Mister_Holdout
Mister_Holdout
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- Mister_Holdout
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Comments
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@GannTM said:
Slinger and Hag are too low imo
Slinger should definitely be in S tier.
But Hag I don't know. One thing I'll say about Hag players is that they don't seem to bm people very much.
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If we're talking about killers that I don't like playing well then...
I guess Myers, Plague, Clown, Trickster, Pyramid Head, and Legion
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I can't recall movements where I massively outplayed the killer. I'm sure I have a few times at some point.
Although, once in a blue moon I'll pull off a successful 360 and make the killer miss their swing.
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@QwQw said:
Well, there was one time I looped a Ghostface for all five gens while singing "Heartaches by the Numbers".
Ah, a Fallout: New Vegas fan I see :)
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That seems about right honestly. I've noticed that a lot of my teammates in solo queue are not using DS.
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Slugging is fair game (assuming the killer isn't doing it to be a douche).
Luckily for survivors, they have quite a few counters to slugging. So, I don't really view it as a balance problem.
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You shouldn't let rude survivors stop you from being a nice killer. No one cares what they think.
I consider myself somewhat of a nice killer, and I usually have fun playing killer. Plus, if you approach each match with a nonchalant attitude, you'll learn more from your mistakes.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198187#Comment_2198187
Then you haven't been looking very hard. Otzdarva finally opened his communities eyes to how strong she is. I was so happy when everyone came in a few weeks (months?) back and started asking for Plague advice because they saw what she could do.
And no, tracking perks don't help more than, say, Ruin/Undying. It doesn't matter how good you are, strong perks are strong perks and no perks are banned, so... Nurse is pretty damn easy compared to Blight, Oni, Huntress, Plague, Bubba, Billy, even Hag...
I'll take a look at Otz's channel later and see if I can find anything. Unless of course you'd be willing to link me a video.
I still have doubts about Plague. I've never played against a Plague and thought to myself "wow this killer is really strong". Because I just don't think she has the capacity.
As for Nurse, the really good Nurses use tracking perks because it covers their weakness, i.e. stealthy survivors. Good Nurses always want to be in a chase. You may not have been around then, but back in the day there were a decent number of old school Nurses. The old school Nurses typically used tracking builds because it made Nurse really fun to play. And believe it or not, old school Nurses weren't completely miserable to face like many modern day Nurses.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198169#Comment_2198169
As a former Blight main and someone who is literally talking about how easy she finds Nurse, Plague is really, really hard. Because unlike most killers, she actually can win. She is actually one of the top killers, right there with Oni and Huntress just below Blight. Her only weakness is genrushing, a weakness shared by Nurse, Spirit and Blight.
And seriously, I know what a truly good Nurse can do, and it's completely unnecessary. People so those things because they find her boring AF to play and need something else to do. Why do you think good Nurses don't use slowdown or IF? They find it makes her way too easy.
You're the first person I've seen claim that Plague is a top tier killer. Only thing I'm going to say is that I disagree (because I've seen zero evidence).
Lastly, the reason why good Nurses run tracking perks is because those are the perks that directly help a good Nurse. They aren't using those perks because they are bored.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198148#Comment_2198148
Firstly, Plague isn't easy. If she was, people wouldn't double take when I say I prefer to use her against deathsquads than any other killer. Having a low skill floor doesn't make a killer easy any more than a high skillfloor makes them hard.
Second.... Those teams you mentioned beat god nurses all the time. It's called "competitive DbD", and unless there's some massive limits to perks the survivors almost always win without even breaking a sweat no matter how fantastic the Nurse is. And normal DbD doesn't have perk limitations.
Sorry, but Plague doesn't require as much skill as the top tier killers. I just don't see it.
As for Nurse, you'd be surprised what a truly good Nurse is capable of. If we were having this conversation a few years ago, I could have referred you to Blinky Bill (one of the best Nurse streamers) so you could see firsthand what a really good Nurse looks like.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2197432#Comment_2197432
But... You don't need that at all. Other killers, like Plague, Billy or Huntress, you need to master. Nurse is so ######### nuts that mediocre blink skills and basic map knowledge will have you slaughtering almost everyone you come across without even really thinking about what you are doing. It doesn't take hundreds of hours to reach that point, it takes maybe a dozen. Then... whats left, flick Blinks? Getting slightly more accurate? Going for pointlessly fancy 1-blink hits?
Plague isn't a complicated killer. Billy and Huntress I agree take time to master. So does Nurse.
Everything I told you about Nurse is true. She requires a lot of experience to be genuinely proficient with. Even before her cool down nerf, Nurse has never been an easy killer to play. That's why so few people actually play her well.
The "mediocre blink skills" and "basic map knowledge" you speak of will not cut it against a full team of optimal survivors. Only experience can help you win those matches.
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Easily Hag.
Camping punishes solo queue players the most.
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Nothing wrong with Unbreakable. It's a strong but fair perk.
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Wraith or Leatherface (the Cannibal)
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Hag. The most boring killer to play against.
Spirit is also not fun to play against, but at least I don't have to crouch trying rescue someone off the hook.
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Not a Blight main, but I'm familiar with him.
For builds, I personally recommended: Pop Goes The Weasel, BBQ, Enduring, and Whispers (OR) PGTW, BBQ, Enduring, and Spirit Fury
I like running Whispers because it helps you pressure survivors immediately at the start of a match.
As for counter play, short loops are good safety spots (Blight can counter L & T walls, shack, and jungle gyms). You can also get behind a big obstacle where the Blight can't reach you with rush (this will buy you a few extra seconds). Aside from that, holding W will give you a head start.
However, if a Blight is using that flick bs, then there really isn't much counter play aside from throwing down pallets early.
As for content creators, try Scott Jund. I believe he has a guide.
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I could never gen rush Julie
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Twins main here.
I like the lack of chase music. Makes it easier to hear survivors.
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Claudette mains: *heavy breathing*
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I don't understand, Wraith is still an M1 killer?
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From what I've seen, a lot of killers will just ignore them and go around the map breaking any pallets they missed. Or spamming their power to rack up some extra blood points.
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@RyRapsYT said:
I don't even mind facing nurses, if you run Dead Hard it makes facing her a little easier.
Unfortunately, DH isn't a reliable counter to Nurse anymore. The perk is bugged, which means often times you end up exhausted on the ground.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195848#Comment_2195848
I'm not, actually. That's how I know she's so damn easy. All it takes is basic blinking knowledge and she shreds through just about every team. The same cannot be said for any of the other killers I mentioned.
It's just that people think a sharp learning curve makes a character difficult. Then they ignore what happens when someone is past that initial learning curve.
I don't know which Nurse mains you talked to, but the general consensus from what I've seen is that Nurse is very hard to truly master. A lot of people estimate that it takes hundreds of hours to get really good with Nurse. That's because you have to develop muscle memory for each map. Learn how to adapt on the fly. Learn how to make predictions. etc...etc
These type of skills don't come easy unless you practice A LOT.
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The only time I use bp offerings is if I'm playing killer.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195802#Comment_2195802
My own experience playing Nurse.
Edit: And also playing all of these killers and talking to Nurse mains. But mostly my own experience, the Nurse mains didn't open up to me til they saw me on the forums calling out Nurse.
You must be really good then.
Because I learned Nurse from a forum member on here. That was years ago.
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@MadLordJack said:
I don't find Nurse to be all that different form Spirit because she has no counterplay, you're just banking on the Nurse not being good. People also massively overestimate how much practice it takes to be a good Nurse - give it a couple of hours and you'll be mowing down even the best survivors, so long as you also understand that only bad Nurses try and predict the survivors movement, go for 1-blink hits, and let survivors break LoS to mindgame them.
Playing against a Nurse is just hoping that the Nurse is a potato who doesn't understand how to blink. There's no real difference. It's not that hard to be a good Nurse. And even if you are going against a bad Nurse, chances are your teammates aren't familiar with bad Nurse counterplay and you're still going to lose.
Where are you getting this information from?
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Thank you for the post. I fully agree.
Simply put, Nurse is easier to counter than Spirit.
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Spine Chill is one of the most versatile survivor perks (similar to Iron Will). But I'm not so sure it's the best survivor perk.
Very strong loopers can get by without it.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195543#Comment_2195543
I’m not really talking about counterplay here, every killer has their counters. It just made me laugh that you said playing against Hag was boring but that you play the Twins. The Twins are honestly the definition of boring to play against.
Depends how you play them. I've actually had some pretty fun matches against Twins (unlike Hag).
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The last time I played with anyone was about 1.5 years ago. Maybe longer.
I don't much care for SWF. Ruins the immersion for me.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195507#Comment_2195507
Yeah being slugged for 4 minutes every Twins game before being camped by Victor is definitely not boring or the sign of a poorly designed killer at all. LOL
Using Victor to camp is a waste of his chase potential. Unless you're guarding one of your slugged survivors to do some chasing with Charlotte.
Also, slugging has plenty of counters. The anti-slug perks in this game are quite strong.
Plus, there's this thing called "staying split up", which works really well too.
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@Sup3rCatTree said:
But nothing can truly end tunneling unless you can loop well and prevent it
And even then, you have to hope there are strong nearby tiles for you to use.
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@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195339#Comment_2195339
Twins? I’d pick 100 Hags over playing against one Twins any day of the week. 🤢
Unlike Hag, the Twins can go on the offensive. Victor has some of the highest chase potential in the game.
Actually chasing survivors is much more fun than hoping your traps get triggered.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195472#Comment_2195472
Oh, I am surprised to see that, my friend. I was expecting to stand alone on this one.
I actually never experienced old BT myself, but I've seen countless videos about it. I think it was a very interesting perk, to be honest.
Definitely not alone. A ton of survivors would love to see the old BT return.
I can understand why the devs nerfed it ages ago. The game was much more survivor-sided back then. But now that things have been balanced out more, I wouldn't mind seeing the perk return myself. BT back in the day really was a strong anti-snowball perk.
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@GeneralV said:
I think BT should be reverted back to its original version, which protected both survivors but could only be used once.
I know I shouldn't want this... but I do.
You're not alone. I miss the old BT myself.
With old BT, your entire team could actually escape the basement alive.
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I'm pretty sure the devs are done with exclusive skins. And I can understand that.
However, rewards like blood points, shards, or cells would be most welcomed.
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@QwQw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2195339#Comment_2195339
Nurse is definitely the worst designed killer in the game; because she doesn't play Dead By Daylight, she plays "Nurse Rules Let's Kill All The Survivors In Five Minutes". I say that because she completely ignores every form of defense survivors have. Against a good Nurse, you just die. The only reason I don't think she should be nerfed or reworked is because she's the only killer except Spirit who can deal with the top 1%.
Fun is a subjective term. Some people enjoy playing in a defensive manner, and people enjoy playing against it. Just because you don't doesn't mean Hag is a poorly deigned killer.
If the map has sufficient coverage, you can break LOS while still holding W. Most Nurses won't blink until they have a visual on you. And even then, if there's enough distance between you and the Nurse after the first blink, you can either keep running forward or double back to make the second blink miss.
Nurse doesn't just get a hit every time. Survivors can use tactics to make themselves a slippery target.
As for Hag, I suppose it can be fun play Hag. But a lot of the survivors I've met do not like Hag either. All it takes is one match against a Hag in solo queue to make a player despise her.
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@ShinobuSK said:
90s was too much, 45s is not enough to use for a perk slot. Maybe 60s would be good?
I think 60 seconds is pretty fair.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193529#Comment_2193529
She is most certainly not only good for camping, she can easily apply pressure to the whole team once people starts stepping into her traps. She just happens to be really good at camping as well.
Unfortunately, camping seems to be inevitable with Hag players. They usually trap one section of the map and stay there. Nothing about that is fun whatsoever.
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@QwQw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193529#Comment_2193529
I find it a bit ironic the dude with a Nurse profile picture is calling other killers poorly designed.
Also, you have clearly never seen a good Hag if you think all she is good for is camping.
For starters, I don't play Nurse anymore. I still use her profile picture to pay homage. My favorite killer right now is Twins.
Secondly, Nurse is not as poorly designed as people think. You can indirectly nerf her just by making stealth stronger on certain maps (i.e. adding LOS breakers). The other killers are harder to balance because they have to play around tiles and pallets.
As for Hag, yes she is a bore to play against. The only thing you have to learn about Hag is trap placement and corralling survivors towards your traps. You don't chase survivors in the traditional sense. Once you have an area on lockdown, you just camp it. Nothing about that is fun whatsoever.
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@Yords said:
Well she is a defensive killer.
Which makes her a terribly designed killer. All she is good for is camping.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192409#Comment_2192409
Everything is wrong with it. It's a free loop extension when used for distance, it favors PC players who use macros or have a superior connection (allowing some players to react perfectly to killer hits but leaves others exhausted on the ground), and it's a third health state. If all 4 survivors have it, there's almost no way you can win that match. And if it's so weak as people claim, why do a majority of high level players still run it?
I've been using DH for years now. DH has never been an easy to use perk.
Survivors become exhausted on the ground because the perk is flat out broken. The devs have confirmed this.
Your anger should be directed at map design, not DH. I fully admit that playing against DH on a map full of strong loops is painful. But not every map is like that.
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@TheMadCat said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192885#Comment_2192885
Twelve is the bare minimum we should have. And DS usuable after each hook, not only once, and no timing.
13 hook states. Take it or leave it.
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Don't let the toxic survivors get you down. Most survivors you come across are pretty chill.
No reason to go full sweat mode.
Take it from me. I used to do the same thing with omegablink Nurse. Now I feel bad about it.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2193465#Comment_2193465
Why else would they ring a dinner bell and have a bright glowing sign appear that says "SURVIVORS HERE!" You are too smart a guy, I can tell from your posts, to not recognize what the game is doing there. If the DEV didn't want Killers to return to the hook, they wouldn't have gone out of their way to announce the save. They would have left it just the Icon, perhaps even with a delay. No, they ANNOUNCE It give an audible and visual cue just in case the Killer has gotten turned around so they know EXACTLY where at least two Survivors are located. You and I both know that isn't an accident. It is because rescues are all POSITIVE benefits for Survivors, points, more people to work Generators, etc. The game is making sure that doesn't come without risk. Otherwise, why SHOULD you get any points for unhooking someone if there wasn't going to be risk involved? :)
What you're saying makes sense. But I'm still not convinced the devs want the killer to go out of their way to return to the hook.
More likely, the killer gets a notification that a survivor has been rescued so the killer can return to the hook should they want to. The problem is a lot of killers want to. And it's not hard to see why. Most survivors are solo queue and it's easier to punish solo queue players.
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Hiding in a locker all game is what I usually do.
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Don't dash my hopes and dreams like that 😪
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192493#Comment_2192493
I'm not implying anything; I'm directly stating that the DEV expect and are encouraging Killers to go to that location, i.e. where someone just got pulled off the hook. The DEV expect SURVIVORS to take actions to prevent the Killer from going after the same person. They do not expect the Killer to make that choice against self interest. The very design of the game demonstrates that fact. Consider the following Perk suggestion:
Clandestine
The Survivor is adept and hoisting someone off hooks in a secretive way so as not to alert the Killer of the rescue in progress. The Killer will not receive the audible cue when the rescue transpires and there is a delay on how long it takes before the icon on the screen tells the Killer the person has been unhooked: 3 seconds at Level-1, 5 seconds at Level-2, and 7 seconds at Level-3.
*This is an example of another Perk that would make things harder on the Killer.. OR WOULD IT? It would make it harder for the Killer to return to the hook at the right moment to catch someone there, because they would have longer to vacate the area safely. Or would the existence of this kind of Perk all but ensure that the Killer would NOT leave the hook, intent on making sure he/she secures that Kill or is there when the rescuer arrives? I think Perk above would be great, but it would have to be released at the same time as some OTHER enticement to make sure that waiting at the Hook isn't as profitable as going out to hunt. Do you see my point?
Unintended consequences happen with every change. The goals of the Killers and Survivors are mutually exclusive. The DEV have, through trial and error, discovered several unintended and undesirable consequences to trying to punish Camping and Tunneling. They now follow a different path and attempt to give Killers enticements and Survivors tools. They give us knives and forks and say, "dig into that steak." Right now we are in a new stage of the game's evolution, one brought on by increasing numbers (and efficiency) of SWF. Has Tunneling and Camping increased? Yes, I'd assert in direct correlation of the rise of SWF beyond being niche, a few friends playing together into becoming dominant over Solo. Until that is addressed, Killers are adapting, doing the ONLY thing they can to keep up. It is an unintended consequence of an unintended consequence. I don't disagree with you that something should be done. I just think treating the ACTUAL root cause of the problem is the right way to go. Destroying the agency of Player's in the Killer role wouldn't fix the problem, it would create a host of new ones.
Have the devs actually said they want killers to return to the hook? Please link me a clip of them saying that.
The only statement I've heard the devs make is that they don't want to prohibit camping/tunneling. And they gave a good reason that I agree with. Forbidding camping/tunneling would make the game more boring. Part of the reason people keep playing DbD is because of the unpredictability factor.
In my view, the best way to handle camping/tunneling is by giving survivors more counters for it. Right now, BT and DS are the only direct counters. I'd like to see the devs make some changes to make it easier for solo queue survivors to handle snowballing.
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Prove Thyself + Fast Track + Stake Out. It's almost like having a BNP without the toolbox.
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Playing killer is a ton of fun right now.
Playing survivor? Not so much.