DW... Through my entire time with Legion I downed only 2 people that somehow didn't thought about mending (started playing game after Legion nerf)
Isn't GhostFace losing his power after missed attack too?
With rest I can 100% agree. Less cooldown and more dangerous DW effect would be neat. I would also buff his duration, because it's a joke too
Legion needs faster movement speed, faster vault speed, less stun time and an add-on rework in my opinion.
Yeah but Legion loses his power when he's NOT using his power.
Yes and no for Ghostface:
Ghostface power does not lose 50% of charge if he attacks when not using it. Legion does
Ghostface takes himself out of stealth if he attacks; this is fair enough. It does not give him a 5 year stun like Legion.
Ghostface loses his stalk on a Survivor if he HITS them before it's a 100% stalk. This is a fair trade-off. Legion loses 50% of his ability's charge if he hits ANYONE. This is bad balance since his ability cannot one-shot & cannot incap (because survivors can mend at some point in the next decade so they don't go down)
Oh you mean that when he just M1 someone. I thought you meant that during FF when he misses he is losing it (why I even thought like that). Can't argue more.
Devs: So… you can't down someone during FF?
Legion: Yes...
Devs: So you can't use ability after u hit someone, because you can't down him with it?
Legion: YES!
Devs: Ok, so now lose your power gauge after normal hit.
Legion: Wait...
Devs: Now go chase people that are just 10 meters away from you with your pathetic FF duration and speed
Hell, here's another way to fix Deep Wounds:
Instead of a time limit until incap (Since this never happens)..
Deep Wounds lasts <x> seconds. During this time, Survivors: Bleed More. Groan Louder. Do any channeled action slower (repairing, healing, sabo, opening gates, picking someone up). Anything with a gauge is done slower.
This cannot be healed. It just wears off after awhile. Hitting someone with Feral Frenzy who is already wounded still won't incap them.
This would slow down the game, which Deep Wounds is supposed to do & fails at.
Some questions for you guys as i don't understand why you guys find him so awful, I usually do pretty well with him in purple ranks.
What rank do play at?
When do you use his ability?
What do you do after you use his ability ( hitting someone in FF )?
You can do well with anyone in purple ranks. You can smash a swf with Doctor or Wraith. Doesn't mean their kit is good. It still needs adjusting. Legion needs adjusting.
Here's a question: What perks do you use?
If you use Ruin, then that explains why you're doing so well.
I personally use his ability to try and spread damage and land the first hit. And that's it.
I then try to chase down the closest Survivor, preferably whoever is injured.
WARNING: Wordwall, I get passionate when it comes to Legion. Who was one of my favorite Killers. First CHARACTER I P3'd (for the trophies) because of how I loved playing them.
Legion is bad at anything above green ranks (and is still typically bad at green ranks) because Legion gets genrushed into oblivion. Their power is only good for landing that first hit. Old Legion could run around really fast. New Legion can't.
Their power cannot be used for map travel as it doesn't move around as fast anymore.
Someone did the math on the DBD GameFAQs board. You only gain around 10 extra meters if you do a Frenzy sprint instead of a normal walk. And the stun makes you lose all of that extra distance.
And in Frenzy, you can't see scratch marks or bloodstains. Meaning that you can't see Survivors sprinting around, running from gens or not healing.
You have a power that provides you no benefit in map traversal, and actively disadvantages you by not letting you track Survivors without Killer Instinct. Which is easy to escape detection from because...
… Legion's power has always had the same easy, OP counterplay: Split up. Legion's power requires people get into groups. And the moment Survivors see you, they are gonna scram. I had even said in the past concerning old Legion that their power could be beaten by running in a straight line.
This is still true.
The poor speed also makes it hard to catch up to Survivors and hit them to keep the chain going, or start it, and Sprint Burst lets Survivors easily outrun Legion.
Deep Wound also never downs Survivors. In fact, I've heard of Survivors deliberately going down in corners of the map with the purpose of drawing Legion to them.
Not only that, but someone on GameFAQs told them how they deal with Deep Wounds. They get hit by Legion, and if Legion switches targets, they mend to 99% and then hop on a gen.
They can get 1/3rd of that gen done before they can complete the mend. Because they're still in DW, they can't show up on Frenzy. The only way for Legion to catch them is to go back to the gen. But by that point, they can just crawl away.
I tried it, and it is VERY strong. It's the perfect example of how DW is laughable and doesn't stop anything whatsoever.
If DW is going to get so much counterplay and weaknesses because it CAN down Survivors, then they need to change the DW effect for something else. Preferably something that stops gens from being rushed.
The Frenzy movement and vaulting speeds needs to be reverted, even if Legion got a Frenzy duration buff to compensate (for some stupid reason) and the devs need to stop listening to rank 20s. And stop listening to themselves. (The devs are rank 20s as well.) They need to listen to the playerbase instead. But that will never happen.
Yes i do use Ruin, but I think Ruin being needed for most killers is another topic that will probably never be solved.
The part on how "legion doesn't slow down the game naturally" is true, but please don't use stuff like if you mend to 99% and do gens, because in reality most people don't do that. Same thing with don't cleanse against Plague, people use that to say Plague is bad, but 90% of games I play against Plague people do cleanse, so does it really matter?
I'd argue that flashlights can destroy legion at pallets, because if you blind him while he vaults he goes out of FF. Problem is, is that rarely anyone does that, so its not an issue.
Thanks for sharing at least, as I actually get why you want him changed.
Regarding distance. I'd actually like to point out that 10 meters is more than you would think. It's actually more range than any other similar ability.
New Legion is 10 meters, or 0.8 meters longer than the Spirit who has the next longest.
And then you get stuck with a gigantic stun that gives Survivors plenty of time to run. So if you raced to a Survivor on a gen, they can start running.
The 10 meters gained is also rendered null by the stun. As the stun duration is enough for Legion to make those 10 meters without Frenzy.
Frenzy is still trash, I'm disgusted with what it has become. I want my fast boi back. I wanna catch Sprint Burst megheads. I wanna deep frenzy everyone again.
Spirit also has the advantage of not being stuck with any form of stun. So Spirit can make basically the same amount of meters and not have to worry about a stun. Sure, she has to wait a second before being able to actually move, but that's not the same as arriving at the destination and being powerless to actually DO anything. Even worse, Survivors finish a gen right in front of your face, THEN start running.
The huge tier difference is also some proof for my claims. 0.8 more meters is worthless if you can't actually capitalize on it.
I didn't say Legion was good. Just that the 10 meter range is one of his biggest pro's and not one of his cons.
While we are talking about the stun though here's a fun fact. After the stun at the end of the ability:
Leatherface loses 3 meters
Pig loses 0.6 meters
Nurse gains 3.4 meters
Legion gains 4.8 meters
Spirit is the only one with absolutely no stun what so ever. Of the other Killers that have a stun Legion gains the most ground afterwards.
Of course Nurse has the massive advantages of multiple Blinks (which completely change the numbers I just gave in her favor) and being able to down the Survivor after her charge. But she IS the best Killer in the game so it's to be expected.
Point is Legion is hardly the worse Killer or even close to being one.
He's much better than Killers like Trapper, Wraith or Leatherface. Even if he isn't nearly as good as he should be.
Yes, buff my bois and gurls ^^
I happen to agree, as you can see here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/84609/is-legion-in-the-middle-of-a-massive-smoking-crater-from-the-nerf-to-them-yes-no#latest
Honestly, poor Legion needs a Freddy style complete rework.
Trapper has area denial & map pressure, and his traps can incap people. Legion has none of this.
Wraith's power is not offensive in nature, but does give him increased movement, so it give shim map pressure WITHOUT the 5 seconds stun. Coming out of cloak can be the equivalent, but that can be reduced.
Leatherface can oneshot people with his power. Legion can't down anyone with his power. Ever. Mending is too easy to do, and the DW bar does not reduce in a chase, so Deep Wounds is basically useless.
Deep Wounds is like a Pig trap that you can remove anywhere, anytime. It's a joke of an effect at the moment. It does nothing and barely slows down the game for more than 5 seconds. 5 seconds Legion spends stunned anyways.
Thank you. So much.
Trapper is great once set up, the issue is the set up time.
Wraith's increased movement speed is fine for traversing the map, however the uncloak time is too long for it to be practical for shortening chases which is where Killers need to be good.
Yes you can shorten it but you can also shorten the Legion's fatigue so yeah.
Leatherface has basically no Range on his power as I already showed.
Legions power has:
Yeah you can remove it anywhere. But it's 15 seconds and you have to do it eventually. It doesn't matter that much if they do half a gen and then mend or mend first before doing half a gen in terms of the amount of stall.
Applying DW is almost as much stall as a proc of PGTW, since each Survivor hit now has 15 extra charges worth of objective while a proc of PGTW is 20 charges. The difference being that you will proc DW far more often than PGTW so the stall while small in isolated cases adds up quickly. Not to mention that you are keeping them injured and thus vulnerable.
Point is that while you can't finish a chase with Legion's power, a free hit is worth something. If he had better Perk synergies and less restrictions on things like WHEN he could use his power then I'd put him in B tier for the same reason as the Plague.
But he doesn't so C tier.
"Yes I do use Ruin"
Case closed then. Legion is trash at purple ranks and your experiences are different because you use Ruin.
I also agree with you about Ruin being needed. They need to nerf the mechanics behind genrushing itself. Gens take exactly 80 seconds to complete without items, perks, Great Skill Checks or any other Survivors. A 2nd Survivor cuts this in half. To 40.
This may not seem like much, but it is a HUGE advantage. 3 Survivors on 3 gens at once is supposed to be the most efficient, but it's the most risky. 2 Survivors on a single gen is safer and faster. Much less time for the Killer to intervene and a Survivor doesn't have to loop the killer as long.
This isn't accounting for Greats, toolboxes, or perks by the way.
I also swear I've heard the devs are balancing new Killers around Ruin. Which makes sense, as they are confirmed rank 20s. And don't consult the playerbase on new Killer designs or anything like that.
I personally agree with most of the topics mentioned in this thread, but the biggest problem is that he is NO FUN to play. If you played the old legion like me, you know what i'm talking about.
He now feels like a slug "running". 80 years old susie doing parkour on windows and pallets. 20 seconds to be able to use the sluggish power. Survivors outrun you 70% of the time (depends on distance that isn't that much). Miss a hit and you're #########. Headache after frenzying. Went from "stabby stabby" to "be careful to not miss".
His power has SO MANY restrictions for almost no reward. Competitively, he needs buffs for sure, but from a fun perspective, he has a LONG way to go imo.
1.) Why do you want it to be cool down by one second less?
2.) They shouldn't remove power loss when the killer miss his attack. This is because when you hit one suriviour it puts them on mending state and injured state. When in mending state it takes like 16 seconds. Then to heal while injured it takes 27 seconds if not more. Not only that but when you hit a suriviour you regain your power and know the location to all suriviours. Moreover, perks such as thanatophobia and nurse calling makes his Sprint burst even more op than it should be. So why shouldn't they be a high drawback when using it?
3.) I think legion doesn't need a buff, but a rework like Freddy(just without it taking like 200 years to happen). I can go on and on to why legion can honestly be the best killer on slowing down gens and winning games more efficiently than the nurse. Obviously in Chase time no killer other then spirit can come close to the nurse.
You had only one rank 2...
Did you mori everyone? That would explain why all of the skulls next to the names are the normal "dead" skulls instead of the "sacrificed" ones...
Also, WHAT is WITH those Survivors?!
Lithe, Bond, WGLF at rank 5? Aftercare at rank TWO?
Where is Adrenaline on these sets?!
Tip: Legion Pin is one of Legion's greatest add-ons TBH. The ability to instantly break pallets by vaulting them is amazing.
2) I mean power loss on basic attack. Legion loses 50% of his power gauge on a normal M1 attack. When he's not even using his power. He's the only killer who actively loses his ability when not even using it.
Seriously? I thought you were talking about his Sprint burst attack mode, not normal basic attack. That is stupid and I don't agree of that being there and think it should be change. However, I don't agree on Legion getting buff because I been through too many torture with rank 1 legion with some of nurse's perks. I think he needs a rework because if he gets nerf he will probabaly be really weak, but if he gets buff he will be really op.
I have to agree with this Legion is a joke, survivors doesn't care about the DW or Feral Frenzy, they are just happy cause he is not in normal mode lol and they can't go down...
How can they get stab 3 times and not go down -.- and omg when you finish that Feral Frenzy the survivor is already almost gone lol
I didn't realise that's what you meant. I now agree with the rant on legion now. However I still dont think he needs a buff, but changes. Especially on losing his power using m1 attacks.
They ran Devour Hope. It's not like there was an ebony or anything that game.
New Legion is utterly unfun to play. Just cause some A$$hole figured out an exploit to the power, Legion has been nerfed into a crater that only a complete rework can fix at this point. This coming from someone that P3'ed old Legion cause it was fun to run around and stab people. Now its an utter nightmare even at low ranks.
I have a pretty unrealistic rework and its a complete power rework. If you wanna check it out lol...
I'll also throw my hat in the buff Legion ring.
I personally really like the high octane hit-'n-run chase concept and I would not want the power completely redesigned, but I have to say, the power has absolutely no connection to the theme making the name 'Legion' and the multiple killers idea a wasted concept.
So my pain points/suggestions are as of follows
A huge problem with current FF imo is that it provides no benefit if you don't get to hit anyone, you actually loose ground if you just try to use FF for getting around while also being a subpar chasing tool, not doing anything for you past the first hit
I mean let's see the numbers - afaik default movement speed: 4.6 m/s, FF speed: 5 mí6s, cooldown speed: 2.7m/s
10*5m/s + 4*2.7m/s = 60.8 m travelled
14*4.6m/s = 64.4 m distance
So you actually cover 3.6m less distance in FF than by just walking around. To break just about even in distance covered you need to hit at least one or two additional people
x*5 + 10.8 = x*4.6 + 18.4
x*5 - x*4.6 = 7.6
x(0.4) = 7.6
x = 19
Basically any FF lasting less than 19 seconds is a net loss in distance covered.
Before the nerf the ratio was
6*5.28 + 3*2.7 = 39.78 m
9*4.4 = 39.6 m
By increasing his FF move speed to 5.4 you'd just about have the same dynamic as pre-nerf where no-hit FF would still barely outclass walking around. Decreasing the stun on the other hand would mean walking is still superior option for getting around but his chase game would be improved tremendously.
And before anyone would argue that speedier Legion would be too opressive: let me remind you that The Hillbilly can sprint around the map at 9.2 m/s and a Nurse blink is ~13.33 m/s. Both of them being incredibly lethal, their tracking isn't or barely gimped and have pretty much zero forced recharge time unlike Legion who can't down anyone during FF, can't see scratch marks and blood (and gen auras after getting one hit in) and has to wait at least 20 seconds between power uses.
Add-ons:
- Pins: infamously awful and it's not hard to see why. Sure, let me just take a 24s+ penalty and give up the chance to find others just so I can apply a useless status effect on someone I already quasi-disabled, great idea. If I take the frenzy cooldown then I will/have to keep chasing the last guy I see and that's most likely going to be the person I just hit to apply the debuff. Whatever debuff I apply on him will most likely expire before they get unhooked or maybe even before they get hooked, meaning the add-on essentially does nothing.
As for the debuffs themselves:
Blindness - the only natural aura reading survivors have is seeing hooked and downed people, information a guy you actively chasing will have little use for. Other than that Blindness only
Mangled - the only one that's slightly useful, but again, you have to take a 24s penalty to be able to apply it and it only lasts for 60 seconds. There are way better options for applying Mangled, aka Sloppy Butcher.
Broken - The only benefit broken in a chase could give you is stopping insta/taphealing but deep wounds already does that. Furthermore, even if you don't chase the double-tapped person, broken actually screws you over and goes against Legion's hit-and-run playstyle; you don't want to stop people from healing as that's your main form of stalling, making them waste time healing.
- Fuming Mix Tape - absolute garbage. As I mentioned before, using FF without at least one guaranteed hit is a net loss in distance covered therefore time wasted, and you can't just tap FF to see where you should go as you will have to take a 4s stun for it everytime. Additionally, after you hit someone in FF you can no longer see gen auras so the add-on pretty much stops working when you'd could benefit the most from it, tho not like you'd need it as Killer Instict already gives you guidance. This add-on would not be worthy of even common rarity, let alone ultra rare.
- Frank's Mix Tape: Reducing mending timer should really not be a thing, this was and is THE reason anyone is frustrated by Legion as it just promotes tunneling and guarantees you can down someone without them being able to do anything but maybe stall for a bit.
- Slightly ocd but I'm kind of bothered by the fact that the mix tapes don't all share an effect, with Susie and Frank breaking the mold.
- Killer Instinct increasing add-ons: cute but subpar, knowing where someone you can't actually catch up to does more harm than good for you as it tricks you into dropping a chase only to not be able to reach the next guy in time, you are better off using duration add-ons.