Mister_Holdout
Mister_Holdout
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- Mister_Holdout
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Comments
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2192427#Comment_2192427
Returning to the hook isn't Tunneling. Killers are in search and destroy mode. The very fact that the Killer had to return to the hook shows they left it in the first place. When someone is unhooked, as I'm sure you know, they get an audible cue telling them someone just unhooked that Survivor. That means the Killer knows it is a HIGH probability that 2+ Survivors are in that area of the map. If they haven't found anyone else yet or have any better clues to location, of course they turn around. It would be insane to expect them not to do so.
Moreover, the very fact that the game is designed to tell the Killer when a Survivor is unhooked should make it abundantly clear what the DEV were going for. If they didn't want the Killer to return to the hook, they wouldn't put in that cue. The Killer is merely going to where they KNOW there are people. Now, if the Survivor who unhooked someone immediately vanishes like a Ninja, leaving only the injured party there for the Killer to find, the outcome is pretty obvious. It is also the direct result of SURVIVOR interactions and choices.
I'm fully aware that returning to the hook is part of the game. I'm not sure if you're trying to imply something here.
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Bad idea. That would make DH a much trashier perk. No thanks.
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Because most survivors want to be rescued?
Also, it's pretty fun to attempt risky saves.
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Because countering a Nurse is easier than countering a Spirit (for the most part).
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191148#Comment_2191148
And thus you prove my point.
You don't need to record matches to know when a killer returns to the hook. I can see it happening clearly with my own eyes.
This isn't just some conclusion I reached prematurely. I've playing for years now. Watching closely how the killer and survivors play.
And from what I've seen, killers do have a tendency to return to the hook.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190679#Comment_2190679
Yes it would. i frames are stupid.
Even with i frames, DH is still a challenging perk to use well. Nothing wrong with it.
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The store (not surprisingly).
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Or you can play Twins. Victor counters every exhaustion perk. Just one of the many perks of playing Twins 😊
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191009#Comment_2191009
I have 2100+ hours on both killer and survivor, it is not nearly as prevalent as you think.
Camping/Tunneling or as I like to call it "snowballing" has been common for years now. The killer hooks a survivor and then tries to punish the hook rescue.
Back in the day, I didn't think much of it because the game was so grossly survivor-sided. But in recent months, I'm starting to view it as a legitimate balance concern.
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@Momentosis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191038#Comment_2191038
Can you stream so we can watch you get camped and tunneled 24/7.
I've considered streaming DbD as a hobby, but I probably will not. I don't play DbD regularly anymore.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191038#Comment_2191038
I used to agree with you. Then I started recording every game I play (in both roles). I started graphing behaviors and confirming whether something was a Camp or an actual Tunnel. The results I got convinced me I was 100% wrong. When I took the advice of Otz (in his video about not getting tilted) my game play started improving. He is the one who suggested recording games not for content but to study what I could do to improve. I founded that the old saying, "we lie best when we lie to ourselves" is very telling when it comes to Dead by Daylight. I was incorrectly identifying things, exaggerating how often they happened, and not taking responsibility for my own part in what took place. Every single one of my friends started doing it too, and they had exactly the same results I did. That is why none of us say "Jack" about Camping, Tunneling, etc. anymore. This forum simply has far too many people whose ego cannot accept that they themselves are responsible for MOST of what happens to them in a match.
I don't need to record my matches. It's easy to tell whether or not the killer returns to the hook.
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@Phasmamain said:
Red dead redemption 2’s ending. First video game to make me cry
That's because Arthur is such a well-written character. He feels like a real person for most people.
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@ Antares2332 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191019#Comment_2191019
Survivors can put keys just before 5 seconds
Forgot about that lol.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2191009#Comment_2191009
I do; I play roughly the same hours in both roles. The simple truth of it is MOST Survivors who complain about being Camped and/or Tunneled are grossly exaggerating how often it happens, and/or identifying it incorrectly. These same Survivors, the most vocal complainers, seem unable and unwilling to take advice on how to deal with the obstacles, are aggressive, rude, and clearly enjoy complaining about the game more than playing it. I wish there was a nice way of putting it, but these are simply people who blame their own failures on other people and/or the game. It is pathetic.
They aren't grossly exaggerating. I play a lot of survivor myself and see it happen all the time.
Killers have gotten used to snowballing off hook rescues. And I can see why. It's pretty effective against solo queue players who have a much harder time coordinating plays.
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Like you said, just dodge the key users if you see them in a lobby. Make their queue times even longer.
As for the chest keys, not much you can do about them. Luckily, those situations are pretty rare.
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Maybe play survivor as much as you do killer and you'll find out how prevalent camping and tunneling is.
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Hag's trap range is about where it should be. Not too big and not too small.
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@ProfoundEnding said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190636#Comment_2190636
I like them but I'm so bad at aiming with Victor on console.
Killer is harder to play on console overall.
That said, Twins seem like a decent killer on console. Try waiting for the survivor to finish their spin before pouncing.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190705#Comment_2190705
Such a bad and flawed argument. No one is complaining about them getting cleansed. The issue is the spawn points themselves and being gone in 20 seconds.
I guess that's why I see so many killers running two to three hex perks at a time.
Still, spawn points have gotten a lot better (especially with the newer maps). Plus, hex perks can be protected with other hex perks.
I will admit survivors spawning near hex totems is bs. That's needs to change.
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Here's an idea: Don't run hex perks and they won't get deactivated by survivors. *Taps head*
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Slugging for the most part is fine. Survivors have plenty of counters against it.
Camping/tunneling/snowballing I do believe are legitimate balance concerns. The devs will need to address those concerns at some point.
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Dead Hard is the only broken exhaustion perk right now.
And even if DH wasn't broken, it still wouldn't need a nerf.
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@ProfoundEnding said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2190039#Comment_2190039
Are they fun even after the nerf?
The nerf didn't kill them but it did make them more irritating to play for no good reason. The five second cooldown is definitely noticeable.
Still, the Twins are relatively fun despite the nerf. Victor's chase potential is still the same.
I recommend giving them a go to find out if you like them. Hopefully, the devs realize the nerf was wrong and reverse it.
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Twins are the most underrated killer in the game right now. I stayed away from them for a while because of the reputation they had. But after giving them a try, I instantly became hooked.
Can't really think of a vice versa.
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I guess Huntress or Billy.
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I'm going to be honest, I dislike Devour Hope. It's one of those perks that really punishes solo queue players (especially the inexperienced players).
I'd rather run perks that are more interesting for the other side.
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@Phasmamain said:
When is Jeff getting a new cosmetic that isn’t a recolour?
I wish they would give him a unique skin. All of his skins fit the same basic theme.
Something novel, like a Roman tunic would be cool.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178354#Comment_2178354
The only inconsistency I can see in Victor is ping-related. That's not counterplay.
Being mindful of where strong loops are is all well and good, but you don't get to choose where the generators spawn and you have very little warning before Victor shows up. Unless you intend to run to the nearest strong tile the second you hear the global sound cue for Victor, you basically just need to hope the gen is already near a strong tile. If not, that's unfortunate, but you still need to do the gen. It's just not feasible for the whole team to hide. Eventually someone will get found and in the meantime no one will have done gens.
How do you propose a solo queue player counter Victor? Let's say the first survivor goes down to Victor somewhere across the map and you're halfway through a gen. Do you leave your gen and beeline for the slug to try to pick them up? Maybe. You decide to go for it. When you arrive, you see that Charlotte is dormant right next to the slug. Your second teammate gets downed as you pick up the first teammate. Charlotte wakes up and beelines for the teammate you just picked up, so you decide to grab the second slug. The first survivor gets downed again just as you approach the second, who you see is right next to the dormant VIctor.
Now let's imagine you didn't go for it instead; there's probably Ruin and leaving now would basically waste 40 seconds of repair time, after all. This time, the second teammate goes down. You finish the gen and start running to the first slug. The third teammate takes a hit from Charlotte. Just as you tap up the first teammate, the third teammate goes down. At this point you're already extremely far behind; all gens that haven't completed will regress to zero and it's going to take some doing to avoid everyone getting slugged by Victor and break the pressure.
Obviously not all situations go like this, but it's pretty typical. My point is that the main counter against Victor is to stay healthy, but in solo queue you can't heal nearly as reliably as in SWF. Against many killers this is fine; just play injured. Not against Victor. The second most of your team is injured and you can't heal up, you're really vulnerable to getting snowballed. There are lots of perk counters to slugging, but they're a best a soft counter to Victor if you're lucky enough to be running them in the first place. At the end of the day you can't really counter him without being able to heal reliably. He usually won't show up when you're at a safe tile and you usually won't see or hear him until he's very close. You also can't track the killer well at all because when Victor's active there's no TR on the map and you have two killers to track... in SWF you can manage a lot more simply because you can often call out where Charlotte or Victor have been left.
Victor is fun for the same reason Deathslinger is fun; you can style on anyone regardless of how good they are provided they're not at an ideal tile when you show up. Fun or not for the killer, it's not fun for the survivor and therefore not good for the game imo. Both sides should be able to have fun.
Again, you make a decent argument for Victor being less stealthy. Your whole point about Victor easily downing survivors who are not in a safe location applies to all the other top tier killers as well. That's what makes them top tier killers.
As for solo queue, once again, they have the ability to counter the Twins. The golden rule of paying survivor is to split up and work on gens. If the survivors do that, then it will be much harder for Victor to slug. And even if people do start getting slugged, the survivors have options. Unbreakable, Soul Guard, and WGLF are all really effective against the Twins. Someone could also hop in a locker to stop the slugging spree (remember Victor can't hook).
One last thing I'll say because our conversation is going no where. I consider myself somewhat of a Twins main. I'm one of the few Twins players who plays them as a slugging killer. My goal is to get everyone injured and then slug them all with Victor. But in experience, this is not always easy to pull off. When I start slugging, I have to make quick decisions about where to strike. Sometimes these predictions are wrong, in which case the survivors are able to recover and I lose pressure. The more spread out the survivors are the more difficult it is to make predictions. Sometimes, I miss a pounce (either because of a bug or a mistake), I get kicked, and now all the pressure is lost.
The point I'm trying make is the Twins are not as consistent as you think. I've been playing them a while, and the Twins don't seem overbearing to me. Their slugging potential is strong, but it's not a sure thing. Maybe once you truly master the Twins, there might be an issue with them, but I haven't seen it yet.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2178060#Comment_2178060
If strong windows or pallets were everywhere all over the map it would be easy to counter Victor. You don't get to choose where you encounter him because of his stealth, though, so you need to hope you a right on top of a strong pallet or window when he shows up. If not, it's basically on him to miss or you're taking a hit. You have much more say in where a chase with Nurse starts. Plus, because of her slow movement speed, you don't necessarily need a pallet or window to counter a Nurse. You can just as easily use something like a rock or a tree; she's forced to blink eventually by her slow speed, and objects like these can get in the way of M1s. Nurse players are also way more prone to error because you're required to make split-second decisions while blinking. Victor can often take his time.
If a second survivor is close enough to Victor to kick him after a successful attack that is a gift-wrapped situation for Charlotte to pressure. One survivor is slugged, the other is probably going to go for the rez, and even a successful rez allows Charlotte to pressure multiple survivors at once with Victor ready to go if needed to down the injured one.
Slugging, especially against a killer like Victor that is very difficult to track until he's right on top of you, is certainly counterable in SWF, but it's substantially more difficult in solo queue. SWFs can rotate to pick up slugs knowing full well if Victor or Charlotte in the area. Solos need to guess the location of two killers, and if they guess wrong they're probably taking an easy hit. It's just a terrible design imo and I don't enjoy playing as or against them.
Like I said, I think the Twins need major changes before they'll be in a good state. Until then I'm fine with discouraging slugging and encouraging hooking as a band-aid.
Again, you're assuming Victor is more consistent than he actually is.
Being mindful of where strong loops are can always be relied on. Hoping that a Nurse player is inexperienced is not a viable strategy. Plus, with Nurse, it's always a mind game. With Victor, you can throw down pallets early to create a road block, jump through a strong window, or hop in a locker to stop his slugging spree.
As for the slugging, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect solo queue players to handle it. Slugging has more practicable counters than camping or tunneling.
If anything, your comment made a decent argument against Victor countering Spine Chill. I could probably go along with that.
Lastly, about the rework. I could maybe support that route. The only reason I don't support it right now is because I like chasing survivors with Victor. It's the most fun aspect of the killer (makes the killer unique too). The devs would have to give them an equally attractive new power. And I don't trust the devs to pull that off.
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Twitch streamers don't bother me. I treat everyone the same.
DbD is just a game after all.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2177958#Comment_2177958
Yes, I am. With Victor, you pretty much need to hope you're next to a couple of strong windows you can chain together or an exceptionally strong pallet you can pre-drop. Detection perks don't work against him, which, when coupled with his short height, high movement speed, and low growl radius, makes stealth very weak against him. Pallets can crush him, but this should basically only happen if Victor hasn't yet located a survivor or makes a misplay; you certainly can't loop him in the traditional sense. If you're healthy you can abduct him once you take a hit and give your team a break for a while, but actually avoiding a hit requires some good luck in nearby tiles when he shows up.
Nurse's fatigue, blink charge time, and low movement speed at least give survivors a chance to break line of sight. Sometimes this isn't enough to avoid a hit, especially if there's not much to work with once you round that corner, but it also often is. Nurse's large TR, blink charging noise, and scream combine to make stealth pretty strong against her. Detection perks of course work well against her as well. The one way she really beats Victor is that pre-dropping an extremely safe pallet won't do much against her. All in all, though, if you're going to drop me into a random spot on a random map I would much prefer to chase against a Nurse, even a good one, than against Victor. There's more you can do against Nurse on a wider variety of tiles than you can do against Victor.
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Three seconds is the standard cooldown for a successful hit, so Victor's previous cooldown was not long. Adding two seconds to the standard cooldown isn't really that big of a deal, but it might encourage you to switch to Charlotte and hook that survivor instead of continuing to slug. The main counterplay to Victor's slugging is "heal up", which is reason number 99 that Twins stomp solo queue. That isn't a good thing.
Personally I think the Twins are a design nightmare, both from a balance perspective and fun perspective, and need a full overhaul. I think Charlotte needs to be stronger, Victor needs more counterplay (e.g. slower movement speed, louder growl radius, longer pounce charge time), both twins need to be seriously discouraged from camping somehow (e.g. preventing switching control while too close to a hook, making their power stronger somehow when Charlotte and Victor are closer together), etc.
Somewhat discouraging Victor from slugging is fine as a band-aid, though. It's not a consequential change in the grand scheme of things and doesn't hurt their strength much but should generally encourage hooks over slugging. I think that's a good thing.
Victor cannot bypass windows and pallets like Nurse can. That alone makes her superior in my view. If Nurse sees a survivor at a reasonably close distance, she can theoretically blink right on top of them. I can somewhat understand where you're coming from, however. Victor for the most part cannot be looped like most killers, which makes him very strong in chases. Plus, he is stealthy. Nevertheless, I still think Nurse is stronger. Victor is not as consistent as you think.
Also, 3 seconds is definitely a long cooldown. That's plenty of time for a survivor to kick Victor.
The main strength of the Twins is their slugging potential. Some some survivors might find that appalling, but I don't. Slugging has practicable counter play.
If the devs wanted to nerf the Twins, they should have went after their camping capabilities.
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It's a complicated issue.
Both sides I think have valid arguments.
Killers don't think it's fair for one survivor to shield another survivor with a perk. And I get that.
But survivors also don't think it's fair for killers to snowball off hook rescues. I can understand that as well.
Personally, I think body blocking should stay (for now anyway). Sometimes both survivors get away. Sometimes they don't. Given the circumstances, I think BT is in an okay spot.
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They somewhat did, yeah.
Putting an artificial cap on Victor's slugging potential was not the way to go.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Well, for starters Nurse doesn't move at 150% speed with only short-range growls to indicate where she is instead of a proper terror radius. There is much less 1v1 counterplay available to Victor than to Nurse. The main difference is just that Victor is a puppy when he's chasing a healthy survivor unless if Charlotte is right there.
His cooldown only applies on successful downs, so he's still just as busted when chasing injured survivors but he can't snowball quite as easily. I'm not sure why people are so bothered by it.
"There is much less 1v1 counterplay available to Victor than to Nurse." Are you saying Victor has less counter play than Nurse? Because that's false.
Also, I can tell you exactly why people hate the Victor change.
For starters, they made the Twins more unfun to play. Almost no one wants to wait five seconds before they can resume full control of their killer again. The three second cooldown was already pretty long.
Secondly, limiting Victor's slugging potential was not warranted. Survivors already already had enough counter play options available to them to mitigate slugging.
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The mystery of BHVR's balancing decisions.
I honestly couldn't tell you.
I think the plan was to make Twins unfun to play, that way players would stop playing them. Which is unfortunate considering the low number of Twins mains 😥
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@IronWill said:
You really complain a lot for a person that claims of himself to be "good at dbd"
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/432347543003725834/841405707144265728/mhm.png
😲😲
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The new BT is fine. Helps counter killers that like to snowball off hook rescues.
If survivors are making stupid plays then that's their problem.
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Once you try out crosshair overlay, you'll never go back.
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Lady Dimitrescu or her daughters would be a-okay in my book 🤩
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This is just one reason why I hate MYC. I've hated it for a long time now. All it does is promote snowballing off the hook (which is boring and unfun).
Luckily, now that BT has been buffed, you can just leave the unhooked person because they have 15 secs of protection. That's about all you can do unfortunately.
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Welcome back friend.
You haven't missed much.
The devs are continuing to update maps. Some of the perks have been buffed.
A killer called the Trickster released a little while ago. He's basically a k-pop star killer (not the strongest imo). The new survivor Yun-Jin Lee has a pretty cool exhaustion perk. In the next month or so, we're getting a Resident Evil chapter.
That's about it really.
Edit: I forgot, a few of the older killers received updates. Some of those updates were buffs and some were nerfs.
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A lot of killers are trash tier against optimal survivors.
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"The Wraith has to be extremely garbage to lose."
I must be garbage then.
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Who cares if Lady Dimitrescu can't fit through door ways.
You won't catch me running away.
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As someone who has over 1000 hrs of experience with both controller and M&K, the answer is yes.
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Probably because many of them don't realize it's not a good idea to chase the strong looper in an area full of pallets and windows.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2159521#Comment_2159521
Id rather have a trapper bag as base kit.
Trapper Bag as base kit I think would be fine.
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2158865#Comment_2158865
This is why the devs should stop listening to all and only killer mains. Killer mains have a strict definition that only facecamping and downing at the hook and picking back up is tunneling. But that is far from the truth. Right now, it is neither an anti-tunnel perk or a decisive strike.
What if the devs combined DS and BT into one perk? That way survivors don't have to use up two perk slots in order to counter camping and tunneling.
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The most important change Trapper needs is for all of his traps to spawn in a central container in the middle of the map. Naturally, he starts the trial with two traps by default.
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@MadLordJack said:
I know this is going to sound like I'm being a douchebag, but genuinely, what rank are you? Most people talking about how awful solo que is are in the purples/reds area of opponents and teammates. I got kicked back to brown ranks twice last year because the depip bug was a thing and found it to be very.... Different.
Edit: I should clarify, I love solo que, but also I'm the kind of person that runs around with No Mither/MoM.
Using No Mither and Mettle of Man together is the most alpha male perk combo I can think of.
I'd be honored to have you on my team.