What is the problem with slugging?
It just has it pros and cons compared to hooking.
Pro:
you dont lose a hook state
you can change your location
Cons:
Killer wastes less time
you need to spend time recovering
So killer aside who use slugging to waste 4min after they won, why do you not like slugging?
Comments
Slugging in my opinion is fine when used as a strategy to help win the game. Slugging becomes a problem when the killer decides to leave all 4 survivors on the ground without hooking them to let them bleedout instead of just ending the game. You are literally stalling the game instead of just ending it in order to make the other sides game unfun which in my opinion is toxic.
People don't like slugging because it creates pressure and can end games before they get their "deserved" 3 hook states.
If a team recovers from 2-3 slugged survivors, it's a huge blow to the killer but solos rarely manage to do that so it usually result in a killer win.
Besides that, they have to eat dirt for max 4 minutes doing nothing which they understandably don't like.
The only times I have an issue with slugging (as a survivor) is when the killer is just doing it to be a dick and letting the survivors bleed out for four minutes, and when it's from the very beginning of the game.
Is it effective? Yeah, sure. Just not fun.
Slugging is fair game (assuming the killer isn't doing it to be a douche).
Luckily for survivors, they have quite a few counters to slugging. So, I don't really view it as a balance problem.
The logic in the OP is pretty flawed.
Like, you are not slugged INSTEAD of being on a Hook, you are slugged AND on the Hook. So there is even more time where you do nothing except of holding M1 (or not even that if you finished recovering).
I dont have a problem with slugging, as long as it is done in a reasonable amount.
What @dspaceman20 said. Slugging because there's another survivor nearby is smart, slugging because you could save a generator/totem is smart, slugging because someone is going to try and make a save if you don't deal with them is smart, slugging because you would rather hook a different player and want to bait them out is smart. Slugging because you want to down the entire team before hooking anyone (and will leave the first people on the ground for 3-4 minutes to find them, because you don't actually know where they are), or slugging to watch everyone bleed out, is just pointless dick measuring that guarantees nobody gets any points, yourself included, and is no fun at all.
Why it sucks for survivors?
Just like being facecamped, it's simply not fun. It's really not any more complicated than that. No one likes to just sit there not being able to play the game.
Before anyone jumps on me, I'm not saying it's cheating or toxic (unless, as stated above, the remaining survivors are deliberately left to bleed out just to waste their time). It just isn't fun having no real recourse other than sitting there and hoping that a teammate can help you.
Whenever I slug I don't do it as my main thing or to be a douche I do it because I slug them chase after someone else nearby and then lose track of the person I slugged.
Those are the only times when I slug, is when I see another survivor near me, especially if I know that they have a flashlight and are looking to try and blind me. Or like you said, if I see that they're at a nearby generator or totem, I'll go and either kill them or just scare them off long enough to buy time for me to hook and come back. No matter what though I always come back and start hooking people when I see that the coast is clear. I do like my BP after all lol.
I dont understand what you want to say. If i get slugged and then picked up, i didnt get hooked.
I understand the first three points, but is with point 4 the game not lost anyway? If the team cannot recover from slugging, doesnt that mean that it is not good enough? And yh with the bad matchmaking that happens often.
But isnt it the same like being on a hook?
Not nearly as long though, and no way to try to get free of the situation. When you're slugged you MUST rely on a teammate's help unless you're running specific perks.
I'm a simple man.
I see a survivor I hit a survivor.
If there's blood everywhere after I'm done, well, thats someone elses problem.
I think we can ignore the 4%. In both cases you rely on your teammates almost the same. And when you are slugged you can crawl to your team. I personally prefer being slugged.
That fourth point rolls out in one of 2 ways:
1-If the killer is really competent the game lasts for 2 minutes. This is a major symptom of matchmaking issues especially in red ranks where a team with a collective of a few hundred hours can face a Killer with thousands. Everyone depips, including the killer.
2-The skill level is comparable, but the killer wants to act like a jerk. Imagine you're stuck in a game where they can't quite down all 4 at the same time, but don't hook them up either. You end up rescuing people over and over again or spending a good part of the match on the ground until someone bleeds out. That takes a long time bc the team is picking each other up and pausing the bleeding. Here an example of a stream sniper in Oceanic servers that is just trying his best to make everyone's experience miserable:
https://youtu.be/zlALIvUMKfEI mean, if the Killer is bad, this will be the outcome. Some Killers slug without any sense and go for a long chase afterwards.
However, when you get slugged for a while and then hooked, you have the slugging on top of being on the Hook.
Sure, the 4% is negligible, but I've still unhooked myself a few times. When my game was going to end anyway, that at least gave me a chance. I've also been in a situation where I was slugged and the other remaining survivor was hooked, but he got himself free and saved me. No way it could been the other way around.
Sometimes I prefer being slugged, sure. Just not usually.
*Glares at Mr K while mopping up blood*
Lousy Killers, leaving blood all over those nice maps. 😋
I think that the common consensus is that having all 4 survivors slugged and bleed out is the number 1 thing that is problematic with slugging. With that in mind, I think it should follow that if all survivors are slugged then just like end game collapse the entity sacrifices them then and there. This is somewhat problematic with certian perks but those are small details and can be worked out on a case by case basis.
I state that I play practically only as a survivor! Nothingis wrong if it is strategy! it is wrong and annoying if it is toxic, and this shows immediately! if the survivors all turn around to troll, it's right for them to bleed! even camping can be right if all the generators are gone and you have to defend your only hook! In my opinion, there is no toxic action, but a toxic way of using actions! I hope I have explained!
But that would mean no teammate was near. So you would have waited at the hook instead. But its true that more players come to unhook then to pick up.
Slugging can make a match really long, but arent there only two cases when this happens? 1. the killer could win but wants to annoy the survivor or 2. the killer would lose if he takes the time to hook.
I'm OK with slugging when it's for a short time - someone was nearby where I was downed so killer chases them off or killer thinks I have DS.
I have a problem when it's for an extended amount of time to the point I'm on the ground for the 4 minutes until I bleed out or just before I bleed out when killer finally decides to hook me. More often than not if it's slugging last survivor and staying by until remaining survivor pops me up I am bleeding out because remaining survivor is hiding across the map and the killer is standing over hatch to close it as soon as it opens when I finally die. There are also killers that run slug builds and will down all 4 survivors, they then wait for the survivors to bleed out and if they do hook a survivor it's just before they would've bled out. These situations are where I think survivors should be able to speed up bleed out timer. Either give option to speed up once survivor is at find help OR base it on crows - for every crow the survivor collects it speeds up the bleed out, if survivor chooses to crawl around to prevent crows they get full 4 minute bleed out.
Bad news for you, my friend, but I think you have a forest to clean:
I have absolutely no problem with slugging in most situations. It’s a good tactic and there are counters to it. The only time I hate sluggers is people who do it to grief, or people in matches like one I had earlier, where a Spirit tunnelled one guy out of the match as fast as possible and then proceeded to slug the other three survivors in rotation.
She would slug one guy and chase another, catch them and slug them and then go back and chase one of the other two, and on and on and on like that. It’s just incredibly boring and frustrating because you get locked in this never ending cycle of picking up slugs without the game actually progressing. Against most killers it would be fine but there are some (like Spirit and Twins) who have quick chases and can very easily slug, and it just feels so annoying because they COULD progress the match by hooking but refuse to for whatever reason.
Simple Explanation:
Both sides have their objectives in a match.
When people go and declare tunneling, slugging and camping 'fair and valid tactics' because they help the killer with their objective (sacrifing survivors) and can't therefore be 'unfair' they are overlooking one factor:
In a fair match each party should have an equal chance of fulfilling their objectives.
If you slug, tunnel or camp, you take away the survivors chance to get any of their objectives done, compared to whenyou play fair. Likewise when survivors genrush or hide the whole match through (even if just to wait out the others dying) they hinder the killer doing their objectives
Killers: What's the problem with slugging? (Doing it to grief lasts up to 4 mins and negatively affects up to 4 people.)
Also Killers: Can we force survivors to leave who stick around until the last second of Endgame Countdown just to teabag? (Endgame Countdown lasts 2 minutes and only negatively affects 1 person.)
Umm...It's an asymmetrical game. If all 4 Survivors each was an equal to 1v1 the Killer, then the Killer would never win.
Plus, Killing the Survivor remove shim from the match. That's a Killer's goal. Just as it's the Survivor's goal to not die & escape.
Our goals are predicated on making the other side not complete their goal. If you think winning is not 'playing fair' then PvP games are not for you.
I don't enjoy two minutes games either by gen rush or immense killer pressure. Both are synonyms of poor matchmaking, not displays of skill or enjoyment. Assuming a similar level of skill, slugging is fine as a tactical decision (ex: you down the second-to-last survivor and have clues to the last survivor's position). I also don't like being on the other side and will often hook the 3rd survivor and not care about hatch bc I find tracking stealthy survivors incredibly boring.
Slugging can also be problematic when killers have to do nothing else to win a match. Hooks exist for a reason, not that you need to use them always but the game was not designed for that.
Nothing is really wrong with it other than it feels bad to be on the receiving end of and it's overly effective against solo players (don't even get me started on how stupid Knock Out is). But it's one of the best ways to snowball and build pressure.
The only change that needs to be made is the ability to "give up" and die when downed for over a minute or so. I also think that Infectious Nurse can also be an issue due to her not having a downtime period like Oni.