Madjura
Madjura
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- Madjura
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@FireHazard said:
No it's not bannable, and some of these trap spots have been known by BHVR for years but haven't been changed.
I would like to see an official source confirming that it is not bannable.
To me it seems like this is clearly not intended, and using it intentionally means you are using an exploit.
While you may be right that currently there are no bans being issued for this, that does not mean that it is allowed, but rather that it is in a grey area and that you use it at your own risk.
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@Theoretical_Heart said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/757078#Comment_757078
If the Auric Cells rebate is why they made the pass unbeatable I'd rather they remove them from the pass.
10 dollars is more than fair for what is offered in the pass. I would gladly pay for it. IF and only IF it could actually be beaten by the average player. Which as it stands isn't the case.
What I want is to be able to finish the Rift. I don't want my Auric Cells back if that means making the Rift unfinishable.
The reason you can receive Auric Cells from the battlepass is to make themselves look better: "Look, we care about the players! We don't just want your money!"
Once bought, all rewards should unlock when the battlepass track expires (I believe this is the case when the next one releases). You can progress through the battlepass track and get the cosmetics early, or you can wait until the end and get what you paid for without having to pay even more money to finish it.
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@silverwolf4455 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/755264#Comment_755264
You can't use other items in tier3 so it makes sense you wouldn't be able to use the key as well
This. Seems like a bug to me.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/756825#Comment_756825
Mate I do have the time too complete the battle pass, my problem is that if the battle pass was meant for everyone, how come casual players won't have the same chance and are going to be forced too use money if they want everything? I'm not saying the battle pass has too give a chance too the dude who plays once or twice a week, but too someone who plays 1-2 hours a day every day should have the same chance too get everything as someone like Tru3 or Monto.
They never intended for everyone to be able to finish every battlepass track. If they did there would be no option to buy progress with money. It makes no sense to implement an option to sell something if you don't expect people to buy it.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
I wasn't even aware a survey was up. They usually share a link with us here.
They either forgot or deliberately decided not to share the link because there seem to be more people that dislike the battlepass system on the forums than ingame.
One way to find out which one it is:
@Peanits @not_Queen @Patricia You forgot to share the survey link on the forums.
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@dbizzle said:
i play a survivor and i feel as though the game benefits killers too much ill give a few examples
- downing someone with one shot. they're down to the ground from a singular shot. ruins the fun for a survivor big time, basically just a killers game at that point,
- 2. cant recover on the ground without help. once you're down thats it. if someone else is down too you're finished,
- killer using offerings that overrides survivor offerings. for example my cat tingling sense offering is over ridden all the time and the killer is just there with no warning, if they have an offering that overrides it then its useless to a survivor
- warning music starts waayyy too late now.
- using weapons to kill not hooks. in my opinion this shouldn't be a part of the game, ruins the fun completely and destroys what the game is about , how can you survive if they just kill you on the spot giving no opportunity to be rescued?
- being able to see exactly where someone is on the map . ive had a killer put a survivor on a hook not even close to me and ive been in the basement already in a cupboard yet he comes all the way to the basement and to the exact cupboard, no offering should give a player that much advantage
and those are my examples .
1) It would help if you could describe which instadowns (instadown = falling to the ground from one hit)
2) You can, with Unbreakable (once) and No Mither (unlimited times).
3) I don't know what you mean by this. Can you clarify please?
4) That depends on the killer, some have a lower terror radius, such as Hag, and you can hear them only when they are closer than other killers.
5) Are you talking about moris (the offerings that look like skulls) here or in general, including for example Hex: Devour Hope?
6) You probably didn't go into the locker early enough.
@UlvenDagoth said:
..... there are no words! Ya need to play the game more! See ya and have fun in the Fog!
Please do not make posts if you are not going to contribute to the topic. OP has made an effort to describe things they dislike about the game, you on the other hand made seemingly no effort when creating your post. I find that disrespectful.
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@se05239 said:
You'd think it was a priority but rank rewards have been missing since release.
If I remember correctly there was no rank reset at first, rank rewards wouldn't have made sense in that case (though I may be misremembering that it didn't exist at first, I can't find any news announcing that rank reset was added).
Rank rewards should have been a high priority, long ago.
Over three years into the game and we still lack a proper reason to care about rank.
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@Volfawott said:
Honestly I feel like they're afraid that surge would be too powerful.
It didn't really need the reduction in its regression percentage especially considering it's on a cool down and won't affect already regressing gens so it's not like it could be spammed.
Mind breaker. The only thing I could say is that it helps stealth Killers not be sprint bursted. Aside from that it's not hard to just let go of the gen and walk for 3 seconds before running away.
Cruel limits: is just terrible I could at least find somewhat of use for the current state of mindbreaker. Sometimes you are literally chasing somebody and it's not a smart option to suddenly switch your targets for one gen has already been popped. I guess you could combine this with tinkerer but even then.
it's on a cool down and won't affect already regressing gens so it's not like it could be spammed.
And if you ever get into a situation where you could trigger it repeatedly the survivors are already losing very hard. The cooldown should go, like you said.
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The effects are almost certainly tied to the power. To change the visuals the cosmetics would have to change the power in some way which has massive potential for awful bugs.
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@December_1863 said:
you're just bad at the game, period.
stop blaming it on other players, there is no way to know if you are facing solo or swf teammates, exept getting 4 jeffs with the same cosmetics, for example.
here's my constructive argument: get better at the game.
The only bad thing here is your post. OP asked a question and your post does nothing to address it, or any other post in this thread.
@StarMoral, how do you check for SWF? Do check their friend list on their Steam profile or something else? When you next encounter such a situation please take a screenshot and post it here (with the names censored). As @AltruismOnly said it might be because of the loosened rank restrictions, or it might be a bug. It will be easier to answer your question if you can provide an example.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Sadly I doubt that his Perks can be changed by just changing the numbers.
Vigil should recover Exhaustion while running. The problem is, this has to be weak, otherwise there would be Sprint Bursts which are useable in chase again. And faster recovery while stationary is simply useless.
Regarding Pharmarcy, the Perk actually got nerfed, this is correct. But what to change? Give it a purple Medkit instead? This would be two heals. I mean, chests even faster is not really possible or helpful.
And for Wake Up, really no idea what to do. Exit Gates opening even faster would not be that good I guess. Maybe combine it with something like Hope, but not sure about that.
So, except for Vigil, I dont see any useful Buffs to his Perks.
Oh, and IMO, P3 Quentin looks really cool.
Exhaustion recovery while running is a terrible mechanic and can never come back.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742122#Comment_742122
No, it wouldn't. No one has established anything you mentioned are the reasons people DC as opposed to being petulant children, mad that they lost, knowing they don't face a harsh consequence for doing so.
That solution is as inane as offering them 1100 auric cells if they super duper swear to never do it again.
You don't deal with an exploit by offering carrots to avoid doing so. You punish it to a draconian degree to make an example for those who consider doing the same.
You sort of imply it at the end but I want to emphasize it a bit more: it is important to have a deterrent to discourage people from disconnecting before they get banned. If they get to that point they have already ruined many games.
One way to accomplish that is by amping up the ban times a lot, similar to what @Tucking_Friggered mentions, the alternative is a big lockout from joining another game, e.g. a 30 minute timer to join a game after you disconnect.
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This will cause issues with players getting stuck in each other on reappearing.
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@[Deleted User] said:
A lot people here are 14 and have no idea how business actually works. They want dedicated servers, balance, map reworks, etc., all done faster with money derived from thin air
Denigrating users because of what you perceive their age to be is inappropiate.
There are ways to earn money without employing anti-consumer techniques such as battlepass systems. An example: Behaviour. They managed to grow without such a system off one game, despite developing and releasing a second game during that period of growth.
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@Volfawott said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/751379#Comment_751379
That was my biggest problem with insta heals. You using it on yourself mid chase was annoying enough but you completely resetting my progress when I down a survivor is above aggravating
I can understand your point of view but for me it is the opposite: healing another survivor up requires coordination and therefore I find that less annoying.
What do you think about an instaheal that can only be used on other survivors and heals only one health state (from downed to injured for example), and maybe additionally applies Deep Wounds?
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@Volfawott said:
So you're upset that you now can't completely erase the killer's progress anymore or cheaply stall out a chase with a quick insta heal whilst they're breaking a pallet how will you manage.
This is coming from a console player I play Xbox One if you needed to rely on insta heals to help you win then you probably want a good survivor to begin with
How would you feel about instaheals you can use only on other survivors?
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The longer the time between releases of skins purchasable with shards the more shards people amass. The more shards players have the less likely it becomes that the devs want to release a skin for shards because they make no money off it due to players having so many shards. It's a vicious cycle.
The shards would have been a good substitute currency to finish battlepass tiers, instead of Auric Cells, but then the devs would make slightly less money.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
I get alot of work out of Surge+ Thrilling+ Corrupt+ STBFL !
Surge without Surveillance: don't do this to yourself, they work so well together. I would drop Corrupt Intervention and put in Surveillance instead.
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@Karltastisk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/749696#Comment_749696
yes you are correct i was of by 1 day, But it still got extended and lasted for the same amount of time i mentioned.
The official announcement for the 2019 event:
@Peanits said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/893/0YOV5QDZREJ0.png
We are happy to celebrate the most horrific time of the year, where the stench of rotting Pustula Plants fills the air across the Entity’s realm. Soon, the Withering Blight event will be upon us, and we don’t want you to go unprepared.
Classic Tricks
In addition to spooky campfire decorations, some staples of past Halloween events have returned, including:
- The Will O' Wisp flashlight
- The All Hallows' Eve Lunchbox
- The Pustula Petals offering
You can find these limited time items scattered throughout newly generated Bloodwebs and in chests for the duration of the event. You will keep any leftover items and be able to use them year round, but be warned: Any unused Pustula Petals will stay in your inventory, but will not be useable after the event period.
Following feedback from the Hallowed Blight event last year, Pustula Petals will instead create a pair of event Hooks and Generators for each Offering used. Survivors who burn one of these Offerings will receive bonus Bloodpoints whenever an event Generator is powered, and Killers receive a bonus each time a Survivor is hooked on a special event Hook. If you don’t burn an Offering, you’ll still receive some bonus Bloodpoints, but not as many as those who do.
Brand New Treats
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/472/7S4MYRLAXOOZ.jpg
The Withering Blight event is woven into The Archives (for an overview of what The Archives hold, click here). By completing challenges and progressing through the current Rift, you’ll be rewarded with Putrid Serum. These Putrid Serum can then be exchanged for cosmetics from either the Hallowed Blight or Hallowed Catalyst collections.
Putrid Serum is only available in the free track of The Rift. A total of 60 Putrid Serum are available this year, allowing you to earn up to 6 Hallowed cosmetics (or two full outfits). Putrid Serum will remain in free track for the duration of The Rift. Any unspent Serum will expire two weeks after The Rift closes.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/125/2GNOJBKHL3RT.png
Scary Stories
What’s a Halloween event without a spooky tale? Complete specially marked nodes in the first Tome to unlock new lore continuing from last year’s Hallowed Blight event. Collect all Memory Entries to unlock a special animatic, revealing the next steps in the story. As with any other lore in The Archives, you will be able to collect and complete the story any time, even after The Rift closes.
The Withering Blight event runs from October 22nd - November 1st. Act fast, the Pustula Plants only appear once a year and when they’re gone, they’re gone.
See you in the fog,
The Dead by Daylight team
Which corrobates your original claim that there is less time for this event.
@TheBean said:
@Karltastisk are you sure about it being less time?
Last years got extended because the event was buggy. You were forced to play both sides to earn enough serum, which blew killer queues through the roof.
They only allowed you 3 pieces at first, then up'ed it to 6 because of the public outcry of releasing what 12 pieces and you were only allowed to get 3 max.
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Last years felt so long because of the amount of issues and changes that were done to it while it was running.
See above. @Karltastisk is correct.
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@NMCKE said:
Space Coconut, I have to disagree with this:
2) You earn your money back
No, you have a chance to earn more Auric cells. The money you spent is lost. You can only earn the cells if you complete the pass up to that tier. If you're short, your only option is to purchase tiers for 100 cells each or purchase more cells outright.
You actually save money from buying the premium season pass because not only you regain 1,000 Auric Cells over the course of completing the battle pass, but you also get cosmetics.
Let's say you bought the premium season pass:
Net Gain -1,000 Auric Cells
Then you completed the season pass which gave you all your spent Auric Cells back to you:
Net Gain 0 Auric Cells
The Cosmetics You Earned Through The Season Pass:
Net Gain 10,000 Auric Cells (because that's roughly how much it would cost you if you bought them all individually)
Therefore, if you have the time, I definitely recommend getting the premium, but if you don't, I don't recommend getting it.
Also, I know, I'm a trusted member and you probably think I'm saying this because I have a deal with BHVR. That can't be anymore wrong than it already is because trusted or not, I would be saying the exact same thing here. :)
Getting the Auric Cells back is not supposed to be the default case.
See my post here for why:
@Madjura said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/749590#Comment_749590
They don't expect everyone, or even a majority, to reach the threshold where you earn back the Auric Cells. If that were the case the system could just be free because they won't make money if everyone can reach that point easily.
I do not think your claim holds for the majority of players because of this.
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@Karltastisk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/749662#Comment_749662
Last year started 18 october. And ended 1st of november, But was extended trough the weekend in november because of the queue you mentioned.
Official source with start and end date of the 2018 event: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/26567/the-hallowed-blight-event-changes/p1?new=1
The event will be live from October 19th to November 2nd.
I couldn't immediately find anything regarding an extension, it's possible that is already included in the post I linked above.
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@TragicSolitude said:
Well, the Battle Pass only costs $10, and most cosmetic sets each cost $10... plus charms and earning some/all of your Auric Cells back... if there's not even one full cosmetics set you want in the Battle Pass, then there's also the option to wait 6 months until whatever cosmetics you do want are released in the store...
Dunno, the Battle Pass doesn't seem so bad to me. I'm looking forward to having a new reason to play, 'cause I've gotten most of the achievements I can (the achievement for getting 100 24+ metre hits as Huntress is waaay outta my reach, which has me rather bummed), so I need some new goals to work towards. I'm hoping the Rift/Archives will be fun and not annoying.
There are a lot of other games and non-gaming activities available. Why do you prefer to collect cosmetics in a game you don't want to play (I am making this claim based on you not having a reason to play currently) instead of doing something else?
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@MegaWaffle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/749631#Comment_749631
If this was the case I can see your point as this would allow choice while still offering the full package.
I'd rather we didn't have a Battle Pass system (and I voted "No" in the poll) but its here now...
I like how the devs addressed the problem with people spending unhealthy amounts of time in the game to grind out the battlepass to the maximum by generously letting them finish it by using premium currency that you can't buy in denominations you choose.
Wait no, that was the wrong word. The correct word is "dislike heavily".
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@STREAMERSHATEME said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/749637#Comment_749637
Nope, im on live. Games are dcing and says that im the one who dced.
What is your region?
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It would be nice to have an overview for the status of the dedicated servers, similar to Steam Status: https://steamstat.us/
Should be relatively easy and cheap to set up.
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@MegaWaffle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/749608#Comment_749608
Exactly my point. So for example I play both 50/50 and get to choose between Claudette Skin or a Myers Skin.
Well damn I like both of them and I play both of them, now I have to choose only 1? Sigh..
This is the problem I'm referring to and what I mean when I say 1/2 the cosmetics.
I think the idea is that if you take only survivor cosmetics in the first half for example, all the killer cosmetics will be in the second half. You would still have access to everything but you get to pick which item you want to obtain when.
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@Mookywolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/749601#Comment_749601
i know, im just making sure the information is out there
Everything you said is correct, I just wanted to complement your post.
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This is definitely by design and one of the many reasons why battlepass systems are bad for consumers.
You want a specific item? Well too bad, you can't buy it directly, you have to pay the entire package, including the rubbish you don't want, and then grind it out.
One could split the cost of the battlepass and distribute it over the cosmetics included within it and then sell the cosmetics in the store directly. The total cost of buying all of the cosmetics would then be equal to the cost of the battlepass, so the devs would earn the same amount of money - except they wouldn't, because not everyone wants to use all of the cosmetics, but the way the system is set up you are forced to buy items you don't want because it is the only way to get the stuff you do want.
The system has no advantages for consumers, over other systems.
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@Mookywolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/749574#Comment_749574
meanwhile, pls buff pig
to the original post, you already saw my comment on your youtube vid about how rifts are said to be 70 days long. i'd like to point out something to your second point here. when you buy the 10$ auric cell pack, you get 1,100 cells. assuming you dont have any cells from any previous transactions, and all you have are the 1,100, you have a 100 cell wiggle room, so you dont necessarily have to get all the way to... what was it, tier 68 where the last cells are? im on console so i cant double check. but, i just want to make sure thats known, there is a little bit of wiggle room where you could still get the next pass without spending more money.
They don't expect everyone, or even a majority, to reach the threshold where you earn back the Auric Cells. If that were the case the system could just be free because they won't make money if everyone can reach that point easily.
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7) It keeps the game alive
Wouldn't core balance fixes, overhauls of outdated systems and characters leading to fun and exciting gameplay for both sides keep the game alive too?
I want to add the following to this:
If the only way to keep the game is alive by adding menial, paid grind to the game then the game isn't alive, it's just a grind simulator at that point.
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@Peanits said:
Yes, we did. They were far too powerful and didn't take any planning or skill to use. Any time you got hit, you could use it to get a free health state. You could even use a syringe after the killer downs a survivor to completely negate the entire chase and reset them back to healthy. It was definitely too much.
Did you consider or even test a version where instaheals can only be used on other survivors but never on yourself?
Your second post implies that you, personally at least, think this is still not okay because of SWF and perks like Empathy. While these conditions are sort of easy to achieve you also need to give up on repair time or coordinate for the other survivor to go down near you so you can run off the generator to heal them which might make them balanced.
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Ideally this wouldn't even be an issue if the devs hadn't opted to make it an awful timegated system and had instead made it so that you can buy/unlock the battlepass tracks at any time you want.
If you disagree with this, point out (a) reason(s) why a timegated system is superior over a non-timegated one from a consumer perspective.
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@Peanits said:
It could. We're keeping an eye on things first. The same thing happened with Urban Evasion back in the day, so it's not out of the question. If it looks like the perk is lacking and in need of a little love, we could always take a look at it later on. But if it turns out a lot of people are using it as-is, we don't want to go overboard and make it even better.
I think this is a bad policy when it comes to balancing.
There are perks in the game that have been there for a long time and have never been good (Monstrous Shrine, Slippy Meat which was buffed and is still awful). Instead of making new perks that immediately go on the pile of weak perks you should aim to make perks usable when they come out, not at some unspecified time in the future.
Balance changes have always been slow and I see no reason to believe that the pace is going to increase signifcantly in the future. The more bad perks there are, the less likely it becomes that a certain perk gets buffed because there is only so much time for changes between releases.
I find it highly unlikely that Fixation would break the game's balance if it worked when injured. Survivors still bleed while injured, unless they have No Mither, and still make sounds while injured, unless they run Iron Will. If survivors use multiple perks to support Fixation then they should get a strong synergy. If Fixation somehow became a meta perk it would be very easy to counter with something like Bloodhound, or alternatively even just following the blood normally.
As it is right now I don't think it will see play. Which might cause it to get a buff, but then the development time that is spent on buffing Fixation is not spent on an older perk that has been awful for far longer and needs changes too.
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@Gayce said:
Yeah, Insta-heal are pretty boring to face, but let's be real, 50% of people who insta-heal still die at the end because they weren't that good. Otherwise, I still agree they deserve some sort of nerf, especially the syringe.
The only time I don't have a problem with insta-Heal, is when I see the survivor find one in chest with plunders and Ace in the Hole.. Which is something I rarely see anyways!
For me the problem isn't the strength, it's that it's not fun to play against.
You say the syringe is the one that should be the priority for change. Personally I think the syringe add-on would be fine if it worked only on other survivors, because that actually creates interesting gameplay. Self-instahealing does not create interesting gameplay and should be removed for that reason.
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@Peanits said:
That's simple. Because it's asymmetrical, and most people tend to play one side or the other, not both. It's easy for it to feel like "us vs. them".
I don't like this response.
"As part of the Community Manager team I can say we are aware of this issue and it is something we are working on."
Is something you could have said, instead of this weak "Well there's nothing we can do about this.". To me this issue is clearly one that the Community Management team should be working on, but you make it sound like it's not something you care about.
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@ForgiveMyEngrish said:
People keep bring up bans the problem is that people get "d/c'd from host" all the ######### time and it isn't their fault. I get it in games I'm doing good in, in games I'm doing bad in and games that didn't get to go either way yet therefore I lose rank. I literally can't progress in rank because it happens so often it drops me back. In the end I end up getting my time wasted and other people get a harder game because this game is incredibly unstable.
Sounds more like your internet is garbage.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/686724#Comment_686724
So you don't have any proofs of your ideas? Nothing at all? Not even a couple of videos to teach us?
I do not have videos. I will concede the point that I can not prove the viability. I want to add that I feel it is unfair to expect a single user to prove the strength of a killer on the spot, as the most immediate way I can think of would be a large quantity of videos as there are no killer-specific stats available. That however is one me as I was the one making the claim that Legion is viable.
There is however an indication that supports my argument:
@Almo said:
I've said this before: high DC rate is only one indicator that there's an issue. There were other reasons we did an update. We're still watching data on them, and will make further adjustments if we feel it is necessary.
We're still watching data on them, and will make further adjustments if we feel it is necessary.
This implies that the developers have been monitoring Legion and do not feel an immediate need to make changes but rather only in the future. As the nature of those changes is not known it does not make sense to speculate what is going to be changed exactly.
And please feel free to address the numerous other arguments I have made that you have conveniently ignored to instead go for personal attacks.
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/686350#Comment_686350
Okay. Let me be absolutely crystal clear since you don't seem to get it:
I do not not want old Deep Wounds back. I just want the Feral Frenzy, the thing that makes you run and vault faster then normal, to be buffed. Deep Wounds is the part of the power I don't want ever touched again as it is a bad component of the power and deserved to be nerfed.
You also didn't address a lot of my points, so don't know what you're doing there.
"The way I read it: You think the old power, with Deep Wound damage, would have been fine if the timer didn't tick down while near the killer (or with any other change that removes the exploit)."
Except I didn't say or (to me at least) imply I wanted Deep Wounds to go back to the way it was in any form. I merely wanted the Feral Frenzy to be buffed.
"'Any killer' refers to any killer player. Only Legion with the old power can't be allowed to see blood ever, because then it becomes impossible to escape if the killer has Bloodhound. Same for Predator and Stridor with scratch marks and sounds, respectively.
I am only talking about the old power, where you can reduce the Deep Wound timer with Feral Frenzy attacks."
With the right perks it's near impossible to escape any killer (Trapper, Wraith, Hillbilly, Nurse, etc) with those perks. Legion isn't any different in that sense. Besides, in case you haven't heard, they removed the blood seeing in this current form of Legion while they are in Feral Frenzy and during the fatigue.
And I wasn't talking about the old power. I don't care about Deep Wounds. I care about Feral Frenzy, cause that was when I had the most fun by being a speedy boy.
Except I didn't say or (to me at least) imply I wanted Deep Wounds to go back to the way it was in any form. I merely wanted the Feral Frenzy to be buffed.
This is the exact quote:
Pretty sure everyone agrees that the Deep Wounds exploit was terrible, but that should've been nerfed and just left like that.
"[t]he Deep Wounds exploit [...] should've been nerfed and just left like that."
What do you mean by this if not "The problem with old Deep Wounds was the exploit and when that is removed it can be left like it is"?
You also didn't address a lot of my points, so don't know what you're doing there.
I ignored most of your comments because I am specifically talking about the old version of Feral Frenzy where you can deal damage to the Deep Wound timer. I did so because I was, and still am, under the impression that in your original post, which I have quoted above in this post, you claim that the old power is fine if only the exploit was removed. I am not talking about the current power at all, which means none of the points I ignored are relevant to my arguments.
With the right perks it's near impossible to escape any killer (Trapper, Wraith, Hillbilly, Nurse, etc) with those perks. Legion isn't any different in that sense.
But with the old power, where you can deal damage to the Deep Wounder, it is not nearly impossible, it is literally impossible.
Besides, in case you haven't heard, they removed the blood seeing in this current form of Legion while they are in Feral Frenzy and during the fatigue.
And I have never claimed otherwise. In the quote you referring to I have mentioned twice that I am talking about the old power, the pre-rework Legion. Not the current version where you cannot deal damage to the Deep Wound timer without an add-on, the one that is currently playable in the game.
And I wasn't talking about the old power. I don't care about Deep Wounds. I care about Feral Frenzy, cause that was when I had the most fun by being a speedy boy.
Then let's restart the discussion:
What changes to the current version of Legion, the one playable in the game right now, would you like to see?
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/686591#Comment_686591
I'm not even arguing with this. It just seems to me that you don't play legion.
How am I supposed to discuss with a "He is" or "That is all still there".
@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/686609#Comment_686609
He certainly doesn't play legion, that's all theory.
@Madjura Show us a good amount of red ranks legion games where you use this strategy please
Please do not lower the quality of this discussion. If you have no proper arguments to make or address then kindly stay out of it.
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@NullSp3c said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/686528#Comment_686528
"Current Legion is viable."
Yeah, until purple ranks. When you are about to hit the 3rd survivor, the 1st already mended because he saw you running to the other 2, no big brain needed.
"The original gameplay fantasy is still there. If you like old Legion but don't like current Legion then you don't actually like the Legion gameplay fantasy, you like playing something that has no counterplay."
The original gamplay fantasy is a fast stabbing and agile killer that hits multiple people in a short duration. As you can see there is no fast stabbing or agile involved with the new legion. And he is not effective at hitting multiple survivors tho.
"Current Legion has a unique playstyle: The only killer that can quickly put pressure on multiple survivors at once.."
That just happens when survivors are extremely close to each other, don't know how legion works and are blind/deaf to not hear a terror radius and see him coming.
""Let's completely rework an entire killer because I don't find them fun" is not viable feedback."
You scroll through the forum and you can see people that stopped playing legion or quitted the game because he is very unfun to play, it's not just his opinion. A character MUST be fun to play as primarily, then you see if he is fun to play against. Yes, it's very viable feedback.
Yeah, until purple ranks. When you are about to hit the 3rd survivor, the 1st already mended because he saw you running to the other 2, no big brain needed.
And now you have three wounded survivors instead of three healthy survivors, in a short amount of time.
The original gamplay fantasy is a fast stabbing and agile killer that hits multiple people in a short duration. As you can see there is no fast stabbing or agile involved with the new legion.
That is all still there.
And he is not effective at hitting multiple survivors tho.
He is.
That just happens when survivors are extremely close to each other, don't know how legion works and are blind/deaf to not hear a terror radius and see him coming.
Bigger terror radius means it's easier to find people. The distance you can cover with the current version is the same or even bigger than with the old one. For you to be unable to hit multiple survivors with your power requires all survivors to run in different directions, and while they are doing this they are not on gens which is also good.
You scroll through the forum and you can see people that stopped playing legion or quitted the game because he is very unfun to play, it's not just his opinion. A character MUST be fun to play as primarily, then you see if he is fun to play against.
If the only way those people can have fun is by playing something that makes every other player miserable because of how uninteractive and monotone it is then the game is better off without them. Emphasis on "THE ONLY WAY". I am not talking about people who think old Legion was fun, I am talking about people who can LITERALLY only have fun in the game by playing old Legion and only those people. The old gameplay was not healthy for the game and had to go. Players who can only have fun at the expense of other players are not something any online game needs.
There were also a lot more people saying that Legion is not fun to play against than there are saying that the current version is not fun.
Yes, it's very viable feedback.
No, it's really not. Removing a perfectly fine power from the game and replacing it with something new is a colossal waste of development time. It makes much more sense to keep current Legion and give whatever new power people think they should have to a new killer.
Old Legion had to go because the power was unhealthy for the game. Old Freddy had to go for the same reason. New Legion does not have that problem and replacing the power makes no sense.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/686438#Comment_686438
Eh I agree with your loss of interest, unfortunately the old legion wronged survivors and survivors hold the power in dbd.
One killer, who was easy to beat by gen rushing, dared to xhallenge their looping game and they lobbied until legion was no more.
The only hope is for legion to move away from that type of fame and fly under the radar as an average mid tier killer, then we can have something which won't be lobbied into the pile of trash that we have atm.
Any good legion would be lobbied once again.
Killers opinions do not really count
Eh I agree with your loss of interest, unfortunately the old legion wronged survivors and survivors hold the power in dbd.
Old Legion had no counterplay and was incredibly unfun to play against.
See my post here for what changes would be necessary to make the power fair to play against: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/684976/#Comment_684976
@Warlock_2020 said:
I get that some Legion players legit enjoyed the old version and played it straight up without exploits. That said, Legion has been poor design from the start. The survivor side is already tedious and consists of a lot of M1 holding. Legion, even now, makes that even worse. You hold M1 even more. Add to it the fact that they are most often played as a massive tunneling killer and Legion is an absolute snoozefest on survivor side.
Heck, I have always cringed when I get Legion dailies. Apply deep wounds 4 times, get 4 hooks for chili, and then run laps around the outside of the map. I find Legion to be silly easy to track and kill. At red ranks it changes drastically for Legion mains because you jump considerably in talent on the survivor side.
I think there should be talk of a total rework of Legion's power and make it something fun, unique, and viable. That is where this conversation should move.
To sum up, poor design, rework.
I get that some Legion players legit enjoyed the old version and played it straight up without exploits.
Old Legion with Bloodhound and/or Predator and/or Stridor still had no counterplay even if you did not abuse the Deep Wound timer mechanic.
The survivor side is already tedious and consists of a lot of M1 holding. Legion, even now, makes that even worse. You hold M1 even more.
That's more a problem with the game design in general than with Legion. Generators have always been a boring objective.
Add to it the fact that they are most often played as a massive tunneling killer and Legion is an absolute snoozefest on survivor side.
That's a horrible inefficient playstyle. The problem here is not Legion, but the awful and meaningless rank system.
I think there should be talk of a total rework of Legion's power and make it something fun, unique, and viable. That is where this conversation should move.
- Current Legion is viable.
- The original gameplay fantasy is still there. If you like old Legion but don't like current Legion then you don't actually like the Legion gameplay fantasy, you like playing something that has no counterplay.
- Current Legion has a unique playstyle: The only killer that can quickly put pressure on multiple survivors at once..
- "Let's completely rework an entire killer because I don't find them fun" is not viable feedback.
Old Freddy was unhealthy for the game and had to go completely. Current Legion gameplay is perfectly fine and there is no reason to rework the character again. Whatever power you think would be appropiate for current Legion would be better suited as its own thing on a new killer instead of completely scrapping the current power.
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/685012#Comment_685012
Except I said Feral Frenzy, NOT Deep Wounds. If you paid attention you'll see that I am treating both as different things because they are, I want Feral Frenzy to be good, Deep Wounds shouldn't exist.
"It removes any possibility whatsoever to get away, from any killer of any skill level. That's bad."
So killers in general shouldn't be able to track blood now? Is that what you are suggesting?
"No, my point is that it's not enough to remove that only during the fatigue but after as well. With Bloodhound and Predator you can just follow the trail after the fatigue ends. There is no way to get away from the killer if they have one of those perks. Same with Stridor, though admittedly that one is much weaker for finding survivors after fatigue than the other two."
So basically you want killers to not be able to track blood or scratch marks, because those are tools a killer uses to find survivors. Actually, Legion is possibly the worst one to do so now considering Feral Frenzy blocks scratch marks, muffles noise, and removes blood. And the fatigue is four seconds, enough for a good survivor to hide away behind a rock or building. The main point is, Legion should not be excluded from tracking blood simply because their power can occasionally injure people more then average killers.
"It does not. When the fatigue ends you can see blood and scratch marks."
And why shouldn't it? The Legion becomes a normal killer after the fatigue, so my point still stands, unless you want killers to not be able to see blood or scratch marks, why should Legion be an exception to the rule?
"Bamboozle doesn't work on pallets. Dodging a Feral Frenzy hit is far too difficult to be considered consistent counterplay."
For whatever reason, you can vault faster now with bamboozle on pallets when you couldn't before. Also, it's no more difficult then dodging a normal hit. Sure the lunge is extended but a fail means you can run scott free.
Pretty sure everyone agrees that the Deep Wounds exploit was terrible, but that should've been nerfed and just left like that.
From this post: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/684948/#Comment_684948
The way I read it: You think the old power, with Deep Wound damage, would have been fine if the timer didn't tick down while near the killer (or with any other change that removes the exploit).
So killers in general shouldn't be able to track blood now? Is that what you are suggesting?
"Any killer" refers to any killer player. Only Legion with the old power can't be allowed to see blood ever, because then it becomes impossible to escape if the killer has Bloodhound. Same for Predator and Stridor with scratch marks and sounds, respectively.
I am only talking about the old power, where you can reduce the Deep Wound timer with Feral Frenzy attacks.
@phantasmal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/684976#Comment_684976
The slow vault is required because enables counterplay where you can hide a bit out of sight of the killer and vault back.
The slower vaulting speed is not really what allows that but the fact that Legion flies forward like 16billion miles after vaulting
And there's more to do at loops then just vault back. You can fake the vault back and hope the Legion player swings which they might do since they expect you to try that move. You can also keep going around the loop and after breaking LOS deviate slightly from the standard loop route. Since FF only lasts for 10s and has zero tolerance for mistakes the Legion player really can't afford the luxury to observe you carefully, they have to close the gap asap. If you break los the lack of scratch marks allow you to run away and bank on the Legion player assuming you are still looping that place.
But sometimes even just continuing going around is enough to outlast FF. The slow vaulting speed and the huge forward momentum after vaulting means that any distance he gains on you can easily be nullified with optimal wall hugging.
You are camera locked during the vault. Slower vault means longer camera lock which means survivors have an easier time to get away.
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/684976#Comment_684976
"You're not explicitly mentioning it but I feel like it is implied enough to address, and it also gets brought up a lot: Dealing Deep Wound damage with the Feral Frenzy attack is too unfun and can never come back."
Buddy, I explicitly stated that Deep Wounds should be nerfed and left as it is now. I don't want it back, I never used (the exploit) it unless a survivor was being a [Bad Word]. It can rot for all I care.
"The exploit that you could perform by looking away or walking backwards is not the only issue with the power. Simply run Bloodhound, now no survivor can ever escape from you and you will always down them shortly after your power has recharged twice. Twice because the first and second hit don't require you to recharge."
Well they removed being able to track by blood in Feral Frenzy, however that doesn't actually do anything. A good killer will always find their prey, so in context that really doesn't mean anything.
"Now you could say "Well just remove the bleeding when in Deep Wounds" but then everyone can just simply switch in Predator and accomplish the exact same thing, you can never escape from a Legion player as a survivor."
Except you only start seeing blood and scratch marks after you go through the fatigue, not during. So your point is void here.
"You could remove both the scratch marks and the bleeding while Deep Wounds is active but then you can just run Stridor and if the survivor isn't running Iron Will then there is once again nothing they can do to escape. It's not enough to stop the bleeding and scratch marks while Feral Frenzy is active because once you can move again it's very easy to find the blood trail or the scratch marks and then follow the survivor with Bloodhound or Predator."
That's basically being every single killer in the game. Hell, the Nurse does this but way better and the only thing she is getting is a add on rework.
"To make the old power work the following changes need to implemented:
- survivors don't bleed while Deep Wounds is active
- survivors don't leave scratch marks while Deep Wounds is active
- survivors don't make pain sounds while Deep Wounds is active"
Hilariously, it already does that and it changes nothing.
- Survivors now don't bleed when using your power, yet are still found cause you know, they're still injured when you come out of FF.
- It already did that in the first iteration, point is moot.
- Doesn't stop me from ending FF and listening out for groans if they are still nearby, not to mention the fact FF already muffles your hearing when using it. You would know if you played Legion.
"And at that point you might as well just rework the power like has been done instead of trying to make a badly designed and unfun power work."
What I want is for Feral Frenzy to be fun again, not Deep Wounds. If Feral Frenzy was made fun to use again, I'm pretty sure most Legion Mains would be happy.
"The slow vault is required because enables counterplay where you can hide a bit out of sight of the killer and vault back."
Bamboozle would like to say hi. Also now Legion gets punished for swinging and missing a hit in FF, so there already is counterplay now.
Buddy, I explicitly stated that Deep Wounds should be nerfed and left as it is now. I don't want it back, I never used it unless a survivor was being a [Bad Word]. It can rot for all I care.
From the post you made before the one I quote here:
My suggestion is top revert the Feral Frenzy changes
To me that reads like you want the ability to deal Deep Wound damage back.
Well they removed being able to track by blood in Feral Frenzy, however that doesn't actually do anything. A good killer will always find their prey, so in context that really doesn't mean anything.
It removes any possibility whatsoever to get away, from any killer of any skill level. That's bad.
Except you only start seeing blood and scratch marks after you go through the fatigue, not during. So your point is void here.
No, my point is that it's not enough to remove that only during the fatigue but after as well. With Bloodhound and Predator you can just follow the trail after the fatigue ends. There is no way to get away from the killer if they have one of those perks. Same with Stridor, though admittedly that one is much weaker for finding survivors after fatigue than the other two.
Hilariously, it already does that and it changes nothing.
It does not. When the fatigue ends you can see blood and scratch marks.
Bamboozle would like to say hi. Also now Legion gets punished for swinging and missing a hit in FF, so there already is counterplay now.
Bamboozle doesn't work on pallets. Dodging a Feral Frenzy hit is far too difficult to be considered consistent counterplay.
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@Shad03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/684934#Comment_684934
I'm pretty sure all we really want is for Feral Frenzy to be fun again. Pretty sure everyone agrees that the Deep Wounds exploit was terrible, but that should've been nerfed and just left like that.
But you (the team working on the 'rework') touched Feral Frenzy so that it was no longer fun to use. Remove some of the hard limits (Slower Vaulting, Feels more like you're slightly jogging now instead of being pure speed, and the cooldown is atrocious) and people won't complain as much anymore. Probably. Well, actually no people will still complain, but not as much I would assume.
Please, consider telling this to the team.
You're not explicitly mentioning it but I feel like it is implied enough to address, and it also gets brought up a lot: Dealing Deep Wound damage with the Feral Frenzy attack is too unfun and can never come back.
The exploit that you could perform by looking away or walking backwards is not the only issue with the power. Simply run Bloodhound, now no survivor can ever escape from you and you will always down them shortly after your power has recharged twice. Twice because the first and second hit don't require you to recharge.
Now you could say "Well just remove the bleeding when in Deep Wounds" but then everyone can just simply switch in Predator and accomplish the exact same thing, you can never escape from a Legion player as a survivor.
You could remove both the scratch marks and the bleeding while Deep Wounds is active but then you can just run Stridor and if the survivor isn't running Iron Will then there is once again nothing they can do to escape. It's not enough to stop the bleeding and scratch marks while Feral Frenzy is active because once you can move again it's very easy to find the blood trail or the scratch marks and then follow the survivor with Bloodhound or Predator.
To make the old power work the following changes need to implemented:
- survivors don't bleed while Deep Wounds is active
- survivors don't leave scratch marks while Deep Wounds is active
- survivors don't make pain sounds while Deep Wounds is active
And at that point you might as well just rework the power like has been done instead of trying to make a badly designed and unfun power work.
The slow vault is required because enables counterplay where you can hide a bit out of sight of the killer and vault back.
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@joker7997 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/681848#Comment_681848
We live in a for profit world. If we didn't, you wouldn't have DBD, you'd be living in a mud hut at best, fishing by the river or foraging for berries every day. For profit companies cannot really worry about the 0.1% of people that can't control themselves. If it wasn't video games, theyd be buying crap on Amazon or God knows what. This is why we have alcoholics and drug addicts, but still make alcohol and pain meds, for the majority of people that can responsibly use them. It's not like bhvr is selling cigarettes to little kids lol.
No, this is a horrible argument. I am going to ignore the advantages/disadvantages that battlepass systems have for the players because you focus exclusively on the pros for the developers.
The developers can make money with systems that don't have the downsides that battlepass systems have. The store already exists. The store works. Cosmetics can be put in the store and purchased with money.
For profit companies cannot really worry about the 0.1% of people that can't control themselves.
Yes they definitely can. Behaviour is not going to go bankrupt because they don't implement a system that screws over people with mental health issues. Especially not when it is very easy to implement that system in such a way that there are no issues. See both of my posts:
- https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/681691/#Comment_681691
- https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/681761/#Comment_681761
Tl;dr: All that has to be done is to make the battlepass tracks not limited to certain timeframes and to allow players to switch between them at will.
If it wasn't video games, theyd be buying crap on Amazon or God knows what.
This is a very bad argument.
I never once said that buying the battlepass is the problem. The problem is that people spend more time than they normally would in the game and neglect their real life.
Just because other entities might exploit people does not make it okay to exploit them yourself. There are a lot of phone scammers out there who call elderly people and trick them into buying them gift cards. That does not make it okay for you to do the same thing or break into their homes to steal their money because if you didn't do that, they would give their money to the phone scammers.
This is why we have alcoholics and drug addicts, but still make alcohol and pain meds, for the majority of people that can responsibly use them.
The history of tobacco based products and alcohol is too complex to discuss here because both their history goes very far back. We now know much better what effects they have on the psyche and the body. We know what effects video game addiction or any psychological addiction can have. Instead of trying to fix the problem later, it is much better to not introduce the problem in the first place.
It's not like bhvr is selling cigarettes to little kids lol.
No, but battlepasse systems pressure people, and most notably minors, into neglecting their real life.
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@Volfawott said:
I feel really interested in getting it as long as it has things that I actually want.
One thing that I really want to have is knowledge of what's going to be in all tiers of the battle pass from the beginning.
I don't want to end up buying the battle pass only to get stuff for characters I don't use making a kind of a waste of a purchase.
Randomness in the battlepass hasn't been brought up yet, at least I haven't seen any posts about it, but it does actually kind of make sense.
The battlepass tracks will almost certainly contain old cosmetics as making new ones takes a considerable amount of time and without them it feel too empty. But some people might already have some or all of the old cosmetics that are in. You need to give something to those people as a replacement. You can't just hardcode alternatives because people might have them too. The easiest solution is to just unlock a random, not owned cosmetic for the player in that case. This could also be the default, where the old stuff you can get is chosen from things you don't currently own and only new cosmetics are hardcoded at certain progression steps. People who already own literally everything could just get Auric Cells or something, but there's probably not a lot of people like that.
An implementation of the system like this would be awful, it's basically a horrible amalgamation of a battlepass system, which is already bad, and lootboxes: You get random stuff out of a selection of items, most of which you don't want, with a very low chance of getting something good. The good stuff in this case would be outfits you don't already own but which you like, but if you like them you could already buy them right now. So most likely you personally don't value them at the price they are being sold for, which means overall you get lower value out of the battlepass track even if you get lucky and actually get the random items you want and not random recolors you will never use.
In short: Random items in the battlepass are basically lootboxes, lootboxes are even worse than battlepass systems, bad system if it is implemented like that.
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A problem that I haven't seen discussed in this thread (but in older ones) yet:
Battlepass systems are bad for people suffering from video game addiction and encourage unhealthy play patterns in general.
This is due to the feeling of missing out on things if the system is limited to a specific timeframe. If each battlepass track is available only for 3 months for example (this is just an example, nothing has been confirmed) then the closer the deadline comes the more people are encouraged to spend time on the game. This is due to two reasons:
- you miss out on content that might never come back (cosmetics exclusive to the battlepass)
- you spent money and don't get your money's worth if you don't grind out the battlepass to the max
When I brought this up in the past people have said that it is not the developer's responsibility to care about people's mental health. I disagree heavily with this. A timed battlepass preys on people who are either already suffering from video game addiction or encourages unhealthy play patterns by playing more than they normally would. Some people are also more suspectible to this effect than others due to their personality. I don't have any statistics at hand but I feel like it can universally be accepted that there are some people who care more about having every item/cosmetic in a game than others. These are the kind of people who will then spend more time than they normally would in the game not for recreation, but out of an urge or sense of obligation to have items that they can otherwise never get again.
A timed battlepass where the cosmetics are then put into the store addresses the first point from above, but not the second one. There might be reasons a certain player is unable to progress on the battlepass track, such as unexpectedly having no internet for a few days but this is just ONE example, who is then not only encouraged but rewarded to play more to the point where they neglect their life outside of the game to not have their money wasted.
The solution is very easy:
- battlepasses are not timed in any way, you can always buy them and always complete them at your leisure
A non-timed battlepass system has no disadvantages for any players. Anything else is problematic for the reasons outlined above: encouragement of unhealthy play patterns, preying on people suffering from video game addiction or having an "addiction-prone" personality.
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@xmenfanatic said:
I’m looking froward to getting more cosmetics for a cheaper price.
See my post, especially the example, above.
You can only get cosmetics you don't already have, because duplicates that you can trade away or so don't exist. Therefore you could already buy the old cosmetics that you can get from the battlepass, right now, if you wanted to.
Why do you not buy them? Most likely because you don't think they are worth the price, or you want to wait for the battlepass to get a kind of discount.
You could have access to discounts if the devs implemented a weekly/monthly/quarterly sale. What makes that system better is that you then have more control over what you buy. If you pay 1500 Auric Cells (numbers taken from my example above) to get 1800 Auric Cells worth of cosmetics then you save 300 Auric Cells if, and only if, you like all the cosmetics and would have bought them independently of them being in the battlepass.
Another example (worth refers to the price in the store):
- the battlepass contains a new outfit, that you like, worth 1000 Auric Cells
- it contains old cosmetics, that you like, but feel are not worth the current price so you don't buy them, worth 300 Auric Cells
- it contains old cosmetics, that you don't like, and would not buy ever, worth 500 Auric Cells
- the battlepass costs 1500 Auric Cells
You still get 1800 Auric Cells worth of value. However you only really care about the new outfit and some of the old cosmetics, with a combined value of 1300 Auric Cells. In this case you have to pay 200 Auric Cells extra for the cosmetics you don't like, because it is the only way you can get the new outfit. If the outfit is also sold in the store directly (either immediately or a while after the battlepass launches) then you get no discount: You pay 1000 Auric Cells for the outfit, 300 Auric Cells for the old cosmetics you like.
With a system based on rotating sales you might have to wait until the things you like go on sale, but you have more control over what you spend. With the battlepass there is a decently high chance that there is not actually a discount if you don't want all of the things in but the system is designed in such a way that you believe there is one to make you spend more money.
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Link to the tweet: https://twitter.com/DeadByBHVR/status/1171835134921908225