ThePetDetective
ThePetDetective
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@Zaytex said:
It's just people being rude and horrible as usual, because this is the internet where only your own feelings matter and the other side exist only to facilitate your fun.
Don't feel guilty or worried at all. If the survivors aren't being nice or playing fair, then you have no obligation or moral conscience as the killer to play fair or nice either.
near as i can tell my reply was deleted. in short, yeah, i only start to shift and play dirty when theyre clearly A: creaming me and B: bming. if its one or the other i tend to hold back just cause its a video game. hell, even my survivor friends have this same superior air about them vs killers. i just dont get it
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@Zaytex said:
It's just people being rude and horrible as usual, because this is the internet where only your own feelings matter and the other side exist only to facilitate your fun.
Don't feel guilty or worried at all. If the survivors aren't being nice or playing fair, then you have no obligation or moral conscience as the killer to play fair or nice either.
See my stance is always "I am fine losing to the better party, unless they bm." For instance, as a deathslinger, on Hawkins, i was getting my ass handed to me. then, they start tbagging and stuff, so i decide ######### it, im not leaving this hook. and as a test, i turn around and walk 5 feet away, only to turn back and see ALL 3 of them, goofing around and generally going out of their way to pester me. I got 2k in a game i had no right to, and they said, and i quote "it's your fault for picking deathslinger."
I just dunno man, even when i swf with my buddies for fun, they give off this air of "dude this killer sucks so bad im killing it" and its like...this is a video game for fun. theyre tryna have fun to.
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@Zarr0ch said:
Don't bother dude, these forums are killer heavy and will destroy you for a post like this. Yeah, they pretend to play both sides, but the truth leaks out.
nice bait.
In regards to the actual post, you pose some good ideas, but i think the argument "everyone else has a chance to do gens while you die" is strong *enough* that the devs consider this a punishment for the killer, and wouldnt make any particular incentive to not tunnel. Without going too into the fair vs unfair, tunneling is an important tool if someone has a particular perk you need out of the way asap, or if its 4 gens done and you have nothing to show for it.
That said, looking at the changes you propose, it sounds like this can be shoved under the "holy ######### the emblem system is bad" discussion, even though you mostly talk about bp itself. It's also a slippery slope to say max boldness should overflow into altruism, cause whats stopping you from saying all points should overflow into other catagories?
Pretty much, i think this is one of those things you just have to deal with until emblems are fixed, cause thats where i honestly think the problem lies.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
Rank really is pointless though.Of course one can assume the better players will be red ranks and really bad players are yellow or brown ranks.But that isn't the reality unfurtunately.
If you play the game at red ranks,where pretty much all the high level players are supposed to be you will see A LOT of players that simply don't belong to those ranks at all it's amazing and really sad to see honestly.On the other hand the amount of good players on red ranks is very small.
Rank today is only an indicator to how much you played this month nothing else.It says nothing about your skill,it only translates your playtime of DBD this month.
So regarding that the gap of different ranks in the lobby shouldn't be too big because otherwise one would verse players with way more or less play time than the other.
But the devs already said that they are working on a change to the rank system anyway so we have to wait how this change will turn out at the end.
I appreciate your insight, and i share a fair bit of the opinions youve put. the fact is, though, is that 1: conceptually, in a perfect world, where rank did mean how good you are, its insane that they built the system, again, with that perfect rank in mind, where a rank 10 could fight 3 rank 1s and a rank 11 just cause they swf.
and 2: this thread is mostly (though i admit i got sidetracked) about the "rank means nothing" excuse. Frankly, unless i get told that by someone under my rank (under as in im rank 10 and them rank 16 or something), who escaped, put up a great game, and was cool, i do not think that argument holds any water besides the fact that awesome crazy good players dont wanna feel bad that they taunted and tbagged a baby killer.
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I'm sure you, well known in the community to rush to a survivors defense, can see why this thread isn't constructive at all. Personal opinions aside, what does this solve? Killers say this game is stressful not because of the way they play but because of a select chunk of survivors. There are definitely some killers who just Winge about it because they want their ez4k, but i don't think that's what you're talking about. This thread, at best, seems like a misguided attempt to help killers by driving them away, at worst to tell killers they don't deserve to play the game they want to play, or realistically just a bait thread.
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deliverence. unless you know your allies are #########/playing in a 4swf its so hard to use effectively.
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You're missing a key problem. This would be tremendously useful for Clown, Deathslinger, Cannibal, *Maybe* Pig or Wraith, as these are what i consider to be the 5 worst killers at base kit. The problem then is, Every other killer gains a massive buff, as well as Shadowborn gaining an indirect, slight buff. Then you get to the problem of Small maps or 3-Gen clusters and realize this solution to a relatively complex problem is Kneejerk at best and survivor sided nonsense at worst.
-Legion and Oni 'In Power' are their respective berserker Modes.
-There's an argument that Shape 'In Power' could be Tier 3, but Scratched Mirror would be immune then? That would be such a *massive* buff to an already OP Build.
-There's *I guess* an argument for Corrupt Purge Plague and Phase Walking Spirit. Could go either way.
-There wouldn't be a point for it counting only if Billy, Cannibal, and Nurse were 'In Power', as they're powers are such short bursts that it would effectively have no bearing.
-But, all that said, what would you define as "In Power" For The Deathslinger? The Huntress? Trapper? Hag? Freddy? Doctor? Demogorgon? Clown? Nightmare? Cannibal? All these killers, ranging from Clown to Nightmare, encompass, pretty much, the E-A tier. And they all get a constant, permanent gen regression perk for free? How on earth is that fair?
Again, dude, you literally said "Make me looking at gens make it go slower." And all you could say was the same old tired squawk repeat the funny thing other people say, instead of any real defense.
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Wow, this blew up while I was gone. I can't quote every message i wanna respond to, so I'll give a general reply to most of this (except for that random jaws clown and jeff the killer stuff?).
Seeing the Numbers for all versions of Legion has definitely been eye-opening to what people really mean when they say old Legion was good. I've started to notice each time I miss a swing, each time I'm stunned, and how painful it really is in terms of losing survivors. As Gatsby put it, there are a lot of things you could do with Frenzy, but the stun, and the charge, I'm realizing more and more are incredibly oppressive for little payoff. I've also realized how much basic attacks with frenzy would change the options you have, versus how little you have as it stands.
Survivors have a pretty easy time figuring out what a Legion is thinking in terms of who the target is, what they're about to do, and so on. So many survivors get hit by frenzy and just stop 5 feet away and mend, cause they assume Legion would run off and stab someone else (And 95% of the time, they'd be right). Legion can't really punish this without that stun, which is the perfect chance to get away.
The stun is definitely one of the bigger parts of Legion's kit that I've come to realize doesn't make much sense. Not that it shouldn't be there, but it almost feels like a Band-aid from the devs in its current state? It's a good punishment for ending a Frenzy from a stun, if you stab someone with DW, or if you just fail to stab altogether, but i can think of this one game i had, where i chained i think it was 7 successful stabs before it ran out, and i didn't feel rewarded in any way. It wasn't a group of idiots, they were good survivors, but i remember thinking i could have ended it after the 4th stab and i probably would have had a better chance anyway.
Overall, a big thing about Legion i had before i made this thread was i both didn't have enough information on Old Legion (which is on me, but it is odd that on both the wiki and a couple google searches i couldn't find any of those stats), and i didn't take into account how oppressive the stun and restrictions were. Rose tinted glasses i guess. And while i stand by in their current state they're definitely on the underpowered side, and now think that their Frenzy is much more mindless than the old one (Which is the whole point of this thread i guess?), I do think that between v1, v2, and v3/4, 4 is the most balanced. Not saying it's the best in terms of stats or viability, but it's a middle between survivors thinking "Whatever may as well give up" and "oh lol legion ezpz."
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It's reassuring to hear that. Both things, i mean. Like, i already pretty much knew the second bit, which is why most of the time i let things be, but its nice to know that the extreme people are at least dealt with.
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For the sake of argument, ill accept that bloodpoints are useless (not true). That's at best not proving me wrong in any way. That same jake now can just opt out of challenges if he doesnt want to do them or if he does for no reward of any kind since blood points are useless and cosmetics are useless he just has a fun challenge to do. Again, quitting over this just seems childish.
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A survivor with 4 perks of their choosing has a pretty good chance of escaping if they're good, with or without addons. any medkit will do what it needs to do, any flashlight, any toolbox, the only exceptions are the maps and keys.
Killers need addons, some more than others. A wraith or trapper cannot understate how important good addons are.
If anything, maybe addons need to cost less. Not getting to keep them isnt a huge issue (Again, even if you dont wanna, survivors still have an option to keep them with a perk. Killers still dont!), and if you can only make a ranger medkit work if it has 2 green addons work in the first place you're doing something wrong.
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This just seems a little...bratty? I don't mean to insult, but people leaving over mechanic changes, nerfs, buffs, new killers, new perks, all that is well and good. But leaving because you couldn't get tier 70? Like...in practice, the ONLY thing thats changed pre and post archives is that sometimes you get a neat little cosmetic or charm.
Plus, even if you dont get tier 70, you still are always able to get the blood points from the archive. To, say, a stealth heavy jake to prefers stock outfits, there is absolutely no no drawback to not reaching tier 70. None at all. But now all players have tons of structured goals to head towards and loads of bp to get.
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what?
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@FreddysMixTape said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1198631#Comment_1198631
didn't expect you to answer this detailed. will try to do the same.
you are right, m1 killers aren't as weak as people say and as god loops are about to be gone next patch i am sure it'll be even more doable but the point is more or less that literally every other killer in the game has something to help them achieve the down. you are just factually disadvantaged as legion is the only killer who doesn't. you said they have something indirect through spreading injuries however, and this is personal opinion but i just feel like that especially with how long the fatigue is most survivors can easily make it to a loop and if they are somewhat skilled, still waste a decent amount of time, unless the loop is like horribly unsafe or something.
good to see that theres someone else out there who didnt think old legion was unsaveable, doesn't change much now but still nice to see.
fair enough on the subjective part. to clarify, i didn't mean to say these things are fact, i meant more like that you can see where people are comming from. 4 seconds is simply very long for a power that can not down anyone directly and is already restricted in numerous other ways. losing power charge isn't that impactful, sure. but it's still unnecessary and feels like it's there for no real reason(just like seeing no blood in frenzy, or going nearly blind when exiting it).
by lineartiy i meant that you can't use the power for anything but its one intended purpose. you can't use it for mobility because it makes you actually lose distance. you can't use it as a chase tool because the fatigue is too long, not to mention that legion has no collision right after a stab or vault which makes body blocking extremly unlikely to work.
as for the plague part, maybe i missread it but you said that survivors cant get away from her? i just dont get how plague is an issue unless she has like omega vomit ready in an extremly open area. but honestly most killers are a huge threat when in the open without any pallets. but this isn't about plague so i'll just wait for your full post on that. sorry if that remark was a bit immature, had a bit of a rough day and just kinda acted on impulse.
I actually hadn't considered this part of the M1 Killer argument before. You are right, though, he is the only one without any 1v1 tools. And while it isn't a gamestopping tool, i feel like as long as you've spread around a couple stabs before committing to a chase, Mending, healing, and potentially Thanatophobia/Sloppy Butcher are enough of stalling tools to mitigate the time wasted by the loops a survivor could get in. And as for the fatigue, I do really think it's both annoying and a big reason i lose chases when i do, but it's one of those elements that if it were 2-3 seconds default, and you still had the Cold Dirt and Joey's Mixtape, it would feel unfair for the survivor.
I've been playing a few more games, watching a few more videos, and i gotta say i was wrong about how it doesn't matter that Frenzy has weird restrictions. The general consensus I've seen is it's a relic of release Legion (cough cough Frank's Mixtape), but yes, I do think you're right, and that it really isn't needed/helping anyone.
Again, you have a point, but i think this one is slightly dulled by some of their addons. Both of the iridescent add-ons give Frenzy a new utility (gen awareness and survivor paranoia/pallet counter), but you could even make the argument that the detection increase, while not helping you secure hits, give's you decent ideas of where to look for survivors who think they're out of range, or that the duration can serve to disrupt things a little more. In general though, yeah, their power is a one trick pony. I personally just think the trick is decent enough that that is fine.
The short answer for the plague is i feel it rewards her for doing next to nothing and punishes survivors for mistakes that essentially came down to luck. I'm in the process of researching numbers and watching plague videos to put together the post, but in general i feel Plague is too rewarding to unskilled play (not saying she's easy to play, i sure couldn't pick her up and 4k, but those who are good at her i feel just have it easy).
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@FreddysMixTape said:
okay first of all, legion is not faster in frenzy then they were on release. the release version moved at 5.28(even faster if you were running the speed addons) while the current version moves at 5.2. second, what lethality lol? legion quite literally has nothing to down people with, they are a pure m1 killer which isn't particularly difficult to deal with if you're a halfway decent survivor.
"It's not like, say, Plague, who gives survivors little to get away." lol.
old legion got a lot of justified hate, sure. but people also complained about things that really weren't an issue(like their speed for example). probably an unpopular opinion but i feel like old legion could have been fixed with a few tweaks and some fixes to their exploits. the character wasn't nearly as fundamentally broken as some people pretended it was, but yeah not like it matters at this point.
lastly, what do you mean by "flimsy reasons"? last time i checked the things people complained about when it comes to legion were pretty valid. like their extremly long fatigue, the linearity of their power, their laughable addons, the nonsensical restrictions(like losing power charge for hitting someone) or the complete and utter lack of a tool to down people with.
If some of my post was unclear, let me try and clarify.
First, for some reason i haven't been able to find the actual numbers of Legion's release stats, so i made a guess that they were 125% frenzy. My mistake.
Second, by lethality i meant in most cases, you come out of frenzy with at worst one person in front of you injured, or multiple people injured, either near or scattered around the map. The lethality comes from how because of that, there's a decent chance one or more people are nearby and one hit away from downed.
Next, no offence, but your argument that they have nothing to down people with is the same kind of stuff i was talking about with flimsy arguments. I've played a couple Legion games since i posted this, and i can't see why everyone seems to think M1 killers are so unbearably hard to play with no power. In a 1 on 1 chase with a standard speed M1 killer, the killer isn't powerless. Bloodlust and basic mindgames are good enough, and if you still really believe they have nothing going for you, that's mostly a subjective opinion, not a fact.
As for old Legion, I agree! I don't think the rework was necessary, just some tweaks and bug fixes. But this post isn't about that really, it's about how Old Legion, as he was, was perceived, versus the rework.
I said flimsy reasons because most of them can either be argued against or are inherently subjective. i explained why i think the long fatigue is important, i think a good half of their addons are better than people make them out to be (I will agree the ones that aren't good are effectively worthless, but i'd say only 5/20 of them are so bad that no one could make use of them), as i said if you just employ basic killer strategies it's not terribly difficult to secure a down, and as for restrictions, I can't really think of one I would say is debilitating. The example you gave is really unimportant in the grand scheme. Either you downed someone with the attack or, for some reason, you decided it was better not to use/wait for frenzy to recharge. In cases like that, It's probably not a good idea to use it anyway.
The linearity, if i understand you correctly, is again a subjective thing. I personally love its simplicity and utility, but I know some don't. That's just the deal of a killer's power not being for everyone.
As for the Plague thing, I'm planning on making another post about that when i have the time, but if you don't have anything to say besides lol there's not really a point in saying anything.
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@SurviveByDaylight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1167782#Comment_1167782
killer add ons and offerings are so much better than survivors. Brand new part isn’t good enough to be equal to say the ebony Mori or most of the add ons of killers that give them even more of an unfair advantage on survivors. Brand new part still requires you to work hard for those boosts 😂 while killers just have to down hook tunnel Mori people? Nonsense. That’s too easy for killer. Killers gotta find people and they’re already good at that based on what abilities and perks they’re already given. So why can’t survivors keep their already not as useful add ons if they escape? Is it that serious to treat them the same as killer add ons? Killer ad ons are way more powerful.
im not sure what you intend with this responce, as moris are offerings, not add ons. it's not really comparable, everyone has always lost offerings, where as addons only recently were lost for survivors.
that said, for your argument, a survivor doesn't really have any meaningful offerings. they can change the map but that is arguable if its the same thing as a mori, and the only real thing they have is vigos jar (a gamble, since its, yknow, luck) and possibly the petrified wood, if that even makes a difference.
Their quote unquote powerful offerings ARE the items, and losing the addons which are only optional, but never required to use one effectively, seems fair. the best addons are kind of comparable to offerings, which i guess is what you were trying to say, but if you subscribe to that notion then it only makes sense to lose them.
and again, i know im sort of sticking to this point a lot, but survivors have a WHOLE perk with an arguably pretty consistant effect, that ALSO lets them keep add ons. killers dont have that option, they have the black ward, which isnt readily available whenever they want, while survivors have both ace in the whol eif they feel confident and white ward when they dont.
the bottom line is any decent survivor could do with or without items/add ons, while some killers pretty much need addons at higher ranks.
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To add on to what indieeden7 says, that particular challenge is optional, both from the perspective of you can go a different route to get to the final node or, if you really, REALLY hate the challenges, you have the option of playing killer/just playing normally and using base player exp. the challenge is supposed to be hard, but it's not some freaky unintuitive challenge. Its use the key in the way they're intended to use.
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if most addons are useless for a survivor, just use them for what they are and don't be worried. if they're that bad, you can survive without them. the addons that are REALLY good (Blood Amber, Brand New Part, Septic/Anti-Hemorrhagic, etc) are all meant to be one time splurge uses anyway. how is it fair to bring a skeleton key with blood amber + prayer beads and keep the tiniest sliver of it if a trapper can't keep his trapper sack or a clown's fingerless gloves even if they 4k double pip?
Beside all those points, your point of it being unfair doesn't even hold water. You keep the item, unanimously the most important part of an item, and you even have the option of running Ace in the Hole, which was only buffed in the patch (keep addons AND the 100% + 50% chest addons).
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1164698#Comment_1164698
Cypress Mori should be a basic ability. It does literally nothing to be an offering.
Ivory Mori should be very rare and should activate after hooking at least 2 survivors.
Ebony Mori should activate after hooking all four survivors at least once +1 additonal hook and only be able to kill 2 survivors.
Broken Keys should have the most charges. Something like 30 charges.
Dull Keys should take 30 seconds to open the hatch and reveal the auras of any person w/ the key to the killer within 30 meters.
Skeleton Keys should take 15 seconds to open the hatch and reveal the aura of the person using it within 15 meters.
Moris should be able to be canceled with a pallet stun.
Keys shouldn't be able to open a hatch closed by the killer.
-100% agree. At the very least it could be a flashy way to end a match if you don't care about emblems.
-Another whole heart agree.
-This one i sort of agree with in theory, but it messes up a few things. For instance, the only way to get Blood on your Face would be to run tombstone Shape. It's just one of those things where not having it would be stupid. I think the conditions where you can mori just need refining.
-I think broken keys are good where they are. If anything, it should have 15 charges max, if anyone else thinks 10 isn't enough. Or just bring prayer beads.
-I started writing an explanation of how unfair this one could be, but the more i thought about it the more i think it could be interesting. 3 survivors 4 gens done, one of them would have to commit. 2 survivors 3 gens done, one of them has to commit. 1 survivor and the gates closed, its a viable alternate to the exit gates.
-The problem i DO have with the dull/skeleton key ideas you had were the auras. At that point bringing a key in from lobby would be suicide, even with a skeleton key, and unless you know where the hatch will spawn just setting it down wherever at best wastes upwards of a minute when you do find the door. It also ruins all key addons for anything that isn't broken, as whats the point of seeing everyone/the obsession/the killer if they can see you pretty well, at no loss or input from the killer. And if you happen to find one in a chest, no one in their right mind would take it unless they had the incredible improvisation of finding the trapdoor, assessing that it's the only viable option, going to look for a chest, finding a key, and using it, all assuming they can sneak around the killer. And even then they'd have a 15-30 second time to open it where the killer ALREADY knows where the door is. even at a 3 survivor 4 gen situation that wouldn't be a good use of time, unless maybe you were on a bad map with a terrible 3-gen situation.
-This one i can see the thought behind but disagree. Not for gameplay stuff, i think it would make sense if a killer doesn't re-position a survivor before they mori it might be punished, but, for example, the Spirit stabs right through the chest, Ghost Face makes swiss cheese out of them, the Shape slices them up good...the survivor wouldn't survive, even IF the killer suddenly lost grip/got off. It wouldn't make sense and it's honestly such an inconsequential thing that it wouldn't hurt anyone to keep it the way it is.
-This one i agree with, however i think it should be a 30 second-1 minute cooldown rather than indefinitely.
Hope this doesn't come across as rude, i just think moris and keys are both an integral part of the game/tool for each party, but also need some pretty beefy changes to make fun for everyone.
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If you were going to ask for a change, what would you have in mind?
I've always been of the opinion that Ebonies (Cypress and Ivory are fine how they are) should have to have everyone hooked at least once, have the survivor been hooked twice, or both, before you can do it.
As for keys the only real solution to that is to buff a killers ability to find the door, i honestly couldn't think of a justifiable change to how keys function now.
Personally i think Moris are fine if you use them responsibly and keys ive never had too much of an issue with, so I'm just throwin' my hat in the ring.