NoShinyPony
NoShinyPony
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As I wrote in another thread, a gate spawning algorithm might be too complicated. Alternatively, the devs could create 5-6 different fixed gate spawn scenarios for each map of which one gets chosen randomly.
To make it perfect, take into account the killer's speed at which he can't patrol the gates.
Keep in mind that there are not only "unfair" gate spawns for survivors, there are also gates spawning on opposite sides of maps which are impossible to patrol for a killer.
Gate spawn is not only an issue for the EGC when one survivor is left and the hatch closed. It's also an important issue for matches where several survivors are still alive when all gens are done. Gate spawn should not heavily put one side at advantage/disadvantage.
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@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/474796#Comment_474796
Personally I disagree with adjusting the gate proximity but I can see the logic there and it's not a bad thing to do, I personally just see no reason to do it
The game already has so much randomness, starting from the map selection which can already wildly favor one side that having another mechanic that does something similar doesn't matter all that much
An example of where the EGC is more survivor favored would be Azarov's Resting Place when the gates spawn on opposite of the map. Not possible to patrol both of them due to distance and lack of line of sight
@Madjura I would like it if RNG wouldn't play such a big role in some situations. Luck shouldn't decide over win or loss. As you said, there are lot more aspects of the game which are random (too random for my liking).
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/474796#Comment_474796
Movement speed and power. All things need to be considered for the gates algorithms as a nurse with how slow she is could spawn gates 24 meters a part from each other which is just a GG in the end.
@FireHazard Of course, that's a given. I don't believe anybody would think "Nurse only moves at 96% percent so the gates can't be too far away from each other" or treat Hillbilly the same as Freddy.
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@SmokePotion Xbox and PS4 have a good enough hardware. Besides, I play on PS4 Pro and the performance isn't good here, either. Look at how other games run on consoles, even shooters. DbD's optimization simply isn't done well.
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Killers need to get buffed that way that they are able to face a 4 SWF group.
And then solos need to get more information so that they can also play gainst these more powerful killers.
I think that's the way to go. An indirect killer buff can also be a 2nd objective for survivors.
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The Nurse is in the game since almost 3 years. For most of that time period, survivors just played against her.
Now, we have that dc mentality going on since a couple of months. Players notice that the threshold for getting banned because of dc'ing excessively seems to be pretty high and some decide to dc if they face a killer they don't like. And these players expect to be allowed to continue to do so.
Even with punishments coming with dedicated servers in 2-3 months, it will be hard to get rid of that dc mentality and back to a normal state of the game. I wish the devs would take action sooner and not wait for dedicated servers. I'm really worried for the permanent health of this game.
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@NMCKE said:
Honestly, the EGC isn't remotely as bad as others are making it out to be. The only thing it needs is a maximum/minimum proximity range for the exit gates.
@NMCKE One can't repeat that often enough. The EGC is a very good game mechanic that only needs a little adjustement.
Like @FireHazard mentioned, to make it perfect you would have to take the killers' movement speeds into consideration for the spawning rules.
Btw, if creating a spawning algorithm for exit gates is too complicated, the devs could create like 5 fixed scenarios for each map of which one gets randomly chosen for a trial.
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@Elegant said:
I'm fine with the current DS. It only works if you tunnel someone off the hook within 60 seconds. It's slightly annoying but not anywhere near as overbearing as it used to be. The only one that really needs to be addressed is MoM. Borrowed time and the other ones are situational and aren't that huge of a deal.
@Elegant The current DS also works when you don't tunnel at all, but simply down the survivors fast. DS really needs to de-activate when another survivor gets downed/hooked after the DS user got unhooked. As it currently is, in a lot of cases DS punishes killers for playing well.
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@Tensor said:
Go buy a PC then and stop whinging. Otherwise, get on with your life. Graphics arnt everything!
@Tensor It's not so much about graphics. It's more about performance lags that mess up chases for you.
And playing on PC isn't necessary. Other games (even shooters) run amazingly on console, so I don't see a reason why DbD shouldn't run at least decently.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/473355#Comment_473355
@NoShinyPony gate spawns do need looked at definitely but I think gates would still be easy to patrol as billy/nurse.
I can’t bring a key every match and we still have the lobby dodge problem.
@TreemanXD You can use Plunderer's if you don't get enough keys from the bloodwebs. There is no shortage of keys if they are important to a player. And I wouldn't call it a "lobby dodge problem" if killers simply want to avoid unbalanced matches (but lobby dodging is a discussion for another thread).
Besides that: Survivors have so many chances to escape. So many items and perks available to give them more and more chances. At some point, a player has lost a match. There can't always be another 2nd chance.
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@SlinkyJinky Your reply means that you acknowledge that MoM has no real counter. That's a progress, good.
Now, with bringing up Alert and Franklin's, you are comparing apples and oranges. As @Sairek said, you can't compare these perk to a perk as powerful as MoM. It's like comparing Ruin to Déjà Vu.
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@GrootDude said:
@NoShinyPony the point of the OP was “effort=reward” If the survivors managed to do four gens then they had put effort in, if the killer protected gens really well then he/she had likely put in effort.
@TreemanXD Usually a reward comes after a task is completed. Doing 4 gens is not completing a task.
The hatch mechanic is a thing to not-punish solo survivors if their team plays bad. It doesn't mean "after some gens are done, it doesn't matter if you get the hatch or not, you'll get a free escape through the exit gate anyway".
The only adjustment needed for the EGC is a fixed min/max distance between the exit gates.
And hey, if somebody still wants their free escape, they can bring a key to re-open the hatch.
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@GrootDude said:
@NoShinyPony, @Sairek 4 gens would’ve had to be done for the five second gate.
@TreemanXD And after 4 gens are done, it's a too easy escape for the last survivor if the exit gates only take 5 seconds to open.
I don't think we have to talk about the op's suggestion to just bring Remember Me for that case.
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It's more a general dc problem, not a specific one with Legion.
Players dc if they face a killer they don't like, when they get downed for the first time etc.
Now, also the amount of dc'ing killers is increasing. It slowly comes to the point that there aren't any playable matches anymore. Either the killer or the survivors are dc'ing, depending on which side is losing the match.
Imho the devs need to act quick. Until dedicated servers go live, it will probably be another 2-3 months. Going that long without doing something about the amount of dc's has the potential to permanently hurt the game.
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@SlinkyJinky The only "counter" to MoM is hard camping. Once the survivor gets on the hook, he can't make it off.
The problem with this "counter": The killer is throwing away the match. While the killer camps, the other survivors will do gens. After the first survivor is sacrificed, the killer might have enough time to get a 2nd survivor to camp to death. Result: 2 kills, a de-pip and a really low amount of bloodpoints.
That's not a good "counter" that you are suggesting here.
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5 seconds to open an exit gate pretty much equals a free escape. I thought you don't like free stuff?
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Besides the EGC being basically fine (except for the thing with the gate distance, as @NMCKE mentioned): If you really need another chance on top, you can bring a key and re-open the hatch.
These item and perk slots are available to give you more 2nd chances. You decide if you want them.
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@liquidlight said:
I'm going to leave this here: https://youtu.be/JYW7xMyqHok
@liquidlight You think the problem in this video is how the EGC works? Even if you had escaped, you would have depipped and gotten a super low amount of bloodpoints.
Your problem in that match are your bad, dc'ing teammates. They are the ones to blame.
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@NMCKE That could work as well. Maybe lower the numbers a bit, 30% feels a bit too much.
(That also reminds me that Wake Up needs a buff.)
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@TreemanXD Okay, I thought you didn't get my point. No worries.
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@NMCKE I wrote that I like your version of Left Behind. I just wouldn't change the timer.
A perk that shows the aura of an opened hatch? Way too powerful for a perk. That should be left to a map item.
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@TreemanXD I didn't say "it didn't get tested", I said "didn't get tested in a PTB". You are missing my point now.
Yes, feedback was given. The majority said this perk was heavily unbalanced and couldn't go live that way. However, the KYF thing was treated as a leak = not acknowledged.
It's about that this perk was not tested in a PTB and therefore it was not officially discussed between the community and BHVR before it went live.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/471604#Comment_471604
It was tested by console players in kyf. It takes time to gather feedback and decide what to do with these things.
@TreemanXD Since a lot of months, everything gets tested in a PTB before it goes live. MoM did not get tested in a PTB.
It was BHVR's decision to bring this perk live without having the usual discussion about it with the community during the test phase.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/457526#Comment_457526
Even if the killer figured out, they can't really counter the perk anyways.
@NMCKE In this situation, the killer can make mindgames like pretending to go away to check the other gate but turning around and going back to check if somebody has started working on the gate.
Compare it to the old times when your SWF teammates could tell you the killer's perks after they died while you were still alive: You play differently when you know the killer has Whispers.
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@TheShape78 said:
I posted this in another thread but I'll post it here too. The guy that was supposed to make the Ghostface announcement posted on Twitter that it is indeed a chapter complete with a map and survivor, plus this image leaked from the PTB about 20 days ago of a map named 'SIdney's house Woodsboro'. See it for yourself via this link...
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/bmowo4/i_remember_when_people_told_me_we_were_not/
And for the image ...
https://imgur.com/a/kZfs6nj
@TheShape78 I don't think that person on reddit is indeed Robert Bean. It's probably just another fan making his own guess.
On the other hand, there is this big, credible streamer who implied that the devs told him that Ghostface comes alone.
I would place my bets on Ghostface coming alone.
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If you are annoyed that much by your teammates, put your focus on ranking up so that you can get matched with better randoms. Or play SWF.
If you "just started playing survivor" you are probably playing at rank 20-15. It is normal that your random teammates are inexperienced and have problems with Ruin etc.
Also, I'm surprised that you encounter Ruin every match at these ranks, and BBQ, NOED, Nurse.
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@SlinkyJinky But BBQ and NOED can easily be countered and made worthless for the killer (except for the BBQ bonus points).
Please name one killer perk that is as powerful as MoM and cannot be countered.
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I'm playing on PS4 Pro. For me, the performance improved with patch 2.6 but after the most recent patch 2.7 it got worse again. More frame drops than before. It's sad that the positive trend didn't continue.
(Keep in mind that I'm only talking about PS4. I read from Xbox players that the performance on their console got better.)
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@FireHazard said:
You complain about MoM yet we have a system where every match is EZ mode for killer if they know what they're doing. By simple giving them a option to close the hatch it allows both players at the end a 50-50 on who finds the hatch first.
And guess what? If the killer finds it first you're screwed. Don't believe me? I had a match where I killed 3 survivors and one was left, I found the hatch almost instantly and closed it and had a clear vantage point over both gates. In the end I just felt bad and let the survivor open the gate, but it was too late since after they finished the Entity came in and killed them anyways.
Now I can agree MoM is kinda busted under the right circumstances, but if you now how to NOT tunnel its not really an issue. But to say you need Billy and or Nurse 99% is a gross exaggeration, and this is coming from a killer main...
@FireHazard DbD is definitely not easy mode for killers. If it comes to the point that you have closed the hatch, you have already killed 3 survivors.
Up to this point, the survivors had a lot of chances to prevent this scenario from happening. There doesn't have to be always another 2nd chance for survivors. At some point, the survivor has lost.
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So many threads in so few days complaining about waiting 3 minutes max. I wish we would have had so many survivor players standing up for killers in the last years and asking for a change in the game mechanic when games were taken hostage by some survivors for 30+ minutes.
Anway, this current thing probably won't be an issue in the long run. Killers most likely only want to see the new killing animation.
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@Sleephartha said:
My post begins with the FACT that Billy is OP and asks if the game will ever address it. I didn't ask for opinions on whether he was.
Something doesn't become true just because you claim it is a "fact".
Billy's insta-saw is too strong, but that's about it. Billy with no add-ons can get looped easily just like almost every other killer.
Tip #1: If you have problems looping Billy, there are several good streamers you can watch and learn from.
Tip #2: Play Billy yourself and learn how not-op he is and what his weaknesses are.
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It has probably something to do with the copyright that he doesn't have the original look.
Also, don't get hyped for any survivor. At the moment, it looks like Ghostface will come alone.
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One big, credible streamer said that there will be no survivor. So let's prepare ourselves that we are only going to get the killer.
Besides that, the devs have been speaking of a "chapter" and a huge amount of people is also hyped for a survivor. If there is indeed no survivor, I think it would be a smart thing if the devs would tell the community so.
I'm afraid that otherwise a lot of people will be very disappointed and unhappy when the DLC gets released without a survivor they were sure they'd get. It's simply about avoiding unfulfilled expectations.
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Killers experienced survivors keeping their game hostage for much longer than 4 minutes, and that for years. So a few killers might act out of accumulated frustration.
That being said, I think the big majority of killers only wants to see the new killing animation in the next couple of days. I don't think this will be a permanent issue.
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@MomoMoon Killers did not only have to deal with survivors waiting at the exit gates. The bigger problem was survivors hiding randomly on the map with no chance for the killer to find them and force them out of the exit gates, just to troll the killer and make him dc. That is where the frustration is coming from.
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@ygnea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/466326#Comment_466326
If you bring a key it goes back to square 1, it's just a hatch stand off now.
It's not, the killer can't grab you from the hatch anymore during EGC.
Off-topic: Please use the @ tag if you want to let others know that you replied to them. Quotes don't give notifications. (You are getting notifications since you are the creator of this thread.)
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The devs said that they would give us more details this month. Keep in mind that "more details" doesn't have to mean that the rework is completed and implemented.
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@ygnea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/466172#Comment_466172
Most of the time, it is impossible. Gates usually spawn pretty close to each other the only map where this doesn't happen is leiry's maybe. But in high ranks, you usually go against killers with high mobility (most of them being billy or nurse) that can ping back and forth between exits in a matter of seconds.
There are enough chances to avoid the scenario where the hatch is closed. At some point, you have lost the game.
Alternatively, you can bring a key to re-open the hatch.
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That's a bug.
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Mad Grit is great against aggressive SWF groups. Infectious Fright is S-tier on Nurse. Shadowborn is very good on Nurse and Huntress.
Imho Fire Up and Thana are pretty weak perks. Also Lullaby is not strong at high ranks.
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Unbreakable only B-tier? And WGLF is E? Waaahhh 👾
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Is this list done with a focus on high ranks?
Overcharge, for example, is good against occasional players but weak against experienced ones.
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The killer probably just wanted to experience the new killing mechanic. It's not reportable.
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The devs said in another thread that they'd like to implement something like that, but we have to wait until dedicated servers are live.
(Dedicated servers are announced for "summer", so a few months until then.)
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From the start of the match, survivors have so many chances to survive. If it comes to the situation that the hatch has been closed, there is still the chance to open one of the exit gates. And you can even re-open the hatch with a key.
What is the point in playing a game when you get chance after chance after chance and so on without ever having to lose? Seriously, where is the fun and incentive to play well when making mistakes doesn't have consequences because there will always be another chance?
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@Taelance This is an emotional topic for killers since they had to deal with survivors holding the game hostage for years. Let's wait a week or two to see if this new mechanic is indeed a problem or if killers just want to see the new kill animation for a couple of days.
If it is a permanent problem, then there is surely a solution that can be easily implemented.
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The EGC is only live since yesterday. Everybody wants to see the new kill animation now. Give it a couple of days and it will go back to normal.
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@xChrisx said:
We can have 919395929 killers in the game but if they dont nerf the nurse everyone will keep playing ONLY her
Not nerf the Nurse, but buff all the other killers for more variety. 😊
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@SunderMun I don't see tunneling as a black-and-white thing. Especially when the gens are done.
We had a situation a couple of weeks ago where not enough people were playing killer, which resulted in bad queue times for survivors. I don't want to see more killer mains get frustrated and stop playing the game.