Moundshroud

Giving Killers the information will NOT increase tunneling. People who tunnel as a tactic already keep track of hooks on their own; it is kind of their thing. If anything, Killers seeing that information are likely to use it to avoid tunneling if they, personally, are trying to avoid it. All that aside, the easiest ways to prevent a Survivor from being tunneled off the hook are:

Do a safe rescue in the first place.
Use Borrowed Time when appropriate/useful.
Take that protection hit.
Take a hook yourself if need be.
Don't vanish like a Ninja the second you unhook someone so the only viable target is the same one.
Don't do the silly thing where you all take identical Skins; it is just as likely to lead to tunneling as not.

I trust you get the idea. I want to repeat, people who CHOOSE to tunnel already know who they have hooked. They don't need the counter. Adding one isn't going to massively increase the number of people who do this. I'm sure there would be a small percentage that do, but I think it would be equaled out (or exceeded) by the number of people who would use the information to AVOID tunneling.

in Can killers please see hook states? Comment by Moundshroud March 7, 2021

@Johnny_XMan said:
I disagree. If killers can slug for the 4k, survivors should have the ability to "suicide" to give someone else hatch.

I don't think anyone has an issue with Suicide on the hook for the SPECIFIC purpose of giving someone the Hatch. That is the only reason I will EVER do it myself. That isn't a problem, nor has anyone been complaining about that. :) The issue is that people suicide early in the game and simply throw the match, damning the remaining Survivors in the process. This happens far too often, just short of constantly. Perhaps one in twenty or so games will I see one Survivor suicide on the hook to give the other one an out. I see early Suicides every 2-3 games. Clearly the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few here, and the 2nd Stage struggle bus needs to be automatic. Far more games are being ruined than the odd Survivor getting a noble self-sacrifice.

in suiciding on the hook should be bannable Comment by Moundshroud March 7, 2021

@HuDawg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003400#Comment_2003400
Yes and you as the ######### killer how does it affect you?

Your myopia in this matter is astounding. Most of us play both Killer and Survivor. When we comment on the fact that you should not do a Suicide on the hook, it is from the perspective (primarily) of the other Survivors you are leaving to rot. While I can't speak for TAG, I suspect he and I aren't too far removed on this subjective. Let me explain how this selfish behavior affects EVERYONE:

It is bad for the game. A 4v1 only works if all the participants are actually participating. Suicides and disconnects ruin the experience for the other Players. If this becomes too common, the poor experience costs us Players. This game doesn't have bots. Less Players means longer Ques.
People who suicide and disconnect just made everyone else waste their Offerings and their Add-on(s). You are literally stealing the value of those items from them. If I had my way, the cost of said things would be created as a DEBT on those who disconnect and any BP earned would be diverted to said people before the quitters could earn any for themselves. Too difficult to do from a code standpoint, but it would be fitting.
You have left the other Players in a pickle. They can fight hard and still try to win, but depleted that match is going to be a lot longer, preventing them from getting into another match where they have a chance. So in a way, you are making choices for them and pressuring them to just quit too.
You aren't really hurting the Killer. Experienced Killers will simply milk those that stay of every last point of BP and Emblem to offset what you "may" have denied them. You have all but ensured that the others are going to have the game dragged out unless they also quit.
The bad behavior wastes at lot of the DEV's time, i.e. time and labor that could be better spent working on other issues. Just like we do, the company has to spend time talking about the issue of the pathetic losers who check out early and screw over their teammates. They know it is a problem too, and a bigger one for them because their paychecks depend on success. To us this is just a game. So in short, every meeting or discussion they have to have about this issue is a meeting or discussion they are not having about optimization, fixing bugs, working on events, etc.

I was going to go to a top ten list, but I'm trying to overcome the urge for overkill. You are a selfish person, and utterly unable to see how your behavior (this specific behavior) affects everyone in the game.

in suiciding on the hook should be bannable Comment by Moundshroud March 7, 2021

@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2003389#Comment_2003389
I don't even suicide for being face-camped. I was recently face-camped for almost two whole minutes at the start of the match and managed to escape because my teammates pressured gens enough to call the Killer's bluff and get them to leave long enough for the save.
But we are not other people. There are other people who do DC to ragequit. There are other people who do hook suicide to ragequit. Those people screw their teammates over badly. Not even the best of gen-rushing can save the team at that point unless the skillcap between the remaining Survivors and the Killers is massive. Those ragequitters are the ones who need to be punished.

Ditto. I won't suicide for any reason other than I can tell the other "last" Survivor is sitting on the hatch and there is no chance I'm getting out. At that point, I'll let go to give them the best chance of the hatch opening before the Killer gets there. I feel that I have an obligation to play my best and get as many people out, even if I'm not one of the ones that make it. That is the game. I never get mad at the Killer for doing their job. I sometimes get angry with other Survivors for not pulling their weight, but even that won't make me suicide. Why should I let pathetic Survivors drag me down to their level? If the match starts, I'm going to finish it and fight as hard as I can. If you ever see me disconnect, I lost internet, or something happed RL that gave me no choice.

P.S. *I don't get mad at DbD for the short ban I get if/when that happens. Normal people do not have internet crashes all the time, nor emergencies that constantly cause them to drop matches. If your internet is that bad, or your life that hectic, you shouldn't be starting a game that four other people are in and relying on you to finish. :)

in suiciding on the hook should be bannable Comment by Moundshroud March 7, 2021

@Dwight_Fairfield said:
You want them to ban people for utilizing an option they give players in the game?

I don't think they should be banned. I agree with you Dwight; that would be ridiculous. However, I do think Suicide should go the way of the dinosaur. I think a Survivor should get their attempt to unhook and accelerate the process during Stage-1, but once they get to Stage-2 there should be no Skill Checks. Struggle is automatic until you die. I feel this way because the 4v1 makes it really hard on the other Survivors when these people check out early.

At least with them riding out one Stage, that buys the others a little more time to work Generators, or perhaps get the save and that Player might just opt to keep playing. I don't like the "struggle bus" stage because:

It is bad for keyboards and controllers. Why make someone wear out an expensive mechanical keyboard early?
It gives the option to just screw the team over in the mistaken belief it hurts the Killer.

I just think that Suicides on the hook are just barely one step better than disconnects, and they are hitting the Solo que particularly hard. I see it as a Survivor and as a Killer. I also don't appreciate all the misplaced anger as a Killer at the end of the match. I'm like, "don't get mad at ME.... I didn't abandon you to that miserable match."

in suiciding on the hook should be bannable Comment by Moundshroud March 7, 2021

@Shaped said:
Every game I am the only red rank survivor paired with brown and green rank teammates. Seeing purple is more rare than encountering unicorn. Seeing red teammate? Today not a single one. And yeah in 90% of my games we are up against red rank killers.
Really unenjoyable experience and I can only imagine how it is for my teammates who are very new to the game being obliterated left and right.
It doesn't make sense even if there are more survivors than killers because where are all purple and red rank survivors? They are not in my games for sure. And how is every killer red rank now? No sense whatsoever.
I never complain if I get people who at least played a little bit but playing with new people against red rank killers is disaster in most cases. There really isn't much you can do as one person when others aren't doing their objective.
Tbh I might take another long break if this becomes a norm.

Nope, you aren't unlucky. "Taste the Rainbow" is a very real issue afflicting MANY of us. As a Red Rank Killer I hate pulling the rainbow because it isn't challenging and makes those people unfairly HATE me.

in Am I unlucky or the matchmaking is completely broken now? Comment by Moundshroud March 7, 2021

@malloymk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1996794#Comment_1996794
Exactly besides someome that is like two weeks into playing the game, who's playing a mist offering?

No one because as you clearly, already know... even maximum mist is pretty pointless.

in Should there be map offerings? Comment by Moundshroud March 5, 2021

Map offerings are fine. If you want to block them, paranoid about where you might end up, there is also an offering that blocks ALL map offerings. It is easy to get and shows up on the Blood Web constantly. Knock yourself out.

in Should there be map offerings? Comment by Moundshroud March 5, 2021

@shelobster said:
DBD wasn't like this before. Sure you'd get the occasional salty camper but now it's rare to find a game where the killer actually plays too and doesn't just sit on the first survivor they find hoping the other survivors will perform unsafe hook rescues instead of gen rushing and leaving. Boring boring boring.

I don't know how long you have been playing but in my experience there is no difference today from when I started playing. I don't see any statistical difference in Killers who camp or tunnel. And to be crystal clear, I track every match I play (record them too) and jot down what tactics the Killer or Survivors used. There is always variation from week to week but none of it is statistically relevant. Overall, most Killers don't tunnel and camp as a planned tactic. Even when it happens this is what I find led to it:

Other Survivors stayed in the area, obviously and ran around so the Killer never left; why would he?
The Unhooker didn't do a safe rescue, and didn't take a protection hit.
The Unhooker vanished immediately, leaving the wounded, unhooked Survivor as the only viable target.
The unhooked didn't leave the area, either working Generators or getting healed/self-cared under the hook.
The Killer hit several other people and simply ended up downing the same person for the hook again after.

I could go on. Actual camping and tunneling is in the minority when I break down matches. Most of the time it is the Survivors themselves that cause the situation. Squatting (what I call Face Camping) happens far more often in the Potato Ranks because said Killers don't know really know much and are desperate to hold on to that one kill. Pretty soon they figure out the behavior is counterproductive and move on from it. Survivors love to scream CAMPER all the time but never own up to their own input to the situation.

in I am so SO tired of camping and tunneling being the killer norm these days. Comment by Moundshroud March 4, 2021

The objective is to kill. All the points and advancement on the side are just icing on the cake. You can work it for more min/max style or not. The win or loss is in how many Survivors escape or end up dead.

in Killers debate: hooks or kills Comment by Moundshroud March 2, 2021

Overall, yes. I think things look good. I don't see much point to the hook at all for the Killer, however, since it doesn't eve accurately track how many hooks you have gotten. Whenever anyone dies it counts their hook states in that graphic even though they don't count for us. I think it would be better to just have a straightforward counter or take them away entirely. It provides ZERO usefulness.

in Are you satisfied with the HUD changes? Comment by Moundshroud March 2, 2021

@GamerGirlFeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983579#Comment_1983579
Read back on this very thread and you can find killers admitting to it.

And your point is? Are there some Killers who will dodge because they suspect a SWF? Sure. Are there some Killers who weirdly dodge because they don't like a particular Skin? Sure. But if you read MY post you will see that I point out that MOST Killers leave a lobby for other reasons. In fact, many Solo Survivors now leave Lobbies if they suspect a SWF because the experience they get is downright awful when paired with a team. Being a "Red Shirt" sucks.

If you have an issue with longer Ques, play Killer yourself. The key reason Ques are longer is not people dodging Lobbies, but a disparity in certain regions and time zones between ratio of Survivors to Killers. A much bigger problem is people (usually Survivors) who disconnect in matches at the drop of a hat because things aren't to their liking. Following that issue is the plague of people who commit suicide on the hook and leave the other Survivors holding the bag. If we want talk talk about "dumb reasons" for things, someone choosing to leave a Lobby before a match has even begun is pretty far down on the list. :)

in killers stop leaving just because you think it might be a SWF... Comment by Moundshroud March 1, 2021

@GamerGirlFeng said:
It's not even always SWF.
Killers will dodge for dumb reasons like they don't like certain characters or cosmetics.
Lame asf.

And you know this how? Shall we call you Professor X? Killers could be leaving a Lobby for all sorts of reasons:

They forgot to set the correct Rift.
Real life is getting in the way, and they would rather leave a match before it starts than disconnect.
They see a Player they have fought before that hacks or uses Lag Spikes.
They see a Player they have fought before that uses foul language, hate speech, etc. in the chat.
They see "TV" of some sort in one or more Survivor's name and don't want to be in a Stream.
They see a group that is made up of all identical Skins and don't want to bother with that.
They see the tell-tale signs of a Bully Squad, such as a large number of Flashlights.
They forgot to to change something in their Build from the previous match.
They recognize an actual "tournament" SWF they fought before, and don't want to fight it again.
They just decide they don't feel like playing anymore and want to watch some funny videos on youtube.

None of these are dumb reasons, and every single one of them comes up far more often than your theory that people don't like certain cosmetics or Skins (as all Survivors are merely Skins). While I rarely pull out of a Lobby, there are several reasons on this list, numbers 1-4, that do come up for me from time to time. Oddly enough, it is Survivors who cause far more delays by someone exiting the match after it starts to load because they don't like a particular map Offering. In the end, for whatever the reasons, I prefer Survivors and Killers alike to leave a Lobby BEFORE a match starts to load than to do so afterwards or disconnect (or Suicide) in a match.

in killers stop leaving just because you think it might be a SWF... Comment by Moundshroud March 1, 2021

@TauNkosi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983449#Comment_1983449
Because it rewards bad players. That's why so many use it. My change is for it to reward good players.

You have things backwards. NOED does not reward "bad" Killers; it punishes "bad" Survivors, i.e. those that do not do the OTHER objective, i.e. Totems. NOED is fine the way it is now. It is a high risk, potentially high yield, Hex. Killers take a gamble putting it in; they play a Perk down in the hope that Survivors don't bother cleansing Totems. Survivors take a gamble on whether or not to dedicate time and resources to doing Totems or not. That's it. That is the whole equation. The Perk work exactly as intended now.

in My proposed change for NOED Comment by Moundshroud March 1, 2021

@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1983013#Comment_1983013
you need to change your delivery, the current one's fortune cookies suck

It isn't a fortune cookie answer. When to Herd, Camp, Tunnel, Slug, or Mori (and many others) is entirely dependent upon when you think you should do it or just when you WANT to do it. These are all legal, valid tactics in the game. There is no qualifier for "unselfish" use. You play the game as you think it should be played in a given match to achieve your objectives. Your job as Killer is to kill; that's the long and the short of it. Your original question is the wrong way to think about it. There are no unofficial rules, no survivor's rules for Killers. YOU decide if/when it is appropriate. That is all.

in In which non-selfish scenario is slugging/tunneling/camping necessary? Comment by Moundshroud March 1, 2021

@MeltingPenguins said:
I'm still kinda stuck on the response not_queen and the devs gave in the QA stream when the question of if there's plans to do something about tunneling etc came up.
They said that in some situations it's 'necessary'. And I am trying to think of a single situation in which that'd be the case.
Now, you could argue that when taking out frustration against a toxic swf it's 'justified', but... that's fighting one problem with another (toxicity vs toxicity).
And all other situations... I can't see necessity there. IN-UNIVERSE one could argue that killers do this because they are scared of the entity's punishment, but we are NOT in-universe. We are all humans (mostly) playing a video game against other humans. So, when exactly is scummy gameplay 'necessary'?
Cause all scenarios I can think of that don't involve genuinely toxic survivors would have tunneling/etc mean the killer has their ego hurt and can't stand the idea of not getting an EZ 4K in... And catering to people like that is... not good.

It is necessary when you think it is necessary. That's it.

in In which non-selfish scenario is slugging/tunneling/camping necessary? Comment by Moundshroud March 1, 2021

@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1982951#Comment_1982951
you haven't had any results with this map yet.
It hurts me because seeing them put out maps like this makes me sad for the future of the game. When they show no signs of understanding their own game how can players have faith in the future of the games health? if after 4.5 years this map is the best they can come up with what are we meant to take away from that? all I can assume is that they don't understand how to make good maps.

Or they understand exactly what they wanted out of that map. It just differs from what many of us want.

in new meat plant is completely survivor sided Comment by Moundshroud March 1, 2021

@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1982923#Comment_1982923
I don't understand why everyone always wants to give people a free pass? maps like these ruin the entire game because if it comes up it is unplayable bad. You can't even "skip" it since you can't disable maps and you can't dc.
They have had 4.5 years to learn about maps and what makes a map good and bad and they churn out this abomination and we are meant to be "oh well I'm sure it will be fixed one day in the future". No you need to hold people to account especially when you're a paying customer. It needs to be fixed soon, i.e. by mid chapter. They need to admit to customers that they messed up, that it's bad design, and that they intend to fix it as soon as possible.

Who said anything about a free pass? Adults know how to give feedback without sounding like spoiled brats. I already gave my feedback on the map, as I'm sure many others have as well. Why does my feedback and yours get different results? :)

in new meat plant is completely survivor sided Comment by Moundshroud March 1, 2021

@Dizzy1096 said:
this is horrendous there's breakable walls everywhere, everytime you hear a gen being worked on you have to stop and break the wall to get in giving the survivors a big heads up. The corridors are too small and claustrophobic so you're chasing scratchmarks more than survivors, and the pallets.....I'd say the pallets dont need any explanation but clearly they do. They are quite possibly the worst thing you've ever done?
Do you actually design maps on the back of napkins? can I get a job at your company? seems you don't need any experience or knowledge to be a map designer?

I will never understand why people think a post like this will get them any traction? Do you open with insulting people in your real life too? Does Gideon need some work? Absolutely. Your social skills could use some too.

in new meat plant is completely survivor sided Comment by Moundshroud March 1, 2021

@Okaythenn said:
Honestly the amount of times waiting in lobby for over 5 mins because killers spawn in and think a group of solo survs are a SWF.
I just don't get it. fine you don't want to play a group of SWF but you don't know if it is before you play, sick of waiting to get into a lobby and then having to wait a extra 5/10 mins because killers keep leaving because they think it could be a SWF. its stupid the game has them but dodging one you think could be might put you in another where it actually is a SWF💆‍♀️
I just find it pointless

I don't dodge a Lobby over a SWF. The only Lobby I'll ditch is if I see a name on my Blacklist, i.e. someone who has used Hacks, Lag Spikes, or been vile with language (hate speech, etc.) in the past. Why would I toss them another game? However, I understand those who do try to dodge the ever-growing numbers of SWF. The solution is simple:

Tell the Killer when they are facing a SWF 3+ in size.
Unlock a 5th Perk for the Killer to help offset the SWF's 5th Perk (Comms).
For 4-Person SWF, add one more required Generator to be powered to open the gates.

In this way, you have balanced the issue without strangling the Solo Que. I suspect many Killers are happy to face SWF if the playing field is leveled. I play against them all the time, but I also rack in a lot of hours and I'm relentlessly competitive. Not everyone feels that way, so I don't blame them for wanting this addressed.

in killers stop leaving just because you think it might be a SWF... Comment by Moundshroud February 28, 2021

@Chicagopimp2019 said:
How do you choose whether to run Ruin or Corrupt Intervention (if you run either perk at all, that is)? I've watched the same streamer run Corrupt one match then switch to Ruin the next without any apparent rhyme or reason.
I've found myself running Corrupt lately just because of the guaranteed benefit but Ruin really delivers if it lasts long enough in a match. Im just curious what rationale y'all use when deciding which is the better perk to run.

I often run both. :)

in Question for Killer Mains - Ruin vs Corrupt Comment by Moundshroud February 28, 2021

@JimboMason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1972017#Comment_1972017
Question,
Is Phantom of the Paradise a good movie? Its been on my bucket list and I just wanna know if I should watch it.

It is a crazy movie that is a blast if you come in with no expectations and immerse and just shoot the framework.

in New Killer Confirmed!! Comment by Moundshroud February 25, 2021

@NateyBoi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1972008#Comment_1972008
holy crap! You seemed to have figured it out. :O

Figured out? No. This is my educated guess based on the limited evidence we have so far. I supported my theory with how I reasoned out my guess. I could still be 100% off and in left field. However, I still think my reasoning is sound.

in Was DBD bought by Magnum Opus? Comment by Moundshroud February 25, 2021

@JediWithASniper said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3L7MMJU5OVAO/image.png
It’s obviously a licensed killer, and the killer reveal is....
Billie Eilish
Yes, I commented this previously, seemed like it needed more air. Kill me.

Sounds like a revamp on the Phantom of the Opera concept, brought in for a modern day. Magnum Opus, while it can be applied to any type of art, is more frequently used for musical/vocal scores. The picture on the Twitter account has half the face hidden in shadow, and the person is dressed like a flamboyant rock star. I wouldn't put it past them to reimagine the Phantom for the modern age. Canadians are, after all, extremely fond of the film Phantom of the Paradise which itself was a reimagining of the Phantom of the Opera for its day.

Imagine what a new killer based on music and sound could do for misdirection. I also imagine the power of a unique music score to covering a lot of a modern Techno-Disco location set in a modern Asian country, combining the strongest elements of their versions of a mad Pop Star. So, no, I don't think that image on the Twitter account is the new Survivor. I think it is clearly the new Killer and half of his face is hidden in shadow on purpose.

in New Killer Confirmed!! Comment by Moundshroud February 25, 2021

@NateyBoi said:
Idk what magnum opus is, and it sounds weird. Did DBD get bought by a company called Magnum Opus?

Sounds like a revamp on the Phantom of the Opera concept, brought in for a modern day. Magnum Opus, while it can be applied to any type of art, is more frequently used for musical/vocal scores. The picture on the Twitter account has half the face hidden in shadow, and the person is dressed like a flamboyant rock star. I wouldn't put it past them to reimagine the Phantom for the modern age. Canadians are, after all, extremely fond of the film Phantom of the Paradise which itself was a reimagining of the Phantom of the Opera for its day.

Imagine what a new killer based on music and sound could do for misdirection. I also imagine the power of a unique music score to covering a lot of a modern Techno-Disco location set in a modern Asian country, combining the strongest elements of their versions of a mad Pop Star. So, no, I don't think that image on the Twitter account is the new Survivor. I think it is clearly the new Killer and half of his face is hidden in shadow on purpose.

in Was DBD bought by Magnum Opus? Comment by Moundshroud February 25, 2021

@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1971071#Comment_1971071
It's not the same. Windows and pallets destroy them because they have to charge up. Hillbilly additionally can be point-blank juked because of bad killer fov.

We will have to agree to disagree because I think it is very much the same. In the hands of a skilled Leatherface or Billy you aren't going to juke anything. There is a learning curve, a point at which those considerations fall away. The same is true of Nurse. A baby Nurse can be run all day, and nobody fears one. In fact, they are about the same as getting an AFK Killer. However, once a Nurse has rounded that curve, they are the hardest Killer to avoid. Billy and Leatherface are very much like that, albeit the curve isn't so obvious. There is no mistaking, however, when you are in match with one.

Myers is different. It doesn't matter how good the Player is because every single Myers must still stalk up to a certain point to trigger the effect. The main factor in how quickly a Myers gets the Infinite Tier-3 off is the quality (good or bad) of the Survivors. In short, it is silly to complain about Myers because it only makes the people doing so look bad. Consider:

Spooky Myers (also known as Jump Scare) is one of the slowest Killer builds in the game. Sure, you can't hide from him, but he is literally the easiest to Loop in all of Dead by Daylight. Once you know the basics, he literally can only beat you by out-thinking you (mind games). Survivors have only themselves to blame for not figuring out quickly what they are facing and making the appropriate adjustments. Even on a favorable map (the smaller, indoor ones) Survivors hold the cards. Whether they choose to play them is on THEM, not Myers.
Mediocre Myers, i.e. Vanity Mirror Myers is terrible. His wall hack is small and he can never get to Tier-3. He was intended as a compromise, but instead seems to be the worst (rather than the best) of both types of Myers. Winning with this Myers (something I've started challenging myself with recently) is literally the hardest match I play. Again, while he is fast enough to be a normal Killer, he has to slow down to use the terrible wall hack, and brings no particular anti-looping abilities to the table. He succeeds or fails entirely on the skill of the Player.
Maniac Myers (any Myers that can hit Tier-3) can't stalk in Tier-3 and thus has a short round (or sometimes long or infinite) of Insta-Down. He vaults faster and has a slightly improved lunge. This is as close as Myers comes to anti-Looping tech. It isn't bad and is a horror on people who rely ONLY on Looping. He is kind of the opposite of Spooky Myers who shuts down evading (hiding). To do so, the maniac is now extremely vulnerable to simply being given the slip. Many Myers Players are so used to having some kind of add-on (there are a lot of them) that temporarily reveal auras, that they don't have the practice in to hunt down Survivors once given the slip or when none are in line of sight. The training wheels Myers provides for "finding" people often hurts them in the long run when they are juiced up at and at their most potent. So again, Survivors suddenly have all sorts of options which play against this build too. Once again, Survivors tend to decide (rather than the Myers) what the outcome will be. Maniac Myers is a build up, and in general, the longer the Tier-3 lasts the longer and more costly it was to build up. This is why many stealthy type prefer Ghostface who seems to be able to ninety-nine nearly everyone in seconds. :)

The variations such as Burger King Myers and such, i.e. the ones using the Tombstone Piece and Tombstone are even more debilitating. They also key in on the Survivors MORE than the Myers Player. Do you see where I'm going with this? There is a reason Myers is not considered top Tier. He takes a tremendous amount of patience and Skill the literal second the Survivors have left the Potato Ranks. He is often considered one of the MOST BALANCED Killers in the game because he consistently lands in the center. All this being said, will he get a rework? Yes. They rework everyone eventually. I expect his rework to be more akin to the one Trapper got than the one Freddy got. They will tweak some minor things and largely leave him alone. After all, why would they break something that has never been shown to be broken?

in Why is unlimited tier 3 Michael still a thing? Comment by Moundshroud February 24, 2021

@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1970911#Comment_1970911
Small comfort considering he's got basically NOED for the rest of the match.

As opposed to Billy and Leatherface who have NOED all match? :)

in Why is unlimited tier 3 Michael still a thing? Comment by Moundshroud February 24, 2021

@Scoted said:
I know I’m gonna sound like a whining survivor and I hate that, but...
Huntress’ hatchet is overpowered and needs a nerf and nobody is talking about the fact Michael has the exact same thing. The only reason people play Michael anymore is to use his stupid add ons and I hate it. You can slap on unlimited tier 3 and the one that increases charge rate and you just get handed a free 4K. I don’t mind scratched mirror and jumps are Myers because that’s actually fun and interesting to play against. Infinite tier 3 is just obnoxious. Michael needs a whole change and that add on needs to be changed.

You do sound a bit... well... let's leave it at what you said. Tier-3 Myers takes work to accomplish unless the Survivors are foolish. As others have pointed out, there are two chainsaw-wielding maniacs that START the game with Insta-Down and have it all match. They don't even need an Add-on. The Huntress just recharges at a locker and has an Add-On that one makes her RANGED attack Insta-Down. Myers is one of those rare Killers who has to work for literally everything. If he gets to his Tier-3, power to him.

in Why is unlimited tier 3 Michael still a thing? Comment by Moundshroud February 24, 2021

I think all the discussion of statistics in this thread misses the forest for the trees. There is such a thing as the "Bell Curve" which is the heart and soul of actual statistical analysis. The DEV do not expect perfect balance to be defined by all games coming down to a draw, i.e. two kills and two escapes. That would be impossible to achieve and deadly boring if you somehow managed it. It would mean the game has become entirely predictable.

What the DEV are looking to accomplish is a Bell Curve which radiates out from two kills and two escapes. That is the best you can do in this kind of PvP game. Individual matches, however, are going to be all over the place. For the sake of argument (and not a personal claim here) let's say that I get 3-4K nearly every game I play. This is true against potatoes and good players alike. That doesn't mean the game isn't balanced. Let's be MORE realistic and talk about Otz. Just because he is capable of inhuman feats of skill in DbD doesn't mean the balance is off. That is simply Otz being Otz; he is that good. My point is for every Otz there are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of Killers who are lucky to get a single kill (some can't even get a hook).

People are always trying to "interpret" statistics, but those doing so are looking too hard and seeing things that aren't there. The most valuable and telling information is visible in the Bell Curve, period.

in Killer Mains and their idea of "Balance" Comment by Moundshroud February 24, 2021

@PodgeNotRodge said:
So I'm just wondering.
If they camp and tunnel after lagging your ass backwards and you get to the point where there are only 2 left with 2 gens left and ones being chased... is it ok to DC to give hatch?
I mean, killer gets what killer gives. Right?
Or no matter what the killer does, your just not allowed, you have to follow rules?

Disconnecting (rather than suicide on the hook) to give someone the hatch is cheating. Do not do this.

in When you get Tunnelers and campers Comment by Moundshroud February 23, 2021

@IronWill said:
What kind of kill rate do you want so you would finally be statisfied? According to some voices here, people seem to want to 4k legit every single match. I mean do you guys realize the othr side of the same coin wants to have fun too?
A kill rate of 100% is NOT balance! Balance would be 50/50 which means killers getting a average of 2k in most matches.

Yes, I want a 4K every game if I can manage it. I suspect every Survivor wants to get out alive, and if they did that would be four escapes every game. I do not recall any Survivors ever caring much about my fun when I play Killer. Likewise, I don't focus on the Killer's fun when I play Survivor. The game doesn't provide fun. You have to bring that. You either enjoy the challenge and rise to it, or you don't. This is a PvP game where the two roles have mutually exclusive goals. So when I'm playing Killer I'm going to try to get you all. When I'm playing a Survivor I'm going to do my best to get my entire team out alive. I don't expect the opposition to give me any quarter or cut me any breaks.

in Killer Mains and their idea of "Balance" Comment by Moundshroud February 23, 2021

@Toblerone007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1965352#Comment_1965352
Ok I'll give the other players a call. Let them know just do bones. Problem solved.

You should. That is really all it takes. While Undying + Ruin was BIG people stopped complaining about NOED. The silence about NOED here was very refreshing. The reason is Totems were getting cleansed because the only Objective Survivors seem to care about is Generators, and because of Undying + Ruin they bothered to do them. I played in one match where all five Totems were cleansed in 2:17, and they also got to Generators to boot.

Personally I think NOED should work as follows:

NOED activates the same as it does now.
Anyone who has not cleansed at least one Totem is exposed until NOED is cleansed.
The exit handles to open the gates are locked down by the Entity for a number of seconds depending on how many Totems are still standing.

Thus people who pull their weight will be less hurt by the Perk but still have a vested interest in trying to kill it. People who did not pull their weight are exposed. This would leave ZERO gray area for anyone about what they SHOULD be doing. But that is just me. I rarely run NOED; I don't have a problem with the Perk or look down my nose at it. I just find that it is a wasted Perk slot for me. I'm not an End Game Killer. My NOED would rarely ever even go off, so I just ended up playing a Perk down.

in How Could NOED Be Balanced? Comment by Moundshroud February 23, 2021

@Quink said:
Wanted to give last survivor hatch cause he had 2 dc and 1 suicide. We both ran around for probably 10 minutes. I know most spawn locations but none of us could find it.
Is this an known issue? I am 100% there was no hatch. Checked all edges of the map all buildings and open spaces. No hatch no sound no nothing.

It is there. That map has a couple of hatch spawns hidden in the underbrush along the extreme perimeter.

in Backwater Swamp - Pale Rose no hatch spawn? Comment by Moundshroud February 23, 2021

@Pig_Is_Pog said:
Title
Now that ds is being balanced should noed receive the same treatment?
Noed is obviously a pretty disagreed topic to talk about but what’s something most people could agree on?
Now before people start typing away saying “just do bones”, don’t. Yes you could say the perk has counterplay for that reason but does that make it fair? no. Now you could also say that the counterplay ds is too just slug but does that make ds fair? no, ds is complete bs. Both ds and noed have counterplay but that doesn’t make them fair.
Nord basically just guarantees the killer a kill for no reason and is that fair? maybe in a balanced perspective but that doesn’t mean the perk is fine in its current condition. Balanced or not, the perk is just straight up unhealthy for the game and needs to be altered in a way where it’s still strong but not bullsh1t and doesn’t just guarantee a free kill for no reason.
What are some ways you people would suggest tweaking it to be more healthy and balanced?

It can be balanced simply by people choosing to do Bones. If they just made NOED base kit, not a Totem would ever be standing by the end of the match. The only reason NOED works is because Survivors refuse to do Bones.

in How Could NOED Be Balanced? Comment by Moundshroud February 23, 2021

@noctis129 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/229254/ive-had-enough-this-needs-to-be-said
I disagree w this post. I don't think the devs should listen to this toxic community.
This community is full of entitled survivors who complain way too much.
I like the changes the devs make. It's weird at first but I get use to it.
But I do agree that the devs should stop changing things nobody asked for.
They should stop nerfing perks. They should buff niche perks nobody uses.
Devs have no control over ppl being all over the place.
Depiping is not the devs fault. I can breathe air and get to red ranks.
Devs are greedy yes. But this is not pay to win. It's pay to look better.
The multiple events the devs have in this game clearly shows they do care.
I am thankful the devs haven't abandon this game after 4-5 years.
Companies like EA and Activision would just pull the plug and let the game die.
I just wished I started dead by daylight earlier.
Also they should stop w the frequent updates. Just too much in a short amount of time.
This is my opinion, and I know ppl get worked up every time I post something. Probably becuz I speak the truth.

I wouldn't go this far. The DEV should (and believe it or not) do listen to us. The problem is there are so many garbage posts, written in a rude way, that it makes it almost impossible for them to sift the gold from the mud. The DEV are people, just like us, and it wears on them to get nothing but bile day in and day out. Just like us, they start to tune it out, stop bothering to read it, or give any weight to it because of the manner in which it is delivered. You will catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. The old saying holds true today.

I think people should give feedback. I happen to agree with the OP on a few things. I just didn't have anything to add to it, so I only addressed thing I disagreed with. I would rather they take more time with an update and get it right. I don't see the point in a ridiculously short play test when they really aren't going to make many changes. Their playtesting should actually start almost six months out, and should involve Players they trust who have agreed not to leak or speak on certain things. Or they shouldn't bother with the public play test at all, because it sets this false expectation. Just because WE said something doesn't mean WE are right. Hell, the Forum-dwellers rarely agree on anything, so I doubt the info they get from us in those short playtests is of any value whatsoever.

I'm a quality over quantity kind of guy. I play the same game you all do, and I would love for there to be fewer bugs and unintended consequences. However, I'm also an adult who understands how a business works. I understand costs and labor. I realize that they push these regular, rushed update because of the cycles. They have to offset each dip, and doing so is only accomplished with an update. A lot of people on this Forum talk about the company like they are some rich Corporate villains like the Captain Planet cartoon in the 90s. That is silly, and they have margins, and costs, and overhead that we don't know (can't know). So I temper my expectations. I give them feedback all the time. I don't get offended if they don't use it.